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S01.E05: Hanged

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3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

When you have Hypno Guy in your crew, pretty much anything is possible.

When it comes to executing plans, but first they need to be drafted. And do we know how long his spells hold and if people can remember what happened afterwards?

Btw. the actor looked so familiar to me but I could never place him. Checked with IMDB - that's Mark Benton, i.e. Frank Hathaway from Shakespeare & Hathaway!

Edited by MissLucas
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8 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

When Effie was talking about the coat I thought to myself, her voice sounds like the actress who plays Maladie but then I quickly dismissed it as having ears not exposed to British accents all day every day and thought nothing more of it. I should have listened to my ears.

I honestly thought the guy was dead, was it meant to be shocking a reveal that he lived (and it was explained in the 'missing' episode) or did I miss something from the actual previous episode that indicated he was alive?

Last weeks ep had Amalia in the bar and the reason was she was getting info from violin dude about walk on water dude (Odium?) -- he was recuperating at his grandmothers in some attic or something -- they mentioned a place == it sounded Victorian English. Like the "narrows"

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I don’t see a speculation thread, but since it involves this episode I’m going to post my probably not true theory.

I think Penance being there may come back to bite her. She manipulates energy. The attack used energy. She was there trying to rescue Maladie. Then she burned her hand when she was shocked by what will be evidence.  Mundi knows it wasn’t her, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets overruled by more powerful men. Massen seems to really not like that she has her turn.

I wouldn’t be dumb enough to mess with Amalia’s BFF though, but I can’t say the same for a group of men that probably believe they’re invisible. 

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On 5/10/2021 at 3:05 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Poor Augie had a hell of an episode!  First, he gets embarrassed by his sister at lunch.  Then he's accused of using his bird powers for pervy reasons.  But once he seems clear of that, the same person also gets upset that he isn't checking her out more.  And then it all ends with him siding with the other team, so date night will likely be put on hold for a while.

I know what to expect with a HBO show, but seeing that this episode was directed by Whedon himself did make me question the Amalia/Cousens sex scene.  I just hope Laura Donnelly was comfortable with the nudity that was shown.

Still liked the episode, but it did feel kind of rushed and like there was a missing episode somewhere.  I do wonder if some stuff ended up getting scaled down or cut to finish this first part in six episodes.

I might be in the minority, but I kind of hated the scene with Penance and Augie actually.  I thought her being suspicious of the bird was a little funny, but him denying it and her first being relieved and then pissed off he wasn't peaking, pissed me off.  It had shades of "women be crazy." And you can't ever figure out what they want.  It was also painfully Whendon.  I mentioned in another post, but I'm getting sick of how Whendon this show is.  I used to like him and his style of humor, but honestly as I've both aged and more things have been relieved about him, I can see his thinly veiled misogyny in it.  And that particular scene seemed like a quintessential example of it.  Maybe I'm just over thinking it...

I don't really have strong feeling about nudity in shows.  Seeing nude people doesn't bother me, nor do I find it particularly titillating.  But that sex scene came out of now where even by HBO sexposition standards.  It really did seem like, "Hey we forgot we're on HBO, we should add a sex scene!"  Honestly, I sometimes feel that way even with the language in this show.  Occasionally the "f*cks" sound like they're added in to meet some sort of profanity quota.  Language could be used to good effect like having very proper Penance drop the f-word for dramatic effect, but sometimes it seems like they just throw it in because they can and they haven't said it in X amount of minutes.

22 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, that was all over the place. I wonder if the real world plague left its first noticeable impact here.

First things first: one of the iron rules of mystery writing is that your main characters should not know things that the readers don't. There are exceptions though - but I think the show pushed the principle her to the limit and beyond. Amalia having secrets was okay, it made her character more intriguing, and I was also okay with Penance and maybe Doc knowing more than we do (though that's not clearly established in-show). But having the whole orphanage blab about the Gelati (you don't deserve better show) without letting us know what had been said after Primrose had read out Myrtle's translation is a cheap cop-out and annoying.

 

I couldn't agree more.  There's a fine line between having a character be mysterious and hinting at secrets about them and making the audience feel like their missing something.  At the start I thought they did a good job of hinting with Amalia lines like, "This isn't my face."  That makes her intriguing but doesn't make me feel like I've missed something.

