Season 9 Reunion Part 2

[Jax7917]

13 hours ago, Mothra said:

Well, I don't think Tyler was talking about literally writing a letter such as you suggest--of course he could do that.  But should he intrude himself into Carly's life in that way, especially since he and Catelyn have not maintained a regular, dependable connection to Carly during all these years?  There have been spates where they reached out, ghastly times when they introduced Carly to Butch and the whole gang, then months if not years of silence, during which they periodically bitched about how hard Brandon and Theresa were making it for them to have a close relationship with Carly.  There has been no consistency, and that is on them.  Not their fault; it's how they were raised, and how they are raising their own children.  But they have no right to impose inconsistency on Carly.

I think Dawn really failed them.  She sold them on open adoption, leading them to believe they would be sort of loving aunt and uncle to Carly, so that Carly would actually reach out to them, to call them when she had a good report card or signed up for the softball team. It's plain to me that Brandon and Theresa are perfectly happy to have C&T totally out of Carly's life, and they feel that it's up to C&T to build a connection, if that's what C&T want.  Dawn should have coached C&T about how to maintain a consistent, loving relationship with Carly--if that is what they wanted; it's certainly what Dawn led them to believe would happen--and helped them with the nuts and bolts (regular letters and phone calls, regular exchange of photos, plans to meet periodically, etc.) of establishing that connection.  As far as I can tell, she has never done anything but talk, and then only when C&T have worked themselves up emotionally and are desperate for contact.

I think of Carly, who is living as far as we know a happy middle-class life--that's certainly Tyler's belief--having these people she doesn't know, people she would never encounter in her day-to-day life--people with drug problems, who have never had a job, who depend on exposing themselves on tv for a living--really (forgive me) trashy people with no common background with her except the accident of biology--and she is supposed to be involved in a close, loving, sharing relationship with them (and their family!), and only when they sporadically decide to contact her.  Out of the blue, she gets letters expecting her to share her life with someone she doesn't know, someone with whom she has virtually no common ground--and she's expected to reply with the enclosed stamps!

I loved it when Tyler said that all he'd want to tell Brandon and Theresa was "thank you" for giving his daughter the life he and Catelyn could never have given her, and I don't think he meant a better life economically, but better than the life two teenagers could have provided her with.

I wish Catelyn would concentrate on Nova and her learning problems--Catelyn really has enough to do in her own home with the children she is raising herself.

You said it perfectly . And at this point Carly is 12 years old . She’s not 3. She has friends , crushes , family , I’m sure sports and activities , school etc . She’s almost as old as when cate and Tyler had her , which is insane . I feel like Brandon and Theresa have such good reason to be fed up . Yes everyone agreed to an open adoption many years ago , but as I said .. she’s not a toddler anymore . Things change , life changes , situations change . They need to stop discussing Brandon and Theresa on television on a trashy reality tv show . They are Carlys parents and they have been since she’s born . They know what’s best for their child , not these two dimwits who use their biological daughter for a story line . 

[geauxaway]

I’m not watching only reading posts.  My sons bio mom always starts every convo with me as “thank you for taking care of him”...... and I HAVE to let it roll off my back.  She is not even a teen mom, she was 30ish when she had him. I could give C&T grace for a bit, but it gets old. This bitch (my sons uterus) is about 40 and still is all thank you for taking care of him.  Yah that’s not really what I am doing but I know you can’t understand how the real world works.  I figure that’s Amber and Ryan, Cate and Tyler too.  

[TrixieTrue]

I've sometimes wondered if Carly goes by a different name now. I remember that Carly was a nickname, so maybe she goes by her actual first name or middle name. Unfortunately, BrandonAndTeresa (which always sounds like one word when Tyler and Cate say it) is almost automatically associated with Carly (at least for casual watchers of this show), and that gives them far less privacy. I know they can't all change their names and go into witness protection, but it feels gross that their names are so public.   

