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S01.E06: Sore Must Be the Storm

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14 hours ago, raven said:

Is it me or is Frank kind of useless?  He's blaming Mare - or at least being snide to her - for Faye being at her mother's instead of realizing that maybe he shouldn't have lied about his interactions with Erin.   Eh, shut up Frank and take responsibility for what you've done/not done.

Seriously. Frank sucks. 

13 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Sending [Siobhan] to the house WASN'T the best idea, but again unfortunately in line with my personal experience - parents, even when they come face to face with how bad the addiction and mental illness have gotten, can have these MASSIVE gaps. Surely they're not dangerous for their siblings to be around! I definitely think people in this writers' room have gone through similar trauma because it's hitting a lot of notes with me. Sadly enough. 

This. They are doing 'being in the family of an addict' so realistically that I think someone involved has to have lived through that.

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20 minutes ago, blixie said:

Gordon Clapp is playing the Ross brothers dad and his most famous role was NYPD Blue, pretty sure he's gonna turn out to be an ex Easttown cop.

29 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I was wondering about John and Billy's dad, but only because of who the actor is. Was Mr. Ross a cop? 

Also, Siobhan would have access to Mare's father's gun. 

Makes sense that Gordon Clapp's character has a larger role to play. And if he was a cop and had that type of gun, Billy and/John would have access to it. Now to find it...

 

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35 minutes ago, Haleth said:

reeeeally hope it wasn’t Siobhan. What a messed up family. 

It would be hard to take. I remember Siobhan talking about a video her brother had sent her, and that she had always had the feeling someone else was there with him, and all we saw of the video was him with his feet in the surf at the beach.  I dunno, could be nothing. Could be something.  I've been WRONG every step of the way. But I was wondering if she found out something about Kevin that pushed her to do something rash. 

Edited by cardigirl
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Here are my two takes on Erin's murder. They each involve both Ross boys: 

(1) Billy is the father of Erin's baby and John knows this. Billy and Erin were meeting up that night to hang out, drink, have sex. Erin somehow tries to get money out of Billy ("I'll tell" threats, she charges for it now, etc.) for DJ's ear surgery. They are drunk and argue and the argument escalates to physical -- maybe she runs away and he tries to shoot at her but is too drunk and that's why her finger is shot off and the bullet in the tree. She falls and hurts herself badly. He grabs her and is holding her trying to shake her awake or something, which is how he gets covered in blood. Drunk, not thinking clearly, he calls John for help. John says he'll get rid of her body but she wakes up or stirs in the truck, and John kills her and dumps her in the creek but lets Billy think she was dead and Billy is the murderer. 

(2) Similar approach but with John as the father. Erin wants to meet with John but he refuses and sends Billy in his place, with a "take my gun, just in case." Argument ensues, she runs, he shoots at her and misses, and calls John. John tracks Erin down, kills her, returns to a drunk Billy and convinces him he shot her when she was running. In the days following, John continues to psychologically manipulate Billy to solidify the story in Billy's mind. 

RE: Dylan -- I think its more likely he's a drug dealer than a pimp -- remember the girls were putting themselves on a website, which enables them to control who they choose to sell their bodies too -- it eliminates the need for a pimp. Unless the third friend has the skill to run a website like that, Dylan isn't smart enough to be behind something like that. He's absolutely a sociopath but I don't think he's a pimp. 

Edited by SailorGirl
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What I'm thinking right now is that John had a sexual relationship with Erin that Billy (and probably Ryan) knew about. John killed Erin with Billy present and has either convinced Billy he did it or manipulated Billy into taking the fall for him. ETA: Or possibly Billy accidentally killed Erin. 

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36 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

What I'm thinking right now is that John had a sexual relationship with Erin that Billy (and probably Ryan) knew about. 

I just realized that sexual jealousy would explain the weirdly intense vehemence with which Billy tells John "...because you couldn't keep your dick in your pants." I mean, Billy's intensity when he says that is way beyond "You're fucking up your own life, dude."

