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SilverStormm

Small Talk: And The Winner Is....

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3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And so a friendly debate on another thread dies with a whimper as neither Breaking Bad nor The West Wing made it to the GOAT finals either.

Also, given the nominees and votes for other categories, I would have guessed that the average member of these forums is too young to vote in WKRP in Cincinnati or Frazier.  The Good Place was a great show, but the "greatest of all time"?  No... 

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Frasier has a cult following, which as near as I can tell formed after the show left the air.

Shows with cult followings tend to do better when there is a big field of candidates.

Previous GOAT winners were Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Golden Girls, both of which are cult shows.

Also, I suspect shows with female audiences (Buffy, Golden Girls) have an edge.  Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad have mostly male fanbases.  Frasier fans tend to be women, too.
 

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I didn't look at previous winners.  Those are... odd choices.  So I guess the category and nominees are meaningless, because - cult following or not - none of these shows are even close to the greatest of all time.  I've never seen Breaking Bad but I can concede that it's still a much better show and deserves to be a nominee based on what I do know, including its popularity across non-cult followers and its accolades.  

Bubble gum pop boy bands have cult followings too - it doesn't mean that they are Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame candidates.  

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I don't watch most of the shows that are up for any kind of awards this year. And I thought I was watching a lot of TV! Hardly anything I do watch gets any kind of mention. It's kind of funny. 

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5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Hardly anything I do watch gets any kind of mention.

That's me every year with these awards; most shows I watch never make it past the first round of voting, so in the final round I usually only get to cast a vote or two.  Oh, well - I like the non-traditional categories (especially best performance by an inanimate object, even though I haven't had a nominee for that since Provenza's hat on Major Crimes), so I enjoy it.

Edited to say, well, I'll be damned - I actually had things to vote for in ten categories this year (including GOAT, where I voted for The X-Files)!  Plus I threw a few hate votes at shows I've never seen but object to on principle (e.g. Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz) in some of the "worst" categories.

Edited by Bastet
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I have a question - is there any way to view preliminary results? In case I can't decide between two options and don't want to throw the vote away if one of them is not going to win anyway (obviously this would be on the last day of voting, not first).

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8 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I have a question - is there any way to view preliminary results? In case I can't decide between two options and don't want to throw the vote away if one of them is not going to win anyway (obviously this would be on the last day of voting, not first).

No, you can’t see results. 

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I think everyone has a personal definition of what constitutes the GOAT.  Most of us have more than one greatest show of all time and which one we prefer will depend on our moods.  How do you compare comedies and dramas and reality shows?  It's hard. We've had a pretty tumultuous past year and a half.  Do I think it's a coincidence that four of the top 5 GOAT options that made the cut are three sitcoms and a reality show focused on the talents and mutual respect of the competitors, even though they're competing? Not really.  The 5th?  A genre show which are pretty popular on Primetimer based on the finalists in many of the other categories.

They're quality shows that make people happy.  I love many a show that didn't make the cut this year but I completely see why other choices were made.  And I would've supported Frasier in any year. 

Of the finalists, I think Frasier is easily my choice based on my personal criteria.  I have a bias against recency so The Good Place is out for me.  I need to see if we're talking about a show in a generally positive way at least ten years after it has gone off the air.  (Or if I'm feeling that way about a show.)  It's trickier with a show like  GBBO since it has been on forever and shows no signs of slowing down. I enjoy it but I don't see myself ever voting for a reality show.

Frasier took a character I didn't particularly care for on his original show (Cheers) and turned him into the titular character of one of my favorite comedies of all time. It had a great lead performance.  It had a stellar supporting cast, including  David Hyde Pierce who gave one of the more celebrated comedic performances in a sitcom. 

Frasier even had the dog!  Eddie had personality, attitude and motivation whose choices affected what the other characters did.

