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PRIMETIMER
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S01.E01: Glorious Purpose

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13 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I would think the "prime" timeline would be the one that the majority of timelines follow (think something like 89%) and the rest get pruned so that the timelines have no significant fluctuations or deviant branches.

One thing really bothered me, but I am not sure if it is significant. At 11:15 the Miss Minutes TVA reel showed an image of the Earth with a TVA logo stamped over it. Having that picture of the Earth made me think that the TVA's scope is smaller than I believe it is, since I believe they operate on a universal and multidimensional scale. I think the production crew placing the image of the Earth in the instructional TVA video was a poor choice.

Prime according to who, though? And with what agenda?

That's a good point about the Earth logo, I had also noticed that while the All Knowing Timekeepers appeared to not be human, all the TVA minions that we've seen so far seem to be, so this particular facility might be Earth-specific. It also might actually be pretty low on the Corporate food chain. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

That's a good point about the Earth logo, I had also noticed that while the All Knowing Timekeepers appeared to not be human, all the TVA minions that we've seen so far seem to be, so this particular facility might be Earth-specific. 

If that’s true, the Skrull variant that showed up in the beginning of the episode could become important later.

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Wow, that was good.  So glad it did not disappoint.  Tom Hiddleston owns this, no doubt, but he's got an interesting plot as well as a great supporting cast.

That life reel couldn't have been easy to watch, but it had to be done.  What I didn't get was that they never referenced the first Thor movie, or what happened to the Frost Giants.  There's no question of mind control or influence when it came to that.  Loki's actions on Asgard were entirely his own.  He tried to wipe out a whole race of people just to keep his secret hidden, and I couldn't believe that Mobius never brought that up.  

The rest of it worked, though.  The best part was when Loki quietly admitted that all the insults he hurled at Mobius and the TWA was just Loki projecting his own insecurities.  As wonderfully hammy Loki can be, that scene was beautifully acted and it really drove home that he couldn't run from the truth any longer.  Plus, he finally realized that Mobius was right about Loki's existence was solely to lift up and motivate others to be better, while being a monster and constantly losing on his own.  Glorious purpose, indeed.

Loki spent the whole time arguing how everyone else was at fault (the Avengers, his brother, the TWA) and how wronged he had been.  But once he saw the future, deep down he couldn't deny it that he would have done those things.  Like what happened to Frigga.  Loki would never hurt Frigga, but he would lead an enemy to his brother's room out of spite.  It just didn't go the way he planned and I couldn't blame Mobius for throwing that back in his face, that Loki was the main cause of his mother's death.   

Glad they didn't drag out who the "unknown variant" was.  There's plenty of mystery already.

Owen Wilson is great in this and he and Hiddleston work well together. Still, I'm wondering if Mobius' actions aren't sincere.  Something felt off when he was first talking to Loki, like the whole "I'm a fan of yours" thing.

Seeing the Infinity Stones in that desk was a gut punch.  All the blood, sweat, and tears that have been wasted over those things, just for them to sit collecting dust or as some useless paperweight.  I think that was when Loki realized that he wasn't dealing with amateurs.

On a more lighthearted note, loved the kitchy 70s vibe of the TWA, and all the bored bureaucrats.  And I loved Casey.  They need to keep him around.  Same with agent B-15.  Poor woman must have been sick after Loki was playing with that time jumping device.

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1 hour ago, silverstream said:

Was there something I missed? From what I understood, they simply reset the timeline to the point at which it diverged from the "true" timeline, so basically it's similiar to erasing the last 30 or so minutes (or more like 3 when you take the Mongolians) from everybody's mind.

I took reset and prune to be euphemisms for killing. Remember the clerk was upset about almost being reset when the person attacking Loki disintegrated something next to him. It appears that they're erasing any potential timeline other than the 'sacred' timeline.

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Curious what million “possible futures” Dr. Strange viewed with the Time Stone in Infinity War if the TVA ensures only the Sacred Timeline exists.  I suppose the Time Stone lets you see all possible branches, but only the “right one” would be allowed to come to fruition (even if you don’t know which that will be).   
 

