S04.E13: Suspicion

[anna0852]

I think Maddie is in a very dark place and that a combination of post partum with her history of as abuse victim is a toxic brew. I think she's doubting herself as a mother very deeply and all of the years of her ex telling her how worthless she is and how she can't do anything right is bubbling up now as well. I can't see her hurting the baby but I can absolutely see her ending up needing inpatient treatment for what appeared to be some incipient mental issues.

[Empress1]

3 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I actually thought that she was acting more like she was going to harm herself.  Forgive me for sort of not caring enough if she does.  JLH looks so, so pregnant in these scenes, that I have to believe she will need her own pregnancy leave, which has me wondering about next week's episode with respect to her character. 🤔

You are correct. And since they can't write her pregnancy into the story since her character has a (beautiful - that is a gorgeous baby) baby who is only a few months old, I wonder about this as well. I mean, I guess they could give them "Irish twins," but that seems unlikely.

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I think Maddie is in a very dark place and that a combination of post partum with her history of as abuse victim is a toxic brew. I think she's doubting herself as a mother very deeply and all of the years of her ex telling her how worthless she is and how she can't do anything right is bubbling up now as well. I can't see her hurting the baby but I can absolutely see her ending up needing inpatient treatment for what appeared to be some incipient mental issues.

I agree. I didn't think she was acting like she was going to hurt the baby, but I did think she might hurt herself or just take off - when Chim was talking about the Munchausen mom, he said something like "He'd be better off without her," and Maddie got a look on her face that said "Yeah, I get it." I could see her just leaving because her PPD is telling her that she's not a good mother and they'd be better off without her.

I didn't know about the Eddie controversy until I read it here, and now I don't care what happens to him.

Whenever I read about or see a bridezilla story I'm like, she acts like this because she gets away with it. I wish a bride would try to hook me up to a polygraph or demand that I lose or gain weight or cut or dye my hair, or get extensions ... I'd tell her no, wouldn't go to the wedding, and would get on with my life.

Seeing Athena and Bobby fight was the most passion I've seen from them. Angela Bassett is stunning and Peter Krause CAN be sexy, but they are not sexy together. Their family game night was so cute - I love that all four parents get along.

[rove4]

That was an unexpected ending.  That said, it looked to me like Eddie was shot fairly high up on his right shoulder which doesn't seem like a necessarily fatal wound.  

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, toodywoody said:

Damn!

From Athena and Bobby. To Eddie getting shot, to me thinking poor Buck (can one more thing happen to him or around him), to what the mom was doing to her kid. And then Maddie making me think she has postpartum and going to harm the baby.

Even before the ending I was thinking "those are a lot of plots in one episode."

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I didn't know about the Eddie controversy until I read it here, and now I don't care what happens to him.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Anyone care to enlighten me?

He defended his wife's use of the n-word.

[mittsigirl]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:22 PM, fireice13 said:

I had so many thoughts and then that last scene happened! I was surprised they went with the blood spray onto Buck, that's brutal. Obviously the sniper is targeting first responders because they had a clear shot on Buck (not in uniform) and moved to shoot at the other guy (in uniform). I am really hoping they don't make Christopher an orphan.

Other storylines - the AAA is definitely deadly if it ruptures, I work in blood banking and usually ruptured ones don't make it to the hospital but if it ruptures at the hospital or in surgery, those patients use a LOT of blood products and still don't always make it. 

I'm surprised the drunk driver was released, even if she did have an ankle monitor. Also, Bobby said she had a relapse and from what I understand, at least in real life, her being allowed out with monitoring would probably require her to stay sober. If she fell off the wagon, why wasn't her release revoked? I get Bobby wanting to help her, but he and Athena really do need to work on their communication. 

Poor Maddie, I wonder if she has postpartum depression?

My 1st thought about Christopher losing his dad was that Buck would adopt him and raise him.

Maddie sure does look like she is in the thralls of post-partum depression. Kind of how I looked when I had it, but she is still able to leave the house and go to her job, something that I sure couldn't do, so maybe it's in the beginning stages and she gets worse?

