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S03.E12: Mayday (Part 1) / S03.E13: Mayday (Part 2)

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Episode Description:

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Mayday (Part 1) -- The Stones are reunited with Olive, yet their happiness is quickly interrupted when they discover Cal has run away. As Michaela struggles to help the passengers avoid a deadly threat, her relationship with Jared sours over mistrust.

Mayday (Part 2) -- Ben and Saanvi undertake a treacherous mission to save someone they love, defying Eureka and the forces of nature. Driven by her most ominous Calling to date, Michaela along with Zeke race to stop a passenger before his actions turn deadly. Jared and Vance team up to save a loved one, but the partnership soon reveals secrets that could upend both mens' lives.

 

Airdate: Thursday June 10, 2021 at 8pm (2 hour season finale)

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Well.... that was.... something.  lol

Other than resenting the totally inaccurate Bible info and closely representing a real, legitimate religion, and resenting how they're pulling a "LOST" (using pseudo-religion to salvage/explain what started out as a decent sci-fi show), this season finale' was kind of interesting in a 'I wonder what they'll do next season?' way.

I'm not sure why I'm still watching this stupid show.  

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Well, I guess let that be a lesson to all mothers who don't report people who endanger the lives of their kids just because they're sweet-faced nut jobs.
I vaguely recall thinking (posting about?) when Grace's character arc took a turn towards the somewhat reasonable that it was like they dressed her in a Star Trek red shirt.

So who played 5-year-older Cal Stone???

And if Saanvi is forgiven, does that mean The Major is resurrected?

ITA with @ShowsILoveToHate about the Lostian flashbacks and, most of all:

3 minutes ago, ShowsILoveToHate said:

I'm not sure why I'm still watching this stupid show.

 

So Josh Dallas has a gray/white beard,  at 42 LOL. 

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That was kind of a crazy ending, now I want to see where they go with it. Is Grace really dead? Is Cal permanently aged up or was that some kind of vision? Did he spend five years somewhere, or did he just magically grow? But there is probably no plan. 

I am trying to remember what happened with the pilot. Did they have his dead body in the facility and it reanimated, or did he just appear in the plane before it disappeared? I sort of remember him and someone else flying off somewhere and the plane disappeared. Was that the guy we saw at the end before the plane disappeared?

I almost thought Angelina was going to kill baby Eden, and was shocked a show would do that.

Did we know Vance had young kids? He seems kind of old for a teenage son.

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29 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I am trying to remember what happened with the pilot

He and someone else took a plane up into a storm that was similar to the one that 828 originally disappeared and disappeared themselves some time in the first season.  I enjoyed the episode, but did laugh when he showed up briefly with a comical expression and the entire plane disappeared with a Bewitched like special effect.  The doctor's reaction was amusing as well.

 

29 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Grace really dead? Is Cal permanently aged up or was that some kind of vision?

with this show -- she could end up being revived or even come back from the dead, but I have a feeling she is really, truly dead.  I have kind of gotten vibes off and on the entire series that Grace might not make it to the series finale (unless tonight ends up being the , series finale).  Before they showed Savni involved with a woman, I wondered if her and Ben might end up together, especially when Grace seemed to want to end the marriage.  I suppose Savni could be bisexual, but I no longer think they will go there.  I also think Cal at the end is the real Cal right now.   Child actor Cal might have shot his last scene.

 

54 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The Major is resurrected?

I kind of was expecting her to show up sometime during this season.  It still would not surprise me if she showed up at some point.

Jared had valid reasons to be angry, but maybe because of how he behaved when they broke up in season 1, I got more of a vibe -- how dare you not choose me -- I am going to be angry and judgmental because my ego is hurt.  Michela has tried to rebuild their friendship, and he no doubt picked up on some residual feelings she has for him, but she never did anything to think that she would return to him romantically.

My biggest issue with the episodes is how lax the security is at a top notch government facility, especially with people who have already snuck into a secured area and stolen a valuable artifact and destroyed.

My other issue would be how all of the passengers were so easily swayed by the anti-Stoners.  I know Ben has been a bit out of control this season, but they actually did help a fair amount of people the first two years.  You think there would have been a couple of those people who would have spoken up in support of them.  I would have go watch the earlier episodes, but wasn't the flight attendant on good terms with Ben and Michela at the end of her story arc?  I could see her being wary of Ben and his intensity, but not be so down on him or at least have mixed feelings towards him.

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I knew psycho girl was psycho.

I bet Grace is really dead - some of her dialogue tonight screamed "I'm saying this because they're killing me off".

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That was pretty good. 

Grace I hope is not really dead, although it seems like it and they were leading to someone dying all episode. We're still stuck with Zeke but Grace they kill?

Jared really is right about Michaela, she quits being a cop but yet she spent her entire day coming and going back to the station. Expecting him to let her do what ever she wants, follow all her requests and do what ever off the book requests she has even if his job at risk. 

I guess Zeke felt things from Michaela during her heart-to-heart with Jared and that's why he wanted to talk?

 

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Yes this was a pretty good episode and a great cliffhanger.  And, no mention of lifeboats.  I’m thinking, maybe because of the tail fin being returned to the sea, perhaps that event “advanced” Cal to the age he, physically, should have been in the present.  Also, too, maybe the reason the original 828 pilot returned to the 828 cockpit, in the present, if only for a few moments.  So many questions--will be interesting to see how all these matters will be dealt with next season.  

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3 hours ago, alvajon said:

And, no mention of lifeboats.  I’m thinking, maybe because of the tail fin being returned to the sea,

Or just different writers who think “lifeboat” is a metaphor too far? “Callings” is bad enough.

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The boat Captain saying "I'm not blind" was one of the best-delivered lines all season.

Michaela is becoming real unlikeable.

