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S01.E04: The Nexus Event

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9 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Plus all that build up for Lamentis to go down in flames just for the TVA to conveniently show up to the rescue?  There was a slight implication that Loki and Sylvie would try save the people of Lamentis and Loki was actually worried about them.  But no, TVA shows up and all is well.  And unless it shows up next week, it doesn't look like anyone was being enchanted, despite Loki and Sylvie talking about it the whole episode.  I knew Loki and Sylvie would make it off the doomed rock but why focus so much on the planet just to axe it 5 minutes into the next episode?  Stuff like this feels like they're rushing things for the sake of plot, not logic.  They introduced a lot but don't have enough time to flesh it out.  I know it's not their fault, but this should have been 8-10 episodes.image.png

The point of Lamentis was as a stage for the developing relationship between the Lokis.  We got some details about the setting because that's a necessity for any one-episode locale.  I don't think there's anything rushed about that.

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8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Her not remembering what Sylvie did to warrant getting taken back then reminded of that scene from the "so bad, it's almost good" Street Fighter movie,

I think Ravonna's evil, self-satisfied smile right before she said it, indicated that she did in fact, remember but she knew that not telling Sylvie would hurt her, so Ravonna chose to do that instead.  That's also the moment that made me feel that Ravonna is enjoying hurting and controlling/manipulating people (like Mobius), and that puts her in the 'evil' camp for me. Especially contrasting that with the scene with Loki earlier when he admitted that he didn't enjoy hurting people (whether you believe him or not. I do believe him.)

 

I agree with this take on what caused Sylvie to be taken:

 

The TVA needed a Loki that felt alone and miserable and lashed out, causing chaos in his wake. And that's what they engineered. I suspect Loki realizing that he didn't have to be that Loki is partly why the branch started to happen on Lamentis, but still... why? They were about to be obliterated, why would that cause a branch??? 

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On 6/30/2021 at 7:48 AM, IWantCandy71 said:

The best parts of this show remain the Mobius/Loki interactions.

"Grow up"

"No, you grow up". I was grinning the whole time.

I guess both Mobius and Loki are alive, but what kind of big bad doesn't kill you outright ? That's just asking for trouble.

Mobius - "No wonder you have no clue on what caused the Nexus event on Lamentis - both of you were just swooning over each other.... What an incredible seismic narcissistist.  You fell for yourself."

This is got to be one of the funniest exchanges on tv I have seen.

Ah Loki - Of course you would fall in love with another version of yourself.                   

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9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Since I doubt they were actually going to kill Loki on a show called Loki, I'm glad they already revealed what happened to him in the mid credits.

 

For a hot second, I actually thought they would and that the rest of the show would follow Sylvie as the title 'Loki'.  Although I can't say I'm a huge fan of Sylvie, it would defiantly embrace the spirit of unpredictability that is the essence of "a Loki."  So, I was really happy the mid-credits scene showed our Loki is still around (somewhere).  

Strongest episode of the season. Loki admitting to Time Loop Sif that he is the architect of his misery was heartbreaking. Much as he tried to brush it off afterwards ("I had a bath and a drink!"), he was really hurt by her saying he will always be alone and it's something he's been carrying with him for a looooooooong time.

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1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

Mobius - "No wonder you have no clue on what caused the Nexus event on Lamentis - both of you were just swooning over each other.... What an incredible seismic narcissistist.  You fell for yourself."

This is got to be one of the funniest exchanges on tv I have seen.

Ah Loki - Of course you would fall in love with another version of yourself.                   

I'd rather see him fall for Mobius-'who better NOT be sincerely dead--just so I could maybe watch Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson mack a little bit. 

Edited by luna1122
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 suspect Loki realizing that he didn't have to be that Loki is partly why the branch started to happen on Lamentis, but still... why? They were about to be obliterated, why would that cause a branch??? 

Well, Mobius thinks it is because they are pure chaos and were basically feeding each other, plus, the TVA had their sensors on extra-sensitive. But maybe, it is even more simple: Since the TVA would never risk leaving them there, they would always be rescued eventually, and it is actually the rescue which will cause the spike. 

