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ElectricBoogaloo

S04.E10: The Wilderness

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6 minutes ago, Maurina said:

That was the most disturbing attempt at fan service I've ever seen.

To think that earlier this season I speculated that the writers might eventually be credited for having the courage to do the opposite of blatant fan servicing. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong....

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10 minutes ago, dubstepford wife said:

I actually think getting blood on Nicole made some sense.  The story is ambivalent about June at this point, she's become someone we're not exactly supposed to support, because she's using her pain for the purposes of revenge.  Revenge doesn't always equal justice.  In Fred's case it might have, but there's no way June's Revenge Tour is stopping with him.  And getting blood on Nicole could be representative of how hatred can be passed down through generations and how it's our children who wind up suffering because of our wars.  

The thing I hated the most was the music.  Yes, I know that song has been played in the show before, but holy crap was that heavy-handed.  Feminist revenge fantasy set to the backdrop of "You Don't Own Me."  We get it show.  Men don't own women's bodies and rapists don't own their victims.  And Fred dying should have been accompanied I think by either a sweeping score, or no music at all.  It would have made it more dramatic and been more consistent with the anti-villain nature of June's deeds, where we're supposed to have mixed feelings about it.  This, plus Emily's cheerful little "I wanna play too!" smile just cheapened it and made it seem like we're meant to laugh maniacally.  

Serena is the real villain at this point, and I think she always has been.  It's a woman focused story and Serena, Aunt Lydia, and Janine all have lots of story left to tell.  We didn't need Fred anymore.

I thought the baby blood smearing was as eye-rollingly heavy handed as the music. Like I said earlier in the thread, I really was taken aback with the amateurish feel of so much of the writing of the episode. I actually felt embarrassed for the actors who were given this script to work with.

Edited by Bannon
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8 hours ago, aghst said:

Well that was something.

Some kind of feminist revenge fantasy realized?

Barbaric things were done to these women so they get to resort to barbarism themselves?

June covered in Fred's blood smears her baby daughter with it.

I am surprised, figured that Fred and Serena would last until the end of the series but really his story lines had gone stale for awhile now.

It wasn't just that the women participated.  They hung him on the wall and then sent his severed finger to Serena, who certainly deserves comeuppance, because she's now smug and very demanding, wanting to go see probably some palatial homes.

That is like Ariya paying back Waldor Frey for the Red Wedding by feeding him his own sons.  Or like the Romans salting Carthage.

Yeah I don't get how Joseph and Nick trade 22 Handmaids for 1 commander and then turn him over to escaped Handmaids.  Sure they both want to help June but aren't they under suspicion?

This show is now all about mindfucking -- it was there in the beginning but it seems to be all that's left.

 

They have been living in a barbaric world.  I don't think it's feminist fantasy to see someone who stole your life pay.  I am fairly certain if you talk to male victims, they probably have the same fantasies.  Especially when the justice system fails them.  June had every intention of letting the government try Fred.  And they screwed her over.  Not only did they screw her over, but they screwed her in the most callous way possible.  June tells Tuello...the weakness of men in power she means him.  She came to Canada expecting justice from men like Tuello and he basically again placed a male over the women hurt.  It is what it is.  Gilead is largely a place that places men over women and then she came to Canada to have the same.  I can understand not condoning this but the fact that people cannot understand the rage of not being able to control your own body and having your child stolen from you 

 

 

Edited by dmc
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The June/Nick kiss in front of Fred also felt fan-servicey to me (like that earlier 360 degree spin kiss), because holy cow I cannot imagine that being a moment real people would contemplate in a real situation like this. Fred definitely didn't have the moral grounds to be sickened by that but on a narrative level, I felt him there.

Ridiculous as Serena/Tuello could or will be, if it transpires, there was a fake rumor floating around that he'd be revealed as the father of her baby, so be glad we were spared that, at least!

The more I think about the last couple scenes, the more confused I am. How much time is supposed to have transpired after Fred is killed? His finger's already arrived in the mail in Canada (presumably mailed from within Canada; I missed if June had slapped a return address on there). Serena is clueless at that point about his fate, but Luke knows something has happened. But how would anyone else know Fred's dead at this point unless June tipped people off? And does Tuello explicitly know this was happening, or was he only informed to the extent of "Fred's returning to Gilead and he'll be in Nick's custody"?