But now, for this show that line was about seven miles back.  I really felt like I had fallen asleep and missed a couple scenes or even an entire episode.  It would have been  one thing to the people at the orphanage have some inkling that Amalia isn't exactly what she seems or even for Penance or Doc to have a pretty good idea (although I maintain that while Penance would keep True's secrets, there's no way she wouldn't ask questions while they were alone and we've seen them alone plenty) what's going on with her.  It's entirely another thing to name drop something the audience has never heard of and make it seem like the characters have an idea what it means.

This all could have very easily been fixed by having a scene of True telling everyone that's she's not quite like them, and while she can't fully explain it, she needs them to trust her.  As it was presented in the show, it just seems like there were missing pages in the script.

I also might me in the minority, but I would have been okay if this show never explained why the turns happened.  I would have been perfectly happy if it had just remained a mysterious event with no explanation throughout the run of the show.  I really would have been happy to watch a show that was completely about how touched people now how to fit into the world and True and Adair fighting for acceptance and to keep the touched safe, while people like Massen fight to push them into the shadows.  Since the end of the first episode, I'm not sure how I've felt about the spaceship (if that is what it is) and it as the reason for the turns.  I still don't.  But this weirdly disjointed episode didn't make me more excited for it. 

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2 hours ago, Proclone said:

Occasionally the "f*cks" sound like they're added in to meet some sort of profanity quota.  Language could be used to good effect like having very proper Penance drop the f-word for dramatic effect, but sometimes it seems like they just throw it in because they can and they haven't said it in X amount of minutes.

I must be really desensitized because I haven't noted an excessive use of profanity.  lol

The whole Galanthi thing doesn't really bother me either. I read The Malazan Book of the Fallen series where the author drops readers in the deep end of the pool without so much as a "hello" and a pretty important magical element isn't explained until like book five or something (in a ten book series).  By then readers have pretty much pieced it together.  So this show barely registers on my frustration meter. 

Edited by rove4
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28 minutes ago, rove4 said:

I must be really desensitized because I haven't noted an excessive use of profanity.  lol

 

It may also be because most of the use of "fuck" is as a verb rather than as a standard curse word almost everybody and their grandma uses today.   I've read my share of Victorian porn and that's generally how the act is described in that.  How did people in polite society refer to sex?  If it was ever referred to in polite society.   When Swann was having his fun and games with the one girl in his club, note that he asked her if she was "spending"  - that was the Victorian term for having an orgasm (at least in the porn).  

I think part of noticing the f word also is when Amalia uses it - here she is - looks very upright and proper but she uses the word in it's correct use and I think it comes across as a bit shocking, especially as she is so matter of fact about it.  

I don't watch many HBO dramas (right now its this one and Mare of Eastport) so I had no idea that graphic sex was such a big part of HBO shows.   The opening scene of this episode was really kind of over the top and just seemed an excuse to put some hot action on screen.  I guess that actors today have to be fairly exhibitionistic if they expect to get jobs.  It's amazing to me how old movies got their point across and could be steamy without being something where you have to chase the kids out of the room when you're watching it.   The hint of sex and using your imagination can be a lot sexier than what we're used to watching today. 

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7 hours ago, rove4 said:

I must be really desensitized because I haven't noted an excessive use of profanity.  lol

The whole Galanthi thing doesn't really bother me either. I read The Malazan Book of the Fallen series where the author drops readers in the deep end of the pool without so much as a "hello" and a pretty important magical element isn't explained until like book five or something (in a ten book series).  By then readers have pretty much pieced it together.  So this show barely registers on my frustration meter. 

I don't think the profanity is excessive, just that it often seems out of place.  It was almost as if the show was written for a network with different standards and then they got picked up by HBO and decided to randomly sprinkle it in.  I have no problems with profanity (one of my favorite all time shows is Deadwood).  I just don't think that how it's used in this always sounds organic.  Actually I think it would work better if they used more profanity.  As of now it's used rarely enough in the show that it should be used for effect, but it's often just put in throw away lines.  Either have the characters curse regularly or have them only really use it when trying to make a dramatic point.

I don't really mind being dropped into a world and sort of figuring it out as the story unfolds.  But it needs to make sense.  If Amalia had spoken about the Galanthi since episode one, I have would have way less of an issue with it, even if it wasn't fully explained.  It would mean that it was a planned  part of the story.  In this case, the show has switched from implying that no one except Maladie (and maybe True) had any idea what caused the turns, to now saying that everyone at the orphanage at least knows that Amalia from Victorian England and has something to do with the creation of the touched.  It's less being dropped in the deep end of the pool and more a bait and switch.  And I think it's poor story telling.