[FozzyBear]

On 4/29/2021 at 3:19 AM, Mothra said:

Well, I don't think Tyler was talking about literally writing a letter such as you suggest--of course he could do that.  But should he intrude himself into Carly's life in that way, especially since he and Catelyn have not maintained a regular, dependable connection to Carly during all these years?  There have been spates where they reached out, ghastly times when they introduced Carly to Butch and the whole gang, then months if not years of silence, during which they periodically bitched about how hard Brandon and Theresa were making it for them to have a close relationship with Carly.  There has been no consistency, and that is on them.  Not their fault; it's how they were raised, and how they are raising their own children.  But they have no right to impose inconsistency on Carly.

I think Dawn really failed them.  She sold them on open adoption, leading them to believe they would be sort of loving aunt and uncle to Carly, so that Carly would actually reach out to them, to call them when she had a good report card or signed up for the softball team. It's plain to me that Brandon and Theresa are perfectly happy to have C&T totally out of Carly's life, and they feel that it's up to C&T to build a connection, if that's what C&T want.  Dawn should have coached C&T about how to maintain a consistent, loving relationship with Carly--if that is what they wanted; it's certainly what Dawn led them to believe would happen--and helped them with the nuts and bolts (regular letters and phone calls, regular exchange of photos, plans to meet periodically, etc.) of establishing that connection.  As far as I can tell, she has never done anything but talk, and then only when C&T have worked themselves up emotionally and are desperate for contact.

I think of Carly, who is living as far as we know a happy middle-class life--that's certainly Tyler's belief--having these people she doesn't know, people she would never encounter in her day-to-day life--people with drug problems, who have never had a job, who depend on exposing themselves on tv for a living--really (forgive me) trashy people with no common background with her except the accident of biology--and she is supposed to be involved in a close, loving, sharing relationship with them (and their family!), and only when they sporadically decide to contact her.  Out of the blue, she gets letters expecting her to share her life with someone she doesn't know, someone with whom she has virtually no common ground--and she's expected to reply with the enclosed stamps!

I loved it when Tyler said that all he'd want to tell Brandon and Theresa was "thank you" for giving his daughter the life he and Catelyn could never have given her, and I don't think he meant a better life economically, but better than the life two teenagers could have provided her with.

I wish Catelyn would concentrate on Nova and her learning problems--Catelyn really has enough to do in her own home with the children she is raising herself.

I also got the feeling that Dawn led them to believe that an open adoption is like a custody agreement, but it’s not. At least in the State I live in it’s more like a goal or an understanding. But it’s not actually legally enforceable in either direction. Open adoption doesn’t mean that birth parents can demand to see the kids, just like the parents can’t demand that birth parents see the kids either. It’s like going to pre-marital counseling and agreeing you want 3 kids and a dog. That’s not a legally enforceable agreement. It’s just people trying to be honest about how they feel. But I have my suspicions that Dawn knew they didn’t understand that and let them go on believing they would have legal rights to Carly after the adoption. I don’t think she ever said that, more that she didn’t bother to really spell out the reality to them. From that perspective I can see why Caitlyn and Taylor feel taken advantage of but thier anger is directed at the wrong place.

[MargeGunderson]

@FozzyBear, I get what you’re saying, but if I remember the adoption contract that someone posted (it was the one that Cate and Tyler signed) it was clear that everything was at the discretion of the adoptive parents. It wasn’t in legalese but plain English. I do think Dawn painted them the rosiest possible picture, but as adults they can absolutely understand it. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[FozzyBear]

5 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

@FozzyBear, I get what you’re saying, but if I remember the adoption contract that someone posted (it was the one that Cate and Tyler signed) it was clear that everything was at the discretion of the adoptive parents. It wasn’t in legalese but plain English. I do think Dawn painted them the rosiest possible picture, but as adults they can absolutely understand it. 

Oh I agree! I don’t think they were lied to. Just allowed to indulge in some wishful thinking. They were teenagers and not very sophisticated and I thought it was obvious they thought Brandon and Teressa were agreeing to something more binding then they were. I’m just trying to acknowledge giving up a child is probably traumatic, even if it is a good decision.

However that was 13 years ago and they have had enough time to try and make peace with what happened. At this point they are using Carly to stay on TV and it grosses me out. Just respect her parents wishes and stop.

