S03.E13: Listen

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

In response to the killing of George Floyd, the friends are forced to reevaluate their own racial biases and take to the streets of Boston; Rome opts out in favour of his mental health and has a candid conversation with his father.

Promo:

Original air date: 5/12/21

[SunnyBeBe]

So, if Theo was supposed to go back to be with his dad while his mom used the restroom, why was he on the other side of the street when located? Made no sense. 
 

 

[ams1001]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, if Theo was supposed to go back to be with his dad while his mom used the restroom, why was he on the other side of the street when located? Made no sense. 

I think the guy that was walking with him said he turned the wrong way when he came out and got himself confused.

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, ams1001 said:

I think the guy that was walking with him said he turned the wrong way when he came out and got himself confused.

Maybe, but he knew his dad was not on the other side of the street.  That mix up was so contrived....

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Maybe, but he knew his dad was not on the other side of the street.  That mix up was so contrived....

Well, the writers seem to think he's five years old, so...

[SunnyBeBe]

The dialogue from Theo is bizarre.....ugh..

[KaveDweller]

20 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Maybe, but he knew his dad was not on the other side of the street.  That mix up was so contrived....

I also don't believe that Katherine would have just been okay with Theo walking back to the others on their own. It would have made more sense if she told him to wait right outside the door for her.

I know a ten-year-old would normally be capable of walking back to their dad alone, but this is Theo we're talking about. And they were at a protest, so not a guaranteed safe environment.

[SunnyBeBe]

34 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I also don't believe that Katherine would have just been okay with Theo walking back to the others on their own. It would have made more sense if she told him to wait right outside the door for her.

I know a ten-year-old would normally be capable of walking back to their dad alone, but this is Theo we're talking about. And they were at a protest, so not a guaranteed safe environment.

Exactly.  It was so contrived.  I’m so tired of it, Maybe, it’s time to let this one go again. I didn’t watch last season.  

[historylover820]

Yeah and Theo thinking the man mistaking Allen for his father was so funny came across as baffling (at least to me). You'd think that there would have to be other times where he's witnessed that mistake before. 

Katherine and Eddie have done a huge disservice for sheltering him that much. But then as sheltered as they've made Theo, it made no sense that Katherine would just let him find his own way back in the middle of a protest in one of the largest cities in the U.S.

I thought sure that someone kidnapped him, so we'll have that drama. Glad they didn't go that route.

[Chanandler Bong]

Rome is an exhausting human being. Regina, you really want to raise a kid with this guy?

Less Theo please. Wayyyyyyy less Theo.

[Brian Cronin]

First Maggie, now Florence, I swear, these people will pour their hearts out to anyone they've just met, huh? 

[Lady Calypso]

Man, Eddie had to really keep his mouth shut all episode when Alan showed up and when Theo was cackling like an idiot about Alan being mistaken for his dad in front of his actual dad. Yeah, super funny, Theo.... 

That being said, Eddie seemed to show some subtle character growth by not showing an ounce of anger or disgust at Katherine/Alan, and also discussing his embarrassment over not recognizing the blatant racism shown toward his son several episodes ago. A good episode for Eddie after many, many episodes of bad ones for him.

Maggie quitting that radio segment was what I expected. I can't imagine being cut off from trying to help someone because the time limit is up. I knew it would be a bad idea, and it's good that Maggie didn't take it for very long. And hey, maybe that assistant will become Maggie's new friend! Because, my god, Maggie needs more friends. She really IS more enjoyable when she's not in Gary's orbit. 

I did like the Gary/Rome scenes. I liked Rome's part in this episode in general. He has every right to be angry and upset about everything going on. It was frustrating to watch as a viewer, but I can't imagine the exhaustion that black men and women have to go through every day. I think Rome needed a day to be able to express his anger without judgement, and I like that Gary went to talk to him at the end of the day, although maybe the blatant jokes while he was explaining himself were a bit too inappropriate. I did enjoy Gary's scene with Darcy, explaining his Mexican name and why he now goes by Gary. I now think about how Gary has Javier Mendez on all of his official documents and driver's license, though, since I don't think they said that he officially changed his name.

I also loved how Rome's dad decided to go to the protest for Rome. That was a nice conversation between the two of them.