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1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Fer' the luv' of Fonzie doing aerials over cartilaginous predatory fish, if they write an intimate relationship between Tuello and Serena next, it'll be a good thing I don't own a pistol, because I'd otherwise pull an Elvis on a 72 inch flat screen.

Hahahah well they are definitely heading thowards that. Even tho it sounds a bit like a South American telenovela-style.

Fred who is slow and delusional realised that something is going on between Serena and Tuello (more on Tuellos behalf).

1 hour ago, Maurina said:

That was the most disturbing attempt at fan service I've ever seen.

Agree.

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1 hour ago, dubstepford wife said:

 

Serena is the real villain at this point, and I think she always has been.  It's a woman focused story and Serena, Aunt Lydia, and Janine all have lots of story left to tell.  We didn't need Fred anymore.

I wonder who will take on the roll of the main male show villain because Nick, Lawrence and Putnam don't fit the mold.

We know that Serena will probably stay the main female villain.

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1 minute ago, MichaelaRae said:

I really thought when the run-Fred-run scene started, they would make him THINK he was going to die ("scare him to death"), making him feel a fraction of what they felt as women in Gilead - chased, persecuted, terrified, hunted - and then NOT kill him but then hand him over to Gilead for a big heaping gulp of the hideous system he created. That's what I WANTED to happen. While I can empathize with the particution, it was very unsatisfying for me. My scenario gave me the best of both worlds.

Yes, Serena and Fred (and Lydia) deserve to be punished by Gilead, the monster they created.

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I fear that the writers are going to make June a fugitive in Canada next season. Leading to what I don't know, but they have so abandoned narrative logic at this point that literally anything is possible, no matter how nonsensical.

Edited by Bannon
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Can someone debrief on that image of the hanging corpse at the end?:

  • I presume it was Fred, but where?
  • Why was it wearing a white jacket/coat?
  • What was the source of the Latin inscription ("Don't let the bastards get you down"?) below the body?
  • What was the inscription's significance? Was it what June saw on that closet wall a few seasons ago?
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10 hours ago, dmc said:

Tuello didn't attempt to make any other kind of deal.  His plan was always to get Fred to turn over intel.  When someone whose not in intelligence gets a better deal in 48 hours than you negotiated in a year, you aren't good at your job.  Everything June did, he had the ability to do.  And another dumb thing is thinking someone who has been out of the game for a year still has great intel.  Fred has been in custody for almost a year.  Any plans he was apart of could be different.  Especially since Gilead knows he's in custody. 

To me, Tuello doesn't serve much of a purpose in the story other than enabling June.

They were willing to give Fred, someone they deemed a war criminal (IIRC), his freedom. That tells me that they believe his intel is extremely valuable. It doesn't make sense that they would all of a sudden send him back to Gilead on a "promise" that he would be tried.

What makes even less sense to me was that June can get 22 people out of Gilead in exchange for Fred; smuggle herself and other women into Gilead or have Nick and the eyes smuggle Fred back over the Canadian border; and with all the clout and logistics that this plan required, not one of those 22 people be Hannah.

Edited by AntFTW
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More later but in brief - I assume snatching Hannah would be more difficult than grabbing 22 women from detention. Agree that it shoud have at least been mentioned and turned down.

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30 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

To me, Tuello doesn't serve much of a purpose in the story other than enabling June.

They were give Fred, someone they deemed a war criminal (IIRC), his freedom. That tells me that they believe his intel is extremely valuable. It doesn't make sense that they would all of a sudden send him back to Gilead on a "promise" that he would be tried.

What makes even less sense to me was that June can get 22 people out of Gilead in exchange for Fred; smuggle herself and other women into Gilead or have Nick and the eyes smuggle Fred back over the Canadian border; and with all the clout and logistics that this plan required, not one of those 22 people be Hannah.

I agree I don't like what they are doing with Tuello's character either. 

