S13.E09: The Salem B.... Trials

[Cosmocrush]

I don't mind Eboni.  I don't mind her trying to have conversations many of us were having this year.  But I think that Leah attaching herself to Eboni is making it something else.  Leah is abrasive and rude.  No one is going to be open to a discussion after being yelled at they are "everything wrong with the world" for crying out loud.   If Eboni didn't have Leah hitching her wagon to her, I think she would have come off much better.  

I remember thinking Leah's mother looked a hundred years old.   Now I get why. 

[Avaleigh]

14 minutes ago, Thumper said:

I’d rather have Tinsley back than Dorinda.  I fear Dorinda  would see it as approval of her nasty behavior.

Yeah, I don't want Dorinda thinking this show needs her after all the mean and toxic shit she's pulled over the seasons. I'd rather them get Tinsley back or someone new. 

Whenever there are new additions to the RH shows, there's always a little nostalgia for past Housewives even some of the terrible ones. When people are currently watching someone who is awful, it can make the others seem like they aren't so bad. 

I always want to remind myself that the others really *were* that bad, we've just had some time away from them so their behavior doesn't seem as immediately terrible as the person who is currently working our nerves onscreen. 

I'm definitely ready for Leah and Eboni to go, but that doesn't mean that I want to see Dorinda, Aviva or Kelly "I'm up here and you're down here" Bensimon take one of their places.

The same thing has happened with Beverly Hills. People have actually missed Kim and Brandi just because they're tired of some of the others. There is absolutely nothing that would make me want to see those two back as full time cast members, I don't care how horrible the others might be. Just get somebody new, don't start digging in the trash heap for replacements. 

[byrd]

1 minute ago, Avaleigh said:

Yeah, I don't want Dorinda thinking this show needs her after all the mean and toxic shit she's pulled over the seasons. I'd rather them get Tinsley back or someone new. 

Whenever there are new additions to the RH shows, there's always a little nostalgia for past Housewives even some of the terrible ones. When people are currently watching someone who is awful, it can make the others seem like they aren't so bad. 

I always want to remind myself that the others really *were* that bad, we've just had some time away from them so their behavior doesn't seem as immediately terrible as the person who is currently working our nerves onscreen. 

I'm definitely ready for Leah and Eboni to go, but that doesn't mean that I want to see Dorinda, Aviva or Kelly "I'm up here and you're down here" Bensimon take one of their places.

The same thing has happened with Beverly Hills. People have actually missed Kim and Brandi just because they're tired of some of the others. There is absolutely nothing that would make me want to see those two back as full time cast members, I don't care how horrible the others might be. Just get somebody new, don't start digging in the trash heap for replacements. 

Yes, I agree however I really do miss the glamour of Lisa Vanderpump .  

[byrd]

39 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Yeah, I don't want Dorinda thinking this show needs her after all the mean and toxic shit she's pulled over the seasons. I'd rather them get Tinsley back or someone new. 

Whenever there are new additions to the RH shows, there's always a little nostalgia for past Housewives even some of the terrible ones. When people are currently watching someone who is awful, it can make the others seem like they aren't so bad. 

I always want to remind myself that the others really *were* that bad, we've just had some time away from them so their behavior doesn't seem as immediately terrible as the person who is currently working our nerves onscreen. 

I'm definitely ready for Leah and Eboni to go, but that doesn't mean that I want to see Dorinda, Aviva or Kelly "I'm up here and you're down here" Bensimon take one of their places.

The same thing has happened with Beverly Hills. People have actually missed Kim and Brandi just because they're tired of some of the others. There is absolutely nothing that would make me want to see those two back as full time cast members, I don't care how horrible the others might be. Just get somebody new, don't start digging in the trash heap for replacements. 

I could never miss Kim and Brandi Lol !!!

[Pop Tart]

6 hours ago, 65mickey said:

I am so in agreement with all of this post. Last year when they went to Newport and Leah tured it into a drunken screaming vulgar tirade all about her I was furious. And if they screamed Salem bitches one more time I was going to throw something at the TV. This is how I would imagine teenagers would act if going to Salem. I had to shake my head when the lady at the hotel was trying to give them some perspective on the witch trials and those fools thought she was saying that the trials and executions were held at the hotel.   Yeah things must not have changed much since 1692. 

Generally I feel so bad for any of the "normals" who have to interact with the housewives. People teaching them how to do something (fishing), people giving them a tour, or whatever. So, so painful to have to see someone who cares about their job having to do that job with a group of women who couldn't care less at best and at worst are a bunch of shrieking lunatics.

