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S01.E06: True

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57 minutes ago, Hawk said:

 

Claudia Black and all my Farscape dreams come true.

 

 Seriously. Claudia's character here reminded me of Aeryn Sun....had she remained in the Peacekeepers for another 50 cycles and become bitter, burned out and essentially without hope...instead of being taken in by the crew of Moya.

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16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So it turns out that the series has a lot in common with the 4400 if people remember that show: to try to save Future Earth, a group seeds people from the past with various and sundry powers but no further guidance. Meanwhile a faction opposing their work is also apparently at work in the past. The main differences being that the 4400 were physically taken from various parts of the 20th century to the future, experimented on, and returned to the 2000s Seattle as opposed to Zephyr's traveling psychically from the future to Victorian England..

So, who do people think is the other future person? I'm guessing the bad guy from the future has somehow managed to travel to the past as well. I could see him as pretty much any non-Touched person: Massen, Swann, the doctor, even Lavinia. 

It's probably is Mason. Under the guise of trying to maintain the status quo his is really trying to undermine and eventually subjugated, or eliminate, the Touched in order to preserve the timeline as much as possible. Similar to how agent Baldwin became one of The Marked on the 4400. 

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Never seen the actress who plays Stripe in Chapter 1 before.

Grannie is a badass soldier?  But it sounded like there was genetic enhancements or drug enhancements to make them better killing machines.

The way they featured her in Inside the Episode, it sounds like they may have more flashbacks involving Stripe, though with Wheadon gone, maybe not.

 

When you watch the Inside the Episodes, it's striking that some of the cast and the key people behind the scenes, like Espenson and the production and costume designers are older women -- good to see when otherwise the TV/movie world is often accused of ageism.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

 Doctor Loboticus, 

Ha ha, thanks for that.  Perfect

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OMG, the radiant Aeryn Sun (a.k.a. Claudia Black) is IN DA HOUSE!!!  Can I get a”Hell Yeah!” from the Farscape fans?

I am ridiculously amused by the fact that Stripe (played by 5’8” Claudia Black) is frustrated to find her “self” ensconced in the body of Amalia True (played by the 5’4” Laura Donnelly.) 

That’s all I have for now.  I’ve only watched once and this is clearly an episode that has to be watched two or three times.  But color me frustrated that the season is over.  I’m glad that we got a BIT of an explanation for the mention of a “Galanthi” in the prior episode but seriously, that was a fairly mean-spirited way to end the season. 

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Well. That sure was something. Kind of felt like they turned on the information fire hose and aimed it straight at us. 

Pluses were the origin stories of both Amalia and (to a lesser extent) Maladie, Laura Donnelly's acting chops, and a deliciously tousled Augie giving Amalia the nod after the Drill Team reunited. I'll have some more of that, please! 

Minuses were the aforementioned fire hose style of story-telling, my all new list of questions (#1 being who was the woman in the Galanthi cave who touched the elevator and made it rise? - or did I imagine that?), and the really awkward "just so you know, we're in the far distant future" dialogue, as mentioned by many of you already. 

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21 hours ago, aghst said:

 Hmm, Wheadon always has high stakes doesn't he?  The end of the universe was hinted at in both Buffy and Angel, more than once in each series.

The comment below could be considered a spoiler about another Joss Whedon show so I'll put it behind spoiler bars:  

Spoiler

The end of the universe (or rather an attempt to prevent the end of universe) is also a key plot point in "The Cabin in the Woods"

 

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23 minutes ago, freebie said:

(#1 being who was the woman in the Galanthi cave who touched the elevator and made it rise? - or did I imagine that?)

That one I do know, that was the lady from the Department Store that could make things float. The Doctor did brain surgery on her to remove her powers, but her powers returned while she was hauling dirt away from the underground Galanthi. You can see her levitating a bucket in a previous episode.

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-- Never Mind --   Question was already answered.

Edited by grawlix
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So my Lavinia theory seems to be out the door. I didn't remember seeing her during the sporing. So do we believe it has to be someone who died during the sporing? Do we think a consciousness might be 'sharing' with someone else? Maybe it's someone we haven't met yet.

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11 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

OMG, the radiant Aeryn Sun (a.k.a. Claudia Black) is IN DA HOUSE!!!  Can I get a”Hell Yeah!” from the Farscape fans?

 

 

Hell YEAH!!!!

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1 hour ago, marcee said:

So my Lavinia theory seems to be out the door. I didn't remember seeing her during the sporing. So do we believe it has to be someone who died during the sporing? Do we think a consciousness might be 'sharing' with someone else? Maybe it's someone we haven't met yet.

Maybe it’s Massen’s daughter who we haven’t seen yet because she’s supposedly dead? Could be she’s locked up somewhere on his estate for thinking she’s a middle aged American southern man from the future.

