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S02.E11: Zoey’s Extraordinary Double Date

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Zoey attempts to throw all her energy into her relationship, but things get complicated when a double date doesn't go as planned.

Airing Sunday, May 2, 2021.

 

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Longer promo:

 

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Oh, thank god there is a rational reason for Simon wearing the puffy/lacey shirt that we saw in the promo from last week!

 

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I liked the song in the waiting room. Or maybe I just relate to it a little too much...

 

 

"Fruit salad, I love it. Not you, Honeydew." 😂 (Hey, I like honeydew...)

Leif and Tobin grabbing arms and jumping up and down and then remembering that the walls are see-through cracked me up.

Zoey really needs to learn about appropriate time and place to talk about these things...

lol... "what are you growing in here?" Mary Steenburgen didn't sound half bad on that song.

Guess Max is going to NY? But will he come back...?

 

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Enjoyable episode overall

The singing in the race number seemed off, like it was heavily processed. The rest of the numbers were pretty enjoyable. Mary Steenburgen somehow miraculously sounded good

Good that Mo dumped Perry as Perry clearly still had too much self hatred given his backstory

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Color me surprised that the show acknowledged the powers being the reason for Zoey and Simon's grief bonding and that she's his boss. 

If Maggie doesn't want that money, I'll happily take it off her hands. Her and Deb singing "Rich Girls" was a highlight for me.

And Mo, always Mo. 

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I hate love triangles and it's a shame that every show feels the need to do them. I foolishly thought that maybe just maybe they would let Simon and Zoey evolve as a couple but nope. It makes me not like Zoey and feel like Simon deserves better.

Edited by mommalib
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1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I liked the song in the waiting room. Or maybe I just relate to it a little too much...

 

You are not alone in totally relating to the therapists' waiting room song. I was so into it that it didn't even occur to me that there were way too many people there for one therapist, but now I'm making it plural. 

However, most of the rest of the episode was too heavy on the negative emotions for me -- as was every show I've seen in the last week. I'm chalking it up to the writers having Pandemia -- or whatever it's being called when we move from fear of dying to fear of living like this forever -- which was how it seemed when these episodes were written.

I did enjoy the New York Feeling song -- it made me believe in feeling hopeful again --even if I found its choreography a little silly in parts. 
And I actually liked the bit where Zoey and Max were acknowledging in not so many words that she could read his mind. 
But both of those things were happening within the restaurant failing to deliver while Simon and Rose were ill-used.

Mo's break up was another bummer -- especially since it seemed to me that hot fireman guy was going off into the sunset with suicidal ideations. 

And Leif and Tobin's make up scene was too cringey for me to enjoy.

 

Was that a Chekhovian hint Leif dropped WRT taking over as boss? --presumably so Zoey and Simon can live happily ever after, since Zoey's shrink has seemingly banished Max into the friend zone?

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I just wish it didn’t feel like the show was spinning it’s wheels. It many ways Zoey’s relationships with Max and Simon are in the same place they were last season. Simon is still confused, Max is still resentful and Zoey is still overcompensating and avoiding anything real. I found myself hoping that Max would accidentally spell the beans about Zoey’s power just so the plot would actually move. Without the clear plot line of Mitch’s illness the show is going nowhere. 

Also, what was the point of putting Mo in another relationship just to have it fall apart very quickly. Such unnecessary angst. 

For the most part I can handwave the logistical issues with the restaurant but not when they simultaneously spotlight the biggest issue and talk about expansion. 

On the bright side, I really liked the songs and the therapist. The moment with Leif and Tobin jumping up and down was adorable. 

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There was just so much going on in this one.

That guy that was sitting next to Zoey in the therapist's waiting room is on The Good Doctor (also filming in Vancouver), right?

The Drone phone - LOL. I guess it's better than Sprq Pants. (Still waiting for an update on those.) Was happy to see stuff going on at SprqPoint again, but still too little of Leif and Tobin.

Well, I figured they would circle back to Zoey/Max, but didn't think they'd go so hard on imploding Zoey/Simon and making Zoey acting a mess to do it. I thought therapy was supposed to be helping? But I'm also not so sure they are going to go back to Zoey/Max, at least in a romantic sense. We'll see, I guess; but they are making things way more complicated than i needs to be.

Really liked that cover of "Unwell".

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Also, what was the point of putting Mo in another relationship just to have it fall apart very quickly. Such unnecessary angst. 

I don't get it. It was going so well.

Wasn't sure where they were going with Maggie/Deb/gambling, but I liked "Rich Girl".

More thoughts later...