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If the TVA were watching this, they would have decided at about 1:45 or so that this was the true nexus event that needed to result in Sylvie‘s pruning…

 

Edited by tkc
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For me this was the best episode so far.

I agree with others that said it looked like they let young Sylvie escape. Maybe it was just they way they shot the scene but everyone just stood there and watched.

Yeah, where Loki ended up looked liked a destroyed NY city. I wonder where Mobius ended up?

Now I really think Ravonna is working with whomever is in charge.

Someone please explain this to me. I thought Dr. Strange was the watcher of the timeline?

 

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Dr. Strange protects the realm, not the timeline. That isn't quite the same. 

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15 hours ago, kickingnames said:

Hunter B-15 turned out to be awesome — her determination to know the truth and act on it ends up saving the very people she’d wanted been out to get. But I’m gonna need them to bring Mobius back asap. Not cool, man. I was a little bummed about his death until Loki got disintegrated. Surely he too can come back from wherever he ended up. 

I love the actress, Wunmi Mosaku, who plays Hunter B-12.  She was amazing in Lovecraft Country.

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Lots of movement this episode, but still seems to be too much to resolve in two episodes, especially now that they've added an additional mystery in what actually happens to the pruned, and whatever it is the new Lokis are doing.

I'm not exactly sure how Loki came to consider Mobius such a friend that he'd be visibly devastated at his (apparent) death. That was why I thought at first that was an illusion, but clearly not the case. But I guess Loki is so resigned to being alone that he latched onto the closest he could find. 

If there's one lesson to be learned from these Marvel Studios shows, it's that the female partner/best friend is not to be trusted.

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7 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

I think Ravonna's evil, self-satisfied smile right before she said it, indicated that she did in fact, remember but she knew that not telling Sylvie would hurt her, so Ravonna chose to do that instead.  That's also the moment that made me feel that Ravonna is enjoying hurting and controlling/manipulating people (like Mobius), and that puts her in the 'evil' camp for me. Especially contrasting that with the scene with Loki earlier when he admitted that he didn't enjoy hurting people (whether you believe him or not. I do believe him.)

 

I agree with this take on what caused Sylvie to be taken:

 

The TVA needed a Loki that felt alone and miserable and lashed out, causing chaos in his wake. And that's what they engineered. I suspect Loki realizing that he didn't have to be that Loki is partly why the branch started to happen on Lamentis, but still... why? They were about to be obliterated, why would that cause a branch??? 

 

"Our" Loki played out "save Asgard" sometimes. As a kid in the Thor 1 flashbacks he wanted to be it's protector and King but let his own jealousy of Thor get in the way of everything. Sylvie never had the chance to get jealous of Thor, she might have if she'd stayed. A lot of the time he's been convinced he'd be a *better* King than Thor and that was his justification for everything (although Ragnarok proved he'd waste that opportunity). He wanted to fight against Ragnarok until Thor realised he had to let Surtur destroy Asgard to destroy Hela. 

I don't think hurting people is Loki's primary goal, (he'd rather they just do what he said with no argument) but I do think he has enjoyed it sometimes. He was relishing the pain he was causing in Avengers, emotional, physical and forcing people to do his bidding. 

Loki was originally alone and miserable because HE deliberately started an invasion of a planet Thor loved for the sole purpose of upsetting him, working with Thanos was a by product of that. If he hadn't been trying to escape justice for murdering hundreds of thousands in the BONY then he wouldn't have been a variant in the first place. 

The TVA is horrific and is/was definitely using him for their own ends and wanted him to feel like he had no place else to go but work for them or get "reset" but the circumstances of him ending up there are on him. In the "sacred timeline" he basically starts complaining about his punishment and his consequences (Frigga etc) happen more to other people. 

I am glad that Loki is admitting that he is the architect of his own misery and having to do things like watch his own life is a fairly devastating consequence.

