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Camilla's thinking, "Gosh, I hope everyone else sees a pink-haired woman with a bird on her head.  If not, I've really got to cut down on the gin & tonics."

Re potential titles for Louis and Archie, won't Archie become the Duke of Sussex once Harry dies?  Of course, given the longevity of this family, that's likely to be about 60 years from now.  I do think that Louis may be given the Cambridge title, since Will & Kate might have some sentiment about a title they probably will have for at least 15 years, and may feel the York title should be skipped for a generation.  It might depend on how long Andrew has been dead and the title not in use.  I do not think that Charles will refuse to give the Edinburgh title to Edward, since why would he start his reign that way?  Possibly if Edward was a creep like Andrew, but I doubt Charles would want the horrible publicity of disregarding the wish of his mother & father.  I do wonder how quickly Charles as King will give the Prince of Wales title to William.  Didn't George V think his father took too long to bestow that title on him?  Something like 9 or 10 months after Victoria died/Edward VII became King?  George V gave his eldest son (the eventual Edward VIII/Duke of Windsor) the POW title 7 weeks after ascending to the throne.  Edward VII had the POW title for decades (like Charles), so perhaps he felt a bit of a break between Princes of Wales was better, while George V was the POW for less than 10 years.  

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Today is the anniversary of the murder of Tsar Nicholas II and his family.   Plus two loyal retainers who stuck with them literally to the end.

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1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Today is the anniversary of the murder of Tsar Nicholas II and his family.   Plus two loyal retainers who stuck with them literally to the end.

Actually 4 retainers were murdered with them that night: doctor, maid, cook, and footman. 

Edited by Zella
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21 hours ago, Calvada said:

Re potential titles for Louis and Archie, won't Archie become the Duke of Sussex once Harry dies? 

Yes. Technically Archie could already use Harry's subsidiary title and be styled Earl of Dumbarton, the way Edward and Sophie's son is Viscount Severn.

 

21 hours ago, Calvada said:

I do think that Louis may be given the Cambridge title, since Will & Kate might have some sentiment about a title they probably will have for at least 15 years, and may feel the York title should be skipped for a generation.  It might depend on how long Andrew has been dead and the title not in use. 

I agree with this. When people talk about Louis' potential title the argument, "But York is the title always given to second sons" inevitably comes up and I always find that kind of specious. A title like Duke of Cornwall is specifically designed to go to the sovereign's oldest son who is also the heir (the succession to the crown has been changed so that the oldest child is now the heir, but Cornwall is still designed to only go to a son who is the heir) and either merge with the crown when he becomes king or merge with the crown if he predeceases his parent. If Charles died tomorrow, William wouldn't become Duke of Cornwall because of the rules of that title's succession. A title like Duke of York is different. It isn't in any official way designated as belonging to the second born son, it's just turned out that way because the title keeps becoming available as a result of Dukes of York ending up becoming king or not having sons. Before Duke of York was the oft bestowed title on second sons, the go to was Duke of Clarence, but these titles are always given out with the expectation that they'll pass on down generations of the holder's descendants and be unavailable afterwards. It's just chance that Andrew had two daughters and no sons.

As you point out, Cambridge is the title with special meaning to William and Kate so it would make sense for them to want to give that to Louis. Besides which, depending on how much more information comes out about Andrew's involvement with Epstein, the York title might be considered "tainted" for a generation or two.

21 hours ago, Calvada said:

I do not think that Charles will refuse to give the Edinburgh title to Edward, since why would he start his reign that way?  Possibly if Edward was a creep like Andrew, but I doubt Charles would want the horrible publicity of disregarding the wish of his mother & father. 

I actually think the question of whether Edward will or won't get the title has less to do with Charles' pettiness (though I do think he's generally a very petty man) and more to do with the question of Scottish independence. If Scotland breaks away, then you can't exactly have a royal running around calling themselves the Duke of Edinburgh. That's one of the reasons they haven't reused the Duke of Connaught, because Connaught is now part of the Republic of Ireland.