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1 hour ago, marcee said:

So my Lavinia theory seems to be out the door. I didn't remember seeing her during the sporing. So do we believe it has to be someone who died during the sporing? Do we think a consciousness might be 'sharing' with someone else? Maybe it's someone we haven't met yet.

I plan to go and rewatch the entire season thus far because there are so many details and some things may make sense now that we know what we know, and some may make less. 

But my memory is that we saw Lavinia with Augie when he was touched. 

The writers could do anything from having real!Amalia still be alive but submerged to Zephyr/Stripe. to the Galanthi being considerate enough to use a body without a consciousness but whoever else went to the past either not having that level of control or not having any qualms about subduing someone.

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On 5/16/2021 at 10:06 PM, CouchTater said:

This has been a wild series for me, so far.  As I've mentioned before, I loved ep 1, then lost interest but felt obligated to see it through (2-4), then ep 5 brought me back.  And episode 6 was...wow!!!!  Very good, I think?  There was enough explanation to keep me hooked, but I do not understand the Galanthi's method at all.  Were the Victorian touched a mistake?  True/Stripe/Zephyr mentioned that spontaneous powers don't normally happen.  Also, had the Galanthi been scouting Victorian London before Zephyr was transported there (the Victorian artifacts Zephyr and the other woman found in the lab)?  And so many more questions.......

Also, if this had been episode 1 instead of #6 I may have enjoyed all 6 episodes even more.  

I look forward to everyone's thoughts on the episode.

Does anyone know when the 2nd half of the season will air?

I swear since Q Tarantino started doing that backward storytelling shit -- everyone in Hollywood/movies started doing it. Personally I like a linear story -- but I am not in control!

Anyway- I watched twice cuz the first time I am always a bit confused. The creators of Sci-Fi have a concept/idea and sometimes it takes me a minute to figure out their vision.

So True was Stripe. I loved her! Without taking anything from the actress who plays Amalia -- dayam! I wish (kinda) that she was the lead actress. 

Also-- I still don't have an inkling what the Galanthi is/are. They seemed as mysterious in the future as they are in the past. Are they good? bad? Indifferent? What the hell are they?????? and WHY? 

Oh! and others "hitched" a ride when Stripe/True/Zephyr got flung back to Victorian London. Crazy! and compelling cuz I want to know more!

It makes sense now when Lord Massen said -- referring to Mrs. True -- "She isn't a fucking baker!" No- Molly isn't a fucking baker any more! Ha!

Another quick thought-- Sarah aka Maladie seemed almost gentle/normal when Amalia first met her in the nuthouse. And then she (Amalia) threw her under the proverbial bus when she let that psycho Doc have at her. So he must be the reason Maladie is they way she is? He must have done experiments on her. Or some other heinous things.  Hm? Interesting. I want to know more.

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I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes in terms of this show and it is Not a comfortable feeling. I’ve hated it from the beginning and this episode combined with the truncated season and the turns on a dime in terms of storytelling and viewer expectations is just rude. And I was excited for this show, even after the continuing revelations about Whedon’s behavior. I never thought Whedon was a feminist, even though I like his work. C’mon, anyone who feels they need to make a show to tell us that brainwashing people and forcing them into prostitution might be wrong from an ethical standpoint clearly hasn’t advanced very far in terms of worldview. Whedon always excelled at great characters and worlds and those are all missing from The Nevers. All of HBO’s horses and all of their men in the form of acting, direction, costumes and sets can’t hide the fact that Whedon has devolved as an artist and that The Nevers is all hat and no cattle and completely lacks heart and coherence. 
We didn’t even get a full season, unforgivable on a premium network and the new show runner, no matter how talented is stuck with not only tired Whedon tropes, but a show that lacks sincerity on any level. I believe that the time travel “twist” is the new director’s attempt to fight her way out of the mess that was left to her and I don’t think it can be done. The fantastical doesn’t have to be real but it does have to be true at heart. This is why so many loved the rest of the Whedon television oeuvre, not because all of it stood up to rigorous moral analysis, but because the characters touched our hearts and the worlds suspended our disbelief so that we could enter. 
The Nevers felt like an assortment of fan fiction writing prompts from the beginning. An epic fail on any number of levels and I feel bad for the people who worked hard on such terrible material. Even HBO’s production values can only do so much to disguise the smell of the latrine. YMMV, but reading the confused posts over six episodes, I don’t think so. Everyone’s intuition is reacting to the cynical lack of heart and collection of stereotypes and stock characters while their eyes are fooled by the pretty of the production. 

Edited by AuntieMame
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24 minutes ago, taanja said:

It makes sense now when Lord Massen said -- referring to Mrs. True -- "She isn't a fucking baker!" No- Molly isn't a fucking baker any more! Ha!