 

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My work life is crazy busy and challenging.  The calendar says my moon cycle is 'a coming.  All of this to say that I'm in a place as a human. So, Mobius and Loki BOTH getting pruned 100% got me in the feels.  I was genuinely upset in both regards.

I don't know what to make of Loki and Sylvie.  The actors do a nice job on conveying a layered relationship being built.  Is it love (as the showrunners have stated)?  Is it deep, trusting friendship?  Personally, I would like them to have some stakes with each other as friends before it goes somewhere romantic.  I think Lokis need to learn to love themselves and own the vulnerability of loving someone else without motive.  But, there are different types of love.  I see Sylvie as Sylvie and not Loki (I think their differences were made clear in little Sylvie's outlook and behavior...gosh that little actress is AMAZING), but the whole thing is minorly squishy. LOL. 

I like that we have the development of this Loki figuring out that he is the cause of much of his own problems, and his need to be cared for and to be accepted has caused him to take actions that push ppl away.  Knowing that this Loki won't live thru The Dark World, Ragnorak, or IW, I like that he is still learning some lessons like this.  I was worried at where this Loki would be (still angry after Avengers with the meglo complex) compared to Loki Prime.  They have taken care of my concerns really well. I'll say that it seems to me that Loki was never all bad...he fought by his brother's side a number of times. 

I appreciate that both Mobius and Hunter 15 caught onto what the Lokis had to say relatively quickly.  In general, I like the pacing and clip of characters figuring out that that are sometimes drawn out. I like how well Mobius thought it through and didn't let it go...his gut was saying something and I think he intrinsically believed Loki. Also, I would kill to know what Hunter 15 saw in her memories. That actress, who I adored in Lovecraft Country, has taken a small role and shined on.   I knew Loki needed stakes and I hope that Mobius is somewhere with other Mobius-es?  Mobi?  LOL.  B/c I enjoyed so thoroughly the return of the Loki/Mobius dynamic.  

Regardless of reasoning, Ravonna's actions and whomever is seem really terrible.  The TVA are taking variants, wiping them, and having them be slave labor to do the same to other variants. This is fucked up. What she did to 20 was awful! What she did to Mobius was heartbreaking!  I know part of the theme of this show is that identity and who people are are shades of gray and nuanced, but she seems to have quite a bit of red on her ledger (to borrow a phrase).  I enjoyed the look and feel of the android Timekeepers team...comic book accurate looks. Can't wait for that to continue to unfold.

I was SHOCKED as shit to see the 4 Loki!  Bruh.  They look amazing.  Randomly - my alumni is the University of Florida. Our mascot is the alligator, so I cheered when I saw the weird as hell alligator Loki!

P.S. Tom Hiddleston is bae all day. I need him to not leave the screen for so long again.  I've missed him, and his earnest, excellent acting. 

Edited by TrininisaScorp
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20 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

"Our" Loki played out "save Asgard" sometimes. As a kid in the Thor 1 flashbacks he wanted to be it's protector and King but let his own jealousy of Thor get in the way of everything. 

Our Loki definitely made choices that's he's responsible for (I think that was the point of what Mobius said to him, it's never too late to be a better person), but one of the other things that was different for Sylvie was that she knew at a young age that she was adopted.

So she was treated differently than Loki was, even as a child. I'm not saying he isn't responsible for his actions, but it's being heavily implied that the TVA is creating the environment to get the outcomes that they want, no matter how many tries and tweaks it takes. And eventually, they got their completed desired 'Catalyst Loki' outcome, culminating in one that ended up sacrificing himself quietly & ineffectively, trying to save himself and others.

The TVA are building the walls of the maze their subjects are forced to travel through. "Loki" has obviously made a lot of "unsuitable" choices since there are so many variants. 

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This episode was certainly bringing the action and I will say that it's my favourite episode to date. I started off wary of the show, and have grown to quickly love it as much as I loved WandaVision. 