Seems like the Time Stone would be a major pain in the neck for the TVA.

But I also sort of agree with Loki; who gave the Timekeepers the right (or power?) to decide the proper timeline?  

Edited by jcin617
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Why does Loki speak English?

Nobody in the TVA seems to care that there's a Variant running around loose.

Is Kablooie a reference to something Marvel related?

Could anybody read what was on the drink can?

Executive producer Tom Hiddleston.

The set designer seems to be a Cleveland Browns fan.

I wonder if the TVA will become involved in the Doctor Strange movie.

 

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I got a strong Quantum Leap vibe from Hiddleston and Wilson and I don't hate that. But it's not really Marvel ( which is a plus for me). The same set up could have been created with TH as a different character and would work just as well.

Admittedly I was a little bored during the psychobabble session. I think Mobius only bothered asking all the questions because he's trying to get into the head of the one he's hunting.

My prediction: Mobius betrays Loki in some way. Promises freedom if Loki helps them, then doesn't deliver on the promise, so Loki decides to become a self fulfilling prophecy and sets the world on fire. He creates a new timeline, and Mobius feels responsible for the destruction.

So he and Loki keep looping, and the loop won't stop until they fix their issues.

I've forgotten what a strong presence Owen Wilson is. SO underrated an actor.

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Is Kablooie a reference to something Marvel related?

Could anybody read what was on the drink can?

Kablooie might be, according to this article at ScreenCrush.

The drink can was "Josta". It's an ongoing production detail to have discontinued products around.

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On 6/9/2021 at 2:02 PM, Llywela said:

I enjoyed this first episode - although, as with TFATWS I found it all a bit male-heavy. They've got some great female actors on their cast, it's a shame to see them taking such a back seat while the men stand in the spotlight. But then, that's Marvel all over. Intrigued to see where the story goes next.

I assume that Gugu's character will have a bigger role in future episodes. (It also seemed as though she and Owen's character have a personal relationship.)

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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 I took the significance of Kablooie just to be that they were in the 16th century and the child had chewing gum, signifying interaction with the variant seeing that would be an anomaly in that timeline. 

Quote

I got a strong Quantum Leap vibe from Hiddleston and Wilson and I don't hate that. But it's not really Marvel 

Phase 4 seems to be leaning heavily - if not completely focused on - the multiverse  which I don't love because so many plot holes are created when it comes to timey-wimey stuff.  Already people are saying if the TVA is about stopping anomalies from being fostered then what about Steve going back to another timeline or Dr. Strange and The Ancient One's talk of different timelines. 

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Loki declaring, he “does not enjoy hurting people," was pretty monumental. I'm all in. (even thought I maintain they should have released these on Fridays).

Loki realizing that he had sent his Mother’s killer right to her was a serious gut punch, beautifully acting by Hiddleston. I personally enjoyed spending quality time with this character in all his good, bad and ugly dimensions. The Avengers movies did not leave time to really explore him, so this felt like a treat. He and Owen Wilson do have amazing chemistry.

When Mobius told Loki he was meant to bring chaos so others could be their best: I don't think it's as negative as it initially sounds. I'm sure there's more layers to be revealed. Lightworkers believe they are here to bring light to others, to help them on their journeys. He could be some darker version of that. I also love his questioning Loki about his compulsion to "Rule": what will you do then? And then? What truly is your Glorious Purpose? Will that truly bring you happiness? These are questions that should be brought up with this fake rule in Thor Ragnorak. Was he truly fulfilled when he had free reign?

I loved having two women of color as the 2nd and 3rd leads and we had a female director again. And I can't wait to dig into why they chose this 70s motif for the show aesthetic. 

Lastly, SO…Steve fiddling with the timeline in Endgame was okay with the TVA?

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Like most time controlling agencies, the TVA most likely has a hidden agenda. Since we've seen people mess with time, The Avengers and create pocket universes, Wanda and the TVA did nothing. It leans more towards them only interfering in things they don't like and reseting it. They want the timeline to follow the path they want it to follow. 