I don't think a lot of his actions make sense and I don't particularly think the way he told June about the deal was smart either.  

Also, the part where they get to the diner and he asks IF this is a safe place?  Sorry but no one in intelligence would trust June for if this was a safe place to talk.  June threatened his life last week.  

They agree to the deal before they have the intel.  But all his intel is based on when he was in Gilead which at this point has been awhile.  They think at the point where the Putnams' visit he hasn't turned on them but honestly if I was running a government and someone in it was captured with a lot of intel it would make sense to change your plans to me.  Also the leadership has altered considerably since he left. Gilead not trying to barter for Fred tells me they don't care if tells them anything which means how valuable is his information now?

It tells me a lot that Gilead doesn't think Fred is valuable or a threat.  They know what Fred knows and they don't even string him along. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dmc
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1 hour ago, lavenderblue said:

His finger's already arrived in the mail in Canada (presumably mailed from within Canada; I missed if June had slapped a return address on there).

I think the envelope said "Via Messenger" or something like that.  I used to work in a mailroom, so I was curious too.  Naturally, this doesn't answer any of your other questions, but at least we know there's still good courier service in Canada in this timeline. ;)

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Man, we were so close to getting a really satisfying and karmic ending for Fred. The American government would still get some good info from him (presuming Fred wasn't lying about everything to save his own ass) twenty two resistance fights would be freed, and Fred would face the brutal Gilead "legal" system that he himself helped to create that has led to the deaths of countless innocent people, it would have been so perfect. But unfortunately, we had to get the June revenge fantasy where she gets to stab Fred a billion times while the extremely on the nose soundtrack plays dramatically in the background. You can say that this was karmic as well, murdered by his rape victim and all, but if she had managed to get this new and better deal where Fred would still get what was coming to him she still could have kept her life and family and we could have at least stayed somewhat in the realms of reality without us having to, again, wonder endlessly about logistics and how easy everything has become for June. This show has really fallen in love with its imagery over its narrative and its become a real problem for the show the last few seasons. It comes up with these really cool or disturbing images, like June and her army of angry former handmaidens chasing Fred through the woods and beating him to death then hanging his headless body up on a wall, and they just stick those up without any thought to how it makes any sense in universe or to the greater story. It felt very fanservice-y as well, it knows that fans wanted Fred to suffer, so here you go, even if it wasn't in a way that felt really satisfying. I guess this means that June has to leave now and her marriage is over? Or that she has to leave to enact more revenge fantasies? This was so close to being a really satisfying finale and it just ended up being another June the Superhero Power Hour, complete with June making out with her boyfriend who turned her enemy over to her and her army of vengeance while we get even more close ups of June starring at us. 

Of course, I cant lie and say that I didn't at least get a lot of enjoyment out of Fred losing that smug smirk and increasingly freaking out as he realized how fucked he was and that his perfect little life was being pulled away. I am thrilled that he is just finally gone and off my screen after finally getting what was coming to him, even if it wasn't in the way that I wanted it to happen. Fred is such a dumbass and generally shitty excuse for a person, I am tickled that he is done and gone, especially as this show has a bad habit of keeping characters around way longer than they should. Of course when it comes down to it all he can do is scream "I'M A MAN!" and try to weakly manipulate Nick and Lawrence, who could not be any happier to watch him suffer, what a pathetic sack of crap. Serena is a much more interesting villain, I cant wait to see what terrible fate will befall her, hopefully it will be more karmic and less fanservice this time. Or god help me if they try to make her out to be sympathetic like the show has tried a few times, I hope that June letting lose and calling her out for being a shitty person means that she is going to very much get what is coming to her. 

Look, she got blood on baby Nicole, get it? Do you get our very subtle symbolism about revenge and whatnot? Sometimes I think this season has done a good job at exploring trauma and trying to figure out how to use your anger constructively and when something is justice or when its revenge and if that can be healthy or not, and sometimes it gets so high up on its symbolic horse that the whole thing ends up getting lost in the drama and can be unintentionally ridiculous. 

 

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Sending Serena a finger made so little sense. It's not going to be read as the taunt/threat it's intended as. Fred was complicit in her finger being chopped off. Send her his, reads like a gesture of solidarity. "He took your finger, now you have his." They should have sent her an ear or some other body part.

