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"Stan" culture

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On 4/25/2021 at 2:44 PM, Danny Franks said:

Anyone familiar with the professional wrestler Jon Moxley might have heard about the crazy people on tumblr who concocted the fiction that the woman he's now married to had completely fabricated the lie that they were in a relationship, and was actually a psychopath who was sleeping with loads of wrestlers at the WWE. These were real people, not movie or TV characters, yet his supposed fans would completely deny reality to fuel their own fantasies.

I realize this is late, but could you provide some links? I am a wrestling fanatic  who spends WAY too much time interacting with  the Internet Wrestling Community (just ask Mr Rat) and I never read ANYTHING about this. I don't do tumblr so maybe that is why.  In my experience the stanning in the IWC is more promotion versus promotion - the big rivalry over the last couple of years being, obviously, AEW vs. WWE. Also obviously the indies vs. the TV promotions.

Edited by ratgirlagogo

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I maintain my previous opinion that the worst fans by far are some of the sports fans, particularly football fans. By far.

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Carrie Fisher, Mary Tyler Moore and Robin Williams hit me the hardest. Carrie Fisher played my childhood hero and Mary Tyler Moore had played my mother's childhood hero. Robin Williams was so funny and didn't know he had any problems. I know you never really know any actor or actress and anyone can be suicidal but Robin Williams? It was just heartbreaking. Debbie Reynolds dying the day after her daughter. Heartbreaking and for their remaining family. 

Edited by andromeda331
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1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Carrie Fisher, Mary Tyler Moore and Robin Williams hit me the hardest. Carrie Fisher played my childhood hero Carrie Fisher and Mary Tyler Moore had played my mother's childhood hero. Robin Williams was so funny and didn't know he had any problems. I know you never really know any actor or actress and anyone can be suicidal but Robin Williams? It was just heartbreaking. Debbie Reynolds dying the day after her daughter. Heartbreaking and for their remaining family. 

Princess Diana and Alan Rickman I actually cried when they died..

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4 minutes ago, Nicmar said:

Princess Diana and Alan Rickman I actually cried when they died..

Diana's death was a such a shock. Its still really sad to me. Its always extra sad to me when someone dies just as their making a new start.  The divorce was official and they were both moving on with their lives. Diana seemed so happy. I really wanted to see what she would do with her life.  

Alan Rickman was such a good actor and in so many great roles. 

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News that a famous person died doesn't make me cry. A Kodak commercial with a father/daughter wedding dance does.

We all have our thresholds.

 

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Rickman's death made me very sad because it was unexpected and he was still working. So many things he might've been in that I'd want to see.

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Alan Rickman was such a good actor and in so many great roles. 

Critically under-nomianted, too (if that's a word). Granted, an actor's worth shouldn't be measured by how many major nominations they have received, but that fact that he had so few throughout his career is a good example for those making the case at how worthless award shows are.

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Chris Collins and Carrie Fisher. I was never much of a Star Wars fan but Stephen Fry's documentary about being bipolar had her talk about this and I was so impressed by her courage and her sense of humor that I became an instant admirer. 

Chris Collins hit me hard. His voice was one of a kind.

Those are the only ones that I cried over.

Robin Williams didn't surprise me at all. I always found him way too manic. He never seemed to be able to stop. So, he always made me uncomfortable without ever quite knowing why. I loved him for Goodwill Hunting, though.

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On 7/15/2021 at 8:32 AM, JustHereForFood said:

I maintain my previous opinion that the worst fans by far are some of the sports fans,

Nobody hates professional wrestling more than professional wrestling fans. Sad but true.

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On 4/26/2021 at 6:59 AM, Llywela said:

Exhibit A here being Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki from Supernatural. Both have been married with kids for years, and still 'J2' shippers insist the wives and children are mere beards for their 'true' relationship. 🙄

A dear friend of mine was into Supernatural years ago and even though I never watched it, she got me invested in the insanity of that fandom.  I will never, ever forget the person on Twitter who has absolutely outraged and disgusted by those who thought Jared & Jensen were together in real life....and yet if you scrolled down her feed, you'd see that she very seriously believed that Harry and Louis from One Direction were dating and that the baby Louis had with some woman was a fake doll lol.  Insane and hilarious.

