S05.E15: Is This Really How It's Going to End?!

[paulvdb]

Quote

Lucifer learns that not all of his siblings want him to land the big promotion. Also, Dan offers to set Ella up with an old friend.

 

[NeenerNeener]

Whoa, didn't see that coming.

Ella and Lucifer singing at the funeral...stupid allergies making my eye water...

Edited May 28, 2021 by NeenerNeener

[StarBrand]

Wow....I can't believe they did that...

[Gigi43]

Honestly, I've been expecting Dan to go every season (especially season one) and I'm not sure where his character could go from here, plus Lesley-Ann tweeted a while ago about Scarlet doing emotional scenes, so I kinda figured it could happen. But dammit, it was still emotional. Now there's always a chance I guess they get him out of hell for the last stretch but for now, it was quite a run for Detective Douche. I loved Lucifer's declaration of war and Lucifer and Maze getting the bad guys was satisfying, even though I would have liked to see Amenadiel kick some ass. Everyone brought their A-Game for this. 

 

Poor Trixie! 

[Peace 47]

12 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Poor Trixie! 

This!  The one single spoiler that I had read for this block of episodes was a poster on another site writing that they had it on good authority that Dan was going to die.  I was hoping that the person was wrong and that they wouldn’t make poor Trixie, the character that everyone adores, go through that.

And forcing Chloe to be re-traumatized by her own father’s death by becoming the single mother to her fatherless daughter is a big no bueno from me.

I am hoping against hope that Amenadiel saying that Dan is not in Heaven is a misdirect for the audience to be thinking that Dan is in Hell, but in actuality, for him to be someplace else interesting that is addressed in a future episode.  I mean, God did acknowledge him directly and say everything is as it should be.  That’s got to merit some special consideration!  And he was so at peace finally!  But more likely, I guess he’s probably in Hell for now.  Poor Dan.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Peace 47

[Helena Dax]

Well, I wasn't expecting that! I'm sorry for Dan and his loved ones, although I have to say that I was rolling my eyes a bit when Amenadiel started to say that Dan was the best man in the world or something like that. He was mostly okay, don't get me wrong, and he doesn't deserve to be in Hell, but I'd say that Chloe and Linda are better people, for example.

[Valerie]

That was rough. I definitely didn't see that coming. Everyone's reactions were gut-wrenching, and Trixie just broke my heart into a billion tiny pieces. Lucifer saying "My dear, sweet child" with complete sincerity... yeah, I've got something in my eye. Ella and Lucifer singing It's So Hard To Say Goodbye in both Spanish and English was probably one of the best musical performances this season, maybe even of the series. Their voices go very well together.

[Anela]

What?! They actually killed him?

[Anela]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:14 PM, Valerie said:

That was rough. I definitely didn't see that coming. Everyone's reactions were gut-wrenching, and Trixie just broke my heart into a billion tiny pieces. Lucifer saying "My dear, sweet child" with complete sincerity... yeah, I've got something in my eye. Ella and Lucifer singing It's So Hard To Say Goodbye in both Spanish and English was probably one of the best musical performances this season, maybe even of the series. Their voices go very well together.

The one time he doesn’t call her an urchin. 😔

Scott Porter is his friend?! I like him.  
 

I hope the title indicates that it isn’t actually the way that it ends. 

[DoctorAtomic]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:55 AM, Peace 47 said:

I am hoping against hope that Amenadiel saying that Dan is not in Heaven is a misdirect for the audience to be thinking that Dan is in Hell, but in actuality, for him to be someplace else interesting that is addressed in a future episode.

That was my first thought because that's just a real poor way to end this character's journey. I'm saying he becomes an angel and casts the deciding vote for Chloe becoming god. 

On 5/29/2021 at 11:06 AM, Helena Dax said:

Well, I wasn't expecting that! I'm sorry for Dan and his loved ones, although I have to say that I was rolling my eyes a bit when Amenadiel started to say that Dan was the best man in the world or something like that. He was mostly okay, don't get me wrong, and he doesn't deserve to be in Hell, but I'd say that Chloe and Linda are better people, for example.