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What does the drone phone DO? Does it fly around over your head and drop the phone into your hand when you get a call? I don't get it at all.

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I'm with Zoey when it comes to that race. The only thing worse than running on purpose is running on purpose in a costume. Nope, no thank you.

While I agree with Zoey's therapist about her seeing Max moving to New York as another loss, I think she also still has feelings for him despite her denial, and clearly Simon thinks so, too. I'm kinda surprised at how quickly Max decided he wants to move, even though he almost certainly won't leave in the end. 

It's a shame about Mo and Perry since things were going pretty well, but Perry obviously has his own issues to work out.

Happy for Maggie and her piles of cash. She's had a rough time of things and she deserves a nice vacation.

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8 hours ago, Trini said:

Wasn't sure where they were going with Maggie/Deb/gambling

Well, clearly defying all odds. Literally.

 

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

What does the drone phone DO? Does it fly around over your head and drop the phone into your hand when you get a call? I don't get it at all.

Hah! That's better than what I concluded: You could call it when you didn't know where it was.

 

About the race: Seven miles? Did I hear that right? Max should've suggested Zoey drop out at mile 2 and then meet up with him at mile 6 or something.

Edited by shapeshifter
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8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But both of those things were happening within the restaurant failing to deliver while Simon and Rose were ill-used.

I found it interesting (not in a good way) that they're talking about a NYC popup restaurant while they're seeing one of the inherent problems with their whole concept in action - what happens when another restaurant, which you have no control over, doesn't deliver on time?

5 hours ago, phalange said:

I'm with Zoey when it comes to that race. The only thing worse than running on purpose is running on purpose in a costume. Nope, no thank you.

Had to roll my eyes at the "it's only 7 miles" line. You don't start running with a 7 mile race. You don't even start with running one whole mile, especially when you are not someone who even really works out at all (from what we've seen, anyway).

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

What does the drone phone DO?

I read this in the voice of the "what does the dishwasher do" girl from that detergent commercial.

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Aww, Kitty from Glee! And was that Mandy Moore dancing in the first number? I wonder if one of the dancers had to drop out at the last minute and they needed a replacement.

Minor nitpick: I've never heard anyone refer to it as "the Bay to Breakers." It's called [no article] Bay to Breakers, as in "What are you wearing to Bay to Breakers?" I guess I can give Rose a pass since she doesn't live in San Francisco.

I liked that Zoey's therapist immediately picked up on her overachieving need to BE THE BEST rather than just trying to be a little better and make some improvements with incremental steps.

In theory, I was fine with Max doing a pop up in New York but I don't know why he needs to move there for a month or longer. There are plenty of pop ups that are for a weekend, especially when they're out of towners.

I had a really hard time believing that this was the first time since the restaurant opened that food was arriving late. Traffic from Bay to Breakers? The race starts at 8am and finishes at 1pm. There are some street closures but it's not worse than, say, driving downtown on a Friday night (which is when the restaurant should have the most business), when traffic can be absolutely atrocious. This is coming from someone who sat in traffic for over 30 minutes to drive about six blocks on a Friday night because there was a concert at Bill Graham, SF Ballet had a show at the War Memorial, and Hamilton was playing at the Orpheum (and having shows at three large venues on the same night within two blocks is not unusual). Good times. If Maximo's can get food delivered under those kind of Friday night conditions, a few street closures from Bay to Breakers is nothing. Maybe they need to hire bike messengers to deliver food so they don't have to worry about traffic as much.

Liam and Tobin jumping up and down together was the cutest. Not cute: Tobin being mad that Leif ignored the ridiculously stupid microphone/megaphone war and created something else. Don't get me wrong - the drone phone is just as stupid as the other two ideas, but Leif was smart to exclude himself from the West Side Story turf war battle and just come up with something else on his own.

I actually thought that Perry's issue was going to be that because Mo and Brad were so similar, he was afraid that he was essentially replacing Brad with Brad 2.0 and assuming that his relationship with Mo would fail the same way that his relationship with Brad did. I'm disappointed in the turn that this story took not only because Mo seemed happy with him (which I want, of course) but also because Perry is a great singer and he's barely had an opportunity to sing!

Zoey's obvious feelings about Max leaving were giving me secondhand embarrassment. The look that Simon and Rose exchanged said that Zoey was not being subtle AT ALL. And that was before Zoey and Max started actually fighting. I wish Zoey had told Simon exactly what her therapist said about how many people she's lost in the last few months because I think he would understand that.