On 7/15/2021 at 8:15 AM, Ananayel said:

Perhaps people are wondering why it hasn't happened yet, and aren't realizing that he can't de-activate it for himself and re-activate it for Edward until he's King? I mean, I suppose the Queen could strip him of it, and re-create it for Edward, but probably doesn't want to do that. 

She actually can't do that. She has the power to bestow available titles, but only an act of parliament can take away someone's titles. That's why Harry and Meghan aren't going to be "stripped" of their titles no matter how much the Daily Mail howls about how they should be.

Edited by Steph J
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17 hours ago, Steph J said:

She actually can't do that. She has the power to bestow available titles, but only an act of parliament can take away someone's titles. That's why Harry and Meghan aren't going to be "stripped" of their titles no matter how much the Daily Mail howls about how they should be.

Wait you mean Kate can't do it?  That's the kind of headline I usually see.  So, so stupid.

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On 7/8/2021 at 10:02 AM, Scarlett45 said:

 

But social expectations about marriage and romantic relationships did change a bit (even among the uppercases) between the 1920/30s and the 1980s. If Charles and Diana had been on the same page about what they EACH wanted from the marriage and were honest, they maybe could've worked it out. Diana wanted a love match, Charles wanted a mother for his children and a suitable royal wife. 

 

Best autocorrect of the day!

 

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Charles and Diana had quite similar emotional baggage, which made them remarkably horrible for each other.  They both needed someone who would put them first and think the world of them and love and support them completely.  

Additionally, I sometimes wonder if Diana's aristocratic upbringing ended up being a hindrance.  She and the Spencers were at the top of their world.  Becoming a royal was actually something of a downgrade, because she was suddenly answerable to someone else for absolutely everything.  Asking one's mother-in-law for permission and approval is quite a bit different from asking one's father.

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25 minutes ago, ancslove said:

Charles and Diana had quite similar emotional baggage, which made them remarkably horrible for each other.  They both needed someone who would put them first and think the world of them and love and support them completely.  

Additionally, I sometimes wonder if Diana's aristocratic upbringing ended up being a hindrance.  She and the Spencers were at the top of their world.  Becoming a royal was actually something of a downgrade, because she was suddenly answerable to someone else for absolutely everything.  Asking one's mother-in-law for permission and approval is quite a bit different from asking one's father.

Ah, but why is it that   Kate Middleton who was born a complete commoner    went from being an independent woman who cohabited with the Heir Presumptive to being the Duchess of Cambridge who's had to ask one's grandmother-in-law for permission and approval  for the last ten years seems to have not only been more stablely married than her late mother-in-law, but, by all accounts has gotten along far better with her grandmother-in-law?

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On 7/16/2021 at 7:46 AM, BlackberryJam said:

New Dutch photos!

I live this explosion of color.

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I love everything about the yellow dress and think it would not be as spectacular as it is without that fringe belt. I have spent an embarrassing amount of time just looking at the whole outfit.

I also would have worn the white top/green pants/tennis (pronounced teneh around here) shoes back in the mid eighties. Worn it out probably like I did when I found a favorite look. I like the unfinished edge to the hem of the pants.

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It's only a half-formed theory right now, but I'd say that Kate Middleton had experience with working under someone else's employ (moreso than Diana did as a part-time nursery school assistant), and more specifically had experience working in a family business.  But more importantly, Kate has bought into the entire Royal establishment, and Diana never really did.  

Diana had a fraction of the life experience that Kate had under her belt by the time of her marriage, and what life experience Diana did have was one of pretty big privilege, where her father was the boss.  Diana was used to palatial estates and servants, but she was used to being able to do as she liked in that palace and with those servants.  The trappings would have been familiar to Diana, but her new role within them was very different.  It would be like going from VP of a company to now being a middle manager.

Kate at least had working experience of having a boss and a chain of command.

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2 hours ago, Blergh said:

Ah, but why is it that   Kate Middleton who was born a complete commoner    went from being an independent woman who cohabited with the Heir Presumptive to being the Duchess of Cambridge who's had to ask one's grandmother-in-law for permission and approval  for the last ten years seems to have not only been more stablely married than her late mother-in-law, but, by all accounts has gotten along far better with her grandmother-in-law?