Overall, the episode could have been way worse. It wasn't half bad. Besides the stupid Theo stuff. Seriously, just ship the kid off to boarding school and be done with it. Or ship him off to France with Delilah. 

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

The dialogue from Theo is bizarre.

What is not bizarre, coming from Theo?

8 hours ago, historylover820 said:

I thought sure that someone kidnapped him, so we'll have that drama. Glad they didn't go that route.

It would actually be funny. The kidnapper would return him WITH a payment. That would be a twist

[gonzosgirrl]

I thought the BLM story was handled well. I knew someone would be hurt but was surprised it was Regina - I thought it would be Tyrell. Rome is exhausting, but Romany did a great job with it all. I'm liking the character growth in his dad. I felt for Eddie. Yes, he brought this all on himself, but addiction is brutal, and exacerbated by his physical issues, it was almost inevitable. And yes, he cheated on her which is despicable and not something I would forgive, but she did. You don't do that and then use it as an excuse later when things get hard for other reasons. There are definitely two sides, but this week I was on Eddie's. Theo? Worst written child character on tv. Please send the kid to his room, a la Chuck Cunningham.

I wonder if there will be more to Gary's name change. Will he return to his given name as the actor has? It definitely gave more weight to the 'Junior' nickname. How hard it must have been for Javier Sr. :(  I was cringing hard during his first convo with Rome, with the jokes and banter. Oh Gary, no. But that's what people with his personality do - sometimes it works, and sometimes it crashes and burns. I'm glad he realized, and sincerely apologized, and that Rome accepted it.

Maggie story was 100% predictable.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Andrea Bang! I'm always happy to see anyone from Kim's Convenience. I hope she leaves Dr. Stacy too (she seems like a nightmare of a boss) and maybe starts helping Maggie with her podcast.

The biggest question mark about that whole storyline was why Maggie didn't just give her caller the contact info for a therapist off the air. All she had to do was say, "I'm going to put you on hold for a minute," do the "thank for tuning in" message, and then privately give her the phone number. DJs have been doing that on the radio forever which is how lucky caller 100 gets their special prize without everyone in town hearing their contact info. Even though Dr. Stacy sounds like a huge pain in the ass, I can see the point that Maggie is given only five minutes of airtime so it shouldn't be wasted on publicly announcing one therapist's phone number. It made more sense that Maggie was frustrated at not being able to give each caller more time to give them real help. I guess the phone number thing was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Gary and Darcy revealing to each other that they both knew Katherine kissed Alan felt like a really watered down version of Rachel and Joey figuring out that they both knew about Monica and Chandler.

The protest was handled well. Since this is AMLT, I was sure there would be some kind of incident with at least once of the characters so I'm glad it seemed like Gina was okay (or at least okay enough to be discharged the same day).

Katherine and Eddie both handled Alan's presence pretty well. I think Eddie might not have been able to pull it off if not for Theo's presence so I guess thanks to Mr. I Need Multicolor Glitter for keeping us from having to see Eddie have a temper tantrum. I appreciate that both Eddie and Katherine are trying to do what's best for Theo and keep things civil. Now if only Eddie had been thinking about what was best for Theo when he was fucking Delilah and planning to leave Katherine to be with his best friend's wife - think of how much drama we would have missed out on!

I'm sure the show wants me to feel sympathy for Eddie being in such an awkward situation with Alan, but sorry, buddy, you get none from me after seeing all the awkward situations that Katherine was thrown into, like being forced to be nice to her husband's baby mama/mistress time after time.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I also don't believe that Katherine would have just been okay with Theo walking back to the others on their own. It would have made more sense if she told him to wait right outside the door for her.

I know a ten-year-old would normally be capable of walking back to their dad alone, but this is Theo we're talking about. And they were at a protest, so not a guaranteed safe environment.

I was surprised Katherine let him walk back alone in that crowd. Even a savvy 10 year old shouldn't left to wander in a crowd that big, in circumstances that could quickly turn nasty.

I didn't find Rome exhausting. I guess I felt that the mix of emotions for black people are beyond my imagination, and that his were valid given both history in general and his personal history.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Clanstarling

[Lady Calypso]

42 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The biggest question mark about that whole storyline was why Maggie didn't just give her caller the contact info for a therapist off the air. All she had to do was say, "I'm going to put you on hold for a minute," do the "thank for tuning in" message, and then privately give her the phone number.