[PicnicLife77]

13 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

@FozzyBear, I get what you’re saying, but if I remember the adoption contract that someone posted (it was the one that Cate and Tyler signed) it was clear that everything was at the discretion of the adoptive parents. It wasn’t in legalese but plain English. I do think Dawn painted them the rosiest possible picture, but as adults they can absolutely understand it. 

I agree except that they weren't adults. 

[MargeGunderson]

4 minutes ago, PicnicLife77 said:

I agree except that they weren't adults. 

They are now, and have had several years to wrap their head around even boundaries that B&T have set. Cate and Tyler bitch about B&T but I don’t recall them bitching about being misled by Dawn. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[Mothra]

42 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

I also got the feeling that Dawn led them to believe that an open adoption is like a custody agreement, but it’s not. At least in the State I live in it’s more like a goal or an understanding. But it’s not actually legally enforceable in either direction. Open adoption doesn’t mean that birth parents can demand to see the kids, just like the parents can’t demand that birth parents see the kids either. It’s like going to pre-marital counseling and agreeing you want 3 kids and a dog. That’s not a legally enforceable agreement. It’s just people trying to be honest about how they feel. But I have my suspicions that Dawn knew they didn’t understand that and let them go on believing they would have legal rights to Carly after the adoption. I don’t think she ever said that, more that she didn’t bother to really spell out the reality to them. From that perspective I can see why Caitlyn and Taylor feel taken advantage of but thier anger is directed at the wrong place.

I had no idea.  I thought there was some kind of legal consideration in open adoption which guaranteed the birth parents some kind of minimal contact with the child.

Well, that makes Dawn even more of a jerk than I thought she was.  On the show (of course we don't know what she told them when we weren't listening) I think I recall her saying things like "It's entirely up to B&T how much contact you have with Carly," but I never got the clear message that they (C&T) really had no enforceable  rights to any relationship at all; more like "B&T get to decide which activities you get to engage in with Carly."  And C&T were kids at the time and didn't even know what questions to ask. 

[Cinnabon]

18 minutes ago, Mothra said:

I had no idea.  I thought there was some kind of legal consideration in open adoption which guaranteed the birth parents some kind of minimal contact with the child.

Well, that makes Dawn even more of a jerk than I thought she was.  On the show (of course we don't know what she told them when we weren't listening) I think I recall her saying things like "It's entirely up to B&T how much contact you have with Carly," but I never got the clear message that they (C&T) really had no enforceable  rights to any relationship at all; more like "B&T get to decide which activities you get to engage in with Carly."  And C&T were kids at the time and didn't even know what questions to ask. 

There can only be ONE set of parents. Catelyne and Tyler are in no way Carly’s parents.

[geauxaway]

42 minutes ago, Mothra said:

I had no idea.  I thought there was some kind of legal consideration in open adoption which guaranteed the birth parents some kind of minimal contact with the child.

It depends on the state.  For instance where I live, my state does not recognize “open” adoption.  There is no such thing.   I don’t know much about other states, for all I know no states have it.  Termination of parental rights, which is what legally happens when a child is placed for adoption, is just that.  The birth parents no longer have any rights to the child, including contact or information (that isn’t public record).  I am sure whatever contract or agreement they signed was just a Bethany document that isn’t legally binding, but more of a handshake or good faith type of agreement.  C&T were young and scared so they probably only read and interpreted what they wanted to fit their needs or wants.  And they still haven’t matured enough to come to terms with the reality of it. 

[FozzyBear]

I do not mean to paint myself as a legal expert in adoption. I am speaking from personal experience with 2 relatives that were adopted through open adoption. My understanding is that outside of an initial waiting period during which the birth parents can reclaim custody, there was no legal rights to be in the kids life. At different points in both these cases the birth parents were cut out (once for a brief period. Once for several years). The way Cait and Taylor still speak about it years later as if it was some sort of custody arrangement made me think they really did not fully grasp this going in.

 

[eskimo]

Cate and Tyler actually got very lucky and could have had (and for a while did have) the more open adoption that they thought they were getting.  But THEY ruined it.  If B&T weren't willing to be so open they would have never even considered bringing Carly to the wedding, especially at an age where she could remember some of it.  Theresa even bought matching keepsake pendants for her, Cate, and Carly to share. So IMO Cate and Tyler did have the set up they wanted...and blew it.  Majorly.  B & T were more than graceful in giving them chances, but they blew them up over and over. 

