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S12.E16: Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace

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On 4/29/2021 at 12:28 AM, Airy2021 said:

I truly don't even understand these guys who continue to ask for "submissive women". Is this a thing??? Are there truly women willing to just be meek, unassertive doormats to their spouses? Isn't marriage a partnership? There is something SO grossly sexist about wanting a submissive wife to me. That just stinks of a need to have full control over your marriage and spouse. It's weird.

There's been a few submissive-type women on this show though.  Paige immediately comes to mind.  But also Danielle (Bobby) and Karen (Miles).   I don't know if Bobby requested a submissive woman, but he did let Danielle know early on that he wanted her to be a stay at home mom if they had kids.   Karen wanted to be submissive to her husband, her challenge was wanting to be submissive to Miles...LOL.  But in the end they worked it out.   I think Ashley/Anthony and Shawnice/Jephthe also had a certain amount of that dynamic in their relationship as well.  

 

On 4/29/2021 at 2:16 AM, Kip1 said:

I didn't get Vinnie cutting Brianna's hair. Vinnie set it up by telling Bri to close her eyes, that he had a surprise for her. Bri asked if it was a good surprise, on the level of cheesecake. Vinnie says yes and cuts one of her braids off. I presume Bri had said that she was planning to have her hair cut - but why would it be a good surprise for Vinnie to cut a random strand off. 

And Brianna - "bossy" is not a positive adjective. If your friends and family felt the need to mention your bossiness to strangers 5 or 6 times at your wedding, it would appear to be a problem and maybe you should work on it.  

The way I interpreted this scene was that Briana must have previously told Vinny she wanted to take down her braids.   Taking out braids can be time consuming and tedious, so he thought he was being helpful by cutting her braid (step 1 in braid extension removal) to help her take them out.   However, sounds like Brianna decided not to take out her braids that night.  So she was surprised that he cut her hair, but not particularly mad about it.   

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Just now, After7Only said:

There's been a few submissive-type women on this show though.  Paige immediately comes to mind.  But also Danielle (Bobby) and Karen (Miles).   I don't know if Bobby requested a submissive woman, but he did let Danielle know early on that he wanted her to be a stay at home mom if they had kids.   Karen wanted to be submissive to her husband, her challenge was wanting to be submissive to Miles...LOL.  But in the end they worked it out.   I think Ashley/Anthony and Shawnice/Jephthe also had a certain amount of that dynamic in their relationship as well.  

 

The way I interpreted this scene was that Briana must have previously told Vinny she wanted to take down her braids.   Taking out braids can be time consuming and tedious, so he thought he was being helpful by cutting her braid (step 1 in braid extension removal) to help her take them out.   However, sounds like Brianna decided not to take out her braids that night.  So she was surprised that he cut her hair, but not particularly mad about it.   

I would not call Danielle submissive at all.  She didn't want to stay home and I don't think she wanted kids.  It wasn't til she had them she decided she wanted to be home, so that was her choice.

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On 4/28/2021 at 8:35 PM, princelina said:

Interesting things from tonight:

Apparently Haley spent the final night at the apartment - "Last night was fun" she coyly smirks, and Jake agrees. Are we seriously supposed to be wondering if they had sex?  Please, show.

Erik will be renting his condo, not selling it 😄.  Smart move.

What was that with Vinnie cutting Brianna's hair?  Are they trying to stage a fight?  Also him walking out saying "nice knowing you"?  Very odd.  He needs to grow up, but her vow that she's "not changing anything about herself" is immature as well, especially since she wants to change his entire sleep schedule!

I too wonder what's really going on with Ryan and Clara behind the camera's back.

I wondered the same thing about Haley...she looked like a woman who got laid. The best I've seen her complexion. But it might have just been goodbye sex (if there is such a thing). Jake shouldn't worry a bit about being 40. Men's opportunities to date and lasso a good one only increase with age. Even Haley says he's loyal, always there, willing to help and she doesn't even like him that much. For lots of woman that means security and a damn good father and husband.

I thought Brianna and Vinny were the only sure thing...maybe not.

Ryan's babbling is incessant but it never leads to any firm conclusion. I don't think Clara is the one for him..but I do think she'd make a great wife for somebody.

Eric and Virginia- If anyone bails Virginia will. If Eric was smart he would. This was a matching failure more than anything.

