S04.E18: Veritas Vincint

[thewhiteowl]

The bombing of a Los Angeles police station puts the city on edge, leading the team to a final showdown with a group of domestic extremists. Also, Hondo faces the fallout from a bold decision that threatens his future, and Tan takes a big step in his personal life.

[DanaK]

Enjoyable finale, with good plot and character moments. Poor Hondo, not fired but removed as SWAT leader. I think I missed the specific dialogue but it sounded like the union bailed on supporting him

[Danielg342]

Well...there's a lot to unpack here. Not sure I can do it all in one post.

...and maybe that's the only issue with this episode. There was enough to make this a two-parter, and maybe it should have been.

...but, talk about the tapestry of all the complex storylines and competing themes and interests that all came together, showing that real work can be done if we all work together.

Lots of lessons for greater society could be learned from that.

I'll say this much in closing.

It's great that Hondo and Leroy look like they're repairing their friendship.

Not sure what to make of Hondo's forced demotion, but Shemar Moore's face after hearing it was just absolutely priceless. Way to sell Hondo's disappointment.

Thought we'd get a wedding between Tan and Bonnie but I guess it got cut for time. Hopefully next season we can have a proper reception

Don't know what to think about Christina and Street kissing, except that I'm glad we're finally back to having those scenes in Hollywood.

Oh, and lastly...

"Are you sure you know how to ride this thing?" LOL...yes, Kevin, Street sure does.

[DanaK]

I actually don’t mind Chris and Street together, it was the indecisiveness by both that bugged me

If I were Hondo, I would seriously be considering if I wanted to work for an organization that chose to turn the screws on him rather than firing him outright, even after helping to avoid bloodshed and a race war

[nittany cougar]

6 hours ago, DanaK said:

I actually don’t mind Chris and Street together, it was the indecisiveness by both that bugged me

I was surprised that Chris kissed Jim.   The actors have a ton of chemistry together whether they are doing friendship scenes or romantic scenes.  I think a work relationship is a bad idea but I will watch any scene with those two together.  I trust the writers to be true to the characters and not screw it up.

Edited May 27, 2021 by nittany cougar

[mommalib]

First off I'm prod of Hondo for exposing those racist cops, if only there were more Hondo like law enforcers in real life. But I'm not surprised the union abandoned him and that he's being tortured instead of outright fired. Damn shame in a round about way he's getting demoted for the same reason he was promoted in the first place. This whole thing rubs me the wrong way one of the reasons I watch this show is because I like seeing a Black man at the wheel ad Hondo is a great leader. I just hopes this doesn't last long.  I wonder who will lead the team now? 

Nice to see Hondo and Leroy patch things up. Leroy really stepped up.

I'm indifferent about Chris and Street but I guess it's about time.

[milkyaqua]

I didn't see that twist with Hondo coming but it is a way to make him squirm.  I don't expect it to last long but it will be interesting to see it play out.

I'm glad to see him and Leroy trying to if not repair their relationship to at least have an understanding and not just be adversarial with each other.

I'm not a shipper when it comes to most shows so Street and Chris doesn't interest me especially since I think they both need some more baking time.  I have no choice but to go along with it as it seems to be what the show and/or audience wants but they better watch how they do it since they are co-workers and there are enough shows that try and push that co-worker relationship soap opera drama down the audiences throats at the expense of the central conceit of the show.  I'm probably expecting too much. 

[Danielg342]

7 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

I'm not a shipper when it comes to most shows so Street and Chris doesn't interest me especially since I think they both need some more baking time.  I have no choice but to go along with it as it seems to be what the show and/or audience wants but they better watch how they do it since they are co-workers and there are enough shows that try and push that co-worker relationship soap opera drama down the audiences throats at the expense of the central conceit of the show.  I'm probably expecting too much. 

I don't like "Streelonso" based on principle. I'm not against the idea of having work relationships on TV or even in general (I worked with a husband and wife team who handled the shipping department and they did it well)- the issue I have is how these storylines are done in principle.

First, Hollywood has an obsession with these storylines, injecting them into almost every show even if they don't make sense within the show's concept. Hollywood can't simply have a police procedural or a courtroom drama or a show about SWAT without insisting that two of the cast members hook up. It's vastly and grossly overdone.