[iwantcookies]

The way C and T treat B and T will make Carly want nothing to do with them period. Trashing B and T constantly will bite them in the butt. I think Carly will stay far away from her bio family as an adult.

[Mr. Miner]

It’s a good bet that Cate won’t send monthly letters. It’s just a good thing to say to hack Dr. Drew at the reunion. Cate won’t follow through with micro blading. She’s too busy at the tattoo parlor and getting manicures. She’s probably has a whole pantry full of pregnancy tests. 

[iwantcookies]

44 minutes ago, Mr. Miner said:

It’s a good bet that Cate won’t send monthly letters. It’s just a good thing to say to hack Dr. Drew at the reunion. Cate won’t follow through with micro blading. She’s too busy at the tattoo parlor and getting manicures. She’s probably has a whole pantry full of pregnancy tests. 

It was Cates passion of the month to write to Carly.

[PicnicLife77]

3 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

They are now, and have had several years to wrap their head around even boundaries that B&T have set. Cate and Tyler bitch about B&T but I don’t recall them bitching about being misled by Dawn. 

IMO that's because they don't recognize that they've been misled by Dawn. I believe that's half the problem and why they blame "Brandandtheresa" as much as they do. 

[PicnicLife77]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

There can only be ONE set of parents. Catelyne and Tyler are in no way Carly’s parents.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that. Nor would I want them to be her parents. I think we're all just pointing out the perfect storm of a vague system, somewhat predatoryish practices, teen birth parents and lack of resources and healrhy family support. It's all culminated in this mess we are witnessing today. 

Even a couple episodes ago Dawn was incredibly vague and seemed to be encouraging more contact with Carly. For these two, I can see how they can't make sense out of it all. They need better guidance. 

And I'm one who believes once a month is a horribly intrusive amount. But nobody is telling them otherwise. 

[MargeGunderson]

11 hours ago, PicnicLife77 said:

IMO that's because they don't recognize that they've been misled by Dawn. I believe that's half the problem and why they blame "Brandandtheresa" as much as they do. 

I think they do realize that Dawn probably wasn’t as clear as she should have been. They don’t complain about her because she will come on the show and supply them with an ongoing storyline. 

[PicnicLife77]

Is Dawn also any type of "advisor" to B&T? I know she doesn't live in their area, but do we think she communicates with them? The time when they all met at the zoo she seemed to have facilitated that interaction. I just wonder what she says to B&T. 

[lilmarysunshine]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:48 AM, MargeGunderson said:

It doesn’t seem like there is anything preventing them from having contact with Carly, other than their insistence that it be on their terms. That tells me all I need to know about their sincerity when it comes to Carly. She’s a storyline for them. 

I tend to agree. I think a huge part of Teresa and Brandon's reticence is that Tyler and Catelynn insist on, at the very least, talking about Carly in front of millions of people. There is nothing private. If they could have a truly private relationship with Carly, I think they would be more open to it. But Catelyn has 3.7 million followers on Instagram. If those two TRULY cared about a relationship with Carly, they would get off social media and this show and the only people who would hear anything about Carly would be their family and friends. They will never willingly do that.

Being on this show was so damaging to them. Most of us don't have the luxury of all of the navel gazing they do about their passions and horses and poetry and house renovations. We have to go to work. Plus, ya know....it destroyed any kind of normal relationship with their birth daughter.

[PicnicLife77]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:12 PM, lilmarysunshine said:

I tend to agree. I think a huge part of Teresa and Brandon's reticence is that Tyler and Catelynn insist on, at the very least, talking about Carly in front of millions of people. There is nothing private. If they could have a truly private relationship with Carly, I think they would be more open to it. But Catelyn has 3.7 million followers on Instagram. If those two TRULY cared about a relationship with Carly, they would get off social media and this show and the only people who would hear anything about Carly would be their family and friends. They will never willingly do that.

Being on this show was so damaging to them. Most of us don't have the luxury of all of the navel gazing they do about their passions and horses and poetry and house renovations. We have to go to work. Plus, ya know....it destroyed any kind of normal relationship with their birth daughter.

