Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
ElectricBoogaloo

S04.E06: Vows

Recommended Posts

Quote

June is suddenly reunited with a familiar face that could change everything for her but also leads to some tough choices that will have to be made.

Promo:

Original air date: 5/19/21

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

What are those wire fences (cages?) with the bobbed wire on top?  A place to keep refugees?  Just the border?

I hope someone posts the Israeli promo soon.

Edited by Umbelina
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I hope someone posts the Israeli promo soon.

Considering that Israel is on the brink of a war right now, I wouldn't count on it.

  • Like 1
  • Useful 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

What are those wire fences (cages?) with the bobbed wire on top?  A place to keep refugees?  Just the border?

I hope someone posts the Israeli promo soon.

I'm guessing it's the border.

Given that Moira taking June out would be against "the rules", I suspect that one of the terms of the ceasefire was that, while Canada was allowed to send in humanitarian aid, they were not allowed to help anybody leave Gilead. If so, taking June with them would risk Gilead arguing that Canada had violated the agreement, and give them an excuse to deny access in the future.

  • Like 5
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, greekmom said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO1KWJ8DK9Y/?hl=en

Well that's not going to turn out like I thought it would....

I know why she did it, and I probably would have too, but Moira assisting a Gilead criminal to get her to Canada could be seen as an act of aggression and start a huge fight. 

They should've sneaked her in, drove further east once they got to Canada, and had someone "find" her like they did Emily. Then they could've offered political asylum. 

  • Like 4
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post

What concerns me is the fact that the one guy (who I previously thought was BJ Steven) saying to turn her in. Does he not know Gilead? I agree with @mamadrama about planting her at another boarder point. 

Interesting that they didn't travel by land but through the Great Lakes.  I still don't buy they were able to get there at record time given the route they have to take. Even if their starting point was Thunder Bay instead of Toronto. At best I would think St. Joseph's Island.

39873.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Useful 5

Share this post


Link to post

I'm less concerned about Moira helping June into Canada than I am of June strong-arming Moira into joining the Nighthawks. It's bad enough that gentle Janine would join what is essentially a terrorist group when she could have had something like a family with Steven's people. Let Moira continue to be an aide worker and de facto mother to Nicole.

I'm not anti-June but I did cheer a little bit when the Martha was like fuck June Osborne. I am glad the show is addressing the resentment and other consequences of her actions. I appreciate that they can't say she has plot armor by virtue of being the protagonist of a story that has already been written and it makes sense to me that the people around her are sick of St. June who has done a better job of killing mayday operatives than Gilead.

If June does make it to Canada, I mean, I understand it being an act of war but does it matter? They just took in 86 children. They're already at war with Gilead. I don't think she'll go, though. She would be too bored being with Luke and raising Nicole. Even though it would be the smart thing to do and the best way to get Hannah back.

Just, please, show, don't put her back into that fucking red cloak in a room alone with Aunt Lydia. I am done with that noise.

  • Like 12
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I'm less concerned about Moira helping June into Canada than I am of June strong-arming Moira into joining the Nighthawks. It's bad enough that gentle Janine would join what is essentially a terrorist group when she could have had something like a family with Steven's people. Let Moira continue to be an aide worker and de facto mother to Nicole.

I'm not anti-June but I did cheer a little bit when the Martha was like fuck June Osborne. I am glad the show is addressing the resentment and other consequences of her actions. I appreciate that they can't say she has plot armor by virtue of being the protagonist of a story that has already been written and it makes sense to me that the people around her are sick of St. June who has done a better job of killing mayday operatives than Gilead.

If June does make it to Canada, I mean, I understand it being an act of war but does it matter? They just took in 86 children. They're already at war with Gilead. I don't think she'll go, though. She would be too bored being with Luke and raising Nicole. Even though it would be the smart thing to do and the best way to get Hannah back.

Just, please, show, don't put her back into that fucking red cloak in a room alone with Aunt Lydia. I am done with that noise.

Terrorist group or freedom fighters?

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
18 hours ago, greekmom said:

Another clip

Moira is like, "I am NOT cleaning up your shit again. You got a a husband and a baby up there and you WILL come with me."

