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S11.E08: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Leather Pants

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I swear, if Erika calls her new house “small” one more freaking time…

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33 minutes ago, ladle said:

I swear, if Erika calls her new house “small” one more freaking time…

I know - I can't imagine that she and Tom actually used more than 2000 square feet of the house they shared.  

 

I wish that Crystal and Sutton could go and get drunk together and just talk this out.  They both need to lay down their swords and listen to each other.  Away from the cameras and BH Bitches.  

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As strange as it may sound, of all the things that happened this episode, I am aghast at Harry and Rinna paying $310 for what looked like 3 small bags of groceries.  What did they even buy? Small pumpkins/squash, mushrooms, soda, artisanal pasta, beef, cheese. There was very little in that little baby cart. 

Kathy's house is what dreams are made of.

On 7/8/2021 at 9:08 AM, byrd said:

I don't believe Cathy is acting. Lol !!!!  she's just that dense. 

If what they say about her mom, big Kathy, is even 10% right, I don't believe for a minute that Kathy Jr., is dense. She had me up until the whole 'hunky dory' thing. 

I hated Erika's old house, which was basically Platinum Shady Pines for the ultra rich, so the new $10k rental is a vast improvement. 

Edited by islandgal140
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46 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Looovvveeee This!

It's not like Sutton doesn't have any reason to feel uneasy when she's around Crystal. I get that Sutton has contributed to the friction but just because Sutton has mishandled parts of this feud doesn't mean that Crystal is completely innocent and that there is absolutely no reason why Sutton should dislike Crystal.  I mean there's enough evidence for anyone to understand why Sutton would be uncomfortable around Crystal. 

I don't think anybody thinks Crystal is completely innocent and that there's no reason Sutton shouldn't like Crystal. When Crystal said Sutton was jealous I didn't think Sutton was mean for not agreeing with her just to make Crystal happy.

It's more this:

 

2 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Here's my final word on this, since as I noted in another comment, I am really just here for the Erika drama that is taking forever to really take off this season. That said, the more comments I read about the Sutton/Crystal drama, I feel like there is a vocal group that desires a certain grace for Sutton that I don't feel is afforded Crystal. 

Case in point, I've read so many, "I've been uncomfortable too like Sutton, I've been emotional, etc. etc. and it's not fair or nice to not just show grace to her and Crystal is just a bitch period. Because ugh, don't you see her smug resting bitch face, so smug, such a bitch, etc."

And to that I say, where is the grace for Crystal? Where is the consideration that maybe Crystal is not just a raging, awful, hateful bitch but maybe just awkward in her own way that's being read wrongly, the same way some feel Sutton is as well. 

Yes! So many explanations for how hard it is to be someone who tries to be normal and for some reason just comes across to other people badly followed by Crystal clearly being a bitch because of how her face looks when she's eating a salad. 

Maybe Crystal is a total bitch at all times, but being considered a bitch for those reasons is an actual example of somebody being one thing and getting judged as a jerk regardless. 

Also, people who are socially awkward can be assholes. Both things can be true. 

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15 hours ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

Idk maybe she gives out even tinier, more expensive purses that look like the Fisher Price Little People house? (TM TheCouchPotato. I laughed so hard because I thought that at first too!) I'd settle for some dumplings, but I'm low-rent like that.

  I'm a weirdo who is actually uncomfortable when people gift me things. What do I do with my hands? How soon should I gift them back? Did I thank them profusely enough? I'd hate to accidentally be a Bethenny to someone's Dorinda over a giant nutcracker.

And you're right, Kid, she already keeps lists. Remember the list in Tahoe? Though, I do think she'd be fun to go somewhere with, like the spa day, or cruising around in her fancy car. Keeping things superficial. 

Bethenny was over the moon and thanked Dorinda profusely when the nutcracker arrived and said that she had saved Christmas.

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Sutton was so rude to say Crystal's pants were ugly. I really wish they hadn't brought Sutton back another season. I actually thought she was going to be a one season woman. I don't know why Kyle has such a soft spot for Sutton. Let her fight her own battles. Dorit looked cute. Sutton looked like she was having a meltdown. I was embarrassed for her. Erica is weird and her voice is try hard. She's trying to sound like Tinsely I think. But she's one of those women like Luanne who has a deep voice. Erica always reminds me of a jumbo barbie. How tall is she? My gosh

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1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

I haven’t chimed in yet this season but Crystal really pissed me off this episode. I wanted to give her a chance, but what she said to Sutton—“you’re an inappropriate, awkward person”—hit me hard. And I felt so much empathy for Sutton. 

 I’ve been called “inappropriate” and “awkward” my entire life. No matter how hard I tried, it was always wrong. I only ever meant to try and fit in and be helpful and I was *always* misinterpreted. So when Sutton brought Crystal her coat and got the response she did, that could have been me. And the way Crystal spun it was really hurtful. 

I found out as an adult that I have autism, which is the reason for my awkwardness. Not saying Sutton is, but I sense that she’s really trying and it doesn’t always work out for her. It’s misinterpreted. What Crystal said was incredibly hurtful—more hurtful than being called bad names. 

Crystal clearly dislikes Sutton, is smug and cruel to her and Sutton is the kind of person who will have a hard time being around a person who hates her—just for being awkward. At least the other ladies are trying to come to her defense. 

For me, (now that I know) in certain situations I’ve taken to telling people about my awkwardness up front so they don’t think it’s intentional. I genuinely want to fit in but, navigating the nuances of female friendships is hard enough without extra challenges.  I feel so bad for Sutton. 

 

THIIIIIISSSSS!!!

The bolded part really speaks to me. This a very common practice. People don't admit to it but a lot of times people justify being unkind, or inconsiderate to others who they deem are annoying or awkward. That their inability to NOT be irritating is enough of an offense to warrant mistreatment and I feel like that's what going on here. I'm not absolving Suttons missteps, and that's what they are, missteps. I don't think any of it comes from a malicious place and that should be worth something. It would definitely be worth a good amount of patience from me but I do realize not everyone is like me. LOL.

Crystal has already shown us that she has a pretty chilling side to her when she fells wronged or upset. I don't subscribe to that sort of behavior and I find it extremely distasteful. I'd choose socially awkward, mini chaos causing, emotionally sensitive over deliberate mean spirited spitefulness any day. 