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What annoys me is that this nonsensical narrative was not required by any inherent premise of the story, and where it had arrived at the end of season 3. It was perfectly possible to write a coherent, satisfying arc this season, with June, fellow handmaids&Marthas trying to survive and fight as Gilead fugitives in the midst of a brutal civil war,  two of our villains as prisoners in Canada, and all the other potentially interesting characters (Lawrence, Lydia, Emily, Moira, Rita, hell, even Nick, Luke and Tuello, given some effort) driving the narrative.It likely would have entailed some characters being killed, and might have resulted in June in Canada. All sorts of interesting themes were available for exploration, and none of it had to be ridiculous. Yet the writers did what they did. What a waste.

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1 hour ago, Bannon said:

I fear that the writers are going to make June a fugitive in Canada next season. Leading to what I don't know, but they have so abandoned narrative logic at this point that literally anything is possible, no matter how nonsensical.

Would she be a fugitive? She just saved 22 women who can fight for America's freedom. She didn't personally kill Fred. Tuello was in agreement and he was the broker in all negotiations.

1 hour ago, lavenderblue said:

The more I think about the last couple scenes, the more confused I am. How much time is supposed to have transpired after Fred is killed? His finger's already arrived in the mail in Canada (presumably mailed from within Canada; I missed if June had slapped a return address on there). 

Canada Post is pretty reliable.  I mean if you think about it the dude who was killing cats was also shipping body parts via Canada Post.

Uh.... bad example I know but maybe Canada Post should start screening packages. 

I have not seen the episode yet but why wasn't Janine included at least in the 22 women?

Edited by greekmom
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3 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Would she be a fugitive? She just saved 22 women who can fight for America's freedom. She didn't personally kill Fred. Tuello was in agreement and he was the broker in all negotiations.

Canada Post is pretty reliable.  I mean if you think about it the dude who was killing cats was also shipping body parts via Canada Post.

Uh.... bad example I know but maybe Canada Post should start screening packages. 

I have not seen the episode yet but why wasn't Janine included at least in the 22 women?

Like I said, trying to make narrative logic out of this mess at this time is hopeless. Literally  nothing is impossible in this world any longer, so, yes, June can be a Canadian fugitive (she certainly appeared to me to participate in Fred's killing, for what it is worth), just as she could fly and breathe fire, like a Danyrius Targaryen dragon, and thus decimate Gilead, according to the rules, or lack thereof, as created by this writing. 

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32 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

More later but in brief - I assume snatching Hannah would be more difficult than grabbing 22 women from detention. Agree that it shoud have at least been mentioned and turned down.

Yes, I would assume that as well... and Agreed! how does June, who spent a great deal of resources and time trying to find her baby (Hannah), sit at a table to discuss trading people from Gilead for Fred not give any mention of a possibility of getting Hannah?

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Just now, Bannon said:

Like I said, trying to make narrative logic out of this mess at this time is hopeless. Literally  nothing is impossible in this world any longer, so, yes, June can be a Canadian fugitive (she certainly appeared to me to participate in Fred's killing, for what it is worth), just as she could fly and breathe fire, like a Danyrius Targaryen dragon, and thus decimate Gilead, according to the rules, or lack thereof, as created by this writing. 

She's not a fugitive.  Because Fred is no longer in Canadian custody when he's killed or on Canadian soil

And Gilead doesn't care about him.

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Just now, dmc said:

She's not a fugitive.  Because Fred is no longer in Canadian custody when he's killed or on Canadian soil

And Gilead doesn't care about him.

She's allowed to kill people and send their body parts through the Canadian Postal System, as a means of taunting prisoners held on Canadian soil? Sure, why not, at this point?

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I mean, Canada is pretty cool about a lot of things....why not shipping fingers by courier?

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6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

She's allowed to kill people and send their body parts through the Canadian Postal System, as a means of taunting prisoners held on Canadian soil? Sure, why not, at this point?

They don't know she sent it.

And countries usually don't prosecute crimes for people who are not their citizens outside of their country.  