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This is HBO and HBO is known for their nudity (a major draw for Game of Thrones), the first three episodes was just random extras, now they are showing the main characters. First Maladie, then Amalia, and I am guessing Penance will be next, unless Bonfire Annie is willing to steam it up with Jack Be Nimble, Jack Be Quick.

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12 hours ago, Stuffy said:

I don’t see a speculation thread, but since it involves this episode I’m going to post my probably not true theory.

I think Penance being there may come back to bite her. She manipulates energy. The attack used energy. She was there trying to rescue Maladie. Then she burned her hand when she was shocked by what will be evidence.  Mundi knows it wasn’t her, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets overruled by more powerful men. Massen seems to really not like that she has her turn.

I wouldn’t be dumb enough to mess with Amalia’s BFF though, but I can’t say the same for a group of men that probably believe they’re invisible. 

YES. I was thinking the exact same thing. Massen doesn't like that Penance's turn makes her a brilliant inventor. Can't have little ladies upstaging mediocre men, can we? Framing Penance does two things. First, it kneecaps a woman whose turn makes her a threat to men in power like Massen and his League of Ordinary White Men. Two, it's a way to hurt True. With Maladie behind things, it makes sense that she'd want to hit True where it hurts, and the best way to do that is through Penance. 

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4 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

YES. I was thinking the exact same thing. Massen doesn't like that Penance's turn makes her a brilliant inventor. Can't have little ladies upstaging mediocre men, can we? 

Don't forget his deep-seated hatred for electricity*! Another catalyst for change. Penance hits two boxes on his hate list at once.

*Makes me wonder if Miss Massen's Turn might be something in that field.

Edited by MissLucas
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Penance is also uneducated AND Irish! Makes me wish he had a son she could date just to see him fume about it.

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19 hours ago, rove4 said:

I must be really desensitized because I haven't noted an excessive use of profanity.  lol

The whole Galanthi thing doesn't really bother me either. I read The Malazan Book of the Fallen series where the author drops readers in the deep end of the pool without so much as a "hello" and a pretty important magical element isn't explained until like book five or something (in a ten book series).  By then readers have pretty much pieced it together.  So this show barely registers on my frustration meter. 

**raises hand!

Yes! This show seems to do a lot of backward and forward timey wimey things. I figure they'll explain -- or not -- at some point. Since I am enjoying the show I am not stressed about it.

Edited by taanja
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On 5/12/2021 at 1:53 AM, ZeeEnnui said:

YES. I was thinking the exact same thing. Massen doesn't like that Penance's turn makes her a brilliant inventor. Can't have little ladies upstaging mediocre men, can we? Framing Penance does two things. First, it kneecaps a woman whose turn makes her a threat to men in power like Massen and his League of Ordinary White Men. Two, it's a way to hurt True. With Maladie behind things, it makes sense that she'd want to hit True where it hurts, and the best way to do that is through Penance. 

I rewatched the series (ep 1 - 5) (it all makes more sense back to back instead of the separation of a week in-between) anyway -- Penance going to try to rescue Maladie from hanging is totally going to come back to bite her in the ass!

When she first met Massen she told how she "see's' electricity and all those people at the hanging were electrocuted. Penance is gonna get blamed for that! At least that is my speculation.

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14 minutes ago, taanja said:

I rewatched the series (ep 1 - 5) (it all makes more sense back to back instead of the separation of a week in-between)

I was thinking that this show might best be viewed in a binge format. Because once a month had gone by, I’d forgotten about the dead body in the first episode, the guy who was one of Maladie’s minions and the touch fan girl with the cutoff toes.

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Does anyone have a guess what Penance's full plan was going to be?  Were they going to "balloon" Maladie out of the town square?  I think that was an inflatable balloon that the kid didn't deploy?  It would have been nice to see or hear a dry run.  (I fear that keeping the audience in the dark is being mistaken for intrigue with this show)

Whatever the plan, and no matter how successful, there were always going to be terrible circumstances for the Touched.  Now, add in Maladies electrocution plan, and that is a hot mess (pun intended).  I wonder if Maladie appreciated the attempt to save her.  

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4 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Does anyone have a guess what Penance's full plan was going to be?  Were they going to "balloon" Maladie out of the town square?  I think that was an inflatable balloon that the kid didn't deploy? 

It actually did deploy halfway IIRC when he took the jacket off the lever. I assume Massen will have the vehicle confiscated and used as evidence against Penance. 

And yes, a dry run would have been appreciated. Not just for the immediate rescue but what her plan was for dealing with the aftermath. I don't think she had one.