Yesss!!!  That comment seemed so random.  The fact that True as a baker didn't come up until episode 6 makes me think there was some rearranging (scrambling) of the storyline.  It seems sloppy to me.

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38 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I plan to go and rewatch the entire season thus far because there are so many details and some things may make sense now that we know what we know, and some may make less. 

But my memory is that we saw Lavinia with Augie when he was touched. 

The writers could do anything from having real!Amalia still be alive but submerged to Zephyr/Stripe. to the Galanthi being considerate enough to use a body without a consciousness but whoever else went to the past either not having that level of control or not having any qualms about subduing someone.

That's right.  They were in the park together.  He passed out from the sporing, she didn't receive any spores from what I can tell.  

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33 minutes ago, taanja said:

So True was Stripe. I loved her! Without taking anything from the actress who plays Amalia -- dayam! I wish (kinda) that she was the lead actress. 

---> Farscape

35 minutes ago, taanja said:

Another quick thought-- Sarah aka Maladie seemed almost gentle/normal when Amalia first met her in the nuthouse. And then she (Amalia) threw her under the proverbial bus when she let that psycho Doc have at her. So he must be the reason Maladie is they way she is? He must have done experiments on her. Or some other heinous things.  Hm? Interesting. I want to know more.

Sarah was on her way to a mental hospital when she was touched. So there was something 'wrong' with her even before the arrival of the Galanthi. But she was certainly not the unhinged lunatic of in-show present. It was mentioned that the majority of her victims where psychiatrists so the implication was that she had been traumatized by some sort of weird treatment. Since we know by now that she met Doctor Loboticus (thanks @AnimeMania) it's safe to say her 'treatment' was closer to being experimented on ruthlessly. 

One thing I noticed in this episode was that the mental hospital was full of Catholic imagery despite not being run by an order. I wonder if there's more meaning to it or if it's a simple application of what tv tropes calls Creepy Catholicism for set decoration.

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51 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

One thing I noticed in this episode was that the mental hospital was full of Catholic imagery despite not being run by an order. I wonder if there's more meaning to it or if it's a simple application of what tv tropes calls Creepy Catholicism for set decoration

England was/is largely not Catholic, so it could be run by a church, just not a Catholic church.

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On 5/17/2021 at 1:16 PM, marcee said:

I quite enjoyed this episode.

For what it's worth, here's what I picked up: Pheen = Morphine. Stripe, Boots, Crescent, Knitter - those were all names for their military positions: Boots - being boots on the ground/infantry type, Stripe - appeared to be combat/assassin, Knitter - knits things together; she was their medic, Crescent - appeared to be their leader.

 

For me it wasn't so much that I couldn't figure out what the future-speak meant...it was that it was all vomited on me in the first few minutes of the episode. An episode that was already jarring to the viewer because of the dramatic setting shift for the first third.  I suppose if the idea was to make the audience feel confused and out of place they succeeded (and it may very well have been intentional).  But I'm not sure if these forums are anything to go by, I don't think they did it in a way that's liable to draw the audience in further to the story.

I really do like it when sci-fi and fantasy shows use very specific language to highlight how their societies are different.  One of the most subtle and well handled ways I thought was on Fringe when they were in the alternate reality.  It was subtle things like referring to a twenty dollar bill differently (I can't remember exactly how they referred to them but MLK was on it) or calling IDs "show me's" (as in show me your ID). Even Firefly (another Whedon show) had their characters speak in very specific ways that even went so far as to sprinkle in random Chinese.  But it never overwhelmed the viewer with it.

I can see how they got to most of the slang and jargon in this episode, but it wasn't super helpful to have it dumped on us in the opening.

20 hours ago, Dminches said:

When Amalia was talking to Penance and said "I hope that wasn't too much to take in" was that after the Galanthi mission and Maladie hanging?

Also, who was the person who said to Amalia while she was falling backwards in front of Galanthi that she would have to forget "that one?"  It looked like the girl who speaks all the languages.

 

It seemed to me that scene was set shorty after Penance came to the orphanage (just after the scene of Horatio and Amalia's post coital discussion of her).  Which continues to bother me.  I can believe that Horatio (to some extent) wouldn't really bring up Amalia's true history even when they were alone, especially if she didn't bring it up first.  And while I can completely believe that Penance would keep Amalia's secrets....I don't believe that Penance would not ask about the future when they were alone.  The Penance we know is inquisitive and interested in the world...I can't imagine her not asking questions when she got the chance.  

It seems like a cop-out from the writers that she knew all along.  And it annoys me when characters don't behave in established ways just for the sake of a plot twist.

