S01.E06: One World, One People

[Chicago Redshirt]

45 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Welcome to comic book properties. You must be new here.

On a side note, there is nothing disappointing to me about Sharon being the powerbroker. It's only disappointing if you let yourself get all worked up about who it could be. It was logically her from the jump...so it just makes sense.

I get that others are just upset that Sharon has seemingly gone bad but the changes in the mcu world are not going to lead to positive changes for everyone. 

Help me understand the logic of why Power Broker Sharon would lead Bucky/Sam/Zemo to one of her most valuable assets in Nagel instead of just blowing them off, leading them on a wild goose chase, feeding them to the bounty hunters, etc.

Also, the implication was that the Power Broker was the one who put the bounty on Sam, Bucky and Zemo. If so, help me understand the logic behind that.

Help me understand the logic behind Power Broker Sharon not dispatching her own men to take out Karli and the supersoldiers when she had reason to suspect that they were in Latvia thanks to Sam and Bucky. 

The only logic behind her being the Power Broker is from the perspective that it would be unconventional for the mystery of who the Power Broker was to be solved with a previously unknown person, which left really two candidates if they were going to reveal PB's identity: Sharon and Senator Dickhead. 

[starri]

"It's the Black Falcon."

"No, it's Captain America."

Directly in the feels.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

To ask a man who fought the Nazis and HYDRA (pretty much the same thing), fought his way back to sanity after decades of being tortured and having his brain fried on a regular basis, taking up arms against a delusional alien with a massive army not once but twice to save the world and he's got this self-entitled child demanding to know if he's ever fought for a larger goal.

Except how was she supposed to have known that? Genuine question, because you certainly would not know by seeing Bucky on the street that he's as old as he is. In the first episode when he was on his date with Leah, she asked him how old he was, and he said, "A hundred and six." Then kind of chuckled nervously and blew it off, because they didn't really talk about it since he took off not long after that. Hell, he's just recently stopped wearing the glove that covers his metal hand, so all that history Karli was just automatically supposed to be aware of is something he's barely put behind him. He's not Steve, someone people immediately know about. He's more Isaiah, a man burdened by his past and just starting to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and this time it's not a train.

[calliope1975]

I had a lot of fun with this ep. So happy for Sam. I loved the reveal of him in full costume, even if I'm not sure if I love the color scheme. But he had so many Big Damn Hero moments. The speech went on for a bit, but everything he said was true. 

I did think Walker's turn needed a few more beats to make sense, but I'm glad WR is presumably sticking around. Walker badly needs therapy for PTSD, and for some reason, I don't think Val is going to offer it up. It'll be interesting where he pops up again. 

Oh Bucky. You got invited to the cookout! (And don't worry - you'll be invited back to Wakanda someday.) I loved those last scenes of him playing with the kids and being all charming. 

All of the Isaiah Bradley stuff was fantastic. From him watching Sam's speech and starting to understand where Sam is coming from and what he's trying to do, to that hug which made me grab a tissue. There was so much emotion and history in that simple action. And Eli - come through! I am stoked at how the MCU is building Young Avengers. 

For me, I thought Sharon's turn made perfect sense. I don't think she was snapped, and she had to do what she needed to survive. She did genuinely help Sam and Bucky - they weren't around when she was taking out an entire squadron of bad guys. She could have let them get killed or not answered her phone multiple times. But a girl's also got to look out for herself. I don't see her as evil, but more of a dark grey. And besides, if the Power Broker had been Mephisto or someone else, I would have been more disappointed because she was set up the entire way as PB.

I thought Torres might show up with the wings at the end, but we've got to have something for Season 2 - which come on, Marvel, give it to me! 

Overall, I was very pleased with this entire season. The character growth was fantastic, the action was mostly well done, the old and new characters brought something new to the table. Kudos to all!

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

8 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Except how was she supposed to have known that? Genuine question, because you certainly would not know by seeing Bucky on the street that he's as old as he is. In the first episode when he was on his date with Leah, she asked him how old he was, and he said, "A hundred and six." Then kind of chuckled nervously and blew it off, because they didn't really talk about it since he took off not long after that. Hell, he's just recently stopped wearing the glove that covers his metal hand, so all that history Karli was just automatically supposed to be aware of is something he's barely put behind him. He's not Steve, someone people immediately know about. He's more Isaiah, a man burdened by his past and just starting to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and this time it's not a train.

One presumes that the general public in the MCU knows some of Bucky's backstory, and that Karli as someone who took the super-soldier serum and someone who would do some basic research into someone who had attempted to thwart her plans would have at least the basic understanding by this episode that 1. Bucky fought Nazis in WWII and 2. Bucky fought Thanos in IW and Endgame.

[Danny Franks]

Sam's Captain America suit is pretty sweet. The added white really makes it pop. Not sure about the optics of the first fight being with a French guy, complete with a baguette joke. Is this 2004?

I do love that one of Sam's powers is communicating effectively. He was a counsellor, of course he knows how to do that, but it's great to see him use his brain and his power of articulation to solve problems (also, if you want to look at it obliquely, it's a thumb to the eye of the "he's well-spoken" trope).

Karli finding herself locked in to her path was kind of sad. It's like this with any radicalised people, I suppose - whoever they were or could have been is subsumed into her cause, and there's no way out. Her plan did seem very overly complicated, though. Why not just shoot all those people?

But seeing someone who has been utterly and completely fucked over by the world lashing out against it? It's hard not to empathise with that. I'm certainly not cheering the fact she was killed by a gangster who apparently profited on the misery and desperation of the world during the Blip.

Hopefully she becomes a martyr to those who would see the world become a fairer place, and inspires a less extreme movement. Unfortunately, if our real world is any indication, movements tend to get more extreme, not less. But maybe, with Sam using his power of communication again, those who might follow Karli will listen.

Marvel's progressive politics are on show, loud and proud, with this series. People sneer at Disney, and they are a heartless corporation, but those involved in creating the MCU, and those involved in making the comic book industry what it is, are generally good people with compassionate, inclusive views. 