To be fair to Dan, he had the more impactful transition though. Linda and Chloe were basically always good. He actually had to pull himself out of where he was. I'll be really disappointed if he is really in hell. It kind of smacks you in the face to even bother trying to change. 

I actually liked the arrangement and the actors sang really well, bot I can't stand the song. Maybe because I was around when it came out and it was just beaten to the ground. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[tennisgurl]

Well...fuck. I really should have guessed this was coming, but I really really didnt. This really hit me, Dan's death was such a massive series of gut punches. He gets kidnapped, everyone is running around trying to save him, he gets the shit beaten out of him by the bad guys and almost killed right there, he manages to escape and it looks like he's going to get away, and then he gets shot, Chloe finds him already dying, she manages to get him to the medics as he begs Chloe to tell Trixie that he loves her, then when everyone gathers at the ER, he dies and they have to tell Trixie that her father is dead, and THEN just to rub salt into the wound, Amenadiel finds out that Dan's in Hell, which leads to Lucifer to lose it over for unfair all of this is. It was freaking gut wrenching, especially his last minutes telling Chloe he's scared and saying goodbye, and then everyone's reactions, with Trixie especially grabbing my heart and stomping it several times when she told Maze not toctry because her dad was fine and then Lucifer being unable to lie to her about her dad being gone. 

The Spanish and English version of Its So Hard To Say Goodbye that Ella and Lucifer sang was lovely. What a tragic ending for a character who has come so far and has tried so hard to be good. Its like the title of the episode is asking if this could really be the end of Dan's whole story, its just so depressing that there has to be more. I have really grown to love Dan, even when the show hasn't always been sure what to do with him, I just refuse to believe that his ending is dying brutally as collateral of Michael's evil scheme and then suffering in Hell for millennia because he still feels so terrible for his sins which he has tried so hard to make up for. I will probably have more to say about this episode later, it actually was a really well put together hour of television, but I am just really sad. I need a little break before the last episode. 

[thuganomics85]

Dan, no!  I really didn't see it coming, but in hindsight, I should have.  Throughout the episode, we see him have nice moments with a good portion of the cast, and looking back there was a sense of finality over it.  And then him getting captured felt like another case of "Dan is in peril again!", but I should have known that his luck was destined to run out one day.  Not only that, it sounds like he might be in Hell according to Amenadiel, although I can see that being a misdirected.  With this show, I'll wait and see if this is the last time we'll see Dan going forward, but I do suspect his time on Earth has officially ended.  Either way, Kevin Alejandro was nothing but perfect in the role, and I will miss him going forward.

Everyone's reactions to Dan's death were spot: especially seeing the likes of Maze and even Lucifer shaken and breaking down over it.  And, of course, poor Trixie.  And Chloe, knowing what Trixie will now go through for the rest of her life.  At least he got a nice funeral, with a great eulogy for Amenadiel (sure, I can quibble over him calling Dan the best man in the world, but I honestly think I can see Amenadiel truly feeling that way), and the song from Ella and Lucifer.

Glad Lucifer and Maze at least got some revenge for him as well.  On a slightly lighter note, I did get a kick out of Dan's killer being played by Rob Benedict since he 

Spoiler

played God on Supernatural, so Dan's fear about being taken out by God wasn't too far off the mark!

Hey, that was Jason Street himself, Scott Porter, as Dan's former partner/potential love interest for Ella!  Feels like they are setting him up to be a big factor going forward.

Amenadiel joining the force could be interesting.

Lucifer has figured out that Michael is trying to rebuild the flaming sword, so the campaign seems to have been squashed and a full-blown civil war might happen.  And since Dan's death was partially because of Michael's scheme, I imagine this is going to get very personal!

Time to wrap this up!

[Gigi43]

12 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That was my first thought because that's just a real poor way to end this character's journey. I'm saying he becomes an angel and casts the deciding vote for Chloe becoming god. 

To be fair to Dan, he had the more impactful transition though. Linda and Chloe were basically always good. He actually had to pull himself out of where he was. I'll be really disappointed if he is really in hell. It kind of smacks you in the face to even bother trying to change. 