In many ways, Diana was the worst case scenario for marrying a royal and Kate was the best case scenario. Diana did not have a stable childhood, was so young and had very little prep time. Kate had a very stable childhood, was nearly a decade older and had years of prep. Kate walked into her marriage with her eyes wide open to what in entails while Diana had no clue.

That world is such a pressure cooker that anyone marrying in needs to have a very strong sense of self and lots of time to prep. Diana had neither and Kate appears to have had both.

Plus Kate benefited from changing social norms and from the ramifications of how badly things were handled with Diana. 

Edited by Dani
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I think Diana being so beautiful and such an immediate hit with the public hurt her too. If she was married to someone less insecure than Charles it might have worked, but Charles started to resent Diana's publicity, and Diana also wondered why if she's literally the most adored woman ever, why couldn't her husband feel that way about her?

Just so much negative energy in a marriage that would have been an uphill climb under the best of circumstances.

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3 hours ago, ancslove said:

Charles and Diana had quite similar emotional baggage, which made them remarkably horrible for each other.  They both needed someone who would put them first and think the world of them and love and support them completely.  

I can't recall where, but someone once described the failure of their marriage as being the result of him wanting a wife who was a mother figure and her wanting a husband who was father figure. It made for a dynamic that just couldn't work.

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14 hours ago, Blergh said:

Ah, but why is it that   Kate Middleton who was born a complete commoner    went from being an independent woman who cohabited with the Heir Presumptive to being the Duchess of Cambridge who's had to ask one's grandmother-in-law for permission and approval  for the last ten years seems to have not only been more stablely married than her late mother-in-law, but, by all accounts has gotten along far better with her grandmother-in-law?

Kate has a supportive husband.  And other than a rumor here and there as far as we know there isn't three people in their marriage.  

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Not surprised to hear this news.  It was only a matter of time before he or Meghan wrote a memoir.   And before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusions,  Harry is donating his monies to charity. 

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Princess Anne wishes Team GB good luck before the Olympics.   She is not going even though she is a member of the IOC.

 

 

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1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Princess Anne wishes Team GB good luck before the Olympics.   She is not going even though she is a member of the IOC.

 

 

I love Anne's continued and ongoing support of the Olympics. 

 

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17 hours ago, Dani said:

In many ways, Diana was the worst case scenario for marrying a royal and Kate was the best case scenario. Diana did not have a stable childhood, was so young and had very little prep time. Kate had a very stable childhood, was nearly a decade older and had years of prep. Kate walked into her marriage with her eyes wide open to what in entails while Diana had no clue.

That world is such a pressure cooker that anyone marrying in needs to have a very strong sense of self and lots of time to prep. Diana had neither and Kate appears to have had both.

Plus Kate benefited from changing social norms and from the ramifications of how badly things were handled with Diana. 

Also- Kate and William dated a LONG TIME and she had a chance to be absolutely sure this was the life she wanted. They were also a love match- compatible in a variety of ways. They were also peers age wise, that makes a difference.

When William was being a little twerp, Kate didn't put up with that and went "You know what, if you don't want me another man will, I am not going to sit crying by the phone." and William went "OH SHIT, I love this woman and she may actually get away if I do not straighten up and fly right." William wanted to be married to Kate (and she to him), they wanted each other as people, not just roles to fill. Yes the roles were important- I am sure if Kate didn't want to be a royal or have children, William would've been a "fun story" she told people about her years at University dating the 2nd in line to the throne.

If Diana had half the chance to get to know Charles she would not have wanted to marry him, and Charles only agreed to marry her because he was getting older and he was tired of people bothering him about being married, and it was time to settle down and have some kids.

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Hopefully she is better behind the wheel than her late husband.

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8 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Okay, Betty driving around Sandringham.

 

Prince Julian is getting a televised christening.

More about the ugly situation with King Mswati.

 

Of course, it should be mentioned that Wood Farm (where Prince Phillip spent much of his retirement) was also the place where Her Majesty's youngest paternal uncle Prince John spent the last part of his life under the care of a devoted nanny. Prince John had had epilepsy and would die before his 14th birthday in 1919 ( before his niece's birth). 