Edited by Penman61
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1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

Here are my two takes on Erin's murder. They each involve both Ross boys: 

(1) Billy is the father of Erin's baby and John knows this. Billy and Erin were meeting up that night to hang out, drink, have sex. Erin somehow tries to get money out of Billy ("I'll tell" threats, she charges for it now, etc.) for DJ's ear surgery. They are drunk and argue and the argument escalates to physical -- maybe she runs away and he tries to shoot at her but is too drunk and that's why her finger is shot off and the bullet in the tree. She falls and hurts herself badly. He grabs her and is holding her trying to shake her awake or something, which is how he gets covered in blood. Drunk, not thinking clearly, he calls John for help. John says he'll get rid of her body but she wakes up or stirs in the truck, and John kills her and dumps her in the creek but lets Billy think she was dead and Billy is the murderer. 

(2) Similar approach but with John as the father. Erin wants to meet with John but he refuses and sends Billy in his place, with a "take my gun, just in case." Argument ensues, she runs, he shoots at her and misses, and calls John. John tracks Erin down, kills her, returns to a drunk Billy and convinces him he shot her when she was running. In the days following, John continues to psychologically manipulate Billy to solidify the story in Billy's mind. 

RE: Dylan -- I think its more likely he's a drug dealer than a pimp -- remember the girls were putting themselves on a website, which enables them to control who they choose to sell their bodies too -- it eliminates the need for a pimp. Unless the third friend has the skill to run a website like that, Dylan isn't smart enough to be behind something like that. He's absolutely a sociopath but I don't think he's a pimp. 

 

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1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

RE: Dylan -- I think its more likely he's a drug dealer than a pimp -- remember the girls were putting themselves on a website, which enables them to control who they choose to sell their bodies too -- it eliminates the need for a pimp. Unless the third friend has the skill to run a website like that, Dylan isn't smart enough to be behind something like that.

And I got the impression that the website was supposed to be, like, Seeking Arrangement, which is an already established, well-known sugar baby/sex work site. Also if Dylan were pimping the girls, I'd think he'd be around during the tricks - seems to me that's part of why you give a pimp a cut. You're paying for at least some measure of protection.

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John and Lori talking about potentially adopting DJ takes on a different meaning if John is the father. 

Edited by MinorL · Reason: Typos
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3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Makes sense that Gordon Clapp's character has a larger role to play. And if he was a cop and had that type of gun, Billy and/John would have access to it. Now to find it...

 

He could have wandered into the Carroll house and taken the gun by mistake. 

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7 minutes ago, MinorL said:

John and Lori talking about potentially adopting DJ takes on a different meaning of a John is the father. 

Definitely. This town has some real crappy guys running around.

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2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I just realized that sexual jealousy would explain the weirdly intense vehemence with which Billy tells John "...because you couldn't keep your dick in your pants." I mean, Billy's intensity when he says that is way beyond "You're fucking up your own life, dude."

It is possible that Billy didn't have an affair with Erin, but actually gave a crap in a favorite niece kind of way. 

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R E A C H....but I've seen stranger things.  There's a chance the Ross father impregnated Erin, hell, maybe he shot her too.  Gross, I know.  However, he never said anything about why Billy might have killed Erin.  Why not ask the question?  Neither did John.  The father was at the reunion too.  This would be the ultimate surprise right?  Where's their mom?  Maybe the Apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.  Acts all accusatory and sanctimonious with John when all along he messed up with Erin?  Maybe she saw him as a father or grandfather figure.  The boys may want to cover up for their dad.

Edited by IgotThis
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49 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

It is possible that Billy didn't have an affair with Erin, but actually gave a crap in a favorite niece kind of way. 

Thanks. That feeling could explain Billy's vehemence.

But aren't we pretty sure Billy gave Erin the necklace? Didn't it say "Billy Ross" on the receipt (printed on the form on the left side; the handwritten side on the right just said "Ross.") It's a bit weird for a 30-something male to give his teenage niece a heart necklace, isn't it? 

Ugh, I hate having to think like this. Uncles should be able to give their teenage nieces meaningful keepsakes! But I guess all the untold generations of raping/abuse revokes some privileges.

Edited by Penman61
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8 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

(printed on the form on the left side; the handwritten side on the right just said "Ross.")

Lannister

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13 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:
13 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

By the way, love your name but I cannot for the life of me remember where it came from. It was a mantra on a show I saw once. What was it?