I was a soap fan back in the day and lord knows those fan wars were absolutely vicious, but "standom" really is a whole other beast thanks to social media.  I've been a royal fan for ages, and have always been able to curate my accounts so I could enjoy all things royalty in peace, but the H&M "squad" makes that nearly impossible now.  Even when you hide/block/mute, Twitter still lets a ton of it through. 

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3 minutes ago, TaraS1 said:

I was a soap fan back in the day and lord knows those fan wars were absolutely vicious, but "standom" really is a whole other beast thanks to social media.  I've been a royal fan for ages, and have always been able to curate my accounts so I could enjoy all things royalty in peace, but the H&M "squad" makes that nearly impossible now.  Even when you hide/block/mute, Twitter still lets a ton of it through. 

I have not seen anything outrageous coming out of the Sussex Squad on Twitter.  I did make the mistake of reading the comment section on a gossip site about Harry and Meghan.  It was interesting.  I did laugh when the commenters had differing theories even though they are all anti-Meghan.  From Meghan not giving birth to either of her kids because of some video which shows her baby bump was fake, to Harry being unable to father a child and using both a surrogate and donor sperm, to Harry having a secret love child.  It really doesn't matter what the story is, just as long as Meghan is made to look bad.

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4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have not seen anything outrageous coming out of the Sussex Squad on Twitter. 

I wish I could say the same.  Twitter is quite the cesspool, no matter the subject lol

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7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have not seen anything outrageous coming out of the Sussex Squad on Twitter.  I did make the mistake of reading the comment section on a gossip site about Harry and Meghan.  It was interesting.  I did laugh when the commenters had differing theories even though they are all anti-Meghan.  From Meghan not giving birth to either of her kids because of some video which shows her baby bump was fake, to Harry being unable to father a child and using both a surrogate and donor sperm, to Harry having a secret love child.  It really doesn't matter what the story is, just as long as Meghan is made to look bad.

I have previously thought that Brits are generally much more polite and less, well, "crazy" than others, but the shit I have seen about Meghan made my head spin. And I am sure I have seen just a tiny bit, since that wasn't even Twitter, just youtube and online forums. Crazy. ☹️

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On 7/15/2021 at 8:22 AM, ratgirlagogo said:

I realize this is late, but could you provide some links? I am a wrestling fanatic  who spends WAY too much time interacting with  the Internet Wrestling Community (just ask Mr Rat) and I never read ANYTHING about this. I don't do tumblr so maybe that is why.  In my experience the stanning in the IWC is more promotion versus promotion - the big rivalry over the last couple of years being, obviously, AEW vs. WWE. Also obviously the indies vs. the TV promotions.

All the stuff I've seen was pulled from tumblr, but doesn't seem findable any more. The '#anti-rene young' tag still has some bits and pieces that are completely delusional and disturbing, claiming that their entire relationship, marriage and impending child is an elaborate lie that, somehow, Moxley himself isn't complicit in.

They seem to be a very special, unique breed of crazies that Jon Good/Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley has somehow attracted.

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On 7/15/2021 at 1:47 PM, andromeda331 said:

Carrie Fisher, Mary Tyler Moore and Robin Williams hit me the hardest. Carrie Fisher played my childhood hero 

When I watched the last Star Wars movie after Carrie's death I did cry. 

I do think there's a big difference though, between being sad/crying/grieving over a celeb who may have meant something to you, such as playing a character that really had an impact on you etc, and publicly making a big deal about how much you are grieving because the later just feels like a bid for attention to me, and a lot of stan behaviour strikes me as people desperate for attention by latching onto something/someone famous.

 

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the later just feels like a bid for attention to me

That's like 90% of the comments on a Youtube video.

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I really don’t know why people feel entitled to “review bomb” shows and movies they don’t like on sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB. If you don’t like something, fine, nobody has to agree on everything. But don’t ruin it for the people that do!

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30 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I really don’t know why people feel entitled to “review bomb” shows and movies they don’t like on sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB. If you don’t like something, fine, nobody has to agree on everything. But don’t ruin it for the people that do!

Agree but on the flip side I dislike it when performers, writers and/or producers attempt to claim that not only was their work flawlessly brilliant but that they had done it as a personal favor to the viewers so the viewers had better adore it! 

