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S10.E06: Episode 6


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50 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Sister Julienne was SUPER discreet about it and kept it a secret even though in the 1950s and 60s, being an active female alcoholic was kind of a major moral failing. Sister Julienne certainly didn't report it to the Mother House and sent Trixie to AA and discreetly never directly mentions Trixie's problem lest anyone *really* find out because Trixie WOULD be fired. 

Now Nancy was foolish beyond belief to mention the child to others, but its kind of crummy that Sister Julienne will cover things up for Trixie but not Nancy because when it's Nancy its suddenly wrong to lie and keep secrets about moral failings. 

Exactly. What bugged me was not that Trixie was an alcoholic, but that she was drunk on the job, and endangered people. As you said, everyone who knew covered that up big time, saying she was "feeling unwell, " including Sr Julienne. It's one of the reasons I dislike Trixie. After the second time she was passed out on the job, she was crying to Sr Julienne about it was because she was so upset that she and her boyfriend had broken up, again it was all about her, which I think is a moral failing, and Sr Julienne let it go, again. Totally crummy!

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3 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Now Nancy was foolish beyond belief to mention the child to others, but its kind of crummy that Sister Julienne will cover things up for Trixie but not Nancy because when it's Nancy its suddenly wrong to lie and keep secrets about moral failings. 

Sister Julienne said no when Nancy asked if she couldn’t just look the other way, but we don’t know yet how it will actually play out and what SJ will do. It seems premature to say Nancy’s career is ruined. The scene between them was the beginning, not the end of the story. 

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19 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

And Nonnatus House is a religious organization, so they surely have rules that would not necessarily apply to non-religious organizations.

But Sr. J said she would not have been able to be a nurse at all.  That has nothing to do with Nonnatus house.  Again, I don't know about other countries but that was definitely not the case in the US.

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On 11/8/2021 at 9:08 AM, AZChristian said:

I looked online, and 100 pounds back then was the equivalent of 2,000 pounds today.  Sounds like a more generous gift now.  LOL.

This. We’re looking at it once again through a modern day lens. Sr. J seemed quite grateful, and besides, I don’t think the man is “super” rich. Doesn’t he work in “finance”? It’s not like he’s in the ruling class with a title or anything. I got the impression that the couple were well-enough off that the wife didn’t have to work, just a tad over “comfortable”. Yes, he could afford to hire a nanny, but I saw no evidence that he had any other help and while the home was spacious and had nice furnishings, it didn’t seem to scream opulence. 
I was very impressed with Sr. Frances’s stepping up and showing great initiative this episode! How far she’s come from the timid newbie (and another instance of Sr. J initially being a stick in the mud about it).  I was quite relieved when she finally suggested a trial, with community support. 

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6 hours ago, caitmcg said:

Sister Julienne said no when Nancy asked if she couldn’t just look the other way, but we don’t know yet how it will actually play out and what SJ will do. It seems premature to say Nancy’s career is ruined. The scene between them was the beginning, not the end of the story. 

I said it because Sr Julienne said it. She said no nursing program would accept her, and wouldn't even look at her when she dismissed her. Things may shape up differently, but that was the hard line Sr J took, with zero compassion, at this point.

14 minutes ago, Daff said:

I was very impressed with Sr. Frances’s stepping up and showing great initiative this episode! How far she’s come from the timid newbie

I thought that too. They all were timid newbies at one point, except for Nurse Crane, of course, and they all grew in confidence, and it is nice to see Sr Frances doing so too. I wonder where Sr Hilda has gone?

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7 minutes ago, susannah said:

I said it because Sr Julienne said it. She said no nursing program would accept her, and wouldn't even look at her when she dismissed her. Things may shape up differently, but that was the hard line Sr J took, with zero compassion, at this point.

I thought that too. They all were timid newbies at one point, except for Nurse Crane, of course, and they all grew in confidence, and it is nice to see Sr Frances doing so too. I wonder where Sr Hilda has gone?

Didn’t it seem as though each episode this season was missing someone? Maybe the actors are all getting periodic breaks from the filming schedule. Could be budget, work conflicts, etc. 

