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HBO's WOODSTOCK 99: PEACE, LOVE, AND RAGE, the first film in the MUSIC BOX series, directed by Garret Price ("Love, Antosha") and executive produced by Bill Simmons (HBO's "Andre The Giant", "Showbiz Kids"), tells the story of Woodstock 99, a three-day music festival promoted to echo unity and counterculture idealism of the original 1969 concert but instead devolved into riots, looting and sexual assaults. The grim outcome earned the event the infamous distinction of "the day the nineties died."

To coincide with the 22nd anniversary of the festival, MUSIC BOX: WOODSTOCK 99: PEACE, LOVE, AND RAGE debuts FRIDAY, JULY 23, (9:00 - 10:50 p.m. ET/PT) on HBO and will be available to stream on HBO Max. The film kicks off MUSIC BOX, a collection of documentary films created by Bill Simmons, debuting in fall of this year.

 

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Ooh, I'm going to have to keep an eye out for this one. I remember this being in the news when it all unfolded, would be very interesting to hear more about the event from those who were there and everything. 

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"Women that are walking around naked are at least partially asking for it." Oh, fuck you, asshole. Go listen to those women's reports and shut your stupid mouth. It was 110 fucking degrees and they were sweaty and covered in human feces and mud and other gross crap, and had awful excuses for places to properly clean themselves as well (seeing those sorry excuses for showers for women had me wondering what the ones who were on their periods did to deal with that-you can definitely tell this was a festival created by men with the complete lack of attention to women's sanitary and privacy needs). I mean, hell, I'm personally a little more conservative in how I tend to dress much of the time, but if I were in that kind of setting? Yeah, I'd have probably shed at least most of my clothes after a while, too. 

And if they were walking around topless or nearly nude just for the hell of it? They had the right to do that. And it sure as damn hell doesn't mean they're "asking for it" in terms of being groped and assaulted, to the point of having bottles shoved up their private areas. I saw plenty of guys walking around shirtless, showing off their butts, and dropping their pants in some of those videos, too, so by that logic, I guess they would've been "asking" to get groped and assaulted by people as well, right? Where's the responsibility from the asshole men who were hopped up on beer and drugs and thinking they could just get all grabby with any woman who crossed their path? And what about the women who were trying to shower and had to deal with creepy guys peeking in at them*? Were they "asking for it", too? Fucking moron.  Kudos to Dexter Holland in that one concert clip and to Jonathan Davis for calling out that kind of shitty behavior. 

So. People trying to raise awareness about gun violence*, sexual assault and harassment being in the news, white people happily spouting the "n-word" and not seeing the problem, and toxic masculinity on full display. Gee, sure am glad to see we've learned so much in the twenty plus years since then! /s Like I said, I very much remember this whole crazy mess being in the news-my dad worked in radio at the time and there'd actually been some talk about him going out there to report on the festival, but it fell through, and after seeing that news, yeah, needless to say, thank God he didn't go.

*Seriously, the whole thing with the candles that had been intended for that vigil for the Columbine students later being used in the fires...that is just the darkest of dark ironies ever. Holy shit. I didn't realize that was a large part of what got those fires going. On a related note, god, that footage of the students running out of Columbine that horrible day will never cease to be haunting. 

I fully agree, though, that the bands weren't to blame for any of the aggressiveness and destruction that happened. They may not have helped the situation, no (RHCP playing "Fire" while stuff is burning nearby, really? Does the phrase "read the room" mean anything to you, guys?), but yeah, the situation was a mess well before any bands stepped on stage, with the ridiculous prices for drinks and the guards not letting people bring in water (but hey, you got drugs? Yeah, you're in! WTF?) and the heat and setting this festival up in a really stupid area and everything. Even if all the bands had been totally well-behaved, there still would've likely been some kind of chaos. 

I also liked the discussion about the generation gap and the issues involved in that as well. Not getting all "OK boomer" or anything like that, but I do think there was a valid point to be made about trying to infuse the spirit of Woodstock on a generation that wasn't around for the original, and the older generation trying to recapture some kind of special, magical moment that just can't be recreated with a younger generation, at least, not in the same way. Especially when you consider that that nostalgia means overlooking and ignoring some of the problems that did plague the original festival. 