However, his other siblings wound up envying him because he actually seemed the happiest of the group. 

I wonder if his mother Queen Mary ever talked about him to Her Majesty. 

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Charles' hands are looking icky, but these two wrinklies enjoy each other's company. Good for them.

Philippe and Mathilde, day of mourning. 

CP, Sofia and baby Julian.

Happy birthday, Haakon...looking good.

 

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So when will Harry finally drop the polite fiction that he's not angry at his family and he wants to reconcile with them?  And will his new memoir drop before next year's Jubilee, or after?  

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2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Charles' hands are looking icky, but these two wrinklies enjoy each other's company. Good for them.

Philippe and Mathilde, day of mourning. 

CP, Sofia and baby Julian.

Happy birthday, Haakon...looking good.

 

Crown Prince Haakon does look good. He has a warm smile!

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3 hours ago, ancslove said:

So when will Harry finally drop the polite fiction that he's not angry at his family and he wants to reconcile with them?  And will his new memoir drop before next year's Jubilee, or after?  

The publisher says late 2022 which should be November.

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Well now we know what's going to completely overshadow next summer, if he attends!

At this point, I honestly don't think he should.  Let it be a real, clean break (barring funerals) for everyone, at least for a few years.

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On 7/19/2021 at 5:05 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Also- Kate and William dated a LONG TIME and she had a chance to be absolutely sure this was the life she wanted. They were also a love match- compatible in a variety of ways. They were also peers age wise, that makes a difference.

I may be mis-remembering, but didn’t Will and Kate live for the first year or so off in Northern Wales while he was an Air Rescue pilot?  I don’t think they did a lot of engagements during that time. Being able to live outside of the spotlight for a while (and away from the Firm) and learn how to exist with each other was probably a benefit too. 

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I just realized something: by historical standards, Charles wasn't even a bad royal husband. He had a long-term mistress but most royal husbands did. He wasn't physically abusive, he appears to have been a decent father, and he did try to get Diana some medical help for her eating disorders. 

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37 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

I may be mis-remembering, but didn’t Will and Kate live for the first year or so off in Northern Wales while he was an Air Rescue pilot?  I don’t think they did a lot of engagements during that time. Being able to live outside of the spotlight for a while (and away from the Firm) and learn how to exist with each other was probably a benefit too. 

Yes- they lived together in a variety of situations; one of them being before their engagement in Wales. They were just boyfriend and girlfriend then, after the marriage they continued to live there while Will was an Air Rescue pilot. 
 

They dated for TEN years before marriage (counting their breakup). Let’s say 9 to count the break up and the time Will took to win her back. That’s a long time. 

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9 hours ago, irisheyes said:

I may be mis-remembering, but didn’t Will and Kate live for the first year or so off in Northern Wales while he was an Air Rescue pilot?  I don’t think they did a lot of engagements during that time. Being able to live outside of the spotlight for a while (and away from the Firm) and learn how to exist with each other was probably a benefit too. 

Yes, after their marriage they lived on Ynys Môn (the island of Anglesey), which sits just off the coast of North Wales (we just say north, not northern).

Edited by Llywela
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15 hours ago, irisheyes said:

I may be mis-remembering, but didn’t Will and Kate live for the first year or so off in Northern Wales while he was an Air Rescue pilot?  I don’t think they did a lot of engagements during that time. Being able to live outside of the spotlight for a while (and away from the Firm) and learn how to exist with each other was probably a benefit too. 

I also believe that Elizabeth and Phillip lived out of the spotlight a bit at the beginning of their marriage while he was still in the Navy or am I not remembering that correctly? 

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33 minutes ago, skipnjump said:

I also believe that Elizabeth and Phillip lived out of the spotlight a bit at the beginning of their marriage while he was still in the Navy or am I not remembering that correctly? 

Yes, they lived on and off for two years while he was stationed in Malta where, aside for a few ceremonies and ribbon cuttings, they more or less were able to live the life of a Naval officer couple (and it seems they had their first two children being raised by others in England at that time).

Until the pandemic, this likely was the most time the two of them got to spend with each other more or less alone (granted with a good number of retainers). 