 

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This has been bugging me and it's about the ring.  I've replayed that scene where Garcelle gets the ring and says "Crystal, I was admiring this from you" and then in response Crystal says "she mentioned she liked it and it's been stuck in my..." safe?  I'm not totally sure she said safe because her voice was drowned out.

Huh?

It sounds like she gave her a used ring?  and it was from Crystal, Kathy and Kyle?

I think Crystal was giving Garcelle a ring of hers that Garcelle had admired, and the Kathy and Kyle part was just another way of piling on to Sutton.

Crystal, Kyle and Kathy are mean girl bitches, and Crystal with her deadpan smile/smirk that is always planted on her face is even colder than Erika, plus she has zero personality. 

The upside is her name will always be attached to "ugly leather pants."  They were ugly and obviously Ms Superiority Complex didn't have her glam squad that day to dress her.  They looked like something she dug out of the back of her closet that were popular in the 80's. 

Kathy is no longer cute or funny to me, she is a try-hard and has become the joke.

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35 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

And to that I say, where is the grace for Crystal? Where is the consideration that maybe Crystal is not just a raging, awful, hateful bitch!

“But she is Blanche……she is!!!!!”

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15 hours ago, Rorysmom said:

Sutton has been playing this role of gifting in exchange for friendship and coddling/sympathy/protection for a while, probably since childhood. Whether she was rich or not. That's her way to gain a foothold.

I've noticed a pattern with the people I know who go extra with gift giving. They are usually sweet, but they are often socially awkward and don't get what's appropriate.  

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40 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

And to that I say, where is the grace for Crystal? Where is the consideration that maybe Crystal is not just a raging, awful, hateful bitch but maybe just awkward in her own way that's being read wrongly, the same way some feel Sutton is as well. 

I say this because I'm like Crystal. I cannot tell you the number of times I've had people, who without ever having a single conversation with me, declare me a bitch because I seem unapproachable and cold and I don't smile and kiki enough for them. I had a co-worker I barely worked with tell a manager that she felt I was a bit cold and dismissive in my emails. Why, because they were direct and to the point of the reason I was sending the email.

 

I guess, for me it's all in the way they choose to handle these dilemmas. I am one that will give as much grace as possible especially if I know that someone struggles emotionally on occasion or is sensitive to certain environments and situations. Sutton has actually made it a point to inform the woman about her tendencies and sensitivities as a forewarning AND as a way to maybe gain a bit of comfort moving into a situation.  Letting the others know about her quirks and stressors may make her feel safer therefore making her more comfortable and less likely TO BE awkward or say the wrong thing. I can't knock Sutton for what she uses to cope. I don't think it's a manipulative tool to be upfront about your quirks and vulnerabilities. What's the harm? Whether or not the others want to comply well, everyone has there different set of standards how to treat others and Sutton is still going to be at the mercy of the different personalities she encounters. All that to say is that at least Sutton has brought the issue to light and is honest about wanting the support of the woman and hopes she can feel like she's in a safe space around them. I extend Sutton grace because she's addressed her unease and has directly asked for kindness. 

With Crystal, if she is in deed struggling with the bizarro world version social awkwardness where being off putting, smug and cruel are the symptoms of her ailments then I have to admit I would have a harder time extending her some grace. Still would try though. Now, just because I can recognize the needs of Sutton doesn't mean I don't think Sutton should definitely do her best to get a grip. At the end of the day other people's struggles shouldn't be foisted on others to carry but in my opinion Suttons inept moments don't raise to the level of retaliation territory and I think it's reached a cruel place with Crystal. And in Crystal's case I actually do sense a bit of an imbalance but the fact that her methods of behavior lean toward not just quiet, and straightfaced but cold and mean tell me that my mode of dealing with her would probably be to just avoid her. Sutton on the other hand has qualities that would make me still want to interact with her even with her emotional sensitivities. 

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I would say that Crystal should just treat Sutton like a child but I have seen how Crystal treats her children so I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

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29 minutes ago, Shannah Banana said:

This has been bugging me and it's about the ring.  I've replayed that scene where Garcelle gets the ring and says "Crystal, I was admiring this from you" and then in response Crystal says "she mentioned she liked it and it's been stuck in my..." safe?  I'm not totally sure she said safe because her voice was drowned out.

Huh?

It sounds like she gave her a used ring?  and it was from Crystal, Kathy and Kyle?

I think Crystal was giving Garcelle a ring of hers that Garcelle had admired, and the Kathy and Kyle part was just another way of piling on to Sutton.

 

Sounds like she just says it was "stuck in my..." and trails off. Meaning it was stuck in her mind and that's why she thought of it as a gift.

I doubt Kathy, Kyle and Crystal knew that if they said they got a gift together Sutton would do...this. They probably didn't know she wouldn't bring a gift herself. I hope they had a backup because there's a lot of ways that plan might not have worked.

10 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Suttons inept moments don't raise to the level of retaliation territory and I think it's reached a cruel place with Crystal.

I have a hard time believing that if Crystal started whispering about how she didn't want to sit at a table with Sutton while Sutton was right there, or if she started yelling at Sutton for kicking her because Sutton was trying to bring her into a joke you'd describe it as inept rather than cruel.

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26 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

I have a hard time believing that if Crystal started whispering about how she didn't want to sit at a table with Sutton while Sutton was right there, or if she started yelling at Sutton for kicking her because Sutton was trying to bring her into a joke you'd describe it as inept rather than cruel.

I found nothing wrong with Suttons behavior at the table because Kyle was the one that was prodding her so I guess that isn't the best example to use. 

I also feel that, at that point, Sutton was well within her right to answer honestly about her feelings toward Crystal. Crystals doesn't seem to care that Sutton is uneasy with her Crystal shouldn't expect positive vibes coming from her anyway.

Not to say that Crystal should be prepared to be yelled at but I mean hello...... The tension is still there, it hasn't been resolved and everyone knew it. It's ridiculous to think that it could be swept under the rug. Never to be spoken about again. 

I think it's crystal clear (pun intended) that Sutton wasn't satisfied with how things played out and to think that Sutton would be able to hide it (even if she wanted to) is stupid thinking on their part. Of course it's gonna come up again. Sutton shared how hurt she was and Crystal responded with too bad so sad.  In my book, that means that I'm not giving you fake smiles and I'm not hiding how I feel about you. 

