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S07.E08: The Baroness

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When Caitlin needs help with a Vassar event, Liza is forced to turn to an inconvenient source: Quinn. Kelsey is unhappy with her time in the spotlight and tries to find a way out of it. Maggie gets cancelled.

Original air date: 5/13/21

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo

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Last week Liza told Kelsey that she had some ideas re Inkubator. So far she hasn't found time to explain them to her and now we get an akward, out of the blue, scene with Liza telling Kelsey that she somehow got a big piece in Vulture?
Is Liza editing the book on spec? What are their plans on getting it published - and where? Will they spring the solution on us in the last episode?

Handy that Josh found his inner Social Media Sherlock in time to solve Maggie's Twitter puzzle for her. But it was an easy deduction to make - art students, after all, are well known for not using any terminology older than their morning's porridge.

Never watched the Sound of Music - whats the deal with the baroness?

Edited by Aulty
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3 hours ago, Aulty said:

Never watched the Sound of Music - whats the deal with the baroness?

Wow!  You should watch it, it’s a wonderful movie.  Quinn as the baroness and Liza as Maria was a very apt analogy and very insightful on Quinn’s part  

I hate to spoil the movie if you haven’t seen it but here’s a short version.  
Maria(Julie Andrews):  troublemaker nun in training 

Captain von Trapp ((Christopher Plummer)  Austrian naval officer widower with a million kids lives in mansion also a baron, I think

scene Austria on the verge of WW II 

Baron is so sad he treats his kids like a navy crew 

nunnery sends Maria to be governess. 
captain engaged to baroness  (Eleanor Parker). Sort of a cold fish. Probably wants to send the kids to boarding school. Does not have the magical connection with the kids that Maria has. Maria teaches them to sing ((it is called The Sound of Music, after all).  
 

At a big party to announce engagement, they charmingly yodel The Lonely Goatherd, heard in episode (fill in later) of Younger.  
Captain ends up marrying nun instead of Baroness. Family escapes Nazis. 
 

ETA: maybe this is a subtle prediction that Charles will end up with Liza?  

Edited by GussieK
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8 hours ago, Aulty said:

Never watched the Sound of Music - whats the deal with the baroness?

 

5 hours ago, GussieK said:

Quinn as the baroness and Liza as Maria was a very apt analogy and very insightful on Quinn’s part  

Bonus: Laura Benanti played the Baroness in the 2013 live version of The Sound of Music. This duet is sung with Max, who was played by Sutton Foster's ex-husband, Christian Borle in this production.

Laura also played Maria on Broadway when she was only 19 years old (she replaced Rebecca Luker) with Richard Chamberlain as Captain Von Trapp in 1999:

 

 

Trivia that only musical theater nerds will care about - in 2002, Laura was nominated for a Tony Award for playing Cinderella in Into the Woods. She was injured during a performance and was replaced by Erin Dilly (who was the original lead in Thoroughly Modern Millie but was replaced by Sutton Foster shortly before the show opened during its pre-Broadway run at the La Jolla Playhouse in 2000).

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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6 hours ago, GussieK said:

Captain von Trapp ((Christopher Plummer)  Austrian naval officer widower with a million kids lives in mansion also a baron, I think

In the movie, there was nothing mentioned about Georg being a baron, but in real life his father was given the noble title of ritter, which is German for knight. According to the internet, it's the second lowest ranking noble title, above edler (which literally means "noble person") and below freiherr (baron). When his father died, both Georg and his brother inherited the title ritter. Georg's first wife came from a noble family (her mother was a countess and her cousin was a princess).

 

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7 hours ago, GussieK said:

captain engaged to baroness  (Eleanor Parker). Sort of a cold fish. Probably wants to send the kids to boarding school. Does not have the magical connection with the kids that Maria has. Maria teaches them to sing ((it is called The Sound of Music, after all).

Thanks for the summary. I wouldn't be surprised if they put that analogy in to hint towards a Charles/Liza reunion. The last time the did a SoM bit on the show was the episode where Charles and Liza got together, wasn't it?

I vaguely remember watching a documentary (Climbed Every Mountain) about the Sound of Music many years ago because Sue Perkins presented it (this was when Bake Off took off). I remember 2 things: most Austrians don't really like or watch it and that the real Maria von Trapp was the Joe Jackson of her time - as in she was known to beat the children.

One more question about the show: Is the Vassar acapella group really called the Treblemakers? I only now that name from Pitch Perfect 😅

Edited by Aulty
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But the captain just loved Maria more.  I love this because basically they both love him but it boils down to Charles’ feelings.  I also like with Quinn said to Liza.  Sometimes people just want someone to fight for them.  
 

So is Kelsey going for real estate guy.  I thought they were trying to throw her at the guy doing that reality show and I was like I hope that’s not gonna happen.