Edited by MissLucas
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13 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Does anyone have a guess what Penance's full plan was going to be?  Were they going to "balloon" Maladie out of the town square?  I think that was an inflatable balloon that the kid didn't deploy?  It would have been nice to see or hear a dry run.  (I fear that keeping the audience in the dark is being mistaken for intrigue with this show)

Whatever the plan, and no matter how successful, there were always going to be terrible circumstances for the Touched.  Now, add in Maladies electrocution plan, and that is a hot mess (pun intended).  I wonder if Maladie appreciated the attempt to save her.  

I think we saw most of it.

1. Take out the snipers

2. Have Jack throw out platforms for the one woman (I don't know if we have been given her name or her turn) so she could get down to the gallows.

3. Free Maladie and have her follow woman back to the rooftop.

4. Deploy balloon at the appropriate time.

5. Maladie, Jack and other woman escape in balloon to parts out of London.

6. Maladie is apparently so moved by the rescue attempt that she does not kill Jack or other woman.

7. The Good Touched hope Maladie in fact changes her serial-killer ways and either lets her go in the wild or keeps her in some place that is not the Orphanage.

Parts 6 and 7 of the plan are pretty naive. And because Maladie happened to use an electricity trap to kill loads of people, and because Penance no doubt was spotted at the attempted execution, no doubt she will be accused of being in league with her.

Hopefully Maladie will spare Hypno Guy to help her out with an alibi. Or it's possible that Augie will lie and provide her with one that paints them as scandalous lovers or something.

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4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

6. Maladie is apparently so moved by the rescue attempt that she does not kill Jack or other woman.

 

Maladie dressed as reporter lady (Effie Boyle/Doyle) saved Harriet from being trampled to death. She also seemed to notice that Penance/the touched were trying to rescue her. 

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2 hours ago, taanja said:

Maladie dressed as reporter lady (Effie Boyle/Doyle) saved Harriet from being trampled to death. She also seemed to notice that Penance/the touched were trying to rescue her. 

True, but that's a different sort of thing from Maladie going along quietly once after the Good Guys who rescued her. She would have a potential incentive to kill her rescuers because they could provide a lead as to her whereabouts. Whereas she has no particular incentive to have Harriet die.

The rescue attempt brings to mind the old saw about the frog and the scorpion/the woman and the snake. They would have known damn well what Maladie was when they took her in.

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They could have easily ended the last ep with Amalia saying the Galanthi. It would have fit the scene and kept it from seeming so random this ep.

Speaking of random, the sex scene at the beginning was sudden but it was hardly shocking. Amalia made clear a couple of eps ago that she was willing, and Horatio certainly never seemed over her. I do think they have chemistry but I've never found it hot when a man wraps his hands around the woman's throat (second scene).

The old white guy committee always seems about two seconds away from eating their own. Massen seems to be stuck on the same basic idea- cause chaos. It has hardly been successful but I suppose that's his arrogance. If he was finally successful, he should thank Penance. 

I liked the whole scene in the courtyard. It was interesting hearing their discussion. Scenes like that give all the touched more space to show their personalities and allow other viewpoints.

Seeing Swann coming to Mundi for help was a refreshing change of pace for them, but I still can't stand Swann.

What was with the scars on Penance's back? I actually felt bad for Augie in their conversation right after. Penance was being ridiculous.

Overall Penance was idiotic this ep. I could have forgiven her spiel about forgiving Lucy and being afraid of making weapons but it led to the madness that was rescuing Maladie. I understand that she felt Maladie was being unfairly treated for being touched but come on. Amalia's perspective was indisputable there. And what were they supposed to do with her after they rescued her? Let her go? Put her on a boat like Lucy and let her inflict her terror somewhere else? I also didn't think her speech was cute though it was obviously supposed to be (I'm sweating!). Her self-satisfied little smile when people started to back her made me glad to see Augie go to Amalia and wipe it off. Plus beyond all that, it meant that Amalia had to send people with Penance just to keep her dumb ass alive. Sign of a brilliant plan, right there.

I did like Amalia's line at least- "I can't compel anyone to stay with me but that's-that's mental. Don't do that."

The stampede was the scariest part of the episode for me.

So Lavinia was after a cure too. She seems to have a lot of guilt about it all. Or maybe it's just fear? The stress of it all giving her the headaches? It's interesting that she thinks the Galanthi is causing their problems, like it's poisoning the city.

Edited by l star
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