It sounded like her boss wouldn't let her do that. It sounded like the assistant hung up on these people before Maggie could give them her info, and the assistant wasn't allowed to give Maggie the contact info. I think Maggie had asked the assistant if she could have the contact info for that one caller and she was denied it completely, which is why the assistant had to sneak behind their boss' back to give it to Maggie at the end. 

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

I cried when Rome cried & hugged his dad! 😭

The best moment for me was when Alan showed up at Someday. Let Eddie feel the awkwardness, the heartache, the betrayal that Katherine has been feeling every time Delilah & Charlie are around. I have zero sympathy for Eddie. 

Am so so sick of Theo, the worst & most annoying kid ever! 🤬🤬🤬 Why is he taking the lead on posters? Why they bring him to the protest but not Danny? 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm sure the show wants me to feel sympathy for Eddie being in such an awkward situation with Alan, but sorry, buddy, you get none from me after seeing all the awkward situations that Katherine was thrown into, like being forced to be nice to her husband's baby mama/mistress time after time.

That's the thing though, nobody forced Katherine to do anything. She made her choices to forgive Eddie and be part of the friend group again. I would have respected her for leaving Eddie over the affair and baby-mama-drama, But IMO leaving your addict husband who fell off the wagon due to being paralyzed and in pain, confessed, showed true regret and went to rehab: kind of a dick move.

In the words of the Am I The Asshole sub-reddit, ESH.

Edited May 13, 2021 by gonzosgirrl
clarity - and because I'm incapable of not editing

[ElectricBoogaloo]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That's the thing though, nobody forced Katherine to do anything. She made her choices to forgive Eddie and be part of the friend group again. I would have respected her for leaving Eddie over the affair and baby-mama-drama, But IMO leaving your addict husband who fell off the wagon due to being paralyzed and in pain, confessed, showed true regret and went to rehab: kind of a dick move.

If we're judging people for what they chose to do and no one forced them to do, no one forced Eddie to fuck Delilah. No one forced him to decide to leave his wife and child for another woman. No one forced him to tell his wife he wanted to reconcile with her while he was still sneaking around kissing his mistress and telling her he wanted to be with her. No one forced him to do drugs. No one forced him to hide the fact that he was doing drugs from his wife. No one forced him to bribe a young girl who he was supposed to be mentoring to bring him more drugs. No one forced him to lie to his wife's face and blame this girl for his drug hijinks when his wife discovered an empty pill bottle. No one forced him to steal pills from his friend's house. IMO leaving your wife and child when your wife has no idea that you've been fucking around with your best friend's wife because your wife has committed the cardinal sin of liking Indian food and you don't have the balls to tell her you'd rather eat something else for dinner is a dick move. Eddie made his choices too. Katherine shouldn't stay with him just because he fell off the wagon. There's never a convenient time to get a divorce. She's ready to move on with her life, so she should.

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

She's ready to move on with her life, so she should.

She should indeed*, but she should also own it, which she seemed more willing to do this week. She earned the nickname Saint Katherine around my house for her behavior within the group and around Delilah and baby-whats-her-name, but I don't much care for saints or martyrs - and that's the choice she made. Thus my comment that she wasn't forced to be in those cringe-worthy situations the past year. She was also introduced as a very different character in the beginning, one who nobody seemed to feel all that sorry for when they learned of Gary's affair, not until they learned who the affair was with.

*I would have left the moment I learned of the affair, or kicked him out, depending on the circumstances. No forgiveness from me for that.

[SunnyBeBe]

I like the new characters better than regular, like Alan, Romes’s dad’s girlfriend, Maggie’s radio assistant, etc.  I wonder how well the writers know these characters.  