Add in the fact that a lot of younger people saw the baby boomer generation "selling out", and seeing proof of that selling out in the way this festival was organized and commercialized, and that was definitely going to cause a lot of issues as well. It did have a very cynical vibe to it, which certainly added to the foul mood. Alongside the other reasons Coachella did pretty well when it first started out-having learned from the mess that was this festival-the fact that it wasn't tied to some attempt to relive past nostalgia likely helped a bit as well. It felt more like something that truly belong to the generation it was targeted towards, instead of someone else's attempt to recapture old glories. 

And even the people who did try and get into the Woodstock spirit, it all just came off so phony, because they were trying to emulate an era that they didn't fully understand, and whose context they couldn't fully appreciate. I mean, hell, I do like a lot of the music that came from the era of the original Woodstock, I probably would've been able to answer some questions about the original, because I grew up with parents who instilled in me an appreciation for rock/music history. And yet that whole time period is still not going to mean the same thing to me that it would mean to my parents' generation, because it all happened about 15 years or so before I was born.

But yeah. Just a total mess from start to finish, from people who were very out of touch with what the younger generations wanted and were interested in, and who were horrible at planning things, and who cared more about profit than keeping people safe and secure and allowing them a chance to have some fun.

Other random thoughts:

-I agree with the comparison of Michael Lang to Willy Wonka, that is eerily spot on. 

-That clip of Kid Rock's comments about Lewinsky and Clinton really makes his current behavior not at all surprising. And that's all the more I'll say about that.

-Schur really came off like a total dick in those press conferences, didn't he? Holy hell, dude, learn to take some actual criticism. 

-That story about David, the guy who went to see Metallica, was so horribly sad. I was expecting that kind of reveal given the way his story was told with the journal entries and all, but it still didn't make learning what happened any less of a gut punch. 

-I liked the observations about how blending rock and rap together should've brought out the best of both genres, but instead, some people took the worst elements from them and highlighted them. Indeed, this is one of many reasons I never got into the whole nu-metal scene. There might've been the occasional song I liked, but for the most part, I just thought that music was obnoxious and got a little old after a while. 

-I definitely remember the constant battle on TRL back in the day between the teen pop fans and the people who liked rock music. And I was getting annoyed at the guys making a big to do about how much they hated the Backstreet Boys. I get being young and going through the whole "too cool for school" attitude where you hate all the popular things and whatnot-I went through that phase, too. 

But looking back at that attitude now, as an adult, you realize just how obnoxious it is. Wow, you hate a popular act. What a brave soul you are making such a declaration, you are totally the first person ever to say such a thing! *Rolls eyes* To say nothing of the fact that a) yeah, of course those kinds of guys probably wouldn't like that music-guess what? It wasn't being made for you! And b) God forbid there's someone out there who might actually understand that it is possible to...gasp...like both types of music!

It's just so stupid and childish. If someone's music isn't your thing, fine. You don't need to make a big production about how much you hate it, it doesn't make you special or cool to rag on something that so many others do like. 

Fascinating documentary. Horrifying in a lot of ways, but a good dive into a crazy time. Seems like there's some other good documentaries coming up in this series in the fall, so looking forward to watching some of those, too (I'm especially interested in the one on Alanis and her Jagged Little Pill album). 

Edited by Annber03
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While the original Woodstock was known for peace, love and harmony...Woodstock '99 will be remembered for fire, destruction and anarchy. WTG idiots!

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On 7/24/2021 at 12:02 AM, Annber03 said:

"Women that are walking around naked are at least partially asking for it." Oh, fuck you, asshole. Go listen to those women's reports and shut your stupid mouth. It was 110 fucking degrees and they were sweaty and covered in human feces and mud and other gross crap, and had awful excuses for places to properly clean themselves as well (seeing those sorry excuses for showers for women had me wondering what the ones who were on their periods did to deal with that-you can definitely tell this was a festival created by men with the complete lack of attention to women's sanitary and privacy needs). I mean, hell, I'm personally a little more conservative in how I tend to dress much of the time, but if I were in that kind of setting? Yeah, I'd have probably shed at least most of my clothes after a while, too. 

