S01.E06: Sore Must Be the Storm

[Emily Thrace]

4 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

For everyone asking, first cousins once removed are your parents' cousins or the kids of your cousins (it goes both ways).  Second cousins are the kids of your parents' cousins.  So Erin's first cousins once removed are John and Billy, her second cousins are John's kids.

*In case you can't tell, I come from a very large extended family, with all the cousin types.  

That's actually the one thing that bugs me about Billy or John being DJ's father usually a dna profile will reveal traces of incest. It leaves distinctive patterns on the dna. Unless Erin isn't Kenny's biological daughter. 

[rlc]

It’s going to be a very long week.

[ShadowHunter]

The stuff with Zabel's mom was rough. She reacted as we all assumed she would but that didn't make it any easier to watch. That was rough. 

Still Dear Show..Mare didn't need extra drama with Zabel's death she had enough already lol.  I can't believe again Mare did not wait for backup

Look forward to all this wrapping up next week . I hope they do wrap things up I don't want them to make the mistake Big Little Lies did and return for another round.

Guy Pearce replaced another actor last minute in what obviously was a small role.  Honestly I've almost forgotten about Richard anyway lol.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by ShadowHunter

[FemmyV]

Gotta hand it to the writing team. I think a lot of people assumed the killer would be revealed, definitively, tonight and the bastards still have us guessing!

So here's what: it sure looks like John Ross, something I leaned towards by the end of EP02. But I still hold out a smidgeon of suspicion Lori may be moving more things than we know.

Poor Siobhan knows how Becca feels, tonight. Get used to it kid, if you're going to be a musician, you're going to have this happen again and again, and on more than one occasion, you're going to be the one who sleeps with someone for what it can do for your career.

I love Mare for giving Zabel's mom the opportunity to unload. And for finally allowing Siobhan to unload. And for calling out Helen's fart.

Faye going to stay with her mom: just to go think, or did Frank smack her around?

How many unregistered guns are there in Easttown?

 

[ByaNose]

I like Guy Pierce in the role and I like him with Mare. He’s sort of not being used properly. I don’t think the writer angle is interesting enough or something. I can’t explain it. I like him but his role seems all wrong.

That said, it’s a great show and it was done in my hometown. The studio where they filmed the interiors is less then 5 miles from my house. The down beaten depressing people and drug addict girls isn’t something reflective of our though. I’ve lived here over 50 years so it’s pretty comical to see the depressing backdrop that’s being portrayed. It’s only a tv show so I get it. I never saw Kate Winslet in the area and it’s not that big of a town. I feel gypped. LOL!!!! See everyone next week. 

P.S.: It never occurred to me that they could do a Season 2 so I’m curious if Kate Winslet is up for that or not. Time will tell. I’m just hoping Stranger Things, Virgin River & Outer Banks return soon. I only watch one network show and it’s This Is Us. Remember the old days with just 3 networks and you had to to watch it then or you were screwed? LOL!!!!

[KristenR]

Was there a reason that Billy’s father suddenly blurted out his confession about seeing Billy covered in blood? I feel like maybe I missed something. 

[Pike Ludwell]

I think too many are giving Zabel's mom too much of a break.  She acted like an unhinged nut, and I found it inexcusable. Her son was basically not yet competent as a detective, and that is what caused his death, not Mare. And he was a grown man and the lead officer in the case. Basically the mom is implying he didn't have a mind of his own and was easily manipulated. 

Also, Siobahn's behavior, lashing out at Mare, was to me for flimsy irrational reasons, and inexusable, and shows she, like Zabel's mother, is a person way too eager to hate others. There's been lots of scenes with people flying WAY off the handle, moreso than one would expect. Makes one wonder about the people the writers have contact with. LOL

To the people who have been defending Dylan and saying he's not so bad ... are you satisfied now? The guy has been a total jerk from the beginning.