[cardigirl]

I liked this episode and last week's episode a lot. Just enjoyed watching the acting and didn't think the writing was too terrible. I guess the show being Delilah-free makes it more palatable for me. 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If we're judging people for what they chose to do and no one forced them to do, no one forced Eddie to fuck Delilah. No one forced him to decide to leave his wife and child for another woman. No one forced him to tell his wife he wanted to reconcile with her while he was still sneaking around kissing his mistress and telling her he wanted to be with her. No one forced him to do drugs. No one forced him to hide the fact that he was doing drugs from his wife. No one forced him to bribe a young girl who he was supposed to be mentoring to bring him more drugs. No one forced him to lie to his wife's face and blame this girl for his drug hijinks when his wife discovered an empty pill bottle. No one forced him to steal pills from his friend's house. IMO leaving your wife and child when your wife has no idea that you've been fucking around with your best friend's wife because your wife has committed the cardinal sin of liking Indian food and you don't have the balls to tell her you'd rather eat something else for dinner is a dick move. Eddie made his choices too. Katherine shouldn't stay with him just because he fell off the wagon. There's never a convenient time to get a divorce. She's ready to move on with her life, so she should.

 

36 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

She should indeed*, but she should also own it, which she seemed more willing to do this week. She earned the nickname Saint Katherine around my house for her behavior within the group and around Delilah and baby-whats-her-name, but I don't much care for saints or martyrs - and that's the choice she made. Thus my comment that she wasn't forced to be in those cringe-worthy situations the past year. She was also introduced as a very different character in the beginning, one who nobody seemed to feel all that sorry for when they learned of Gary's affair, not until they learned who the affair was with.

*I would have left the moment I learned of the affair, or kicked him out, depending on the circumstances. No forgiveness from me for that.

I'm getting tired of Eddie being the one that gets punished for the "crime" of the affair, over and over again, it seems, while Delilah pretty much sailed through it. What's that you say?  Her husband died. Her daughter got angry and moved out (for 3 episodes). And she lost Eddie. Hmmm, I don't think Delilah suffered nearly as much as Eddie has, but OKAY, YMMV. 

While I agree that Katherine has had to deal with more than most wives would accept, I'm pretty bummed that this is the turn the storyline has taken, after all the hard work of previous seasons of getting Eddie and Katherine back together.  I like the new guy in Katherine's life, too, darn it, but I'm rather mad about it.  

[tennisgurl]

The protest and everything was handled alright, I thought most of Rome and Regina's scenes were good and talked about a lot of very real feelings from them, and they didn't go too hard on the melodrama and mostly focused on the actual characters and their reactions to everything going on. Of course its this show, so we did get a decent amount of melodrama, of course everyone wouldn't just go to the protest, do protest stuff, and then go home. We have to have the worlds most awkward sign making conversation, Regina getting injured by the cops, Rome yelling at Gary which leads to a talk about him being mixed race, Theo wandering away for five seconds just so some guy can make it even more awkward, and even some stuff about Vietnam and 60s protesting, because this show loves issues so much that it will bring up decades old issues just to make sure all its bases have been covered as it works on another issue. This is the show that tied the suicide that started the show off into freaking 9/11 after all. But this managed to not be quite as cringy as I was worried it would be. 

I love how on TV, dramatically and publicly quitting your job always ends in you immediately finding the perfect job right after in the wake of your public quitting and not dealing with unemployment and future employers being wary of hiring you after you burned bridges at your last job. I do agree with Maggie about that job though, that show sounded ridiculous, how can you possibly give people advice in that short a period of time that is in anyway meaningful? At least they could do a follow up, or Maggie could have told the woman with anxiety to get in touch with her later. Maggie really is a like more likable away from Gary, just like Gary is more likable when he isn't with her. 

So one of the other themes of the season seems to be "Gary tries to help his friends, they yell at him" which is hilarious considering Gary has actually been alright this season, while no one yelled at him when they should have when he was being really annoying in previous seasons. Darcy, really is good for him, she balances out his constant need to be in the spotlight. I am glad we got some follow up about Gary's name from last week, and I really liked his talks with Rome and Darcy. 

Eddie finally has a good episode after they spent the whole season flushing his character development down the toilet, even if it was all because of the most awkward situation that could possibly exist, unless Delilah decided to pick that exact moment to show up, alongside Eve and her baby. Theo of course made it even more awkward, most ten years olds can decently read a room or manage to get from a backroom to their dad without getting lost, but Theo is ten going on three, so he just babbles on about glitter and laughs for an uncomfortably amount of time about some guy mistaking Allen for his dad. That kid is just getting more annoying by the day, its like the writers are doing everything they can to make him onto the "annoying precocious sitcom kid" trope that they can, while writing him like a two year old despite being only a few years from puberty. Its wild to think that Danny is only about four years older then him. It did lead to some awkward laughs, like Eddie and Allen making awkward small talk about the weather and then Allen humble bragging about his thousands of accomplishments. Maybe he didn't mean for it to be humble bragging, but come on, he just told a guy in a wheelchair about how he teaches kickboxing, "just for fun". It was either a little bit of bragging or Allen is just a rambler when he gets nervous. 