But in these current seasons of HW shows filmed during the pandemic, I think that many of these venues were just so happy to have any customers at all? And customers, horrendous as they are, who are eating, drinking, staying at the hotel, etc? All were most likely a boon to those businesses? Still terrible that the staff have to put up with them, but I'm thinking that the HW's and crew were being tested regularly, so I'm glad for them to have some business at a time when they probably had close to none.  

And too, when they're giving their spiel about the hotel or restaurant or tattoos or whatever, that is more for the viewing audience  than it is the HW's. The venues want to get the word out about their business and put up with the obnoxious for the advertising that comes with it.

 

[Cosmocrush]

2 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

And too, when they're giving their spiel about the hotel or restaurant or tattoos or whatever, that is more for the viewing audience  than it is the HW's. The venues want to get the word out about their business and put up with the obnoxious for the advertising that comes with it.

That's a good point.  Because these HWs don't listen to anything/anyone.    Thinking that the witch trials  (1600s) actually took place in a hotel they were just told was built in the 1920s must be beyond frustrating. 

[byrd]

15 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

I think not. Personally, she can’t even pay her “interns”

Do interns get paid ? 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Cosmocrush said:

I caught that too and it cracked me up.  They were at a coffee shop.  The other women just ordered beverages.  But Sonja orders clams (?!) and probably another order to stick in her purse on the way out the door. 

It was sooooooo funny when Sonja ordered clams, and then I think Eboni was really caught off guard, and ordered a water?  Hahahahhahahahah.  What a contrast!

[Cosmocrush]

8 minutes ago, byrd said:

Do interns get paid ? 

Well, real interns do.   But Sonja's interns learn to pack and run baths so no, they do not. 

[UsernameFatigue]

5 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Funny that Leah went around the room pointing out how each returning cast member treated her “like sh*t because she was the new girl” without even considering the way she herself behaved last season. 

Calling Eboni out for ruining every social engagement with teachable moments isn’t treating her like shit. It’s letting her know she’s been coming off as preachy teachy and it’s buzzkill. I thought I might like her at first but I can’t with the smirky face. 

I don’t get the Covid glam squad. It’s not at all real, but then again Leah is the least real member of the cast if you add up all the things about her that are fake (and I don’t mean plastic surgery).

At this point, I am only watching because for me, Leah has gone from being supremely annoying, to just hilarious. She has to be the most unaware howife, in terms of how she comes across, of any howife I have ever watched. And that it a really high bar to clear.

Leah constantly puts down the other women in her talking heads, like they are so embarrassing in their antics. Meanwhile Leah is constantly flying off the handle, and crying fake tears, in every episode. Drunk or sober, makes no difference. Looks like fake tears make a reappearance next episode. She is more embarrassing that the rest of the the women combined. Leah is also totally clueless about how she looks when she continually puts down the others for their wealth, but hires someone to get her kid into a preferred high school, and brings a glam squad on the trip. Save your money, honey. It doesn't help your appearance when you are so ugly on the inside. 

The only positive thing I can say about Leah is that she managed to make Eboni squirm, that someone who is not the sharpest stick in the forest was trying in her own clueless way to support Eboni. And for all of Eboni's accomplishments, she manages quite often to come out with the wrong word or saying. This episode it was someone throwing someone else on the bus, as opposed to under the bus. Lol. 

I love that at the end of the lecture  episode, only Leah, Eboni and Bershan were sitting at the table. And I am pretty sure Bershan wanted to leave too. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[Feech]

Eboni wants to throw Ramona under the back of the bus.

[Baltimore Betty]

4 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Did Sonja say that Eboni was "tweaking"  Ummm, that means something completely different than "twerking"  

How does TV work?  Can Andy go to the cutting room floor and re-edit what is left of this horrible season?  Eboni and Leah have taken over this show and its god awful.  Imagine how much fun they'd be having right now at Blue Manor.....I miss Dorinda so much.  

 

I predict Barshan will be the breakout star from this season, she has a great vibe and seems like she wants to have fun, wear designer clothes and maybe throw a really fun party with interesting people.

Did anyone hear Ramona describing her 50 close friends as just people she knows but the HW friends are the people that know her core (but was not going to invite them to her birthday party last year, lol). 

 

[SemiCharmedLife]

6 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

 

I don't get the whole dress up thing, what did dressing up in leather have to do with Salem?

I think Leah was tying in the dressing in leather/vinyl to the dinner at the tattoo parlor.  

[Baltimore Betty]

10 minutes ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

I think Leah was tying in the dressing in leather/vinyl to the dinner at the tattoo parlor.  

Well I am sure the employees at that parlor were very impressed with that.

[For Cereals]

12 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Worldly and smart. Sonja brings nothing to the table, but she wants worldly and smart. She’s useless. I’m mostly joking when I say I suppose they could harvest her organs.