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33 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I really don’t know why people feel entitled to “review bomb” shows and movies they don’t like on sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB. If you don’t like something, fine, nobody has to agree on everything. But don’t ruin it for the people that do!

What is review bomb?

I'm fine with people giving low scores to things they hate.  I'm not fine with people giving low scores to things just because they feature women or POC and they would never watch but review anyway.

I especially hate when it's done to properties featuring POC, mainly women or gay characters because then it's hard for me to get a sense of how good the movie or TV show is when the reviews are being mixed with phobias or -isms

Edited by Irlandesa
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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

What is review bomb?

I'm fine with people giving low scores to things they hate.  I'm not fine with people giving low scores to things just because they feature women or POC and they would never watch but review anyway.

I especially hate when it's done to properties featuring POC, mainly women or gay characters because then it's hard for me to get a sense of how good the movie or TV show is when the reviews are being mixed with phobias or -isms

That’s exactly what I meant by “review bomb.” Get all their friends and followers to give it as many bad ratings as possible just for pure spite.

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On 7/24/2021 at 2:55 PM, Spartan Girl said:

That’s exactly what I meant by “review bomb.” Get all their friends and followers to give it as many bad ratings as possible just for pure spite.

I have only ever encountered this in the book world.  I'm torn on it because when it's an author I do not like I love it, but I have also seen the YA Twitter mob go off on an author for the smallest of infractions.  This particular mob does not comprehend nuance and have actually forced some writers to publicly disclose information that the author was not ready yet to reveal.  I get wanting to read Own Voices works of fiction, but not every author is ready to admit publicly to being on the LGBT+ spectrum or wants to share his/her medical history.  

Now when an author uses his/her social media to blast critical reviews because the reviewer dared to leave him/her less than 5 stars, or catfishing and stalking a reviewer over a less than positive review, or having your husband comment on all the less than positive reviews; then you deserve to get review bombed.  

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OK, considering that online reviews of anything (from hotels to movies to books,etc) are supposed to be  entirely random but honest opinions, I heartily dislike it when someone gets cronies to 'review bomb' something to try to artificially (and unfairly) get it to fail AND when someone urges cronies to put in as many 5-star, 10 points,A Plus, Thumbs Up,etc. reviews as possible to try to manipulate public opinion (and sales). IMO, everyone who has an interest in anything that's connected to online reviews should do nothing more than tell those in the know that the review sites exist- and let the now-informed individuals decide for themselves how things rate and/or not to review at all with the 'pitchers' accepting if not liking the individuals' honest calls on this! 

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When I look at online reviews of anything they seem to either be 5 star or 1 star. People either love it or hate it. I have never felt compelled to do an online review. Not even after reading Gone Girl.  I did  however read online reviews and found out most of my fellow readers felt the same way I did.  

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I only read negative reviews that are more than five sentences. A negative review that’s one word isn’t helpful. I came across a negative review of a book that was a couple paragraphs about why the book shouldn’t have included homosexuality. The rest of the reviews were five star. I knew I’d be happy to read that book.

Negative reviews are going to tell me if there are editing, continuity or spelling errors in the book. I especially love a negative review that quotes part of the text of a book and to illustrate the reason for the bad review. I might disagree with that review or have liked the passage quoted.

Positive reviews of book series are usually terrible. “X author has done it again!! This 38th installment in the Doodie Poo series is another winner. Doodie and her trusty sidekick, Gleep, find themselves trapped in a canoe as they try to solve the murder of Gleep’s heretofore never-mentioned rich aunt Esmerelda who left all of her money to charity for homeless cacti. With one viable suspect and seven red herrings, you’ll never guess the formula of this whodunit with a predictable twist! Way to go, Random Author! Can’t wait for the next one.”

I see stan-bombing with celebrity memoirs. There are plenty of those that are just not good, no matter how much I like the celebrity, (Hi there Julie Andrews.)

 

 

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Well, I mean, if the 38th installment finally raises awareness of the homeless cacti problem in this country, then I say kudos to Random Author.

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2 minutes ago, ABay said:

Well, I mean, if the 38th installment finally raises awareness of the homeless cacti problem in this country, then I say kudos to Random Author.

The follow up negative reviews complain that Random Author is buckling under “woke culture” and cacti are not homeless, have never been homeless and if they just went to the right church, those cacti would be happily potted and fertilized. The reviewer then flounces off declaring that after loving Random Author’s previous 37 novels, they will never read one again. 