I guess Olive spent two episodes at the hair salon.

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That was another hot mess of an episode. But it did the job of setting up cliffhangers that I now want to see resolved...

I still like Ben and Saanvi, despite their many flaws and mistakes. I like that Dr. Gupta finally came around to help them. 

Ugh - Eagan and Adrian. I'm already tired of them. They can go.

I get the feeling that we're supposed to root for Jared and Michaela to get back together, even though Michaela is now married to Zeke. But I don't like either Jared or Michaela, and I do like Zeke. In fact, if Zeke's marriage to Michaela does fall apart, I'd root for Zeke to find someone else. (I haven't forgotten about Jared pursuing Michaela while married and cheating on his wife. And it's annoying how Michaela always has the same upset facial expression and doesn't seem to be that great of a cop.) And what's with Jared kinda blaming Michaela for him deciding to break up with Sarah? I think he was just looking for an excuse to get out of that relationship.

So Cal is responsible for his mother's murder because he's the one who told Angelina how to get back into his home. Yet the older, teenage Cal who appears at the dying Grace's side doesn't even express any remorse or guilt. (I think that Cal is now supposed to be the same age as Olive - 17?)

It's a failing of this show that I don't feel sad or upset at the thought of Grace's death. I think it's because I never really liked her character all that much, even though Grace is supposed to be someone that the audience loves and therefore her death is causing people to "[tear] their hair out all over the world right now" (according to the show's creator, Jeff Rake). But it is disappointing that, yet again, a female character dies in order to fuel a male character's storyline (the murdered wife/girlfriend who motivates the hero's vengeance journey trope).

I'm not shocked at Grace's death. It was foreshadowed when Grace and Ben said good-bye to each other and told each other 'ILY.' That's pretty much a sign that one of them was going to die - and I doubt that anyone would think it'd be Ben.

Btw, the show did a good job of casting the teenage Cal. Ty Doran really looks like he could be the son of Josh Dallas and Athena Karkanis. Also, recasting for an older Cal is a neat way of getting rid of child Cal and not having to deal with an aging - but not aging enough - child actor (Jack Messina, who's now 13).

 manifest-teenage-cal.jpg?w=300
(source)

Edited by tv echo
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11 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I am trying to remember what happened with the pilot. Did they have his dead body in the facility and it reanimated, or did he just appear in the plane before it disappeared? I sort of remember him and someone else flying off somewhere and the plane disappeared. Was that the guy we saw at the end before the plane disappeared?

Captain Daly was distraught that everyone blamed him for 828's disappearance. He thought Fiona was behind it. He set out to prove it himself, getting the original flight data from someone who had researched it but was silenced by the government. He found a storm similar to the one they flew through on 828. He kidnapped Fiona, stole a plane, and flew into the storm. Planes were sent after him and said to have taken care of it, but we never heard anything about the plane being found or Fiona and Captain Daly being recovered. I figured he would come back at some point just didn't know when. I have to go back and rewatch but usually they would have recapped this in the "previously on manifest" at the beginning of the episode, but I don't remember seeing it so they may have left it out for the element of surprise. 

Daly didn't return until the tail fin was returned. Did the tailfin have to be dropped into the ocean for his return to be triggered? Wherever he was stuck, was he there with Fiona (and the major, whose "death" triggered the disappearance of the tail fin)? Does some strange event occur every time the plane touches the water, because supposedly the plane crashed in the ocean in the first place. 

10 hours ago, CCTC said:

Before they showed Savni involved with a woman, I wondered if her and Ben might end up together, especially when Grace seemed to want to end the marriage.  I suppose Savni could be bisexual, but I no longer think they will go there.  I also think Cal at the end is the real Cal right now.   Child actor Cal might have shot his last scene.

I kind of was expecting her to show up sometime during this season.  It still would not surprise me if she showed up at some point.

Jared had valid reasons to be angry, but maybe because of how he behaved when they broke up in season 1, I got more of a vibe -- how dare you not choose me -- I am going to be angry and judgmental because my ego is hurt.  Michela has tried to rebuild their friendship, and he no doubt picked up on some residual feelings she has for him, but she never did anything to think that she would return to him romantically.

My other issue would be how all of the passengers were so easily swayed by the anti-Stoners.  I know Ben has been a bit out of control this season, but they actually did help a fair amount of people the first two years.  You think there would have been a couple of those people who would have spoken up in support of them.  I would have go watch the earlier episodes, but wasn't the flight attendant on good terms with Ben and Michela at the end of her story arc?  I could see her being wary of Ben and his intensity, but not be so down on him or at least have mixed feelings towards him.

I agree with a lot of this. I think that the viewers mostly sensed real chemistry with Ben and Saanvi, but that's not what the writers had in mind. They addressed it somewhat when Saanvi talked about them just being friends with Ben during her therapy sessions with the major. Also, I agree that I expected the major to show up this season, because in manifest, you aren't dead until you're dead (hey Vance). Bethany (flight attendant) was on great terms with the Stones when she was on, and now she's doing their calls? The only explanation I can think of right now is that since the callings have gotten too intense, and the hate against passengers has intensified, she is trying to keep a low profile with her wife and away from them, especially since she was placed on the no fly list (as a flight attendant!) and cannot work. I was angry for Jared with how Michaela treated him. Even though she didn't ask him to, he left his wife for her (never mind the fact that I was happy, didn't like him and Lourdes together) and continually put his career on the line for the love he had for her. For her, she came back to a world in which she loved him just a week prior, however 5.5 years passed, and Jared seems to have loved her like it was a week ago. Zeke knows how each feels, unbeknownst to them, and he has a decision to make. 