[Fable]

I know this has nothing to do with the episode, but I was watching some clips from An Officer and a Gentleman a few weeks ago, and I saw a strong resemblance between the younger Lou Gossett Jr. and Romany Malco, so I just wanted to point out what I thought was a great casting choice. 

[Suzn]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That's the thing though, nobody forced Katherine to do anything. She made her choices to forgive Eddie and be part of the friend group again. I would have respected her for leaving Eddie over the affair and baby-mama-drama, But IMO leaving your addict husband who fell off the wagon due to being paralyzed and in pain, confessed, showed true regret and went to rehab: kind of a dick move.

In the words of the Am I The Asshole sub-reddit, ESH.

This describes my feelings about Katherine really well.  She did choose to stay with Eddie when he was totally in the wrong and when he was paralyzed and in pain she had no understanding and compassion.  Yes, he did fall off the wagon and lie about it, but it's pretty understandable why.  It would have been helpful for him if she had paid any attention to what he was going through.

On another topic, please send Theo away somewhere, anywhere.  What an annoying child!

[gonzosgirrl]

49 minutes ago, Fable said:

I know this has nothing to do with the episode, but I was watching some clips from An Officer and a Gentleman a few weeks ago, and I saw a strong resemblance between the younger Lou Gossett Jr. and Romany Malco, so I just wanted to point out what I thought was a great casting choice. 

I agree on the resemblance between Romany and Lou Gossett Jr., but unless I'm missing another point here, Rome's father is played by an actor named Lou Beatty Jr. 

[Brian Cronin]

The episode really did handle BLM better than expected. Theo's scenes were awful, but that's just a given. Everything else was good (although Gary was probably a BIT too clueless in his first call with Rome. There's ways to get the same result without Gary looking like a complete idiot).

[Fable]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I agree on the resemblance between Romany and Lou Gossett Jr., but unless I'm missing another point here, Rome's father is played by an actor named Lou Beatty Jr. 

You're right, my bad.  I saw Lou and Jr. and noticed a resemblance while watching a movie and made an assumption.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

They handled this well, but I thought it was strange that, “Let’s participate in this protest” seemed to become “This is a great opportunity to create spectacular signs.”

If you’re going to the store, can you pick up some multicolored glitter?

Don’t forget to bring the glue gun to the restaurant.

We can’t join Kiki at the protest because we’re still working on the signs.

People really seem to like your signs, Theo.

[ams1001]

17 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Don’t forget to bring the glue gun to the restaurant.

But I'm not old enough to use it by myself!

[Snazzy Daisy]

22 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

But I'm not old enough to use it by myself!

It's okay, new daddy is here to help ya!

[Aileen]

I’m so confused about how they bought multicolor glitter without using the convenient curbside service at Target.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, Suzn said:

It would have been helpful for him if she had paid any attention to what he was going through.

And it would have been helpful if Eddie had been honest about his frustration and his pain levels instead of lying to his wife every time she asked if he was okay, needed help, etc. Instead he just smiled and said he was fine, that she should go to work, that he could handle it, and shooed her out of the house.

She's not a mind reader. The only mistake she made in that situation was taking her husband at his word and believing that after he promised not to lie to her anymore, he would actually not lie to her. She did what she was supposed to do - she checked in with him and asked if he needed her help in anyway. He kept insisting that he was fine aka lying to her.

If she had pushed him by asking more questions or if she had said to anyone that she suspected he was lying, then she would have been labeled suspicious, pushy, and controlling. It's not her fault that Eddie chose to keep the truth from her yet again.

They both made choices. He chose to keep the truth from her. He chose not to be honest about what he was going through. She, like a mature adult, chose to take him at his word and believe that he was telling the truth (which is what you SHOULD do in a healthy relationship).