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1 minute ago, Proclone said:

It seemed to me that scene was set shorty after Penance came to the orphanage (just after the scene of Horatio and Amalia's post coital discussion of her).  Which continues to bother me.  I can believe that Horatio (to some extent) wouldn't really bring up Amalia's true history even when they were alone, especially if she didn't bring it up first.  And while I can completely believe that Penance would keep Amalia's secrets....I don't believe that Penance would not ask about the future when they were alone.  The Penance we know is inquisitive and interested in the world...I can't imagine her not asking questions when she got the chance.  

It seems like a cop-out from the writers that she knew all along.  And it annoys me when characters don't behave in established ways just for the sake of a plot twist.

Now that is is clear that it was before, or much earlier, it doesn’t make sense that Penance wouldn’t ask more about the future given that’s the scientific world she lives in.

 

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2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

England was/is largely not Catholic, so it could be run by a church, just not a Catholic church.

Yeah, but Anglicans normally prefer crosses to crucifixes - unless they're pretty high-church. Same goes for the sacred heart picture displayed on one of the walls of the hospital.

Edited by MissLucas

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15 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

OMG, the radiant Aeryn Sun (a.k.a. Claudia Black) is IN DA HOUSE!!!  Can I get a”Hell Yeah!” from the Farscape fans?

I have never watched Farscape nor have I ever heard of Claudia Black -- but it only took a second and I am in love with her! wow! she made an instant impression.

I will go back and binge watch the entire season because I find it makes more sense back to back than week separation between eps 

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19 hours ago, taanja said:

I have never watched Farscape nor have I ever heard of Claudia Black -- but it only took a second and I am in love with her! wow! she made an instant impression.

I will go back and binge watch the entire season because I find it makes more sense back to back than week separation between eps 

 

If her appearance on this show does anything, I hope it sends everybody scrambling to find copies of Farscape, which ran on the SyFy network between 1999 and 2004. It's one of the greatest shows that nobody has ever seen.

Edited by Philbert
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Daaamn Claudia Black has improved as an actress. Don't get me wrong, I always loved her, but her acting was a bit "uneven" in the past. She really brought it this episode and you could tell easily that it was the same character we've known as Amalia. I'm impress.

As I suspected last week, they revealed early in this episode what the Galanti is. That's why I wasn't that worried last episode. They move at a fast pace.

So a bunch of new questions:

Who else hitched a ride?

Who is the enemy?

What is the fight that is coming?

Who is sparkle- space- lady?

On 5/17/2021 at 3:13 PM, kariyaki said:

Actually, I think she already had that power in the future, there was something discussed about her having temporal side effects, of which we saw her having flashes.

Nah, she just had Flashbacks from the war and presumably all her enhancements. The Galanthi spores gave her flash forewards, which is kinda ironic in a way.

On 5/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

In her time, apparently polygamous marriage is a thing and telling people your actual name is not.

I thought so too at first, but it might have been "them" as in the gender-neutral pronoun. Probably not that big of a deal to be non-binary in the future.

On 5/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

The speculation about what the Galanthi was they were trying to do ranges from trying to bring in more Galanthi to fleeing the planet as a lost cause.

Turns out it saw the planet at this time as a lost cuase, but thought something could still be done in victorian england. So it made a time travel portal to then and there. How couldn't everybody have seen that?! It was so obvious! /s

On 5/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

There is a single Free Life prisoner who somehow convinces a PDC member to backstab his team.

I got a feeling that was the guys speciality. Probably somehow enhanced through tech or maybe the spores. He also did it on the battlefield, shouting for his enemies to give up and it somehow rattled even the true believer medic (I'm not good with names) for a moment. And when they got him to the bunker, first thing they did was tape his mouth shut.

Of course then the question becomes why in the hell they would ever leave him alone with one guy? That was a bit of plot contrivance, imo.

On 5/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

It is all too much for her, so she attempts to drown herself.

She didn't just attempt it. Nobody was using that body anymore when Stripe got in it...

On 5/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Why was there a proto-Touched who looked like Harriet from Victorian England (at least to me) in Zephyr's time? Why the one PDC turned traitor (other than because the plot required it)?

I mean they look a little alike, but not that much (and are played by different actresses). I think thats just coincidence.

On 5/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

What exactly is the spatial anomaly, and how it works, how/why at least some other future people were able to leap to the past.

Clearly an artificial wormhole built by the Galanthi. Since wormholes connect two different points in spacetime, theoretically they could not only bring you to another place, but also another time. Of course nobody knows if wormholes are actually a thing or just theoretically and I think there are some laws that prevent travels to the past, but don't quote me on that one. My understanding is very rudimentary.

On 5/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Terminator (some things are predestined to happen), Avengers: Endgame (the past is essentially frozen but you can make new futures for yourself) or what?