[Irlandesa]

6 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

My 1st thought about Christopher losing his dad was that Buck would adopt him and raise him.

I thought that too but Eddie's parents might want custody.

[shapeshifter]

On 5/18/2021 at 5:39 PM, marceline said:

I hope that they aren't about to kill off Eddie. If he's going to leave just have him, Ana, and Christopher move away after his brush with death. Making Christopher an orphan is not something I want to see. Although the re-appearance of Carla makes me wonder.

11 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

My initial reaction was the same. But after thinking about it I realized there was an artery too. That was a lot of blood, and he definitely had the stare of death on him

So it seems I'm the only one who interpreted the looks between Buck and Eddie as Eddie telegraphing to Buck: Take care of Christopher!
And then I thought of the reappearance of Carla and figured she would help Buck take care of Christopher.
 

12 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I know in real life being shot in the shoulder can be fatal. But using tv logic, being shot in the shoulder usually means the person lives.

On TV being shot in the shoulder means you're good to pitch a no-hitter next week, or, on this show, carry a family out of a burning building next week.

 

I hated the Bobby and Athena AA business. 
Bobby is now not just on my imaginary So Glad I'm Not Married To That Person list, I think he's in the top 3.
And Athena isn't too far down either.

 

 

[amarante]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:37 PM, Irlandesa said:

Yeah.  And that was one thing that story kind of glossed over. Hen was right in that the doctor should have done better at listening. And unconscious bias is real which leads to poorer outcomes for people of color.  But there are also limitations to what an ER is intended to do.  An ER doc likely doesn't have hours to spend to do a complex diagnosis for a patient who wasn't exhibiting many symptoms by the time she arrived at the hospital.

 

LOL - They should have gone to the ER at Chastain (The Resident) where the ER doctors spend endless hours diagnosing those who come through the doors. And they diagnose and follow up on treatments for cancer and other specialties in lieu of referring them.

I am also amazed that people are advised they need surgery from medical doctors they have never seen before and they don't call their own doctors and/or get a second opinion. Unless it is a true emergency in which surgery is needed immediately I don't know anyone who doesn't research to try to get the most highly respected doctor or surgeon

Edited May 20, 2021 by amarante

[Nialla]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I thought that too but Eddie's parents might want custody.

They already tried to get Christopher at one point. This show is all about the drama, so I could see them going with Eddie had named Buck and/or Carla as Christopher's guardians in his will, and then there's a courtroom saga with Eddie's parents over custody.

Even if Eddie survives, he theoretically has a long recovery ahead (though that rarely happens on this show), so I could see his parents swooping in. That might even spur them to pursue custody if they think they can make the case that Eddie can't take care of his kid. Again, cue custody battle with Buck and/or Carla playing a huge role.

Speaking of Carla, I was a bit confused over her return. When she was appearing by video earlier this season, I just assumed it was a pandemic storyline playing out. Now we learn her father was ill and has now passed? Was his illness mentioned before and I missed it, or is it a light retcon?

 

[ribboninthesky1]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:15 PM, possibilities said:

I do think they ramped up the Bobby-Athena conflict really fast, but the issues they are fighting over have been there since the beginning, really. It's not out of character, it's just really sudden that it's come to a head. 

I'm not even sure it's sudden, as you mention, the issues have always been there.  Maybe it's not fair, but I felt more sympathetic to Bobby's point of view.  I'm all for independence and self-reliance, and Athena and Michael's divorce was initially rough.   I've never been that invested in their marriage, and I have sometimes wondered why Athena got remarried so quickly.  Maybe Bobby jumped into the marriage because he got a ready made family, but didn't think through whether he and Athena were really compatible.  It feels like they could just be friends, and none of the relationships would change all that much.  Beyond Bobby not living with Athena, I guess. 

8 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I didn't know about the Eddie controversy until I read it here, and now I don't care what happens to him.

Same.  

I'm glad we got to see more of Hen's studies - seems like the show forgot about that aspect of her life for several episodes to haphazardly focus on the foster parent narrative. I definitely related to everything she and her mom conveyed about interacting with doctors. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

He defended his wife's use of the n-word.