George’s father repeats this on “Seinfeld.”

Edited 7 hours ago by hoodooznoodooz

Thank you! 🙂

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6 hours ago, blixie said:

Gordon Clapp is playing the Ross brothers dad and his most famous role was NYPD Blue, pretty sure he's gonna turn out to be an ex Easttown cop.

I thought that was him. My God he has aged, which means so have I! I feel so old😳

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2 hours ago, MinorL said:

John and Lori talking about potentially adopting DJ takes on a different meaning if John is the father. 

Definitely.  It is much more likely that Lori initiated this possibility which could point to her knowing that John (or Billy) is the father.

 

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41 minutes ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Thank you! 🙂

You’re very welcome! 
(This is the kind of thing that would prevent me from falling asleep, so I thought I would tell you ASAP, in case @SerenityNow721 was too busy.)

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Colin's mom slapping Mare was completely within the trope of Grieving Family Member Taking It Out on the Cop That Let It Happen, so I was completely expecting it.

On the other hand, I thought Winslet's reaction broke the trope. It's typically a stoic, somber, 'yeah I get that', but she looked honestly shocked and stung. I mean, surely Mare has seen a cop show before? She couldn't have predicted a tropey slap? ;D

We haven't seen Erin's dad since the 'murdur durdur' sketch, which made me marvel at how the SNL H&M dept nailed that look!

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On 5/24/2021 at 5:30 PM, Penman61 said:

Agree. I read the slaps as completing her characterization as an entitled, over-enmeshed asshole parent with control issues, not “wow but it’s ok she’s grieving some people hit lol.”

And also, Colin CHOSE to be a cop/detective. Risk is part of the job. Not Mare's fault.

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On 5/24/2021 at 4:36 PM, Dminches said:

Plus, to a teenager Frank and John look alike.  Adult male with a salt and pepper beard.

Good points.

 

People don’t really expect Zabel’s mom to act rationally days after her son was killed?  Maybe in 5 or 10 years.  Plus, she already viewed Mare as someone who wasn’t good for her son.

 

I found it confusing in the first episode that many of the men looked to much alike to tell apart easily. Awesome that that might have been deliberate!

Don't expect her to act rationally, but most people don't start slapping people even in the first overwhelming stage of grief. 

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16 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

And also, Colin CHOSE to be a cop/detective. Risk is part of the job. Not Mare's fault.

Yes. Also, that dude who SHOT Colin is 100% responsible for his death. Not Mare. Not Mom. Not the victims. Not the Thin Blue Line. Not Twinkies. No one but the rapist/murderer. 

 

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23 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I actually wonder about Dylan's father, it would explain why they are eager to adopt DJ. Dylan could be trying to protect him by burning the diaries.

I think it's because they already love DJ, and the trauma of losing all continuity would scar that baby psychologically for life. Plus, their only child (Dylan) is a dick.

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7 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I just realized that sexual jealousy would explain the weirdly intense vehemence with which Billy tells John "...because you couldn't keep your dick in your pants." I mean, Billy's intensity when he says that is way beyond "You're fucking up your own life, dude."

This could be or, like someone else mentioned, maybe Billy is disgusted by John having a sexual relationship with their cousin. I'm just holding onto hope that Billy is a decent person lol.

4 hours ago, Penman61 said:

But aren't we pretty sure Billy gave Erin the necklace? Didn't it say "Billy Ross" on the receipt (printed on the form on the left side; the handwritten side on the right just said "Ross.") 

Ah, I didn't notice that. I just saw the Ross, which was why I was a bit confused by why Mare suddenly went straight for Billy. That would make more sense if the receipt had Billy's name on it. 

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21 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Dylan's dad can't be the baby's father unless he is not Dylan's father or unless that was the most inaccurate paternity test they gave Dylan and DJ from the start. The test would have shown Dylan as a relative but not the father.

Oh, yeah...the DNA... I was going on sideburn length.

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6 hours ago, Penman61 said:

But aren't we pretty sure Billy gave Erin the necklace? Didn't it say "Billy Ross" on the receipt (printed on the form on the left side; the handwritten side on the right just said "Ross.") It's a bit weird for a 30-something male to give his teenage niece a heart necklace, isn't it? 