 

That’s the thing, I swear we’ve seen the dumbing down of Sonja from when she was first introduced on the show.  I remember them setting up her as having the same cache as Countess Luann at the time.  I would rewatch but I don’t care that much.

[ichbin]

44 minutes ago, For Cereals said:

That’s the thing, I swear we’ve seen the dumbing down of Sonja from when she was first introduced on the show.  I remember them setting up her as having the same cache as Countess Luann at the time.  I would rewatch but I don’t care that much.

She has become a caricature of herself, probably because she thinks it is endearing to viewers. 

[65mickey]

1 hour ago, Cosmocrush said:

Well, real interns do.   But Sonja's interns learn to pack and run baths so no, they do not. 

As Sonja said she teaches her interns things that they could not learn in a classroom. I would agree with that. 

[Mr. Miner]

4 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

As Sonja said she teaches her interns things that they could not learn in a classroom. I would agree with that. 

Things like dildos are dishwasher safe?

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I love that at the end of the lecture  episode, only Leah, Eboni and Bershan were sitting at the table. And I am pretty sure Bershan wanted to leave too. 

I would have vertigoed my way out of there so fast I probably would have knocked over the fortune teller on contractor stilts in the process.

[njbchlover]

1 hour ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

I think Leah was tying in the dressing in leather/vinyl to the dinner at the tattoo parlor.  

And, there is another issue with Leah. If that was the case, Leah is equating tattoos to someone who dresses in a certain way, a way that can be seen as trashy or sluttish to certain people.  So many people have tattoos now - in fact, I remember reading a while ago that more adults in America have at least one tattoo than those who have none.  So that means people from all walks of life and all manners and style of dress.  Preppy/professional style, hipsters, bohemian/hippie, high fashion, etc.

Leah is so good at screaming at the other women (specifically Ramona) about how they live in their bubble, basically calling them rich white snobs who look down on others, but she, by equating tattoos and leather/lycra/latex, if that was the thought behind the party theme, is no different, even with having many tattoo herself.

Leah is clearly an oxymoron.  She's so quick to criticize the UES lifestyle when, imo, it is what she really craves, but will never achieve.  

I'm so over her and her blatant, over the top behaviors, flat out rudeness and phony lifestyle.  

I'm wondering if Leah was not on the show, would Eboni be as preachy/teachy?  I think Eboni gets confidence from Leah being her pitbull, so that is why she continues to preach.  Perhaps if Leah wasn't so agressive as a "back-up" for Eboni, Eboni would lighten up a little and have some fun.

[Feech]

Eboni is a true believer.

She doesn’t need some hipster douche to encourage her to spew racialist invective and woke buzzwords.

Eboni is authentic if nothing else.

[RedDelicious]

6 hours ago, byrd said:

Yes, a true Moron Ramona is !! She's perfectly happy to embrace that title. She doesn't give a shit . Remember Ramona's Ex-husband had money and after she joined the show I believe that's where her entrepreneurship began to flourish, started with her Pinot Grigio wines.  

Ramona is a self-made woman and her money does not come from pinot grigio 😉

Ramona started a company called RMS Fashions, Inc. According to Bustle, Ramona's dad gave her $70,000 with the idea that she would become an entrepreneur. Ramona was 30 at the time and started RMS Fashions, Inc. When retailers have too much inventory, the company purchases it and then has discount stores buy it.

Bustle reported that Ramona was able to give her dad back that money after a month.

The publication also says that Ramona attended Fashion Institute of Technology and even worked 30-hour work weeks and got a student loan when her dad wouldn't pay for it. Although he did give her cash to put toward her company, he wasn't supportive of her getting a bachelor's degree in business.

Ramona and Mario married six years after she started what became RMS Fashions. True Faith, TruRenewal and Ramona Pinot Grigio were projects that she worked on and marketed through her presence on Housewives.

I admire her entrepreneurial spirit and her work ethic but also her good time personality. She should have gotten the twins and the fortune teller to Turtle Time with her.  That would have been infinitely more entertaining than what the producers gave us!

[Avaleigh]

7 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I'm wondering if Leah was not on the show, would Eboni be as preachy/teachy?  I think Eboni gets confidence from Leah being her pitbull, so that is why she continues to preach.  Perhaps if Leah wasn't so agressive as a "back-up" for Eboni, Eboni would lighten up a little and have some fun.

I've thought about this too but since we've seen Eboni do the preachy/teachy stuff when Leah wasn't present (most recently at Ramona's apartment), I'm inclined to think that she would have brought this dynamic to the table whether Leah was present or not. She does it in her THs too so I don't think she needed Leah's support/encouragement to go down this road. Even Leah for all of her (many) faults seems to be getting the message that Eboni is coming across to the group as pretty one note.