They could deport her though

Edited by dmc
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3 minutes ago, dmc said:

She's not a fugitive.  Because Fred is no longer in Canadian custody when he's killed or on Canadian soil

And Gilead doesn't care about him.

Yes, but killing him is somehow gonna bite her in the ass in season five.

 

Funny how in the end the most benefit from Fred's death will get Serena because she can show him off as a martyr to their fans and also now she is liberated from him and as we saw throughout  all of the seasons that it was Serena's wish from a long time ago.

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Just now, Stephanie23 said:

Yes, but killing him is somehow gonna bite her in the ass in season five.

 

Funny how in the end the most benefit from Fred's death will get Serena because she can show him off as a martyr to their fans and also now she is liberated from him and as we saw throughout  all of the seasons that it was Serena's wish from a long time ago.

Somehow I suspect it will.  

I don't know about Serena she just lost another deal

Fred's deal was voided for the 22 resistance fighters.  

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1 minute ago, dmc said:

They don't know she sent it.

And countries usually don't prosecute crimes for people who are not their citizens outside of their country.  

I'm not saying I know for a fact that the writers are going to make her a fugitive. I'm saying it is less ridiculous to make a character a fugitive, for killing a person, and sending their body part through the Canadian Postal System, as a means of taunting a prisoner on Canadian soil, than several other developments that we saw this season, and thus I could see these inept writers doing this. Since it would it enable their strongest reflex, which is to write this story as if it were titled "The Perilous Perils of June Osborne".

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Just now, Bannon said:

I'm not saying I know for a fact that the writers are going to make her a fugitive. I'm saying it is less ridiculous to make a character a fugitive, for killing a person, and sending their body part through the Canadian Postal System, as a means of taunting a prisoner on Canadian soil, than several other developments that we saw this season, and thus I could see these inept writers doing this. Since it would it enable their strongest reflex, which is to write this story as if it were titled "The Perilous Perils of June Osborne".

I mean yes.  

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14 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I mean, Canada is pretty cool about a lot of things....why not shipping fingers by courier?

As long as it isn't the middle finger. That would be quite rude, in a most unCanadian way....

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12 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Yeah, I get that it was good that the women got to attack, but I'd have rather seen him suffer under his own laws.

I enjoyed watching him get his ass beat, but I was hoping they would also leave him alive so Nick could drag him back to be tried by Gilead. But I'm also good with a headless, ringfinger-less, on the wall Commander Waterford too. 

Can't wait for Serena to get what's coming to her, especially after the way she was speaking to Tuello. Lady, you and your husband are in jail for war crimes...that you actually committed and admit to! Bitch, you don't get to demand shit from anyone. 

giphy.gif

Edited by luckyroll3
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Just now, Bannon said:

As long as it isn't the middle finger. That would be quite rude, in a most unCanadian way....

I was shocked she didn't send his middle finger but she sent the same finger Serena lost

June and Serena

Like June why name your baby Nicole

Why send the finger Serena lost?

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21 minutes ago, dmc said:

Somehow I suspect it will.  

I don't know about Serena she just lost another deal

Fred's deal was voided for the 22 resistance fighters.  

I don't doubt that Serena will somehow milk this situation.

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7 minutes ago, Stephanie23 said:

I don't doubt that Serena will somehow milk this situation.

oh definitely

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12 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I assume next season will be The Torture of Serena, June Osborne's Final Fury.  

I hope so, because right now I feel like she is getting away with it all AND getting everything she wants. 

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3 minutes ago, DanaMB said:

I hope so, because right now I feel like she is getting away with it all AND getting everything she wants. 

Who knows where this will go, but Rita's testimony alone could convict Serena of having engaged in slavery, resulting in her being imprisoned for many years or even decades, and never being a custodial parent. Gilead may even be revenge minded enough to trade for her, whereupon it may, as Serena fears, make her a Handmaid. Imagine Serena at the Red Center, being beckoned by Lydia's cattle prod, with poor, fundamentally empathetic, Janine watching. 

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That was all kinds of impossible, improbable and dumb. But for a change, it was fun. If you have to be dumb, at least be fun, I always say. I approve.