If John did manipulate Billy into thinking he, Billy, did it ... if Billy was that weak minded, that was a nice bit of misdirection when they showed Billy acting strongly on his convictions, refusing to help John get the mattress up the stairs.

[Laurawithcats]

If John Ross is the killer just wow is he cool as a cucumber for someone who's murdered a teenage girl. Hanging out with friends, laughing, drinking beer, acting as if nothing happened. As if he didn't just murder an innocent teenager while the police, including his wife's best friend, hunt for the killer. Even going to Erin's house to comfort her father Kenny on the murder of his daughter. All the while Billy is falling apart and slowly coming unglued. 

I like the theory John has convinced Billy he's the murderer. And I too would like to know what really has traumatized Ryan to the point where he's as shut down as he is. Did he see his father murder Erin? Or sleep with Erin? 

Not sure if Lori Ross is involved. She's forgiven, moved on from John's cheating before and as she said to Mare, she still loves him. Maybe she has blinders on when it comes to John or maybe she is so in love with him she chooses to move on bc that's easier than facing reality? 

Dylan belongs in jail. I still can't get past him being so indifferent to the mother (or so he believed at the time) of his child getting badly beaten. He almost looked bored. 

Also interesting that John and Billy are fishing at a creek, river and Erin's body was found in a creek, river. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Laurawithcats
Sentence

[MinDC76]

1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

That's actually the one thing that bugs me about Billy or John being DJ's father usually a dna profile will reveal traces of incest. It leaves distinctive patterns on the dna. Unless Erin isn't Kenny's biological daughter. 

What distinctive traces are you referring to?  Please cite legitimate Medical Journal publications / studies confirming your assertions, because your vague statement is simply not true on its face.

[marybennet]

My nerdy self went and read "'Hope' is the thing with feathers," the Emily Dickinson poem the episode's title comes from.  It's here, if anyone else is feeling nerdly:  https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/42889/hope-is-the-thing-with-feathers-314

The line is about the thing that embarrasses hope for hoping, the storm so bad that it makes hope feel bad about itself.  For me, it speaks to the incredible bleakness of this show, at least so far.  It made me realize I'm hanging on to an embarrassing little hope that Siobhan will go off to Berkeley and that Mare will take in Carrie so that she and Mare and Helen can be a happy little dysfunctional family with Drew.

[MBayGal]

3 hours ago, Dancingjaneway said:

Also I .... hate Shioban. She is a bitch. Her mother did nothing wrong

I can understand how Siobhan felt. She was what, 14 or 15 at the time?  When Mare told that story to her shrink, I thought Mare would say that she felt guilty that she had put Siobhan in that situation, inadvertently of course, but it would have devastated Siobhan and Mare should have realized that. But I care nothing about her love life.

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, marybennet said:

My nerdy self went and read "'Hope' is the thing with feathers," the Emily Dickinson poem the episode's title comes from.  It's here, if anyone else is feeling nerdly:

Thank you! The title has been bugging me because I had no clue what it was taken from. 

[Dessert]

Mare’s therapist asked why she’s still living in that house. Good question! I see Mare of Easttown, Season 2 as a haunted house miniseries. 

I now accept that Guy Pearce just likes working with Kate Winslet and was willing to play a small part as her relatively sane love interest. Who can blame him? I hope Mare jumps in Richard’s car and they escape for parts unknown - never to be heard from again until Richard’s new true crime book makes them millions. 

[Sienna]

55 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

I can understand how Siobhan felt. She was what, 14 or 15 at the time?  When Mare told that story to her shrink, I thought Mare would say that she felt guilty that she had put Siobhan in that situation, inadvertently of course, but it would have devastated Siobhan and Mare should have realized that.

Yeah, I mean think about it, we've already seen a flashback illustrating how he got angry and physically violent when desperate for drug money.

Mare gets a call from a neighbor informing her that Kevin is at the house; she assumes he's there to steal something, yet somehow thinks it's a good idea to send her young teenage daughter over to check on the situation? I get that Mare was carrying heavy load, she's only human, we all make bad calls, etc., but that wasn't exactly a mother of the year moment.