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

So Cal is responsible for his mother's murder because he's the one who told Angelina how to get back into his home. Yet the older, teenage Cal who appears at the dying Grace's side doesn't even express any remorse or guilt. (I think that Cal is now supposed to be the same age as Olive - 17?)

It's a failing of this show that I don't feel sad or upset at the thought of Grace's death. I think it's because I never really liked her character all that much, even though Grace is supposed to be someone that the audience loves and therefore her death is causing people to "[tear] their hair out all over the world right now" (according to the show's creator, Jeff Rake). But it is disappointing that, yet again, a female character dies in order to fuel a male character's storyline (the murdered wife/girlfriend who motivates the hero's vengeance journey trope).

Btw, the show did a good job of casting the teenage Cal. Ty Doran really looks like he could be the son of Josh Dallas and Athena Karkanis. Also, recasting for an older Cal is a neat way of getting rid of child Cal and not having to deal with an aging - but not aging enough - child actor (Jack Messina, who's now 13).

 manifest-teenage-cal.jpg?w=300
(source)

I can't imagine how Cal kept insisting that Angelina was supposed to be there, to help, and that he knew that, but ultimately his trust in her leads to his own family's downfall. Grace has been the most polarizing character on this show for me, we have been so hot and cold with her. In the beginning the story seemed to push hate towards her because she was wrapped up with Danny and didn't embrace Ben the way people felt she should have upon his return. Once she decided she was all in on the family, she really turned the tide, especially in the shotgun scene after her brother died at the meth head's "trial". So now she is a beloved character and once she reached that status, she was killed. Pop the balloon. The casting of teenaged Cal is spot on. I love how he was blurry at first and it could have been young Cal, but when it came into focus you saw it was older Cal. I think we are done seeing young Cal, especially since Jeff Rake posted on twitter that he would be missed. He could just be joshing with us though. There are so many inferences that could be made with this scene with Grace and older Cal. So many explanations. Can't wait to see which is right. 

9 hours ago, Artsda said:

 

Grace I hope is not really dead, although it seems like it and they were leading to someone dying all episode. We're still stuck with Zeke but Grace they kill?

9 hours ago, alvajon said:

Yes this was a pretty good episode and a great cliffhanger.  And, no mention of lifeboats.  I’m thinking, maybe because of the tail fin being returned to the sea, perhaps that event “advanced” Cal to the age he, physically, should have been in the present.  Also, too, maybe the reason the original 828 pilot returned to the 828 cockpit, in the present, if only for a few moments.  So many questions--will be interesting to see how all these matters will be dealt with next season.  

Yes,all the callings led to someone being dead at the end of the episode, being at the hands of Adrian since he was the one with blood on his hands. that leads to his influence on Angelina, going to kill Grace. I don't actually believe Grace is dead though, at least not in present day. I think this was either a future scene, possibly the last scene of the series, or a calling that Cal has in the future. The callings have really evolved over the past 3 seasons, from simple voices in their heads to being physically present in places, like returning to the plane, or experiencing things in person, like the flood in Ben's basement that only he and Eagan could see and experience (hilarious scene), and the physical burns on Cal's body. 

All in all, the finale left so many great storylines to pursue for next season. Finding Angelina and Eden. Finding Cal. The fallout of Eagan and Randall, being two 828'ers who broke into the house of an NSA agent and held their son hostage, that will take 828 hate off the charts. Finding the plane and captain Daly and Fiona, will they keep the original death date like all the passengers, or will they have a new death date triggered by their second disappearance? Saanvi has been redeemed, she gets callings again, so she will test herself for the genetic anomaly again, but will she experience any side effects of having erased it in the first place. Has the Grace scene with Cal been shot out of sequence with the rest of the story? Is the major really dead? Now that Gupta has seen the plane disappear before her eyes, and the constellation drawing, has she been kicked to the other side? Will the plane turn up someone else like the tail fin? Time will tell. 

 

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12 hours ago, ShowsILoveToHate said:

Well.... that was.... something.  lol

Other than resenting the totally inaccurate Bible info and closely representing a real, legitimate religion, and resenting how they're pulling a "LOST" (using pseudo-religion to salvage/explain what started out as a decent sci-fi show), this season finale' was kind of interesting in a 'I wonder what they'll do next season?' way.

I'm not sure why I'm still watching this stupid show.  

I'm three episodes behind so I can't totally comment on the end of the season, but to the bolded.... i know right? My memory sucks and this is a show that I have never rewatched, but I have spent this whole season thinking "wasn't this show originally about maybe getting lost in some electrical storm that sent them forward in time and gave them powers or something?" I know they have never fully explained things but I feel like the original hints pointed to somewhere along those lines. Then season two happened and it started moving more and more towards pseudo religion and this season has been off the charts (resurrected? Seriously?)

Like so many "mysterious" shows, it's clear that they're making it all up as they goes along (nothing TPTB ever say will convince me otherwise) and like so many "mysterious" shows they've gone off the rails.

My favorite moment of the show is when Grace is racing through the airport parking lot or wherever, racing to see Ben and Cal after they came back. It was the emotional punch of the show that drew me in. Imagine someone who was dead coming back to you. Imagine basically going to bed one night and waking up and everything is different. Imagine being on the verge of marrying someone and when you land it turns out that the person is married to someone else, while your feelings for them are the same. Imagine getting off a plane and when you get down your wife has a new life with a new man and your daughter is a stranger. It was messy and emotional and interesting (or at least had the potential to be). Now I feel like there's nothing interesting. On an emotional level the show was a complete flat-line this season, and you can't even "participate" in the story because they don't give the audience anything we can use to figure anything out. They think "surprising" us all the time is enough, so there is no way to try to put things together or have any real theories or any of the things that make watching tv interesting and fun.