[ichbin]

14 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I think Eboni gets confidence from Leah being her pitbull, so that is why she continues to preach.

I think she probably gets a lot of smoke blown up her ass by her producer, which is probably the case with all of them across the franchises.  

[Feech]

It is quite ironic that the more Eboni preaches her racialist message the more the woman and the audience leave the table.

Eboni and irony.

Living together in perfect harmony.

[Avaleigh]

4 minutes ago, ichbin said:

I think she probably gets a lot of smoke blown up her ass by her producer, which is probably the case with all of them across the franchises.  

I haven't entirely discounted the idea that producers are part of the reason for why the show has gone in this direction. As this season has gone on, I'm curious if Eboni has walked back any of what she's said via social media or other interviews or if she's just doubling down on some of the more controversial stuff she's put out there this season.

I wonder if she likes what she sees in terms of the editing or if she's surprised by how heavy handed she's been with the race related conversations now that she's seeing it play out onscreen. This episode had to have made her cringe on some level, right?

[Maximona]

Systemic racism is a really hard thing to explain to a group of women like the NY Housewives, most of whom have had to game the system to a significant degree to get where they are today. 

I mean, Ramona is the child of immigrants (and it's very possible that English was not her first language), LuAnn grew up in a working class family in Connecticut etc, etc.  I'm sure their first thought when someone starts lecturing them on "priviege" is, Well, nobody handed me a damn thing.  

They don't honestly understand the fact that characters in the books they read as kids are the same color as they are or that authorities of all kinds will automatically view them more favorably than people with darker skin is a pernicious kind of racism embedded in social institutions.

I think if Eboni was clearer on the distinctions between personal racism and systemic racism, she might have a more receptive audience.  As it is, I think Ramona, Lu et al feel like they're being accused of behaivng in ways they honestly don't believe they behave.

[Haute Messe]

17 hours ago, njbchlover said:

I agree!!  My mouth dropped open when I heard Eboni say that.  If she had used different words, maybe "white elitist", I wouldn't have been so offended.  That could have been a conversation that didn't go wrong.  Ramona, Sonja and Luann (and even Leah, with her sudden need for a hair/makeup artist at all times, hiring a high school entrance counselor and a Chanel logo tattooed on her hand) all live in an elitist environment.  Eboni couldn't use the word "elitist", because she also has benefitted from living the same lifestyle.

News to Eboni and Leah - it is no one's fucking business who voted for whom and why.  That is part of the reason why our country is so divided.  Everyone feels they needed to know who voted for whom, and if someone chose not to disclose that information, it was/is assumed that person voted opposite of the person wanting to know.  

Ramona was 1,0000% correct in leaving that conversation.  She knew she was going to get ripped into by Leah (who's like a rabid dog) and Eboni may have questioned her a little too much than Ramona would be comfortable with.  Ramona seems to be a smart businesswoman, but I also think she may not be super informed when it comes to politics (although I don't know, because she never talks about it, nor should she), so I can understand her not wanting to discuss her voting choice.  She may have voted based on one or two things that were important to her - as most Americans do.  AND, NEWSFLASH to Eboni and Leah - she is allowed her choice without having to explain or justify it!!!! 

EDITED TO ADD:  Eboni can just shut up with her stupid justifications of her wrong use of words.  Just because someone voted for Trump, does not make them a white supremacist, or means they align themselves with white supremacists.  You could also say that if violent gang members, rapists or other criminals (depending on the state and laws on whether criminals can vote or not) voted for someone that you did, does that make you a violent gang member, rapist or criminal, or does that mean you align with their actions?  

I'm also not 100% convinced that Sonja and Luann didn't vote opposite the way Eboni thinks they may have - they are just better at keeping things close to the vest than Ramona is.  And, in Sonja's case, I'm not even sure she voted at all!!  Sonja plays on both side of the fence, just as Luann said.  What's good for Sonja at the time is what she'll lie and swear to, so depending on whom Sonja is talking to, she may have voted either way.  Again - it's no one's fucking business!!  

Either way, Leah and Eboni are so fucking annoying with all of their preaching and lecturing.  (Well, Leah is more about screaming at and belittling Ramona), they really are making this show unwatchable.

I do like Bershan, though.  She seems genuinely fun! 

All of this.

It is absolutely nobody's business to ask or make assumptions as to how someone voted. Isn't that why it's done by secret ballot? It is height of rudeness but I wouldn't expect any less from the gauche Ms. Edgy Leah, who thinks it imakes her cool to label the others as either a karen or a boomer. 