Politics No match

Where to live: No match

Pet situation: No match

Party Habits: No match

Drinking habits: No match

Desire to have kids: No match

Hot for each others body semi match.

I think Eric is more enamored than with her looks and body...than she is with him. She really did look pretty and elegant at dinner.

I don't think its a matter of being controlling he has issues that are deal breakers. Wanting a wife to stay home when he is? That's a fairly common attribute. Wanting to have children isn't controlling its a fairly common and natural desire. Can you call not wanting his wife to party and pass out on her male friends couch controlling? Controlling is you'll wear this today, I'll order for you, we're going out tonight, were having sex right now. You can only speak to a friend for a half hour or not at all.

One of them should break it off. Love and sex doesn't conquer all.

Edited by DrewPaul2010 · Reason: Wrong name
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Virginia looked cleaned up when she went out to dinner, but that's not saying much.  She's somewhat cute but she's still got bad skin.   

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4 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Virginia looked cleaned up when she went out to dinner, but that's not saying much.  She's somewhat cute but she's still got bad skin.   

She does have a nice smile...skin will clear up eventually.

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13 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

I would not call Danielle submissive at all.  She didn't want to stay home and I don't think she wanted kids.  It wasn't til she had them she decided she wanted to be home, so that was her choice.

Yes, I recall the scenario where Danielle pointedly and directly told Bobby MANY times that her career meant the world to her, she loved her independence, felt conflicted about having children and would not be pushed or prodded by Bobby to change her views.  

Now, things are different; however, as you point out, it's by her CHOICE!

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19 minutes ago, After7Only said:

 I think Ashley/Anthony and Shawnice/Jephthe also had a certain amount of that dynamic in their relationship as well.  

Submissiveness? Interesting. I never thought of either of those women that way.

18 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

I would not call Danielle submissive at all.  She didn't want to stay home and I don't think she wanted kids.  It wasn't til she had them she decided she wanted to be home, so that was her choice.

I think they were a very low drama couple so the Show created that narrative for them.

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6 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I don't think it's true that no one with privilege serves.

 Absolutely. ESPECIALLY pilots of any kind. They tend to come from more well off families and think they are the shit.  Erik fits right into my experience of military pilots.

Source: married to a Marine that comes from three generations of Marines.

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Did you feel your chain getting yanked...?

Coy Haley and Smiley Jake smoking metaphoric post coital cigarettes, grinning and cooing at each other..*gag*heave*

Nope and nope.

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24 minutes ago, glitterpussy said:

 Absolutely. ESPECIALLY pilots of any kind. They tend to come from more well off families and think they are the shit.  Erik fits right into my experience of military pilots.

Source: married to a Marine that comes from three generations of Marines.

Then he should be giving her the heave ho...

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But, those with privilege don't serve in the military.

Agree with those who have disagreed with this. I think the majority of folks who enlist in the military may be from lower socioeconomic families, but plenty of people who enter as officers come from wealthier families. There are also, as someone said, people who enter the service as part of a family tradition and the elder generations have built quite a bit of wealth after military service.

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1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

Agree with those who have disagreed with this. I think the majority of folks who enlist in the military may be from lower socioeconomic families, but plenty of people who enter as officers come from wealthier families. There are also, as someone said, people who enter the service as part of a family tradition and the elder generations have built quite a bit of wealth after military service.

Totally agree with this - my Uncle was a pilot in the Air Force, and my cousin went to the Air Force Academy for college, graduated and became a pilot. He then went on to work at the Pentagon. Officers are educated and many times have long standing family connections. Kids who enlist as a private right out of high school are more likely the ones that don't come from family money.

Erik's family strike me as the former, what with their private hangar and collection of planes......

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4 hours ago, princelina said:

I think it will make him look better - people are suspicious of the never-married!  It will give him an "in" with the divorced-lady crowd 😄

Would it tho? Does he really want to claim being married by a show (cuz he couldn't on his own) or say it doesn't count? I think he might get sympathy since Haley was his wife, but it wasn't really a marriage. He said it was a long, bad 1st date! I think they were talking about the dinner. That was a good time. 😂 At least she got to see him leave their apartment.... for the last time!

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1 hour ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

Then he should be giving her the heave ho...