Mr. EB had surgery a few years ago and while he was convalescing, I asked if he wanted the pain meds his doctor had prescribed. He said no. I took him at his word. I didn't say, "Are you sure? Are you sure? What about now? On a scale from 1 to 10, how much pain are you in?" I assumed he was an adult who could make his own decisions and be honest with me. Whether you tell me yes or no, then that's what I'm going with.

Edited May 14, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Suzn]

3 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And it would have been helpful if Eddie had been honest about his frustration and his pain levels instead of lying to his wife every time she asked if he was okay, needed help, etc. Instead he just smiled and said he was fine, that she should go to work, that he could handle it, and shooed her out of the house. She's not a mind reader. The only mistake she made in that situation was taking her husband at his word and believing that after he promised not to lie to her anymore, he would actually not lie to her. She did what she was supposed to do - she checked in with him and asked if he needed her help in anyway. He kept insisting that he was fine aka lying to her. If she had pushed him by asking more questions or if she had said to anyone that she suspected he was lying, then she would have been labeled suspicious, pushy, and controlling. It's not her fault that Eddie chose to keep the truth from her yet again.

I don't think it would take a mind reader to see that he was not fine.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I don't think it would take a mind reader to see that he was not fine.

None of his best friends saw anything wrong with him either and these codependent weirdos seem to spend every minute of their lives together. It's not Katherine's fault that she believed the lies he told her and all of their friends about how he was fine, just like it's not anyone's fault for not seeing Jon's depression before he died. Eddie and Jon both chose to hide their pain from the people around them and constantly pretend that everything was fine.

[Brian Cronin]

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

They handled this well, but I thought it was strange that, “Let’s participate in this protest” seemed to become “This is a great opportunity to create spectacular signs.”

If you’re going to the store, can you pick up some multicolored glitter?

Don’t forget to bring the glue gun to the restaurant.

We can’t join Kiki at the protest because we’re still working on the signs.

People really seem to like your signs, Theo.

Encouraging them to do signs IS a fairly common way to get young children to feel active in protests, but...yeah, typically kids a lot younger than Theo. He's, like, perpetually eight. 

[debraran]

I don't get why Theo is written the way he is. There have been shows in the past, a couple where he was better. I don't blame the actor, he is given what he is given. The dad thing was silly, the man didn't have to feel so embarrassed and Theo couldn't understand why? He looks more like his mom, no big deal.

I liked the Gary arc, I FF through the Maggie parts, I stopped watching in part because of her, but you knew what the end result would be of her radio show before she started. No radio show, no matter how long is "real therapy". I liked how Gary told his story and Darcy's reaction was normal and not overplayed. I also loved her line "you could choose" Comparing isn't the same, Rome is always black but the feelings of why he wanted too are real. I hope the writers do this justice.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

None of his best friends saw anything wrong with him either and these codependent weirdos seem to spend every minute of their lives together. It's not Katherine's fault that she believed the lies he told her and all of their friends about how he was fine, just like it's not anyone's fault for not seeing Jon's depression before he died. Eddie and Jon both chose to hide their pain from the people around them and constantly pretend that everything was fine.

The difference for me is, nobody knew Jon was suicidal, or even depressed and given the flashbacks we've seen, they had no reason to suspect he was. They all know Eddie is an alcoholic/addict who is still recovering from a catastrophic injury and was 'dealing' with what appeared to be excruciating pain, with aspirin. His appearance alone should have been a giant red flag, were this not taking place in TVLand where nobody notices these things. There's room for sympathy here (where there wasn't over his cheating). He did steal the pills from Gina, but he also flushed them down the toilet and was prepared to tough it out until his therapy/rehab got cancelled and he was left with nothing but aspirin. Both Katherine and Theo were quite happy to go along with the facade, no questions asked, as long as he was still able to be hero-dad. Given all they've already been through, I don't think taking a harder look at his 'I'm fine' claim was out of order.

 

[Suzn]

44 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The difference for me is, nobody knew Jon was suicidal, or even depressed and given the flashbacks we've seen, they had no reason to suspect he was. They all know Eddie is an alcoholic/addict who is still recovering from a catastrophic injury and was 'dealing' with what appeared to be excruciating pain, with aspirin. His appearance alone should have been a giant red flag, were this not taking place in TVLand where nobody notices these things. There's room for sympathy here (where there wasn't over his cheating). He did steal the pills from Gina, but he also flushed them down the toilet and was prepared to tough it out until his therapy/rehab got cancelled and he was left with nothing but aspirin. Both Katherine and Theo were quite happy to go along with the facade, no questions asked, as long as he was still able to be hero-dad. Given all they've already been through, I don't think taking a harder look at his 'I'm fine' claim was out of order.