I feel like Sutton met Crystal more than half way by apologizing and explaining herself and expressing true regret for walking in on her. With the hopes that they can truly put it behind them. Crystal recited a definition out of the dictionary and left it there.  Oh yeah, they are definitely gonna be joking and taking selfies at their next gathering. For sure. 

 

Edited by Yours Truly
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2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

found nothing wrong with Suttons behavior at the table because Kyle was the one that was prodding her so I guess that isn't the best example to use. 

So Crystal is supposed to take back her literal textbook feelings and apologize to Sutton but Sutton can’t be polite and not randomly attack Crystal? Why couldn’t Sutton say “Garcelle your gift didn’t arrive in time”; “Hey, Kathy you joking about me being a peeping Tom is hurtful, Crystal and I decide to squash it.” She didn’t attempt to make any effort, she just lashed out at Crystal.

If Sutton gets dragged for the rest of the season she won’t be a “victim,” she will have ludicrously overplayed her hand and should have to deal with the consequences.

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Well I think Erika needs to send a big fat gift to Sutton.  Sutton's behavior at the dinner party has taken most of the focus off Erika and her divorce. 

Edited by Cosmocrush · Reason: grammar
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3 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I found nothing wrong with Suttons behavior at the table because Kyle was the one that was prodding her so I guess that isn't the best example to use. 

I also feel that, at that point, Sutton was well within her right to answer honestly about her feelings toward Crystal. Crystals doesn't seem to care that Sutton is uneasy with her Crystal shouldn't expect positive vibes coming from her anyway.

Not to say that Crystal should be prepared to be yelled at but I mean hello...... The tension is still there, it hasn't been resolved and everyone knew it. It's ridiculous to think that it could be swept under the rug. Never to be spoken about again. 

I think it's crystal clear (pun intended) that Sutton wasn't satisfied with how things played out and to think that Sutton would be able to hide it (even if she wanted to) is stupid thinking on their part. Of course it's gonna come up again. Sutton shared how hurt she was and Crystal responded with too bad so sad.  In my book, that means that I'm not giving you fake smiles and I'm not hiding how I feel about you. 

I feel like Sutton met Crystal more than half way by apologizing and explaining herself and expressing true regret for walking in on her. With the hopes that they can truly put it behind them. Crystal recited a definition out of the dictionary and left it there.  Oh yeah, they are definitely gonna be joking and taking selfies at their next gathering. For sure. 

 

So Sutton isn't in charge of her own behavior, Kyle is? (Nvm, I see you said that wasn't the best example.) I personally believe that someone talking trash about someone sitting right across from them at a table is extremely bad manners. Especially when the hatchet was supposed to be buried, like at least twice over. Sutton keeps digging it right back up again, lol.

How do you know Crystal isn't feeling extremely uncomfortable? She doesn't know when Sutton may pop off on her again. It keeps happening since their very first meeting! I would also be wary. Polite, but cautious.

 If Sutton still had lingering feelings over it all, I can sympathize, as it's awkward when you know someone may not like you, all due to something you may have done-on multiple occasions-but it's absolutely not on Crystal to make that better for her. Sutton herself has to work through those feelings on her own, and either let it go, or suck it up and show good manners and keep it superficially polite, or stop going to events where Crystal will be in attendance.

Yes, Sutton apologized for the walk in, but in this episode, she once again threw it in Crystal's face and alluded that there was something weird Crystal was doing while naked in her own room. She also called her crazy. And remember, this was again AFTER they both agreed to drop it and not talk about it any more. So once again, after it was supposed to be over, instead of pulling Crystal aside and talking it out, she screamed at her and got all the other women involved. How many truces must one strike? (Sutton also made the crack to Kyle on camera about seeing Crystal's tits AFTER the latest truce. Ok, yes, that was funny, but still)
  I'm sorry, but Sutton simply cannot have it both ways. Either she's willing to move past it, or she's not, and either way is fine, but she can't keep throwing it in Crystal's face. (Or I guess she can, because this is the BH show and none of them let things go, lol)

   Crystal has also apologized for retelling the story to the others, and after their last truce, she stopped taking about it as they'd agreed to do. The only thing Crystal will not apologize for or take back is how she felt when Sutton walked in on her. I am not grasping why this is expected of her, though I'd love to understand. She was polite the whole dinner. I've not once seen her acting cruelly toward Sutton, just wary, and she only got snarky after Sutton started yelling at her once again. 

 

Edited by WhatAmIWatching · Reason: Proofread before post
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I will say this about Crystal smiling that I don't think I've seen before.  Smiling can also be a response to deeply uncomfortable moments.

*You should see me at funerals.  If literally everyone else is weeping, I will want to laugh.  And you bet there's probably a smile on my face.  It doesn't mean I'm happy; rather it feels like an out of body experience because I'm not a crier.  

Crystal did nothing on that day to set Sutton off.  Sutton basically said as much. when she spoke to Kyle.  So Crystal is thinking she's having a generic day with the women.  She's not talking about Tahoe or to Sutton and yet Sutton gets so worked up she needs to step away from the table and suddenly they are back to the drama.

I don't read her as smug.  I read it as disbelief. And in that situation, I'd laugh too because I'd feel like I can't win.  Hell, I'd feel like I can't even "neutral" in peace.  

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Here is what I think about Sutton. She is so afraid that she is going to be labeled as having poor manners.  Miss southern belle does not know how to behave correctly around fancy company.  First she barges in a private bedroom without being told to come in, and is caught on camera doing this. Then she shows up at a birthday party and is the only one of the guests not to have a gift for the birthday girl. She did not know how to get out of this embarrassing moment so she reverts to acting like a little girl crying, making a scene  and blaming Crystal for her outburst. And Crystal was sitting at the table minding her own business the entire time. Sutton is a child in a woman's body. I bet her children are real proud of their mama, NOT. 

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Dorit claiming that the designer loved her style while we were looking at her wearing that hideous, wrinkled, ill-fitting jumpsuit was the most Dorit thing ever. 

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32 minutes ago, MinorL said:

Dorit claiming that the designer loved her style while we were looking at her wearing that hideous, wrinkled, ill-fitting jumpsuit was the most Dorit thing ever. 

I noticed while Sutton was melting down, Dorit was gazing at herself in her phone camera 😂 

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I’m not sure what is worse-watching a dead horse get beaten or reading about it. 