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My favorite part? Seeing Fred hung on the wall, very satisfying! Will there be any repercussions for June? It would be hard to prove. What is the legal status for no mans land? How will Nick explain loosing a high profile commander? 

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10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The question now is if, like Inigo Montoya, they know what to do with themselves not that they've gotten their pound of flesh.

Season 5 spoiler: June is the Dread Pirate Roberts!

Emotionally I enjoyed the finale, logically I really wish they hadn't left so much up for fan wanking. Not just the killing but Nick and Lawrence easily border hopping without being arrested.

Also I don't think it's realistic to have these sort of gotcha moments with prisoners. Like we don't tell an inmate he's going to be free, take him somewhere, then say sike you actually get the death penalty (though again, it was satisfying).

Edited by The Mighty Peanut
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I wasn't paying attention to details... was Moira in the killing squad? Rita? Or just Emily?

 

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10 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

What a heartwarming finale. Hate conquers all, at last. 

Or simply vengeance and very appropriate consequences? I am torn.

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9 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I loved Fred's death. Maybe it makes no sense from a logical point of view, but it was deeply satisfying from an emotional point of view. And while personally I suck at revenge, I understand why some people might need it or might find it useful. June is simply too  "damaged" to leave the past behind, especially knowing that Fred was going to be free. After all, she's never been really all that interested in healing. The thing that gets her heart pumping is revenge. And that's why she's going to leave, because she knows that she's not ready to go back to a normal life. She wants to fight against Gilead with her own hands and I guess that's what she will do next season.

And who's to say that she, Emily and the others don't feel better now? When you've been forced to become a sex slave, maybe tearing apart one of your captors is exactly what you need to get better faster. Obviously  personal revenge isn't good for society as a whole, but maybe be it can be psychologically good for some people.

Pity we didn't get to see Serena's reaction to Fred's death.

It reminds me of the families of murdered victims who watch the killers get the death penalty. I have no idea if I personally would want to see that or not, but obviously many do and feel a sense of relief and vindication. 

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6 hours ago, Trillian said:

When Fred kept calling Nick “son”, I was so expecting (and rather hoping that) he would reply “don’t call me son. I’m an officer and a lawyer and you’re under arrest you son of a bitch.”

I also thought Rita should have reacted to Serena thinking they were friends with “bitch, I was nothing but your slave!” 🤣

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

Fer' the luv' of Fonzie doing aerials over cartilaginous predatory fish, if they write an intimate relationship between Tuello and Serena next, it'll be a good thing I don't own a pistol, because I'd otherwise pull an Elvis on a 72 inch flat screen.

Same! I can’t imagine who wants that to happen, but I hate that sort of thing and it makes no sense here.

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2 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I mean, Canada is pretty cool about a lot of things....why not shipping fingers by courier?

I understand that one day delivery isn't an option, though.

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2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Would she be a fugitive? She just saved 22 women who can fight for America's freedom. She didn't personally kill Fred. Tuello was in agreement and he was the broker in all negotiations.

Canada Post is pretty reliable.  I mean if you think about it the dude who was killing cats was also shipping body parts via Canada Post.

Uh.... bad example I know but maybe Canada Post should start screening packages. 

I have not seen the episode yet but why wasn't Janine included at least in the 22 women?

Interesting point about Janine, bad writing again

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3 hours ago, Penman61 said:

 

  • What was the source of the Latin inscription ("Don't let the bastards get you down"?) below the body?
  • What was the inscription's significance? Was it what June saw on that closet wall a few seasons ago?

Yes it was the quote from the closet wall, inscribed by the first Offred (the one who hanged herself). Apparently it was one of Fred's favorite quotes, as he conveyed to June (and presumably Offered 1.0) during their secret scrabble games. 

BTW, I've seen it mentioned a few times that Fred's body was headless, but I rewound and paused and it looked hike he had a brown sack over his head. It wouldn't have been possible to hang him by the neck if he didn't have a head. 

48 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I wasn't paying attention to details... was Moira in the killing squad? Rita? Or just Emily?