Terminator and Avangers Endgame couldn't even stick to consistent time travel rules. It annoys me way more in Avangers. Probably because it happened in the same movie, not the sequel, and Endgame was a nice enough movie, but certainly no T2. Then again, what is?

On 5/17/2021 at 3:38 PM, blackwing said:

I was completely lost.  Not gonna lie, the first few minutes of the show I kept checking my HBO app to see if I had clicked on the wrong show, and even after seeing the Indian lady who makes glass in the future on a spaceship, I was wondering what happened.

You must be new to Whedon-shows if visions of a post-apocalyptic future throw you this much. :D Lalalala Lalalalala, lalalalalalaa

Also they were not on a space ship and that was not the same indian lady.

On 5/17/2021 at 6:17 PM, iMonrey said:

The dialogue throughout the future scenes was incomprehensible because it was filled with made-up jargon to sound futuristic.

I had no problem understanding it. But then I watch a lot of Scifi and all that made up jargon is just par for the course...

23 hours ago, Dminches said:

When Amalia was talking to Penance and said "I hope that wasn't too much to take in" was that after the Galanthi mission and Maladie hanging?

That was a while ago, long before those missions. When "Amalia" first told her about who she really was.

23 hours ago, Proclone said:

Soldiers using jargon (even if it isn't jargon we use) and speaking rapidly might be realistic, but that doesn't make it an enjoyable experience for the viewer.

I did enjoy it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

19 hours ago, aghst said:

Never seen the actress who plays Stripe in Chapter 1 before.

As your doctor I'm prescribing you 4 seasons + the specials of Farscape and 10 seasons + the specials of Stargate - SG1, stat!

2 hours ago, Proclone said:

It seemed to me that scene was set shorty after Penance came to the orphanage (just after the scene of Horatio and Amalia's post coital discussion of her).  Which continues to bother me.  I can believe that Horatio (to some extent) wouldn't really bring up Amalia's true history even when they were alone, especially if she didn't bring it up first.  And while I can completely believe that Penance would keep Amalia's secrets....I don't believe that Penance would not ask about the future when they were alone.  The Penance we know is inquisitive and interested in the world...I can't imagine her not asking questions when she got the chance.  

It seems like a cop-out from the writers that she knew all along.  And it annoys me when characters don't behave in established ways just for the sake of a plot twist.

How do we know that she didn't ask questions? How do we know that Amalia didn't tell her pretty much everything? Penance seemed always very in the know when Amalia talked about or hinted at the future.

Edited by Zonk
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Was anyone else underwhelmed by the Galanthi?  I know we only got a brief glance in the video of the Galanthi's interactions with the scientist, but I was expecting something less......I don't know, silly (looking and acting), maybe.   I guess I like my aliens sober and serious (a la Star Trek Vulcans).  

While I'm being a little nit-picky, I find Penance to be too adorable and darling at times, particularly when her prototypes are going astray or she's interacting with Augie.  Too much twee* preciousness on the screen.

*Said in my best Irish brogue

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6 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Was anyone else underwhelmed by the Galanthi?  I know we only got a brief glance in the video of the Galanthi's interactions with the scientist, but I was expecting something less......I don't know, silly (looking and acting), maybe.   I guess I like my aliens sober and serious (a la Star Trek Vulcans).  

While I'm being a little nit-picky, I find Penance to be too adorable and darling at times, particularly when her prototypes are going astray or she's interacting with Augie.  Too much twee* preciousness on the screen.

*Said in my best Irish brogue

Speaking of Farscape, I thought of Pilot when I saw the Galanthi. Maybe I just need my eyes checked, though, because I thought the future Indian woman was potentially Harriet, and I didn't immediately recognize Claudia.

It's probably not a Joss Whedon original production if there's not at least one adorkable, twee person. Buffy had Willow, Angel had Fred, Firefly and Kaylee....I'm spacing out on Dollhouse, and it might be the exception, or it may be that since pretty much every one had multiple personalities imprinted on them, multiple people got shots at being the adorkable twee darling. I'm guessing it was Amy Acker's character (she was Fred in Angel) or November were the most likely to be twee.

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2 hours ago, Zonk said:

So a bunch of new questions:

Who else hitched a ride?

Who is the enemy?

What is the fight that is coming?

Who is sparkle- space- lady?

 

Not sure how spoilery this is since my observation is from the current episode...

Spoiler

Apparently, Dr. Hague is a hitcher.  According to closed caption, the hitcher statement in the rippling was said by two people, a male and a female.  The male speaker was identified as Dr. Hague.  The female speaker was only identified as "Woman".

 

I'm going to assume the sparkle space lady reference is from the Amalia's forward rippling.  I'm pretty sure that woman is a slightly older Myrtle (as Chicago Redshirt pointed out in an earlier post). 