Loki and Sylvie are certainly an interesting pairing. I wonder if Mobius was right on the money about there being a romantic connection that led to the split, or if it's something deeper. Even if he is completely right about Loki and Sylvie's romantic entanglement, it actually makes sense as to why it would cause a big enough rift for the TVA to notice.

Seeing Little Lady Loki at the beginning was a great way to showcase Sylvie as a child and how she is different from what the TVA is portraying her as. The TVA is being set up as the perfect villains, and with all of these twists that happened in this episode, it's unclear how deep their plans really go. The reveal of the robotic Time Keepers makes some sense to me, as I didn't expect the Time Keepers to let themselves be vulnerable like that, not when they still don't trust either Loki. So I assume the real Time Keepers are still out there and hidden away.

And with them sparing Loki long enough to take him there, I assume they have more plans for both Lokis and they weren't going to prune them right then and there.

Poor Mobius. I will say, they got me good when he unexpectedly got pruned right then and there. If not for the end scene with Loki getting pruned, I would have believed that this would have been the true end of Mobius. But alas, there's still hope!

I'm glad we got B-15 on Sylvie's side immediately. I like that Mobius came around.

Ravonna, I still think is higher up in her position than she leads to believe. Either way, knowing that she knows a lot more than she leads on to everyone else was a great way of upping the stakes, especially ordering the kill on someone she said was a friend. 

Lady Sif cameo! That was a pleasant surprise!

Overall, looking forward to the next two episodes. I can't even begin to fathom how this season concludes.

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12 hours ago, SeanC said:

The point of Lamentis was as a stage for the developing relationship between the Lokis.  We got some details about the setting because that's a necessity for any one-episode locale.  I don't think there's anything rushed about that.

It felt like a cheap framing device.  I'm fine with Loki and Sylvie bonding, but I wish it hadn't been implied that they could possibly save Lamentis, even if they were only trying to save themselves. 

The Pompeii scene worked because it was brief and while Loki was practically giddy with excitement, Mobius reminded him that they were there for a reason, and that it was poor taste to be openly celebrating.  

But they spent a whole episode on Lamentis, showing the citizens who were struggling to survive.  I knew Loki and Sylvie would make it, but it happens so fast, no muss, no fuss and Lamentis isn't mentioned again.  And for me, it just felt gross that all that suffering and terror was meant to be the backdrop for some pseudo-romance or friendship between two people who already had the upper hand in escaping.  Lamentis could have been completely deserted rock and the outcome between Loki and Sylvie would have been the same.

Edited by Amethyst · Reason: too long
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4 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

Randomly - my alumni is the University of Florida. Our mascot is the alligator, so I cheered when I saw the weird as hell alligator Loki!

 

Go Gators!  (Ahem). That is all. ; )

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1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Lamentis could have been completely deserted rock and the outcome between Loki and Sylvie would have been the same.

If it was a completely deserted rock there wouldn't have been much for the characters to do while there.

I don't recall any implication that they were trying to save Lamentis. They were looking for an escape, nothing more.

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Man those hunters suck at fighting with those pruning sticks. I mean if the end is able to erase anything it comes in contact with, why are you hitting people with the side of it?

I did like how the time keepers looked and moved like Disneyland style animatronics.

As for young Sylvie, her life is even more tragic when you figure she is potentially around 1000 years old. And if you use the Roxxcart event as the apocalypse where she was living, that one probably only lasted a few days at best she has possibly lived through 100,000 apocalypses.

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1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Lamentis could have been completely deserted rock and the outcome between Loki and Sylvie would have been the same.

But without civilization (food and supplies, a la Alabama 2050's Roxxcart) it wouldn't have been a viable hideout for Sylvie so her tempad wouldn't have saved that location.

If (as speculated) Mobius keeps getting reset, his regular life long over, then in a way he's kind in a Good Place (Bad Place) situation.

That line of Loki's from ep 1, about the TVA, hits different now: "It's an illusion. A cruel, elaborate trick conjured by the weak to inspire fear. A desperate attempt at control."

9 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I mean if the end is able to erase anything it comes in contact with, why are you hitting people with the side of it?