Thank you, I didn’t noticed about the receipt on the left.

Based on the reunion pic, it seems like Billy has a crush on Erin, the way he looked at her.

Obviously something had happened during that reunion weekend based on what John said to Billy “You understand? Dad saw you. What the fuck am gonna do. Mare’s asking around. She knows about the reunion. What went on up there, only a matter of time.” 

 

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CB7D189A-260C-493A-81B9-09664A842A29.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Based on the reunion pic, it seems like Billy has a crush on Erin, the way he looked at her.

CB7D189A-260C-493A-81B9-09664A842A29.jpeg

skip to 1:35

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11 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

What I'm thinking right now is that John had a sexual relationship with Erin that Billy (and probably Ryan) knew about. John killed Erin with Billy present and has either convinced Billy he did it or manipulated Billy into taking the fall for him. ETA: Or possibly Billy accidentally killed Erin. 

Yeah Erin being shot accidentally makes sense considering the way she was shot. It was a graze not a direct hit. Maybe Erin met up with John to get money for DJ's surgery. Billy found them and tried to shoot John but hit Erin instead. He was traumatized and/or drunk so he doesn't remember exactly what happened.

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If you survive childhood and adolescence in Easttown, you are tough and or lucky.

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10 hours ago, attica said:

Colin's mom slapping Mare was completely within the trope of Grieving Family Member Taking It Out on the Cop That Let It Happen, so I was completely expecting it.

On the other hand, I thought Winslet's reaction broke the trope. It's typically a stoic, somber, 'yeah I get that', but she looked honestly shocked and stung. I mean, surely Mare has seen a cop show before? She couldn't have predicted a tropey slap? ;D

Thank you!!!

That’s what I thought, too. Mare looked so surprised and kept her hand to her cheek for a long time. I mean, if you have any common sense, you’d anticipate how Colin’s mother would react.

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3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

That’s what I thought, too. Mare looked so surprised and kept her hand to her cheek for a long time. I mean, if you have any common sense, you’d anticipate how Colin’s mother would react.

[Script meeting room]

Zobel: Where does it say Mare gets slapped?

Ingelsby: Nowhere.  I want a genuine reaction from Kate.

 

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I think John told Lori that Billy killed Erin and fathered her baby knowing she would tell Mare. He included the “Don’t tell Mare” instruction because he wanted it to seem like he wanted to cover up his brother’s secret. But he knew she wouldn’t be able to hide it from Mare. That way, when he kills Billy and makes it seem like a suicide, Mare will just assume he did it out of guilt for killing Erin. There was no other reason to tell Lori other than to ensure it got back to Mare. 

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Maybe John doesn't plan on making Billy's death as suicide, rather as self defense.

"Billy had the gun, wanted to kill me, we wrestled, it went off"

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19 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:
25/2021 at 2:00 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:
On 5/25/2021 at 1:50 AM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

By the way, love your name but I cannot for the life of me remember where it came from. It was a mantra on a show I saw once. What was it?

George’s father repeats this on “Seinfeld.”

Thanks you for taking care of business in my absence, @hoodooznoodooz  It takes a village. 

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2 hours ago, SerenityNow721 said:

Thanks you for taking care of business in my absence, @hoodooznoodooz  It takes a village. 

We three enjoy Seinfeld and Mare of Easttown: this will forever bond us!

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It looked like the place that Dylan chose to threaten Jess with his gun was the same area that the husband of the crazy lady from episode 1 set up his security cameras to record.  I doubt that he turned them off.  So, there might be a way to send Dylan away.

So Dylan got shot and wounded - but now he's up and literally running around two weeks later?

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I haven't seen anything in the past episodes that makes me believe that John is a master manipulator.  Billy confessing to killing Erin dumbfounds me.  Is John's argument "for family"  convincing enough for him to take the fall?  Doublful, unless Billy is a complete idiot.

i am of the opinion that Dylan is Erin's killer. 

1)  With the Jess chase down in this episode, there is now an established  pattern  that Dylan will threaten someone with a gun.

