S19.E16: Bob Costas; Nicholas Kristof; James Carville

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Guests: Bob Costas, Nicholas Kristof, James Carville

Original air date 2021.05.28

Show delayed due to Bill's positive covid test.  Please don't tell Bill you're praying for him; his head will explode and it won't be from covid.

[tessaray]

I enjoyed watching James Carville laugh.  (It would have been even better if Bill had let him get a word in edgewise.)

[DB in CMH]

Woke woke woke woke. WOKE!

Enough, Bill.

[iMonrey]

This was frustrating. Bill was on the right track sounding the alarm about election rigging. Neither panelist had much of an answer to it. Nicholas Kristof parroted the party line about enacting policies that benefit Americans. That does nothing to address voter suppression and naked power grabs. As for James Carville, I rarely understand what the hell that living cartoon is saying. 

Unfortunately, Bill had to pivot back to his favorite stomping ground, wokeness. Which completely undercuts his first point. It wouldn't matter if Democrats stopped being "woke" tomorrow and everyone voted for them because of the aforementioned naked power grabs and election rigging.

[aghst]

That extended rant about Israel was something.  He's pulling a Dennis Miller.

You could tell Kristof was biting his tongue, didn't want to get into a big argument with him.

Kristof pointed out the settlements, which make any kind of two state deal impossible now.  He also mentioned Palestinians being evicted out of East Jerusalem neighborhoods, though it's not clear if Bill understood the reference, after he showed a map of the proposed 2 state deal and claimed that if Arafat had agreed, the Palestinians would be in East Jerusalem now.

Of course the fact that Bella Hadid had weighed in on this latest round of violence on IG probably triggered Bill as another woke social media campaign.  What he didn't mention is that Israeli social influencers did the same thing in support of Israeli actions.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-instagram-influencers-took-on-bella-and-gigi-hadid-guess-who-won-1.9850795

 

[izabella]

Bill also failed to mention the Israeli blockade which doesn't allow for water and other supplies to go into Gaza, making it an open air prison for Palestinians.

[tessaray]

It's been a while since Bill has ranted about Israel. I always find it odd, considering his normal anti-religious take on most things. 

[Miss Slay]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

Of course the fact that Bella Hadid had weighed in on this latest round of violence on IG probably triggered Bill as another woke social media campaign.  What he didn't mention is that Israeli social influencers did the same thing in support of Israeli actions.

 

He also failed to mention that Bella Hadid is Palestinian.

[arachne]

18 hours ago, tessaray said:

It's been a while since Bill has ranted about Israel. I always find it odd, considering his normal anti-religious take on most things. 

And he uses Judeo-Christian scripture to show that Jews were there first. If you really want to go that route, it was Canaanite pagans who first settled Palestine. But I doubt there's any of them left. 

[Milburn Stone]

18 hours ago, tessaray said:

It's been a while since Bill has ranted about Israel. I always find it odd, considering his normal anti-religious take on most things. 

But of course, one can support the Jewish people's right to a homeland without being Jewish. Just as one can support the Palestinian people's right to a homeland without being Muslim.

[iMonrey]

Quote

And he uses Judeo-Christian scripture to show that Jews were there first.

I know. It's so odd. Also, by that logic, Native Americans should be bombing the shit out of us.

[izabella]

19 hours ago, tessaray said:

It's been a while since Bill has ranted about Israel. I always find it odd, considering his normal anti-religious take on most things. 

I think it's because "Jewish" is about a religion, a race, and a nationality.  He may be taking this personally because he identifies with the race part, rather than the religion part.  But, who knows?  He takes a lot of things personally and gets on his soapbox about it, repeatedly, like the time Berkeley cancelled his appearance and now he can't stop bringing up so-called cancel culture and wokeness despite those being right wing talking points.

[tessaray]

49 minutes ago, izabella said:

I He takes a lot of things personally and gets on his soapbox about it, repeatedly, like the time Berkeley cancelled his appearance and now he can't stop bringing up so-called cancel culture and wokeness despite those being right wing talking points.

I think this is why I find it jarring, because most of the strident, unquestioning, pro-Israel people I know personally (in the Midwest) are Evangelical conservatives. 

The Israeli/Palestinian situation has frustrated the world's smartest people. I feel like Bill doesn't get nuance anymore. 

[RealHousewife]

I'm not normally the most negative about Bill on here, but even I am enjoying him less and less. I've seen him live, and I'd never do that again. I don't know if it's because I've been a fan of his for so long that I'm having a hard time quitting his show or what. I still see that he's a good conversationalist and moderator, but honestly, there are people a fraction his age on YouTube who have more knowledge than him. If I want some politics with humor mixed in, there are other options for that as well. 

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I'm not normally the most negative about Bill on here, but even I am enjoying him less and less. I've seen him live, and I'd never do that again. I don't know if it's because I've been a fan of his for so long that I'm having a hard time quitting his show or what. I still see that he's a good conversationalist and moderator, but honestly, there are people a fraction his age on YouTube who have more knowledge than him. If I want some politics with humor mixed in, there are other options for that as well. 

I'm not sure that the other hosts have more knowledge per se, although they certainly do about some topics. It's that they do more research and just about all of the other television hosts are more willing to admit what they don't know. I think there are two major reasons that so many of his old time fans are enjoying his show less and less. One is that like most talk show hosts, even the greats like Carson and Letterman, he has found a comfort zone he refuses to leave and is recycling the same premises and bits. And the other is that he is lazy. He phones in entire months of shows and even when he is engaged he never does the prep work needed to reach the level of the post-Jon Stewart generation of topical comedian late night hosts. So unless the topic is one of the few things he happens to know in any depth without being one of his hobby horses he is not willing to listen to opposing opinions about he often doesn't ask the right questions. Which is why I miss Overtime (why didn't that come back with the in studio guests? Oh right -  laziness) where the audience did a much better job of knowing what needed to be asked and then Bill's talents as a moderator and conversationalist could shine through without the audience wondering why they weren't discussing the important issues at hand.