I have previously had a bit of a soft spot for Sonja, even after some of her horrendous behaviour and horrid treatment of others because I think she has some issues, or is at the very least extremely insecure and is her own worst enemy. But I am done with her flip flopping to stay relevant.  She has no loyalty or even appreciation for anything Ramona, Luanne, or even Bethenny have done to help or support her. I would not be sorry to see her go, along with Leah and Eboni (unless she changes her tune altogether).

1 minute ago, Avaleigh said:

I haven't entirely discounted the idea that producers are part of the reason for why the show has gone in this direction. As this season has gone on, I'm curious if Eboni has walked back any of what she's said via social media or other interviews or if she's just doubling down on some of the more controversial stuff she's put out there this season.

I wonder if she likes what she sees in terms of the editing or if she's surprised by how heavy handed she's been with the race related conversations now that she's seeing it play out onscreen. This episode had to have made her cringe on some level, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if the producers actually think that the audience wants to be saturated with all this woke bullshit. When in fact people are getting fed up with it.

I wish I had the fortitude to cancel this recording from my PVR after all these years, but I might need the help of a twelve step program to go through with it. Ugh.

[SemiCharmedLife]

58 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

And, there is another issue with Leah. If that was the case, Leah is equating tattoos to someone who dresses in a certain way, a way that can be seen as trashy or sluttish to certain people.  So many people have tattoos now - in fact, I remember reading a while ago that more adults in America have at least one tattoo than those who have none.  So that means people from all walks of life and all manners and style of dress.  Preppy/professional style, hipsters, bohemian/hippie, high fashion, etc.

Leah is so good at screaming at the other women (specifically Ramona) about how they live in their bubble, basically calling them rich white snobs who look down on others, but she, by equating tattoos and leather/lycra/latex, if that was the thought behind the party theme, is no different, even with having many tattoo herself.

Leah is clearly an oxymoron.  She's so quick to criticize the UES lifestyle when, imo, it is what she really craves, but will never achieve.  

I'm so over her and her blatant, over the top behaviors, flat out rudeness and phony lifestyle.  

I'm wondering if Leah was not on the show, would Eboni be as preachy/teachy?  I think Eboni gets confidence from Leah being her pitbull, so that is why she continues to preach.  Perhaps if Leah wasn't so agressive as a "back-up" for Eboni, Eboni would lighten up a little and have some fun.

I actually don't know if that was Leah's intention or not.  Maybe I am the one who thought the two ideas fit together.  My apologies.

[charliesan]

5 minutes ago, lizajane said:

I wish I had the fortitude to cancel this recording from my PVR after all these years, but I might need the help of a twelve step program to go through with it. Ugh.

Same, it's like Ramona, LuAnn and Sonja are part of my tv family, we've been together for 13 years, they're my insane, larger than life aunties. 

I doubt Ramona will ever go full Ramona against Eboni and LuAnn will probably remain quiet for the rest of the season, I bet they're both scared of coming off as racists while Sonja will continue to side with Leah/Eboni. 

 

[Stats Queen]

6 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

With Eboni I want to go all Tyra Banks on her because I was totally rooting for her initially and now I spend my time alternating between feeling embarrassed and annoyed every time she's onscreen. 

 

[lamujerdecente]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It was sooooooo funny when Sonja ordered clams, and then I think Eboni was really caught off guard, and ordered a water?  Hahahahhahahahah.  What a contrast!

i think Eboni just saw how Sonja eats regularly,on someone else's dime. 

[tranquilidade]

It seems to me that Bravo brought Eboni on board to show how shallow the housewives are - by the way is anyone there a housewife? The whole concept is dead on the vine. 

Newsflash to Bravo; we already noticed that they are are superficial and sadly shallow and we noticed it   years ago.  We forgave them and kept watching.  No need to crucify them for lack of depth or substance, as we don't expect any substance or depth from anything on Bravo.  For crying out loud it is superficial entertainment and stop trying to make it something else unless you really mean it.  

Eboni acts like she was told to keep trying to make make Ramona and Luanne say something politically incorrect so they can be hung out to dry.   There is nothing honest or genuine in  it because it  is all about entrapment.  These shows were shockingly segregated for years and suddenly Bravo wants to fix this.  That is more interesting than anything Eboni has to say. 

 

 

 

[Keywestclubkid]

3 hours ago, For Cereals said:

That’s the thing, I swear we’ve seen the dumbing down of Sonja from when she was first introduced on the show.  I remember them setting up her as having the same cache as Countess Luann at the time.  I would rewatch but I don’t care that much.

The very first scene ever of her on this show she’s talking about moving on from the past … she’s talking to Luanne about donating clothes .. and I need to move on from the past. How many years does that make it now? lol 

[lamujerdecente]

44 minutes ago, Maximona said:

Systemic racism is a really hard thing to explain to a group of women like the NY Housewives, most of whom have had to game the system to a significant degree to get where they are today. 