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2 hours ago, chewycandy said:

I noticed while Sutton was melting down, Dorit was gazing at herself in her phone camera 😂 

Perfection. 

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9 hours ago, politichick said:

Bethenny was over the moon and thanked Dorinda profusely when the nutcracker arrived and said that she had saved Christmas.

Oo I need to do a rewatch! I thought I was remembering drama, as in Dorinda felt B hadn't thanked her big enough..or maybe didn't thank her enough on camera? 

  At least Garcelle was very appreciative over her birthday gifts! Lol. She seems like a genuine and sweet person. She seemed really touched that they celebrated her day.
 

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’m not sure what is worse-watching a dead horse get beaten or reading about it. 

Omg this made me LOL so hard! I promise to not beat that poor horse any more, at least for this episode...

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16 hours ago, bkathi said:

I wish that Crystal and Sutton could go and get drunk together and just talk this out.  They both need to lay down their swords and listen to each other.  Away from the cameras and BH Bitches.  

They did at least twice. Kyle and Kathy decided to ignore their wishes.  I'm Team Crystal, but I don't think the Richards sisters are getting nearly enough grief for 1) prolonging this conflict despite the repeated stated wishes of both women directly involved and 2) bullying Sutton. Kathy has nicknamed Sutton with a name that really hurts her, then mocks and picks apart Sutton's responses. Kyle ignores Sutton when she tries to put this behind her, and even when she didn't want to talk about it during the party.

With that, I'm laying down my whip and apologizing to the horse, who died months ago.

Edited by Vanderboom
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Crystal clearly dislikes Sutton, is smug and cruel to her and Sutton is the kind of person who will have a hard time being around a person who hates her—just for being awkward.

If Crystal clearly dislikes Sutton, it's because Sutton has given her ample reason to dislike her. Maybe if Sutton wasn't constantly being an asshole to Crystal and instigating shit with her, Crystal wouldn't have any reason to hate her.

Quote

I'd choose socially awkward, mini chaos causing, emotionally sensitive over deliberate mean spirited spitefulness any day. 

Not seeing anything mean spirited from Crystal. Sutton seems like she can be a nice person but my God it would be so fucking exhausting being her friend.

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11 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’m not sure what is worse-watching a dead horse get beaten or reading about it. 

LOL!  Same.  It's like I'm on a jury and listening to witness recounts and the prosecution/defense going at it.

So far, I can't decide if one person holds all the responsibility. I'm leaning towards they are both right and wrong.

3 hours ago, Vanderboom said:

They did at least twice. Kyle and Kathy decided to ignore their wishes.  I'm Team Crystal, but I don't think the Richards sisters are getting nearly enough grief for 1) prolonging this conflict despite the repeated stated wishes of both women directly involved and 2) bullying Sutton. Kathy has nicknamed Sutton with a name that really hurts her, then mocks and picks apart Sutton's responses. Kyle ignores Sutton when she tries to put this behind her, and even when she didn't want to talk about it during the party.

With that, I'm laying down my whip and apologizing to the horse, who died months ago.

Someone pointed out in a different episode, that Kathy walked on on Sutton when she was naked and wouldn't leave the room.

So who is really the Peeping Thomasina?

Maybe Crystal and Sutton will start comparing notes and start realizing the Richard sisters, Vapid and Vyle, are poking the both of them.

Edited by dosodog
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On 7/8/2021 at 4:14 PM, 65mickey said:

Things were going great until the presents came out. Sutton immediately put on her stink face and said to Kyle I don't to be here around people that I don't like. She proceeded to get up from the table and leave in the middle of Garcelle's birthday party, make a scene and make everything about her. Once again she lashed out at Crystal.  Why, because she was embarrassed that she had not thought to bring a gift. Most people in this situation would have said nothing remained at the table and then privately said to Garcelle I am so sorry I forgot your present. Will get it to you soon. Crystal did nothing  to bring on Sutton's hysterical tantrum. Sutton is insecure and worried that she does not fit in with these women. And she is probably jealous of the friendship between Kyle, Kathy and Crystal. Most likley this is what Crystal was referring to when she called Sutton jealous. 

I rewatched the episode last night and that's exactly how I saw it as well.

Sutton appeared to be having a grand old time, eating, laughing and conversing, up until the cake was presented, then her entire demeanor changed.  

I think, plain and simple, she totally forgot Garcelle's birthday and was embarrassed.  And the irony in that her tag line for this season refers to her impeccable manners 😂

Why she didn't just call one of her boutique employees, tell them what item she wanted to give Garcelle, and have them wrap it and courier it over to the Hamlins' is a mystery to me.  "Your gift is en route" is a much better way to handle her faux pas than deflecting onto Crystal yet again.  Malibu is quite a drive from BH, granted, but she could have always had the gift couriered to Garcelle's residence.  

Crystal looked like she was having a great time and never mentioned a word about #coatgate, so  I definitely could understand her surprise when she found out Sutton's meltdown was (supposedly) about her when the only comment made about the incident was by Kathy with the "Tomasina" remark when Sutton first arrived.  

I want them to stop beating this dead horse and get back to Erika's fake bullshit.  I want to see who (if anyone) is going to hold her feet to the fire.  

 

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Crystal can’t deal with emotions since her relationships seems very transactional much like Erika Jayne.

We know that she thinks Sutton is being childish and her solution is to call her nanny to take her out of her sight while smirking her Dr. Evil smile.

She should have a white cat.

 

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5 hours ago, Vanderboom said:

They did at least twice. Kyle and Kathy decided to ignore their wishes.  I'm Team Crystal, but I don't think the Richards sisters are getting nearly enough grief for 1) prolonging this conflict despite the repeated stated wishes of both women directly involved and 2) bullying Sutton. Kathy has nicknamed Sutton with a name that really hurts her, then mocks and picks apart Sutton's responses. Kyle ignores Sutton when she tries to put this behind her, and even when she didn't want to talk about it during the party.

With that, I'm laying down my whip and apologizing to the horse, who died months ago.

This.  Exactly this.  Kathy is now being the mean girl bully by using that nickname, and Kyle is right there with her.  Kyle has always been a mean girl, but she's not good at hiding her deliberate mean girl shit stirring.  Kathy is more sly and just slips the bullying in there, while Kyle makes a big production of being Sutton's friend while setting her up for more drama.  "Why don't you just tell me the truth?  I'm your friend!"  No, Kyle, you are not Sutton's friend.  What do you bet she planted the idea in Crystal's head that Sutton is just jelly of her?