Yay, I'm glad Maggie is going to go on a cruise with Deb. That sounds like a fun girl trip. Hopefully she will relax and have a good time. I was relieved that's where the Rich Girl song ended up going because when Deb initially began singing it, I was worried that it was going to turn out that Deb was broke and wanted to take all the money that Maggie had just won.

Mary Steenburgen is now the weakest singer in the cast, but she sounded pretty good with Bernadette Peters so let's have them keep doing duets. Their cute choreography with the little Fosse-esque moves at the end was really fun to watch.

5 hours ago, phalange said:

I'm with Zoey when it comes to that race. The only thing worse than running on purpose is running on purpose in a costume. Nope, no thank you.

It's not really about running a race (there is also a recreational division at the race for people who don't really want to run). It's about day drinking and wearing costumes (or running the race completely naked - technically nudity got banned from the race a few years ago but there are people who still do it). Keep in mind this is San Francisco which is a ghost town during Burning Man. People love any excuse to wear costumes around here. Like to the point where I know people who have converted a second bedroom into a giant closet for all their costume and wig storage (unlike people like me who have no spare bedrooms and keep their costumes in storage bins under the bed). During non-pandemic times, it feels like there's some sort of festival, street fair, block party, or other reason to wear a costume just about every weekend from spring through October. At the last Bay to Breakers in 2019, a group of 45 women all dressed as RBG (complete with bejeweled gavels) and ran the race together!

320148883_baytobreakers.thumb.jpg.0cc655b1b26955fbb52f74592a8fd043.jpg

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I'm glad that they acknowledged the fact that Zoey is Simon's boss and and their whole relationship started off with them bonding over their mutual grief, which might not be the healthiest way to start a relationship. I hope that Max isn't gone for long, but I cant blame him for wanting to get some space from Zoey. She seriously just needs to pick her lane, does she want Simon? Max? She broke up with Max because it was too soon after her dad died and because of her powers, but then it wasn't too soon for her to get with Simon and he doesn't know about her powers so that should be good right except now she's seemingly having feeling for Max again, its exhausting. I think her therapist had a point about how she is upset that Max is leaving because its yet another loss for her, but I wouldn't be surprised if Zoey is also being wishy washy again. Max is leaving more possibly months for a pop up bar? But its a pop up bar, its only supposed to pop up, it wont be open for long right? Do they plan on already opening up a second location later on after only a few weeks? 

Who knew Asher from The Good Doctor could sing? Really good songs this week, the waiting room and race songs were probably my favorites, although Rich Girl was one of Maggie's best songs, she sounded like she was having so much fun. Good for her, I hope she enjoys her cruise, she really needs the vacation. 

Seven miles is a pretty long run for a novice, but maybe its the kind of race where people end up walking for most of it, like all of the fun runs I've been to? Zoey has made a lot of strides in understanding other people, but the girl still needs a whole ass song to confirm that people like stuff that Zoey herself doesn't like. 

It sucks that Perry and Mo are already done, I really liked Perry and we only got to hear him sing a few times! I thought that Perry's issue would be that he realized that Mo and his ex are too much alike and that they would end up having the same problems that led to his divorce later on. 

Leif and Tobin jumping around was cute, Tobin finally found a girl who likes him back! And all it took was a stupid looking flying phone. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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12 hours ago, DanaK said:

Mary Steenburgen somehow miraculously sounded good

How did that happen? Maybe she's finally getting a song suitable for her range?

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I actually thought that Perry's issue was going to be that because Mo and Brad were so similar, he was afraid that he was essentially replacing Brad with Brad 2.0

Same here. Which makes me wonder if Mo will get together with Brad. Those two really hit it off.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I wish Zoey had told Simon exactly what her therapist said about how many people she's lost in the last few months because I think he would understand that.

Again, same here. If the writers are going to the trouble of having Zoey say she talked about it in therapy, have her tell Simon what she talked about. I hate it when stuff can't be cleared up by a line or two of dialogue. It's such an annoying way to manufacture drama and is one of the things I dislike most about the show.. I don't think Zoey is completely over Max, FWIW, but there is definitely loss tied up in her feelings for him as well.

I don't get the point of the Drone Phone at all. The Maxi and Mini Phones were equally stupid.

 

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't get the point of the Drone Phone at all. 

I'm just picturing someone losing an eye to those little blades.

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2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Aww, Kitty from Glee! And was that Mandy Moore dancing in the first number? I wonder if one of the dancers had to drop out at the last minute and they needed a replacement.

...