If Steve took himself out of the timeline then that is another Avenger they don't have to deal with when they reveal their final plan for the world. 

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I was not disappointed. 

I don't think it is Loki they are hunting. It is a classic trick where they are not showing the "villain's" face.

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My suspicion is that it's what Rogue Loki looks like that they are hiding. I also suspect that Rogue Loki knows something that the TVA wants to keep secret, but that even Mobius doesn't know/realize that yet. 

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Really good episode and Loki definitely had the best premiere episode of the Disney Plus Marvel series so far.  Tom Hiddleston has been an MVP in the MCU and reaffirmed that in this episode.   Loki's reactions to his future were strong, as was realizing how stuff like Infinity stones meant nothing where he was now.  Owen Wilson played Owen Wilson again but that's all right because he's entertaining and likable.  I like the hidden world of the TVA and adding another corner to the MCU.  The DB Cooper bit was surprising but great fun.  The variable thing is a good storyline and makes sense.  Very much looking forward to more, especially with the time travel element.

I can't help but notice how much Hiddleston looks like Joaquin Phoenix from the (terrible) Joker movie.

Edited by benteen
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Speaking as a devoted longtime Agents of SHIELD fan I'm glad Mobius didn't talk about Coulson coming back from the dead and giving the details how. I had to endure half of season 1 to find out, I don't want outsiders just getting it handed to them by Owen Wilson!

Edited by VCRTracking
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I was thinking about the TVA and the fact that they exists fixes one of the big things I hate about alternate universe stories. Because it seems like anytime a sci Fi type show goes to an alternate universe it is one that is only slightly different than their own. But in reality if there are a crapload (or an infinite number of) alternate universes most of the time when you go to another one it should be one where like humans never evolved. But the TVA clips off all those ones so we are just left with ones that are pretty close to the main timeline.

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On 6/9/2021 at 1:01 PM, Spartan Girl said:

So everything The Avengers did was supposed to happen and therefore not the TVA’s concern? Are they sure they meant everything? *looks askance at Steve then sighs* Whatever, it’s not worth it.

 

I guess this just means he did indeed go back to an earlier point in the prime timeline and him being with Peggy was always supposed to happen.

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2 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

was always supposed to happen.

... according to TPTB at the TVA. This feels like an important distinction at this point, that everything the TVA is saying is in support of their own actions. And we don't know yet who they are or what their motivations are. Even them saying they're trying to prevent the 'chaos' of the multiverse is just... something they've said. 

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8 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

... according to TPTB at the TVA. This feels like an important distinction at this point, that everything the TVA is saying is in support of their own actions. And we don't know yet who they are or what their motivations are. Even them saying they're trying to prevent the 'chaos' of the multiverse is just... something they've said. 

Especially since there was a war with multiple timelines and now there is just one. All that talk of chaos could easily be the talk of the winning timeline in the war.

I'm interested in the other Loki. Everyone is assuming that it's a variant from earlier in his life, but what if it's later in his life after he started his redemption arc. (As an example what if there was a Loki that managed to kill Thanos only for the TVA to show up and 'reset' the timeline).

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2 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

Especially since there was a war with multiple timelines and now there is just one. All that talk of chaos could easily be the talk of the winning timeline in the war.

I'm interested in the other Loki. Everyone is assuming that it's a variant from earlier in his life, but what if it's later in his life after he started his redemption arc. (As an example what if there was a Loki that managed to kill Thanos only for the TVA to show up and 'reset' the timeline).

Exactly... the 'winning' side writing the history.

And I'm wondering if Rogue Loki is a Loki from another 'approved' timeline (because I do think the multiverse already exists, but the TVA controls them and keeps that info as 'need to know'). 

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20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I LOOOOOOOVE this! This is going to be so much fun! And I'm only going to comment on the fun stuff and the frustrating timey-wimey stuff.

But, but, but...The first scenes? With Loki shifting back and forth as Steve? Was that footage that was cut and left to wither on the cutting floor? Or did they reshoot that? Because...STEVE!!! (Shut up! He's still my favorite!)