 

Eddie as he was portrayed, was clearly not "fine".  It was bad enough that his friends were oblivious, but Katherine was living with him and seemed blithely willing to accept that Eddie was having no problems with being newly paralyzed.  It is such an unpopular position to have any sympathy for Eddie and not see Katherine as a saint, but I don't see the absolute clear blame being all on Eddie.  This is a distinctly different situation than Eddie's affair with Delilah in which he was to blame - although he seems to be the only one at fault there, since Delilah seems to get away pretty much unscathed.

[ifionlyknew]

I was married to an addict (an alcoholic) and let me tell when they fall off the wagon no matter the reason it is so disappointing.  I'm not going to fault Katherine for basically reaching the end of her rope. She has had enough and I don't think she is obligated to continue to be married to someone who has caused her so much stress.  Eddie did seek help and good for him but ultimately his recovery needs to be based on him wanting to stay clean for himself not to keep his family together.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I was married to an addict (an alcoholic) and let me tell when they fall off the wagon no matter the reason it is so disappointing.  I'm not going to fault Katherine for basically reaching the end of her rope. She has had enough and I don't think she is obligated to continue to be married to someone who has caused her so much stress.  Eddie did seek help and good for him but ultimately his recovery needs to be based on him wanting to stay clean for himself not to keep his family together.

I actually agree that Katherine is entitled to be done with Eddie. In every relationship that ends, there is a tipping point of no return, and she reached hers. But I don't think that it makes her a great person to have been pretty much oblivious to her husband's decline and fall. She doesn't get to be a martyr.

[Suzn]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I actually agree that Katherine is entitled to be done with Eddie. In every relationship that ends, there is a tipping point of no return, and she reached hers. But I don't think that it makes her a great person to have been pretty much oblivious to her husband's decline and fall. She doesn't get to be a martyr.

Exactly.  There's justification enough for Katherine to leave Eddie, but she doesn't get to be above reproach and Eddie deserves some sympathy.

[historylover820]

Completely agree with you guys here.

Katherine should get on with her own life and leave Eddie. If I had a husband who cheated on me, that's it. I'm not putting up with that. But Katherine did. And their relationship was really good last season.

It was Eddie's accident and his addiction that was the straw that broke the camel's back. But, Katherine is not a saint or a martyr. Technically, she's leaving her disabled husband who has an illness. Did he lie? Yes. Did he let her down? Yes. Katherine has every right to be upset and hurt. And she should leave. But she's also not exactly the innocent, put-upon party here.

She broke her wedding vows. Yes, Eddie did first, and he's been paying the piper since the first season for it. (I agree with those who see that Eddie is constantly paying for his indiscretion, but Delilah has gotten off remarkably scot-free.) But Katherine broke her wedding vows of "For better or for worse, in sickness and in health." 

Yes, Eddie lied. Addicts tend to do that. Eddie deflected his problems onto others. That's what addicts tend to do too. But addiction is a disease. And we're living in a time of widespread opioid addiction in real life.

Yes, Eddie smiled and said he was fine. I think most people can relate to that. It's almost been 13 years since I had a blood clot in my brain. People asked me afterwards how I was doing, and I didn't want to burden myself on people, even family and friends, so I smiled and said I was fine. When I felt like I had an axe embedded in my skull, couldn't drive, didn't feel independent because I had to rely on others to drive me around, and wasn't fine emotionally at all. And no, I didn't get addicted to pain killers. But I do relate to smiling and saying I'm fine when I'm not.  I still do that a lot.

And I think a lot of people do that. Smile and say that they're fine when they're not.

But completely agree with the "codependent freaks who didn't realize Jon was suicidal." Amen to that. Even closest friends can overlook people screaming and crying through their smiles. Also, Eddie really hasn't been around this group that much this season anyways.

Yeah, Eddie needs to stay sober for himself, not his friends, his wife, and his family. Katherine needs to have a happy life, even if that means she needs to leave Eddie.  She does deserve that. But that does not mean that she's exactly in the right with this decision. And Eddie also deserves happiness as well. And sympathy.