It's a show that combined very smart writing and terrific physical comedy. It was one of the few sitcoms that truly nailed the theatrical rhythm of farce that built to a hilarious third act.  Ham Radio, The Seal Who Came To Dinner, Ski Lodge, The Matchmaker, The Two Mrs. Cranes...are all classic episodes of TV that can be enjoyed with little to no previous knowledge of the show and are episodes of TV I will stop to watch if I see them on  my screen. It managed to go 11 seasons without turning its characters into caricatures and incorporated big name cameos without dating the show by having them appear as radio callers. 

Frasier is a show that was recognized by critics and audiences in its initial run. It is second only to Saturday Night Live in terms of how many Emmys it has won: 37 wins out of 108 nominations. It was a hit in its day and is still in syndication.

tl;dr:  I love Frasier, everyone.  I totally see why many people considered it as an option.

 

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4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't watch most of the shows that are up for any kind of awards this year. And I thought I was watching a lot of TV! Hardly anything I do watch gets any kind of mention. It's kind of funny. 

That's why I stopped watching award shows years ago.  I hadn't seen any of the shows or movies nominated.

Later that same day...

And now I can add these awards to my list of nominees I have no knowledge of.  Sooooo few categories I could vote on.

Edited by Johann
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I have two options I actually really like for GOAT — so I’m happy they both made it, and torn on which one to choose now!

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13 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't watch most of the shows that are up for any kind of awards this year.

There's just too much TV! I haven't seen WandaVision, The Mandalorian, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier or Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist, which seem to be on the short list for most categories. Ah well, good luck to them all.

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6 hours ago, purist said:

There's just too much TV! I haven't seen WandaVision, The Mandalorian, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier or Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist, which seem to be on the short list for most categories. Ah well, good luck to them all.

I don't have disney plus. So I also haven't seen any of the marvel shows or the mandalorian. I have to admit, I have yet to feel like I am missing something. I'm sure the shows are good but not worth paying extra for. I already have Netflix, Hulu and Amazon. 

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I have cable and HBO Max (no Netflix or Disney+), plus Hulu because I got the $2.99/month deal but I hardly ever look at it, so I voted for Lucifer in a bunch of categories even though I don't watch it because it's a DC Comics-based show.

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Just based on the nomination trends, streaming shows seem to be the innovative and thought provoking shows. I have been noticing this the last few years. Yes I think the pandemic played into how people watch tv/movies, but I have seen so much creativity from Disney+ and Netflix that I just haven't seen from "traditional" tv.

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Well, a lot of “traditional” tv didn’t air because of the work stoppage, while the streaming networks had stuff saved and were able to pace out airings. 

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I watch a lot of TV but I don't watch a lot of genre shows which seem to dominate the final categories.  I'm usually left with one choice I've actually seen.  Then I have to decide if I agree with the choice.  

That's why the earlier stuff is more fun for me.  I actually have two or three nominations which made the finals for their category.  I say 2 or three because there's a moment I nominated for something that is also nominated for something else.  I just can't recall if I nominated the moment in both categories or if I did one and someone did the other.  

 

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There were maybe two categories in which I didn't watch at least one of the shows. And those two I picked pretty much by reputation.

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20 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Well, a lot of “traditional” tv didn’t air because of the work stoppage, while the streaming networks had stuff saved and were able to pace out airings. 

That is a good point.

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I watched quite a few of the shows so had not probIem choosing in most of the categories.  I don't really watch reality tv or animated shows.   And by my count about three of my specific nominations made it to the final voting round so yay!

But I have to admit I was confused by the inclusion of Jimmy Woo and Darcy Lewis in the "That Guy Used To Suck: Favorite Character Redemption Arc" for Wandavision because in Wandavision they didn't suck.  So I assume they were in some other show where they did suck? Apparently a show I did not watch.  LOL.

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7 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

But I have to admit I was confused by the inclusion of Jimmy Woo and Darcy Lewis in the "That Guy Used To Suck: Favorite Character Redemption Arc" for Wandavision because in Wandavision they didn't suck.  So I assume they were in some other show where they did suck? Apparently a show I did not watch.  LOL.