When I saw somewhere that they killed off Grace (supposedly, who knows... showrunners lie all the time, she could still make it, I guess) my first reaction was "augh just cancel this already".

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Just wondering why anyone would think Grace is really dead? Or, I should say, going to stay dead. Zeke didn't. It appears Mick Ben and Cal were all dead and here they are. I figure she will somehow be back if the show continues, which I suspect it will, but on streaming so I won't be watching. 

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10 minutes ago, chlban said:

Just wondering why anyone would think Grace is really dead? Or, I should say, going to stay dead. Zeke didn't. It appears Mick Ben and Cal were all dead and here they are. I figure she will somehow be back if the show continues, which I suspect it will, but on streaming so I won't be watching. 

Looking at the interview just posted on the media page --

Spoiler

It looks like she is really, truly dead.  It would not shock me if she somehow came back, but I have felt off and on since the first season that she might not make it to the end.

 

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

So Cal is responsible for his mother's murder because he's the one who told Angelina how to get back into his home. Yet the older, teenage Cal who appears at the dying Grace's side doesn't even express any remorse or guilt. (I think that Cal is now supposed to be the same age as Olive - 17?)

Cal's blind loyalty to Angelina bugged me, but she would have figured a way to break into that house and get that baby.   He might have given her some encouragement, but she was already on that crazy train

 

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Ugh - Eagan and Adrian. I'm already tired of them. They can go.

I liked Eagan as an occasional foil to irritate and mock Ben, but he does not really work as a big bad.   Adrian, I think could be interesting, but also think he works better in smaller doses.  

I wonder if there was a reason why the actor playing TJ could not be part of season 3.  There were no new twists with the new guy and any scene that he was in could have been played by TJ.    He also had a good rapport - chemistry with Ben.  At one point I thought he was going to end up being his son - ala -- soap fashion -- I never knew my old girlfriend was pregnant when we broke up 20 years ago, due to their scenes and  also similar coloring.

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I can at least say that I did not see that series of events coming. Damn this show, every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in. I highly doubt the show really has a solution that is going to be a satisfying conclusion to this mystery, but I am actually interested in seeing where it goes from here. Hopefully next season we can take a break from Adrian and Eagan, the crazy eyed twins, as the Big Bads though. exploring what happened to the plane and passengers is way more interesting than the wacko passengers vs the evil government with Ben and company trying to play middle man. 

It sucks that they decided to kill Grace now and not earlier when she was the most annoying character on the show, but then I guess I wouldn't feel bad about her dying. This is why we don't give clearly unstable stalkers the keys to your house Cal, they stab your mom and kidnap your sister. Aging Cal up is a decently clever way to deal with the actor clearly aging way faster than Cal is supposed to in-between seasons, and kudos to the casting department, the teenage Cal looks quite a bit like kid Cal. This could be me hanging onto a theory for too long, but is this Cal actually a Cal from an alternate universe where he was never on the plane that kid Cal switched with? He looks like he is about the age he would have been if his cancer was cured and he never got on the plane so he aged normally. 

I can only assume not all of the passengers are following Adrian and Eagan and its only the stupid ones, because I have no idea why anyone would listen to one guy who sounds like every homeless guy screaming on the subway and another guy who's obviously a massive dick high on his own self importance. Ben might be a bit manic lately, but its clear that he has been really trying to help everyone. Poor guy, imagine having to make all of these yahoos try to make good choices as your one chance to survive. 

The religious angle is at least kind of interesting, although they are clearly cherry picking random bits of passages from folklore and holy texts to try and make their story work (what the hell does Gilgamesh have to do with any of this?) obviously lacking context to better explain what the original intent probably was. It does make me curious at least. 

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The ending scene confused me-- did someone say there was a 5 year time jump or what, because I missed it, apparently. I'm looking at Grace on the floor, dying, and then there's Cal looking weird with facial hair ! I guess I'll have to go & re-watch the last part again. The part with the plane's captain confused me also, because until I read LaurelleJ's  description of what happened with him in the past I had completely forgotten about that plot thread ! I wish I enjoyed Manifest as much as I did Lost, because I used to re-watch those quite a bit, so I always remembered past plots-- with Manifest, it's about all I can stomach to sit thru each episode once. Speaking of re-watching, I was just browsing thru Netflix this afternoon & I see that they've put the 1st 2 seasons of the show on there. It's always been on Hulu, of course, but if you are cheap like me, you have to endure ads on there. On Netflix, not so.

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6 hours ago, natyxg said:

I have spent this whole season thinking "wasn't this show originally about maybe getting lost in some electrical storm that sent them forward in time and gave them powers or something?" I know they have never fully explained things but I feel like the original hints pointed to somewhere along those lines. Then season two happened and it started moving more and more towards pseudo religion and this season has been off the charts (resurrected? Seriously?)

This!  I believe except for the Star Trek NG & followers (and Picard!) I think writers don't know how to really write science fiction, and so they fall back on the easy tropes of religion.  Again, I'm not anti-religion, I just don't like how it's so integrated when convenient on this show.  Like Angelina and Adrian thinking they are messengers of God.  Work the science, guys.

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1 hour ago, willco said:

did someone say there was a 5 year time jump

I was under the impression there was no time jump on planet earth - but wherever Cal was he either was there 5 years and returned to the present day or he was aged five years instantly.  No time jump except for Cal.

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1 hour ago, jabRI said:

This!  I believe except for the Star Trek NG & followers (and Picard!) I think writers don't know how to really write science fiction, and so they fall back on the easy tropes of religion.  Again, I'm not anti-religion, I just don't like how it's so integrated when convenient on this show.  Like Angelina and Adrian thinking they are messengers of God.  Work the science, guys.

I don't mind religion and would (and have) watch shows with religious themes and tropes and angels and mythology and all that's stuff. What bothers me (deeply!) is when I start to watch a show and they change the show I'm watching halfway through and without warning.