Most definitely.  100% YES!

The thing that confuses and irritates me the MOST is that Erik must know that this entire "train wreck" of a "relationship" on this reality TV show is nestled snuggly on the Internet for all eternity.

That mans that all his "billing and cooing" to this woman who has a # of questionable traits, habits and behaviors that are readily apparent to anyone with 2 eyes, 2 ears and a brain, will live on in perpetuity for all the world to see and comment upon.

I'm not disputing VA's absolute right to be who she is but instead emphasizing her contrasts with Erik's stated traditions, values and beliefs.

Does he not realize and appreciate that some day (speculation based upon his statements) he will FINALLY find a suitable mate to marry and, as he has stated, have children who will have full exposure to his nauseating and desperate behavior toward VA.  It's not like it's a transient, alcohol-induced spate of conversations and slobbering.  It's week after week after week!

In the realm of a supposedly dignified and self-respecting man, Erik has succeeded in making a total and complete fool of himself.

How will he EVER get his reputation back?  His behavior on this show is something I believe he will never overcome but, in the interests of human compassion and a benevolent heart I hope I'm wrong.

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31 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

Then he should be giving her the heave ho...

Most definitely.  100% YES!

The thing that confuses and irritates me the MOST is that Erik must know that this entire "train wreck" of a "relationship" on this reality TV show is nestled snuggly on the Internet for all eternity.

That mans that all his "billing and cooing" to this woman who has a # of questionable traits, habits and behaviors that are readily apparent to anyone with 2 eyes, 2 ears and a brain, will live on in perpetuity for all the world to see and comment upon.

 

He did act desperate most of the time to jam that square into a circle. He sounded like he made up his mind to stay committed to someone really based on being attracted (and sex I assume) then on a good foundation. Yeah he'll probably get ragged on for being so pussy whipped. They really haven't budged on the many issues that beset them. He thinks just talking about it without strangling each other is progress. I hope he takes 24 hours to really do some serious introspection and realize they will be a miserable couple together. He should just look and say sorry baby two many irreconcilable differences between us. But you can come over and pass out on my couch anytime...

 

 

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1 hour ago, pdlinda said:

Most definitely.  100% YES!

The thing that confuses and irritates me the MOST is that Erik must know that this entire "train wreck" of a "relationship" on this reality TV show is nestled snuggly on the Internet for all eternity.

That mans that all his "billing and cooing" to this woman who has a # of questionable traits, habits and behaviors that are readily apparent to anyone with 2 eyes, 2 ears and a brain, will live on in perpetuity for all the world to see and comment upon.

I'm not disputing VA's absolute right to be who she is but instead emphasizing her contrasts with Erik's stated traditions, values and beliefs.

Does he not realize and appreciate that some day (speculation based upon his statements) he will FINALLY find a suitable mate to marry and, as he has stated, have children who will have full exposure to his nauseating and desperate behavior toward VA.  It's not like it's a transient, alcohol-induced spate of conversations and slobbering.  It's week after week after week!

In the realm of a supposedly dignified and self-respecting man, Erik has succeeded in making a total and complete fool of himself.

How will he EVER get his reputation back?  His behavior on this show is something I believe he will never overcome but, in the interests of human compassion and a benevolent heart I hope I'm wrong.

THIS!   I completely agree.   The average dude wouldn't be too affected by all this, but Eric's scene is more conservative and has "standards" - so this would be a major deal for him later in life, and not in a good way.

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8 hours ago, princelina said:
12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I don't even think it would be that hard for a divorced man to date after 40, especially one who is fit and has a good job. I've seen much worse-looking men Jake's age and older on the apps. If he wants kids his wife gives birth to, he might have to marry someone younger, but lots of men do that. And I agree - basically anything would be better than being married to someone who clearly does not like you. What's the point? Just so you can say you're married? Not worth it, IMO.

I think it will make him look better - people are suspicious of the never-married!  It will give him an "in" with the divorced-lady crowd 😄

As an older woman ... let me tell you that dating definitely favors guys as people age.  So much so, that I don't get why Jake keeps mentioning it!  

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On 4/29/2021 at 7:52 AM, ByTor said:

Please keep discussion to what happened on this episode of MAFS, not what happened on Unfiltered, and not the meaning of political/non-political t-shirts. Thanks, and happy posting!