Maybe they intentionally don't use the pruning function without authorization?

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4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This episode was certainly bringing the action and I will say that it's my favourite episode to date. I started off wary of the show, and have grown to quickly love it as much as I loved WandaVision. 

Loki and Sylvie are certainly an interesting pairing. I wonder if Mobius was right on the money about there being a romantic connection that led to the split, or if it's something deeper. Even if he is completely right about Loki and Sylvie's romantic entanglement, it actually makes sense as to why it would cause a big enough rift for the TVA to notice.

Seeing Little Lady Loki at the beginning was a great way to showcase Sylvie as a child and how she is different from what the TVA is portraying her as. The TVA is being set up as the perfect villains, and with all of these twists that happened in this episode, it's unclear how deep their plans really go. The reveal of the robotic Time Keepers makes some sense to me, as I didn't expect the Time Keepers to let themselves be vulnerable like that, not when they still don't trust either Loki. So I assume the real Time Keepers are still out there and hidden away.

And with them sparing Loki long enough to take him there, I assume they have more plans for both Lokis and they weren't going to prune them right then and there.

Poor Mobius. I will say, they got me good when he unexpectedly got pruned right then and there. If not for the end scene with Loki getting pruned, I would have believed that this would have been the true end of Mobius. But alas, there's still hope!

I'm glad we got B-15 on Sylvie's side immediately. I like that Mobius came around.

Ravonna, I still think is higher up in her position than she leads to believe. Either way, knowing that she knows a lot more than she leads on to everyone else was a great way of upping the stakes, especially ordering the kill on someone she said was a friend. 

Lady Sif cameo! That was a pleasant surprise!

Overall, looking forward to the next two episodes. I can't even begin to fathom how this season concludes.

I feel the same way.  I really loved Wandavision.  And I watched the first 3 episodes of Loki and I am like - Ok - let's see where it goes.  But this episode was fantastic.  And it was the 4th episode of Wandavision that I finally clicked with that show as well.

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On 6/30/2021 at 8:35 AM, paigow said:

Sif seemed to be learning and adapting each iteration of the loop, but never seemed surprised or concerned that she was temporally trapped....

Sif's not really there. Mobius has seen most of Loki's past, and the TVA has the technology to create what seems to Loki like a bad memory loop. Maybe she's also an android.

On 6/30/2021 at 8:41 AM, Featherhat said:

I really hope Loki/Sylvie isn't happening but I assumed it was once Loki was cut off in his big confession. It does seem to be popular in a certain type of time travel/alternate universe fiction but not as the main romance - e.g Henry as a teen in the Time Travellers' Wife "before I worked up the courage to talk to girls". 

Thank you! I knew I had seen this trope in a book but couldn't remember where, and it's a really strange internet search to formulate.

On 7/1/2021 at 1:20 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I wonder what really happened to poor Hunter C-20

I assume she was pruned.

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1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Thank you! I knew I had seen this trope in a book but couldn't remember where, and it's a really strange internet search to formulate.

The “screw yourself” trope

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The Loki/Sylvie relationship seems very different to me than a person falling in love with himself or having sex with himself ala The Time Traveller’s Wife. While Sylvie is a version of Loki, she’s also clearly a completely separate person, with her own life, her own experiences. This isn’t Loki potentially having a romantic relationship with himself. It’s him growing close to someone who is arguably very like him, but also not him. That makes a difference to me. 

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Sure, but they are still genetically at least as close as siblings. And there is an actual reason why relationships of people who are genetically that similar are frowned upon. 

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6 hours ago, swanpride said:

Sure, but they are still genetically at least as close as siblings. And there is an actual reason why relationships of people who are genetically that similar are frowned upon. 

True, but the feeling I got from the discussion wasn’t concern about genetic similarities but what it said about Loki as a person. I just don’t feel like it’s AS narcissistic as others seem to feel. 

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Loki writer Eric Martin, who wrote Episode 4, tweeted some b-t-s stuff about this episode - here are some interesting ones...