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39 minutes ago, Daff said:

Didn’t it seem as though each episode this season was missing someone? Maybe the actors are all getting periodic breaks from the filming schedule. Could be budget, work conflicts, etc. 

"Sister Hilda" recently played a nurse on two episodes of the new series "Dalgliesh."  

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2 hours ago, Cetacean said:

But Sr. J said she would not have been able to be a nurse at all.  That has nothing to do with Nonnatus house.  Again, I don't know about other countries but that was definitely not the case in the US.

And again, this show isn't set in the US.  Maybe someone here is/has been/knows someone who trained as a nurse in the UK in the 60s?  I'd love to hear a British perspective.  Especially since the show tends to be very good about making sure the historical setting is accurate.

 

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14 hours ago, susannah said:

They would never have known she has one until she told them, so one minute she is upstanding, and as soon as they know, she isn't?

Back in the day? Yep, as ridiculous as that is.

14 hours ago, susannah said:

Trixie did say that she was speaking only for herself but again, she was employed by a religious organization. Just because Trixie said she was speaking on her own, that doesn't mean everyone would believe it.

How would anyone find out Trixie worked for Nonnatus House? They couldn't just google her name and see what turned up. You'd have to  do some digging, and I doubt anyone cared that much to invest that sort of time.

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Back in the day? Yep, as ridiculous as that is.

How would anyone find out Trixie worked for Nonnatus House? They couldn't just google her name and see what turned up. You'd have to  do some digging, and I doubt anyone cared that much to invest that sort of time.

Everyone in Poplar would know her.

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6 hours ago, Daff said:

This. We’re looking at it once again through a modern day lens.

Plus we're looking at that gift through an American lens.  The 100 pounds then would be about 2000 pounds then and about 2680 in dollars.

15 hours ago, susannah said:

What bugged me was not that Trixie was an alcoholic, but that she was drunk on the job, and endangered people. As you said, everyone who knew covered that up big time, saying she was "feeling unwell, " including Sr Julienne. It's one of the reasons I dislike Trixie. After the second time she was passed out on the job, she was crying to Sr Julienne about it was because she was so upset that she and her boyfriend had broken up, again it was all about her, which I think is a moral failing, and Sr Julienne let it go, again. Totally crummy!

Well Trixie was drunk on the job because she was an alcoholic as in addicted and unable to control herself with alcohol. 

I don't know why we have to trash Trixie because of Nancy.  Trixie was an entirely different case.  She had been working under Sister Julienne for many years, doing excellent work, going above and beyond in many ways like when she climbed a rope ladder up the side of the ship to help a prostitute who needed her. Trixie has never been the least bit judgmental herself and had been totally reliable until the time came when she no longer had control over herself. That lack of control is the definition of alcoholism.  If Trixie had been able to say she wouldn't drink because she was on call, and stick to that resolve, she wouldn't be an alcoholic.

Her alcoholism came on gradually and, as is usually the case, something drastic had to happen before she admitted she had lost control of it and needed help.  When that happened, she was honest about it with Sister Julienne and she was willing to take immediate action to change.  After that Sister Julienne watched her and saw that she never missed a meeting, never drank a drop again, even when it was very tempting like with the boyfriend who wanted her to drink.

Sister Julienne, giving a second chance to someone like Trixie who she had known and loved for years and had proved herself to be a good person in every other way, is different than hiring someone brand new who doesn't meet the requirements up front and is found to have lied about it.

Trixie being drunk may have endangered a life but Nancy's choice ensured that a child is now being raised in an orphanage so I don't agree that she's so much better than Trixie.

Edited by JudyObscure
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I don't think Trixie  is being trashed, its really more Sister Julianne taking the hit for being forgiving with Trixie's moral failing but being hard-nosed and life ruining to Nancy. I think Trixie was lucky to not have her career dreams dashed. 

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1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Plus we're looking at that gift through an American lens.  The 100 pounds then would be about 2000 pounds then and about 2680 in dollars.

Well Trixie was drunk on the job because she was an alcoholic as in addicted and unable to control herself with alcohol. 