Is there a place where we can go for Unfiltered discussion?  If not, then this would seem to be the only place, since we can't go to the Media forum because there are spoilers.

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14 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Is there a place where we can go for Unfiltered discussion?  If not, then this would seem to be the only place, since we can't go to the Media forum because there are spoilers.

You're perfectly welcome to make a topic here if that's something people would be interested in 🙂

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Just finished and here are my takeaways:

Brianna, you can't tell Vincent you find him "unorganized" (I get annoyed by that because I was taught the word is "disorganized")- in your pompous, holier-than-thou way ("I figured I could help you with that," she says)- but then cry to mommy when he mentions your "bossiness" and say "that is insulting my character!" Stick with one rule. Either criticism is allowed, or it isn't.

I think producers just made Jake and Haley act like they got along and make the "maybeeee" statements just because they are pretty much done and boring. And Jake, that t-shirt was heinous. Looked like one of your dogs wrestled with it.

This week Erik has ramped up the neediness and I really, truly think he is just seeing exactly what he wants to see.  People who just have an "instant connection" don't spend the first, very early weeks of their new relationship fighting. Yes, they are married so that makes things a bit different, but I'm not seeing what he's describing. The more he drools over her, desperately trying to keep her around, the more she looks bored.  But then again, we could be seeing producer manipulation as well.  And as a petty aside, I find him overly exaggerated and especially annoying when he overreacts to things he finds funny with his fake laugh, tongue out and shoulders hunched.  He is very unappealing to me.

Ryan is terrified.  Clara is desperate.  Another couple who say that they are so well-matched, everything is great, blah blah... but I don't believe it.  And Ryan has really turned on the analytical stuff. He should pull out an excel spreadsheet and rate her and make his decision that way.

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Virginia's Up-talk annoys me to no end.  It's every senTENCE.  She up-talks the end of every single sentence, and it gets so tiring to hear her voice rise constantly.  

That and her alcoholic skin.  I'm more than twice her age, and trust me, as you age, it gets so so so much worse.  I can spot a drinkaholic 50-something from a mile away, just from their skin.

Ryan heaving that football so close to Clara honestly scared me a bit.  Wonder why she didn't move out of the way?  I'm sure his aim was great, but sheesh, it's a game.  Chill.

I don't get how Clara keeps saying he's the one for her.  Does the "one" never ever ever tell you how he feels?  Does the "one" keep you guessing constantly?  Does the "one" over analyze every microscopic angle of everything in life?  I like Clara more & more.  I didn't at first.  She's who she is, she owns it, donuts for lunch & all.

Jake will have no trouble on the open market, once Haley dumps him.  So he wears torn sleeveless shirts & probably watches Ferris Bueller on a loop.  So what.  He's also warm, compassionate, has a really funny, dry sense of humor, and is super cute to boot.  At least I think so.  I don't get the "serial killer vibes" that others have gotten.  I've dated enough to know when there's someone you should hang onto.

Vinny:  Saying you're turned off by the term "bossy" is not a bad thing.  I don't get why this is an issue.  It was said multiple times during the wedding ceremony.  Who, other than some meek milquetoast, would want to be with someone bossy?

While Briana is adorable, professional, etc., yes, she is bossy.  She herself said she "can't" change.  She makes Vinny wake up earlier than he wants to, criticizes him, and basically will keep him on eggshells.  I grew up with parents who had the Briana/Vinny dynamic.  Vinny will be this amazing, full-of-heart father, but nothing he does will ever be quite right for Briana.  I watched it for my entire life, and I don't see long term happiness here.  

Edited by Starlight925
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I get Haley. I'd want a guy I could share laughs with & be proud to be seen with because of his style. I think his style wasn't too bad, but his boots definitely were. I wouldn't want to be seen with him when he wears his attention-seeking clothes. I'm not sure that could change. Maybe with time & a better connection it'd be a shared joke. That's weird that's the scenario her friend posed. His clothes & humor. Sure. He'd say that AFTER the experiment's OVER... like the 8 weeks didn't count. Stupid. 😂 He was hung up on her not being attracted, but did he ask what SPECIFICALLY she wasn't attracted to to see if he could change it?? I guess the unspoken idea was Haley was trying to make him attractive (with the shirts), but she was so critical of him. It's all about her. She's a giant RED FLAG!! Knocking him for being single at his age. GTFOH!! Did she care how unattractive her behavior was? She never apologized, only defended. She was horrible to him. Good on Jacob for staying calm. It would've been even better if he didn't call her out & instead said something like, "I'd say your tone was rude, but it doesn't even matter at this point cuz you don't matter." 😂 Seriously. Why did he even bother when he knows she'll just deny & defend. She's a joke. Saying all she's learned... that hasn't been shown in her marriage! Ha!