I call bullshit on Sam's thrusters being powerful enough to hold up that armoured truck, by the way. They're strong enough to propel a man through the air, why would they be strong enough to lift something that weighs about eighty times that amount?

Bucky being thanked sincerely and taking a second to feel it was great. After eighty years doing awful shit, he finally gets to do something good (even if the people he was saving might be elitist arseholes) and gets recognition for it.

Him finally telling Yori the truth about his son was underplayed, which I liked. We didn't see whether Yori forgave him or cursed him out, but I suppose it doesn't matter. It was never about what Bucky feels, it was about giving Yori the truth about his son.

I love the cookout montage at the end, with Bucky charming ladies and children alike. This is the carefree young guy we met in The First Avenger, finally able to come to the fore again because he's at least able to put some of the awful shit that happened behind him.

Sharon the Power Broker - I and plenty of others called it. I'm not sure it's a good thing, and I really don't see Emily Van Camp as someone with enough charisma to be a lead villain, but I guess it makes a change from people becoming villains because they're pissed at Tony.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Danny Franks

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Sharon the Power Broker - I and plenty of others called it. I'm not sure it's a good thing, and I really don't see Emily Van Camp as someone with enough charisma to be a lead villain, but I guess it makes a change from people becoming villains because they're pissed at Tony.

No, apparently she took the villain turn because she was pissed at Steve.

Edited April 23, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[Hana Chan]

12 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Except how was she supposed to have known that? Genuine question, because you certainly would not know by seeing Bucky on the street that he's as old as he is. In the first episode when he was on his date with Leah, she asked him how old he was, and he said, "A hundred and six." Then kind of chuckled nervously and blew it off, because they didn't really talk about it since he took off not long after that. Hell, he's just recently stopped wearing the glove that covers his metal hand, so all that history Karli was just automatically supposed to be aware of is something he's barely put behind him. He's not Steve, someone people immediately know about. He's more Isaiah, a man burdened by his past and just starting to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and this time it's not a train.

Bucky's history, at least as far as his experience in WWII and with HYDRA is common enough knowledge that it's detailed at the Steve Rogers Smithsonian exhibit. Some closeups of his section of the exhibit were fairly explicit about the his history as the Winter Soldier. And that's after Natasha's info dump of HYDRA's files back in CATWS. A bit of Googling would probably have given Karli quite a bit of information about Bucky's past, if not all the details about him fighting against Thanos (though she should have assumed that since he was working with the Avengers that he would have been on the front lines both times). But this is the point that I was trying to make - you've got someone who is acting as if she knows everything and has all the answers when it's obvious that more often than not, she doesn't know much of anything.

Yes, it is awful for people who saw their lives improve before the Blip now finding that everything that they'd they'd gained is being "unfairly" (as they see it) taken away to help those who are returning. But Karli went from someone who had some real grievances and strong ideas to just another terrorist who had no issue with killing anyone that wasn't on her side. Whether it was low-level soldiers guarding supplies (that she felt were  unfairly being denied to her people), politicians who were left with no good answers to an impossible situation or Sam and Bucky who might sympathize with their cause but not agree with their methods, Karli's actions became indefensible. 

[Ohiopirate02]

Just now, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, apparently she took the villain turn because she was pissed at Steve.

I wish the show would have gone more in depth with Sharon.  She has a right to be pissed at Steve, and Sam, and maybe just a bit with Bucky.  She did stick her neck on the line for Steve in CW.  We see Steve rescue those on the Raft, but did he do anything to help Sharon in between CW and IW?  Sharon made the same choice as Sam and Wanda, but nary a peep about her in IW.  Was she forgotten by her allies? Was she working with an off-the-grid Nick Fury?  Why did Steve think she was blipped?  Why did Steve not tie up the loose ends with Sharon before his trip back in time?  

[LJones41]

Quote

Sharon the Power Broker - I and plenty of others called it. I'm not sure it's a good thing, and I really don't see Emily Van Camp as someone with enough charisma to be a lead villain, but I guess it makes a change from people becoming villains because they're pissed at Tony.

 

The problem is not that Emily Van Camp lacks the charisma to play the villain.  She had spent four years on "Revenge" portraying a character that was on the edge of villainy for the sake of revenge.  What I dislike is how the MCU pretty much destroyed the Sharon Carter character.  I hate the MCU for what they have done to her character.  The franchise has been screwing her over since "Captain America: Civil War".  This show was the last straw.

 

I hate this show.  I hate it for its convoluted writing.  I hate it for its pretense at progressive politics, when it was nothing more than an ode to centrist politics.  Because of this show, I now detest Bucky Barnes and his arrogant bullheadedness.  I hate this show for forgetting that Sam Wilson was the first Avenger to refuse to sign the Sokovia Accords.  I hate this show for so many reasons.  But I hate what it did to Sharon.  Screw the MCU.  I had hoped it recover from the bad writing that permeated Phase 3.  I see I was wrong.

Edited April 23, 2021 by LJones41

[Racj82]

44 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Help me understand the logic of why Power Broker Sharon would lead Bucky/Sam/Zemo to one of her most valuable assets in Nagel instead of just blowing them off, leading them on a wild goose chase, feeding them to the bounty hunters, etc.

Also, the implication was that the Power Broker was the one who put the bounty on Sam, Bucky and Zemo. If so, help me understand the logic behind that.

Help me understand the logic behind Power Broker Sharon not dispatching her own men to take out Karli and the supersoldiers when she had reason to suspect that they were in Latvia thanks to Sam and Bucky. 

The only logic behind her being the Power Broker is from the perspective that it would be unconventional for the mystery of who the Power Broker was to be solved with a previously unknown person, which left really two candidates if they were going to reveal PB's identity: Sharon and Senator Dickhead. 

Sharon is playing the long game. She gained the trust of the government and has the avengers in her back pocket now. 

Obviously,  a lot of the chess pieces being moved around are for plot. Just like most things where the most logical option would lead to a five minute show.

[Zonk]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

Welcome to comic book properties. You must be new here.