Edited by tv echo
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I hope someone will take pity on a forum stranger, because I really need this basic thing explained to me:

How are there multiple Lokis? When we see child Sylvie taken by the TVA, where did she come from? Is male Loki alive at that time? Is he in a different timeline? Is "timeline" even the right concept here? 

(I also wonder what child Sylvie was doing that required the TVA's intervention? But one question at a time...)

Edited by Penman61

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5 hours ago, Penman61 said:

How are there multiple Lokis? When we see child Sylvie taken by the TVA, where did she come from? Is male Loki alive at that time? Is he in a different timeline? Is "timeline" even the right concept here?

This is just the way that I am understanding things so far, but yes I think we do have a situation of multiple/alternate timelines.

I think that even with the 'sacred timeline', there are still additional, almost parallel timelines that do exist (if you look at the animation they showed, it does look like several almost parallel lines weaving in and out of each other), so I do think that sometimes these parallel timeline are left to progress until something happens that makes them stray too far from the cultivated timeline. 

So each time a divergent timeline happens, a new 'set of inhabitants' is created, so... multiple Lokis, parallel but not quite the same as the 'sacred timeline' Loki. 

And now, it seems like when they prune an unruly Loki, they aren't disintegrated as I had originally thought, they seem to be sent... someplace, which could be some sort of containment facility within the TVA, or an alternate timeline that is extremely divergent from the 'sacred' one, but isolated and controlled like a prison timeline. Or it could something completely different.

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

Loki writer Eric Martin, who wrote Episode 4, tweeted some b-t-s stuff about this episode - here are some interesting ones...

Re: Eric Martin's comments about the kiss (unless it had been Loki giving Sylvie a sweet forehead kiss). I am VERY glad they decided not to do that, because if they had, it would have eliminated any shred of goodwill they earned with me from Loki coming out as bi in the text.

That scene was already deliberately dicey as it was presented, but they left me enough ambiguity that I can headcanon something that works for me (particularly in relation to Mobius totally coming across as jealous). So whoever won that argument, thank you, you have allowed me to continue to watch and enjoy the show. 

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Gator Loki must be from the same multiverse strand as Peter Porker

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18 hours ago, Macbeth said:

1672017865_AlligatorLoki(2).thumb.JPG.6fcd56807724afccef0e8bf5710e1867.JPG

🤣🤣🤣

It's funny but, I did assume Loki transformed into a (I thought) Komodo Dragon. I figured it was a nod to Mythology Loki who transformed into a Mare and gave birth to an 8 Legged Horse...Odin's Horse (we saw it in Thor).

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Rewatching and something i forgot to mention (or maybe I mentioned it in another episode). I think the other agent that Renslayer is friends with, the one Mobius keeps talking/asking about is another Mobius Variant. 

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23 hours ago, Macbeth said:

1672017865_AlligatorLoki(2).thumb.JPG.6fcd56807724afccef0e8bf5710e1867.JPG

🤣🤣🤣

The first Thor movie would be a lot different if it were Thor versus the Frost Lizards.

6 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

This is just the way that I am understanding things so far, but yes I think we do have a situation of multiple/alternate timelines.

I think that even with the 'sacred timeline', there are still additional, almost parallel timelines that do exist (if you look at the animation they showed, it does look like several almost parallel lines weaving in and out of each other), so I do think that sometimes these parallel timeline are left to progress until something happens that makes them stray too far from the cultivated timeline. 

What is interesting is if it doesn't seem to take much for Nexus events to occur, and there seem to be a ton of inhabited planets then there would be like infinite timelines forming. And even with what you see out the windows, the TVA might not be able to handle that.

On 7/2/2021 at 12:34 AM, arc said:

Maybe they intentionally don't use the pruning function without authorization?

Maybe although it seems like why light them up if you aren't going to use them. Just attack with the lit up end and it seems like it could not be blocked. 