I don't know about anyone else, but I laughed my ass off at Loki spinning and twisting that time thingie, making that agent say "Stop...it....stop it...stopitstopitstopit" and then making her ass disappear.

I agree. The first episode was a lot of fun and went by fast.

Steve Rogers will always be my Captain America. That was fun watching Loki shifting back and forth as Steve and when I was watching it I was wondering if that was a reshoot probably not but that would be cool if Chris shot that short scene for this.

I laughed too when Loki was spinning that time thingy with the agent.

I got a kick out of Casey not knowing what a fish was and didn't get the gut you like a fish reference. Hope we see more of him.

Owen Wilson's laid back acting style works here, it reminds me of Agent Coulson style.

Tom Hiddleston knocked it out of the park and Loki is a character I love to hate.

I'm glad this forum is here to help me understand the time travel that's happening because time travel gives me a headache, lol.

 

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24 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

... according to TPTB at the TVA. This feels like an important distinction at this point, that everything the TVA is saying is in support of their own actions.

That's possible but completely beside my point, which was that Steve ended up with Peggy in the very timeline that all MCU movies take place in. This should be of note because there have been debates about this. 

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51 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

I guess this just means he did indeed go back to an earlier point in the prime timeline and him being with Peggy was always supposed to happen.

Did the TVA cartoon say there is only one timeline or just that alternate timelines can't be too different from the main one?

The thing I can't wrap my head around is that Tony and Steve were somehow supposed to have to go to the 70's to get the tesseract but Loki wasn't supposed to steal the tesseract after the battle of NY. But how can you have one without the other?

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32 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

That's possible but completely beside my point, which was that Steve ended up with Peggy in the very timeline that all MCU movies take place in. This should be of note because there have been debates about this. 

Did he, though? 😉 Even in this first ep here, based on the exposition and what they showed, I think the door is open for a lot of new possibilities. And like Kel Varnsen said, the events are already contradicting the exposition so it might be more complicated than what we currently know. It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

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8 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Did he, though? 😉 Even in this first ep here, based on the exposition and what they showed, I think the door is open for a lot of new possibilities. And like Kel Varnsen said, the events are already contradicting the exposition so it might be more complicated than what we currently know. It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

Is it? The animated comic was quite clear in that there is only one timeline. Had Steve created an alternate it would have been reset and Steve wouldn't have been able to grow old in it and then return to give Falcon his shield. 

Edited by mrspidey
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I am not going to revisit the whole ending of Endgame (pardon the pun), but only to point this out because the TVA said it in the episode. I think the only reason they said it happened because it was supposed to happen was to keep this show separate from the debate still going on over the movie, due to the fucking writers and directors. I'm all LALALALALALALAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and just going to enjoy Loki's journey here, and swoon over Hiddleston.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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A really great first episode!

I loved how Loki tried to deal with the absurdist mess that is the TVA. First he played along, then he tried to lie his way out and when that didn't work, he just rubbished the whole thing and did a runner until he found those Infinity Stones in the drawer (I love that scene) and realized that this was real, it was happening and it was beyond his control.

Seeing Loki run through the whole of his MCU escapades was also some fine acting, like the way he flinched away every time he saw the Avengers on screen, or the look on his face when he saw Frigga's death and just couldn't parse it or his plain disbelieving laughter when he saw his death.

I'm really interested in this Evil Variant Loki. His MO is so radically different from the Loki we know with the lack of ego and grandstanding that it makes me very curious what exactly happened to him.

Edited by Diapason Untuned
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1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

... according to TPTB at the TVA. This feels like an important distinction at this point, that everything the TVA is saying is in support of their own actions. And we don't know yet who they are or what their motivations are. Even them saying they're trying to prevent the 'chaos' of the multiverse is just... something they've said. 

It seems likely to me that the Time Keepers are acting to ensure the timeline that results in their own existence. I'm skeptical that there are any benevolent motivations for their mission statement beyond that.

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1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

It seems likely to me that the Time Keepers are acting to ensure the timeline that results in their own existence.

Oooh, I love that idea as a primary motivating factor.  Particularly because it highlights how important technology/weapons are in the outcome of conflicts. 