Poor Maggie.  I hope she gets back her show

Edited by dmc
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@Aulty if you are referring to the lonely goatherd scene, I think Liza went to the party where Charles was there because he was friends with the other couple in some other connection.  I forget whether that was the first time the got together or they got back together.  I really don't have the energy to research further. 

It's quite possible they've been setting up the Sound of Music references as a long game. 

Edited by GussieK

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1 hour ago, dmc said:

But the captain just loved Maria more.  I love this because basically they both love him but it boils down to Charles’ feelings.  I also like with Quinn said to Liza.  Sometimes people just want someone to fight for them.  

I wonder if with Quinn telling Liza that "You're Maria Von Trapp..." that Quinn knows it's only a matter of time before Liza and Charles get back together. And she's basically just enjoying her time with Charles before the inevitable happens.

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32 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I wonder if with Quinn telling Liza that "You're Maria Von Trapp..." that Quinn knows it's only a matter of time before Liza and Charles get back together. And she's basically just enjoying her time with Charles before the inevitable happens.

I think she does, she said it kind of wistful.  I also think she would rather be a “Maria”

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This episode made me like Quinn? And also they gave her a few Diana like lines.

But mostly I came here to say WHAT IN THE HELL DID THEY DRESS LIZA’S DAUGHTER IN FOR THAT DINNER? It looked like a frumpy Queen frock from The Crown.

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10 hours ago, Aulty said:

One more question about the show: Is the Vassar acapella group really called the Treblemakers? I only now that name from Pitch Perfect

Most universities have more than one a cappella group and 99% of them have silly music puns in their names (see also: Andrew Bernard's a cappella group at Cornell, Here Comes Treble).

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7 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I wonder if with Quinn telling Liza that "You're Maria Von Trapp..." that Quinn knows it's only a matter of time before Liza and Charles get back together. And she's basically just enjoying her time with Charles before the inevitable happens.

Quinn may be a lot of things, but stupid is not one of them.  I think she senses something amiss in her relationship with Charles and that analogy is her interpretation of it.  Perhaps it's all very "appropriate" between them but she realizes that there's not much real feeling there, while she knows there was more between him and Liza.  It looks like next week she may find out something that really explains to her why something's missing with him.  She may realize that he's nowhere near ready for a new relationship and hasn't gotten over Liza yet.  I have been waiting for this to happen.  He may think he can but there's no way he could turn on a dime like that after proposing to Liza.  It looks to me like they're setting it up that Quinn is Charles' rebound but Liza is his true love.  At least I hope.  With this show, you never know!

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7 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

WHAT IN THE HELL DID THEY DRESS LIZA’S DAUGHTER IN FOR THAT DINNER? It looked like a frumpy Queen frock from The Crown.

I was willing to overlook how she looked when she was talking to Liza outside of the building because that was casual, but I agree that her outfit at the award ceremony was not great. It wasn't flattering and it made her look very disheveled.

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I don’t think that we are supposed to believe Lauren is actually good at her job but I do think we are supposed to believe Kelsey only wants to work with people who are. No way would she give Lauren a pass for that whole reality show thing. 

The Maggie drama is much more the kind of thing that would wind up in New York magazine - not what looked like a 3-paragraph ‘chapter’ of an unpublished (and unsold?) book.

From here there are 4 episodes left, correct? I don't see how they can make Josh viable again - we're still spending so much time with Charles and the fallout from their breakup, with no real hint that Josh could come back into the picture. That bums me out a little partially because if she chose anyone I liked him best (and he feels like he's just going to sort of fade away, either his business will take off or Caitlin will come back into the picture, neither feeling that exciting to me). I hope Liza just chooses Inkubator at this point.

Edited by BingeyKohan
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This is my favorite Baroness-related thing on the planet. It's like the folks at Younger wanted to cement me as Team Quinn for life.

 

Also, I guess Younger has joined every other scripted TV show on the planet that presents reality TV shows as things that air practically in real time as they're filmed. I'm sure plenty of folks who've been on reality TV would've loved to see what their edit was while they were still filming so they could get out of it somehow.

Edited by gesundheit
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Quinn's personality is so all over the place that I never know what we're going to get from here week to week, but I really liked her this week. They made her very human but not out of character, you get a glimpse of a person who sometimes wishes she could be the happy free spirited Maria but knows that she's the serious business oriented Baroness. I definitely think that was foreshadowing that Quinn knows that Charles doesn't love her like he loves Liza and that Quinn will pull a Baroness and bow out gracefully so that they can be together. I always thought the show would end up with Charles/Liza, so I can see that happening by the series finale. 