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13 hours ago, KateHearts said:

And Ryan has really turned on the analytical stuff. He should pull out an excel spreadsheet and rate her and make his decision that way.

7.5

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2 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

Virginia's Up-talk annoys me to no end.  It's every senTENCE.  She up-talks the end of every single sentence, and it gets so tiring to hear her voice rise constantly.  

That and her alcoholic skin.  I'm more than twice her age, and trust me, as you age, it gets so so so much worse.  I can spot a drinkaholic 50-something from a mile away, just from their skin.

Ryan heaving that football so close to Clara honestly scared me a bit.  Wonder why she didn't move out of the way?  I'm sure his aim was great, but sheesh, it's a game.  Chill.

I don't get how Clara keeps saying he's the one for her.  Does the "one" never ever ever tell you how he feels?  Does the "one" keep you guessing constantly?  Does the "one" over analyze every microscopic angle of everything in life?  I like Clara more & more.  I didn't at first.  She's who she is, she owns it, donuts for lunch & all.

Jake will have no trouble on the open market, once Haley dumps him.  So he wears torn sleeveless shirts & probably watches Ferris Bueller on a loop.  So what.  He's also warm, compassionate, has a really funny, dry sense of humor, and is super cute to boot.  At least I think so.  I don't get the "serial killer vibes" that others have gotten.  I've dated enough to know when there's someone you should hang onto.

Vinny:  Saying you're turned off by the term "bossy" is not a bad thing.  I don't get why this is an issue.  It was said multiple times during the wedding ceremony.  Who, other than some meek milquetoast, would want to be with someone bossy?

While Briana is adorable, professional, etc., yes, she is bossy.  She herself said she "can't" change.  She makes Vinny wake up earlier than he wants to, criticizes him, and basically will keep him on eggshells.  I grew up with parents who had the Briana/Vinny dynamic.  Vinny will be this amazing, full-of-heart father, but nothing he does will ever be quite right for Briana.  I watched it for my entire life, and I don't see long term happiness here.  

Fantastic points all around!!  I can not stand Virginia's uptalk- what guy is attracted to someone who constantly sounds uncertain of herself?!  And Brianna's baby voice- such a turn off and really makes her sound unintelligent.  Vinny is an overly sensitive, domineering, aimless man with delusions of grandeur and ill fitting clothing.  Brianna will be forever completely dimming her light in order to live in his shadow.

Ryan is an emotionally unavailable man who deliberates and stalls over any and all decisions- he's kept women waiting in relationships for months and years with little in return.  I bet he'd keep a line waiting at Baskin Robbins.  I can't deal with men like him who think they're a walking Ted Talk of knowledge every moment- he's in his own ass everyday with nothing to really say.  Clara needs to call it quits on Ryan; he's withholding in and out of bed.  I initially didn't like Clara, but when she wolfed down those donuts with reckless abandon on national television, I knew she was my kind of gal pal.

Jake is a lot of fun and a refreshing change from the other guys: he doesn't take himself too seriously, he's a man of few words and is darkly funny, he has great facial structure and a very strong body, and he is far from basic and unabashedly himself.  I find his love for the 80's really charming since 80's pop culture and working out to 80's exercise VHS tapes are some of my hobbies aside from watercolor painting and cooking/baking.  Sure, Jake could use some fashion direction, but an experienced stylist could honor his love for the 80's with retro touches incorporated into a more modern look- marginal changes needed compared to the blaring red flags in the other men's personalities and conduct in relationships.  

All of these men and women should have looked for love on their own no matter how long it takes rather than leaving it up to a casting agency with slim pickings and "experts" with scripted responses, limited availability and zero accountability for their choices.  