Hmm.  How odd.  At best.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by SuprSuprElevated

[TVForever]

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

He defended his wife's use of the n-word.

 

1 minute ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

The character did that?  Wow, I don't remember it.

 

The actor, actually. I didn't know about it until now either. Follow the link to the article.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So it seems I'm the only one who interpreted the looks between Buck and Eddie as Eddie telegraphing to Buck: Take care of Christopher!
And then I thought of the reappearance of Carla and figured she would help Buck take care of Christopher.

I didn't think about that - seems like a valid observation to me.

[SuprSuprElevated]

6 hours ago, TVForever said:

 

The actor, actually. I didn't know about it until now either. Follow the link to the article.

I actually did that after I posted/edited my comment.  Thanks

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Why show, why? Why can’t you let Christopher be happy for a longer period of time? His heart will break into million pieces all over again, how could you? 😭😭😭

[mostlylurking]

Yep, Maddie is definitely in the throes of PPD. I went through it and it’s so sad. I pretty much missed out on my kids first six months of life. I was there physically, but my anxiety didn’t let me enjoy anything. I hope Maddie gets the help and support she needs. I still hold resentment no one tried to help or even seemed to notice I was in a bad place. 

I didn’t know anything about the Eddie real life controversy so I was completely shocked by the ending. Holy crap. That was a lot of blood. Poor Buck and Christopher. I was so happy to see Carla again though. 

Ok, so Athena should have gone directly to Bobby with her concerns instead of staking him out, but he was also being petty. He could have just said he was helping a new AA person. Instead he flat out lied. Athena should discuss her life decisions with her husband, but she’s not going around lying about shit. I don’t know. I don’t like Bobby so that probably colors my opinion.  

Edited May 21, 2021 by mostlylurking

[CatLady]

This gives us a more accurate placement of the shot.  It is the chest but near the shoulder.  It had to have collapsed the lung, perhaps hit the pulmonary artery.  The blood loss looks great but blood loss is often magnified by the viewer.

It could go either way.  Looks grim but this is tv.

 

 

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, CatLady said:

It could go either way.  Looks grim but this is tv.

Maybe he'll recover and decide to get a desk job so Christopher wont be as likely to be orphaned (ignoring stats that probably indicate that he could just as easily die at his desk job or while traveling to it) --if they want to write him out. 
I don't see defending his wife's tweets as being a fireable offense, especially since English isn't her first language and taboo words in one language aren't always taboo in another. I think he's guilty of not handling the PR very well, but that seems to be par for the course with actors, and isn't there no such thing as bad press for TV shows? Or do I have that wrong?  
OTOH, his character hasn't been very well written. He's been mostly defined as Father of Christopher.
Since changing up the cast on the sister show was a good move, maybe they're going for the same here.

[Empress1]

58 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

isn't there no such thing as bad press for TV shows? Or do I have that wrong?  

Oh, you can absolutely tweet yourself out of a job - just ask Gina Carano.

I suspect All Rise was just cancelled because of the controversy around it - the showrunner was horrible and there were all kinds of fucked-up things happening in the writers' room (a bunch of writers quit). Check out the All Rise media thread if you're interested.

I also suspect that Ellen canceling her show is due to all the stuff that came out recently about her creating a toxic work environment (I've heard for years that she's nowhere near as nice as her TV persona makes her out to be), but that's just a suspicion.

[meatball77]

If it was any other show I'd say he's dead but this is the same show that had Chimney survive from a bar through his head.

They didn't get rid of him at the beginning of the season which makes me think that if he's being fired it would be because of the situation and that he was a problem on set.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

Yep, Maddie is definitely in the throes of PPD. I went through it and it’s so sad. I pretty much missed out on my kids first six months of life. I was there physically, but my anxiety didn’t let me enjoy anything. I hope Maddie gets the help and support she needs. I still hold resentment no one tried to help or even seemed to notice I was in a bad place. 

I feel you - for me it was nine months. But since I'm very good at hiding my emotions, it wasn't particularly noticeable to anyone else.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Clanstarling

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, meatball77 said:

They didn't get rid of him at the beginning of the season which makes me think that if he's being fired it would be because of the situation and that he was a problem on set.