1 hour ago, dosodog said:

Someone pointed out in a different episode, that Kathy walked on on Sutton when she was naked and wouldn't leave the room.

So who is really the Peeping Thomasina?

Maybe Crystal and Sutton will start comparing notes and start realizing the Richard sisters, Vapid and Vyle, are poking the both of them.

That was me, and yes, Kathy did exactly that.  Yet, we haven't had half a dozen episodes of angst about Kathy barging in and staying there despite Sutton telling her twice that she was naked.  Sutton should throw that in Kathy's face next time she calls her Thomasina, and you know she will do that again.

Edited by izabella
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29 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I want them to stop beating this dead horse and get back to Erika's fake bullshit.  I want to see who (if anyone) is going to hold her feet to the fire.  

This is what I'm here for since I stopped watching after puppygate, but I am increasingly frustrated that Bravo just wants to focus on the dead horse.  I'm also increasingly frustrated  that Erika is getting kid gloves treatment and a platform to spread her lies.

Also, I want to be invited to a dinner party hosted and prepared by Harry with homegrown tomatoes.  But only in Canada with his real friends.

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17 hours ago, biakbiak said:

So Crystal is supposed to take back her literal textbook feelings and apologize to Sutton but Sutton can’t be polite and not randomly attack Crystal? Why couldn’t Sutton say “Garcelle your gift didn’t arrive in time”; “Hey, Kathy you joking about me being a peeping Tom is hurtful, Crystal and I decide to squash it.” She didn’t attempt to make any effort, she just lashed out at Crystal.

If Sutton gets dragged for the rest of the season she won’t be a “victim,” she will have ludicrously overplayed her hand and should have to deal with the consequences.

I don’t know what that all has to do with me thinking that Sutton’s discomfort at the table was completely understandable and as for her speaking on it at the table I found it okay because she was only answering Kyle after being continuously prodded. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

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I'd choose socially awkward, mini chaos causing, emotionally sensitive over deliberate mean spirited spitefulness any day. 

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Not seeing anything mean spirited from Crystal. Sutton seems like she can be a nice person but my God it would be so fucking exhausting being her friend.

Yeah, you'd never guess this this description that "awkward, mini chaos causing, emotionally sensitive refered to the woman yelling, "What crazy planet are you from?"

And "deliberate mean spirited spitefulness" referred to the answer "not yours."

Sounds more like the first person started crying over not bringing a gift and the second person started whispering in her ear that this made her a terrible person forever.

I just think if the women reversed lines the descriptions would reverse also.

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Sutton...after the party (where you HOPEFULLY stay under the radar which didn't happen), you invite Garcelle out to brunch or something-where you gift her an amazing gift. Then, explain you didn't want to embarass the others who weren't as fabulous in their gifting. That's how you cover up your embarrassment.  

I, too, don't like looking at Crystal's smug face.  I don't like her. Not one bit. I'm not going to either. 

Erika, no. Not buying the miserable marriage fakery. You either faked it for over 20 yrs or are faking it now. Either way, the lifestyle was earned by the negative parts of being with Tom and now consider the divorce as you getting fired by your employer. You can live more than comfortably at this point. Even if it means living outside of BH. 

Rinna is a pimp to her daughters. Harry is a quirky guy. I can understand the Ursula Andress relationship somehow. Kyle is coming across more relatable and likeable in a bizarre twist!!! I never liked her. I just didn't appreciate her telling Harry that his 19 yr old can end up pregnant because she did. She has similar aged daughters and older.  So maybe HER daughters. Why Harry's (not to defend the social climbing Hadidnt's).

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34 minutes ago, izabella said:

Also, I want to be invited to a dinner party hosted and prepared by Harry with homegrown tomatoes.  But only in Canada with his real friends.

Your post reminded me that during these Covid times, we can't visit Canada.  Poor Harry!  Maybe that's why he is in these scenes this season.  I bet he's counting the days until he can return!

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18 hours ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

So Sutton isn't in charge of her own behavior, Kyle is? (Nvm, I see you said that wasn't the best example.) I personally believe that someone talking trash about someone sitting right across from them at a table is extremely bad manners. Especially when the hatchet was supposed to be buried, like at least twice over. Sutton keeps digging it right back up again, lol.

How do you know Crystal isn't feeling extremely uncomfortable? She doesn't know when Sutton may pop off on her again. It keeps happening since their very first meeting! I would also be wary. Polite, but cautious.

 If Sutton still had lingering feelings over it all, I can sympathize, as it's awkward when you know someone may not like you, all due to something you may have done-on multiple occasions-but it's absolutely not on Crystal to make that better for her. Sutton herself has to work through those feelings on her own, and either let it go, or suck it up and show good manners and keep it superficially polite, or stop going to events where Crystal will be in attendance.

Yes, Sutton apologized for the walk in, but in this episode, she once again threw it in Crystal's face and alluded that there was something weird Crystal was doing while naked in her own room. She also called her crazy. And remember, this was again AFTER they both agreed to drop it and not talk about it any more. So once again, after it was supposed to be over, instead of pulling Crystal aside and talking it out, she screamed at her and got all the other women involved. How many truces must one strike? (Sutton also made the crack to Kyle on camera about seeing Crystal's tits AFTER the latest truce. Ok, yes, that was funny, but still)
  I'm sorry, but Sutton simply cannot have it both ways. Either she's willing to move past it, or she's not, and either way is fine, but she can't keep throwing it in Crystal's face. (Or I guess she can, because this is the BH show and none of them let things go, lol)

   Crystal has also apologized for retelling the story to the others, and after their last truce, she stopped taking about it as they'd agreed to do. The only thing Crystal will not apologize for or take back is how she felt when Sutton walked in on her. I am not grasping why this is expected of her, though I'd love to understand. She was polite the whole dinner. I've not once seen her acting cruelly toward Sutton, just wary, and she only got snarky after Sutton started yelling at her once again. 