2)  Dylan has no alibi with the established timeline of Erin's death.

3)  When Dylan threatened Jess, he said “Don’t open your f***** mouth again, or you’re gonna end up with your face blown off just like Erin”

Until recently, the police thought the Erin’s murdur was connected to the Katie’s kidnapping.  Details about how Erin was killed would be kept under wraps because of the pending investigation.  So although the TV viewer knows that Erin was killed with a gunshot to the head, the Easttown public wouldn’t know that information — only the one that shot Erin would.

19 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

So Dylan got shot and wounded - but now he's up and literally running around two weeks later?

I also noted this, too.  Maybe this is confirmation of the healing properties from marijuana.  Or, it could be the steady diet of La Spada's Hoagies, Coco's cheese steaks, and Rolling Rock has miraculous healing properties.

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On 5/24/2021 at 1:32 AM, Laurawithcats said:

And I too would like to know what really has traumatized Ryan to the point where he's as shut down as he is. Did he see his father murder Erin? Or sleep with Erin? 

I'm putting my theory in now.  We saw Ryan whack the heck out of that kid in the lunchroom while trying to protect his sister.  So I think Ryan may have killed Erin by accident in an attempt to protect Erin from whoever was trying to hurt her, and he shot Erin by mistake.  And if the person who was trying to hurt her was John (maybe as the baby's father and she was trying to blackmail him for baby money), then the secret between Ryan and his father is about what Ryan did and what the dad did, sort of a mutual assured destruction pact.

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On 5/24/2021 at 12:26 AM, Emily Thrace said:

That's actually the one thing that bugs me about Billy or John being DJ's father usually a dna profile will reveal traces of incest. It leaves distinctive patterns on the dna. 

On 5/24/2021 at 6:42 PM, Emily Thrace said:

I'm not going digging through the internet to find my ten year old university genetics textbook. Believe me or do your own research its up to you. If you want a bit more specificity Erin would share about 3% of her dna with John and Billy. Usually on a dna profile this will show as shadows or duplications on the X chromosome. Its possible it slight enough in this case it simply missed by the lab. Or they just did a comparison and no other testing.

I'm no scientist, but I'm going to take a stab at what may be behind what Emily Thrace was trying to get at.  The National Center for Biotechnology information states that, "In inbred communities, individuals affected with X-linked diseases are often born to parents who are related."  It doesn't mean that the DNA is detecting incest or that there is a DNA incest marker...it means that the DNA is showing an abnormality that can correlate with incest.  

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On 5/24/2021 at 7:52 AM, pasdetrois said:

On a lighter note, the little kid who plays DJ was just waiting for his chance to dive into the bathtub water during his "drowning" scene. Little trooper.

Is this referring to Drew, not DJ?

On 5/24/2021 at 3:28 PM, Pike Ludwell said:

She should have talked him out of joining the police since it's a dangerous job, and she knew he was that weak.

Really?  It's up to a mother to talk her fully grown son out of pursuing the field he wants to make a career in?

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10 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

We three enjoy Seinfeld and Mare of Easttown: this will forever bond us!

Serenity now, insanity later.

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17 hours ago, grawlix said:

 

i am of the opinion that Dylan is Erin's killer. 

1)  With the Jess chase down in this episode, there is now an established  pattern  that Dylan will threaten someone with a gun.

2)  Dylan has no alibi with the established timeline of Erin's death.

3)  When Dylan threatened Jess, he said “Don’t open your f***** mouth again, or you’re gonna end up with your face blown off just like Erin”

Until recently, the police thought the Erin’s murdur was connected to the Katie’s kidnapping.  Details about how Erin was killed would be kept under wraps because of the pending investigation.  So although the TV viewer knows that Erin was killed with a gunshot to the head, the Easttown public wouldn’t know that information — only the one that shot Erin would.

 

Was Erin killed with a shot to her head?  For some reason, I thought that maybe she had been hit on the head.  She certainly didn't have her "face blown off", so Dylan's statement about that was incorrect.  

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3 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Was Erin killed with a shot to her head?  For some reason, I thought that maybe she had been hit on the head.  She certainly didn't have her "face blown off", so Dylan's statement about that was incorrect.  