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22 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Agree with those who have disagreed with this. I think the majority of folks who enlist in the military may be from lower socioeconomic families, but plenty of people who enter as officers come from wealthier families. There are also, as someone said, people who enter the service as part of a family tradition and the elder generations have built quite a bit of wealth after military service.

Agree. I’ve known both groups. I’ve known more middle class military service people and super wealthy ones. It goes both ways. My one friends husband is a doctor In the military and they own two 5,000 square foot homes and have a boat. He came from money and joined the service out of family tradition. Legacy is often a huge part of it and I’m guessing that’s how Erik’s family is. Kind of like the McCain family. All of the men in that family are in the military and they are loaded. Granted, there are politics and inheritances involved but still...legacy. 

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4 hours ago, Lindz said:

I get Haley. I'd want a guy I could share laughs with & be proud to be seen with because of his style. I think his style wasn't too bad, but his boots definitely were. I wouldn't want to be seen with him when he wears his attention-seeking clothes. I'm not sure that could change. Maybe with time & a better connection it'd be a shared joke. That's weird that's the scenario her friend posed. His clothes & humor. Sure. He'd say that AFTER the experiment's OVER... like the 8 weeks didn't count. Stupid. 😂 He was hung up on her not being attracted, but did he ask what SPECIFICALLY she wasn't attracted to to see if he could change it?? I guess the unspoken idea was Haley was trying to make him attractive (with the shirts), but she was so critical of him. It's all about her. She's a giant RED FLAG!! Knocking him for being single at his age. GTFOH!! Did she care how unattractive her behavior was? She never apologized, only defended. She was horrible to him. Good on Jacob for staying calm. It would've been even better if he didn't call her out & instead said something like, "I'd say your tone was rude, but it doesn't even matter at this point cuz you don't matter." 😂 Seriously. Why did he even bother when he knows she'll just deny & defend. She's a joke. Saying all she's learned... that hasn't been shown in her marriage! Ha!

I’m with you on this. Haley is no prize and she’s uptight but Jake is one weird dude. I would be mortified if I had been paired with him. His sense of humor and dry personality would cause me to tear my hair out. His style is awful but that’s not a deal breaker to me like his personality is. He’s not physically ugly but he’s not my type. He’s just too odd for my liking. I don’t get all the Jake love on here. But, we all like what we like I guess!

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Haley would be a great second wife of a widower with preteen kids if he was a Roll Tide alum frat boy...his chapter's past President...

The friendly, everyone likes good guy who has stayed connected to his frat brothers and their families, goes to games if it doesn't conflict with the kids' sports and likes that Haley gets along great with the kids when they are over every other weekend.

He likes her sorority sisters and gets that she needs occasional girls' weekends to reconnect with them. He doesn't want anymore kids unless Haley wants a kid.

Their house is set up for entertaining their large friends groups.

Think Dad bod, polo shirt with a cotton sweater tied around the shoulders, khakis, Topsiders.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Haley gets along great with the kids when they are over every other weekend.

If he is a widower, where are the kids the rest of the time? Haley would NOT be a good step-mom - even part-time.

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29 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

If he is a widower, where are the kids the rest of the time? Haley would NOT be a good step-mom - even part-time.

With the grandparents on their mother's side...

 

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Jake's ideal woman is one that is the female version of himself...

Workout together in their basement fully decked out home gym.

Both work in IT from home.

Both drive Jeeps, hers is red.

Each have their own kitchen counter of powdered supplements, pills

Cook a dozen eggs...8 for him , 4 for her

Steak for 2.

She does body building competitions like he used to but now he's her support team.

Kids...may/not be in the future since they have each other totally in synch...

 

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@KateHearts  If you look a couple weeks back you will see some pictures someone posted of "Erik and his first wife".  The guy doesn't look like Erik to me, but some people think it's him and that he must have had plastic surgery.  You might want to take a look and judge for yourself.

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15 hours ago, KateHearts said:

What's this about Erik having facial surgery?

Since this is an episode thread, I'll just say that you have to google Erik and first wife and sift through till you find the pics.  There may be spoilers out there, so just be aware.  Basically, he had a nose job.  I think he was perfectly cute before, and I think he's perfectly cute now.  It's his insides I don't like.