The MCU used to be pretty good at having non-powered humans, who have only gadgets, play to their strengths.

It's also pretty blatant since battlestar (dumb name) died by being thrown slightly hard against a pillar. You can't just have a normal human withstand the weight of an armoured truck two episodes after that.

5 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I guess we're supposed to believe the new Cap suit is kind of like the Iron Man suit and completely shields the normal human inside?  God bless vibranium. 

It's not an exoskeleton though. It's mostly just fabric. You could say it's bullet proof or something (though it didn't seem like it) but it can't, by its flexieble nature, protect you from being crushed.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Zonk

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Yes, it is awful for people who saw their lives improve before the Blip now finding that everything that they'd they'd gained is being "unfairly" (as they see it) taken away to help those who are returning. But Karli went from someone who had some real grievances and strong ideas to just another terrorist who had no issue with killing anyone that wasn't on her side. Whether it was low-level soldiers guarding supplies (that she felt were  unfairly being denied to her people), politicians who were left with no good answers to an impossible situation or Sam and Bucky who might sympathize with their cause but not agree with their methods, Karli's actions became indefensible. 

What @Danny Franks said is relevant, though, especially if you look at the difference between how Karli's life ended and how John's is turning out. How many people who are actually on the up and up know that John took the last of the serum? Sam knows, so maybe he told Bucky, but who else? Everyone who has been talking about how Karli killed people either doesn't seem bothered by or is fine with John beating some guy to death with the Captain America shield and saying "But he was a terrorist, so stomping him to death was absolutely warranted. " Maybe it's just the newly discovered Wanda Maximoff Effect, where there should always be consequences right up until there shouldn't. John didn't even tell Sam or Bucky he was sorry for the fight that might have killed at least Sam if not Bucky if he hadn't gotten his arm broken, but I guess they're all hunky dory  with him anyway so maybe he doesn't have to. And I also agree that Karli will become a martyr, because she was willing to die for her cause, but unfortunately she died because her ex-boss is a greedy capitalist who will now further exploit the opportunity she's been given. Yay? Ya'll want to cheer for Sharon killing Karli, that's fine too, but let's not behave as if John walking around loose and now with a new shadowy set of backers is defensible. Evil Alfred could have at least tried to blow him up if he'd known.

[calliope1975]

I forgot to mention I was a bit bummed none of the Flag Smashers decided Karli was too off the rails. It was hinted at a few times over the last episodes, but they stuck with her til the end. Okay, mostly I'm just bummed that the hottie Asian Aussie isn't going to be around anymore, because I'm shallow and he was hot and I liked looking at him. (If you haven't seen Asian Bachelorette on YouTube, there's 2 videos, both are great, and he's in the second one.) 

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Sharon is playing the long game. She gained the trust of the government and has the avengers in her back pocket now. 

Obviously,  a lot of the chess pieces being moved around are for plot. Just like most things where the most logical option would lead to a five minute show.

Giving up the person who created a new viable Super Soldier Serum is a major unforced error. It's like sacrificing your queen to take a pawn, risking your golden goose. No normal person, let alone a criminal mastermind, would do it. 

Being Sharon Carter, she already had the Avengers (or at least Sam and Bucky) in her corner. So it doesn't do anything for her to make them more grateful. 

[Minneapple]

The best part of the episode was the scenes with Sam and Bucky at the end. And, I'm glad John Walker is staying around, as weird as it sounds. He is the best new character to come out of the show.

Nothing about Sharon's plot made any sense to me. Also, she casually strolls out of a government building and makes plans to sell state secrets? At least wait until you're down the block, lady.

This is going to be unpopular, but I was not a fan of Sam's speech. I think it was because the speech was mostly cheesy platitudes, let's end racism, blah blah. For a show that actually handled race very well, and mostly subtly, it fell flat. For me, the kids playing with the shield and smiling up at Sam are much much more powerful than a speech. When Isaiah said "they" will never "let" a black man be Captain America and Sam was all, fuck "them," "I'M" going to be Captain America based on my "CHOICE," that to me says more than any speech ever could.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Minneapple

[Zonk]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

This is another moment where Karli's blindness to the suffering and sacrifice or anyone outside of her own little circle of followers really hamstrings her. To ask a man who fought the Nazis and HYDRA (pretty much the same thing), fought his way back to sanity after decades of being tortured and having his brain fried on a regular basis, taking up arms against a delusional alien with a massive army not once but twice to save the world and he's got this self-entitled child demanding to know if he's ever fought for a larger goal. 

I mean, would she know all that? Is that public record? Would she even know who he is other than a guy who keeps foiling her plans?

The old japanese dude didn't seem to know who Bucky was, neither did the japanese lady he flirted with.

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Help me understand the logic of why Power Broker Sharon would lead Bucky/Sam/Zemo to one of her most valuable assets in Nagel instead of just blowing them off, leading them on a wild goose chase, feeding them to the bounty hunters, etc.

Only guess: The prospect of a pardon and reinstatement as a high level SHIELD agent was more valuable to her than the super soldier serum.

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, the implication was that the Power Broker was the one who put the bounty on Sam, Bucky and Zemo. If so, help me understand the logic behind that.

Keeping up appearances? Would be weird if the power broker didn't put a bounty on their heads, right?

[Capricasix]

Ahhh, I did a little squee when Sam burst through the window in his new suit! And the kids hanging off Bucky’s arm at the end 💕

[Starfish35]

I might end up being wrong, but I’m convinced Sharon is a Skrull, and that this will end up feeding into the Secret Invasion series.

[dmeets]

I'd wondered since the beginning if the show would end with the title card changing to "Captain America and the White Wolf." Turned out to be half right. I'm a little annoyed that Sam now has two Avengers monikers (since, to my disappointment, Torres did not become the new Falcon at least not yet), while Bucky is still primarily known by his brainwashed assassin name. Winter Soldier's not exactly a name that can be reclaimed, even if Bucky is taking all the right steps to atone.