The navel gazing! 😂 I'll admit I've done my share of it in trying to make sense out of my life, but the more I see and listen to them do it, the further I want to be from that way of life.

[Tatum]

The conversations Dawn had with C&T that were filmed (I guess I can't speak to what wasn't filmed) did not in any way show Dawn misleading C&T. She asked them specifically what kind of relationship C&T thought they would have with Carly's family, and all Cate said was she'd like to be able to call "sometimes" and she wanted to see "pitchers". Tyler did not express any wishes at all. I also feel that Dawn was pretty honest with them about the difficulty of giving up a child for adoption.

 

Bethany has come under a lot of accusations, and generally, where there is smoke, there's fire, but Dawn specifically was never shown doing anything morally or ethically questionable. None of the parties involved had any way of knowing this show would take off and film for 10+ years and that Cate and Tyler would morph from two sweet, well meaning teenagers to two self absorbed, entitled, delusional assholes.

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, Tatum said:

The conversations Dawn had with C&T that were filmed (I guess I can't speak to what wasn't filmed) did not in any way show Dawn misleading C&T. She asked them specifically what kind of relationship C&T thought they would have with Carly's family, and all Cate said was she'd like to be able to call "sometimes" and she wanted to see "pitchers". Tyler did not express any wishes at all. I also feel that Dawn was pretty honest with them about the difficulty of giving up a child for adoption.

 

Bethany has come under a lot of accusations, and generally, where there is smoke, there's fire, but Dawn specifically was never shown doing anything morally or ethically questionable. None of the parties involved had any way of knowing this show would take off and film for 10+ years and that Cate and Tyler would morph from two sweet, well meaning teenagers to two self absorbed, entitled, delusional assholes.

I don’t think Dawn did anything illegal, either. What more do people think she should have done?

[Tatum]

21 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I don’t think Dawn did anything illegal, either. What more do people think she should have done?

I read comments over and over on here about how Dawn misled C&T or made them think they'd be more involved in Carly's life than what what Brandon and Teresa were prepared to offer.

I've watched the episode multiple times. There is zero evidence of Dawn saying anything of the sort. I can't swear that she never said anything off camera, but there is nothing to suggest she did.

 

Cate and Tyler were completely respectful of B&T in the beginning and the four had a warm relationship. At no point during the first season of TM did C&T indicate they felt lied to or misled about what open adoption means. It was only after C&T turned into boundary crushing jerks that B&T pulled back. The only people to blame here are C&T.

[Cinnabon]

16 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I read comments over and over on here about how Dawn misled C&T or made them think they'd be more involved in Carly's life than what what Brandon and Teresa were prepared to offer.

I've watched the episode multiple times. There is zero evidence of Dawn saying anything of the sort. I can't swear that she never said anything off camera, but there is nothing to suggest she did.

 

Cate and Tyler were completely respectful of B&T in the beginning and the four had a warm relationship. At no point during the first season of TM did C&T indicate they felt lied to or misled about what open adoption means. It was only after C&T turned into boundary crushing jerks that B&T pulled back. The only people to blame here are C&T.

Agree. I’d really like to know what people think Dawn should have done differently in their case.

[CerealKiller813]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:49 PM, geauxaway said:

OMG Tyler’s boobs in that shirt.  ☠️   And WTH is Cate?  At first I thought she was wearing a hospital gown. Wow this is a very unflattering look for both of them.

I actually liked the top she had on. Am I in the minority here? Lol wow I guess I really don’t have a fashion sense. Oh wellers, just gonna depend on this brain of mine 🤣 

 

On 4/30/2021 at 7:17 PM, Mr. Miner said:

It’s a good bet that Cate won’t send monthly letters. It’s just a good thing to say to hack Dr. Drew at the reunion. Cate won’t follow through with micro blading. She’s too busy at the tattoo parlor and getting manicures. She’s probably has a whole pantry full of pregnancy tests. 

Way harsh Tai 🥺 (Clueless joke). I hope she does the letters as much as B & T will allow.

Edited November 28, 2021 by CerealKiller813
I needed to edit my thought