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Marvel Movies & Comics: Loki+

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The spot to discuss already released MCU movies and comics, as well as the source material. Spoiler tags are NOT required here; you enter this topic at your own peril! Thanks

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I'm putting this speculation here as it's based on the comics. If I remember correctly, in the comics the Time Keepers were created at the end of a timeline and created the TVA to ensure that there creation occurred. Any change in history that affected their creation was dealt with.

Based on that and the mention of a previous multiverse war I'm thinking that the Time Keepers were the winners of that war, and all of this is to ensure that they're never challenged again. There's nothing altruistic in it.

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Are the TVA a new thing. I read Avengers Forever and the Time Keepers are in that but I don't remember the Time Variance Authority.

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A version of Enchantress also appeared on Agents Of SHIELD... Sif was sent to recapture her on Earth... but that is not MCU canon

ETA: Sif called her a dangerous criminal, but never discussed any connection [as a co-conspirator or variant] to Loki with Coulson

Edited by paigow

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WHAT IS THE TVA?
...
The Time Variance Authority (TVA) works tirelessly to prevent and/or minimize temporal interferences. Time cannot be tampered with in their endless offices out of the Null-Time Zone dimension, making it an ideal space-time locale to escape notice. They have also been known to hire bounty hunters to combat or arrest time-travelers, such as Immortus and the Fantastic Four of Earth-616, like when the latter explored a mysterious time bubble that was causing a chronal loop! See how Marvel’s First Family escaped the TVA’s custody.
*  *  *
BUT… WHAT ARE THEIR TIME LAWS?
...
I mean, you have to know them so you don’t violate them, right? Right...?

Stealing time, temporal misconduct, or time jumps that can destabilize the continuity are just a few of the myriad of crimes punishable by the TVA. From what we can gather, here are the laws: Don’t mess with the timestream, avoid traveling through time, don’t contact people in the past to save them from their future, and maybe don’t explore/implode time bubbles like the Fantastic Four did in FANTASTIC FOUR (1961) #341!

FYI, all questions answered in this Marvel.com article:

  • WHAT IS THE TVA?
  • WHO LEADS THE TVA?
  • WHAT MOTIVATES MR. MOBIUS "MOBY" M. MOBIUS?
  • WHO ELSE WORKS FOR THE AGENCY?
  • DO THEY HAVE AN ARMY?
  • HOW MUCH AUTHORITY DO THEY HAVE?
  • BUT… WHAT ARE THEIR TIME LAWS?
  • WHO ARE THE TIME-KEEPERS?
Edited by tv echo

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The Lady Loki origin story that I heard about was:

A new body was created for Sif to be reincarnated in, but Loki hijacked it before her soul could move in

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On 6/16/2021 at 3:23 PM, paigow said:

A version of Enchantress also appeared on Agents Of SHIELD... Sif was sent to recapture her on Earth... but that is not MCU canon

That was Lorelei, who in the comics is the younger sister of the Enchantress.

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On 6/17/2021 at 12:03 PM, paigow said:

The Lady Loki origin story that I heard about was:

A new body was created for Sif to be reincarnated in, but Loki hijacked it before her soul could move in

That was the one I'm familiar with as well.

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So this is episode called bullshit on Loki dying because he tried to stab Thanos instead of using his magic. Hell, I fully expected him to take Classic Loki’s path of faking his death. It’s not like he didn’t do it before!!

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Between Loki and WandaVision, I appreciate that Marvel is showing us how some of the classic costumes look in live action. They may not be practical, or turn the character into the sexiest person ever, but they are definitely fun to look at!

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From the latest episode thread.

Quote

Kang references do seem to be showing up a lot (kind of like Thanos did).

Re: a Loki Variant as the TVA head - literally anything is possible in the MCU (whether it makes sense or not!! LOL), but probably the biggest thing that leads me away from that possibility is that one of the main, defining characteristics of a Loki is that they are undisciplined.

They are survivors (which is a defensive stance, not an offensive, organized one), not leaders (even President Loki didn't fare well). And while Sylvie seems different, even she is more of a survivor than an activist. She's obviously been hiding a long time (like Classic Loki), but the TVA would have caught her and neutralized her when she made her attack if it wasn't for the existence of our Loki and Mobius changing the playing field. 

So whoever is behind the TVA, they are methodical and focused. Those really aren't Loki traits.  

Kang references could also suggest Immortus references. He is the future old man version of Kang. He lives at the end of time. In the comics he is an agent of the Time Keepers, but perhaps he is instead their master/creator. In Avengers Forever he and the Time Keepers were pruning the various alternate timelines that were a threat to them.