Darcy was in the Thor movies and Woo was in the Ant-man movies. I never thought they sucked but they were largely comic relief characters who didn’t really get to do anything heroic, but they did in WandaVision, so I guess that’s the basis for their nominations.

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The way I see it, "character redemption" doesn't just mean "bad guy turns good". It also means that a character you once thought was kinda lame is now presented in a way that makes them much more interesting.

In "Ant Man & The Wasp", Jimmy Woo was kind of an awkward goofball, and was basically just there to be a foil for Scott. And Darcy was basically the comic relief from the first two Thor movies, and a lot of people thought she was kinda annoying. But on the show, Jimmy was a lot more self-assured and confident without losing his sense of humour, and Darcy was actually able to show her intelligence, rather than just spouting quips and one-liners while dodging debris. They weren't redeemed morally, but their characters sure as hell were.

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The final round polls were moved back so anyone can see how the voting shook out if they want. Caveat, though… you can only see the results if you voted in the poll. If you didn’t, well…

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Wow, stuff I nominated actually won! I thought the corgis and the Charles/Diana blowup in The Crown were long shots! 🎉🎉🎉

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51 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Wow, stuff I nominated actually won! I thought the corgis and the Charles/Diana blowup in The Crown were long shots! 🎉🎉🎉

Same.  I had two winners in Colin's death from MofE and The Bachelorette nomination for craziest thing on a reality show.  

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I have to confess: I disagree with almost every one of these.  Hell, most of them are shows I don't even watch.

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So wait I can't see the results for something that I didn't vote for? That is kind of disappointing. Lot of the times I didn't vote, because I didn't have an opinion having not seen any of the shows. But knowing why whatever one is interesting. 

 

edit: sorry was kind of annoyed about something totally unrelated. I am however, happy that my nomination won :). And actually most of the ones I cared about I did vote in.

Edited by blueray
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Nothing against it, but never in a billion years would I have guessed Frasier as GOAT. 

A couple I nominated, and several I voted for won, so yay. Still most of my very fave shows are unrepresented. But whatever. Anyway, yay adorable Colin Zabel's devastating death and Beth Harmon's killer ensembles. 

Edited by luna1122
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While I had far more categories to vote in during the final round this year, I'm back to normal now - I do not watch any of the winners of good awards, so "my" shows won Dispensable Character (D.J. on The Conners) and Worst Moment (Dr. Oz guest hosting Jeopardy!).

I only watched Frasier a couple of times when actors I liked guest starred (Allison Janney and Gillian Anderson [well, her voice anyway]).  I thought it was okay, and liked the supporting cast, but Kelsey Grammer bugs me.

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It's good to see the full results, it's at least a bit comforting that Batwoman only "won" by 1 vote difference, the hate that show gets makes me sad.

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I have a lot of issues with Batwoman, and have complained about them a lot, but I don't think it's anywhere close to the worst. I was surprised to see that one. 

 

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1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I have a lot of issues with Batwoman, and have complained about them a lot, but I don't think it's anywhere close to the worst. I was surprised to see that one. 

 

4 of the 5 choices were within 2 votes of each other. It was a crapshoot. 

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I think my only nominees that won were both Bridgerton related.

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51 minutes ago, Dani said:

4 of the 5 choices were within 2 votes of each other. It was a crapshoot. 

Yeah, I think that was our closest poll. 

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I had wanted to watch The Queens Gambit, but it’s nominations/wins have moved the needle. It will be my next series. 

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I still think The Simpsons should have won Worst Animated Show. Yeah, Family Guy sucks, but The Simpsons is long past it’s prime and needs to just die.

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18 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I had wanted to watch The Queens Gambit, but it’s nominations/wins have moved the needle. It will be my next series. 

I thought about it but… a tv series about chess just sounds really boring. I did watch Bridgerton, though. It was like Regency era Gossip Girl.

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I still think The Simpsons should have won Worst Animated Show. Yeah, Family Guy sucks, but The Simpsons is long past it’s prime and needs to just die.