 

Sutton is also maneuvering around the other ladies and how they are choosing to handle it. Kathy and Kyle are getting a kick out of the Tomasina jab. The other Woman are very invested in wanting Sutton to be okay and done with (in theory cause ratings) I mean that’s a lot of pressure from multiple sources WHILE she is still trying to figure out how to be in the same space with a person who obviously doesn’t think much of her and who she isn’t a fan of either. It’s not just oh Sutton needs to leave Crystal alone. The same way Crystal isn’t required to wipe that ridiculous smirk off her face and leave the cold bitch demeanor at the door then I would expect Sutton to be able to be in her own space feeling how she feels without having Kyle or the others open the door for more ridiculous dialogue on a sensitive subject.  My annoyance comes from the fact that the woman including Kyle Understand the dynamic and the mood for the next couple of gathering so for Kyle to open that door. YES, YES, a thousand times YES! In a group setting EVERYONE is responsible for the mood ESPECIALLY on these Housewives shows and for the life of me I never understand how the actions of the group as a whole never factors into how the storyline main characters are dealing with any giving situation. It’s the point of the show. Cast dynamics. 
 

At best Sutton would have been at the table with sour grapes face and most likely probably would have tried to make an early exit. Maybe not the most gracious option but still acceptable. Kyles contribution challenges Sutton’s ability to keep the topic at bay. It’s a progression of moments and you can’t tell me that these woman don’t understand that. At this point I’m not surprised Kyle engages Sutton because hello thats the design of the show. What I’m not going to do is ignore all the comments and contributing factors that created the ill will in the first place. The group setting, the reactions from the others, the jokes that have Been birthed from the incident (Tomasina, Ugly Learher pants), the pressure of the other woman’s rapid fire insertion of their opinions good and bad. All these things have an effect and that’s the design of the show so no I’m not gonna apply traditional management as if there aren’t a whole lot of other details that come into play when these filmed housewives “scandals” occur. Sutton isn’t working with traditional and typical scenarios. She’s dealing with Housewives OG’s Kyle and Rinna that really know how to keep a storyline going and keep the topic alive which is hard for someone still trying to get a grip on the situation. They see the crack in Sutton because It’s no secret. It’s easier to get something out of Sutton. She isn’t denying still struggling with how it all went down. The reason it’s going to keep being focused on is because it’s a source of tension and the OG’s know their role. I know this, we’ve seen it season after season. Sutton’s reaction is not just hers, it all factors in things that wouldn’t naturally be the case in an ordinary setting. 

If I saw Sutton upset I would ask if she’s good if she’s say yeah then I’d leave it at and move on to a filler topic just to raise the mood. If she said I don’t like being around people who don’t like me I’m not gonna play dumb and be all well what do you mean? I know what the hell is othering her so I’m not gonna push her to speak on it duh!  I’m gonna say well I like you let’s focus on that and then we go with the rest of our day and finish it off with now let’s toast to Garcelle. Done. But then again Imma a peacemaker so it comes easy to me. I know I know that’s wasaaaayyyy too hard for some to phantom. (I work out that’s where I get the strength 😝) But yeah, these are not normal and typical situations, maybe in similar in nature but with the cameras, the cast and the need for ratings it’s a real situation on steroids so even tho we do recognize the game and seen it before in real life  it’s times 100 for the cast. I’m not gonna judge behaviors and then leave out 50% of contributing factors and lay it all at one persons feet while siting possible approaches based on scenarios that’s aren’t the same as what goes on on these shows. The big picture and the people involved, especially on these reality shows, is a very huge factor. It’s bigger than just one particular person. 
 

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6 hours ago, Vanderboom said:

They did at least twice. Kyle and Kathy decided to ignore their wishes.  I'm Team Crystal, but I don't think the Richards sisters are getting nearly enough grief for 1) prolonging this conflict despite the repeated stated wishes of both women directly involved and 2) bullying Sutton. Kathy has nicknamed Sutton with a name that really hurts her, then mocks and picks apart Sutton's responses. Kyle ignores Sutton when she tries to put this behind her, and even when she didn't want to talk about it during the party.

With that, I'm laying down my whip and apologizing to the horse, who died months ago.

Exactly. Sutton has tried to leave it alone more than once and it has been brought up NUMEROUS times in a group setting putting Sutton on the spot. I don’t fault Sutton for not knowing the best way to shut it down because A) I think she has a right to still be upset so I don’t think she should have to be fake about being ok with it. B)EVERYONE knows she’s not the greatest when having all eyes on her. So I’m not surprised that she becomes emotional which is why I’m on to those “matter of fact” moments when a housewife (Kyle) innocently asks a question at the table.. 😒

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5 hours ago, Hiyo said:

 

Not seeing anything mean spirited from Crystal. Sutton seems like she can be a nice person but my God it would be so fucking exhausting being her friend.

I see it. 
Being exhausting doesn’t scare me away especially if I feel like your an overall nice person. Although Sometimes effort is a dealbreaker for some friendship so there’s that I guess. 

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23 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Isn't that from the promo for next week's episode? I say this only to point out that until then, we don't have the full context of how this exchange came about. 

Here's my final word on this, since as I noted in another comment, I am really just here for the Erika drama that is taking forever to really take off this season. That said, the more comments I read about the Sutton/Crystal drama, I feel like there is a vocal group that desires a certain grace for Sutton that I don't feel is afforded Crystal. 

Case in point, I've read so many, "I've been uncomfortable too like Sutton, I've been emotional, etc. etc. and it's not fair or nice to not just show grace to her and Crystal is just a bitch period. Because ugh, don't you see her smug resting bitch face, so smug, such a bitch, etc."

And to that I say, where is the grace for Crystal? Where is the consideration that maybe Crystal is not just a raging, awful, hateful bitch but maybe just awkward in her own way that's being read wrongly, the same way some feel Sutton is as well. 

I say this because I'm like Crystal. I cannot tell you the number of times I've had people, who without ever having a single conversation with me, declare me a bitch because I seem unapproachable and cold and I don't smile and kiki enough for them. I had a co-worker I barely worked with tell a manager that she felt I was a bit cold and dismissive in my emails. Why, because they were direct and to the point of the reason I was sending the email.

As opposed to starting them off with, "how are your kids and how's the weather over there, etc." I don't do mundane and small talk is akin to torture for me. Because in actuality I'm deeply introverted and more than anything desire quiet and calm. I hate confrontations and arguments and in heated moments, I do the shut down and give you the blank stare. And I don't care for histrionic personalities. 