 

One thought I had about the Victorian artifacts in the underground bunker.  I noticed a parasol was among the artifacts.  It seemed to be in fine shape despite the fairly delicate nature of the item.   Could that be one of Penance's creations (the electric parasol prod)?

 

Edited by grawlix
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6 hours ago, Zonk said:

 

How do we know that she didn't ask questions? How do we know that Amalia didn't tell her pretty much everything? Penance seemed always very in the know when Amalia talked about or hinted at the future.

She may very well have...but the show hasn't shown it and they've shown them alone multiple times.  It's poor storytelling to just handwave important conversations as happening off screen.  It breaks the fundamental rule of show don't tell.

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I missed the first chapter of the episode, tuning in when Amalia was in the asylum.  I came to the forum so see what I'd missed and y'all prepared me for going back to watch the beginning.  I knew I should turn on the captions and play very close attention as the content was hard to understand.  And, it worked.  Thanks to all who showed me the way!

I read that the final Season 1 episodes resume filming this summer but that the series probably won't return until sometime in 2022.  It will seem as if it's an entirely new show (to me) by then!

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1 hour ago, Proclone said:

She may very well have...but the show hasn't shown it and they've shown them alone multiple times.  It's poor storytelling to just handwave important conversations as happening off screen.  It breaks the fundamental rule of show don't tell.

There have been at least a couple of conversations that Penance and Amalia have where even without the power of hindsight it seemed clear that Penance knew more than we did about Amalia's true origins.

One off the top of my head, there was the situation where Penance talked about not wanting to guess the number of funerals that Amalia had  been to, and Amalia said, none, because we don't do that when I'm from. Penance took that in stride, with the implication that she had already known that Amalia was from somewhen else and that she had experienced a boatload of death.

There was also an exchange or two where Penance congratulated Amalia looking good in her skin, which signaled that Amalia was somehow in a different body. 

The scene in this episode confirms that she spilled the beans to Penance at sometime in the past. 

I am curious if she told Lavinia, and why she came to trust Penance enough to tell her. 

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7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It's probably not a Joss Whedon original production if there's not at least one adorkable, twee person. Buffy had Willow, Angel had Fred, Firefly and Kaylee....I'm spacing out on Dollhouse, and it might be the exception, or it may be that since pretty much every one had multiple personalities imprinted on them, multiple people got shots at being the adorkable twee darling.

I'd say it was Topher in Dollhouse.

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17 minutes ago, Zonk said:

I'd say it was Topher in Dollhouse.

I would say Topher fits a different Whedon archetype of writer surrogate/funny guy, ala Xander, Wash, and Lorne.

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Ok - so deep breath here.   I've been letting this stew in my head since Sunday, and since reading all the great posts above.   Let me preface this by saying that I had never heard of Joss Whedon before all the work toxicity reports hit the news and I have never watched any of the past tv shows that you folks are referencing (Buffy et al).    I'm not a big SyFy tv fan other than the original Star Trek and if you count it, The Twilight Zone and Outer Limits.   I also don't go to Super Hero movies though I read lots of comic books in my youth (we're talking 1960s here people) so I "get" the super powers concept.  

So far, 6 episodes in, my opinion is this: great acting, great sets/photography/costumes.  The story concept is really interesting but the writing of that story is kind of a cluster fuck.   Very few writers can do the constant going back and forth from the story present to flashback to present again,  well.   In the wrong hands it just becomes confusing.  In this case, you're also throwing in all sorts of different accents into the mix and also past and future slang and idioms.   I'm watching this show with a 73 year old (who was never a comic book fan) who usually watches police procedurals and Dour British Detective shows and he is confused as hell watching The Nevers, and I have to say, a good amount of the time, I am as well.   In that way, this show is kind of a fail.  I keep thinking that with all the talent involved and the money obviously put into the production, if they only had a writer who could have crafted such an interesting concept coherently you could have had a fantasy masterpiece.   Instead we have this episodic thing which never quite gels as a whole, especially when watching it every week as opposed to binge watching it.

I'm going to miss this now that it's gone (and probably won't be back unit 2022 - yikes!) but it makes me sad that there wasn't a master story teller (Neil Gaiman, where are you?) behind this concept.  To think of what it is, instead of what it could have been.... 

Edited by 12catcrazy
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11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

There have been at least a couple of conversations that Penance and Amalia have where even without the power of hindsight it seemed clear that Penance knew more than we did about Amalia's true origins.

One off the top of my head, there was the situation where Penance talked about not wanting to guess the number of funerals that Amalia had  been to, and Amalia said, none, because we don't do that when I'm from. Penance took that in stride, with the implication that she had already known that Amalia was from somewhen else and that she had experienced a boatload of death.