His first wife was beautiful, really stunning.  Makes Virginia look like leftovers at a bake sale.  I don't get his affection for Virginia at all, either physically or emotionally.  I just don't see it.  I do think that for him, these are real feelings, and that for Virginia, she's meh about him. 

Decision Day will be interesting.  

I don't know any spoilers, but my hunch:  Erik:  Yes, Virginia:  No.

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On 4/30/2021 at 4:06 PM, DrewPaul2010 said:

Then he should be giving her the heave ho...

🎶 From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli! 🎶 (Erik and Virginia)

I'm not getting a secret-sexy-time vibe between Jake and Haley so much as a detente. 

 

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1 hour ago, Starlight925 said:

Since this is an episode thread, I'll just say that you have to google Erik and first wife and sift through till you find the pics.  There may be spoilers out there, so just be aware.  Basically, he had a nose job.  I think he was perfectly cute before, and I think he's perfectly cute now.  It's his insides I don't like.

His first wife was beautiful, really stunning.  Makes Virginia look like leftovers at a bake sale.  I don't get his affection for Virginia at all, either physically or emotionally.  I just don't see it.  I do think that for him, these are real feelings, and that for Virginia, she's meh about him. 

Decision Day will be interesting.  

I don't know any spoilers, but my hunch:  Erik:  Yes, Virginia:  No.

But maybe Wife #1 didn't grab Erik by his face to smooooch! He was figuratively, because he was almost literally, bowled over by Virginia at the altar! 

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26 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I'm not getting a secret-sexy-time vibe between Jake and Haley so much as a detente. 

Yeah that's what I was thinking.

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There is definitely a privilege that comes with being a military officer, especially if you come from a family who served for several generations. And I say that meaning that you have likely benefitted from and built a solid, generational upper middle class wealth, and also that you carry a sense of prestige and belonging. It's not hard to see that in Erik.

Someone up thread said that wealthy families don't join the military and I tend to agree with that, especially when you talk about "new" money (tech, real estate, etc). But for many years, the military was seen as a necessary first step in a family that had political or upwardly mobile ambitions, and that tends to get passed from generation to generation...it's not EVERYONE in the officer ranks, but there is definitely a subset. (My dad was an AF Officer and I have worked for very senior leaders in the Army so I've seen it / lived it my whole life.)

And sorry, if your family has it's own hangar, they're well-off. Maybe not rich, whatever that means nowadays, but way beyond middle-class.

One of the Erik/Virginia issues from the beginning, to me, is Erik's tendency to be paternalistic to Virginia. It's weird and gross. I don't think he sees her as an equal. And Virginia tends to come off like a whiny little girl in trying to stand up for herself. 

 

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This season hasn’t been very good. It looks like they could all part ways at decision day. And I wouldn’t care. 

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I just read the comments and decided not to. I am not sorry. I don't know if I will watch tomorrow, either. Just fake drama about them leaving for Decision Day.

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On 5/3/2021 at 10:57 AM, Nancybeth said:

One of the Erik/Virginia issues from the beginning, to me, is Erik's tendency to be paternalistic to Virginia. It's weird and gross. I don't think he sees her as an equal. And Virginia tends to come off like a whiny little girl in trying to stand up for herself. 

Yes, I don't think he sees her as an equal.  I don't either. She is reckless with her life while Erik has been very planful. I'd be totally on her side up if she stood up to Erik as a strong, intelligent, sober, mature woman. But she doesn't because she isn't. (You get a pass on two or three episodes of passing out on someone's sofa in life and you turn in the card at ~24. I don't see her standing up for herself, but fighting for her immature lifestyle. She's almost proud of not progressing in life.) Erik wants a partner not a rebellious teenager. I doubt he would patronize any of the women I know. . . 

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18 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I just read the comments and decided not to. I am not sorry. I don't know if I will watch tomorrow, either. Just fake drama about them leaving for Decision Day.

Worse! It's couples from previous seasons making predictions!

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I'm torn about watching tonight's episode because I don't really like Karen and Miles as a couple; I think they're trying to keep up appearances, but she's never really been attracted to or interested in him and has kind of resigned to staying in the marriage for Youtube/Influencer income.  Miles is a generous, people pleaser and I think he likes trying to win her over- but I don't think Karen will ever match or surpass his feelings. Karen came off as aloof in her season and I am not a fan of hers.  