 

Trixie should be God. And Linda a saint. I'm serious about the Linda thing, I've said it since season one. I'm not thrilled Linda still goes on about Lucifer's seflishness after he went back to hell to protect Charlie, but if shrink to the Devil isn't worthy of sainthood, who is? 

 

Dan ending up in Hell would back up Lucifer's rant at the end of Priest Walks Into a Bar about "If nobody can win, WHAT"S THE POINT?" Dan worked on himself and his guilt is based off of genuine regret and wanting to be better, which apparently doesn't count in the end. 

[DoctorAtomic]

There's got to be more than this because that's wrong. Why didn't Am go to hell to verify? It's a misdirect here. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I forgot to add that Linda would have to be dead to be a saint if they're going by current rules. Otherwise, she's certainly worthy.

I do hope the god question is settled this season and not a series ending event. One thing I liked about Babylon 5 (of many) was that there was a whole season after 'the big war' where everyone had to rebuild and figure out what to do next. That's where the real drama is. 

I'm wondering if they're going to do something next season here like The Good Place where they actually tried to rebuild the afterlife to be more egalitarian (v draconian) in rules, etc. Not that people should be going to hell, but revisiting something like - 

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

"If nobody can win, WHAT"S THE POINT?" Dan worked on himself and his guilt is based off of genuine regret and wanting to be better, which apparently doesn't count in the end. 

It's not like Dan had a last minute turnaround. I would think that's how you/we would want it to work - learning and doing better. Obviously, if you're a serial killer or something and repent that's a different story, but that's not really where Dan was. Though I hope he has a more prominent role in this rebuild. The current angels are out of touch, at best. 

I would find that more interesting than a rehash of angels fighting each other. 

[roamyn]

I enjoyed seeing Vincent groveling on the ground at the end, 

Spoiler

Since that’s how his character ended up on ‘Supernatural’.

ETA:  I needed to take a few hours to take a breath and clear my eyes.  When Trixie walked off that elevator and asked where her dad was, I just burst into tears.

When DB talked abt this season being tragic, I had a suspicion that Dan was going to be dying.  I figured we’d see a Dan/Charlotte reunion in Heaven.  But to find out he’s out there, is killer.

what a long way this character has come.  From hiding his involvement in the Palmetto case, to providing optimism and hope.  

I’d say RIP, Dan, but I don’t think that’s in the cards for you yet.

Edited June 3, 2021 by roamyn

[madmax]

I've been avoiding spoilers as much as possible, but I did see a brief headline with something about Kevin Alejandro talks about Dan's twist.  I assumed he would be going bad again, never expected this!

I was well and truly stunned that they went there.  The acting was phenomenal, most especially Maze and Trixie.  That hospital scene was so well done, but the funeral scene, when they were folding the flag, brought tears to my eyes.

There were some pretty funny moments, tho:

The psychic and the dig at Fox

Maze letting her soul "slowly suffocate and die. Like I did with Chad.”

[ProudMary]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:30 PM, madmax said:

I've been avoiding spoilers as much as possible, but I did see a brief headline with something about Kevin Alejandro talks about Dan's twist.  I assumed he would be going bad again, never expected this!

Like you, I was similarly spoiled by a headline about Dan's "twist" ending and if the character had a future in Season 6, which did make me think that Dan might die. Of course, with this show, screentime doesn't necessarily end with a character's death. Here, it seems that there will be some type of battle for Dan's afterlife.

[jewel21]

Damn, I wasn’t expecting this and cried so much during the death scene, hospital scene and funeral. Dan was never my favourite but I sure am going to miss him. 