There was also an exchange or two where Penance congratulated Amalia looking good in her skin, which signaled that Amalia was somehow in a different body. 

The scene in this episode confirms that she spilled the beans to Penance at sometime in the past. 

I am curious if she told Lavinia, and why she came to trust Penance enough to tell her. 

I'm not saying they haven't hinted that Penance knows.  My point is, the Penance we know, seems to be quite inquisitive and would explicitly ask about the future and more importantly technology from the future when she was alone with Amalia.  Having them both be cagey about when they're alone if Penance has always known everything is weird, especially since we know now that Amalia told her everything right off the bat.  Which means the hinting was for our benefit and not the characters'.

That's the part I find to be poor storytelling.

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On 5/17/2021 at 12:16 PM, marcee said:

I quite enjoyed this episode.

For what it's worth, here's what I picked up: Pheen = Morphine. Stripe, Boots, Crescent, Knitter - those were all names for their military positions: Boots - being boots on the ground/infantry type, Stripe - appeared to be combat/assassin, Knitter - knits things together; she was their medic, Crescent - appeared to be their leader.

This is pretty much what I gleaned from the episode too. I think audiences have just become accustomed to watching tv with only half their brains "on".  We watch while also scrolling through our various social media accounts, folding laundry. cooking, etc.  So it's jarring when we come up against a show that doesn't spoon feed us but instead insists that we pay attention and that we use context to derive meaning.  I find it refreshing.  I don't claim to understand everything - and I had to rewatch the episode with closed captioning on - but I appreciate that I'm being challenged.  😁

It was great to see Claudia Black again.  

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I kinda think I sorta understand what that was all about.  (And reading this thread confirms that what I got out of it is pretty consistent with what you all think.)  The future stuff was pretty confusing but I'm not sure it's important to be able to sort out who and what everyone was talking about.  It seems that instead of preventing a future war, the Galanthi brought the war back to Victorian London, with "normal" people fighting those who have been touched/spored.  History preceding itself.

Zephyr's enemy - Miss Bidlow? or the woman we see in the flash saying something about Zephyr not being the only one?  (Some of you thought that was Myrtle?)

Laura Donnelly was fantastic, switching from the sweet, sad Molly to cynical, aggressive Zephyr/Stripe.  She had lots of funny lines about her little body and other things.  Wish we had gotten the scene where she met Penance.

I have no idea who Claudia Black is but I really liked her in the future scenes, even if I didn't 100% understand them.

Looking forward to the rest of the season (next year, ugh) but I hope they stick to the Victorian era and not go back to the future.  (See what I did there?)

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On 5/19/2021 at 8:12 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I would say Topher fits a different Whedon archetype of writer surrogate/funny guy, ala Xander, Wash, and Lorne.

Maybe a mix of both? I mean just watch this scene:

Or remember the sequence on his birthday, where he was playing laser tag and was just hanging with a bro-imprint that was in Sierra? If that wasn't adorkable I don't know what is.

 

I guess the other person that comes to mind was Mellie. She was a bit adorkable and twee. Until there were three flowers in a vase and third one was green. Then, not so much.

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Question I've been meaning to ask:  why did Dr. Hague imitate/mock Zephyr's accent during the interview?  Does he just have a good ear for British accents and suspects she's faking?  On paper that's a cruel thing to do to a mental patient.  My first thought/guess was that he knows she's from the future, and so is he.  But then why would he let her go on her merry way if that's true?

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Just watched all 6 eps over the last couple days. Have been quite enjoying it, though I'm not a fan of the whole future-dystopia thing (the lighting always sucks), so the first chapter was not my cup of tea. Don't think it was especially confusing (the jargon just feels rather try-hard), but what lost me was that after 5 episodes full of action and character development, I'd become attached to the characters in the Victorian era story, and just didn't give a crap about anyone in the futurescape. I hope the next season sticks to the Victorian time and leaves the future more for Mrs. True's backstory.

Did a future soldier during the first battle scene vomit up three glowing blue orbs, or did I hallucinate that? Was there some importance to that? Like, are those the "sparks" Dr. Mephesto is hacking out of the touched? <shrug>

Out of all the nasty characters we've seen so far, I honestly think that bitch of a bakery owner is the worst.

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6 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

Did a future soldier during the first battle scene vomit up three glowing blue orbs, or did I hallucinate that? Was there some importance to that? Like, are those the "sparks" Dr. Mephesto is hacking out of the touched? <shrug>

It was some sort of refrigerant, used to bring her body temperature down so that they’d think she was dead. It has nothing to do with the touched.

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9 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

Out of all the nasty characters we've seen so far, I honestly think that bitch of a bakery owner is the worst.

He! So true!