That said, I don't think Siobhan's outburst was so much because of what happened the day Kevin died, it's just the fact that they've never properly grieved him. I actually really liked the bookends of Mare finally breaking down and being comforted by Helen, and Siobhan by Mare.

Zabel's mom can fuck right off, though.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Frank and Mare’s decision to send Drew to swimming classes is the best decision ever!

I thought Siobhan blames Mare for Kevin’s death but apparently she’s mad at her mom for making her uncovered him. And Mare never realised the emotional burden that Siobhan has been carrying since and the damage caused by her split-second decision. Both are overwhelmed in their own griefs.

Re Dylan, I think his male friend and him could be involved in some illegal dealings, just look at the cars those two drive. This is the secret that they’re trying to hide & could be documented in Erin’s journals.

I couldn’t believe that Mare doesn’t show photo of John and Billy to the jewellery shop owner for confirmation. Sloppy work Mare!

Am not entirely convinced that Billy is DJ’s father. John could be the father as well. Erin could be sexually abused by both John and Billy, at different times. Billy may not know about this until that fateful night when Erin threatened to expose both. 

Billy knows John has a habit of lying and living a double life. His remarks to John “Nothing’s the matter with me. You made a mess of your life because you couldn’t keep your dxxk in your fucking pants. Now you clean it up”. What if this isn’t about Sandra (the mistress) but it’s about Erin? Billy’s resentment towards John can be seen throughout this episode and in the earlier episode when John hugs him in Kenny’s house.

These are some shady moments for John Ross: 

(1) His face expression when driving to the fishing cabin, he looks like a man on a mission, planning Billy’s accidental drowning in their “last fishing trip”? 

(2) John coaches and forces Billy to say out loud that he killed Erin. Why? This is manipulation 101. 

(3) John never force Billy to admit that he raped and impregnated Erin. Why? These are quite significant to be simply left out, right?

(4) Whatever Lori knows about what happened to Erin is based on what John tells her. John tells Lori about Billy’s bloody clothes, Billy is DJ’s father and Billy killed Erin. This is another manipulation 101 by a narcissist - controlling the narrative. It is weird that John seems to be speaking on behalf of his brother throughout this episode.

There are 2 other things that puzzle me. 

First, Ryan’s expression when his parents were telling Mare about adopting DJ. What if Ryan knows about John & Erin. This could be the secret that Ryan and John were discussing during the blackout.

Secondly, Lori tells Mare she could tell that John were having an affair the first time round but she doesn’t have a clue this time. Also, when asked by his father, John says “Lori thinks am having an affair”. Whatever happened between John and Erin, could it be a one time thing?

Edited May 24, 2021 by SnazzyDaisy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Re: the gun in the tackle box - in one of the very early episodes (I think it was episode 2), John was shown with the tackle box in his truck and it already had the gun inside. I'm not saying that exonerates him from the theory that he's going to kill Billy while they're up at the cabin, just that the smoking gun has been there all along.

My guess is that John is the one who was sleeping with Erin but that a very drunk Billy was there the night that John killed Erin. I'm still trying to figure out the timeline because I thought the coroner said that Erin was killed between midnight and 2am. John said that he took Frank home around 2:30am (after he sang Uptown Girl but before he took a leak in the closet). Did John leave the bar with Billy, kill Erin, then go back to the bar and take Frank home?

I always used to get the second/third cousins versus cousins once/twice removed mixed up, but "removed" indicates a generational gap, so once removed means the other person is either your parents' generation or your kids' generation. Twice removed means the other person is your grandparents' generation or your grandchildren's generation. Hope that helps anyone who has a hard time figuring out all the cousin stuff!