I had a really hard time believing that this was the first time since the restaurant opened that food was arriving late. Traffic from Bay to Breakers? The race starts at 8am and finishes at 1pm. There are some street closures but it's not worse than, say, driving downtown on a Friday night (which is when the restaurant should have the most business), when traffic can be absolutely atrocious. This is coming from someone who sat in traffic for over 30 minutes to drive about six blocks on a Friday night because there was a concert at Bill Graham, SF Ballet had a show at the War Memorial, and Hamilton was playing at the Orpheum (and having shows at three large venues on the same night within two blocks is not unusual). Good times. If Maximo's can get food delivered under those kind of Friday night conditions, a few street closures from Bay to Breakers is nothing. Maybe they need to hire bike messengers to deliver food so they don't have to worry about traffic as much.

Mandy Moore directed the episode, I think I read?  Maybe she was always planning to be be in it. 😉

The double date was a lunch date.  So if they finished the race before 1pm, which presumably they did because Zoey didn't even finish it with her ankle, then it makes sense that road closures were still affecting lunch deliveries.   (In my city, I once went less than 2 blocks in over 45 minutes, for reasons I couldn't figure out!  I had no idea what made the traffic so awful that evening, but buses were blocking intersections and no one could go anywhere... it was awful.)  

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Which makes me wonder if Mo will get together with Brad. Those two really hit it off.

How did I miss this?? I guess because I was still assuming Mo and Perry were going to work things out. 
I'm still hung up on Perry's sad song that seemed like he was suicidal. Now I'm wondering if he does commit suicide and then Mo and Brad have a sort of bonding over that where they both feel guilty. Definitely not a show I want to watch. This show is supposed to be singing and dancing, not weeping and moaning. Right?

 

 

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52 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

 

The double date was a lunch date.  So if they finished the race before 1pm, which presumably they did because Zoey didn't even finish it with her ankle, then it makes sense that road closures were still affecting lunch deliveries

Maybe they need drones to do the deliveries. Talk to Leif.

I thought that Simon and Rose got along as well as Mo and Brad. Maybe everyone needs to just shuffle their partners. 

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Electric Boogaloo: Aww, Kitty from Glee! And was that Mandy Moore dancing in the first number? I wonder if one of the dancers had to drop out at the last minute and they needed a replacement.

And Kenny from The Real O’Neals! (aka the guy from The Good Doctor) 

 

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Random thoughts on S2 E11, many of which were already mentioned above:

1) At least Zoey has enough self-awareness to know that she's been lying to Simon this whole time and continues to do so for selfish reasons. And at least the writers have enough self-awareness to finally make that explicit, or at least they read these boards.

2) Zoey treats therapy a lot like her job, which is not a good sign. Not sure I agree with her doctor that he reaction to Max potentially moving to NYC is about loss. Still seems more like Zoey's selfishness. But I still like her.

3) Her therapist should probably be more concerned when a patient describes having whaty professionals would recognize as visual and auditory hallucinations. Sure, the subconscience can be very powerful and Zoey is a high-functioning schizophrenic, but I'm not sure a professional would think that talkt therapy is enough.

4) Mo & Perry relationship issues were the most real part of this episode. Nuanced and touching, with both of them speaking honestly and without blame. But I'm with others here who wonder why they had the Perry character in the first place if this is the end. Was it just for his Lou Rawls-type singing voice?

5) Max should go to NYC and just marry Rose already. They are a great pairing and genuinely seem to care about each other. The writers gave Max what he deserved with her, when Zoey proved unreliable.

6) Good call (if totally ridiculous) for Maggie to simply go on a heater rather than devolve into a gamblign addiction. Seems also to have made her friendship with Deb closer than ever. Good for her!

7) All the SPRQPoint phone ideas are stupid. DronePhone least so, although a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not sure if it was a visual effect or they actually built a flying phone. Cool either way. Would never buy one.

8) Is ZEP still spinning its wheels? Less so than earlier in the season but still more than S1. I'm beginning to think the heart songs are getting the in way of good story telling.

9) BTW -- Maximo customers would know their food delivery is delayed. I doubt they would blame Maximo since they know what it's about.

10) No way Zoey is Simon's boss. DMD should just get off the elevator on the 4th floor, walk up to Zoey, and tell her that in case she didn't know Simon reports to corporate and just happens to have his office on her floor. Then he gets back on the elevator and we can all save the keystrokes.

11) ZEP now has too many characters to follow. In S3, they need to refocus with Zoey on a leave of absense from SP, Simon on a 4 month world tour of SP offices, max in NYC, and Mo taking a hiatus from romantic entanglements to focus on Maximo. David's back as a lawyer, Zoey has aunt time with Miles and tells him everything (even more than she tells her therapist), and she gets away from most of the heart songs.