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4 minutes ago, natyxg said:
1 hour ago, jabRI said:

This!  I believe except for the Star Trek NG & followers (and Picard!) I think writers don't know how to really write science fiction, and so they fall back on the easy tropes of religion.  Again, I'm not anti-religion, I just don't like how it's so integrated when convenient on this show.  Like Angelina and Adrian thinking they are messengers of God.  Work the science, guys.

I don't mind religion and would (and have) watch shows with religious themes and tropes and angels and mythology and all that's stuff. What bothers me (deeply!) is when I start to watch a show and they change the show I'm watching halfway through and without warning.

Thank you, that was the point i was trying to make!

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8 hours ago, chlban said:

Just wondering why anyone would think Grace is really dead? Or, I should say, going to stay dead. Zeke didn't. It appears Mick Ben and Cal were all dead and here they are. I figure she will somehow be back if the show continues, which I suspect it will, but on streaming so I won't be watching. 

Good points. If Grace does come back from Death as have many others on the show who are not even 828ers, I guess she'll have Callings, which will lead her to baby Eden.

Dear Writers: Whatever you do, Do Not have baby Eden be a rapidly aged Star Child a la V or The 4400. Please. No.

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1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

*SNIP*

Dear Writers: Whatever you do, Do Not have baby Eden be a rapidly aged Star Child a la V or The 4400. Please. No.

Well...now that we've seen it with Cal...

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54 minutes ago, MattCW said:
2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

*SNIP*

Dear Writers: Whatever you do, Do Not have baby Eden be a rapidly aged Star Child a la V or The 4400. Please. No.

Well...now that we've seen it with Cal...

Ahhhgggg! You're right! Noooo!

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Nothing on this show ever resonates for me.  Yes, I think it's a very silly show that takes itself incredibly seriously, but I've felt emotional about things that have happened on bad shows before.  Here - nothing.

It took me way too long to watch the two-parter because my mind just kept wandering.  Then I'd rewind 1-2 minutes to catch what I hadn't the first time, only for my mind to immediately wander again.

Sucks to play a mostly hated character, so too bad for Holly Taylor.  (I say mostly instead of universal since Angelina probably has some fans?  Somewhere?)

Speaking of awful characters, Calamander sucks, too.  And Olive is going to feel terrible when she gets out of the basement.

I'm not sure if Grace is really dead, either.  I think Ben's brain would explode from the overload of grief plus constant obsessing over the lifeboat and how Angelina has threatened it.  If she did kill Grace, can Angelina actually be redeemed?  And why did it look like she stabbed Grace with a sword?  That handle didn't look like a knife handle.  Did Cal tell her the Stones hide a sword in a bush next to the gnome hiding the house key?

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That was a convoluted mess, and two hours of it was difficult to take.  This series has always been out-there, but it has pretty much lost all grounding at this point.  I think once I stopped buying into the scenario, it was hard to believe in anything that was happening.  "Lost" was a wild ride, but somehow, I could believe in that "world" they created, at least until the final season.  "Manifest"'s worldbuilding is literally throwing sapphires at the wall.

It really felt like the plot was an extended Mad Libs... Michaela is wandering around a plane with ______ seeping in.  ________ opens the emergency exit door.  He sees a giant _________.  Which relates to a myth from __________.  There is no rhyme or reason to any of the cryptic Callings.  The Callings had previously helped Eagan by involving him but now he is endangering them all?  Remember that episode when Ben saved one of the methhead's brother from the warehouse fire?  So what was the point of that?  We never saw that brother again.  And then the methhead died.  

I've actually grown to like Grace (sort of) once she became supportive of Ben and the crazy supernatural stuff.  So I think it actually hurts the show to lose a character who didn't have Callings.  Plus Ben was barely tolerable this week and last week, with his loose-cannon protection of his family, and it will only get worse if he's super angry and out for revenge.  It might have been interesting to see Grace trying to deal with an aged-up Cal.

Speaking of Older Cal, that was really good casting.  I think how he will interact with Ben and Olive is one of the few things I would be looking forward to.  The other is Saanvi getting Callings again.

Then, there was all the stuff that was too much of a stretch, especially those passengers turning against Ben.  He had helped so many passengers, including the flight attendant.  I'm sure his emails were annoying, but he only went crazy on one guy who was borderline despicable, and now all this backlash?  Eagan, Adrian and the other guy were really grating.  And how the hell did Angelina end up joining them?  All that stuff with the NSA or whatever was ridiculous.  I had to laugh when they were all trying to construct a puzzle with Cal's random drawings.  Those cell phone pics were so high quality when they were printed out.  And that was one dud of an ankle bracelet.

It was really hard to feel sorry for Jared.  He knew full well how unethical the Major was.  He was the one who kept demanding the truth.  And now he knows it, and boo hoo now he has to break up with the psycho's probably psycho daughter.

Sad to say it, but after this finale, I don't think I will be all that disappointed if the series is cancelled.  Though I would continue to watch if it got renewed.  But three more seasons of this "planned" crap?  It took 13 episodes to get that blasted tail fin back in the ocean.

Edited by Camera One
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This show truly is a comedy -- because I laughed when Cal disappeared.  And then laughed again at the end when older Cal shows up with no explanation of why he aged or how he got there.

The abandoning of the word 'lifeboat' in the 2 hour season finale after being inundated with mentions of it in the previous episodes just goes to show that the writers have no idea what they are doing.

The dark lightning has barely been mentioned all season, and yet it is back with a vengeance in the season finale, what with the pilot returning from his dark lightning adventure from back in Season 1 only to vanish again with the entire plane.  Did the pilot also age 5 years like Cal ?
If they were dragging out people from Season 1, why not have Lourdes make an appearance ?