18 hours ago, greekmom said:

What concerns me is the fact that the one guy (who I previously thought was BJ Steven) saying to turn her in. Does he not know Gilead? I agree with @mamadrama about planting her at another boarder point. 

Interesting that they didn't travel by land but through the Great Lakes.  I still don't buy they were able to get there at record time given the route they have to take. Even if their starting point was Thunder Bay instead of Toronto. At best I would think St. Joseph's Island.

39873.jpg

The more I look at this and think about it the more in confused as to why the show didn't use Detroit.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Its probably as simple as "we mentioned Chicago before so....".

And who wants to go to Detroit? :)

  • Like 1
  • Laugh 4
  • Surprise 1

Share this post


Link to post

21 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Terrorist group or freedom fighters?

Can they be both? I get they're on our side but they're just killing the young men the old men sent to war. There will always be more Gilead soldiers, more grist for the mill. It's not fighting smart. I get the bloodlust, I would have it myself, but June would be more useful giving intelligence and targeting the bad guys at the top of the chain.

 

 .

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/15/2021 at 1:14 AM, The Mighty Peanut said:

If June does make it to Canada, I mean, I understand it being an act of war but does it matter? They just took in 86 children. They're already at war with Gilead. I don't think she'll go, though. She would be too bored being with Luke and raising Nicole. Even though it would be the smart thing to do and the best way to get Hannah back.

Just, please, show, don't put her back into that fucking red cloak in a room alone with Aunt Lydia. I am done with that noise.

Right now, it seems that things are balanced on a knife-edge. Gilead has military power but can be crippled by economic sanctions so they're staying their hand over the children on Angels' Flight. Aunt Ruth was talking about the new Handmaids replacing the lost children, which hints that Gilead may have essentially given up on getting them back. If it does come to war, Canada is not likely to be fighting alone, so Gilead may not want to get into a conflict if they're not confident of victory. They also have their war against the rebels to contend with so, while the loss of the children is a blow, it's a loss that they may have accepted.

The other difficulty with Angels' Flight is that the children of Handmaids were the ones brought to Canada.

Imagine trying to orchestrate displays of grief and pleas for the return of a child for 86 couples and the Handmaid who is the child's mother. In some cases, the Handmaid can't be produced, because she's dead or mutilated. Others can't be trusted to stick to the party line about how they wanted their children to be raised by godly families, and that they willingly chose to be Handmaids. Canada could reasonably expect that, if Gilead is claiming that the Handmaid consented to her child being adopted by a Commander and his Wife, they should be able to interview the Handmaid in question to verify this. Gilead does not want to open that can of worms.

Then there is the fact that at least some of the children smuggled to Canada have family there. If Hannah had been on that flight, the McKenzies would have a hard to arguing that they had more of a right to her than Luke.

The children can also potentially claim refugee status in their own right. The girls are at risk of being forced into marriages as children. Boys can expect to be conscripted into the army at an age when they would be considered child soldiers.

Canada bringing June across the border could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Given what June will have to say about Gilead, the Commanders also have a vested interest in silencing her, either by demanding her return, or perhaps by trying to cut a deal of sorts: they'll let Canada breaching the terms of the ceasefire by taking June out of Gilead slide, but in return, Canada has to keep her from speaking out against Gilead.

I hope that June does make it to Canada. It'll be a change and, frankly, she's more of a liability than an asset to the rebels and Mayday at this point.

  • Like 6
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Finally, June is out of Gilead - praise be! If the show contrives a plot for her to go back before the end of the season, I'll throw something at the TV.

How long are they going to keep us in suspense about Janine? I need to know NOW!

I loved Moira's girlfriend telling her that humanitarian missions aren't just about one person, but of course June is so special that the NGO ended up risking their entire mission for her.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

This was good in so many ways, mostly that I can't wait for next week!

So lovely to see Moira having to make such an impossible choice, and I don't think we've seen the last repercussions of that choice.

June's finally out of Gilead, at least for now.  No "almost made it" this time, Thank God.  

The rehab of Luke continues, and I'm glad they are making the effort this year.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

Wowza!

Samira Wiley was the MVP of this episode.  She was just outstanding throughout.

I hated how June felt like she had to apologize to Luke for not having Hannah.  "Yeah, sorry I was risking my life every day in an evil authoritarian society while you were across the border sipping lattes."  And did their meeting seem weird to you?  I guess I thought Luke would show more emotion.