If Eddie dies. I don't necessarily think it's anything specific to the actor but rather because they wanted to do something "shocking" and, for whatever reason, chose him.  Maybe the controversy last summer is part of it but if it were really big enough they wanted to fire him for it, I think it would've happened sooner.

I'm 50/50 at this point.  There have been so many close calls on this show only for the character to recover--Buck, Chim and Chim's brother and Maddie's boss this season--so why wouldn't Eddie recover?  At the same time, there have been so many close calls and people have recovered that you think that they'll have to kill one of the characters at some point.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Irlandesa

[tvgoddess]

Eddie's had next to no storyline this year. There were a couple of episodes where he only had one line or two. Maybe they had to keep him around for some reason but weren't willing to give him focus until now when they're getting ready to kill him off. No one else in the main cast has been shelved that way. 

But I still think he'll make it only because they don't have the guts to off a main character.

[bmoore4026]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:28 PM, chlban said:

Yeah, I noticed the excessive amount of blood as well. 

No one could bounce back from that.  I mean, this is seems to be gearing up for a mass shooting and it wouldn't have the same impact if no one died, right?

[izabella]

5 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

Yep, Maddie is definitely in the throes of PPD. I went through it and it’s so sad. I pretty much missed out on my kids first six months of life. I was there physically, but my anxiety didn’t let me enjoy anything. I hope Maddie gets the help and support she needs. I still hold resentment no one tried to help or even seemed to notice I was in a bad place. 

 

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I feel you - for me it was nine months. But since I'm very good at hiding my emotions, it wasn't particularly noticeable to anyone else.

I'm so sorry you went through that!  May I ask why you didn't seek out help sooner?   And why you hid your emotions so no one would notice?

I can't believe Chim doesn't SEE how awful Maddie looks and feels.  I mean, she was crying the entire time after he came home and she asked him stay with the baby while she showered.  It seems really obvious that she is in trouble.

Edited May 21, 2021 by izabella

[Clanstarling]

16 minutes ago, izabella said:

 

I'm so sorry you went through that!  May I ask why you didn't seek out help sooner?   And why you hid your emotions so no one would notice?

I can't believe Chim doesn't SEE how awful Maddie looks and feels.  I mean, she was crying the entire time after he came home and she asked him stay with the baby while she showered.  It seems really obvious that she is in trouble.

Because I wasn't raised in a family (or generation) that viewed mental health treatment as a first option. Not to mention, I was too overwhelmed to navigate the mental health system (30+ years ago). I finally told my GP, who gave me meds, and that helped clear it up completely.

Hiding my emotions wasn't because of the PPD. I grew up in a family that moved alot - sometimes 3x in a school year. (16 different schools by the time I graduated) I learned to be quiet and observe  before revealing myself to others. (I jokingly say I learned to present a reasonable facsimile of a "normal" person).

I also came from a "one step in front of the other" type of upbringing. Which in many ways (such as the pandemic) stood me in good stead. In others, such as PPD, not so much.

[Ailianna]

I don't think asking your partner to watch the baby while you shower after work is a sign of PPD. But the way she spoke and moved was the sign. And I don't totally think Chim should be expected to see every moment. It's more the accumulation of moments but the audience saw more of that than he did.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

No one could bounce back from that.  I mean, this is seems to be gearing up for a mass shooting and it wouldn't have the same impact if no one died, right?

I think the key was the fact that they had to pull back and leave him there, with no attention to his wound at all, nothing to help stop the bleeding.

Honestly, as much as I don't want to see Christopher suffer, I will call bullshit if he survives it.

[Snazzy Daisy]

I think Eddie will make it but he could be losing motor functions in his hand/arm due to nerves damage. This is the reason why Carla is back in the picture.

Viewers love Christopher so much, making him an orphan could trigger a lot of backlashes. I don’t know what Eddie would do if he cannot be a firefighter anymore.