It’s not like The Simpsons wasn’t nominated, people just seem to hate Family Guy more.

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6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I have a lot of issues with Batwoman, and have complained about them a lot, but I don't think it's anywhere close to the worst. I was surprised to see that one. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Dani said:

4 of the 5 choices were within 2 votes of each other. It was a crapshoot. 

It looks like the three Walking Dead shows split the votes. If only one of them had made it to the final round it probably would have won that award,

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The Queen's Gambit is not really about chess at all, I mean, there is chess in it, but it's not ABOUT chess. 

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3 Observations from Upthread:

(1)
It could be concluded that Primtimer Award voters at least vote like TV cult followers:

On 6/25/2021 at 2:16 PM, Roaster said:

Frasier has a cult following, which as near as I can tell formed after the show left the air.

Shows with cult followings tend to do better when there is a big field of candidates.

Previous GOAT winners were Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Golden Girls, both of which are cult shows

On 6/25/2021 at 2:50 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I didn't look at previous winners.  Those are... odd choices.  So I guess the category and nominees are meaningless, because - cult following or not - none of these shows are even close to the greatest of all time.  I've never seen Breaking Bad but I can concede that it's still a much better show and deserves to be a nominee based on what I do know, including its popularity across non-cult followers and its accolades.  

Bubble gum pop boy bands have cult followings too - it doesn't mean that they are Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame candidates.  


 

(2) 
Access to shows matters for the Primetimer Awards —whereas I guess all the Emmy voters have access to all and any shows?  
This was the first year some of mine made it to the finals and maybe even won (or were runners up —Thanks for including runners up!) and I also had more access because of becoming a neighbor to my daughter and son-in-law and their gift of his former bachelor pad Roku TV and the magic thereof. But the pandemic may be skewing this too.
 

(3)
@Irlandesa’s well-reasoned pitch on this thread for Frasier for GOAT seems to have paid off, and therefore others' in the future may too?

On 6/25/2021 at 6:58 PM, Irlandesa said:

…Frasier took a character I didn't particularly care for on his original show (Cheers) and turned him into the titular character of one of my favorite comedies of all time. It had a great lead performance.  It had a stellar supporting cast, including  David Hyde Pierce who gave one of the more celebrated comedic performances in a sitcom. 

Frasier even had the dog!  Eddie had personality, attitude and motivation whose choices affected what the other characters did.

It's a show that combined very smart writing and terrific physical comedy. It was one of the few sitcoms that truly nailed the theatrical rhythm of farce that built to a hilarious third act.  Ham Radio, The Seal Who Came To Dinner, Ski Lodge, The Matchmaker, The Two Mrs. Cranes...are all classic episodes of TV that can be enjoyed with little to no previous knowledge of the show and are episodes of TV I will stop to watch if I see them on  my screen. It managed to go 11 seasons without turning its characters into caricatures and incorporated big name cameos without dating the show by having them appear as radio callers. 

Frasier is a show that was recognized by critics and audiences in its initial run. It is second only to Saturday Night Live in terms of how many Emmys it has won: 37 wins out of 108 nominations. It was a hit in its day and is still in syndication.

tl;dr:  I love Frasier, everyone.  I totally see why many people considered it as an option


 

Edited by shapeshifter

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One more thing (as Columbo would say) 
This year's listing and linking and timing of the awards and winners was perfect!
Thanks for listening to all of our suggestions/complaints from past years! 🙏🏻🤗

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Meh. Not excited about the winners and don’t have access to most of the big ones anyway. I already subscribe to cable, Prime, Hulu, Netflix, Paramount+, and Peacock, and I’m not going to spend even more money on additional streaming services. I mean, how many should someone be expected to buy? HBO, Showtime, Disney+, Apple, Discovery+, Acorn...gimme a break.

The streaming industry needs to undergo some major consolidation. It’s out of control.

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5 hours ago, possibilities said:

The Queen's Gambit is not really about chess at all, I mean, there is chess in it, but it's not ABOUT chess. 