 

 

Edited by Brn2bwild
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

Those scenes behind the fences were just chilling.

Yes, Moira did the "wrong" thing, but in a situation where there was no "right" thing.  I'm pretty sure I would have done the same, actually I know I would.

I can't wait for next week!  

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

Definitely on the shorter side this week. I'll be okay with that if they make it up somewhere in other episodes.

Samira rocked this episode. Just pure brilliance. It was an impossible choice for Moira, and I think only someone who knows what being a Handmaid is really like can truly understand. Yes, it's her best friend, but Moira sees this in a way the other's don't.  I could never be a leader in that situation, hell I can't even be a manager in a corporate world.

The fact that Moira didn't think it was a good idea for June to marry Luke shows that she's always had June's interests at heart. This was a nice way to show that in light of the decision. This whole episode had a very nice symmetry to it, for lack of a better word.

It was nice to see June react about Nicole when Moira brought her up. She's been so laser focused on Hannah, but she has another child that is hers, that she brought into the world all by herself. I'm more curious to see that reunion than the one with Luke. 

I'm definitely here to see June tear Serena a new one.

 

 

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

well fuck.

I want to end there but I feel a certain duty not to shitpost, so here are some 1:41 a.m. thoughts.

Oona's last gift to Moira...letting June stay despite it being the death of everything she has worked for so that Moira wouldn't have to live with having taken June to safety only to send her to her death.

Moira. Speaking facts from the jump. Probably right about Gilead using Hannah as a prop in June's execution. So beautiful and expressive. Good taste in pitchers. I wish she had someone to nurture her and relate to her. Like Emily. I ship it, fight me.

June's confusion and terror lifting for a second to ask after Nichole, and her happiness hearing she's ok. Luke and June really did do Annie dirty, but it's time to forgive, IMO.  I know she's a footnote but I hope Annie isn't dead or in the colonies for failure to conceive, but she probably is. 

No Gilead. No Lydia. No dark quiet rooms and red cloaks. No torture. How refreshing. I want it back next week, but how refreshing.

Edited by The Mighty Peanut
  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post

It would have all been a ludicrous tease if she didn't make it out.

Have Moira find her and then at one of the many points she could have not made it to Canada, she is dragged off the boat by Gilead soldiers or ridiculously gets on a small boat after their tugboad had been running for hours.

I can understand survivor's guilt, the prospect of her finally being free but not being able to bring their child along to freedom.  But they did this whole series of flashbacks just to show that Luke might throw her out if she couldn't give him a child?

The badass June would say "fuck him!" if he copped that attitude.

And these Hallmark images of them and the baby are like from a bad diaper commercial or something, how perfect was their life as young parents of a toddler.🤨

I guess for awhile they can have June in scenes with the Waterfords.  That was a winning formula for the show in the first couple of seasons.

It's good that they didn't go further down the GI June road, with her joining up with the Nighthawks and taking down Gilead one soldier at a time.

Still suspicious that they will find a way to get her captured by Gilead again or Canada doing a prisoner exchange or something like that, so she has to have more confrontations with Lydia or see Nick again.

Because if she becomes some kind of activist or advocate, giving speeches or trying to make things happen diplomatically, it's also going to be a different kind of show.  It won't be as dramatic as going through the horrors of dealing with the monsters in Gilead.  

So June may once again become a woman of action, not words or working through some kind of legal channels, to the extent that rational people could have some kind of legalistic relations with Gilead.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

inside episode 6  

ETA

This is mislabeled as a preview, it's not, it's an Inside the Episode on Vows.

Edited by Umbelina
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I had a hearty chuckle at the ending - June looking up, directly into the camera, as she stepped on Canadian soil. We haven’t seen THAT look before 🙄

  • Like 11
  • Laugh 9

Share this post


Link to post

The show knows we’re mad about June always getting special treatment, and they acknowledged it by…let me check…making sure we all know that she’s being stowed away while refugees are left locked up by the dock.  
 

June did need to escape.  I’ve believed this since season 1, and this just felt weird.  All I have to say is that I agree with all other posters who remarked that the boat should have dropped June off at another location in Canada.  Somewhere that would have given them plausible deniability.