If Kelsey is so serious about her brand, she really needs to get Lauren into a job where she cant do too much damage, if she has to employee her at all. I am disappointed with Kelsey's story this season, I was hoping to get more of an arc where Kelsey has to deal with the fact that she's growing up and is getting closer to no longer being able to define herself as a twenty something as a part of her identity. I would like to see her trying to find a bridge between living her best life being wild and free but also wanting some stability, like a lot of people in their early thirties.  

I am glad the whole weird love triangle with Maggie is over, although I am sad that she lost her job, I think we could have had a few more laughs with Maggie teaching college students. 

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I can see where they are going with this whole Baroness thing and it makes me uncomfortable. Once again the woman with no kids, who's put her passion in her career is shown as the one not deserving love. The dynamic here is the same as in the Nanny. It worked better there because CC was such a caricature of a career woman. I can rationalize this by pointing out that Quinn was for a long time an almost mustache twirling villain and is really not deserving of Charles. But I dunno, it leaves a bit of a bitter taste. At least Diana got her Happy End.

On a lighter note: The dress of Liza's daughter is actually not that bad (you can check it out on wornontv.net), but it did not suit the actress. Age, bodytype, coloring-  it was all wrong. On the other hand both red dresses worn in this episode (one by Liza, one by Quinn) were fantastic. With a fantastic price tag. 

I wish Maggie would not have caved in so easily with the Dean. She was completely unprofessional and should be removed from her job. 

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45 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I can see where they are going with this whole Baroness thing and it makes me uncomfortable. Once again the woman with no kids, who's put her passion in her career is shown as the one not deserving love. The dynamic here is the same as in the Nanny. It worked better there because CC was such a caricature of a career woman. I can rationalize this by pointing out that Quinn was for a long time an almost mustache twirling villain and is really not deserving of Charles. But I dunno, it leaves a bit of a bitter taste. At least Diana got her Happy End.

Agreed.

And given that all of the Charles/Quinn relationship happens either offscreen or from Liza's point of view (and yes, she's the lead character but other regulars get POV scenes), it's safe to say that it's just another Charles/Liza obstacle.

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No offense to anyone who likes her but I can't buy into this "perfect" image of Quinn based on what we've seen in the past few episodes, nor will I ever be able to feel sorry for her.  I don't care if she's a career woman, she is not worthy of Charles for other reasons and I think that's the point being made here.  There isn't a genuine bone in her body.  She does everything for show and self-promotion and the perfect image is designed to throw people off from that (and obviously Charles fell for it and now Liza is questioning herself on it too).  I don't think her past should be forgotten plus she basically horned in and stole Charles out from under Liza like a competitive, manipulative BITCH (and I don't use that word lightly) when he wasn't even cold from his breakup with Liza.  THEN she masterminded a little scheme to "trap" Liza and make her look dead wrong (which I still think was a coverup).  They are writing Quinn to look like the respectful baroness from the outside (and that's what she wants everyone to see too) and they're teasing the audience with it so we're afraid that Charles will pick her in the end.  But in reality she is one of those narcissists that looks absolutely perfect from the outside but on the inside she's anything but that image.  She is on TEAM QUINN first and foremost and everything else is just for show.  I actually hope that either Charles will start to see that and how empty Quinn really is inside or Liza will finally find something to expose her for what she is, and that's how Charles and Liza will get back together.

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I agree that the writing for Quinn has been all over the place and manipulative. It's the template they're using - cold manipulative career woman against woman with a heart of gold - that I find objectionable.

I would not trust Quinn either but this begs the question: why does Charles? The longer this goes on the less I find him the big prize the show would like me to think he is. In many ways Quinn-Charles is a repeat of Pauline-Charles and it's really not a good look for him and also not for Liza.

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OK, so there has got to be something up with Peter Hermann in terms of what he has agreed with Mariska that he won't do in terms of kissing actresses.  At the award ceremony, after Charles and Quinn first walked in, they then stood facing each other and came towards each other's faces exactly like they would kiss, but then Charles' face dipped down to the side of her face (the side not facing the camera).  It looked sooo weird and un-natural.  At least with Liza, he kisses her lips, even though the kisses are terrible.  So I genuinely wonder if there is some agreement with Peter and Mariska that he has to downplay the realism in his kissing scenes!

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5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I would not trust Quinn either but this begs the question: why does Charles? The longer this goes on the less I find him the big prize the show would like me to think he is. In many ways Quinn-Charles is a repeat of Pauline-Charles and it's really not a good look for him and also not for Liza.

I know, I posted to that effect last week.  Even those of us that were hoping she'd end up with him are seeing how easily he turned away from Liza and not trusting him to be the guy for her anymore.  And why should she think so either?  The fact that she's not getting angry with him and holding it all inside like she's a schoolgirl hoping the captain of the football team will notice her again is also objectionable.  What is she, 15 years old?  I wouldn't stand there and let that piranha snatch my man away from me and rub my nose in it even if we had just broken up.  They've made me lose respect for Liza too.   I don't know what it is with shows these days but they all tend to ruin themselves in their final seasons.  At least the ones I watch.