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I've been wrong on *every single* one of my predictions so far (though I did identify the reporter as Maladie before anyone else, so, there's a sop for my ego), but that won't stop me from speculating about future stories.

I think two people "hitched" a ride: Knitter, the medic from the future, is in Lord Massen's daughter, whom he locked up in the basement for all her foul talk of the future; the fanatical earth-firster guy from the future who can talk people into abandoning their causes, I am speculating, is in Primrose. We simply know less of Primrose's background than anyone else, plus, some of these episodes have been designed to have climactic battles where the person's power will make the fight memorable: the man who walks on water, the woman who can destroy things by touching them... I imagine fighting a ten-foot-tall child with a man's fanatical mind inside would be a stunner of a fight.

Is this thread appropriate for speculations? Or should there be another thread for that?

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I have been having fun going back and rewatching all the episodes after this one. So many things make more sense now, even Maladies rantings. Dr Hague and whoever he had working with him (the angels she refers to) that caused her pain for two years. Amalia almost saying Mary is the voice of the Galanthi after she was kidnapped. Being referred to as a soldier by the doctor who has healing powers.

You see the episodes with fresh eyes.

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I'd forgotten that scene of Amalia tracing her face at the mirror. Now we know she was tracing her old scar. I feel like this ep would have been better earlier in the season. It reframed so many scenes and moments. I realize it would have stifled a lot of the speculation and surprise, but I think knowing these things earlier would have really enhanced the series. It was easily the best episode of the series so far IMO. Laura Donnelly was great. Were any of those accents hers?

The first chapter was weird as hell but I liked it. Not enough to want to watch it again, but I liked it. Interesting that names are only sacred to one side. Is keeping their names secret what the captive soldier meant about them hiding from God?

So the scientists helped the Galanthi build this portal to London 1896. So the artifacts are from when they tried it? And from later, "this Christmas Carol crap is so specific to my three term focus"- Amalia studied Victorian times? Maybe that's why the Galanthi took her instead of Knitter or one of the others for this mission. She was in certain ways very suited for it.

Molly was just heart breaking.

Sarah is sweet but loony. Horatio bought in very quickly. Is this some kind of thing where he thinks she's hot so he went along with it? I just have trouble believing that he accepted it all that day just because she said so.

I understand why Amalia sold out Sarah but I also understand why she feels so badly about it later. In one selfish moment, she ruined Sarah's life. It seemed like the kind of self preservation that was natural for Stripe but that Amalia has grown past. It not only set Sarah up to be tortured by Dr. Hague, but it took her away from her husband (assuming that's who Lester was) too. That's a lot of consequence for one bad decision. I understand why she blames herself but I also like that it has never gotten in the way of recognizing that Maladie killed those people and Maladie has to pay for it. One decision along the way doesn't make all of it her fault.

Amalia really believes that she could be the reason everything went wrong. My question is did it go wrong? Obviously the doctors didn't get to come and Stripe was picked up last minute but maybe thinking it's all wrong are her own issues. Maybe the touched are exactly what the Galanthi intended and Amalia's mission to protect them is exactly what they wanted from her.

Bullshit to Amalia telling Penance that saving Maladie was the right call. It was stupid and I choose to believe that she only said that to make peace.

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Looking back there were definitely clues that Amalia was a time traveler. I just binged episodes 3-6 over the weekend so I don’t recall which episodes specifically, but I noted a throwaway line where Amalia said “when I come from” rather than “where I come from”. “You invented the amplifier” when Penance was making up a name for the device ala Murdoch Mysteries. And of course the most obvious clue, her fighting style… what Victorian-era woman would know how to do that, much less actually do it?

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I was really confused during this episode.  It doesn't help that I can't remember anyone's names or even faces, so I keep confusing who the characters are especially with the time travel thing.

On 5/17/2021 at 4:38 PM, Dminches said:

Also, who was the person who said to Amalia while she was falling backwards in front of Galanthi that she would have to forget "that one?"  It looked like the girl who speaks all the languages.

 

I was thinking she looked like  the girl who speaks all the languages, Sarah (pre-Maladie), and the woman who believed the Galanthi was Hope but died with Stripe in future time.

As for the Galanthi, all I got was Octopus. 

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13 hours ago, gail56 said:

Amalia almost saying Mary is the voice of the Galanthi after she was kidnapped.

I caught that on my re-watch, too! It was when Désirée first shows up at the orphanage and she tells them about her power.

Quote

Amalia: And Maladie's got no idea what Mary's "turn" can do. Mary is the voice of the Galan - ...oh. Huh. It's not just men.

Désirée: No.

 

Edited by Popples
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9 hours ago, l star said:

Laura Donnelly was great. Were any of those accents hers?

 

No.  Laura and Ann Skelly are both from Ireland, but they do have different Irish accents.

Edited by Stuffy
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