But in a world that's heavily focused on the extrovert ideal, personalities like mine are the ones quickly dismissed, belittled or just plain hated as "you're a bitch". Going back to the Sutton and Crystal issue. In the same breath that some feel Crystal is an awful bitch for not pacifying and catering to Sutton's needs, is a dismissal of how Crystal felt when Sutton walked in on her. 

I have seen little consideration to the possibility of Crystal's maybe having personal space issues that exacerbated the moment and contributed to her feelings of violation. No, it's just "you're a hateful, evil bitch Crystal". But then it's all "poor, emotional Sutton. Why can't the world just understand that she's just a sensitive soul and Cyrstal you awful, evil shrew for not just saying what she wants to hear and making her feel better and making everything about poor, poor sensitive Sutton".

I'm not really sure what you mean b/c if you look through this thread you've got numerous people in Crystal's camp that aren't extending grace to Sutton, maybe more than those who are in Sutton's camp not extending grace to Sutton.  Seems like Sutton gets hit with as many or maybe more unflattering adjectives than Crystal.  

 

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It's not a case of effort, it's case of constantly have to walk around eggshells and hope that person isn't triggered and doesn't have a meltdown.

Crystal seems to a (in the words of Kandi from RHOA) "don't start none, won't be none" kind of person. Any perceived meanness from her is her reacting to Sutton's antics. We haven't seen Crystal have any beef with any of the other women.

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1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Sutton is also maneuvering around the other ladies and how they are choosing to handle it. Kathy and Kyle are getting a kick out of the Tomasina jab. The other Woman are very invested in wanting Sutton to be okay and done with (in theory cause ratings) I mean that’s a lot of pressure from multiple sources WHILE she is still trying to figure out how to be in the same space with a person who obviously doesn’t think much of her and who she isn’t a fan of either. It’s not just oh Sutton needs to leave Crystal alone. The same way Crystal isn’t required to wipe that ridiculous smirk off her face and leave the cold bitch demeanor at the door then I would expect Sutton to be able to be in her own space feeling how she feels without having Kyle or the others open the door for more ridiculous dialogue on a sensitive subject.  My annoyance comes from the fact that the woman including Kyle Understand the dynamic and the mood for the next couple of gathering so for Kyle to open that door. YES, YES, a thousand times YES! In a group setting EVERYONE is responsible for the mood ESPECIALLY on these Housewives shows and for the life of me I never understand how the actions of the group as a whole never factors into how the storyline main characters are dealing with any giving situation. It’s the point of the show. Cast dynamics. 
 

At best Sutton would have been at the table with sour grapes face and most likely probably would have tried to make an early exit. Maybe not the most gracious option but still acceptable. Kyles contribution challenges Sutton’s ability to keep the topic at bay. It’s a progression of moments and you can’t tell me that these woman don’t understand that. At this point I’m not surprised Kyle engages Sutton because hello thats the design of the show. What I’m not going to do is ignore all the comments and contributing factors that created the ill will in the first place. The group setting, the reactions from the others, the jokes that have Been birthed from the incident (Tomasina, Ugly Learher pants), the pressure of the other woman’s rapid fire insertion of their opinions good and bad. All these things have an effect and that’s the design of the show so no I’m not gonna apply traditional management as if there aren’t a whole lot of other details that come into play when these filmed housewives “scandals” occur. Sutton isn’t working with traditional and typical scenarios. She’s dealing with Housewives OG’s Kyle and Rinna that really know how to keep a storyline going and keep the topic alive which is hard for someone still trying to get a grip on the situation. It’s no secret. Sutton isn’t denying still struggling with how it all went down. The reason it’s going to keep being focused on is because it’s a source of tension and the OG’s know their role. I know this, we’ve seen it season after season. Sutton’s reaction is not just hers, it all factors in things that wouldn’t naturally be the case in an ordinary setting. 

If I saw Sutton upset I would ask if she’s good if she’s say yeah then I’d leave it at and move on to a filler topic just to raise the mood. If she said I don’t like being around people who don’t like me I’m not gonna play dumb and be all well what do you mean? I know what the hell is othering her so I’m not gonna push her to speak on it duh!  I’m gonna say well I like you let’s focus on that and then we go with the rest of our day and finish it off with now let’s toast to Garcelle. Done. But then again Imma a peacemaker so it comes easy to me. I know I know that’s wasaaaayyyy too hard for some to phantom. (I work out that’s where I get the strength 😝) But yeah, these are not normal and typical situations, maybe in similar in nature but with the cameras, the cast and the need for ratings it’s a real situation on steroids so even tho we do recognize the game and seen it before in real life  it’s times 100 for the cast. I’m not gonna judge behaviors and then leave out 50% of contributing factors and lay it all at one persons feet while siting possible approaches based on scenarios that’s aren’t the same as what goes on on these shows. The big picture and the people involved, especially on these reality shows, is a very huge factor. It’s bigger than just one particular person. 
 

Well, I can agree that neither Sutton nor Crystal had time to really move past the feelings, and that they both hold some fault for the mess. I just put a little more fault on Sutton's side for her reactions at the party is all. (I'm not seeing meanness from Crystal, I'm seeing her disengaged until it comes directly at her)

I most definitely agree that Kyle and Kathy are the major instigators and the ones keeping things going! I wrote earlier that I'm surprised that no one (in the cast) is calling them out at all.

I think the Kathy/Sutton naked thing wasn't a biggie because Sutton doesn't have the body issues Crystal does. Plus, Kathy and Sutton hadn't been fighting since the first day, and they don't appear to be brand new acquaintances to boot. (Ok ok I'm absolutely for sure, no matter what, done with it, now that the horse is glue, lol) 

I'm actually surprised Rinna didn't get more involved, as instigating is her wheelhouse. I guess she's too busy trying to rehab her image from last year?

I'm liking Dorit this time, probably because she's not doing anything at all, lol! Erika needs to stop with the trying to garner sympathy. I hope the producers keep throwing some shade, especially if the cast is too chicken to do it.

 These shows are fascinating because I've never personally seen people behaving like they do, in public or private.

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For the record (not that anyone is keeping one!) as much as I do love litigating their encouters, I feel pretty neutral on both Sutton and Crystal. Neither of them has really made much of an impression on me as a personality. They're both just sort of there. I think Crystal's perceived smirking seems like a really common defensive reaction to the unexpected outbursts she's been in and I do admit to getting satisfaction of her just saying no to Sutton's demands, but that doesn't mean she's in general a nice person or not. Same with Sutton. Her reactions to feeling left out make sense to me, they're just not a whole personality.