12) Are we any closer to knowing a) where Zoey's power comes from, b) how it works, and c) what's the purpose behind it for Zoey? No, we are not. A whole season wasted as far as I'm concerned. 

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Pop ups - yep, I agree with others here... this makes no sense as the whole point of pop ups is that they are temporary.  A weekend, maybe a week, mayyybeee a month.  But certainly not long enough to fully move, sublet an apartment, etc.  This is just bad writing - they could have just tweaked this a little to make it something more than a pop up.  It could have been a new restaurant incubator, where new places set up for 3-6 months to see if the concept would fly in a "real" restaurant space.  Would that really have been that hard to write instead of pop up???

Maggie & Deb duet - I don't know what it is, but I'm not enjoying Bernadette Peters this season.  Something about her voice seems off and I'm not liking the song choices for her.  Also, would a casino really send you out with enough cash to fill a suitcase?  No.  Just no.  I mean, it was funny with Maggie pulling cash out of every nook and cranny of the greenhouse, but that was just so unrealistic. 

I'm liking the therapist plot line, but the rest of this episode just didn't do it for me. 

Oh, wait.  I did like that Mo clarified his pronoun preferences.  I know there's been talk in earlier discussions, and some people got "corrected".  But now it seems that there really isn't an incorrect answer, at least from the character's standpoint. 

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3 hours ago, D Angel said:

Zoey treats therapy a lot like her job, which is not a good sign. 

I think that's larger issue the therapist should be working on with her. Zoey is treating many aspect of her life like she's still a student trying to get straight As. 

3 hours ago, D Angel said:

Her therapist should probably be more concerned when a patient describes having whaty professionals would recognize as visual and auditory hallucinations. Sure, the subconscience can be very powerful and Zoey is a high-functioning schizophrenic, but I'm not sure a professional would think that talkt therapy is enough.

My guess is that the therapist wants a bit more information before taking more agressive measures. Right now, she isn't harming herself or others, and she doesn't seem to be a danger to herself or to others.  

3 hours ago, D Angel said:

All the SPRQPoint phone ideas are stupid. DronePhone least so, although a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not sure if it was a visual effect or they actually built a flying phone. Cool either way. Would never buy one.

That kind of seems to be the point. SPRQPoint is a mix of things that sound cool and helpful, like the Chirp, and the totally silly, like the mysterious SmartPants.  

3 hours ago, D Angel said:

No way Zoey is Simon's boss. DMD should just get off the elevator on the 4th floor, walk up to Zoey, and tell her that in case she didn't know Simon reports to corporate and just happens to have his office on her floor. Then he gets back on the elevator and we can all save the keystrokes.

I have no problem with co-workers dating, but I am not okay with a boss dating someone who reports to them. Zoey being Simon's boss makes no sense. I like your idea. An even easier way to handwave it is have DMD announce a "restructuring," which makes it clear that Simon reports to corporate, but keeps his his office on the 4th floor, because they do not want all of the executives (if that's the right word) on the same floor and want them to see how the other departments actually work and what they do on a day-to-day basis.

39 minutes ago, chaifan said:

 I did like that Mo clarified his pronoun preferences.  I know there's been talk in earlier discussions, and some people got "corrected".  But now it seems that there really isn't an incorrect answer, at least from the character's standpoint. 

This made me feel better. I was clearly not the only one who was confused. 

Edited by Sarah 103
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19 hours ago, Trini said:

There was just so much going on in this one.

That guy that was sitting next to Zoey in the therapist's waiting room is on The Good Doctor (also filming in Vancouver), right?

Yes, that was Asher from the Good Doctor. He is a good singer.

10 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

How did that happen? Maybe she's finally getting a song suitable for her range?

Same here. Which makes me wonder if Mo will get together with Brad. Those two really hit it off.

Again, same here. If the writers are going to the trouble of having Zoey say she talked about it in therapy, have her tell Simon what she talked about. I hate it when stuff can't be cleared up by a line or two of dialogue. It's such an annoying way to manufacture drama and is one of the things I dislike most about the show.. I don't think Zoey is completely over Max, FWIW, but there is definitely loss tied up in her feelings for him as well.

I don't get the point of the Drone Phone at all. The Maxi and Mini Phones were equally stupid.

 

The Mega and Micro phone where just different size phones, but I kind of get the appeal behind the drone phone. You can turn a phone into a drone and use it to do whatever people do with drones. Spy on the neighbors, I guess? I would not want one, but people are into drones, so I am sure some people would want a phone/drone combo.