Edited by saoirse · Reason: Per request of poster, changed spoiler box to quote box
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5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

From the latest episode thread.

  Reveal spoiler

 

Kang references do seem to be showing up a lot (kind of like Thanos did).

Re: a Loki Variant as the TVA head - literally anything is possible in the MCU (whether it makes sense or not!! LOL), but probably the biggest thing that leads me away from that possibility is that one of the main, defining characteristics of a Loki is that they are undisciplined.

They are survivors (which is a defensive stance, not an offensive, organized one), not leaders (even President Loki didn't fare well). And while Sylvie seems different, even she is more of a survivor than an activist. She's obviously been hiding a long time (like Classic Loki), but the TVA would have caught her and neutralized her when she made her attack if it wasn't for the existence of our Loki and Mobius changing the playing field. 

So whoever is behind the TVA, they are methodical and focused. Those really aren't Loki traits.  

 

Kang references could also suggest Immortus references. He is the future old man version of Kang. He lives at the end of time. In the comics he is an agent of the Time Keepers, but perhaps he is instead their master/creator. In Avengers Forever he and the Time Keepers were pruning the various alternate timelines that were a threat to them.

Ah!! Thank you!! That is intriguing... I will have to do some googling!! 

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One interesting thing about Kang is that in the comics he has a tendency to succeed....then get bored and starting over. (At least he succeeds when he's not facing the Avengers). So I think it would be kind of interesting if they get to the home of the big bad, and it's empty. Kang has moved on, and the TVA is continuing out of inertia. (This would fall in line with when Mobius asked Loki what he would do if he ever won. The victory might be fun, but governing would be boring).

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6 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

So I think it would be kind of interesting if they get to the home of the big bad, and it's empty. Kang has moved on, and the TVA is continuing out of inertia.

Interesting idea. I could see that if Kang's goal had been to eliminate the Infinity Stones and decimate the Avengers, he would have succeeded in that with Endgame and then once he won, he got bored? And I could see one of the Lokis taking over an abandoned Castle, assuming the superficial glory without having to do any of the work. But then that would make the more important conflict happen at the TVA itself, between Ravonna and Mobius, so there'd have to be a way and a reason to get our Loki at least, back to the TVA, I'd think.... hmmm. 

Edited by Wynterwolf

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Was Captain America's Avengers: Endgame Ending a Nexus Event? Loki Director Responds (Exclusive)
By Liam Crowley Posted: July 26, 2021
https://thedirect.com/article/avengers-endgame-captain-america-loki-nexus-event-exclusive 

Quote

Speaking in an exclusive interview with The Direct, Loki director Kate Herron offered her impassioned perspective on Steve Rogers' potential breach of the Sacred Timeline.

"So! I’ve been thinking about this (laughs). I’m just like [so excited]... People are going to be annoyed because it’s not a definitive answer, but also I can only really answer as a fan, right? My theory is this: It comes down to if you’re an optimist or a pessimist. If you’re an optimist, maybe it was okay [for] them living that way, and the branch wasn’t so severe that it didn’t need to be pruned, and that meant that they could stay together. Maybe the romantics can say somehow that managed to exist. And then the pessimists [think], ‘They probably got pruned (laughs).'"

Herron elaborated on her theory, noting there's a real chance that Cap and Peggy's marriage was able to stay below the TVA's breach threshold.

"It depends on how people fall on that side of things, because in my head I guess it would be... generally branches have to be pruned and then maintained, right? But it depends. Like if it’s alternate, it would imply that it’s running alongside our main timeline, so yeah. I don’t want to definitively say that they were pruned, but by our logic in the TVA, probably. But maybe where there’s a will there’s a way, and they weren’t too disruptive and managed to live happily ever after."

 

Edited by tv echo

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I appreciate that Herron's been put on the spot there...but that branch can't have been pruned, or we wouldn't have had old Steve visiting Sam in the present day time frame. 

 

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On 7/29/2021 at 4:50 AM, Dame sans merci said:

I appreciate that Herron's been put on the spot there...but that branch can't have been pruned, or we wouldn't have had old Steve visiting Sam in the present day time frame. 

 

It probably wasn't pruned.  Quite a few "alternate timelines" probably weren't pruned.  In episode 6 we learn the real underlying criteria for pruning (which not even the TVA itself knows) - and it has little to do with "varying from the Sacred Timeline."  The thing that gets a timeline pruned is if it leads to another version of "He Who Remains."  That's it.

Alligator Loki got pruned because he ate the wrong neighbor's cat and somehow that opened the way for a version of He-Who-Remains. 

If the Peggy/Steve happy ending had caused another HWR, it'd have been pruned.  It didn't so it wasn't.

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