Even though I knew Zabel's mom was going to blame Mare for Colin's death, it was still harsh to watch. The truth is that he was investigating this case. He should have been doing the legwork on all of those blue vans regardless of Mare's involvement in getting that information. Once he noticed the cigarettes, he should have been on guard, especially when a suspect leaves the room while being questioned. If he'd been quicker pulling his gun out, he wouldn't have been shot.

Poor Bethy. I can understand her being relieved though.

Dylan is a psycho. At least his friend told him to stop when he was threatening Jess with a gun. Thank goodness DJ isn't his kid because I wouldn't want someone like that raising a baby.

5 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Did Carrie end up taking drugs and that's why she nodded off or was she just that tired?

She was exhausted because she has been working a lot. She said, "I slept three hours last night. I'm [at work] 'til 2AM here, and then I'm back cleaning offices at 6AM."

I'm glad Mare is voluntarily continuing to go to therapy even though it's no longer required by the police department. She realizes and accepts that she needs help and she isn't quite where she needs to be. I totally understand Siobhan's anger now. I can't imagine how traumatizing it was for her to find her brother's body.

[raven]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The truth is that he was investigating this case. He should have been doing the legwork on all of those blue vans regardless of Mare's involvement in getting that information. Once he noticed the cigarettes, he should have been on guard, especially when a suspect leaves the room while being questioned. If he'd been quicker pulling his gun out, he wouldn't have been shot.

Exactly.   I could understand the mom being angry that Mare survived and Colin didn't, but Colin's death was not Mare's fault. 

Siobhan's anger I totally understand.  I can't even imagine the trauma of finding your brother that way.  She has to blame someone and Mare would be the natural target, coupled with the fact that no real grieving seems to have taken place, they all have to hold it together for Drew, etc.  Speaking of which, the show would have been irredeemable for me if they killed Drew.  Swimming lessons!

I have to give Dylan (that shit) the brains to say the word "lawyer" when being questioned by police.  Brianna did too when she was first questioned about the video.   So assholes do know their rights.

Good work, Jess, coming forward despite (or maybe because of?) being threatened and terrorized. 

I don't know anything about guns but the one in the tackle box looked more like and older one that a retired policeman might use than the one that Dylan had.   I still want Dylan to be the killer because I would appreciate a simpler explanation rather than something convoluted (hello Broadchurch). 

Red Herring Priest dropped Erin off after she received a call or text (can't remember which) that made her "hysterical".  What would have that effect on her?  DJ getting taken away; the prostitution exposed?  I don't believe she only took a few pictures and didn't have any clients.  Either Jess lied to cover for her or legitimately didn't know.   Where the hell are the cell phone records?  Come on, show.

It's true that drug abuse has been a theme so Dylan could be involved in that.  We haven't seen any evidence of Jess being involved in or using drugs that I recall. 

Billy at least believes he is DJ's father and that he killed Erin.  He was present after she died and handled her bloody clothes.   I don't think he killed her, I think he was too drunk to remember.   I'm on the fence as to whether he is the father or John.

Sigh.  I would not like this because she's been a friend to Mare, but now I'm looking at Lori.   Did Erin threaten to expose John as the father of the baby, maybe Lori threatened her with the gun and accidentally shot her finger off.  The wound on Erin's head was not a gunshot wound, was it?  Then maybe Erin fell, hit her head and died.  I don't remember now what the autopsy report was.

I'm leaning towards Lori now because WHY on earth would John, currently separated from his wife, tell her about Billy's confession and ask her to promise not to tell Mare?  There is no reason for that unless we are only seeing a snippet of a longer conversation or Lori agreed (again, why?  she's been presented as a decent person) to cover for herself.

I can understand Mare not waiting for backup.  I can see her thinking that someone's life may be in danger and she knows both men well.  Not saying it's the smartest thing to do but I understand it.

So the show ends with Siobhan off to college, Carrie moving in with Mare and Mare calling Richard to ask him out on a date?