I don't know why we have to trash Trixie because of Nancy.  Trixie was an entirely different case.  She had been working under Sister Julienne for many years, doing excellent work, going above and beyond in many ways like when she climbed a rope ladder up the side of the ship to help a prostitute who needed her. Trixie has never been the least bit judgmental herself and had been totally reliable until the time came when she no longer had control over herself. That lack of control is the definition of alcoholism.  If Trixie had been able to say she wouldn't drink because she was on call, and stick to that resolve, she wouldn't be an alcoholic.

Her alcoholism came on gradually and, as is usually the case, something drastic had to happen before she admitted she had lost control of it and needed help.  When that happened, she was honest about it with Sister Julienne and she was willing to take immediate action to change.  After that Sister Julienne watched her and saw that she never missed a meeting, never drank a drop again, even when it was very tempting like with the boyfriend who wanted her to drink.

Sister Julienne, giving a second chance to someone like Trixie who she had known and loved for years and had proved herself to be a good person in every other way, is different than hiring someone brand new who doesn't meet the requirements up front and is found to have lied about it.

Trixie being drunk may have endangered a life but Nancy's choice ensured that a child is now being raised in an orphanage so I don't agree that she's so much better than Trixie.

Trixie being drunk on the job happened twice, and neither time did she have any consequence. It doesn't matter how "good" a person is, midwives have people's lives in their hands, and if they aren't able to stay sober on the job, they should not be on the job. She wasn't honest in any way with Sr Julienne, she got found out after the fact, both times, and I don't know what you mean about Sr J "watching" her. Way to completely give someone a pass for all their behavior! I also disagree that Trixie has never been judgmental. She was of Tom when he didn't go along with her visions of married life, and she was of Patsy when she arrived.

37 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I don't think Trixie  is being trashed, its really more Sister Julianne taking the hit for being forgiving with Trixie's moral failing but being hard-nosed and life ruining to Nancy. I think Trixie was lucky to not have her career dreams dashed. 

Thank you! I also did say that though I dislike Trixie, I would feel the same way if it was any of the others that were drunk on the job, that they should be fired.

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On 5/24/2021 at 11:18 AM, maggiegil said:

I thought the shaming of Nancy by Sr Julienne for being a single mother and therefore of bad character etc was sad but very true to the times and probably the attitude of most Nuns back then. I think we forget how recent it is that women were absolutely shamed for being a single mother and how it was seen to be such a character defect. Its sad but its true to life and I think sometimes the programme wants to shy away from the ugly way that society used to treat unmarried mothers, ethnic minorities etc rather than being true to the time period.

This is so true.

I graduated in the 80s. My freshman year, my high school allowed the first pregnant girl to graduate on stage with her classmates. She fought the school district. Until then, the policy allowed boys (who'd gotten someone pregnant) to graduate and fully participate with their classmates. The girls were not allowed to do the same. They had their diplomas mailed to them.

Until Shelley (remembered her name as I was typing) protested everyone just accepted that rule. It turned the town upside down, by the way.  1988. Angry letters to the local paper, protests, emergency school board meetings. The whole nine.

Graduation was actually standing room only.  It turned into a spectacle. When she crossed the stage - seven months pregnant - half the crowd stood up and cheered, the other half booed. 

That's what I love about this show. It's so easy to forget that this is recent history for a lot of viewers. The strides made in our lifetime. I don't think this show gets enough credit.

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12 hours ago, ChelleGame said:

This is so true.

I graduated in the 80s. My freshman year, my high school allowed the first pregnant girl to graduate on stage with her classmates. She fought the school district. Until then, the policy allowed boys (who'd gotten someone pregnant) to graduate and fully participate with their classmates. The girls were not allowed to do the same. They had their diplomas mailed to them.

Until Shelley (remembered her name as I was typing) protested everyone just accepted that rule. It turned the town upside down, by the way.  1988. Angry letters to the local paper, protests, emergency school board meetings. The whole nine.

Graduation was actually standing room only.  It turned into a spectacle. When she crossed the stage - seven months pregnant - half the crowd stood up and cheered, the other half booed. 

That's what I love about this show. It's so easy to forget that this is recent history for a lot of viewers. The strides made in our lifetime. I don't think this show gets enough credit.