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2 hours ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

I'm torn about watching tonight's episode because I don't really like Karen and Miles as a couple; I think they're trying to keep up appearances, but she's never really been attracted to or interested in him and has kind of resigned to staying in the marriage for Youtube/Influencer income.  Miles is a generous, people pleaser and I think he likes trying to win her over- but I don't think Karen will ever match or surpass his feelings. Karen came off as aloof in her season and I am not a fan of hers.  

I'm not torn because I decided to watch it with my FF remote firmly in hand.  I completely agree with you about Karen and Miles.  Once Karen understood what was expected of her to maintain her marriage with Miles for the status and $$$ involved, IMO she chose to do so. However, regardless of how hard she tries, I've never seen the "spark" of romance in her eyes.

That said, talking about those who seem to be "phoning it in" this season (regardless of what they decide to do on DD0 I would include:  Ryan, VA, Haley and Jake.  

Regarding Brianna and Vinny, I hope she comes to her senses and understands that he will be a permanent drain on her resources, including emotional, financial, and intellectual.  Regarding, Erik, he will hopefully re-engage his brain and focus on the reality of his "marriage."

I refuse to include the 2 deplorables (who shall remain nameless) in any discussion of this season as it was utterly reckless and disrespectful of the producers to have included them in the cast.  Also, and I hold BOTH of them equally responsible for wasting the audience's time and attention under such false pretenses and hope BOTH consider not exposing themselves to further derision and humiliation by continuing to remain on social media to try and salvage their reputation(s).

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Why this pause in the show with nonsense!  Let's get this over with!

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2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Why this pause in the show with nonsense!  Let's get this over with!

It's always about the BOTTOM LINE.  Whatever $$$ the producers can "milk" out of the sponsors for whatever drivel they put on camera is what they're aiming for, it seems. 

After this season, I'm becoming a bit jaded and cynical regarding any "reality" that may eclipse the audacity of the "experts" in sliming the institution of marriage by trying to promote it with the "odd couples" they insisted on featuring this season.  

 

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13 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I'm not torn because I decided to watch it with my FF remote firmly in hand.  I completely agree with you about Karen and Miles.  Once Karen understood what was expected of her to maintain her marriage with Miles for the status and $$$ involved, IMO she chose to do so. However, regardless of how hard she tries, I've never seen the "spark" of romance in her eyes.

Totally agree.  She was never attracted to him.

11 hours ago, pdlinda said:

After this season, I'm becoming a bit jaded and cynical regarding any "reality" that may eclipse the audacity of the "experts" in sliming the institution of marriage by trying to promote it with the "odd couples" they insisted on featuring this season.  

I've been a fan since the first episode, but the cracks really started showing for me last season when they picked Henry as a good marriage candidate.  I don't believe any woman would have been successful with him (and yes, I know Christina was no prize either).  

But this year has really affirmed to me how the show could care less about the hopes and dreams of the people who want to find love and want to be married and are so desperate they would have strangers pick a mate for them.  I also kind of knew but didn't acknowledge just how much the producers influence the experts in choosing the candidates.  All of us here said Virginia and Chris would be terrible mates for anyone and should not be on the show.  ALL OF US.  Paige was the lamb the show was willing to sacrifice in order to get Chris, as they knew he would get peoples' blood boiling and therefore increase ratings.  Never mind that they were setting Eric up for Divorce #2 with a woman/child who only saw the worst of marriage with her parents many divorces, but also clearly, even to the untrained eye, has a problem with alcohol. 

This is the first year I've skipped whole episodes because I'm just not interested in the outcome of any of them....maybe Clara and Ryan but that's it.

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On 4/30/2021 at 4:09 PM, Doublemint said:

THIS!   I completely agree.   The average dude wouldn't be too affected by all this, but Eric's scene is more conservative and has "standards" - so this would be a major deal for him later in life, and not in a good way.

Why would a conservative have more standards? Virginia might have problems too later in life because of the filming. I think everybody has standards.

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On 5/6/2021 at 7:33 AM, JapMo said:

This is the first year I've skipped whole episodes because I'm just not interested in the outcome of any of them....

I second that emotion.

 

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ByTor

Please keep the conversation to matters that happened on this show. Debates on the meaning of t-shirts, and what happened on other TV shows is off limits. Thank you.

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