[Cristofle]

I agree with everyone saying John is actually more suspicious than Billy to me right now. The charm is a grooming technique. The way he was talking to his son last week was a grooming technique. It speaks more to a skilled predator and Billy just doesn't strike me that way. But with the blood, it seems he was involved somehow. And Lori also seems off somehow. She was pretty good at lying to Mare about Billy's whereabouts until she found herself up against a wall, and then she changed tracks. Looking at all the beer bottles around when Billy confessed, and that he had beer when he first came home earlier in the episode, I wonder if his thing is that he gets blackout drunk, and his brother uses that to make him think things are happening that John is actually responsible for. 

Everything that went down with the way Mare's son died is just...sad. It's not Mare's fault Siobhan found him, and the description of that day struck me as very realistic, having lost a friend to addiction. No matter how prepared you think you are, no matter how many times you've braced yourself for that call, sometimes when it actually happens, it was when you just didn't expect it. It was when you thought something else was going on (Mare thinking he might have been stealing, rather than going home to die by suicide). It's also not entirely surprising that Siobhan has displaced her shock and grief onto her mother - hindsight is always 20/20. 

It's also not surprising that Zabel's mother is displacing her grief onto Mare, but it sucks for her that it happened twice in one episode, because I also agree that Zabel's death is not Mare's fault. Zabel was the lead detective at that time. Mare can feel like she was the more experienced one, which is true because she clearly knew to draw her weapon first but did not happen to have one. But Zabel was still in charge, and his mistakes are his own. I liked the moment when she broke down with her mother, because there really is only so much one person can take.

Can Dylan be thrown in jail for...being awful? I mean, actually he should be thrown in jail for putting a gun in Erin's friend's face, but he is just unbearable. 

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Can Dylan be thrown in jail for...being awful?

Kenny should get extra years in jail for FAILING to kill Dylan

[pasdetrois]

Quote

Billy has looked weak and frightened thru out this show but there was never any true character development.

I wonder if Billy has learning disabilities or another developmental disorder. There have been instances in real life where folks like this are manipulated into confessing crimes - in my own family I know how suggestible they are . The show has stopped short of specification, but Billy has been shown to be timid and anxious. He may have been dominated by John and others his entire life. Perhaps he fathered DJ, was drinking heavily and blacked out when Erin was killed, and believes he killed her and moved the body, or knows John killed her.

I'm bored with Siobhan's story, which took away from other more interesting plots and characters.

On a lighter note, the little kid who plays DJ was just waiting for his chance to dive into the bathtub water during his "drowning" scene. Little trooper.

Edited May 24, 2021 by pasdetrois

[Ellaria]

6 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I agree with everyone saying John is actually more suspicious than Billy to me right now. The charm is a grooming technique. The way he was talking to his son last week was a grooming technique. It speaks more to a skilled predator and Billy just doesn't strike me that way. But with the blood, it seems he was involved somehow. And Lori also seems off somehow. She was pretty good at lying to Mare about Billy's whereabouts until she found herself up against a wall, and then she changed tracks. Looking at all the beer bottles around when Billy confessed, and that he had beer when he first came home earlier in the episode, I wonder if his thing is that he gets blackout drunk, and his brother uses that to make him think things are happening that John is actually responsible for. 

John is a master manipulator. We saw him do it to Ryan by telling him to keep their secret. He has likely manipulated Billy for years and is doing it again. John is playing on Billy's weaknesses and letting him take the fall for Erin's murder. 

I'm a little unclear on the "gun in the tackle box" scenario. My guess is that John put it there with the intent to kill Billy. However, Billy found it and knows what John has planned.

I don't believe that Lori is involved. She is trying to make sense of what is happening around her and, instinctively, tries to protect her family.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I'm a little unclear on the "gun in the tackle box" scenario. My guess is that John put it there with the intent to kill Billy. However, Billy found it and knows what John has planned.

John didn't put the gun in the tackle box specifically for the fishing trip. It was shown to be in there earlier in the season.