Ben and Grace were always SHOUTING in the first hour of the finale.  Ben does not look good with wet hair.

Angelina possibly killing Grace and then baptizing and kidnapping baby Eden was hilarious -- since Cal kept saying in previous episodes that Angelina was a "part of the family" and they were "connected".  Apparently a connected murderous, kidnappy part of the family.  Good call Cal !! #sarcasm

Ben's glowing hand is back -- when has he had time to resume his nocturnal activities ?  :)

Was there any payoff to Eagen's vision of the bird outside the plane after he opened the door ?  Other than the tale of evil Noah ?
Because that CGI was so bad.

And I never laughed so hard when Cal's drawings turned out to be the star pattern from Dr. Gupta's childhood.  Seriously, WTF ?

The callings are so incredibly vague that first Ben wants to destroy the tailfin, then wants to drop it in the ocean.  Seriously, whoever is running the callings is a bit of a dick.

Who was watching Beverly while Michaela and Zeke were out Scooby-Dooing all day to solve the bloody plane calling ?  Even when they went back to their house there was no mention of her.

Will Jared tell his new girlfriend that Saanvi killed her mother ?  Because that could be awkward at the next 828er pot luck.

So the whole deal with Cal's glowing burns meant nothing at all.  That was waste of time.  Does older Cal still have glowing burns ?

Ben (to Dr. Gupta): "Listen to yourself -- you're guessing."
That is all Ben does is guess when it comes to the callings, because they are so incredibly vague.

When Ben drew that line on the map from "where we are now" to the "heart of the constellation" I laughed again -- that was so much bullshit.   For starters, that line was not even headed east, more like southeast.   

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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Somehow I thought this show had been renewed —but it’s still on the bubble?

The most eye-rolling bits for me were always Ben Stone magically having revelations with no explanation for this super power other than the title of “Professor.” Nevertheless, if the show continues, he could easily have a revelation that Grace is still alive in some other dimension or universe, and it is his mission to find her. 
If that happens, it will likely be up to Jared and Michaela to find Baby Eden.

But I see that Zoo (Athena Karkanis‘ other Sharknado-like series) only had 3 seasons. So perhaps this is the end of the line for 828 as well.

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I am kind of curious if they will address or come up with a reason why the callings led Michela to find Angelina and bring her back to NY. 

If the callings and this is set in motion by some higher power -- it certainly is not a benevolent one.   

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1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

But I see that Zoo (Athena Karkanis‘ other Sharknado-like series) only had 3 seasons. So perhaps this is the end of the line for 828 as well.

Random comment, but whenever I see her name I can't help but think that Athena is such an awesome name.

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FYI, TV Insider published another article in which creator Jeff Rake and Josh Dallas answered questions about what happened this season. However, Rake also talked (generally) about what would happen in Season 4 (if there is a Season 4). So I've posted this article in the Spoilers thread here. Questions asked and answered in this article include:

- Where has Captain Daly been?
- Where did Captain Daly and the plane disappear to?
- How will Ben handle things that happened in Season 3?
- What's next with Michaela and the love triangle?
- Has Saanvi redeemed herself because she had a Calling again?
- Is Angelina a villain of the week or a Big Bad?

(Warning: if you don't want to read Rake's explanations and plans, don't go there.)

Edited by tv echo
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12 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

Sucks to play a mostly hated character, so too bad for Holly Taylor.  (I say mostly instead of universal since Angelina probably has some fans?  Somewhere?)

She played a hated character on The Americans too. Holly Taylor is from the next town over from me, and when she was on that show she did an interview with a local magazine. She said people would come up to her when she was out in public and say, "I really don't like Paige" (her character The Americans). And she said she'd just respond with something like, "Well, I'm sorry, but she's not me, she's just a character I play." It seems kind of rude to approach to actress to tell her you dislike something.

She'll probably get more hate for Angelina, but she seems like she's probably really nice in real life.

Maybe people who hate Grace are fans of Angelina?

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5 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

She played a hated character on The Americans too.…people would come up to her when she was out in public and say, "I really don't like Paige" (her character The Americans). And she said she'd just respond with something like, "Well, I'm sorry, but she's not me, she's just a character I play." It seems kind of rude to approach to actress to tell her you dislike something.

She'll probably get more hate for Angelina, but she seems like she's probably really nice in real life

I would think a more effective response to fans of a show telling the actor of the villain that they don’t like the character would be: 

  • Thank you for sharing that. I was hoping viewers would hate that horrible character I am playing.

But I’m not an actor on a national TV show. Maybe those who play villains get attached to their characters in order to play the role convincingly and cannot be as flippant or detached off screen as I am suggesting. 

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11 hours ago, Camera One said:

That was a convoluted mess, and two hours of it was difficult to take.

THIS ↑ a thousand times.

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1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I would think a more effective response to fans of a show telling the actor of the villain that they don’t like the character would be: 

  • Thank you for sharing that. I was hoping viewers would hate that horrible character I am playing.

But I’m not an actor on a national TV show. Maybe those who play villains get attached to their characters in order to play the role convincingly and cannot be as flippant or detached off screen as I am suggesting. 

Well on The American's her character wasn't a villain and I don't think the writers intended for her to be hated. But fans just tend to hate the teenager children on a show about adults.

On Manifest, I think we were supposed to originally like her, but start to hate her when we realized she was crazy.

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20 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

On Manifest, I think we were supposed to originally like her, but start to hate her when we realized she was crazy.

I think that's where the Angelina character just didn't work.  It was whiplash.  Even in this episode, the joining of the "Ben Stone is the harbinger of the apocalypse" coalition was sudden and undeveloped.  Kidnapping the baby was one thing, but bringing a knife and killing Grace with it?  If she was that crazy, why not off Olive too?