It is a good reminder. As a women I'm ashamed of how we always take the blame for something that takes 2 people. Men always get a pass, they are so "weak" (please) I would have been clapping for Shelly because she deserves to be seen as a person who is graduating amid more than most and shouldn't be treated differently than the guy. I hope more and more parents are bringing up their sons to be men and not a hormone. I hope they are teaching them to be responsible for their actions and that actions have consequences.  Women were told what to feel, how they should treat adoption feelings, miscarriage, etc. and it was "ignore". Only now in UK, have they addressed the horrible care of women who had babies they gave up or miscarried. They have programs for finding graves and giving respect to their children.

I have followed this show from the beginning but if you jump in here and there, you miss the progression of the years and growth of the community.

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16 hours ago, ChelleGame said:

I graduated in the 80s. My freshman year, my high school allowed the first pregnant girl to graduate on stage with her classmates. She fought the school district. Until then, the policy allowed boys (who'd gotten someone pregnant) to graduate and fully participate with their classmates. The girls were not allowed to do the same. They had their diplomas mailed to them

So true. I graduated mid 70s, and no pregnant girl was allowed to walk with her classmates. The boys who were known to have impregnated girls, including a 13 year old girl, were allowed to graduate and fully participate. It was sickening.

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11 minutes ago, susannah said:

The boys who were known to have impregnated girls, including a 13 year old girl, were allowed to graduate and fully participate. It was sickening.

And what was more sickening is that the boys were celebrated by their peers while the girls were called sluts.  Sadly, that's still the case.

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6 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

And what was more sickening is that the boys were celebrated by their peers while the girls were called sluts.  Sadly, that's still the case.

So true. Sadly, this culture of male sexual entitlement is fostered by both fathers and mothers, the ones who want their sons to be "real men." There is so much that has to change for the culture to change. We have to teach girls and boys that girls are valuable and worthy whether they have a boyfriend or not, that they never have to accept being treated badly or ever as sexual objects. Boys have to be taught to respect girls. I think this education needs to start in first grade and continued through the years.

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18 hours ago, ChelleGame said:

I graduated in the 80s. My freshman year, my high school allowed the first pregnant girl to graduate on stage with her classmates. She fought the school district. .... The girls were not allowed to do the same. They had their diplomas mailed to them....Angry letters to the local paper, protests, emergency school board meetings. The whole nine.

Graduation was actually standing room only.  It turned into a spectacle. When she crossed the stage - seven months pregnant - half the crowd stood up and cheered, the other half booed. 

 

What a horrible story!  I have to say I'm surprised it was as recent as that.

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

It needs to start much earlier than first grade. I'd start as soon as possible after birth.

And let's be blunt. We still treat girls as "lesser than".  How many women are in top government or corporate positions?  We have to work twice as hard to be treated as competent and intelligent.  And the Good Old Boys chuckle, pat our heads, and go off to their clubs to drink and smoke cigars and talk about how cute or ugly we are!  Rape in the military continues to be a horrendous problem but it's a Good Old Boys network so nothing will change.

With that said, as horrible as the story was and how heart wrenching the cries from the young mother, it was really the only solution for her.  Back then, as we were so bluntly informed, she would never be able to pursue an education or a job if she'd kept the baby.  There was no way to pass it off as her mom's at that late stage.  They seemed like a loving young couple but with no future as a family.

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1 hour ago, Cetacean said:

With that said, as horrible as the story was and how heart wrenching the cries from the young mother, it was really the only solution for her.  Back then, as we were so bluntly informed, she would never be able to pursue an education or a job if she'd kept the baby.  There was no way to pass it off as her mom's at that late stage.  They seemed like a loving young couple but with no future as a family.

My large urban California public high school had a program to help students who had babies finish school, with an on-site daycare for their children. That was an exception in the early 1980s, and is an exception even now.

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A lot of the taboos about teen moms and single women having babies without a husband collapsed in the 1980s, in my opinion. I can remember, late 1978, visiting a friend's home with my mother and wondering why their daughter had a different last name than their son and I was soundly shushed quiet. It was later explained that the daughter was *a bastard* born out of wedlock and while she was no different than her brother, it wasn't nice to discuss it or the circumstances that led to it. By the end of the 1980s single moms were ok and teen moms were not completely shamed out of school. Heck, when I graduated high school, my only Black classmate was understood by all to be the product of an affair by her mother, as she had brothers older and younger who were white, and it was no big deal. Kinda like how being gay was awful until suddenly it wasn't. 