I mean, Ramona is the child of immigrants (and it's very possible that English was not her first language), LuAnn grew up in a working class family in Connecticut etc, etc.  I'm sure their first thought when someone starts lecturing them on "priviege" is, Well, nobody handed me a damn thing.  

They don't honestly understand the fact that characters in the books they read as kids are the same color as they are or that authorities of all kinds will automatically view them more favorably than people with darker skin is a pernicious kind of racism embedded in social institutions.

I think if Eboni was clearer on the distinctions between personal racism and systemic racism, she might have a more receptive audience.  As it is, I think Ramona, Lu et al feel like they're being accused of behaivng in ways they honestly don't believe they behave.

THIS. Everything Eboni is saying is not false or coming out of left field. Eboni isn't a native New Yorker or HArlemer but I am. I didn't go to school with a white person until I went to High School and that is because I went to a Catholic School in the upper east side not the zone school of my neighborhood. New York City is one of the Blackest Cities in America and one of the most diverse but you wouldn't know it by the school system. I strongly feel this season is VERY SCRIPTED. 

I really think a lot of it was Covid, everything had to be planned and things don't feel organic, Beverly Hills too.

Leah is just the worst at clothing. I say it every week and every week she defies my expectation. I want to smack Sonja for her antics but i always crack up at her trying to get some fancy for free. She had to order Clams or oysters with her coffee (that sounds truly gross to me but then again she drinks Rose and Coke so I digress) because she's eclectic, Lady MORGAN U is BROKE. Own it. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

48 minutes ago, Maximona said:

I think if Eboni was clearer on the distinctions between personal racism and systemic racism, she might have a more receptive audience.  As it is, I think Ramona, Lu et al feel like they're being accused of behaivng in ways they honestly don't believe they behave.

That's a very interesting way of putting it.

I really really really wanted to like Eboni on the show, but I'm flabbergasted at the execution of her ideas.  I have no idea why she thought this particular party was a good time to get into who voted for who.

Remember Andy brought this up at the Reunion? Do you know the political candidates for office, and if so how?  And all of the women answered.  It was FASCINATING.  But it's a time and a place thing!  It's literally a question and answer period, and the women knew they'd be interviewed, it's not a party.

I love to talk to my friends about important issues but 1) these women are not friends, they are coworkers, 2) there is a time and a place and doing it in one big group is just a recipe for disaster, 3) doing it at a party with alcohol is also a disaster, 4) you have to be willing to have a back and forth.  You have to be willing to listen, instead of talking at someone.

Eboni might as well be talking to a brick wall.  In the same way that I think Leah should respect Ramona not wanting to talk about sex at certain times/places, I think you should respect if someone doesn't want to talk about politics at certain times/places.  Not because you agree with them, but because you might as well be talking to a brick wall.  

Eboni is 100% correct that she cannot ignore race as a topic in her life.  I get that and I get a lot of the things she's saying.  But I'm particularly ready to hear what she's saying.  If I was at a party with her and she cornered me I think I'd be really confused.  

[Persnickety1]

15 minutes ago, lamujerdecente said:

i think Eboni just saw how Sonja eats regularly,on someone else's dime. 

Flashback to Sonja's meltdown when Cindy Barshop had to cancel lunch at Cipriano because she broke a tooth.  Sonja had probably been looking forward to that free lunch for days and Cindy's damned broken tooth ruined it for her!  😂

After watching this episode, I've concluded Sonja is the Rinna of Beverly Hills...no loyalty to anyone except that Bravo paycheck (and the free meals that come with it).

[WhatAmIWatching]

6 hours ago, lamujerdecente said:

Being aligned with white supremacy is not just wearing a hood or chanting racist slurs, its everything to keeping a school district segregated to red lining suburbs to sub par schools for POC neighborhoods. I cant even begin to explain this because it is a deep and complicated subject. 

Thank you for this! I was confused over her 'aligned with white supremacy' comment and just talked to my young niece, and her group of friends, and just learned what you wrote in your great comment (where I snipped this part.) 

 I'm also starting to wonder if some of the wording issues are generational? A lot of words and phrases have different meanings now, which is throwing me a little, and feels a bit like the goal posts moved. I'm trying to keep up!  Like on RHoBH where Crystal brought in the 'you don't see color' comment. That was said with disdain, but it really was what we were taught to do, back in the olden days; that all people were equal. The melting pot we were taught is now wrong, because that doesn't allow people to keep their individual, cultural identities, and so on... It's a lot to take in and process.

  How Bravo has presented all this feels even more performative than Leah is behaving, and that's saying a lot. The way Leah is attacking instead of listening or guiding seems like it would cause someone to dig their heels, instead of reevaluate and make changes, or even want to learn and see things from a different perspective. Idk.