[paigow]

The gun in the tackle box is not the murdur durdur weapon either. The photo must be of the killer holding the old cop revolver.

[hoodooznoodooz]

The woman ghosting Siobhan, geez, just text Siobhan that it’s over. It’s easy. Even for a coward.

[chick binewski]

 

8 hours ago, Dancingjaneway said:

So here's the thing, unless their is hanky panky going on in that picture I don't see how it points to her murderer. 

 

1 hour ago, raven said:

I'm leaning towards Lori now because WHY on earth would John, currently separated from his wife, tell her about Billy's confession and ask her to promise not to tell Mare?  There is no reason for that unless we are only seeing a snippet of a longer conversation or Lori agreed (again, why?  she's been presented as a decent person) to cover for herself.

Yeah, I can't imagine what picture could without question reveal the killer. Also, I know we're assuming it's a photograph but isn't it just as (or more) likely to be some kind of note or document?

I do think there was a longer the conversation between Lori & John and Lori is gonna turn out to be much more involved. 

Jess is the one character that leaves me scratching my head. Close friend to Erin but involved in something with Dylan. Reveals that Dylan isn't DJ's father (plz change that baby's name btw) but misdirects to Frank (who is probably totally guilty of something bc he hangs with John), then helps burn the journals. I really don't know how they're going to tie up her actions with something that's relevant to the larger story.

[Cristofle]

40 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I don't believe that Lori is involved. She is trying to make sense of what is happening around her and, instinctively, tries to protect her family.

I hope that's true and it's just my overly suspicious TV crime brain at work. I was baffled at her immediately agreeing to cover for Billy (although yes, she ended up cracking in under two minutes when Mare actually asked her what was going on) but this is apparently the same woman who took her husband back after the first time he manipulated their son into trying to cover for an affair (given that last week it was heavily implied it was not the first time their son had caught his father doing something with another woman), so maybe that's just how she responds to such things - immediately goes into clean-up mode.

I wonder what will happen to Erin's son. Will he stay with Dylan's parents? Dylan is likely still the legal father since I'm guessing his name is on DJ's birth certificate even though he isn't the biological father. But SHOULD he stay with Dylan's parents if Dylan will be anywhere in the vicinity? 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Did Mare really think that Zabel’s mother would be in a receptive mood so soon after his death? 

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I wonder what will happen to Erin's son.

Dawn / Katie will adopt him. Dawn can use the money from the gas station for the surgery. Bethy can babysit.

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did Mare really think that Zabel’s mother would be in a receptive mood so soon after his death? 

Mare was doing it for herself. She is on the apology tour.

[Cristofle]

2 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did Mare really think that Zabel’s mother would be in a receptive mood so soon after his death? 

I don't think Mare was really thinking about whether she'd be receptive (although I don't know she was expecting to get slapped). I think Mare feels responsible for his death (even though I don't think she actually is - Zabel was a grown man and a detective responsible for himself, but I think part of Mare viewed him as a bit of a baby duck whereas she was the more experienced cop supposed to guide him). I think she just wanted to apologize and express her sympathy and remorse to his mother because she felt overwhelmed by that weight, more than she expected to be absolved by a receptive audience. 

[cardigirl]

9 hours ago, blixie said:

It was John's tackle box, Billy was clearly surprised to see a gun in there, and for sure knows John is trying to kill him/pin it all on him. I would not be surprised if Pat used to be a cop, and it's his gun. Billy also made a comment about how John is never held accountable for anything so I'd guess he's been running grooming/manipulating if not outright abusing Billy all his life. 
 

I don't know about that. I thought we had seen Billy with that gun and tackle box before. I know we have seen Billy with A gun and a tackle box before, if not this particular one, so I just thought that perhaps Billy was bringing along some protection. 

[pasdetrois]

It would be normal for any police, including Mare, to reach out to a deceased cop's family. The script is asking viewers to weigh if Mare failed Zabel, or if he should have known better. The script even muddies the waters by having Zabel confess that he is not as skilled as he has claimed.