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I hated how June felt like she had to apologize to Luke for not having Hannah.  "Yeah, sorry I was risking my life every day in an evil authoritarian society while you were across the border sipping lattes."  And did their meeting seem weird to you?  I guess I thought Luke would show more emotion.

I thought the emotion, or lack of it, that Luke showed was appropriate. To me, it looked like he was processing and digesting the moment because it’s an adjustment. Things are different. This is not the same June that he remembers when he made his way to Canada. It’s a moment would fill anyone with anxiety and Luke looked anxious, which I thought was appropriate.

  • Like 20

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, revbfc said:

June did need to escape.  I’ve believed this since season 1, and this just felt weird.  All I have to say is that I agree with all other posters who remarked that the boat should have dropped June off at another location in Canada.  Somewhere that would have given them plausible deniability.

Better still, keep June's arrival in Canada quiet for at least a few weeks, and then drop her off at a location on the border to be "found" by Canadian border patrol. The more distance (geographically and in terms of time) between June's arrival in Canada and the aid mission to Gilead, the better Canada's chances of denying that she was smuggled out by the aid team.

  

6 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I know she's a footnote but I hope Annie isn't dead or in the colonies for failure to conceive, but she probably is. 


Unfortunately for Annie, the Colonies seems a likely place for her to have ended up if she is still in Gilead. She can't remarry since, under Gilead's law, she is still married to Luke. Best case scenario for her is probably that she has family among the Econo-population with whom she can live. I doubt she'd have become an Aunt.

Edited by ReganX
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, AllyB said:

Oona was a massive hypocrite anyway. She encouraged Moira to come with her on her aid missions knowing Moira would have to travel under falsified papers as a Canadian citizen. A seasoned aid worker knows damn well that you can't bring a wanted person from a war zone back into that war zone. To Gilead, Moira is an escaped criminal. Her presence on that mission was just as damning to the organisation as June being on the ship. But Oona did it just so she could have her girlfriend with her.

I'm glad someone said it. Oona has no one to blame but herself bringing Moira along without having any real training and with being an actual refugee who could be under a death sentence in Gilead. Honestly she was already breaking the law. That Moira then did something dumbass to make it worse is the icing on the cake.

That Luke is suddenly being remembered as obsessed with having a baby suggests he's not going to be totally forgiving and show, you may not want to dwell there.

  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

That Luke is suddenly being remembered as obsessed with having a baby suggests he's not going to be totally forgiving and show, you may not want to dwell there.

It's odd that they would characterize Luke as obsessed with having a baby considering one of the flashbacks in Season 2, where June was shown to be using birth control after Hannah. Luke was incredulous that the pharmacy asked to see proof that he had signed off on it, and said that it was ridiculous. June was the one to suggest stopping. Is Luke supposed to have been obsessed with being a father but also content to be "one and done"?

  • Like 6
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post

I mean, honestly, if Luke wants to start griping about Hannah, then maybe Luke should head on back to Gilead and go get her.

  • Like 21

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I mean, honestly, if Luke wants to start griping about Hannah, then maybe Luke should head on back to Gilead and go get her.

I wonder how many cases there are of couples who are both in Canada but whose child is in Gilead. Is it possible that June and Luke are the first?

Might June and Luke be able to petition the Canadian government, or even the UN, to demand that Hannah be sent to them?

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I'm glad someone said it. Oona has no one to blame but herself bringing Moira along without having any real training and with being an actual refugee who could be under a death sentence in Gilead. Honestly she was already breaking the law. That Moira then did something dumbass to make it worse is the icing on the cake.

I also had trouble with the scene where they discuss whether to turn June in.  They must know, even without Moira telling them, that they would be sending June to her death.  I see people in that line of work, in the business of saving lives, not being so willing to sacrifice even one.  It seems more likely that their attitude would have been: now that June is with us, she's our responsibility, and we will try to protect her as best we can.  

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I also had trouble with the scene where they discuss whether to turn June in.  They must know, even without Moira telling them, that they would be sending June to her death.  I see people in that line of work, in the business of saving lives, not being so willing to sacrifice even one.  It seems more likely that their attitude would have been: now that June is with us, she's our responsibility, and we will try to protect her as best we can.  