Just Emily. Rita explicitly stated that she didn't want to be a part of any revenge planning, and Moira just wanted Fred gone from Canada. I was surprised that Emily participated; I thought she had gotten some closure when her former aunt hanged herself a few episodes ago. Emily also seems to really enjoy being with Oliver, so I thought she'd try to move on for his sake.

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Ya know, in the long run, I don't mind this being how Fred goes out, but what the everlovin' fuck @ the choice of music?!?

Was Girls Just Wanna Have Fun too expensive to license or something?

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16 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Yes it was the quote from the closet wall, inscribed by the first Offred (the one who hanged herself). Apparently it was one of Fred's favorite quotes, as he conveyed to June (and presumably Offered 1.0) during their secret scrabble games. 

BTW, I've seen it mentioned a few times that Fred's body was headless, but I rewound and paused and it looked hike he had a brown sack over his head. It wouldn't have been possible to hang him by the neck if he didn't have a head. 

Just Emily. Rita explicitly stated that she didn't want to be a part of any revenge planning, and Moira just wanted Fred gone from Canada. I was surprised that Emily participated; I thought she had gotten some closure when her former aunt hanged herself a few episodes ago. Emily also seems to really enjoy being with Oliver, so I thought she'd try to move on for his sake.

This might actually help her move on fully (again, much like the relatives of murdered loved  ones watching the killers’ executions).  And I say this as someone who is anti death penalty.

Edited by Cinnabon
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Serena screwed herself.  I'm thrilled about that.  Now?  She hasn't got a chance.  The only negotiating tool she ever had was Fred knowing the structure in Gilead, which Commander ran what, how decisions are made (and no, not all of that has changed in less than a year, that is silly.)

Making her demands, we saw the old Serena, the vicious, nasty, horrid woman who abused June, the egotistical bitch who pretty much dreamed up a world like Gilead, and then lost all her power when it was created.  Demanding a large house, security, for them to address Fred as "Commander" and be respectful?

She's done.  Hoisted by her own petard.  

I hope they deport her to Gilead.  I want to see the same terror in her face that we got to see in Fred's, as he ran, chased through the forest, and then faced Gilead's justice.  Particulation, something he and the other monsters devised.  A circle of handmaids ordered to beat and tear a person completely apart.  Then his dead body hung, bag over his head.

He got Gilead justice.  I loved it.

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Thinking about it, Luke is kind of a sourpuss, isn't he? So much so that it was understood without words that his and June's marriage was over...

I know if my SO had been the sex slave to a key figure in an autoritarian regime for years, I'd throw them a party once they got their, very, very, very improbable revenge.

Especially now that Fred is dead, it's mostly over, isn't it? She could finally move on, even if moving on might take years. Now she can start. So isn't that the best that could happen for you and your marriage, Luke?

It's weird. In american TV shows people are always morally outraged if the protagonist kills somebody, unless it's a nameless henchman of course, then it doesn't matter and is totally cool. I really don't get both of those directions and I don't think they are present or at least to a much lesser extend in european TV.

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While I am always glad when a character like Fred (or Serena) get their comeuppance, the lack of logic of this show and the focus again on "Fierce/Revenge June" is grating me (and I know it may be me)   First off, I get June has been through a LOT -- but we are talking about an entire group of people in Canada who have lost their country, friends, families and homes to these monsters.   Jan. 6th of this year, was disturbing enough for me to start to think about this -- I can't imagine it being even worse.  I want to see more of the "greater" story namely the fight to overthrow Gilead and have these monsters take cyanide in their basements out of fear.  I guess, I feel we've had the seasons focus almost everything on June and their is only so much of a story there with just her "anger", so I've kinda checked out on her.  I fast forward all her scenes.  I feel it would be so much better to have her character integrate with the overall nation/world building and the legit questions of what do you do with POWs, info sources, etc. so you can legit WIN the war -- not just a battle and not just revenge.  Also, how did others see what was going on in Gilead from the outside, how did things get here with the birth rate, etc.?

 

OK - enough venting.  I think I may wait on next season to see what they do with it and if it changes course like I was hoping they would do with this season again.  This is just my opinion though so I can see if people disagree.

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