Honest and helpful reviews are hard to come by. Goodreads is better than Amazon, but still. I’d been sucked into reading Tangerine by Christine Mangan. I wish I had read the reviews first. There are plenty of five stars which read like the inside of the dust cover, giving a small synopsis of the book, including questions like, “What will happen next?” And those are NOT reviews. Those are sales pitches.

I hated that book so much I wanted to write a negative review, but came across a truly fantastic one that explained everything that was awful about it. It was a long, detailed review with quotes. I liked that review and then made my sister like it as well. It was fabulous and made me follow that reviewer.

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Negative reviews can be a real work of art and are often more informative to me, when done well, than a positive review.

I disagreed with a lot of Roger Ebert's takes on movies, but oh my God, I love his negative reviews. When I am feeling down, I revisit them because they are so withering. 

When he gets a hold of a bad movie, Ignatiy Vishnevetsky writes some thoughtful but hilarious reviews too. 

I guess for me in general a red flag with someone is an inability to accept nuanced criticism of something they are a fan of. 

Edited by Zella
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9 minutes ago, Zella said:

Negative reviews can be a real work of art and are often more informative to me, when done well, than a positive review.

I disagreed with a lot of Roger Ebert's takes on movies, but oh my God, I love his negative reviews. When I am feeling down, I revisit them because they are so withering. 

When he gets a hold of a bad movie, Ignatiy Vishnevetsky writes some thoughtful but hilarious reviews too. 

The Amazon reviews of Battlefield Earth. *chef’s kiss*

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36 minutes ago, Zella said:

I disagreed with a lot of Roger Ebert's takes on movies, but oh my God, I love his negative reviews. When I am feeling down, I revisit them because they are so withering. 

I miss professional reviews.  I know a movie sucks when the reviews they use on the ads are from online sites I have never heard of.  I know it really sucks when there are no reviews on the ads.

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On 7/27/2021 at 10:17 AM, Zella said:

I disagreed with a lot of Roger Ebert's takes on movies, but oh my God, I love his negative reviews. When I am feeling down, I revisit them because they are so withering. 

North springs to mind. 

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1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

North springs to mind. 

And I didn't even mind it as much as he did (granted, I last watched it as a kid so who knows how I feel about it now), but I started giggling uncontrollably just thinking about how much that movie pissed him off! LOL 

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48 minutes ago, Zella said:

And I didn't even mind it as much as he did

It would be hard to! 

I hated this movie. Hated hated hated hated hated this movie. Hated it. Hated every simpering stupid vacant audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it.

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I love reading book, movie and TV reviews. I used to read them every week in the paper. Now its more online and I have favorite reviewers on Youtube especially Cinema Snob who is hilarious. I like when they go into why they liked or disliked a movie, book or TV show. Its fun and I like information about the movie. It can sometimes help me decide whether to watch a movie or read a book that I'm on the fence about. Other times their just fun to read. I'm always impressed in negative reviews that find some positives. Like even if they hated the movie but think the acting was well done or the actors and actresses did the best they could with the script they had.  

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On 7/26/2021 at 8:43 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Now when an author uses his/her social media to blast critical reviews because the reviewer dared to leave him/her less than 5 stars, or catfishing and stalking a reviewer over a less than positive review, or having your husband comment on all the less than positive reviews; then you deserve to get review bombed.  

I still don't like the idea of giving a bad review for something you haven't seen/read, no matter what is the reason behind it. It's supposed to be a review of that specific work, not of the author.

Anyway, I find review bombing to be disgusting, especially if it is done by people who are clearly not the target audience for the thing they are hating and can't stomach that other groups of people might want something for themselves (and would appreciate being able to see honest reviews of it).

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31 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I still don't like the idea of giving a bad review for something you haven't seen/read, no matter what is the reason behind it. It's supposed to be a review of that specific work, not of the author.

Seriously. If you haven't read the book/watched the movie/show, then you can't actually review it. If someone feels they just have to say something, just say "I refuse to read this book because I have read that the author is a misogynist and I don't trust how he would write the female lead". That is at least somewhat constructive, since someone might not know that about the author and it might inform their decision to give that author their money. But to lie by making it sound like you read the book and "it sucked" is fraudulent. 