Quote

She'll probably get more hate for Angelina

I don't think she needs to worry about that on this show.  "You recognize me from Manifest?"  "Manifest of what?"

The actress was pretty charismatic in the first half of the season, so I don't think she would be typecast.

From Jeff Rake Interview:

Quote

we’re gonna continue to explore those complicated themes as we go forward. 

He thinks this show and this episode "explores" "complicated" themes.   It's not just Angelina who's delusional, LOL.

Edited by Camera One
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On 6/11/2021 at 12:44 AM, Artsda said:

Jared really is right about Michaela, she quits being a cop but yet she spent her entire day coming and going back to the station. Expecting him to let her do what ever she wants, follow all her requests and do what ever off the book requests she has even if his job at risk. 

Jared would have had no problem with it if he was still with Michaela romantically.  But that shit bag has nothing to complain about given the way he dumped the person he was involved with once Michaela came back in season one.  And wasn't the woman he dumped pregnant at the time?  Even if she wasn't, no one deserves to be a standby in any relationship.  Jared got what he deserved, and he can't handle it.  Boo fuckin' hoo, Jared.  I will take Zeke any day of the week over that shit bag Jared.

Oh, and note to Jared, when Michaela came back, you were under no obligation to get back with her.  You were already set to marry someone else.   You made that choice, don't go blaming Michaela for that you petulant little child.  Grow the fuck up.  Own your shit.  I don't want to hear any of that "the heart wants what the heart wants" crap.  That is just an excuse to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions.  I don't think I have hated a character more, he really is a shitty human being.  Jared isn't a victim.  In his line of work, he must see victims everyday, and yet he somehow makes himself out to be a victim.

On a lighter note, I hope the new and improved Cal can act a lot better than the other one.  Maybe Cal took acting classes while he was "away".

As soon as Angelina blocked the door, why didn't Olive remove the ankle bracelet?   That should have brought the cops in a heart beat.  I guess she isn't as smart as she thinks she is.

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Just had a chance to watch. I don’t hate-watch this show as so many others in this forum do. Yes it’s a cheesy show and certainly not the best thing on tv but it entertains me and that’s pretty much all I can ask. Anyway, I found the finale fairly riveting and I’m going to be super upset if it gets canceled and I don’t get to find out what happens next. 
Here’s to hoping for another season! 
 

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I wasn't thinking about Angelina in the lifeboat, killing Grace and stealing Eden, who likely gets callings. All of the season Ben is trying to keep the lifeboat afloat by saving the passengers. The passenger that he let into his own house killed his wife and lifeboat in one action. How in the world can Angelina be redeemed? Ben probably won't even allow it. That's what leads me to believe that the Grace killing scene is in the future and didn't happen as we saw it, or at least there's a chance that it was a calling that Cal believes he can prevent from happening. Remember, in Cal and Ben's calling, Ben was in the ocean and rescued Cal. That didn't happen when the time came. 

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I laughed scornfully for the first hour and 58 minutes. Then I was intrigued by the older Cal emerging from the haze, and if Grace is dead, or just TV-dead.

I could easily live without this show and cannot understand why I watch it. It has no connective tissue. Everything is random and contradictory to what came before. The dialogue is trite and most of the acting is wooden. 


Cal is the “sensitive” one who is most deeply connected to the callings, but the callings told him that Angelina is supposed to be part of the family. Good call on your calling there, Cal.

 

Ben begs everyone to trust him, then when things go wrong he admits he was mistaken, but trust him THIS time. Over and over. 
 

Who was watching Eden while the other family members are at NSA? Olive? And no one at all was with Beverly.

 

When Michaela returned from 828,  Jared was married to Michaela’s friend, right? Who is also pregnant? So that’s a plot line the writers decided was inconvenient. Better to have Zeke join the love triangle and jettison Jared’s wife.

 

I really did enjoy Lost. The characters’ flashbacks intrigued me, and in my opinion it didn’t get really stupid until the end. To me this was stupid since the pilot. I’ll blame it all on being locked down, even though that’s not why I watch it. I don’t know why. I suppose for moments like the very end, with 5 years or so  older Cal. That one moment interested me.

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45 minutes ago, Arkay said:

When Michaela returned from 828,  Jared was married to Michaela’s friend, right? Who is also pregnant? So that’s a plot line the writers decided was inconvenient. Better to have Zeke join the love triangle and jettison Jared’s wife.

Jared was married to Michaela's friend, but the last time we saw her she was not pregnant. They were just talking about wanting to get pregnant, but then Jared changed his mind and dumped her.

I think it would be interesting to see if she and Michaela could ever salvage some form of friendship, but the show isn't interested in that kind of story.

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4 hours ago, srpturtle80 said:

Just had a chance to watch. I don’t hate-watch this show as so many others in this forum do. Yes it’s a cheesy show and certainly not the best thing on tv but it entertains me and that’s pretty much all I can ask. Anyway, I found the finale fairly riveting and I’m going to be super upset if it gets canceled and I don’t get to find out what happens next. 
Here’s to hoping for another season! 

I agree, this show is cheesy, and convoluted, but is entertaining.  I wouldn’t be too upset if it was cancelled, although the ONLY plot I want the answer to is... what actually happened with the plane, initially.  Did it go through a worm hole, a time warp?  Just explain it did and be done.

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18 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Jared was married to Michaela's friend, but the last time we saw her she was not pregnant. They were just talking about wanting to get pregnant, but then Jared changed his mind and dumped her.

They were married?  I thought they were about to get married (engaged)?  I suffer through watching all of these episodes once, I just don't have the stomach to watch them a second time.  And the first season was so long ago, and my memory is really bad.