Maybe I'm being stubborn at this point, but I'm still not convinced Sharon as Power Broker is an actual villain.  I'd accept Skrull as well, though that would lead to the question of where's the real Sharon (unless this is the same Sharon we've seen since Winter Soldier). 

Also not sure on Val's status. Very curious what weird stuff she knows is coming that would be inappropriate for Captain America. Right now she and Walker do seem a lot like they're setting up to be the MCU's version of Amanda Waller and Rick Flagg. I'm glad there are still signs that Walker may still be a decent person, since U.S. Agent wasn't a villain just usually a morally gray dickhead.

Loved that quick scene during the cookout of Bucky casually talking while holding his vibranium arm out for the kids to dangle on.

Between the name change at the end and Disney/Marvel calling this show a drama for awards consideration purposes while Wandavision is being submitted as a limited series, signs seem to be pointing to a second season. I'm not sure where Power Broker fits into any of the Phase 4 movies, so I doubt we'll be seeing much of Sharon on the big screen. I'm also not sure where Walker or Torres would fit in to any of the announced movies so it seems like a second season would be the best way to further develop those characters. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by dmeets

[tennisgurl]

A whole lot to digest here. I think the show would have benefitted from another episode or two, both because I think the pacing of the episode could have been better, and just because I want more Sam and Bucky hijinks, but I think this was a good ending to the series. Season? Series? Whatever it was, it was great and I really appreciate that, between this and WandaVision, Marvel seems to be really open to trying new thing, taking more chances, and showing what all you can do in the medium of superhero stories. 

I freaking love Sam as Captain America ("Captain Falcon?" "Black Falcon?" Captain America.") he is exactly the man for the job. He can represent the people that have been ignored by their country, have been mistreated, who have had their history erased, he can show everyone that anyone can be Captain America who has the heart for it, regardless of what they look like or what they're background is. He can be what American can be if it works hard enough, as place of inclusivity and empathy, which is another reason that Sam is the perfect Cap, he has a tremendous capacity for empathy and understand other people, even people he is fighting. That's why he was the right guy to give the big speech at the end, and yeah big speeches are often a bit much but I think he pulled it off, and the speech really tied together the themes of the show. The world is a complicated place, and Sam is aware that being a black man carrying the shield is very complicated, but he wants to do what he can to make things better and to understand other people, to see their humanity and try to work with them instead of against him. While I can often sympathize with Karli and a lot of her goals really were noble, she really had a lot of the same flaws that the people she was fighting against. She was so hurt by everything that happened to her and to her people that she couldn't see other people's pain and wouldn't try to find a better way to try and fix things and ended up lashing out at a world that hurt her, so much that she couldn't see other people and what they have been through anymore. Like, yeah I'm sure Bucky, a man who fought Nazi's and Hydra and Thanos, and had horrible things happen to him over and over because of that fight, would have no clue what its like to fight for someone bigger then himself. She saw the people who came back post Snap as being a problem, not people that needed help too. Just like the people in charge who wanted to move everyone back to where they were five years ago and saw them all as problems that need solving and not people in need of help. While the season has a lot of themes, around national and personal identity and race and dealing with upheaval and trying to remember your past while looking towards the future, I think empathy actually became one of its biggest themes. To try to understand people and connect with them, instead of fighting them, and to try to use those connections to move on from a dark past. Sam is the best person to carry on Steve's legacy because he feels for people, for all people, and he cares deeply about them. 

Bucky had less to do in this episode than Sam, as Sam officially becoming the new Cap was understandably the focus on the episode, but he got a lot of good stuff to work with. Him telling his friend the truth about his son was just painful, but it did apparently finally give him some closure. I actually thought one of his bigger moments was when one of the soldiers called him Sergeant Barnes when he was coming to where the big meeting was taking place. Its taken him a long time, but he is finally getting back to the person he used to be before Hydra. Not the exact same person, too much had happened, but no longer the Winter Soldier. Just Bucky, guy from Brooklyn. Bucky and Sam growing closer has been one of the best threads of the season, going from them being often uneasy allies who struggled to understand each other to really coming to an understanding and becoming friends on their own, regardless of their connection to Steve. They aren't just two guys who have the same (possibly deceased, possibly on the Moon) best friend, but two guys who are really friends. Bucky seemed so happy in he end, finally finding acceptance with Sam and his family and his community, it was amazing to see. I think he smiles more in this episode than he has since the first Captain America movie, I could watch a whole series just of Bucky and Sam hanging with Sam's family and friends, kids hanging off his arm while charming the ladies, its just too cute to deal with. 

"Sorry I was texting while you were talking, all I heard was you being a black guy in red and and blue." 

Of course Zemo took out the last of the super soldiers, then just looks satisfied as he goes back to reading. Zemo was a great addition to the season, and I like that he stayed morally grey throughout. Clearly not a good guy, but not totally evil or without a sense of honor. He's just such a classy son of a bitch, its hard to stay mad at him. Even when he and his Alfred are blowing people up. 

I am surprised that Walker managed to pull himself back from the brink, I thought for sure he was going for full dark side. I still think this could easily go badly for him, especially as it seems like he hasn't fully learned his lesson yet, but we will see what happens next for US Agent and Countess Selena. 

On the other hand, I am sad that the theory that Sharon broke bad are true. I get that she was deeply hurt by what went down after Civil War, but it seems like she has gone full evil, and that seems like a sucky turn for her. She has always been badly handled by the MCU, more of a plot device or a half assed love interest, but it seemed like they were finally doing something interesting with her, but I am not happy about this. Weirdly, she ended up probably being the most actually villainous character of the season. Every other antagonistic faction, The Flag Smasher, Walker, Zemo, even the people trying to relocate people back to their original countries, really did think that they were doing a good thing and despite the awful acts they committed, were doing them for a greater good. Sharon has a good reason to be bitter, but until we know more about her greater goals, it seems like she has become driven by pure selfishness. Sam is going to be so hurt, after he went to bat for her and got her everything she said she wanted, that she would turn around and use that to just gain her own power and let more danger loose on the world. Its just sad to see this, what would Peggy say? 