Unfortunately, there seem to be a subset of "fans" who feel it is their job to destroy anyone who dares speak out against their beloved and will flame anything that "destroyer" does. It is rampant in young adult fiction circles and it is just such a terrible waste of time and effort. 

I can't say I see it as much in television or movies, though I might just not be in the "right" fandoms to see it. None of the fandoms I tend towards for TV and movies do that. The closest I see to that is the comic/scifi fanboys who can't handle seeing kick ass women characters. (and that's not ALL of that fandom, but that "toxic fanboy" subset who can't seem to need women to "stay in their place"), who will flame movies like Wonder Woman or Black Widow simply because the lead is female without having seen the movie. Or those who hated Black Panther (without seeing it) because it's not about white guys. Ok, maybe I do see it a lot in tele and film. Ugh. Why do some fans get so freaking rabid about fictional characters? 

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I feel like The Simpsons fandom are mostly stans now, given how outraged some of them got over The Problem With Apu and the fallout that came from that. Not to mention their inability to admit that its long past its prime.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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On 8/1/2021 at 7:22 PM, Mabinogia said:

Unfortunately, there seem to be a subset of "fans" who feel it is their job to destroy anyone who dares speak out against their beloved and will flame anything that "destroyer" does. It is rampant in young adult fiction circles and it is just such a terrible waste of time and effort. 

I can't say I see it as much in television or movies, though I might just not be in the "right" fandoms to see it. None of the fandoms I tend towards for TV and movies do that. The closest I see to that is the comic/scifi fanboys who can't handle seeing kick ass women characters. (and that's not ALL of that fandom, but that "toxic fanboy" subset who can't seem to need women to "stay in their place"), who will flame movies like Wonder Woman or Black Widow simply because the lead is female without having seen the movie. Or those who hated Black Panther (without seeing it) because it's not about white guys. Ok, maybe I do see it a lot in tele and film. Ugh. Why do some fans get so freaking rabid about fictional characters? 

I’m in a different fandom and can relate to these paragraphs. I just made a post on my Tumblr about a particular ship that I don’t like and think is too romanticized and a fan of that ship wrote a post on her own Tumblr in response complaining about my post and saying “don’t tell me what not to romanticize.” First of all, I didn’t even mention this other user in my post. It wasn’t a post about why I don’t like HER; it was about a totally fictional TV relationship. She gets extremely defensive at people who break up the pairing in fanfic or say on forums that they don’t like the ship. It’s so hard for me to believe that someone in their 30s (maybe 40s?) can get this defensive about someone not liking a fictional couple. Like if the post bothers you, why can’t you just shrug and move on? Why are you ranting and screaming like you’re 13? The characters do not care because they literally don’t exist and can’t be offended by it. (And the actors would probably not care either.) 

Honestly, I wonder about people who are that rabid about a ship. Like is your life really that much of a mess that a TV couple means that much to you? And if you’re happy otherwise, then why are you so invested in the fandom? It’s fiction. People are allowed to interpret things differently than you. Why can’t people just be more respectful or keep scrolling? I already said in my fandom’s Discord that I don’t ship a particular non-canon pairing some of the other members do. No one got angry or raged against me and everyone lived. 

The fandom as a whole does seem relaxed overall so I consider this an anomaly in a way. But I worry about adults who fly off the handle because someone doesn’t like their favorite ship. Get a grip, Karen. 

Edited by Cloud9Shopper
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It bugs me when fans find excuses to hate an actor because they can't admit they aren't able to separate them from the character they play that they hate. I think it's because they know deep down devoting so much energy hating a fictional character is irrational. Also when they rant how if the character were played by a "better" actor they'd like them even though everything they hate about said character is due to the writing. On the flip side fans of a characters ignore anything problematic of whoever plays them.

Also when favorite characters do or say anything cool fans act like the characters or actors did it on their own.  However when their favorite characters do or say anything fans don't like it's  "because of bad writing".

Edited by Fool to cry
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7 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

Also when fans' favorite characters do or say anything they like the characters and actors get the credit. However when their favorite characters do or say anything fans don't like it's "because of bad writers and showrunners".