It being debated bothered me. I would have seen it more as a case of "Moira shouldn't have brought June, but since she did, we will protect her."

  • Like 10
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I mean, honestly, if Luke wants to start griping about Hannah, then maybe Luke should head on back to Gilead and go get her.

I think the guilt should be equally his to bear. He also left Hannah behind.

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post

Well I stand corrected.  Last week I said I'd be annoyed because June wouldn't escape but she did.  I'm really glad to see this.  Also curious to see how she is going to react to Serena.  They're relationship always surprises me so I'm curious to see whether she'll try to help keep Serena in prison or help her.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I know I'm in the minority, but I hated this episode. There isn't enough acting skill in the world to make such dialogue, intended for scenery mastication, palatable. I try not to be too harsh in criticism. Writing dialogue well is really, really, difficult, which is why it so rarely happens. To my ears, however, the exchanges between characters in this episode sounded incredibly stilted. Everything was way too overwrought, without allowing the actors communicate much without a mountain of verbiage.

  • Like 5
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think Luke was overly concerned with having a child, he was happy when he and June were, but he made it pretty clear he wanted June, and the child issue was not why he left his wife.

June was pretty delusional, mixing past with present after that bombing.  It was in her mind that Luke would be angry with her that she didn't get Hannah out.  Luke, was it last episode?  Was more angry with himself for all of the times he failed his wife and daughter, not leaving when June asked him too, losing them in the woods, all of it.

I went back and forth about June gearing herself up to take that final step off the ramp into Canada, and freedom.  In the end, I liked it, because it's been so long for her, and of course it was a huge moment for her to finally be out of Gilead.  

Oona though has left me with many doubts.  She thinks Canada will shut down all aid now?  They've apparently violated some rule about not rescuing Gilead people?  That might be a new rule, or it might apply only to "during humanitarian aid" deliveries.  Is Canada quaking in it's boots now because of the Gilead threats and pressure to give all the children back?  It's taking me back to @mamadrama's post last week about following those guidelines.

Not only did the mission Oona was in charge of apparently break some rule, they rescued the most famous of the handmaids, the one who thought up and organized the escape of 9 Martha's and 86 children.  That's probably going to be a political nightmare for Canada.

I don't think June's going to have the same experience Moira, Emily, or even Luke had when they got there.  This (for Canada) would be more like Canada providing a safe haven for Bin Laden during the years after 9-11.  June's a terrorist, the most visible terrorist they have in Gilead right now, and Canada was already on the brink of a war they don't want with Gilead.

Yay though!  We have real movement in the story!  I'm thrilled with this one.

Edited by Umbelina
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

Really good episode and OMG I'm so relieved it wasn't another bait and switch on June escaping to Canada. I felt like the show was trolling us when June was trying to get in that stupid life boat. 

As it turned out, that scene finally allowed June to express some of the reasons beyond "I have to save my child" that she was so fixed on staying until she had Hannah.  It was, of course, largely to save Hannah for Hannah's sake.  But there was also an overwhelming inability to accept failing her daughter and Luke if she escaped without bringing Hannah.  That makes a lot of sense and is just fucking tragic. June was experiencing a form of survivor's guilt (even pre-successful escape) and deep shame at failing her family all rolled into one. 

Edited by RachelKM
  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, RachelKM said:

I felt like the show was trolling us when June was trying to get in that stupid life boat. 

You know, I was thinking I would probably try to do the same thing, get in a boat and try to make it to shore.

June wasn't in any shape to do that really, she's not in her right mind, and definitely has, at the very least, a concussion.  

Still, I would have felt so guilty (even if I were not drifting in and out of reality, past/present all a jumble.)  That vote on the ship, knowing that if they rescued me those left behind wouldn't get aid again, it would kill me.  When June told them to just send her back, I got it.

At the same time, when Moira said that if June gets in the boat, she's going with her?  I also completely understood.  I don't think either of them were over the top with that.

In those scenes?  It was very easy to step into both pairs of shoes.  