[theatremouse]

I found Dan's death really hollow. When he blew up a few episodes ago for a half a second I thought "whoa wow did they really off him that way?" and then of course they didn't. I've been wanting them to off the character for a while, and that method would've actually surprised me. But then they undid it immediately. And made it a running joke. Then the "prank", in which, again, he was never in any real danger, and everything got undone (except that many head traumas so close together did not bode well for his future anyway). They put all this effort into establishing "Dan is in no real peril", to then kill him off. It was realllllllllllly cheap. I think maybe the people writing it thought that would make it more effective, like they gave a false sense of security, but no remember he's a cop so he's in theoretical danger every time he goes to work? Or something? But for me, it made it less. I'm like, look show, you keep undoing it. I don't believe you any more, and by now I don't care.

Also that he was not dead before Chloe got there was clunky AF. He was shot like five times. The last breathe convo in her lap was SO trite. I know they needed it to finish the episode, but whoo boy was that not fun to watch. Clunky clunky.

[roamyn]

19 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I found Dan's death really hollow. When he blew up a few episodes ago for a half a second I thought "whoa wow did they really off him that way?" and then of course they didn't. I've been wanting them to off the character for a while, and that method would've actually surprised me. But then they undid it immediately. And made it a running joke. Then the "prank", in which, again, he was never in any real danger, and everything got undone (except that many head traumas so close together did not bode well for his future anyway). They put all this effort into establishing "Dan is in no real peril", to then kill him off. It was realllllllllllly cheap. I think maybe the people writing it thought that would make it more effective, like they gave a false sense of security, but no remember he's a cop so he's in theoretical danger every time he goes to work? Or something? But for me, it made it less. I'm like, look show, you keep undoing it. I don't believe you any more, and by now I don't care.

Also that he was not dead before Chloe got there was clunky AF. He was shot like five times. The last breathe convo in her lap was SO trite. I know they needed it to finish the episode, but whoo boy was that not fun to watch. Clunky clunky.

He was shot three times, in the torso, not chest.  And we don’t know how long it took between Chuck, er Vincent, shooting him & Chloe’s arrival.  And Dan’s a strong guy.  It’s entirely possible he was just holding thru sheer willpower.

[juliet73]

I was surprised that Dan died.  I actually was expecting Maze to give him her soul since she didn't want it anymore.  What did Lucifer say to Dan's killer at the end?  I know he was on his knees afterward, but I don't remember seeing him being killed by Lucifer or Maze.  I'll miss Dan - I was actually wanting him and Ella to get together. 

[sinkwriter]

I always figured Dan would be the prime target for going to hell, given what he did in season 1, but I guess I never figured they'd actually kill him off. Even watching this episode, I thought for sure they were going to make it to save him in time. I thought it might come down to the wire, but they were going to come busting in and save him, most likely with Lucifer giving him some sassy snarky comment as they saved him. So when they didn't... I really was surprised.

Dan's not my favorite character, but it was such a horrible end for someone who tried his best to be better after season 1. I didn't cry until Chloe got there, though, and then Maze and Trixie finding out as well, and Lucifer unable to lie to Trixie... those really broke me.

[roamyn]

On 7/27/2021 at 3:14 PM, sinkwriter said:

I always figured Dan would be the prime target for going to hell, given what he did in season 1, but I guess I never figured they'd actually kill him off. 

 But what did he really do in S1, other than lie to Chloe?  Granted he made the wrong decision to not trust her and made her think she was seeing things.

IMO Malcolm deserved to be shot.  He was going to kill Chloe.  And stealing the gun from evidence wouldn’t have saved those reckless young Satanists.  Malcolm was going to kill the, no matter what.  Malcolm also killed his partner, Padalucci I think his name was.

What Amenadiel did by resurrecting Malcolm was far worse - and I love Amenadiel.

[DoctorAtomic]

It's been awhile, but I got the impression that cutting corners by stealing things from evidence was routine for Dan at the time even though they didn't show a whole picture of it. 

[mmecorday]

The scene in the waiting room with Trixie finding out her father had died reminded me so much of that scene in "The Champ" when Ricky Schroeder's father dies. Some of the dialogue was very similar, too.

Oh, if you ever do watch that movie, make sure you have tissues. Lots and lots of tissues.

[Quickbeam]

I still don’t like Trixie, there I said it. 
 

The Ella/Lucifer duet was really lovely. And holding hands. Very moving.