In episode 2, Mare seemed to think that it was from a gun shot.   When she talks to the chief at the crime scene, she makes a finger gun gesture to explain the wound to the head.

This is from @SnazzyDaisy's post in the "Fathers" episode thread:

D70D0849-7E71-4783-A265-1AAB61A75CB3.thumb.jpeg.9b654e39f927a1e895f8a3dafada7d86.jpeg.387303209825c4fa8fdd108784439232.jpeg

 

Whether the wound looks like it's from a gun is debatable, but the Easttown police believe it to be.  The show has been coy about confirming cause of death.  You would think that the Medical Examiner scene would confirm the cause, but it doesn't.   So with nothing to refute Mare's initial hypothesis, I am assuming Mare's cause of death is the one the police are still running with.

As for Dylan's threat being incorrect, he is trying to scare Jess.  What sounds more menacing?  Saying I will blow off your face with a gun or I'm going to shoot my gun which will tear off your finger and have the bullet glance off your head, accidentally killing you.

The detail still remains that Dylan knew Erin was shot in the head.

 

 

Edited by grawlix
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Re: The cop gun...

It's been established that Kevin would steal for drug money, could he have gotten a hold of his grandfather's old gun, and either sold or traded it to a dealer? If it was being passed around the lowlifes of Easttown, virtually anyone could have shot Erin with it (assuming she was shot with that gun in particular).

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5 minutes ago, Sienna said:

Re: The cop gun...

It's been established that Kevin would steal for drug money, could he have gotten a hold of his grandfather's old gun, and either sold or traded it to a dealer? If it was being passed around the lowlifes of Easttown, virtually anyone could have shot Erin with it (assuming she was shot with that gun in particular).

There should be hundreds of those guns in Delco - pawn shops, residences - but, if the gun was stored in the attic and nobody has been up there for years, Mare would never know it was gone... 

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On 5/26/2021 at 6:26 PM, grawlix said:

i am of the opinion that Dylan is Erin's killer. 

1)  With the Jess chase down in this episode, there is now an established  pattern  that Dylan will threaten someone with a gun.

2)  Dylan has no alibi with the established timeline of Erin's death.

3)  When Dylan threatened Jess, he said “Don’t open your f***** mouth again, or you’re gonna end up with your face blown off just like Erin”

Until recently, the police thought the Erin’s murdur was connected to the Katie’s kidnapping.  Details about how Erin was killed would be kept under wraps because of the pending investigation.  So although the TV viewer knows that Erin was killed with a gunshot to the head, the Easttown public wouldn’t know that information — only the one that shot Erin would.

I haven't seen any single theory that adequately addresses all of the questions about the who/how/why etc of Erin's murder.

The ballistics expert says that the gun that killed Erin was a Colt Detective Special that was used by those in law enforcement in the '80s. The ballistics expert then tells Mare that “your pop probably had one." As best as I can tell, this was NOT the type of gun that Dylan used to threaten Jess.

So, if we are to believe that Dylan is the murderer, we have to understand how he came to be in possession of THAT type of gun. Is Mare's father's gun still around? If so, how did Dylan get his hands on it?

Also...I will put this behind spoiler bars for those that don't watch previews:

Spoiler

The preview shows a woman hands - probably Mare's - opening a wooden box issued by the Ridley Police. The box contains a gun belonging to Detective Glenn Carroll (Mare's neighbor) and it is likely the same type of gun referenced by the ballistics expert. Since this gun could be the murder weapon, we need to understand how Dylan would know that this gun exists and why he would go to the Carrolls' property to retrieve it. After all, we know that he already owns a gun. Why go to the trouble of stealing another one? And if Glenn's gun was somewhere other than on the Carrolls' property we must ask where and why.

In this story, Glenn's gun may actually be the "smoking gun."

Edited by Ellaria Sand
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I know most think Dylan is invested in destroying Erin's diaries because he did something wrong but I wonder if it might be about DJ. If DJ's biological father is revealed Dylan could lose custody. Maybe that is actually what he is afraid of. He acts ambivalent but he is also moving along with the adoption. I don't think he as detached he claims. He wouldn't have been so angry about the results of the paternity test if he didn't care.

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