 

6 hours ago, Feech said:

To ascribe negative hateful attributes to an entire race of people without respect to their individual beliefs and/or actions is in fact the definition of racism

I hear what you're saying, but black people cannot be racist to whites. They can be prejudiced against them, or discriminatory toward them, but not racist. Black people do not hold racial power; white people do. It's not just about skin color. The lens has to be widened to take in where the power lies, the system, and hierarchy of society.

[ichbin]

1 hour ago, lizajane said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the producers actually think that the audience wants to be saturated with all this woke bullshit. When in fact people are getting fed up with it.

I think the influence of the combination of 2020 events (Race/Politics/Covid) caused producers to lose sight of the reason people watch these shows. Let's face it, viewers aren't looking for people just like themselves and real life problems. If anything, my guess is that more are looking for an escape from that. Throw in some ego issues of people involved seeking to make a mark and we're in the middle of this crappy season.

By the way, I've been checking in on a popular African American forum with an active RHoNY community and it's been interesting to see the majority of posters seem to want to like Eboni but are also fed up with the constant lecturing, as well as Leah's antics.  

 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, tranquilidade said:

Eboni acts like she was told to keep trying to make make Ramona and Luanne say something politically incorrect so they can be hung out to dry.   There is nothing honest or genuine in  it because it  is all about entrapment.  These shows were shockingly segregated for years and suddenly Bravo wants to fix this.  That is more interesting than anything Eboni has to say.

Eboni is a pretty bad way to get them to do that since it seems like they rarely get to participate in a two-part conversation with her and never seem to end up understanding anything more about what she was lecturing about then they knew before. 

Meanwhile, when left to her own devices Luanne shows up in an afro wig and brownface to honor Diana Ross 1930s-style!

I really loved listening to the woman at the hotel--just for her accent, which was fabulous. That place looked beautiful. There is something funny about how Leah seems like she considers herself the radical one for having several tattoos when that's...not very unsual at all.

 

[NoWhammies]

I hated this episode for so many reasons, from Leah's faux performative "spirituality" and "antiracism" (I see you Leah...you're trying too hard for a reason...I'm not sure what you're ashamed of about yourself, but clearly you have some deep, dark shit hidden in your shadows you're trying to deflect from) to everyone's (except maybe Bershan who seems cool) screeching, lecturing, faux outrage, and just lack of compassion for each other or for anyone whose experience is slightly different from theirs. Honestly if they'd all just shut the fuck up and actually try to hear what the other was saying, they may be able to understand each other, but they'd all rather just hear the sound of their own voices. Every damn one of them.

None of these women have even tried to understand one another because frankly they don't give a shit about each other or really seemingly anyone besides themselves. It's a dangerous game to paint any "group" of people with a broad brush, whether it's religious affiliation, political alignment, race, skin color, sexual orientation, gender identity, body size, fashion sense, ability, or anything else. And that's what they're all doing. Painting each other with a broad brush instead of simply having a conversation and trying to see and hear the human being standing in front of them. FFS, ladies (and I use that term loosely), just talk to each other. Listen. Witness. Hear each other's truth. Listen more than you speak. Realize you can't browbeat anyone into being the way you think they should be, no matter how righteous your cause seems to be or even is.

Seriously - we've all just forgot how to treat one another like human beings, and this show is the ugliest representation of that. I'm over it. So much projection going on in this group. So much trying to control what other people think of them - or what they think in general. 

Also, as someone named Karen, I'm not fond of Leah's constant use of the term "Karen." I've had a lot of people try to use my name to silence and control me whenever I try to gently enforce even the most reasonable of boundaries simply because that's my name, so I'm over name calling of any type. These women use name calling as a way to try and control, shame, and silence people into behaving as they want them to. It is cruel. It is unkind. It is lacking in compassion. It is marginalizing and dehumanizing. And it is complete and utter bullshit. 

Annnnd rant over. I'm pretty much done watching this shit show. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by NoWhammies

[Ms Blue Jay]

47 minutes ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

I'm also starting to wonder if some of the wording issues are generational? A lot of words and phrases have different meanings now, which is throwing me a little, and feels a bit like the goal posts moved. I'm trying to keep up!  Like on RHoBH where Crystal brought in the 'you don't see color' comment. That was said with disdain, but it really was what we were taught to do, back in the olden days; that all people were equal. The melting pot we were taught is now wrong, because that doesn't allow people to keep their individual, cultural identities, and so on... It's a lot to take in and process.