YES. Seriously, there's characters I love, sure, but I'm also able to acknowledge the moments when they act like idiots/assholes, and if they get called out by another character for doing or saying something stupid, I'm like, "Nope, yeah, they deserve that." Hell, I've probably already mentally called them out myself :p. 

I mean, yeah, sometimes some writers and showrunners can have an odd handle on characters, but much of the time, they do seem to get the blame for stuff that isn't within their control. 

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5 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

However when their favorite characters do or say anything fans don't like it's  "because of bad writing".

In fairness, there have been plenty of examples of characters being ruined because of actual bad writing, but I concede this isn’t always the case.

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9 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Honestly, I wonder about people who are that rabid about a ship. Like is your life really that much of a mess that a TV couple means that much to you?

There have been plenty of instances of actors being hated because their character caused the beloved couple to split up.  I watched soaps for years and the outright venom directed towards some actors was scary.  On the flip side the devotion shown to characters who were rapists was scary too.

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3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

In fairness, there have been plenty of examples of characters being ruined because of actual bad writing, but I concede this isn’t always the case.

My beef is the only time fans acknowledge writers exist is when characters do something they don't like. Writers get little credit when characters do or say something fans they do because fans want to believe characters have a life of their own.

Re: Fans and authors regarding anything new: Fans want the same thing but done differently while authors want to do different things the same way. Fans get tired of an author's style while an author gets tired of writing the same characters.

Edited by Fool to cry
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I value the writing over the acting.  I can watch something that is badly acted but I have a hard time watching something that is badly written.  Case in point I watched Roseanne from the very first episode through the very last episode. But on subsequent re watches I skip the final season because it was so badly written.  

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I may be an outlier, but I spend a lot of time thinking about the writing in shows I watch. (I have a master's in literature, though, so I do this when I read for fun too.) I know nothing about acting, so I can respond to what I see as good or bad acting on a purely subjective level, but I know nothing about it from a technical standpoint. But writing? I can talk about good and bad writing all day. I already do. It annoys the hell out of my family and friends, so I come to online places like here and talk about it. 

I've long been fascinated by narrative structure in general, so I can be pretty geeky about shows that seem to know how to structure episodes, seasons, and series competently. (I always thought Breaking Bad was basically a masterclass in how to do that.)

I've actually been rewatching The Fall, and though it has some plotholes that drive me crazy, the other night, my inner English major was admiring how well the show uses foils and thinking about what a great paper I would have gotten out of that if I ever wrote about it for a class. 😂

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56 minutes ago, Zella said:

I can talk about good and bad writing all day.

Me too.  I like trying to figure out if the entire season of a show that has a continuing storyline was written from start to finish or did they write it as they went along.  

59 minutes ago, Zella said:

I've long been fascinated by narrative structure in general, so I can be pretty geeky about shows that seem to know how to structure episodes, seasons, and series competently.

I thought the first season of Damages was perfect.  It was like watching a well written novel.

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Just now, ifionlyknew said:

Me too.  I like trying to figure out if the entire season of a show that has a continuing storyline was written from start to finish or did they write it as they went along.  

I thought the first season of Damages was perfect.  It was like watching a well written novel.

I've gotten the impression that they often start with an ending point in mind and then make stuff up along the way. Apparently the writer of The Fall always knew how it was going to end but then found himself taking alternate routes to get there. I was astonished how much stuff the writers for Justified just threw in at the last minute! It worked way better than it had any right to. But I loved how open the writers were about discussing their process and how episodes took shape. 

I've never watched Damages--I should check it out! I like shows that seem like novels. I also like ones that seem more like a short story collection, if that makes sense. I always got that vibe from Mad Men and Deadwood. 

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4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I've never watched Damages--I should check it out!

I highly recommend it. The subsequent seasons were good but the first season was excellent. Glen Close won two well deserved Emmys for her portrayal of lawyer Patty Hewes.

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

. I also like ones that seem more like a short story collection, if that makes sense. I always got that vibe from Mad Men and Deadwood. 

For me Mad Men was like reading a book and each season was a new chapter.

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It's funny that you hear complaints how men should show more affection towards each other and hugging doesn't mean your gay but if two male characters have a close bond fangirls especially will immediately be "Oh my god they're really in love!" I think because straight men are always trying to get in their pants that women can't imagine men could have an intimate connection that isn't romantic.

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