It was kind of shady for Leif to secretly submit his own pitch though. He's a manager of those people, isn't he?

Man it sure would be nice to go to a casino and just keep winning money.

Edited by KaveDweller
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2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

You can turn a phone into a drone and use it to do whatever people do with drones. Spy on the neighbors, I guess? I would not want one, but people are into drones, so I am sure some people would want a phone/drone combo.

The thing that makes no sense to me is that you would need a second device to control your phone drone. Now a phone with a detachable micro drone would be a very clever invention. What we saw would be really impractical. 

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I wonder if there's a competition in the writer's room to come up with the most ridiculous product for the show to take completely seriously.

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3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

and the totally silly, like the mysterious SmartPants. 

If there's a third season, I'm gonna need payoff on this!

Edited by Trini · Reason: what is with my typing today....
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6 minutes ago, Dani said:

The thing that makes no sense to me is that you would need a second device to control your phone drone. Now a phone with a detachable micro drone would be a very clever invention. What we saw would be really impractical. 

I didn't think of that. But doesn't Zoey's company have smart watches. You could control the phone drone with the watch? And then it is more things to sell to people.

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Just watched this episode and have to say I LOL twice (very loudly) at:

1) Mo saying he thought Simon in the purple jacket was supposed to be dressed as Grimace, 😂 and

2)Leif and Tobin jumping up and down in the office before remembering that the “walls are see-thru” and abruptly stopping. 😂😂

Also I could listen to Skylar Astin sing “New York State of Mind” all day long. That is all. 

Edited by srpturtle80
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14 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

Also I could listen to Skyler Astin sing “New York State of Mind” all day long. That is all. 

 

Ooh, I found it. Yay!

 

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33 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

I could listen to Skylar Astin sing “New York State of Mind” all day long. That is all. 

Yeah. I may have to figure out how to do that. 

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8 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah. I may have to figure out how to do that. 

It's also available on iTunes.

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Is it bad that I watched the Overwhelmed scene again and almost started to cry...

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22 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Color me surprised that the show acknowledged the powers being the reason for Zoey and Simon's grief bonding and that she's his boss. 

I can understand why Zoey might think her powers giving her an "edge" may be kind of cheating and make her fear Simon would see their bonding seem like a disingenuous manipulation, but logically- to me- wouldn't just having a high degree of empathy and observational skill be the same thing? So the MRI gave her a jumpstart on what takes many people years to develop; fundamentally, her hearing "heart songs" is really just empathy, and that's the sort of thing that can create lasting, meaningful bonds between people.

On another note, I agree with one of the other posters that Zoey was too quick to discount her feelings for Max and jump on the therapist's "loss and grieving" theory. I suspect that both are almost certainly involved, and Zoey is just doing her typical avoidance and denial.

This was my favorite episode in a while. I thought almost all the music choices were good, and very well performed (the arrangement for Perry's Matchbox 20 number was particularly well-suited to his voice and performance style, and Max's New York State of Mind was amazing). The choreography was also great this week, especially for the race scene.

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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10 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Same here. Which makes me wonder if Mo will get together with Brad. Those two really hit it off.

I actually thought- rather than it being Mo's genderfluid identity- Perry's problem was going to be that he ended up with someone just like his Ex-husband,

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4 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I can understand why Zoey might think her powers giving her an "edge" may be kind of cheating and make her fear Simon would see their bonding seem like a disingenuous manipulation, but logically- to me- wouldn't just having a high degree of empathy and observational skill be the same thing?

Not in my opinion. What Zoey can do is more in line reading thoughts than empathy or observing moods. 

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19 hours ago, possibilities said:

What does the drone phone DO? Does it fly around over your head and drop the phone into your hand when you get a call? I don't get it at all.

I assume the point of the Drone Phone is to take aerial pictures?  Because I originally was wondering why you would need your phone to fly to you instead of just keeping it in your pocket/purse/hand.  I do feel like you would be taking a risk on losing your phone, though perhaps it can't go too far or too high in relation to the owner, who must have a remote control on them.

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I actually thought that Perry's issue was going to be that because Mo and Brad were so similar, he was afraid that he was essentially replacing Brad with Brad 2.0 and assuming that his relationship with Mo would fail the same way that his relationship with Brad did.

That's what I thought!

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was relieved that's where the Rich Girl song ended up going because when Deb initially began singing it, I was worried that it was going to turn out that Deb was broke and wanted to take all the money that Maggie had just won.

It certainly seemed that way for awhile.

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2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

But doesn't Zoey's company have smart watches. You could control the phone drone with the watch?

That makes sense.