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On 7/1/2021 at 4:22 AM, lynxfx said:

Did I miss something or did they completely hand wave all of the damage to the timeline that Sylvie caused at the end of ep2? Nothing but a few guards running in ep3 and when we connect back to the TVA at the start of ep4 the timeline looks completely normal, no branches. I assume it was meant as a distraction but it sure got cleaned up fast.

I thought the same thing. The end of episode 2, with all the reset charges going through the time doors and the all the branches going off the sacred timeline, seemed like a real "Oh shit!!!" cliffhanger. I got wrapped up in all the Loki-Sylvie stuff on Lamentis last week, so I wasn't especially antsy to see it addressed then, but it was weird to open this episode and have seemingly everybody focused on just finding Loki and Sylvie (good for the two of them, since it meant they didn't die in an apocalypse!) If it was only ever a distraction, I feel like the pitch for the end of episode 2 was off.

A Loki/Sylvie romance wouldn't be my first choice - it's enough for me just to have them connect and understand each other, which in turn gives them greater understanding of themselves - but I'm not vehemently against it or anything. I loved the Loki-Mobius discussion about it and the way Loki and Sylvie kind of quietly checked in with each other as they were being led to the Time Keepers.

Speaking of Mobius, I think he was my favorite this week. It's definitely Owen Wilson doing his Owen Wilson thing, but it works surprisingly well in this context. In addition to his interrogation with Loki (I loved that he called Loki a bad friend for following Sylvie through that time door,) I really liked the little bit showing him start to realize that Loki's claims about the TVA weren't a ploy, the scene in Renslayer's office, and that last confrontation with Renslayer. I also loved him telling Loki he could be whoever he wanted to be.

After they pruned Mobius, I was like 95% sure that pruning didn't mean the Variants were dead-dead, but I still shouted, "Oh damn!!!" when they pruned Loki. Give me everything about this collection of Lokis in a ravaged NYC. Richard E. Grant is always a yes for me, and in my mind, Crocodile Loki is already hanging out with Groot and Nick Fury's flerken.

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On 6/30/2021 at 5:00 PM, tkc said:

Since this would be love for “self”, is this a manifestation of Loki coming to terms with who he is (a la his conversation with Sif), and learning to accept himself?

So the TVA claims to uphold the “Sacred Timeline”, and perhaps we had an initial impression that this meant the “correct timeline”.

However, isn’t it likely that the TVA represents the victors (not necessarily the “good guys”) of the so-called Multiversal War, and their activities now are just an on-going genocide against the possible inhabitants of any other timelines?

This is pretty brilliant. I was thinking the same thing but you said it more eloquently than I did. 

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[Chandler on] Could they BE any more obvious Miss Minutes is running everything... [Chandler off] 

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It looks like they removed Sylvie from her timeline entirely, right? We hadn't actually seen what happens when a branch is pruned, and the Miss Manners video (and I guess the MCU timeline up to now) show that a version of you takes over for the Variant version that gets hauled away, but in Sylvie's case every indication of her existence just got wiped out. 

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Director Kate Herron confirmed that the mid-credits shot at the end of this episode was a deliberate call back to that similarly framed scene in The Avengers...

Apparently there was a musical reference as well...
Edited by tv echo
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I know it's an alligator but I am pretending it's a crocodile because I want to call it Croki.

I like the notion that Miss Minutes is running the TVA.  The TVA has been coming across as pretty fascist,  in a fascist system whoever controls and spreads the propaganda has the power.  Miss Minutes fits that bill.

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15 hours ago, Kate47 said:

It looks like they removed Sylvie from her timeline entirely, right? We hadn't actually seen what happens when a branch is pruned, and the Miss Manners video (and I guess the MCU timeline up to now) show that a version of you takes over for the Variant version that gets hauled away, but in Sylvie's case every indication of her existence just got wiped out. 

That's not at all what's been implied.  That timeline is destroyed.  That charge they set rewinds things until it merges back with the original timeline.  It's actually weird if you think about it, because the removed Variant is actually the only one who survives.