As far as that rather large ship getting closer to shore and dropping both or one of them off to "escape to Canada on their own?"  I don't think that would have made any difference.  June was not capable right then, and even if one or both did?  Canada would recognize the boat and know what happened.  I suppose someone could have taken June to shore and just dumped her, returning the boat, but even so?  June suddenly showing up on the same shore that the humanitarian aid boat was cruising past at the same time?  Yeah, not a cover.  Then there is the issue that June's wasn't in her right mind, and was injured, so dumping her and just hoping she survived to make it somewhere?  Not a great plan either.

June's idea that she snuck on board seems plausible, and they might even use that in the next episode, who knows?  I don't think it will be enough.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, ReganX said:

It's odd that they would characterize Luke as obsessed with having a baby considering one of the flashbacks in Season 2, where June was shown to be using birth control after Hannah. Luke was incredulous that the pharmacy asked to see proof that he had signed off on it, and said that it was ridiculous. June was the one to suggest stopping. Is Luke supposed to have been obsessed with being a father but also content to be "one and done"?

I think that was just part of June's delusions after the head injury. Great memory on that birth control scene though!

6 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I mean, honestly, if Luke wants to start griping about Hannah, then maybe Luke should head on back to Gilead and go get her.

I'd love to see that!  Luke's languished in Canada long enough.  I'm pretty sure the actor would love it too.

Just thought of Mockingjay.

Join. The. Fight!

5 hours ago, ReganX said:

I wonder how many cases there are of couples who are both in Canada but whose child is in Gilead. Is it possible that June and Luke are the first?

Might June and Luke be able to petition the Canadian government, or even the UN, to demand that Hannah be sent to them?

It's hard to say, but I'd guess there would be a few at least.

Luke's been petitioning everyone he can think of for years.  We saw that the U.N. is treading carefully as far as Gilead in other episodes.

4 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I think the guilt should be equally his to bear. He also left Hannah behind.

I'm glad we had that earlier episode with Luke beating himself up about that, he already does feel that guilt, not just for Hannah, but also for June.

3 hours ago, ally8620000 said:

Well I stand corrected.  Last week I said I'd be annoyed because June wouldn't escape but she did.  I'm really glad to see this.  Also curious to see how she is going to react to Serena.  They're relationship always surprises me so I'm curious to see whether she'll try to help keep Serena in prison or help her.

June with Serena, and hopefully with Fred too?  Will be great I hope!  Come on writers, make those count!

I loved Rita initially calling them sir and ma'am, it just seemed right, and she was so amazing in those scenes, the lady always, the put downs real, but somehow dignified and calm at the same time.  They never took that from her.

I'm ready to see some hard truths hit them though, and not in a gentle voice this time!

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

19 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I'm glad we had that earlier episode with Luke beating himself up about that, he already does feel that guilt, not just for Hannah, but also for June.

Yes, I agree. I've enjoyed his character development when we've gotten it.  His situation is also awful.  He got out.  But he's had to live with what he feels was failing his wife and his daughter.  But there is also a layer of resentment against June for refusing opportunities to make it out tempered by guilt for being angry with someone who has suffered and continues to suffer.  But I'm sure there is a part of him that, while proud of June's role in the Angel Flight, was hurt and angry she wasn't on the plane too. 

It seems like most people who made it to Canada are dealing combinations of post traumatic stress and survivor's guilt.  But, as is frequently true, the people who are in the midst of casting blame on themselves for not doing the impossible fairly readily extend to others the grace they can't seem to grant themselves.

Luke may blame himself, but June was just happy he got out alive.  Same with Moira.  She spent the last two years feeling guilty for leaving June behind.  But again, June's focus was on relief that Moira made it to Canada. Now June is riddled with guilt for "failing" Hannah and, by extension, Luke and can't see that she 1) has done everything reasonable and many things unreasonable in attempts to protect and save Hannah and that 2) sacrificing herself to a likely losing effort (her odds are actually better from Canada) is not right or necessary. 

Edited by RachelKM · Reason: Typos
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

But there is also a layer of resentment against June for refusing opportunities to make it out tempered by guilt for being angry with someone who has suffered and continues to suffer.  But I'm sure there is a part of him that, while proud of June's role in the Angel Flight, was hurt and angry she wasn't one the plane too. 

Very true.