Loved seeing the combined Captain America and Falcon costume, and he got a lot of cool moves in with his wings and shield combo. Redwing even returned! Everyone cheering for him was great to see, and of course the big Feels moment was when he went back to Isaiah, who seems more alive then we have ever seen him, and takes him to see his part of the museum. Its doesn't make everything better, but at least now people will know what he did for his country and what they did to him. 

Like I said, I think one or two more episodes would have helped this episode's pacing, but I really liked the episode and loved the show overall, and was very impressed by the acting, direction, character work, and the way they explored a post Snap world with a lot of moral ambiguity and complexity, while also having fun. 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

The MCU used to be pretty good at having non-powered humans, who have only gadgets, play to their strengths.

It's also pretty blatant since battlestar (dumb name) died by being thrown slightly hard against a pillar. You can't just have a normal human withstand the weight of an armoured truck two episodes after that.

It's not an exoskeleton though. It's mostly just fabric. You could say it's bullet proof or something (though it didn't seem like it) but it can't, by its flexieble nature, protect you from being crushed.

At the end of the day, if that's your focus point in the scene, the show has already lost you.

There is no answer that would make sense to you if you are unraveling the thread this much.

There is no wrong way to watch a show and your question is valid.

For me, my focus was how proud Bucky looked. How inspiring Sam was in that moment.  The determination of Sam. I don't care about the logic of it since I'm watching a property filled with non realistic things and varying Power levels. 

44 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

The best part of the episode was the scenes with Sam and Bucky at the end. And, I'm glad John Walker is staying around, as weird as it sounds. He is the best new character to come out of the show.

Nothing about Sharon's plot made any sense to me. Also, she casually strolls out of a government building and makes plans to sell state secrets? At least wait until you're down the block, lady.

This is going to be unpopular, but I was not a fan of Sam's speech. I think it was because the speech was mostly cheesy platitudes, let's end racism, blah blah. For a show that actually handled race very well, and mostly subtly, it fell flat. For me, the kids playing with the shield and smiling up at Sam are much much more powerful than a speech. When Isaiah said "they" will never "let" a black man be Captain America and Sam was all, fuck "them," "I'M" going to be Captain America based on my "CHOICE," that to me says more than any speech ever could.

For me, my focus of the speech Sam gave was the fact that Sam clearly listened and learned from every ally and foe he came across this season. That's what the speech was about and what I loved about it. Imo.

[GustavMahler]

Forgive me if I am repeating something that may have been mentioned, but wasn’t that Grant Imahara from Myth Busters in the photo as part of the old man’s Memorial to his son? If so, then that was a nice tribute to him, may he rest in peace. 

[VCRTracking]

Seeing some people online who are disappointed with this finale as well as Wandavision's and I think still don't get that Marvel from the beginning is always, ALWAYS setting up the next story or stories. Sometimes they do it while having a satisfying conclusion but more often they don't. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by VCRTracking

[Spartan Girl]

Just now, VCRTracking said:

I've seen some people who are disappointed with this finale as well as Wandavision's and I think still don't get that Marvel from the beginning is always, ALWAYS setting up the next story or stories. Sometimes they do it while having a satisfying conclusion but more often they don't.

FTR I wasn’t disappointed by WandaVision. They did a much better job with their villain and character development — other than Sam and Bucky’s arcs, the characters here have been a mixed bag.

[Minneapple]

2 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I've seen some people who are disappointed with this finale as well as Wandavision's and I think still don't get that Marvel from the beginning is always, ALWAYS setting up the next story or stories. Sometimes they do it while having a satisfying conclusion but more often they don't.

You can still tell a cohesive story with a satisfying conclusion and set up the next one. And clearly here they were going for "satisfying conclusion" -- witness the scenes at the end with everyone happy at the barbecue -- but a lot of it just fell flat. And the disappointing part is that I actually really enjoyed both WandaVision and Falcon and Winter Soldier, but the finales didn't live up to the rest of the series. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

37 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

For me, my focus of the speech Sam gave was the fact that Sam clearly listened and learned from every ally and foe he came across this season. That's what the speech was about and what I loved about it. Imo.

I mean that's fine but there are better ways to go about this than a long drawn-out speech that feels like it came from an afterschool special. You had here a show that said a LOT about racism, white privilege, American exceptionalism -- a lot of it in a really interesting way. So to end it all on a speech just made me groan.

[swanpride]

I think the main problem was that there was never truly any conflict regarding Sam taking up the shield. The show spend a lot of time on Sam struggling with his inner self, which was fine, but the bigger fight in the scenario would be to reclaim the shield after the government basically screwed him over regarding it. And we didn't GET that fight. Sam just had to pick it up from Walker, and Walker was declared unfit to be Captain American and that was that. Nobody ever tried to take the shield from Sam again, and there was no point at which he had to fight for being accepted as such, he just had to turn up and everyone was "okay". And then on top of it, he just had to speak to some people and bam, the secret the government was ready to kill for was on display in a museum. I mean - what? All this together makes it feel like Sam himself is a bigger problem than the unjust system in the US. 

Which it what I meant when I say that the show chickened out. Narratively it "redeemed" the US (through Sam just being accepted by the people in charge and by Walker being supposedly redeemed), and that just felt wrong. Especially when you contrast this with Bucky's story, which clearly states that redemption is not found in doing something for himself but for other. Seems like there are different rules at play when it comes the US. 

Speaking of Bucky, overall I feel they shortcharged him in the last episodes. Which is why I still think that the last episode should have given him the room to "finish his book" so to speak, instead of squeezing this in between a lot of stuff this episode. Him at the celebration was a nice touch, mostly because he had his arm out all the time, meaning he had made his peace with it and had found people who truly weren't bothered by it. 

And Sharon...it's not because of the "twist" which most people saw coming from a mile away. It is because the twist doesn't make a lick of sense. I said it regarding WandaVision and I say it again: Marvel better hire some Agents of Shield writers, because they know how to deliver a satisfying twist. The only way this makes sense is if Sharon is the power broker in order to get to someone even more powerful, or, more likely, she is actually a scrull in disguise and the real Sharon is in a prison somewhere, waiting to get the role Cap had in Earth Mightiest heroes. 