It's still sad that this storyline went there.

During a break today, I saw a story in IndieWire about A Million Little Things, and in particular, Eddie's storyline this season. And the writer (who apparently is in a wheelchair) found it tragic. Not the storyline itself but the fact that the writers went to pain, helplessness, drug addiction, and probably to divorce when this could have been an opportunity for some real understanding. Of course, DG is able-bodied. But, there could have been an opportunity to see Eddie in physical rehab, having others around him who are also in wheelchairs who can be encouraging.

[lala2]

On 5/13/2021 at 12:46 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

That's the thing though, nobody forced Katherine to do anything. She made her choices to forgive Eddie and be part of the friend group again. I would have respected her for leaving Eddie over the affair and baby-mama-drama, But IMO leaving your addict husband who fell off the wagon due to being paralyzed and in pain, confessed, showed true regret and went to rehab: kind of a dick move.

In the words of the Am I The Asshole sub-reddit, ESH.

I was just about to post the exact same thing. I feel the same way about this situation. Eddie does have my sympathy. He was purposefully run over by a truck and paralyzed. He's arleady an addict so he was wary of taking pain meds. He tried to handle it w/o the meds, and it became too much. He was also trying to not mess up again b/c he already made some major mistakes in his marriage. He messed up. I feel for him. I didn't feel for him at all during the Delilah situation, and I was rooting for Katherine to dump him then. But this is a different situation, and he has my sympathy.

I also don't think it was just Theo's presence that let Eddie keep his cool this past. He knows his marriage is over. And he knows what he did to Katherine w/his own affair, so I hope he understands he has no room to speak about her seeing Allan. She was honest w/him about not loving him anymore in the way a wife should, and I think he gets it. As I said last week, I just want Eddie to get his life together.  I don't hate Eddie. He's gone through a lot, and it would be nice if he wasn't made the "screw up" for one reason.  He deserves happiness too, and I hope he finds it. 

I also agree that Katherine was never forced to forgive Eddie or to endure Delilah. She chose to forgive Eddie and work on her marriage and be friendly w/Delilah. I would have dumped him then, but she didn't. She stood by him and worked on the marriage. They renewed their vows.  I honestly don't think you can continue to throw cheating in the cheater's face once you've "forgiven" them. That is not fair to the other person. If you're harboring resentment and anger, just end the relationship. I understand Eddie's lies this time were Katherine's last straw, but it's just harsh to me. What can I say? I feel for the guy. He was paralyzed and in pain. It's not like he became addicted for kicks. I also agree that Katherine should have noticed him looking rough all the time or assumed he wasn't coping as well as he stated. And, yes, Eddie should have been honest. But as I said, I think he was trying to cope and to not be a burden on anyone. Blame can go all around when it comes to this situation if you ask me.  

Edited May 15, 2021 by lala2

[historylover820]

I missed the first few minutes of this episode, so I didn't see this until I checked out the quotes thread.....

Theo texted Darcy about getting multicolored glitter???????

[ams1001]

12 hours ago, historylover820 said:

I missed the first few minutes of this episode, so I didn't see this until I checked out the quotes thread.....

Theo texted Darcy about getting multicolored glitter???????

Oh, jeez, I missed that, too. 🙄

[marceline]

The way Theo was giggling at Alan having been mistaken for his father just really made me think that there's something wrong with this kid. That was practically a serial killer giggle.

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, marceline said:

The way Theo was giggling at Alan having been mistaken for his father just really made me think that there's something wrong with this kid. That was practically a serial killer giggle.

What has happened to Scott the Cat?  Is he still around?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 5/15/2021 at 5:18 AM, historylover820 said:

I missed the first few minutes of this episode, so I didn't see this until I checked out the quotes thread.....

Theo texted Darcy about getting multicolored glitter???????

 

On 5/15/2021 at 5:39 PM, ams1001 said:

Oh, jeez, I missed that, too. 🙄

It's almost ten minutes into the episode when Gary and Darcy are at the store (just before they talk about who has what kind of security clearance about Katherine and Alan). It's after the scene where Gary calls Rome to ask if he wants any specific supplies from the store and then Rome gets mad, hangs up on Gary, and tells Gina that he can't go to the protest.