I did the gifs and most of my googling for it got results of people playing chess. Or chess sets on the ceiling? Whatever that was about…

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26 minutes ago, Kiddvideo said:

Meh. Not excited about the winners and don’t have access to most of the big ones anyway. I already subscribe to cable, Prime, Hulu, Netflix, Paramount+, and Peacock, and I’m not going to spend even more money on additional streaming services. I mean, how many should someone be expected to buy? HBO, Showtime, Disney+, Apple, Discovery+, Acorn...gimme a break.

The streaming industry needs to undergo some major consolidation. It’s out of control.

I heartily agree. We shouldn’t have to buy a ton of streaming services just to watch whatever we want.

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10 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I thought about it but… a tv series about chess just sounds really boring.

According to my mother, they used to show real chess matches on television. Now that's boring.

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11 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I had wanted to watch The Queens Gambit, but it’s nominations/wins have moved the needle. It will be my next series. 

 

10 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I thought about it but… a tv series about chess just sounds really boring.

I didn't plan on watching because I don't give a shit about chess and I'm not really into like period pieces but it was getting so much hype I was like fine I'll check it out. And I was so glad I did. It's very good.

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1 hour ago, Kiddvideo said:

Meh. Not excited about the winners and don’t have access to most of the big ones anyway. I already subscribe to cable, Prime, Hulu, Netflix, Paramount+, and Peacock, and I’m not going to spend even more money on additional streaming services. I mean, how many should someone be expected to buy? HBO, Showtime, Disney+, Apple, Discovery+, Acorn...gimme a break.

The streaming industry needs to undergo some major consolidation. It’s out of control.

I will say hbo max is by far worth the money. Paramount plus and peacock are not. IMO. Those are jump in when they have something worth watching but never keep for good. HBO Max has a crazy back catalogue and really good regular programming. Obviously it's based on what you value but Max is worth it. 

It doesn't matter, there is never enough time to watch everything. Never mind things you missed from the past. 

Get what you need. You are not missing out otherwise.

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1 hour ago, illdoc said:

According to my mother, they used to show real chess matches on television. Now that's boring.

I would have agreed in the past, but during the pandemic I have really got into watching live chess on Youtube.  Lots of people have, apparently, as I keep reading about a "chess boom" in 2020-2021.

While old-style "classical" chess is still played - the top players take 4+ hours to complete games which often end in draws - the more common form on the internet is "rapid chess" where the games usually last about a half hour.  There are even shorter formats (e.g. bullet chess).

Further, new tournaments have arisen to take advantage of the internet.  For instance, the Meltwater Champions Chess tour.  It has the top players in the world.  They play from home on the internet.  The combination of technology and shorter formats has gone a lone way to making chess a viable spectator sport.

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Can't believe WandaVision didn't win best opening credits/theme song! :(  I'm glad the show won so many other categories but man, the music they composed was amazing. And the various opening credits were great too, whether animated or paying homage to tv shows like Family Ties... just so well done!

I never watched Supernatural but "Carry On Wayward Son" is a cover/not written for that show, right? Doesn't seem fair it would be up against (and win!) over original compositions.

Sorry to whine about it, and sorry if I've offended any Supernatural fans... but the first post in this thread says you're allowed to complain if your favs didn't win so... ;)

While I'm complaining... My So-Called Life is definitely one of the Greatest Shows Of All Time (excellent writing, acting, cinematography, music, etc., etc., - plus it only had one season before cancellation so it never had a chance to go downhill like most of the other nominees did ;)) and I'm bummed it didn't even make the top 5 nominees. So I voted for WKRP. Since it was the only option that I'd seen and enjoyed, and I think it's stood the test of time. Too bad that didn't win either!

Well it was fun nominating and voting for things anyway (I basically came out of lurkdom 'cause I couldn't resist supporting my favs) - but I guess I don't tend to love the super-popular things. WandaVision is an exception... but then of course it still doesn't win in "my" category! :P  Sigh.

Edited by chrisrose
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