[Cheyanne11]

9 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Not sure why Billy confessed

Because his brother manipulated him--probably something he's done his whole life.  I wouldn't be surprised if Billy had taken the fall for any number of things John had done during their childhood.  I think John's a sociopath.

Also, didn't John show Mare a polaroid of Frank from the engagement party night--and now Jess showed the police a polaroid Erin had?  Doesn't seem like a coincidence.

I don't think Lori's involved and I think Ryan let Mare believe what he was so angst about was his dad having another affair (he didn't actually say that to his mom, just nodded his head when she assumed that's what the issue was) because whatever he knows is so much worse.

[BC4ME]

Ryan acted really strange when he was watching the news about the girls with his parents. I don't think he assumes his dad was having an affair. I think he knows something else. Lori telling Mare this time she didn't see the signs John was having an affair also indicates that's not "the secret" Ryan knows. I don't think Lori is involved but I could be wrong.

I think the Dylan stuff is either he is involved in drugs or prostitution or both. And as a long shot may tie the other two girls' abduction to him. And as an extension to Erin somehow. The other two girls' disappearance may not be a separate crime after all.

I love how Mare and her mom, despite the bickering, really do love each other. That's just the way they are. It was realistic.

It was completely predicable to me how Colin's mom would react. They showed her as believing her son was perfect and could do no wrong. His mom also knew how influenced Colin was by Mare. Whatever he should have done, he was overly influenced by what Mare wanted. Both of the situations seem realistic to me. Mare knew this and took the power. It kinda was her fault IMO.

Unless they were just trying to show more examples of how drugs were ruining people's lives in that town, I don't understand the point of the Beth/Freddie story line so far. Mare didn't really need to find the clothing there. It could've been anywhere that she found the reunion shirt and dates.

[cardigirl]

The scene with Siobhan and Mare over the discovery of Kevin in the attic was really hard to watch. When a child returns home to commit suicide it can be an act full of rage directed at family and, while he had no way of knowing it would be his sister who would find him first, the damage was done. Suicide is a very complicated act, and when drug addiction is involved, even more so. He chose the home where he grew up to take his life as a final message to his family. And that is what they all cannot get past. 

[HollyG]

21 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

Ryan acted really strange when he was watching the news about the girls with his parents. I don't think he assumes his dad was having an affair. I think he knows something else. Lori telling Mare this time she didn't see the signs John was having an affair also indicates that's not "the secret" Ryan knows. I don't think Lori is involved but I could be wrong.

I think the Dylan stuff is either he is involved in drugs or prostitution or both. And as a long shot may tie the other two girls' abduction to him. And as an extension to Erin somehow. The other two girls' disappearance may not be a separate crime after all.

I definitely think both Billy & John are involved in Erin's death and one of them is the baby's father. But I'm not sure at this point which one did what. Also Billy wouldn't help John with the mattress and told him his life was a mess because he couldn't keep his dick in his pants. He told John to clean up his own mess. Was Billy talking about the affair or Erin's baby and death? 

I agree. Dylan is a drug dealer and probably behind the girls prostituting themselves. That's why he took Erin's diaries.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by HollyG

[EtheltoTillie]

I’m so afraid Mare’s phone will ring and Billy and John will hear. 
Once again she is going in without backup but it seems it’s another decision based on “exigent  circumstances,” someone has to prevent a wrong act.  

[Enigma X]

From introduction of John and Lori, I felt as if John was creepy and Lori was in denial. Even after the reveal of the affair, I felt as if Lori was in denial of something darker. Now, I am not saying she knew or now knows that he killed Erin, but I think she suspects he had an improper relationship with Erin.

As I type this, I wonder if Lori could have killed Erin? Maybe she happened upon a hurt Erin and Erin spilled the beans about John being DJ's father and she lost it. 