Of course, this is somewhat different than having lived together before marriage which would have been completely impossible for the Heiress Presumptive to have pulled off back then (and George VI would have likely sent HIM on a permanent tour of South Africa instead of taking one to see if his daughter might change her mind about Phillip). 

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Grandpa Weird Fingers having a drink.

He at least looks jolly.

The Grimaldis of Monaco, minus Charlene. That's a great looking family, ...except Albert. Head of the family, smacked with an ugly skillet.

Princess Delphine at her first military parade and that hat is a choice.

Mathilde is so, so proud of Elisabeth!

 

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I see Princess Delphine is entering the style stakes.   It's a choice but I like it.   

Awww, Queen or not, she is still a Mum.   Queen Mathilde is so proud of her little girl.

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Princess Delphine at her first military parade and that hat is a choice.

A choice to either burn it or rip it shreds?

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2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

The Grimaldis of Monaco, minus Charlene. That's a great looking family, ...except Albert. Head of the family, smacked with an ugly skillet.

 

White pants are always a hard pass for me and on a guy they are both a hard pass and a hell to the no.  👎

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The Grimaldis are missing Stephanie, where is she?

Edited by bijoux

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On 7/19/2021 at 10:44 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

This is such an awkwardly worded sentence.  You'd think his publisher would give him a decent copy editor.

On 7/19/2021 at 12:13 PM, merylinkid said:

Princess Anne wishes Team GB good luck before the Olympics.   She is not going even though she is a member of the IOC.

 

I love Princess Anne.  Always have, always will.

On 7/20/2021 at 7:16 AM, ancslove said:

So when will Harry finally drop the polite fiction that he's not angry at his family and he wants to reconcile with them?  And will his new memoir drop before next year's Jubilee, or after?  

Before of course!  What's the point in waiting until after?

 

Edited by Leeds · Reason: .
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I like that pattern, especially the color combo and I would be thrilled to wear the dress and the hat. I wish I could see her standing to see the whole effect of the dress. It is such a grown up pattern against the whimsical colors of purple. 

That is a unappealing family photo of the Grimaldi's. They all look terribly tired, their fashion is awful. 

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A very happy birthday to Prince George.   he's gotten so big.   how on earth did 8 years go by already.

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Princess Elisabeth rocking some earrings here.

I kind of love her.

Ingrid Alexandra is also looking fantastic.

 

 

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On 7/22/2021 at 6:15 AM, merylinkid said:

A very happy birthday to Prince George.   he's gotten so big.   how on earth did 8 years go by already.

Good question! It should be interesting to see how tall he might be as an adult.

 

He's already gotten older than the previous direct heir great-grandchild of a British monarch before the monarch's passing (which was the future Duke of Windsor who was almost six years and six months old when Queen Victoria died). 

Anyway, Happy Birthday, Your Highness and I hope you and your family are having fun today!

Edited by Blergh
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I notice that since the pandemic the Cambridge children have been dressed much more casually in pictures. There was a time when George only took photos in a frilly starch shirt, those preppy shorts, and those high socks. 

Now he wears regular clothes. 

 

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1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I notice that since the pandemic the Cambridge children have been dressed much more casually in pictures. There was a time when George only took photos in a frilly starch shirt, those preppy shorts, and those high socks. 

Now he wears regular clothes. 

 

I think there was a period of time when they dressed George in the exact same outfit for every photo/appearance. It was that icky shirt seen here.

 

Delphine went all in on that pattern. 

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Hate the shoes. 

Obscure royal! Sophie of Romania and what is going on with the top of that dress?

Those straps hurt me. 

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Hate the shoes. 

Seriously, how hard was it to find a pair of shoes with the same pattern as the rest of her outfit?

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2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I notice that since the pandemic the Cambridge children have been dressed much more casually in pictures. There was a time when George only took photos in a frilly starch shirt, those preppy shorts, and those high socks. 

Now he wears regular clothes. 

 

I remember during Harry and Meghan’s wedding talk there were several articles that upper class boys in Britain usually wear shorts until they are around 8. Some wackadoos were upset that George wore pants at H&M’s. 

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