And if they were walking around topless or nearly nude just for the hell of it? They had the right to do that. And it sure as damn hell doesn't mean they're "asking for it" in terms of being groped and assaulted, to the point of having bottles shoved up their private areas. I saw plenty of guys walking around shirtless, showing off their butts, and dropping their pants in some of those videos, too, so by that logic, I guess they would've been "asking" to get groped and assaulted by people as well, right? Where's the responsibility from the asshole men who were hopped up on beer and drugs and thinking they could just get all grabby with any woman who crossed their path? And what about the women who were trying to shower and had to deal with creepy guys peeking in at them*? Were they "asking for it", too? Fucking moron.  Kudos to Dexter Holland in that one concert clip and to Jonathan Davis for calling out that kind of shitty behavior. 

Fuck that guy.  I couldn't believe he even went there.  I hope he doesn't have a daughter who heard that.   Total asshole.

He and Lang clearly can't take any fucking responsibility for anything that went wrong.  Offspring said they had better concerts and experiences at a venue that Hitler built.  Now that's messed up.  I also found it absurd that they are blaming acts that they booked for not settling the crowds down.  Really?  It's a fucking rock band, Fred Durst was/still is a dick, sure, but it's not on him.  They knew his act and what he was about. 

Hearing that the reason they chose the base was because it was surrounded by a fence was the first indication that it would turn into a shit show.  They didn't want to lose any money and did the bare minimum when it came to keeping those kids hydrated and safe.  Why couldn't they bring in water trucks or give bottles away for free when it was clear it was going south.  For the guy to say that there was plenty of water to go around was clearly laughable.   

I was the age that was targeted for both Woodstock 94 and 99,  but attending an event in the middle of summer with that many people doesn't look fun to me at any age.  And a having to walk a mile from one stage to the other?   Oh hell no.

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10 minutes ago, KLJ said:

Fred Durst was/still is a dick, sure, but it's not on him.  They knew his act and what he was about. 

That's a great point, too. Yeah, seriously, you bring all these rock acts that are loud and edgy and aggressive in to perform for a bunch of young people who are drunk and high, and you know your audience is largely going to be young men full of testosterone...you don't get to sit there later and go, "Gosh, I hadn't expected that to happen!"

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Hearing that the reason they chose the base was because it was surrounded by a fence was the first indication that it would turn into a shit show.  They didn't want to lose any money and did the bare minimum when it came to keeping those kids hydrated and safe.  Why couldn't they bring in water trucks or give bottles away for free when it was clear it was going south.  For the guy to say that there was plenty of water to go around was clearly laughable.   

Exactly. Again, you don't plan a big festival where you know there'll be drinking and drugs and young people being wild and rebellious and then tell them, "Okay, but you can't get past this fence." Yeah, 'cause they're totally going to listen to a bunch of people they would probably dismiss as "old farts". Sure.

In regards to the people who kept mocking Kurt Loder and other reporters over how dramatic their news reports about the weekend were, I wonder if they were still laughing after they saw the fires on Sunday night, or heard about the guy who died and the numerous assaults and rapes. Not so funny anymore, huh, people? 

I'm with you that none of that sounds appealing to me, too. I love music, and if I can go to a festival, sure, I will...but yeah, it's got to be planned a LOT better than this shitshow was for me to even consider going. 

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21 hours ago, KLJ said:

Fuck that guy.  I couldn't believe he even went there.  I hope he doesn't have a daughter who heard that.   Total asshole.

He and Lang clearly can't take any fucking responsibility for anything that went wrong.  Offspring said they had better concerts and experiences at a venue that Hitler built.  Now that's messed up.  I also found it absurd that they are blaming acts that they booked for not settling the crowds down.  Really?  It's a fucking rock band, Fred Durst was/still is a dick, sure, but it's not on him.  They knew his act and what he was about. 

Hearing that the reason they chose the base was because it was surrounded by a fence was the first indication that it would turn into a shit show.  They didn't want to lose any money and did the bare minimum when it came to keeping those kids hydrated and safe.  Why couldn't they bring in water trucks or give bottles away for free when it was clear it was going south.  For the guy to say that there was plenty of water to go around was clearly laughable.   

I was the age that was targeted for both Woodstock 94 and 99,  but attending an event in the middle of summer with that many people doesn't look fun to me at any age.  And a having to walk a mile from one stage to the other?   Oh hell no.