Secondly, they're hardly ever done well. Every time there's a relationship on a Hollywood show it has to be an overwrought dramafest whose script not even the worst soap operas would accept. They're always contrived, always silly and they always consume the characters involved in the storylines. Hollywood can't just simply write two characters who just happen to be in love with each other- no, there has to be drama!

Thirdly- and this ties into the specific issue I have with the show doing it- is the fact that of all the cast members who get sucked into these storylines, it's the women who get pinned with the worst of it. Hollywood has so few roles for women in the first place, and they minimize those roles by making them "the girlfriend" or "the wife" or "the love interest" of someone else in the cast. They don't exist independent of the male characters or pursue any real, tangible storylines independent of them.

No, they must always be tied to a male cast member in some way. This is beyond tiring, especially in the 21st century.

Christina Alonso is the worst defined of any of the characters. She's never had a storyline that's lasted more than a single arc other than her "will they or won't they" with Street. Christina is simply there to prop up Street, when she could be so much more.

Yeah, that kiss was pretty nice and Christina and Street have chemistry together. I won't deny that.

However, why must they hook up? Why can't they simply be friends? Why is the idea of a man and a woman simply being friends so foreign to Hollywood?

Friendships can have drama. We've already seen quite a bit of that between Street and Christina before, and not just this season. For once, I'd love it if the show- any show- explored that dynamic instead of insisting the characters get into bed together.

Worse, S.W.A.T. has already tried and failed with a love story with whatever it was between Hondo and Cortez. That was tired and predictable, and I have a feeling "Streelonso" will be as well. This episode already played up the "forbidden love" angle, which means we're eventually going to get to the point where the team finds out about the relationship and a "decision" will have to be made.

Been there, done that. Why try it again if it didn't work before?

At the very least, if "Streelonso" is endgame, then leave the actual hook-up to the series finale. If it'll put a dent into their careers to the point where one (or both) of them have to leave SWAT then leave the actual consummation to the point where a character leaving the team won't matter to future episodes. Don't force the show's hand by having to figure out a way to include a character in the show's narrative that wouldn't be there under normal circumstances.

(Which, I will point out, the show has also already done before when Street himself was temporarily booted from SWAT in the first half of S2)

Maybe there's a chance that "Streelonso" works out and the writers won't make their love the focal point of their characters' narratives. That would be ideal. However, I have little trust that's what's actually going to happen, so I dread the prospect.

8 hours ago, mommalib said:

Damn shame in a round about way he's getting demoted for the same reason he was promoted in the first place. This whole thing rubs me the wrong way one of the reasons I watch this show is because I like seeing a Black man at the wheel ad Hondo is a great leader. I just hopes this doesn't last long.  I wonder who will lead the team now? 

I don't suspect it'll last any more than one or two episodes, or at most for an arc. I'm sure it was done to let Deacon have a chance to show what he could do leading the team, and Shemar Moore's character on Criminal Minds, Derek Morgan, was also involved in a similar situation on CM, but with the roles reversed- Morgan was temporarily team leader while the usual team leader (Aaron "Hotch" Hotchner) was demoted from the position.

That situation also happened in CM's fifth season, though not at the same episode count (since CM completed 91 episodes after four seasons, whereas S.W.A.T. has only finished 84). Hotch also wasn't demoted because of his conduct (it was all part of a plan to catch a serial killer who had gotten away). For reference, that situation lasted from essentially the third to tenth episodes of S5, going past CM's 100th episode (although the arc effectively climaxed in the 100th episode).

Now, S.W.A.T. is scheduled to get to its 100th episode next season, but it won't be until episode 16. I doubt they'll have Hondo demoted for that long. What I suspect will happen is that the fifth season premiere will deal with Hondo brooding over the situation and he'll likely not yet have returned from his leave of absence. Hondo will wrestle with whether or not he wants to go back, and he'll eventually come back after someone- likely someone on the team, but it could be someone like Nichelle or Darryl or even Leroy that reminds him of the work he's accomplished and the work he still needs to do and thus shouldn't let a "bump in the road" derail him.

Hicks, too, will also fight for him, and he'll spend an episode or two undoing Hondo's demotion. Likely by the end of the fall season (at the very latest), Hondo will be back as team leader.