[deirdra]

Yes, they better bring back Overtime when they are back in the studio with a full audience - that was often the best part of the show in the past couple of years!

Edited May 31, 2021 by deirdra

[tessaray]

I miss Overtime too.

Is the show aired live anymore? I have HboMax and it airs at 10:00 Central time. I know before Covid, I always had to wait until next day but that was when it was Hbo Now.

[aghst]

They are in studio.

My sense is Bill never liked OT.  Probably prodded to do them by staff or the network.  He used to say something slightly derisive about OT is where they talk to people on the Internets or something like that.

 

I'm guessing his producers and staff are mostly comedy writers, not news researchers like say John Oliver's staff would be.

So I don't know how much research they do or how much information Bill tries to digest.  He says he reads some of the books of the guests, so maybe some on his staff give him a good synopses of books and maybe some major news items of the week.

 

[izabella]

Bill said that some people don't vote for Democrats because they are "too woke."  He has brought this up more than a few times in the past, too.  Has he ever said who these people are.?    Are they people who support the Democratic platform except for a few issues they think the Democrats are too woke about?  Or are they people who think most of the Democratic platform is too woke?

Maybe it's not the worst thing if the Democratic Party sheds some voters on the right if they gain even more voters on the left.   Those issues that Bill and some people think are too woke, matter very much to many other people.  We elect people who we think will do something about the issues we care about, right?

That's less of a concern for the Democrats right now than Bill's other point - it won't matter how many votes the Democrats get if the Republican legislators give themselves power to overturn elections.

[Hanahope]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:39 AM, iMonrey said:

This was frustrating. Bill was on the right track sounding the alarm about election rigging. Neither panelist had much of an answer to it. Nicholas Kristof parroted the party line about enacting policies that benefit Americans. That does nothing to address voter suppression and naked power grabs. As for James Carville, I rarely understand what the hell that living cartoon is saying. 

Unfortunately, Bill had to pivot back to his favorite stomping ground, wokeness. Which completely undercuts his first point. It wouldn't matter if Democrats stopped being "woke" tomorrow and everyone voted for them because of the aforementioned naked power grabs and election rigging.

Exactly!!!  It won’t matter if the Dems pass good laws or get more voters by dropping the “wokeness”, which is debatable, if republican state legislatures cry “voter fraud” when the democratic candidate wins, refuse to certify the democratic electors, and instead certify the losing republican candidate.  That goes for senate elections too.  Bill sees this and is worried as he should be, but no one is answering the question.
 

This could very well happen in 2022 midterms and/or 2024.  The Dems need to figure out what they will do.  It’s not like they can count on SCOTUS either.  

[BrownBear2012]

On 5/30/2021 at 10:13 PM, aghst said:

They are in studio.

My sense is Bill never liked OT.  Probably prodded to do them by staff or the network.  He used to say something slightly derisive about OT is where they talk to people on the Internets or something like that.

 

I'm guessing his producers and staff are mostly comedy writers, not news researchers like say John Oliver's staff would be.

So I don't know how much research they do or how much information Bill tries to digest.  He says he reads some of the books of the guests, so maybe some on his staff give him a good synopses of books and maybe some major news items of the week.

 

One of his writers is Amy Holmes...former guest and best known as a writer for Glenn Beck...this kind of tells you what direction Bill is leaning towards now.

Edited June 2, 2021 by BrownBear2012

[BrownBear2012]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:47 PM, wknt3 said:

I'm not sure that the other hosts have more knowledge per se, although they certainly do about some topics. It's that they do more research and just about all of the other television hosts are more willing to admit what they don't know. I think there are two major reasons that so many of his old time fans are enjoying his show less and less. One is that like most talk show hosts, even the greats like Carson and Letterman, he has found a comfort zone he refuses to leave and is recycling the same premises and bits. And the other is that he is lazy. He phones in entire months of shows and even when he is engaged he never does the prep work needed to reach the level of the post-Jon Stewart generation of topical comedian late night hosts. So unless the topic is one of the few things he happens to know in any depth without being one of his hobby horses he is not willing to listen to opposing opinions about he often doesn't ask the right questions. Which is why I miss Overtime (why didn't that come back with the in studio guests? Oh right -  laziness) where the audience did a much better job of knowing what needed to be asked and then Bill's talents as a moderator and conversationalist could shine through without the audience wondering why they weren't discussing the important issues at hand.

I haven't watched this show in almost two years now. I was tired of his reptitive rants on the same topics...pot good, millinials bad, bitching about the Me Too movement and social justice warriors (still haven't gotten an explanantion of who they are exactly), incels, parents of small children, small children, Berkeley canceling him, etc.etc...from what I see here, he's still ranting on the quite a few of the same topics. Let's face it....Bill's become an old fart. In alot of businesses, he would be retired by now or close to it. I don't think he's into doing this stuff anymore and it shows. And he's got two more years on his contract with HBO...ugh.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Bill said that some people don't vote for Democrats because they are "too woke."  He has brought this up more than a few times in the past, too.  Has he ever said who these people are.?  

Swing voters who vote for both Republicans and Democrats, and Independents.