 

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That was a pretty good episode. I was shocked at how good Mary Steenburgen sounded during her number.

Also, that guy from The Good Doctor! I did not know he could sing. Can the shows take place in the same universe?

I'm wondering how much Don't Stop Me Now and New York State Of Mind cost them? They seem like they could be pricey songs.
 

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I wonder if there's a competition in the writer's room to come up with the most ridiculous product for the show to take completely seriously.

I hope so. Maybe something like The Good Place's writers room where they came up with fake restaurant/location names and kept a list on the wall for use when they needed it?

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11 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I can understand why Zoey might think her powers giving her an "edge" may be kind of cheating and make her fear Simon would see their bonding seem like a disingenuous manipulation, but logically- to me- wouldn't just having a high degree of empathy and observational skill be the same thing?

When it comes to Zoey's original bond with Simon, I totally agree.  Everyone knew his dad died, right?  That wasn't a big secret he was keeping.  So anyone with an ounce of empathy could figure out he was sad about his dad.  I don't think Zoey's powers gave her a real leg up with that, it just gave her the push to talk to him about it, since at that time she thought that's what the power was all about - she was supposed to help people when she heard their heart songs.

Most other times the heart songs reveal hidden emotions, or the not-so-obvious reasons behind a visible emotional reaction.  That's where Zoey has an advantage over others.  Has that happened with Simon since they bonded over their dads?  Pretty sure it has.  But it's not what got the ball rolling with the two of them. 

All that said, I am now officially bored with the Zoey/Simon/Max drama.  The writers either need to find a way to end that all for good, without losing any of the characters, or spice it up a little.  It's a snooze fest for me at this point.  I like Work Zoey, Friend Zoey and Family Member Zoey.  Girlfriend Zoey?  eh, not so much. 

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15 hours ago, chaifan said:

Pop ups - yep, I agree with others here... this makes no sense as the whole point of pop ups is that they are temporary.  A weekend, maybe a week, mayyybeee a month.  But certainly not long enough to fully move, sublet an apartment, etc.  This is just bad writing - they could have just tweaked this a little to make it something more than a pop up.  It could have been a new restaurant incubator, where new places set up for 3-6 months to see if the concept would fly in a "real" restaurant space.  Would that really have been that hard to write instead of pop up???

Unfortunately, one of the big weaknesses of this show is creating some kind of project that makes any sort of sense. Remember season 1's SprPoint idea with Leif/Joan that was basically invading people's personal lives, and then the weird phone ideas this season. So a pop-up that apparently needs months of planning is just another one of those ideas.

Zoey....is incredibly misguided and also incredibly selfish. She's basically on a loop, at this point. She hears a heart song, overreacts or thinks too much about how SHE has to help, gets someone pissed off, she apologies, and then it starts up all over again. She doesn't tend to take too much responsibility and she doesn't seem to get why she's in the wrong. Simon and Max both deserve better than Zoey. Like I said since the start of the season, Zoey is in NO WAY ready to be in a relationship. Eleven episodes later, and it rings even more true.

Poor Simon has to suffer through Zoey's bemoaning about Max constantly, and Max has to suffer through Zoey reading his thoughts prematurely, telling him what he feels, and then tries to pretend the problem doesn't exist between them. Max/Rose works SUPER well. I never wanted Max/Zoey to end up together, but for a while, it was on both ends (I remember Max being an insufferable Nice Guy to Zoey in season 1; he's gotten much better since then). Now, it's solely on Zoey's. 

So, Mackenzie and Tobin finally get together! We haven't had much Leif/Tobin scenes this season, so it was nice to get this moment between the two of them. 

I was surprised that Perry's reason was related to Mo's gender fluidity, but it makes sense and I'm glad they went this route. It's raw and sucks for Mo but it created such a real moment between the two of them. It didn't make Perry an intentional asshole, but it also allowed Mo to step aside and be right in doing so. Not out of jealousy or anything about Mo and Brad being too similar, but something that can't simply be fixed or moved past.

The songs were all in top form this episode, especially Max's "New York State of Mind".

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13 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I wonder if there's a competition in the writer's room to come up with the most ridiculous product for the show to take completely seriously.

Maybe some of the writers worked on the late, great Better Off Ted. That show always had crazy inventions.

8 hours ago, bros402 said:

Maybe something like The Good Place's writers room where they came up with fake restaurant/location names and kept a list on the wall for use when they needed it?

There was one GP writer who was particularly good at thinking those names up. I think originally she was doing it for her own amusement, and it snowballed from there in a hilarious way.