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, as almost everyone predicted, it really looks like Sharon Carter is the Power Broker or is at least connected in some form.  Can't say that's the most surprising thing to happen in the MCU, but I really wonder what would cause her to "break bad" more or less.  I wonder if was due to how things played out in Civil War or if something happened during the Blip (can't remember if she was a victim or not during it) that caused her to go down this path.  Then again, perhaps there is something more going on like her actually being a Skrull (set-up for Secret Invasion, perhaps?) or she is actually undercover, although that wouldn't explain her sinister smirk at the end, since she wasn't doing it for anyone's benefit.  So many questions here.

Thrilled that Sam has assumed the Captain America mantle now: complete with a new, badass suit that still has his Falcon wings.  Wakanda really knows how to make a superhero outfit!  Realistically, I have to think it won't be an easy road for him because he sadly will get pushback and flat-out hate simply for the color of his skin, but I'm glad he seems to know this and is prepared to take on the challenge headfirst.  Because I really do think there is no one better suited for the job than him.  Sure, there will be no one quite like Steve Rodgers.  But Sam Wilson doesn't need to be another Steve Rodgers.  Because Sam on his own already has the ethics, history, morality, and honor to be the new Captain America and be the best of what the country can offer.  I so can't wait to see more of him in this role going forward.

Bucky took somewhat of a backseat here, but I'm glad that he finally confessed his/Winter Solider's past deeds to Yori and seems to have "completed his book" finally.  While I'm sure everything he did will stick with him for the rest of his life, I hope this really means he won't be haunted by his past anymore, and can move forward.  Because as far as I'm concerned, he earned it.

In the end, Karli went out the only way she likely ever was going to.  Again, she and the Flag Smashers had an understandable idea on paper, but they allowed their anger and grief to send them down on a dark and violent path that killed or put innocent lives in danger.  Of course, even if they didn't, it certainly looked like Zemo wasn't going to let them walk off in the sunlight!  Should have known that man would have ways to continue his mission even on the Raft.  While I'm sure there will be plenty of debates over who the best MCU villain is, at the very least, Zemo has to be the one who has the best win/loss ratio, when it comes to accomplishing what he set out to do.

Walker at least seems to realize that he was somewhat of an ass now and made a few small steps in the right direction, but he still has a ways to go I think.  But now it looks like he going by a new moniker now (US Agent), and is working with Valentina now, so I'm guessing he might still be more shades of grey going forward.

I didn't mind Sam's speech being cheesy because it worked for his character, but I really don't think it would have swayed any of the politicians minds, in a real way.  They would have found ways to dismiss it, claim they are doing "what's right/making the hard choices", and subtly claim Sam "doesn't understand", and a good portion of the public would probably buy it.

Loved Isaiah Bradley getting his own spot in the Captain America museum.  Once again, Carl Lumbly did so much with the material here and I really hope we see this character again in some form.

Sam, Bucky, and the rest of the Wilson family and friends celebrating in Louisiana was a nice way to end things.

If I had one major complaint, it would be that this was one of the few series that I think could have benefited from another episode or two, as I feel like they could of expanded upon a few things more and fleshed them out better, like Walker's journey, Sharon's meddling, and the Flag Smashers as a whole.  I'm usually not wild about flashback episodes, but it might have been nice to have had an episode that just focused on Karli's origin story and showed the creation of the Flag Smashers.  Still, the show is still a success in my eyes, because it did accomplish it's main goal of letting Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes shine like they haven't before, and I can't wait to see more of them in the MCU.  Great casting as always as well; with special recognition to Wyatt Russell and Daniel Bruhl (and not just his impressive dance skills!), but this really was all on Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan here, and after being great supporting performers in the films, they really showed that they can be just as great front and center, and I can't wait to see more of The Falc... sorry, Captain America and The Winter Solider!

[swanpride]

Frankly, I didn't care about Karli or the Flag Smashers during the whole show. Like, I basically disliked her the moment this one guy did to "buy time" for her. If she had really that a good person underneath it all, SHE would have gone instead of allowing someone else to die for her. That's what Cap would have done. That's what ANY avenger would have done to a degree, that Clint and Natasha even fought for the right. But not Karli. She wasn't a hero who lost the way, the people with her were. But I am supposed to feel for her. It's a little bit like being asked to feel for Osama Bin Laden and not for the young people who are systematically radicalised until they die for the cause. Like, I was way more sad for the exploding prisoner transport than her whispering "sorry" for no discernable reason in the end. (Btw...weren't there 8 Supersoliders? So there was Karli, the guy who sacrificed himself, the guy who got beheaded by Walker and the four in the end...what happened to the eight one? Was that the guy Sharon melted?)

And yet Walker managed to be even MORE unlikable than Karli, which is quite a feat. Am I now supposed to think that everything is okay now because he didn't act like a complete dick for five seconds? Pass.

Sharon made no sense (yeah, it bears repeating) 

It's really saying something that the best villain in the show is the guy who wasn't even opposing the heroes during the show. 

Marvel really needs to learn that how you end your show is maybe more important than how you start it. It's easy to forgive a clunky beginning, a dissatisfying ending, not so much. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

I mean, would she know all that? Is that public record? Would she even know who he is other than a guy who keeps foiling her plans?

The old japanese dude didn't seem to know who Bucky was, neither did the japanese lady he flirted with.

Only guess: The prospect of a pardon and reinstatement as a high level SHIELD agent was more valuable to her than the super soldier serum.

Keeping up appearances? Would be weird if the power broker didn't put a bounty on their heads, right?

Karli claimed to be thinking about recruiting Bucky. And she did enough research about Sam to know where his sister and nephews lived. So I think it's safe to say that she knows (or should be expected to know) enough about Bucky to know that he served in WWII and he fought Thanos. It would have been so easy to tweak the line to be like, "You know what it's like to fight in a war larger than yourself. You fought against Nazis. You fought Thanos." 