Is that the ideal storyline? I don't know. Certainly on a "darker" show, there would be more avenues to explore. However, for a show like this, I think it's optimal. This show- like many other procedurals- don't work when there's major changes to the dynamic, so Hondo being benched for a few episodes is what's best for the show.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Great season finale, love it. Hondo being demoted, never see that coming, it’s interesting to see how he’s gonna handle that emotionally. I wish we can get a glimpse of Tan/Bonnie’s wedding. Want more Luca in next season. Will miss Deacon! 😣

Still saying NO to this forehead-touching couple. It’s not professional. And Chris is way too emotional, too indecisive and too emotionally screwed up for this workplace relationship. Street needs someone like Bonnie who can make things easier for him, someone who is less moody, one drama queen in his life is more than enough.

 

[Danielg342]

21 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Will miss Deacon! 😣

Unless I missed something, I don't think Deacon is going anywhere. He's just going to look after training for new police recruits, which I imagine will just happen over the summer months when episodes are not happening.

[Snazzy Daisy]

16 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Unless I missed something, I don't think Deacon is going anywhere. He's just going to look after training for new police recruits, which I imagine will just happen over the summer months when episodes are not happening.

Errr this is embarrassing, I will miss Deacon during the season break. He is my tv’s guilty pleasure! ☺️ 

Do you think in S5, Deacon will be replacing Hondo as the next Team Leader? I googled re LAPD’s new recruits training, the training duration is 6 months. Is Deacon up to the challenge, splitting his time as a new leader and a trainer?

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Errr this is embarrassing, I will miss Deacon during the season break. He is my tv’s guilty pleasure! ☺️ 

Do you think in S5, Deacon will be replacing Hondo as the next Team Leader? I googled re LAPD’s new recruits training, the training duration is 6 months. Is Deacon up to the challenge, splitting his time as a new leader and a trainer?

I'm sure that will be the plan. "Hollywood time" will mean that Deacon's time with the recruits will be done by the time the season starts (since Hollywood only follows timelines when it's convenient for the story). If not, I'm sure it'll be used as extra ammunition by Hicks to argue he needs Hondo back as team leader of SWAT.

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Errr this is embarrassing, I will miss Deacon during the season break. He is my tv’s guilty pleasure! ☺️ 

Do you think in S5, Deacon will be replacing Hondo as the next Team Leader? I googled re LAPD’s new recruits training, the training duration is 6 months. Is Deacon up to the challenge, splitting his time as a new leader and a trainer?

I don’t think Deacon was going to be a full time trainer....more likely a guest lecturer and mentor. 

[Daff]

On 5/28/2021 at 2:22 AM, Danielg342 said:

No, they must always be tied to a male cast member in some way. This is beyond tiring, especially in the 21st century.

It was tiring in the 20th, as well. 

[Danielg342]

On 5/29/2021 at 3:11 PM, Daff said:

It was tiring in the 20th, as well. 

I think what makes it worse on a show like this is how they've been progressive in other areas, specifically by having a person of colour as the series star and not having his identity be the focus of his character (yeah, this show has tackled racism, and they've tackled the topic very well with lots of balance and nuance, but Hondo does way more on this show than simply deal with racism, and S.W.A.T. didn't even commit to a deep dive into racism plots until this season).

Which isn't to say I would like it on another show. It's just that on a show like this, which has made so many strides in other areas, it's even more jarring that it falls into Hollywood's usual characterization of women.

[Daff]

6 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I think what makes it worse on a show like this is how they've been progressive in other areas, specifically by having a person of colour as the series star and not having his identity be the focus of his character (yeah, this show has tackled racism, and they've tackled the topic very well with lots of balance and nuance, but Hondo does way more on this show than simply deal with racism, and S.W.A.T. didn't even commit to a deep dive into racism plots until this season).

Which isn't to say I would like it on another show. It's just that on a show like this, which has made so many strides in other areas, it's even more jarring that it falls into Hollywood's usual characterization of women.

See, this is why I so appreciate Shemar Moore! You just knew when he left CM that he’d seek out a niche where he could make bold statements and foster social development. I think he’s doing it. Regarding Hollywood’s “female” blindness I believe they’re stuck in binary mode and in their view, there are only two alternatives for women: flaming feminist or soccer mom!  
What happened to “bringing home the bacon and frying it up in a pan”? In many ways, we were a lot better off independence-wise in the 80s and 90s (salaries and BC, oh, and the other BC, notwithstanding). 
Why aren’t women shown as being self sufficient, fully actualized human beings? 
If Shemar Moore had been the little league coach in the 60s, he would have let me play! It would never occur to him to exclude girls. 