Edited by Wynterwolf

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There’s a French-language network in Quebec called TVA, and it’s gonna take me a while not to think of it when I’m watching the show 😄

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I thought that there were only six Infinity Stones.  Exactly six.  I didn't pause and count them, but it sure looked like more than six in Casey's desk drawer, plus Casey said that they had a lot of them and some guys use them for paperweights.

So... there are only six in our universe, but this show (or at least the TVA) exists outside of or beyond our universe?  Something like that?

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2 minutes ago, Orbert said:

I thought that there were only six Infinity Stones.  Exactly six.  I didn't pause and count them, but it sure looked like more than six in Casey's desk drawer, plus Casey said that they had a lot of them and some guys use them for paperweights.

So... there are only six in our universe, but this show (or at least the TVA) exists outside of or beyond our universe?  Something like that?

I think it was meant to show that they've collected several duplicates from time lines that they've "reset". So like the Tesseract that Loki had, when they reset his time line, it went back to a point where it was still in that time line. But the one Loki had was a duplicate from the branch. 

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3 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

I think it was meant to show that they've collected several duplicates from time lines that they've "reset". So like the Tesseract that Loki had, when they reset his time line, it went back to a point where it was still in that time line. But the one Loki had was a duplicate from the branch. 

But if they reset the timeline back to the point before Loki grabs the tesseract then Tony Stark from 2023 can grab it creating another timeline.

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41 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But if they reset the timeline back to the point before Loki grabs the tesseract then Tony Stark from 2023 can grab it creating another timeline.

...which then Steve was assumed to have gone back and undone - resetting the time line again - once they stopped Thanos. But my thing was, if they needed that gizmo they used at the beginning of the ep when they 'reset' Loki's timeline, how was Steve able to do it without that gizmo? There is still a tone of handwavy stuff happening, and I'm not at all confident they care to nail it down. So I suspect it will still just be left as wibbly-wobbly, timey wimey stuff. Which... leaves a lot of possible head canons for a lot of things, both for this series and for prior movie.

 

Eta: Oh, you mean why wasn't it here for Tony to take.  Maybe they didn't clip that branch all the way back. Maybe there is still a nub? Like if they reset Loki back to just before he teleported maybe, and had someone stop him? I'm not convinced that the TVA aren't cultivating branches for their own purposes, but just ones that they are controlling so... it's an intriguing question.  

Edited by Wynterwolf · Reason: finally understood the question
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Good recap of Episode 1, and for Umbrella Academy fans, a mention of some similarities to the Commission in the "Thoughts and Asides" near the end.  Some of the comments also mention the Time Masters in Legends of Tomorrow and Legion shows up, too!

https://www.tor.com/2021/06/09/loki-premieres-to-poke-holes-in-the-god-of-mischiefs-glorious-purpose/?utm_source=exacttarget&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_term=tordotcom-tordotcomnewsletter&utm_content=na-readblog-blogpost&utm_campaign=tordotcom&e=ae61196ba6f66cd6ec207a72571f2857e83e34a5cad28b33bb296e929aa1ce60#comment-913534

 

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse

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I wonder what the purpose is for having to verify everything you ever said? I know if it was me, most of the time I would be saying "I don't remember saying that" as I looked through the papers.

I wonder what happens if you say "Nope I never said that".

Why do I get the funny feeling that I will never get an answer to these very important questions?

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5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The thing I can't wrap my head around is that Tony and Steve were somehow supposed to have to go to the 70's to get the tesseract but Loki wasn't supposed to steal the tesseract after the battle of NY. But how can you have one without the other?

Maybe that detour is an acceptably small deviation.  Sure, Steve got to look soulfully at Peggy and Tony was able to get some closure with his dad but nothing changed for the people who were already there.

As for the ending of Endgame, maybe the Timekeepers are Steve/Peggy shippers.  Or maybe they're split and too busy endlessly rehashing the argument to bother changing things, so that counts as the proper outcome to the rest of the people there.

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12 minutes ago, Rambler said:

I wonder what happens if you say "Nope I never said that".