 

[mostlylurking]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I'm so sorry you went through that!  May I ask why you didn't seek out help sooner?   And why you hid your emotions so no one would notice?

Thank you.  It was tough.  Honestly I felt really guilty for feeling horrible.  I tried for many years to have a child and this was my miracle.  Why wasn’t I over the moon??  I felt badly for not feeling overwhelmed with joy.  When Chim was able to make the baby stop crying, I could really feel Maddie’s sadness.  I would feel exactly the same way.  My daughter had colic for four months and would literally cry all day except when eating or sleeping.  Then my husband would come home from work and hold her and she would stop.  I felt so useless.

In fairness, my husband is awesome and he did the best he could. But I look back on pictures of myself at that time and I’m like what the fuck?  I look absolutely awful.  Why didn’t anyone reach out?  I’m still not totally over that.  I wish I had had a better network of support.

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

 I wish I had had a better network of support.

I'm guessing the tense of verb you're using (is "had had" past perfect or pluperfect or...?) means that at least now you do have a better network of support. 🙂

I am really not wanting to see Maddie's PPD story, even though I do think it's good that they are showing it (to other people). I just saw a PPD arc on Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist, so I'm done for now. 

[mostlylurking]

22 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm guessing the tense of verb you're using (is "had had" past perfect or pluperfect or...?) means that at least now you do have a better network of support. 🙂

No, not really.  But now I am in a place where I can handle it, and I don’t really need any help right now.  Even though the lack of support still stings, it’s made me stronger.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I don't think asking your partner to watch the baby while you shower after work is a sign of PPD. But the way she spoke and moved was the sign. And I don't totally think Chim should be expected to see every moment. It's more the accumulation of moments but the audience saw more of that than he did.

And because the baby is colic, Maddie says she's not sleeping and is stressed.  I can see how initially, especially if this just began, this appears as if she's just sleep deprived.  People who are around her daily might also not have noticed if it got progressively worse instead of happening all at once. 

[possibilities]

I thought she was just sleep deprived, until I saw Chim wasn't. They are splitting shifts with the baby equally, so why is he okay and she isn't... unless it's PPD. He may feel, though, that he can't say something like: "You look terrible, are you okay?" without her taking offense. Pregnancy and breastfeeding take more of a toll on a woman's body and maybe he thinks this is normal? But still-- she looked ROUGH. Aren't they also getting help from the family who took him in when his mom was gone? You'd think that they would also have noticed something is not right with Maddie, also. I can't remember her name, but that woman had kids. She knows.

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Aren't they also getting help from the family who took him in when his mom was gone? You'd think that they would also have noticed something is not right with Maddie, also. I can't remember her name, but that woman had kids. She knows.

Mrs. Lee.

[possibilities]

5 hours ago, tvgoddess said:

Mrs. Lee.

Thanks! I am having so much trouble remembering names these days. It's not just on TV shows, either. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

On 5/21/2021 at 3:26 PM, SnazzyDaisy said:

I don’t know what Eddie would do if he cannot be a firefighter anymore.

Ok, let's do a what if...

Maddie up and leaves Chim (either with or without the baby) due to her PPD (perhaps JLH wants out with a new baby of her own?), and Eddie recovers enough to become a 9-1-1 dispatcher.

 

[kwnyc]

I thought the Bobby/Athena argument was spot-on and they needed to air these things. Bobby should have told Athena about helping the drunk driver (and he shouldn't be her sponsor, because you aren't supposed to sponsor someone of the opposite sex if you are straight). And Athena is definitely someone who makes unilateral decisions without discussing it with family. (I was also surprised that the drunk driver wasn't in custody. Would she really be out on bail after an accident of that magnitude?)

And the Bobby & Athena really dug in with the airing of their issues. Though as Bobby was walking away, and he got the call that Eddie had been shot, if the scene had gone on for another line or two, it probably would have been Athena saying: Let's go! I'll use my siren!

One of the things this show is persistent about is saying that therapy is GOOD. (Unlike almost all the other cop/medical shows) and it's not a weakness to need it. Athena could do with some therapy; Bobby has his meetings, which aren't therapy, but at least he has a support network of AA people.