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On 5/13/2021 at 2:22 PM, Aulty said:

I vaguely remember watching a documentary (Climbed Every Mountain) about the Sound of Music many years ago because Sue Perkins presented it (this was when Bake Off took off). I remember 2 things: most Austrians don't really like or watch it and that the real Maria von Trapp was the Joe Jackson of her time - as in she was known to beat the children.

Thank you, Aulty, for posting this reference to Climbed Every Mountain.  I just finished watching it...very interesting (although I don't recall seeing anything about Maria beating the children, just that she could be a stern taskmaster and wasn't the light-hearted woman as portrayed by Julie Andrews), especially about how different the movie was from their real life.  It mentioned the original German movie, which I am watching right now...it has subtitles, and apparently goes farther with their lives than the end of The Sound of Music.

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7 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

although I don't recall seeing anything about Maria beating the children, just that she could be a stern taskmaster and wasn't the light-hearted woman as portrayed by Julie Andrews

Ok sorry, I might have caught that somewhere else but its not hard to find as apparently it comes directly from her autobiography:

"It has been documented that Maria was frequently violent with the children, using corporal punishment to keep them in check. As a result of this, the city of Salzburg recently rejected a request to have a trail named after her. A spokesperson stated that, ‘on one hand, there’s no doubts on the merits of Maria von Trapp, especially for Salzburg, but on the other hand if you look into her biography, into her autobiography, you can read how she educated the Trapp children and there was too much violence against children and we can’t accept this today." (theculturetrip.com, washingtontimes.com)

Edited by Aulty

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On 5/15/2021 at 2:32 PM, LuvMyShows said:

OK, so there has got to be something up with Peter Hermann in terms of what he has agreed with Mariska that he won't do in terms of kissing actresses.  At the award ceremony, after Charles and Quinn first walked in, they then stood facing each other and came towards each other's faces exactly like they would kiss, but then Charles' face dipped down to the side of her face (the side not facing the camera).  It looked sooo weird and un-natural.  At least with Liza, he kisses her lips, even though the kisses are terrible.  So I genuinely wonder if there is some agreement with Peter and Mariska that he has to downplay the realism in his kissing scenes!

It could be about the timing of shooting (maybe he or she had a no-kissing stipulation in the pandemic), but it could also be the show keeping that relationship as a plot point and not a real thing. I was saying before that it's only shown from Liza's POV (she seems them hugging or touching through a window, across a room, etc., rather than us seeing them actually building something). Quinn is still really a cipher and the show seems committed to Charles/Liza as the ideal, even though I can't imagine why anyone would want him at this point.

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3 hours ago, gesundheit said:

It could be about the timing of shooting (maybe he or she had a no-kissing stipulation in the pandemic), but it could also be the show keeping that relationship as a plot point and not a real thing. I was saying before that it's only shown from Liza's POV (she seems them hugging or touching through a window, across a room, etc., rather than us seeing them actually building something). Quinn is still really a cipher and the show seems committed to Charles/Liza as the ideal, even though I can't imagine why anyone would want him at this point.

I agree.  I said something above about their relationship being very "appropriate" and I think this illustrates it very well.  It's like the show wants to get across that their relationship is somehow lacking the depth of feeling that his and Liza's had.  It's almost like their relationship is just for show.  There may be an explanation from Charles in an upcoming episode.  I'm expecting him to redeem himself somehow.  I'm even entertaining wild theories like that Quinn was blackmailing him in exchange for playing her boyfriend.

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On 5/15/2021 at 2:32 PM, LuvMyShows said:

OK, so there has got to be something up with Peter Hermann in terms of what he has agreed with Mariska that he won't do in terms of kissing actresses.  At the award ceremony, after Charles and Quinn first walked in, they then stood facing each other and came towards each other's faces exactly like they would kiss, but then Charles' face dipped down to the side of her face (the side not facing the camera).  It looked sooo weird and un-natural.  At least with Liza, he kisses her lips, even though the kisses are terrible.  So I genuinely wonder if there is some agreement with Peter and Mariska that he has to downplay the realism in his kissing scenes!

If so it must be a one-sided agreement. I've been watching L&O:SVU  for years, and there have been quite a few times where Mariska has kissed men full on the lips - although her on-screen kissing style is cringe-worthy as well. Curious.

Edited by Winston Wolfe

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I take issue with the writers when Quinn says people forget that the Baroness loved the Captain. It's been awhile since I watched The Sound of Music but in my memory it was more of a status coup on the part of the Baroness rather than finding a soulmate.

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