Just like in real life, some people recognize celebrities and some people don't. Part of it depends on context. Of the Baltimore cops, one didn't recognize him at first. In this episode, a cop instantly said Sgt. Barnes. 

As to Sharon, it's still problematic and nonsensical for her to be the PB no matter how you slice it.

I don't know why wanting a pardon and reinstatement could conceivably be worth it to her. As the Power Broker, she apparently has a vast fortune and resources. The downsides of her situation are she supposedly can't go home and her parents don't know where she is. Even assuming that is true and she wasn't playing Sam and Bucky, such things are small prices to pay to have enough money that you can drop $58m as a possible reward to get Bucky, Sam and Zemo.

But let's say that she does have a burning desire to get a pardon and reinstatement to SHIELD. She should be able to get these things without giving up Nagel. In fact, if she is actually the Power Broker with all the connections the name implies, she is absolutely sucktastic at the job if she can't get a pardon that when Staring Murder Machine did. And even if she felt like she needed to engineer something to make it a sure thing, she could do something smarter than risking a person who is the mind behind a trillion dollar formula. 

There are better ways to keep up appearances than to kill a person who might represent a lead to Nagel, then to lead Our Heroes to Nagel, then to either have assassins truly try to kill Our Heroes and possibly her just hoping that none of them get lucky or to orchestrate an elaborate fake ambush that plays out even while Our Heroes aren't there to witness it.

[cambridgeguy]

It seems like the biggest issue is the about face they did in the finale.  John Walker (you know, someone the show has deliberately built up to enrage fans) inexplicably presented as a kind of decent person.  He saves the innocents, appears to be on good terms with Sam/Bucky, and is last seen happily signing up to work for Val.  You get the impression he wants to do the right thing, which doesn't involve going on a vendetta against the government or Sam/Bucky.  In addition his wife, who appears to be a good, normal person, is totally OK with him in spite of the cold blooded murder and questionable behavior.  Meanwhile, due to conservation of characters Sharon Carter isn't just a burned agent who had to do some sketchy stuff to survive thanks to Our Heroes but is still helping out, she's the Power Broker and has gone all in on the criminal actions even though she now has a full pardon and job offer.

Edited April 23, 2021 by cambridgeguy

[calliope1975]

I wish there had been a shot of Rhodey watching Sam's speech or some way of showing that he knew Sam was now Cap. Would've been a nice wraparound from the first ep.

[bourbon]

Wow, I just did not like this show. I had such high hopes after WandaVision, but even that kind of missed the mark in the finale. This show just left me cold. 

It just didn't seem to know what it wanted to be. It felt like any time the writers didn't know what to do, they would just throw in some whacky bro-tastic bickering between Sam and Bucky. And I'm all for layered villains, but there's a difference between that and just not really knowing how to handle a character. John Walker? Hero or villain? The lack of certainty about that seemed less like a writing choice and just the writers having no idea how to handle him. 

And speaking of villains, I was not feeling Karli as a villain. Didn't care about her. Didn't care about her cause. I kept feeling like we were supposed to be conflicted about the Flag Smashers and draw real-world parallels to refugees, but it was all so heavy-handed. This isn't why I watch MCU. If I want moral ambiguities, I can find that done better elsewhere. 

On a side note...someone referred to Bucky as "Sgt Barnes." That poor guy still hasn't gotten a promotion in 70+ years?

Edited April 23, 2021 by bourbon

[silverstream]

Seems like I'm the only one so far, but I really disliked the scene at Isaiah's exhibit. The last time they met, Isaiah told Sam he didn't want to be put in the spotlight because he was afraid that would put a target on his back and, at least as far as he told it, the government still believed him dead (no idea how that squares with him living with his grandson, but still). For Sam to get his story out in the open means that either he's now a hunted man or he's a dumb-dumb that could have had a normal life years ago if he just didn't have such a pessimistic outlook. Both are pretty bad looks.

Even if Sam omitted that Isaiah is still alive (which seems likely, otherwise you would have expected the designers of the exhibition to ask for some input from Isaiah, or at the very least for permission), anybody interested in looking for him wouldn't have to look very hard. And even apart from that, the fact that Sam ignored Isaiah's express wishes (especially since those express wishes were connected to a fear that he'd be killed) makes Sam look bad regardless of outcome. One can only hope that Isaiah's story being out in the open means he'll at least get some reparation payments or an official apology (not that that would undo anything, but it sure wouldn't hurt).

[starri]

To me, the show wasn't about Sam and Bucky defeating the Flag Smashers or John Walker.  The real thrust of the story was A) Sam accepting that he was the only true Captain America now that Steve is gone, and B) Bucky figuring out how to forgive himself.  Zemo and the others were just obstacles to that that had to be overcome.  In that light, I came away from the finale very satisfied.

There was a tiny moment where the GRC guy got Sam's attention by asking "Cap?" before getting him to rescue the last Flag Smasher.

I also think Sam dealing with the truck is a little less problematic since I assume the suit is made with vibranium.

[arc]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Her plan did seem very overly complicated, though. Why not just shoot all those people?

She's not a sheer mass murderer. She was hoping to take all those VIPs hostage to demand the end to the refugee resettlements. As a political theory of change, it's not super sound -- you need a lot more guerrilla war, from a lot more true believers, to effect sustained change either by hostages or killing. But she wasn't going into this planning to kill everyone.

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course Zemo took out the last of the super soldiers, then just looks satisfied as he goes back to reading.

Why did he look so pleased though, like he had finished the job? There are a truckload of superhumans left. If he wants to ignore Wakanda (super technology) and the sorcerers (who mostly leave themselves out of human affairs) and Asgardians on Earth (speak of being anti-elitist when there's a space god refugee colony on Earth), there's still all the co-stars from Endgame. Plus Walker. Walker was hauling that armored truck up by himself. Even if Zemo is only obsessed with super-soldiers rather than every superhuman, there's Isaiah Bradley, Bucky, and Walker left alive.