I went to this when I was 20. Thankfully I missed the worst of the destruction by leaving on Sunday morning to beat the traffic (HAHAHAHA, it was us and 20,000 other people with the same idea parked on those NY state roads for hours. And with no cell phones to let anyone know where I was, the news of the fires and riots reached home long before I did. 

It was definitely an experience and I had a good time, but watching all of the worst of it back to back, I can see where it would make you wonder why anyone would ever want to go to something like that. I was saved by the combination of having attended with actual adults in our group, plus my bf and some others my age who weren't particularly big on hard drinking or partying. I remember my college friends wanting to go and thinking I'd have more fun going with them, but looking back, I'm so happy I didn't, I would have run into far more trouble with no one there to stop me from doing dumb things. In fact, I had wanted to go to the set that included Limp Bizkit and Korn, but the bf wouldn't let me and good thing, because he and the other guys he went with ended up having to scale the walls and pull themselves out of that mini-riot. I would have freaked the hell out. It was bad enough at the open air concerts, like Kid Rock (who I did not have any interest in seeing, but I was way up front and wanted to see some of the later acts from that close), the crowd surfing and mosh pits were really annoying and the crowd surfers kicked everyone in the heads on their way by.

That guy doing the press conferences and victim blaming is a poster boy for the inevitable problems. Focused on the wrong things, unable to pivot when things went off the rails, and definitely unable to accept any responsibility. 

As for the women, I was really bothered by the lack of blurring in this documentary. I know the footage exists and has been out there for many years, but HBO Max is a much bigger venue and wider viewership and all those girls who were teenagers or young 20-somethings feeling free in this enclosed little bubble of a world (which is truly how it felt, because again, no cell phones or news of the outside world for days) who were okay with being topless in that setting may feel differently about it as 40-something women with kids of their own and it being on a streaming platform to be viewed by millions. It's not illegal or anything since they knew they were being filmed, but I doubt anyone envisioned it coming back in such a public way 20 years later.

Overall, while I did enjoy myself at the time, I know I was one of the lucky ones and even with my relative good fortune, I still experienced or witnessed a lot of the worst, like the show your tits guys, who were EVERYWHERE and would corner you if you were walking without other men (which I rarely was), the disgusting bathrooms (never bothered to try the shower area), the vastness of the place and getting lost, and the exorbitant price of stuff. But again, going with actual adults saved me because they packed a ton of food and water, which we had no trouble getting through the gates. 

Also, on Sunday morning, people started setting their tents on fire because they didn't feel like packing up their shit. So those were the only fires I saw, but it was alarming enough that I was starting to get a sense that it was time to go. So I did get to see a lot of bands I liked, some I didn't, got a horrific sunburn from spending a whole day out in the crowds in front of the stage, and got to meet Carson Daly in a random gas station in upstate NY as he was fleeing the festival early (was interesting to see the background of the MTV folks being told to get the hell away from the scene). He was super nice and took a pic with us, but I no longer speak with the people I went with so I've never seen it.

Watching this documentary was definitely not the nostalgic trip I thought it would be, even knowing all the awful stuff that happened, I thought seeing the less inflammatory footage might trigger some fun memories, but I mostly just felt disturbed by the whole thing. 

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2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I went to this when I was 20. Thankfully I missed the worst of the destruction by leaving on Sunday morning to beat the traffic (HAHAHAHA, it was us and 20,000 other people with the same idea parked on those NY state roads for hours. And with no cell phones to let anyone know where I was, the news of the fires and riots reached home long before I did. 

...oh, lord. As if the weekend wasn't nightmarish enough. Seems a very appropriate ending to all the craziness, though. 

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As for the women, I was really bothered by the lack of blurring in this documentary. I know the footage exists and has been out there for many years, but HBO Max is a much bigger venue and wider viewership and all those girls who were teenagers or young 20-somethings feeling free in this enclosed little bubble of a world (which is truly how it felt, because again, no cell phones or news of the outside world for days) who were okay with being topless in that setting may feel differently about it as 40-something women with kids of their own and it being on a streaming platform to be viewed by millions. It's not illegal or anything since they knew they were being filmed, but I doubt anyone envisioned it coming back in such a public way 20 years later.