[WinJet0819]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:32 AM, nittany cougar said:

I was surprised that Chris kissed Jim.   The actors have a ton of chemistry together whether they are doing friendship scenes or romantic scenes.  I think a work relationship is a bad idea but I will watch any scene with those two together.  I trust the writers to be true to the characters and not screw it up.

They will screw it up. It's inevitable. Chris will devolve from a self-assured, confident kick-butt woman in the male-dominated SWAT unit to constantly needing Jim for reassurance. Not to mention, PDAs at work and other cringe-worthy stuff that will detract from main focus of the show. Look at what's become of Stella Kidd on Chicago Fire or Hailey Upton on Chicago PD. Stella was on the verge of not taking her lieutenant's exam because her firefighter boyfriend was giving her the silent treatment. Upton spurned an FBI job offer just so she could stay with her partner who she loved. The females always seem to come out weak in these situations.

On 5/28/2021 at 1:22 AM, Danielg342 said:

I don't like "Streelonso" based on principle. I'm not against the idea of having work relationships on TV or even in general (I worked with a husband and wife team who handled the shipping department and they did it well)- the issue I have is how these storylines are done in principle.

First, Hollywood has an obsession with these storylines, injecting them into almost every show even if they don't make sense within the show's concept. Hollywood can't simply have a police procedural or a courtroom drama or a show about SWAT without insisting that two of the cast members hook up. It's vastly and grossly overdone.

Secondly, they're hardly ever done well. Every time there's a relationship on a Hollywood show it has to be an overwrought dramafest whose script not even the worst soap operas would accept. They're always contrived, always silly and they always consume the characters involved in the storylines. Hollywood can't just simply write two characters who just happen to be in love with each other- no, there has to be drama!

Thirdly- and this ties into the specific issue I have with the show doing it- is the fact that of all the cast members who get sucked into these storylines, it's the women who get pinned with the worst of it. Hollywood has so few roles for women in the first place, and they minimize those roles by making them "the girlfriend" or "the wife" or "the love interest" of someone else in the cast. They don't exist independent of the male characters or pursue any real, tangible storylines independent of them.

No, they must always be tied to a male cast member in some way. This is beyond tiring, especially in the 21st century.

Christina Alonso is the worst defined of any of the characters. She's never had a storyline that's lasted more than a single arc other than her "will they or won't they" with Street. Christina is simply there to prop up Street, when she could be so much more.

Yeah, that kiss was pretty nice and Christina and Street have chemistry together. I won't deny that.

However, why must they hook up? Why can't they simply be friends? Why is the idea of a man and a woman simply being friends so foreign to Hollywood?

Friendships can have drama. We've already seen quite a bit of that between Street and Christina before, and not just this season. For once, I'd love it if the show- any show- explored that dynamic instead of insisting the characters get into bed together.

Worse, S.W.A.T. has already tried and failed with a love story with whatever it was between Hondo and Cortez. That was tired and predictable, and I have a feeling "Streelonso" will be as well. This episode already played up the "forbidden love" angle, which means we're eventually going to get to the point where the team finds out about the relationship and a "decision" will have to be made.

Been there, done that. Why try it again if it didn't work before?

At the very least, if "Streelonso" is endgame, then leave the actual hook-up to the series finale. If it'll put a dent into their careers to the point where one (or both) of them have to leave SWAT then leave the actual consummation to the point where a character leaving the team won't matter to future episodes. Don't force the show's hand by having to figure out a way to include a character in the show's narrative that wouldn't be there under normal circumstances.

(Which, I will point out, the show has also already done before when Street himself was temporarily booted from SWAT in the first half of S2)

Maybe there's a chance that "Streelonso" works out and the writers won't make their love the focal point of their characters' narratives. That would be ideal. However, I have little trust that's what's actually going to happen, so I dread the prospect.

This comment needs to be engraved in all TV studios.

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

This comment needs to be engraved in all TV studios

Thanks. :) I'll do the engraving myself if I have to.