I was never taught this in school so I can't help but be curious.  In fact, I was actively taught that the melting pot idea is harmful.  Was this melting pot theory taught in multiracial schools?  Or just schools with mostly white children?  Because if it's the latter, maybe you can see why it's no longer taught?  People keep bringing it up but..... I feel like that idea is no longer useful?  I feel like that melting pot idea cannot be that new.  I didn't go to elementary school recently, this was decades ago.  So is it really a case of trying to keep up at this point?  

Edited July 7, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[njbchlover]

2 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

I actually don't know if that was Leah's intention or not.  Maybe I am the one who thought the two ideas fit together.  My apologies.

No apologies necessary!!!  It wouldn't surprise me if that was her intent.

Either it was that, or Leah just wanted to pretend to be NY's version of Erika Jayne with the outrageous outfits.  Except, even when Erika wears something risque, she still manages to look fashionable (questionably fashionable, but still fashionable). 

Leah just looks like a try-hard with everything she wears.  

[chlban]

6 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

That's a good point.  Because these HWs don't listen to anything/anyone.    Thinking that the witch trials  (1600s) actually took place in a hotel they were just told was built in the 1920s must be beyond frustrating. 

Hey Portia Williams, granddaughter of a respected civil rights Leader, thought the Underground railroad was an actual railroad so....stuff like this just highlights that people don't watch the Housewives to be educated. We would have to be a dumb as they are to do that.

Edited July 7, 2021 by chlban

[LemonSoda]

18 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

Ramona doesn't want to deface her body with a tattoo, but she's not opposed to updating her facial features from time to time...

Tattoo removal is painful! A new face? It’s worth the pain 😂

[Bossa Nova]

4 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Ramona is a self-made woman and her money does not come from pinot grigio 😉

Ramona started a company called RMS Fashions, Inc. According to Bustle, Ramona's dad gave her $70,000 with the idea that she would become an entrepreneur. Ramona was 30 at the time and started RMS Fashions, Inc. When retailers have too much inventory, the company purchases it and then has discount stores buy it.

Bustle reported that Ramona was able to give her dad back that money after a month.

The publication also says that Ramona attended Fashion Institute of Technology and even worked 30-hour work weeks and got a student loan when her dad wouldn't pay for it. Although he did give her cash to put toward her company, he wasn't supportive of her getting a bachelor's degree in business.

Ramona and Mario married six years after she started what became RMS Fashions. True Faith, TruRenewal and Ramona Pinot Grigio were projects that she worked on and marketed through her presence on Housewives.

I admire her entrepreneurial spirit and her work ethic but also her good time personality. She should have gotten the twins and the fortune teller to Turtle Time with her.  That would have been infinitely more entertaining than what the producers gave us!

Hand up here. Crossed paths with Ramona way back.....

In the late 80's I worked on 7th Avenue, NYC. The heart of the fashion wholesale district.

All the top designers had showrooms there, where retail buyers would come and look at collections.....and buy for their stores. I was an entry level sales exec. 

My sales manager at the time, would deal with certain accounts that would come in to purchase leftover inventory (not us low level green execs). One of them was: (drum roll) RMS Fashions.

Ramona came into the showroom periodically to do just that. I recall seeing her and her assistant. She was nice and low key. Thats all I got to say except that, I appreciate her making a very good living from her business. She was smart and savvy and in the late 80's  Ramona was positioned just right for the time in terms of commercial fashion and retailers.. 

 

  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Bossa Nova

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, Bossa Nova said:

Ramona's dad gave her $70,000 with the idea that she would become an entrepreneur. Ramona was 30 at the time and started RMS Fashions, Inc. W

I am not suggesting that Ramona has worked hard and built her own wealth but when your father gifts you $70k to start a business you aren’t “self made”.

Edited July 8, 2021 by biakbiak

[RedDelicious]

23 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I am not suggesting that Ramona has worked hard and built her own wealth but when your father gifts you $70k to start a business you aren’t “self made”.

I don’t agree. She worked and paid her own way through college. Whether she got a loan from a bank or a loan from her dad doesn’t matter. It was a bridge loan and she paid it back a month later. A loan is an agreement, not a “gift”. That’s self-made enough for me.

Edited July 8, 2021 by RedDelicious

[Bluesky]

I still don’t get what Eboni thinks she’s teaching.   The best way for people from different cultures and races is to start making friends with people from different places.  Much more interesting if they talked about where they grew up, what personal experiences they’ve had, racist relatives, etc.   That’s how you learn from each other and it’s not a one way street.   

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

loan is an agreement, not a “gift”. 

The piece you quoted literally used gift/gave twice. Made no mention of a loan or payback terms. Getting a loan from a bank is infinitely harder then getting it from a parent and that is privilege and access that was able to help her get started that many, many people do not have.

Edited July 8, 2021 by biakbiak