The other ladies all seem like clear characters in the context of the show. Even Kathy who's just shown up, very quickly established herself as a recognizable presence. These two haven't. Sure, if they were casting a high school clique Crystal would be cast as the cool leader of the popular girls or mean girls and Sutton would be the over-eager, frazzled wannabe, but those aren't actual people. If the two of them didn't wind up in these fights I honestly might have forgotten they were even there. I don't usually miss them when they're not. They still seem like occasionally loud, collapsing background. 

And yes, Kyle absolutely intentionally fanned that spark into a flame with Sutton. Though Sutton probably went with her in part because they both know this is how the show works. Out to lunch with some other people Sutton probably wouldn't have indulged her own feelings so much from the get-go. 

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I think Sutton was really upset that Kyle was in on the gift with Crystal. If it had been only Kathy and Crystal I don’t think she would have reacted. She’s been confiding in Kyle and thought the two were closer.

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30 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

It's not a case of effort, it's case of constantly have to walk around eggshells and hope that person isn't triggered and doesn't have a meltdown.

Crystal seems to a (in the words of Kandi from RHOA) "don't start none, won't be none" kind of person. Any perceived meanness from her is her reacting to Sutton's antics. We haven't seen Crystal have any beef with any of the other women.

If I know what someone is sensitive to, friend, acquaintance, co worker you name it then I don’t consider it a burden to just avoid falling into that territory. I mean I still don’t get what’s so hard. The Sutton drama has to do with a two separate things with one particular person. The conversation interruption which I admit was a very very bad look and the walk in. Both uncomfortable and rather intense. I don’t think being sensitive and cautious because there’s still an elephant in the room with Crystal and Sutton is walking on eggshells. 
 

As for other interactions with Sutton. I don’t think it would be all that challenging but again I don’t make other people’s quirks, challenges and sensitivities about me. As long as it’s a good natured vibe and mostly positive energy then I can rock with you. I don’t find trying to make another person comfortable around me all that burdensome. I mean there are nightmare takers out there in the world that would be an absolute NO for me but to me Sutton hardly falls in that camp. 
 

Some people are better suited for the fragile and sensitive and that’s just the way it is. Garcelle seems to be one. Let’s hope she keeps it there cause so far I really like her. 

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Pretty sure Sutton has been mad since Crystal said she was basically ridiculous for saying she doesn’t see colour. Which is ridiculous. Sutton should be embarrassed of how she made the bday party about herself. She needs meds or something. Not even a Crystal fan but Sutton is a joke this season. I didn’t mind her before but I’m over her stupid tears now. She’s always playing the victim.

I don’t feel like hearing about Kim. She is a jerk who takes no accountability for her actions.

So heartbreaking seeing Erika having to drive around in a new Range Rover and live in some 10 grand a month dump. How does she get out of bed in the morning. Ugh hate that gross bitch. If these women don’t start calling her out it’s gross. Maybe in future episodes but I doubt it.

I want spaghetti now. Harry’s delish looking food was wasted on these bitches lol. Especially his wife.

Scott Disick is a gross perv. He dates teenagers because he’s a complete loser and a real woman would never want him I’m sure. Also his kids are complete brats. Rinna loves this relationship tho because she wishes she was Kris Jenner.

Even with the annoying talk about being violated all the time this season is still a million times better then the trash that is RHONY right now.

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Crystal is a smug mean girl. I’m not sure why she’s on the show. 

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9 minutes ago, hisbunkie said:

Crystal is a smug mean girl. I’m not sure why she’s on the show. 

To make Erika look good.

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44 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

For the record (not that anyone is keeping one!) as much as I do love litigating their encouters, I feel pretty neutral on both Sutton and Crystal. Neither of them has really made much of an impression on me as a personality. They're both just sort of there. I think Crystal's perceived smirking seems like a really common defensive reaction to the unexpected outbursts she's been in and I do admit to getting satisfaction of her just saying no to Sutton's demands, but that doesn't mean she's in general a nice person or not. Same with Sutton. Her reactions to feeling left out make sense to me, they're just not a whole personality.

The other ladies all seem like clear characters in the context of the show. Even Kathy who's just shown up, very quickly established herself as a recognizable presence. These two haven't. Sure, if they were casting a high school clique Crystal would be cast as the cool leader of the popular girls or mean girls and Sutton would be the over-eager, frazzled wannabe, but those aren't actual people. If the two of them didn't wind up in these fights I honestly might have forgotten they were even there. I don't usually miss them when they're not. They still seem like occasionally loud, collapsing background. 

And yes, Kyle absolutely intentionally fanned that spark into a flame with Sutton. Though Sutton probably went with her in part because they both know this is how the show works. Out to lunch with some other people Sutton probably wouldn't have indulged her own feelings so much from the get-go. 

This is mostly the way I feel, too. I have defended Crystal but not because I like or dislike her - I don't think we've gotten to see enough of her independent of this stupid conflict with Sutton for me to get a sense of her. But in this situation, I think her sins have been relatively minor, while Sutton has been the instigator.

As for Sutton, I really disliked the interactions she had with Teddi at the beginning of last season - as others have noted, while some are saying that people should be so generous to Sutton because she is so emotional, she didn't really extend that kind of grace to Teddi last season when she told her she was boring and her style sucked. At those moments, she was pretty damn cruel herself.  But on the other hand, I was also fine with the way she stood up for herself against Dorit and Rinna over "freak the F out-gate."

Based on the interactions this season, I would put Sutton now in the negative (as opposed to neutral, which is where I was at the end of last season) territory. I don't think she is necessarily a bad person (like Brandi) but I do think she would be exhausting to be around and I would have zero interest in wanting to be her friend because I wouldn't want to have to walk on egg shells around her. 

On a separate topic - man, I can't imagine why Erika ever thought this whole story would fly.  I get that Erika is very controlling of her image, but I am not sure why she thought many people would be so sympathetic to the fact that she has to "downsize" from a mausoleum to what is a decent-sized home. Especially during the pandemic. I mean, it's so obvious she's trying to drive her public image but she must have truly thought that the public was that stupid to not see what is obvious. 

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