This is a really good point. I guess we can hope that the people involved tried to track down as many of these people as they could or found some other way to ensure that they gave their okay on this stuff being made public? 

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Also, on Sunday morning, people started setting their tents on fire because they didn't feel like packing up their shit. So those were the only fires I saw, but it was alarming enough that I was starting to get a sense that it was time to go.

o__O

Well. That's certainly...a reason. Definitely would've had the same thought as you in that moment, and I'm glad you were able to get out when you did. It's neat to hear from someone who was there-I'm sorry you had to deal with and witness some of the awful stuff that happened there, but I am also glad that you went with a more mature group of people, that you still did get to have a little bit of fun along the way, and that you got out safely at the end of it all. Thanks for sharing your story about your experience. 

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3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

 

Watching this documentary was definitely not the nostalgic trip I thought it would be, even knowing all the awful stuff that happened, I thought seeing the less inflammatory footage might trigger some fun memories, but I mostly just felt disturbed by the whole thing. 

So cool & interesting to hear of a first-hand experience!  I’m glad yours was mostly good!  Thank you so much for sharing!

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My takeaways from the Woodstock 99 documentary. 

The promoters' delusions about their culpability in what happened is pretty mind boggling, and watching the one guy try to blame the naked women for being assaulted is infuriating and absurd. 

I enjoyed the overall rundown of the festival so to speak, but the so called profound  comments about why it happened and what it means mostly just made me roll my eyes.

Lastly, and this can not be said enough, Moby, please shut the fuck up.

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6 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

all those girls who were teenagers or young 20-somethings feeling free in this enclosed little bubble of a world (which is truly how it felt, because again, no cell phones or news of the outside world for days) who were okay with being topless in that setting may feel differently about it as 40-something women with kids of their own and it being on a streaming platform to be viewed by millions. It's not illegal or anything since they knew they were being filmed, but I doubt anyone envisioned it coming back in such a public way 20 years later.

Bubble or not, if you see a camera in a public venue and choose to remain naked, you have to deal with your photo reaching the media for the rest of your life. Even if you posed professionally as many young models often do. Vanessa Williams learned that the hard way.

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7 hours ago, MsTree said:

Bubble or not, if you see a camera in a public venue and choose to remain naked, you have to deal with your photo reaching the media for the rest of your life. Even if you posed professionally as many young models often do. Vanessa Williams learned that the hard way.

I know this, but it still felt needlessly exploitative to include it unblurred, particularly when the footage was being used to underscore the stories of sexual assault and toxic masculinity. There was a choice that could have been made and given the tenor of the documentary and its clarity on all that was wrong about the whole scene, I felt that making a different choice would have supported their commentary a bit better. 

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15 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I know this, but it still felt needlessly exploitative to include it unblurred, particularly when the footage was being used to underscore the stories of sexual assault and toxic masculinity. There was a choice that could have been made and given the tenor of the documentary and its clarity on all that was wrong about the whole scene, I felt that making a different choice would have supported their commentary a bit better. 

Agree to disagree. If for no other reason than the entire premise of '99 was to emulate the original...where being topless was the norm. IMO, a true documentary (which is what this was supposed to be) does not warrant ANY censorship.

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I put this one before bed and stayed up to watch the whole thing. It was very well done, it really held my interest.

I was around the age of many of the attendees in 99 and the music is some I listened to. It was kind of funny how they joked about people who listen to the bands like Limo Bizkit wouldn’t then do the Rave thing but I totally would have at the time. I also would have listened to Jewel and Alannis but Kid Rock too, as I have diverse music interests. Never liked Korn though but the commentary by the Korn member was very good and insightful. It added a lot to the show. 

It was weird to see the bands old like me now lol.

The water situation was insane. Even today I think $4 for a 500ml water bottle is insane.

The place was crazy dirty. I have never done the music festivals in my province as there is no way I could handle their mess even though they are no where as near messy as this was.

The comment about the topless girls being partially responsible for being groped is disgusting. Sure people will look at their tits but touching them - no. The guy was smirking when he said, good thing his Woodstock 50 fell through.

Becoming of age in the early 90s it was an angsty time. We were told we would never have the things our parents had, we wouldn’t have the same level of personal wealth or opportunities. I spent my formative years anxious about how I would support myself in the future and now my mid 40s self looks back and says “relax” life isn’t that hard. So even though I am a woman, I do relate to some of the undercurrent of “anger” at the time. 