Had June got on that plane though?  It would have been shot down, or shot up before it was airborne, like the other plane she was supposed to escape on.  She planned to get on the plane, as did the other handmaids with her.  June ran to draw fire and attention from the plane.  She had no idea the other handmaids followed her until she came to.

6 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

He got out.  But he's had to live with what he feels was failing his wife and his daughter. 

Oh I think guilt is a wasted emotion but if there was ever someone who deserves to feel it?  It's Luke.  June begged him to leave when they took her job and money away.  He thought it was no big deal that her money was transferred to him.  He didn't listen or act until it was far too late.

7 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

It seems like most people who made it to Canada are dealing combinations of post traumatic stress and survivor's guilt.  But, as is frequently true, the people who are in the midst of casting blame on themselves for not doing the impossible fairly readily extend to others the grace the can't seem to grant themselves.

Yes, the show's done a pretty good job of showing that well.  I wonder what happened to that silent girl Luke and Moira took in?  Hopefully off in Canada being happy somewhere, but with regrets like most survivors.

Very well said.  Loved your whole post!

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Had June got on that plane though?  It would have been shot down, or shot up before it was airborne, like the other plane she was supposed to escape on.  She planned to get on the plane, as did the other handmaids with her.  June ran to draw fire and attention from the plane.  She had no idea the other handmaids followed her until she came to.

Yes, that's true. But hurt and anger are rarely rational.  And that was the second time June made the decision not to complete an escape. 

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

June begged him to leave when they took her job and money away.  He thought it was no big deal that her money was transferred to him.  He didn't listen or act until it was far too late.

Well, yeah. He should regret that and accept some blame.  But at the same time, even Emily and her wife waited too long.  And he also castigated himself for getting separated from June and Hannah in the woods.

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Very well said.  Loved your whole post!

Thanks, love. 

Edited by RachelKM
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, ReganX said:

I wonder how many cases there are of couples who are both in Canada but whose child is in Gilead. Is it possible that June and Luke are the first?

Might June and Luke be able to petition the Canadian government, or even the UN, to demand that Hannah be sent to them?

I think if June wasn't "June Osborne of the Angel Flight" and had just escaped Gilead without that baggage, they'd actually have a good case. But since she's ALSO snatching children from their families, I can see everyone, June and Luke included, not wanting to go there.

 

10 hours ago, ReganX said:

Better still, keep June's arrival in Canada quiet for at least a few weeks, and then drop her off at a location on the border to be "found" by Canadian border patrol. The more distance (geographically and in terms of time) between June's arrival in Canada and the aid mission to Gilead, the better Canada's chances of denying that she was smuggled out by the aid team.

Medically I don't think June is well enough for that. It's also honestly just too many people to keep it a secret. Better for the NGO to just admit that June "snuck on board and hid" and when they discovered her AFTER the inspection, they couldn't very well head back to Gilead to deport her. Really, its a pretty sloppy organization anyway - Moira wasn't a Canadian citizen and was there under false papers and Oona damn well knew it. Technically *Moira* was in severe risk on this little trot to Chicago. 

 

7 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I also had trouble with the scene where they discuss whether to turn June in.  They must know, even without Moira telling them, that they would be sending June to her death.  I see people in that line of work, in the business of saving lives, not being so willing to sacrifice even one.  It seems more likely that their attitude would have been: now that June is with us, she's our responsibility, and we will try to protect her as best we can.  

They'd be creating a diplomatic incident and would likely result in no more aid missions. If this aid mission kept 100 people alive who would have died, then it becomes a numbers game - saving June may mean no more missions at all and all the people who might be helped die. It was ugly but very real, I thought. And yes, I think they all understood that June was looking at a death sentence. 

 

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I hated this episode. There isn't enough acting skill in the world to make such dialogue, intended for scenery mastication, palatable. I try not to be too harsh in criticism. Writing dialogue well is really, really, difficult, which is why it so rarely happens. To my ears, however, the exchanges between characters in this episode sounded incredibly stilted. Everything was way too overwrought, without allowing the actors communicate much without a mountain of verbiage.

I get why you would. I did like the episode a lot - mostly because finally June has escaped. 

But... once she was on the boat, I think we all knew the crew was going to find a way to not send her to her death and I might have enjoyed this having more movement forward. 

  • Like 3
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

The beginning recap was way too long. They went back from Nightshade all the way to Chicago. Totally unnecessary.