I know I go overboard when I talk about Jared, but man I can't stand that guy.

Edited by icemiser69
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16 hours ago, alvajon said:

I agree, this show is cheesy, and convoluted, but is entertaining.  

Agreed - except that especially in the last three or four episodes, the characters are just doing so much shouting to get their points across. Bad acting, bad writing, bad direction, all three? I don't know, but it was almost enough for me to just give up on it. Ben has been the worst culprit but he's not alone. As in real life, yelling does not usually make your point more compelling, and here it has seemed to substitute for having a coherent argument: "I know I was wrong last time! But this time I'm sure I'm right! So you should believe me!!"  

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20 hours ago, alvajon said:

I agree, this show is cheesy, and convoluted, but is entertaining. 

They should include that in their network promos.

Manifest -- cheesy and convoluted.
Thursdays at 8 on NBC.

 

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7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I know I go overboard when I talk about Jared, but man I can't stand that guy.

Heh, I finally realized I am able to ignore the terrible writing (retconning? they couldn't have planned it like this, could they?) for the character of Jared because his makeup looks so orange on my TV that it prevents me from thinking of anything else when he's on screen. 

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4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh, I finally realized I am able to ignore the terrible writing (retconning? they couldn't have planned it like this, could they?) for the character of Jared because his makeup looks so orange on my TV that it prevents me from thinking of anything else when he's on screen. 

This episode just reminded me as to why I hate the character so much. 

With every thing that is going on with the 828ers, it is easy to understand why they are freaking out.  They are being persecuted and they have to deal with the death date.

Jared has no excuse.  Michaela and the rest of the 828ers had no control over what happened to them.  So why is Jared blaming Michaela for coming back? 

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To give Jared a tiny bit of credit, because his character doesn't bother me that much, Michaela came back 5.5 later years for him, but it was 2 days for her. He had married her best friend (foul) but it only took a few moments with her for him to have all his feelings rushing back. Her feelings supposedly never left in the 2 days since the plane landed. She tried to leave him alone for Lourdes' sake, but then slept with Jared while he was still married to Lourdes, helping him commit adultery. Then she leaned on him heavily at work. But she expects him to turn off all feelings and follow her blindly. She knows how he feels about her and still leads him on. I believe a small part of Michaela's character thought that if Zeke didn't survive the death date, she would have gotten back together with Jared. Now that Zeke is an empath and knows that Michaela still has feelings for Jared, things should get pushed out into the open. Sidenote: Jared is HOT. 

Edited by LaurelleJ · Reason: typos
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What a strange little show. I don’t know why I keep watching shows like this - 4400, Lost, V, Fallings Skies etc. and they ALWAYS turn a really cool original premise into a convoluted mess by the end. Maybe these shows should just be one really good season and leave it at that. That said, I thought the aging up of Cal was a cool twist and amazing casting. I like Grace and Ben together so I’m sad to see that seemingly end plus it just means more SHOUTING & ANGST from the Stones so… that’s fun. Also what’s the point of the callings if it only warned Michaela about Grace’s murder right before it happened?
 

As a side note I only started watching the show again a season or two ago after falling off in the middle of season one because I’m a fan of Matt Long. But not sure if I’m a fan enough for a stupid love triangle. Ugh. Poor guy always gets cast in one season and done shows or as the love interest that gets dumped (Private Practice). Sigh. 

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On 6/12/2021 at 8:33 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

This show truly is a comedy -- because I laughed when Cal disappeared.  And then laughed again at the end when older Cal shows up with no explanation of why he aged or how he got there.

The abandoning of the word 'lifeboat' in the 2 hour season finale after being inundated with mentions of it in the previous episodes just goes to show that the writers have no idea what they are doing.

The dark lightning has barely been mentioned all season, and yet it is back with a vengeance in the season finale, what with the pilot returning from his dark lightning adventure from back in Season 1 only to vanish again with the entire plane.  Did the pilot also age 5 years like Cal ?
If they were dragging out people from Season 1, why not have Lourdes make an appearance ?

Ben and Grace were always SHOUTING in the first hour of the finale.  Ben does not look good with wet hair.

Angelina possibly killing Grace and then baptizing and kidnapping baby Eden was hilarious -- since Cal kept saying in previous episodes that Angelina was a "part of the family" and they were "connected".  Apparently a connected murderous, kidnappy part of the family.  Good call Cal !! #sarcasm

Ben's glowing hand is back -- when has he had time to resume his nocturnal activities ?  :)

Was there any payoff to Eagen's vision of the bird outside the plane after he opened the door ?  Other than the tale of evil Noah ?
Because that CGI was so bad.

And I never laughed so hard when Cal's drawings turned out to be the star pattern from Dr. Gupta's childhood.  Seriously, WTF ?

The callings are so incredibly vague that first Ben wants to destroy the tailfin, then wants to drop it in the ocean.  Seriously, whoever is running the callings is a bit of a dick.

Who was watching Beverly while Michaela and Zeke were out Scooby-Dooing all day to solve the bloody plane calling ?  Even when they went back to their house there was no mention of her.

Will Jared tell his new girlfriend that Saanvi killed her mother ?  Because that could be awkward at the next 828er pot luck.

So the whole deal with Cal's glowing burns meant nothing at all.  That was waste of time.  Does older Cal still have glowing burns ?

Ben (to Dr. Gupta): "Listen to yourself -- you're guessing."
That is all Ben does is guess when it comes to the callings, because they are so incredibly vague.

When Ben drew that line on the map from "where we are now" to the "heart of the constellation" I laughed again -- that was so much bullshit.   For starters, that line was not even headed east, more like southeast.   

I missed some parts, but was wondering about Beverly too.  This was so ridiculous....I squealed with delight. Just hilariously bizarre.

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