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On 6/30/2021 at 5:23 AM, Featherhat said:

I hope that Sylvie's plan and the rest of the Lokis are actually more twisty than the standard sci-fi "destroy the Time-keepers/Lords/Masters and give everyone back free will". 

You know, I think I'd be okay with the universal (omniversal?) restoration of free will as the endpoint of this series. (I do wonder what the Time Keepers' being artificial constructs will mean. I was beginning to speculate that the Time Keepers would turn out to be Will Ferrell, still trying to super-glue all the Legos.)

Sylvie's speech about how "the universe wants to break free, so it manifests chaos" is a straight-up mission statement for a trickster god. You could make a pretty sturdy argument that the function of a trickster god in any mythology is to preserve randomness and thereby the possibility of choice.

ETA: Did I see Richard E. Grant as Old-School Loki? This might be fun.

Edited by Sandman · Reason: Richard E. Grant! C'mon!
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On 6/30/2021 at 1:52 PM, ProudMary said:

Also, while we don't know when that scene is, it certainly looks as if Loki has landed in Central Park as that's definitely a destroyed Stark/Avengers Tower in the background to the right.

I am interested in the reveal of which New York they are in because it's not the NY of the MCU. One thing that Marvel has done is present a pretty realist geography of New York. Stark Tower is in midtown Manhattan. Near Grand Central Terminal.

The tower we see in the credits is not  in midtown. It looks more like Union Square. Or Manhattan in the early twentieth century.

 

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I love Richard E Grant.  He's an interesting and delightful actor.  I had an old lady night last Saturday and watched the PBS rerun of Marple, and Richard played her nephew, the mystery novelist Raymond West.  It was so interesting watching him knowing the actor is playing a Loki.  He had a twinkle and a sassy word in almost all of his scene (and got roaring drunk), so it all felt super Loki to me.  Can't see what the Lokis bring to the party.

It occurs to me that I haven't shown enough love for Sylvie and Sophia. Sophia has a tough job...she has to find the layers of her character, make her compelling enough for the audience to like her (b/c I don't think this works as well if you don't like her), and be able to go toe to toe with a phenomenal actor who has been playing this role for 11 years.  With all of that, I think she's been amazing.  I feel for Slyvie, care for her, and want her to get somewhere better than the fed up lot she's been given.

I rewatched this episode in prep for episode 5 later today (eeeee).  I really don't think Loki was going to tell her "I love you".  B/c I was able to watch without the shock of Mobius being pruned, I was able to pay better attention to all what happened before.  When Mobius came to get Loki out of the time cell, he mentioned that Loki doesn't have to be alone and he has capacity for good. I think THAT is what Loki was trying to tell her.  Yes, he likes her, but I just don't know that I buy the romantic piece, yet.  I love the idea that in her grief at being screwed over with the animatronic figureheads by the TVA, Loki wanted her to know that she wouldn't be alone, and that they can figure it out and do something more (free the other TVA variants? overthrow the lies?) together.  That's some real damn character growth, IMO.  Until something cannon tells me otherwise, this is my outstanding theory.  

On 7/1/2021 at 10:24 PM, justspiffy said:

Go Gators!  (Ahem). That is all. ; )

GO GATORS!  (Class of '03; College of Liberal Arts and Science.  BS in Psych with minors in Sociology and Classics)  P.S. All these ppl that were calling it a croc, I was like LOOK AT THE SNOUT!  That's an alligator, damn it!  I am glad the writer cleared that up. 

On the wilder side - The interwebs seem to be going NUTS for Tom/Loki kneeling in his time cell.  Whooo chile. **wags eyebrows**  Do look it up on the TikToks or the YouTubes. Normally that isn't my bag, but Tom kneeling with his perfect posture scrambles my brain, TBH. 

Edited by TrininisaScorp

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saoirse

Posts in this topic should be about the episode. If your post is not primarily about the episode, please rethink where to post it. Posts that are primarily or only about the Marvel movies (or that quote such posts) will be removed without notice, and warnings may be issued. Thank you.

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