Goddamn Moira and June in the back of that jeep gave me all the feels. 
Regardless of the bombing, whoever organized this "Red Cross" thing isn't qualified to organize shit.  Damn, the Americans have had field hospitals in war zones and this was a slap dash mom&pop show.  I felt for those people being left there. They were Americans who needed medical aid and asylum.

I hope Moira breaks up with Oona over this and that guy on the boat is an ass. This isn't some random Jane Doe. This is June Osborne. Public enemy number 1 in Gilead. She won't be just killed. They will make an example of her on Gilead television with a public execution.  Hope random dude thought about that and having that on his conscious. Oona's speech about making hard decisions is utter bullcrap.


June in Canada actually works in Gilead's favour. Alive and in Canada she can do some damage but dead - really dead and shown to people she's dead, June becomes a martyr. And it's very difficult to fight a ghost of a  martyr. Even in Gilead.

I'm confused on the flashbacks. I thought Luke left his wife because June was already pregnant. Now show is saying he left Annie cause he wanted kids with June.  Yeah show, I am not buying this. Go sell it to someone else.

The episode was filler at best. They had to get June from point A to point B.  They could have included the part where the guards meet her to ask her if she is in danger and seeking asylum.  It would have spiced it up a bit. With the fact that recap was almost 5 minutes and usually episode runs about 1 hour and 20 mins with commercials  - I feel we were greatly cheated in storyline. 

  • Like 6
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, ReganX said:

I wonder how many cases there are of couples who are both in Canada but whose child is in Gilead. Is it possible that June and Luke are the first?

We know of at least one - the father of that one little girl they focused on when the plane of kids got out (though who knows where her mother is). 

This episode bored me like no other. We did need Moira and her girlfriend, and Moira and June to have the same conversation over and over and over again for 45 minutes. 

Also as someone who watched it on TV, this episode was short because the "previously on" section went until 9:05, it was insane how many clips they showed before the actual episode. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

My thoughts on the route the boat took...  Someone above posted the map of the Great Lakes, and the long route to go from Chicago to Toronto.  But, do we actually know they disembarked in Toronto?  I don't recall anyone saying it, just "Canada".  It makes more sense that the boat left from a port much closer to Chicago.  Moira and Oona, and later Luke, just flew to that port from Toronto.  Also, the dock looked like a very remote/rural dock, not a city dock or commercial port.

What surprised me about the debate on the ship on whether or not to turn June in is that no one considered the most likely effect of doing just that...  turn June in, yes, June will die a horrible death.  But, as soon as all the Gilead soldiers are off that boat, that boat would be blown to smithereens.   There is no way Gilead would allow the boat or any of its passengers to survive.  They'd claim it was a gas explosion or something like that.  Or maybe just own up to it - after all, they did end the cease fire early just to kill people who were out looking for aid.  That would have been a more interesting discussion.

I agree with everyone above saying they could have easily taken June to another location and/or hid her for a few weeks to take the focus off the aid group.  I suppose that's still possible, but unlikely.

One thing I've never understood about oppressive regimes is their refusal to let people who want to leave leave.  It's certainly the cheaper option instead of imprisoning them, which means you have to house and feed them, and use crucial manpower to guard them.  Even capturing them to execute them is a waste of resources that could be used elsewhere.  Yeah, I know, it's a power thing.  But just stupid, especially for a financially struggling country.

 

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, greekmom said:

I hope Moira breaks up with Oona over this and that guy on the boat is an ass. This isn't some random Jane Doe. This is June Osborne. Public enemy number 1 in Gilead. She won't be just killed. They will make an example of her on Gilead television with a public execution.  Hope random dude thought about that and having that on his conscious. Oona's speech about making hard decisions is utter bullcrap.

The way Oona acted, you'd almost think June was Moira's former lover.  She was rigid, emotional, and weirdly excited when that one guy on the boat said they should turn June in.  I get that June being there potentially jeopardized future missions, but it took 30 seconds for Oona to realize there could be another way (make June blend in).  Yet for a while she didn't even seem to want to consider the possibility.  Did she ever consider that even if they turned June in, they could still be punished?

Edited by Brn2bwild
  • Like 8
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size