[ShadowHunter]

Dylan sucks. I think I have said that every week now lol. Why must I continue to see this piece of crap?

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

If John did manipulate Billy into thinking he, Billy, did it ... if Billy was that weak minded,

 

[Cheyanne11]

56 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

Ryan acted really strange when he was watching the news about the girls with his parents. I don't think he assumes his dad was having an affair.

Not sure if this is directed at what I said (it was right after I posted), but I'm not saying *Ryan* assumes the dad had an affair, I'm saying that he let the Mom go with her assumption that that's what it is because what he, Ryan, knows is so much worse.

Another reason I don't think Lori is involved is the show seems to be playing with how all the members of that winning Lady Hawks team have had a shitty life: Mare with her kid committing suicide, Dawn with Katie getting kidnapped, Bethie with her drug-addict brother--Lori has seemed like the one who had a pretty stable life, but that's an illusion.

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

 

Another reason I don't think Lori is involved is the show seems to be playing with how all the members of that winning Lady Hawks team have had a shitty life:

Except for the one that moved away!!!!

[econ07]

10 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

For everyone asking, first cousins once removed are your parents' cousins or the kids of your cousins (it goes both ways).  Second cousins are the kids of your parents' cousins.  So Erin's first cousins once removed are John and Billy, her second cousins are John's kids.

*In case you can't tell, I come from a very large extended family, with all the cousin types.  

Thanks.  Basically, Erin has great-grandparents who are John and Billy's grandparents

[Cheyanne11]

2 minutes ago, paigow said:

Except for the one that moved away!!!!

The town is cursed!!!

[BingeyKohan]

I mean this as a high compliment but I actually care fairly little about who killed Erin and still care a lot for the show itself. I think they could make more of it and I wouldn't roll my eyes like I did with Big Little Lies (rhyme unintentional).

 

 

[meira.hand]

10 hours ago, Dessert said:

As much as I loved Zabel, it was his job to question the owners of those vans. He was the officer in charge of the investigation, not Mare. He’s the one who called in and got a list of vans matching the partial license plate, because that was his job. Mare was on leave and had no authority. He could have and should have requested that another officer accompany him. He should have called for backup. HIs death was heartbreaking, but not Mare’s fault.

The point here is that Mare is more experienced and clearly could push Zabel to do as she wished. She knew she had no gun and could not provide backup for Zabel. His mother knew the true balance of power in this relationship and so was really justified in blaming Mare for being reckless. The fact that mare yet again ignored the command to wait for backup only proves it again. 

[preeya]

10 hours ago, GussieK said:

Who is Sandra?

Lori said to Mare "John's sleeping with Sandra again"

[BingeyKohan]

Were Mare and Beth both vaping in Freddie's house or did they still not turn his heat back on?? (It's hard to tell what season it's supposed to be - Mare wears that giant neck cowl indoors and I feel like she must get so hot!)

[Pike Ludwell]

4 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Dylan sucks. I think I have said that every week now lol. Why must I continue to see this piece of crap?

Yeah. I thought it great that they disposed of him in the second episode.  And I gave great credit to the writers. But then they unfortunately brought him back through a sort of miracle recovery.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Pike Ludwell

[Cheyanne11]

3 hours ago, raven said:

I'm leaning towards Lori now because WHY on earth would John, currently separated from his wife, tell her about Billy's confession and ask her to promise not to tell Mare?

Because he doesn't trust that Billy wouldn't crack under an interrogation from Mare and tell the truth about John's involvement.  So the plan is to kill Billy at the lake and either make it seem like self-defense or a suicide (probably the latter).

And the reason he told Lori is so he has a witness to the confession (even though she didn't actually hear it).  So after all is said and done, Lori can back up his claim about Billy being the killer.

Also, DJ was born in November 2018--18 months after the reunion weekend.  It's possible both brothers slept with her; Billy at the reunion and, later, John, who impregnated her.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Cheyanne11