12 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

So the MRI gave her a jumpstart on what takes many people years to develop; fundamentally, her hearing "heart songs" is really just empathy

I don't think Zoey has much empathy, TBH. She's very self-involved. It always takes a heart song for her to engage. And it'd be nice to see her be a bit less exasperated when she hears one. 

12 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

the race scene.

Times being what they are, all I could think when I saw that scene was, "Holy cow, that's a lot of unmasked people in close proximity." It's going to take a while to get used to it being okay again.

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17 hours ago, chaifan said:

Oh, wait.  I did like that Mo clarified his pronoun preferences.  I know there's been talk in earlier discussions, and some people got "corrected".  But now it seems that there really isn't an incorrect answer, at least from the character's standpoint. 

I believe this is the actor's stance as well - he's a gender-non-conforming gay man who uses all pronouns.

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Times being what they are, all I could think when I saw that scene was, "Holy cow, that's a lot of unmasked people in close proximity." It's going to take a while to get used to it being okay again.

I was thinking that too. I'm signed up to do a rescheduled triathlon from last year, except there's no swimming portion this year (it's a run-bike-run, which ... yuck, because running is my least favorite) because you can't really do that masked and they recognized that being able to train for the swimming portion is incredibly difficult now. I'm not sure I'm going to do it but if I do, I'll be masked - we're still supposed to mask up in large groups, which this event is and that race was. I assume they're testing regularly on the show but it still made me nervous.

I hate will they/won't they/love triangle on shows, and I often wonder why people in those situations don't just say "fuck it, you're too indecisive, I'm going to date this person who actually is interested in me or take myself out of the running, because I deserve better than to sit around waiting for you to decide to like me." Like, people don't just wait around for you to get your shit together - sometimes you just miss your chance. (I don't like Simon for Zoey either.)

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This made me feel better. I was clearly not the only one who was confused.

Someone say yes or no to this, because I was confused about the breakup.   I'm not sure that the writers are particularly consistent with how they handle Mo.

Perry said - he had a real struggle coming out, and he didn't want to date Mo because Mo prefers to dress as a woman, because that would be a step back.  Even though Mo (or the actor who plays Mo, I'm not even sure) sometimes uses male pronouns.

Mo said  - that he also struggled and didn't want to be with anyone who wanted him to change.

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15 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

There was one GP writer who was particularly good at thinking those names up. I think originally she was doing it for her own amusement, and it snowballed from there in a hilarious way.

I didn't watch The Good Place but I always love a good pun. Made a note to google when I get home. 🙂

17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Times being what they are, all I could think when I saw that scene was, "Holy cow, that's a lot of unmasked people in close proximity." It's going to take a while to get used to it being okay again.

Same here. I get my second dose next week but I will not be ready to give up my mask any time soon (except maybe at my parents' house, since they got their shots in February/March). I appreciate shows that are ignoring the pandemic, just because it would get a little overwhelming if everything I watch reminds me, but at the same time it's hard to suspend disbelief in crowded scenes.

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I was surprised that Perry's reason was related to Mo's gender fluidity, but it makes sense and I'm glad they went this route. 

Totally agree. I adore Mo, and I love that people love, accept, and fall in love with him easily in the world of the show. But I’m glad they’ve addressed that there is fear and unease about gender fluidity. And especially having a likable character talk about it with great reflection, not just some random idiot being overtly phobic or hostile. 

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1 hour ago, chaifan said:

When it comes to Zoey's original bond with Simon, I totally agree.  Everyone knew his dad died, right?  That wasn't a big secret he was keeping.  So anyone with an ounce of empathy could figure out he was sad about his dad.  I don't think Zoey's powers gave her a real leg up with that, it just gave her the push to talk to him about it, since at that time she thought that's what the power was all about - she was supposed to help people when she heard their heart songs.

Based on what we saw Simon was keeping he dad’s death a secret. Zoey and Max had no clue. Simon was putting on a facade of the happy, not a care in the world guy. The dichotomy between how he appeared to the world and what Zoey heard was emphasized in the pilot. Some of their earliest scenes was him marveling at how she alone saw him clearly. 

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17 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The Mega and Micro phone where just different size phones, but I kind of get the appeal behind the drone phone. You can turn a phone into a drone and use it to do whatever people do with drones. Spy on the neighbors, I guess? I would not want one, but people are into drones, so I am sure some people would want a phone/drone combo.

Husband said it would be great for me, who constantly lose my phone if I can have it fly back to me heh. But I can see the biggest use being using it for the photo/video functions as a drone - drone selfies, drone event videos, all with your phone. This could be huge. 

 

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