You get one more page to sign with those words on it...

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2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Maybe that detour is an acceptably small deviation.  Sure, Steve got to look soulfully at Peggy and Tony was able to get some closure with his dad but nothing changed for the people who were already there.

As for the ending of Endgame, maybe the Timekeepers are Steve/Peggy shippers.  Or maybe they're split and too busy endlessly rehashing the argument to bother changing things, so that counts as the proper outcome to the rest of the people there.

The TVA ensures that the things that have to happen do happen.  Steve had to go to his alternate timeline and grow old happily with Peggy so he could return and pass the torch/shield to Sam.  Because if that does not happen then Steve stays in the MCU timeline and remains Captain America - which is not how it's supposed to happen.  

I don't know how the bombs or red-lining works, but I suppose that Steve goes to the "Peggyverse" lives there with her until she dies and then returns to give up the shield and presumably die in the MCU mainline.  At which point the TVA destroys the "Peggyverse" because it's served it's purpose.

One thing that's interesting to note is that "Evil Loki" went to medieval France and gave the French kid some gum either before or after killing the Minutemen.  And the French kid was alive and unharmed for Mobius to interrogate (before Mobius murdered him and the rest of his universe by resetting in).

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On 6/9/2021 at 7:31 PM, silverstream said:

I'm wondering whether the TVA will turn out to be the true big bad

I know nothing about them in the comics but, that's the vibe I'm getting from them. I don't know if it was the video or the "trial" hut, holy crap they gave off sinister organization vibes

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The three Timekeepers made me think of the three aspects of Fate in various mythologies.

Also - “It’s not your story, Mr. Laufeyson - it never was.” (the judge) Did anyone else take that as a subtle nod/wink to the fact that, up till now, Loki hasn’t had his own story, either series or movie, in the MCU?

Edited by Capricasix

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Every time I see or hear TVA, I think of the Tennessee Valley Authority. Couldn’t they have thought of an original acronym?

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9 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Especially since there was a war with multiple timelines and now there is just one. All that talk of chaos could easily be the talk of the winning timeline in the war.

I'm interested in the other Loki. Everyone is assuming that it's a variant from earlier in his life, but what if it's later in his life after he started his redemption arc. (As an example what if there was a Loki that managed to kill Thanos only for the TVA to show up and 'reset' the timeline).

 

8 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

It seems likely to me that the Time Keepers are acting to ensure the timeline that results in their own existence. I'm skeptical that there are any benevolent motivations for their mission statement beyond that.

I like these theories.

My speculation is that the TVA is like that group Sydney was working for on Alias. She thought she was working for the good guys. Only to find out they were not.

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39 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Every time I see or hear TVA, I think of the Tennessee Valley Authority. Couldn’t they have thought of an original acronym?

You know, Miss Minute had a southern accent. Maybe Tennessee Valley Authority customers better be extra polite when talking to representatives of the the TVA.

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2 hours ago, johntfs said:

The TVA ensures that the things that have to happen do happen.  Steve had to go to his alternate timeline and grow old happily with Peggy so he could return and pass the torch/shield to Sam.  Because if that does not happen then Steve stays in the MCU timeline and remains Captain America - which is not how it's supposed to happen.  

Plus didn't the Miss Minute video include a little graphic about how it was ok for someone to start their own timeline as long as it is not too different and eventually joins the person back up with the main timeline. That is exactly what Steve did.

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She actually said that just being too late for work can turn you into a variant....

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I know nothing about the comics background of the TVA but no way are they the good guys, or even the neutral guys.  Good guys don't just disintegrate people like that.

I am wondering whether Mobius is manipulating Loki straight up, or he is a true believer who is trying to get Loki on his side "for the greater good".

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Why would the French kid be dead?  I would think resetting means his life just rewinds to before he saw Loki in the church.  Killing him off would be another variant to the sacred timeline, wouldn’t it?

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saoirse

Posts in this topic should be about the episode. If your post is not primarily about the episode, please rethink where to post it. Posts that are primarily about the Marvel movies (or that reply to such posts) will be removed and warnings may be issued. Thank you.

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