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On 11/7/2021 at 7:40 PM, Blackie said:

 I find the character Nancy all over the place, I still don't really get what she is about,

Same here. She was entirely different in this episode than before.

On 11/8/2021 at 8:54 AM, LittleIggy said:

I felt bad for Nancy’s daughter having to grow up in an orphanage. I thought children in orphanages were eligible for adoption.

I don't know what orphanages that don't adopt out children are like in England...but I had a friend in the late 60s in Germany who was in an "orphanage" for children whose parent/s would not give up their rights. I visited her orphanage once, and it was a very pleasant place. The children were broken up into family type units, with one or two adults ( "tantes" - aunts). They had their own living area, and ate their meals as a family, not with all the children in the orphanage. So their lives were as close to "normal" as possible. My sister-in-law and her brother had also been raised in a similar orphanage. These were not horror shows as many are portrayed. To be fair, there were certainly nightmarish places. But I doubt Nancy would leave her child in one of them.

On 11/8/2021 at 4:09 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

Giving a baby a life with a home and (presumably) loving family seems like a no-brainer over being raised in an orphanage with little realistic hope of her mother ever going to be able to take her home. Heck, I would think even Nancy, who was raised in an orphanage herself (though I'm not sure if they said for how long?), would agree, even though it would obviously be heart-wrenching.

To me it seems that given her own upbringing, she saw this type of orphanage as a perfectly decent place to live.  She's been in her daughter's life as a family member (sister) all along, and is working hard to come to a point when she can provide and live with her. So personally, I don't think she would agree.

I thought Sister Julianne was unduly harsh to Nancy. Her beef was that she'd been lied to by the nuns, and I do understand the complications she's seeing for herself and Nonnatus House, but still it came across as laying the blame entirely on Nancy. I'm not even that fond of Nancy, and I thought it was very unlike S. J.

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On 11/15/2021 at 2:33 PM, Clanstarling said:

The children were broken up into family type units, with one or two adults ( "tantes" - aunts). They had their own living area, and ate their meals as a family, not with all the children in the orphanage.

Yes, that is called the "cottage model," and it is much better than the mass warehousing of earlier years.

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On 11/8/2021 at 9:21 AM, dubbel zout said:

The editing was weird when Phyllis gave Trixie a ride to the BBC and a bit later we see Phyllis racing into Nonnatus House to ask if everyone heard the broadcast. Where was Phyllis? Did she listen at the BBC? These tiny cuts are so stupid.

Phyllis probably listened in the car on the way back,* but this whole thing was a bit odd. Trixie couldn't have used a ride back to Nonnatus House? Phyllis drove Trixie to the studio to support her and then just left her there, but it doesn't seem like Phyllis was going anywhere else or doing anything else. Oh well.

*Assuming she had a radio license. "Radio sets, including car radios, were exempted from the fee in 1971." per https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/oct/11/bbc.broadcasting1

Edited by dcalley
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On 11/8/2021 at 8:44 AM, DonnaMae said:

 

How does Trixie afford so many fashionable clothes?  We keep seeing new ones every episode.

 

It's explained that Trixie has a rich aunt in Portofino, Italy.

 

On 11/8/2021 at 12:48 PM, LittleIggy said:

In the ‘70s, I read a really good book about the Partition titled “Freedom At Midnight.” It was shocking to me, a teenager, that people who had peacefully coexisted and even been friends turned on each other. Unfortunately, such things are not surprising anymore. ☹️

 

You're reminding me to reread Freedom at Midnight!  Fascinating and certainly eye-opening.  Midnight's Children is an excellent novel that covers Partition.

On 11/10/2021 at 7:12 AM, proserpina65 said:

And again, this show isn't set in the US.  Maybe someone here is/has been/knows someone who trained as a nurse in the UK in the 60s?  I'd love to hear a British perspective.  Especially since the show tends to be very good about making sure the historical setting is accurate.

 

As Shaw said, "Two nations divided by a common language."  So many assumptions are made about each country by citizens of the other because of this shared language.

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