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4 hours ago, fountain said:

It was kind of funny how they joked about people who listen to the bands like Limo Bizkit wouldn’t then do the Rave thing but I totally would have at the time. I also would have listened to Jewel and Alannis but Kid Rock too, as I have diverse music interests.

Ha, I thought the same thing. I'm not a raver, myself, but yeah, I would've been one of those few who probably would've bounced around to a variety of acts, too :). And even if I didn't participate in the rave, I still might've dropped in just to see what all was going on. 

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On 7/28/2021 at 8:34 AM, fountain said:

The water situation was insane. Even today I think $4 for a 500ml water bottle is insane.

I live in New York City.  Even on the street in a tourist area, a bottle of water isn't $4 in 2021.

The documentary was utterly riveting.  I appreciated Maureen Callahan and Dave Holmes the most, as they both seemed to have the clearest view on things.  

I would have loved if Fred Durst had consented to be involved.  Not that I would expect him to have much to say, just that I'd be curious to see what kind of bullshit he'd have come up with to dodge any culpability.  The Chili Peppers have at least acknowledged that they fucked up.

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30 minutes in so far and it’s quite interesting. I forgot about Woodstock 94 and I knew 69 had its issues but not that many. Lang just can’t seem to put on a Woodstock festival without losing money or having a lot of issues. His Woodstock 50 crashed and burned before it could happen

And there’s never an excuse for molesting woman even if she’s topless, or making excuses for women getting molested. Remember original Woodstock had a lot of nudity, both male and female

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On 7/28/2021 at 1:10 PM, Annber03 said:

Ha, I thought the same thing. I'm not a raver, myself, but yeah, I would've been one of those few who probably would've bounced around to a variety of acts, too :). And even if I didn't participate in the rave, I still might've dropped in just to see what all was going on. 

I dropped into one, worst part of my experience. It was packed and while trying to squeeze our way in through the jammed entrance, some complete stranger started sucking on the back of my neck while I was stuck in one place. I noped out right there and left by myself because I couldn't even get through the crowd enough to find the people I went with. That started a 2-hour odyssey of trying to find "Country Road" where our tents were set up. It was not well mapped out and there weren't a ton of markers to go by, so it was a rather frustrating and scary experience to be alone after dark with the roving bands of juiced up guys and not a whole of options to ask for help (as you can see in the documentary, the "security" detail was not exactly confidence-inspiring). 

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I live in New York City.  Even on the street in a tourist area, a bottle of water isn't $4 in 2021.

Hotels in Vegas charge $4 for a bottle of water in their little shops, but you can walk out on the casino floor and get water bottles for free or walk down the strip and get a case of water from a store. Charging $4 a bottle when people are literally fenced in, they weren't supposed to be allowed to bring any of their own, AND you have extreme summer heat on an all-asphalt surface? Just a recipe for dehydration and disaster. 

And I think the same jerk who blamed the women for the sexual assaults made some kind of asinine statement about cheaper or free water being available through the medical tent or something. I believe it was in one of those press conferences. Well, that information was not made available, obviously, because they wanted to collect the $4 in water sales. So acting like it was so obvious that there was other options was horseshit.

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To hear promotor John Schur actually say that the topless women were partly at fault for getting molested is just shocking and aggravating. Of course, this yahoo also wouldn’t take some responsibility for what transpired and blamed the media for saying unfair things, which is all pretty telling. I agree with the person who couldn’t believe people stayed through Sunday after all the previous issues

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On 7/27/2021 at 12:45 AM, Slade347 said:

Lastly, and this can not be said enough, Moby, please shut the fuck up.

I randomly was sitting next to him on a flight back from London several years ago and the business class seats were designed so you had to climb over the other person every time you wanted to get up or back to your seat.    So for me it's Moby sit the fuck down :-)

I haven't watched this doc yet but now I'm scared to. It's one thing to kind of know it happened but another thing to see it happen.  I love music but I hate crowds and the heat so it's unlikely I'd ever go to something like this but people should be able to without this kind of complete BS.  Makes that cheese sandwich and Frye look great by comparison! 

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