4 hours ago, GustavMahler said:

Forgive me if I am repeating something that may have been mentioned, but wasn’t that Grant Imahara from Myth Busters in the photo as part of the old man’s Memorial to his son? If so, then that was a nice tribute to him, may he rest in peace. 

I'd assume that's Akie Kotabe, who played RJ in episode 1.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

She should be able to get these things without giving up Nagel.

Not that they showed it at all onscreen, but for this to make sense she should at least have gotten the formula for the serum before basically arranging for Nagel's death. Which, maybe she did do. As the Power Broker who supplied all of Nagel's equipment, it's hard to imagine Nagel could have kept secrets from her.

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

It seems like the biggest issue is the about face they did in the finale.  John Walker (you know, someone the show has deliberately built up to enrage fans) inexplicably presented as a kind of decent person.  He saves the innocents, appears to be on good terms with Sam/Bucky, and is last seen happily signing up to work for Val.

Arthur Chu on twitter made the point* that it reads less like a redemption arc if you know that the Contessa is evil. Now, she dresses kinda evil, has a purple streak of hair, and talks like a sinister know it all so she should seem vaguely evil. But OTOH, MCU Nick Fury does all that stuff as well (substitute eyepatch for dyed streak). So like he said, it may mostly depend on knowing the source comics.

* light comics-based speculative spoilers in that thread if you continue

Anyways, I'm gonna transcribe what I can read of the Isaiah Bradley plaque at the Smithsonian:

Quote

Isaiah Bradley

Isaiah Bradley is an American hero whose name went unknown for too long

Isaiah was one of a dozen African-American soldiers who were recruited against their will and without their consent for participation in human testing in pursuit of the super-soldier serum. Most did not survive. The few who lived through testing were sent on secret missions during the Korean War. During the conflict, against all odds, Isaiah Bradley rescued his fellow soldiers and 28 other POWs from behind enemy lines.

However, fearful of the ramifications of a Black super soldier, some individuals within the government tried to erase Isaiah's story from history. His family was issued a falsified death certificate and for decades the truth of his unflinching bravery was buried.

 

[RedElf]

Where are the Flagsmashers getting the money for all of their toys?

The closed captioning called Sam "Captain America".

Disappointed in Sharon.

Sam is awesome.

Zemo gets the job done.

Dammit, they got me at the end.

 

[arc]

1 minute ago, RedElf said:

Where are the Flagsmashers getting the money for all of their toys?

Stealing, mostly, plus donations from like-minded individuals. Karli wasn't wrong about leading a movement.

[Chicago Redshirt]

18 minutes ago, arc said:

Not that they showed it at all onscreen, but for this to make sense she should at least have gotten the formula for the serum before basically arranging for Nagel's death. Which, maybe she did do. As the Power Broker who supplied all of Nagel's equipment, it's hard to imagine Nagel could have kept secrets from her.

When Sharon is on the phone with someone after being reinstated, she talks about the notion that although they don't have the SSS any more, she'll now have access to government secrets and tech. 

Again, putting aside the stupidity of mustache-twirling within a few yards of the government building, she should realize that not having the SSS is a trillion-dollar loss. People upthread have speculated that maybe this Sharon is a Skrull, and I guess if that's the case it would make more sense. Such a person isn't necessarily in search of money or even the power that the SSS could bring. 

But of course, if she's a Skrull, she should be able to get access to government tech and secrets anyway by shapeshifting into people who have that clearance. 

[Bill1978]

5 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I might end up being wrong, but I’m convinced Sharon is a Skrull, and that this will end up feeding into the Secret Invasion series

After sleeping on the finale, I to am hoping the Sharon we saw is a Skrull. I would actually find it quite interesting if it turns out we had two Sharons on the show. We initially had Real Sharon and the later parts are Skrull Sharon. Not sure where Real Sharon is...

And as much as the show wanted me to feel sad over Karli dying (so young, misguided blah blah blah), after what they had her do this episode I was happy to finally be rid of her.

[RedElf]

12 hours ago, magdalene said:

As someone that never saw John Walker as the  one note villain a lot of the Internet did and chafed against the intense dislike Wyatt Russell got from that quarter - it was sweet to see what the show did with him in this final episode.

And since I had totally disliked Karli throughout and never saw her as any kind of hero - good bye and good riddance.

I just have such a hard time believing Sharon Carter as the Power Broker. I am grasping at straws, could she be a Skrull?

Is this an intro into Armor Wars?  And are Sharon and Val working together?

[Sakura12]

Sharon, what would your great Aunt Peggy think. Although they hinted that Peggy's brother was evil in Agent Carter and that would be Sharon's grandfather so maybe she always had that in her. But it kind of felt tacked on. She's also tainting her Aunt's legacy. Unless of course she's a Skrull and real Sharon is trapped in Space somewhere.

While I thought Walker was an entitled ass, I never thought he was evil. He did do the right thing in the end. I guess we'll see where it goes from here. 

I'm guessing Sam's entire suit is made of vibranium so he can all those hits from super soliders. Still think he should call himself Uncle Sam. But that doesn't have the same ring as Captain America. 

While it won't make up for everything that happened to him. Isaiah will be remembered as a hero. So his story will matter to others.

Are they going to make another series called Captain America and the Winter Solider. 

[tennisgurl]

I haven’t really mentioned it before, but I absolutely love the ending credits, they’re so detailed and evocative. I love all the shots of the ripped up signs and redacted texts, it really adds atmosphere. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by tennisgurl

[mac123x]

Sharon being the Power Broker has some logical inconsistencies and plot holes in-universe.  I think that most people who guessed she was the PB did it for Doylist reasons:  with both F&WS and WandaVision, they've taken two main-line characters from the MCU movies, but otherwise limited themselves to tertiary characters (Darcy, Jimmy Woo, Sharon).  They weren't going to introduce a new character for the Power Broker, or bring in anyone major from the movies, so Sharon wins be default.

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Help me understand the logic of why Power Broker Sharon would lead Bucky/Sam/Zemo to one of her most valuable assets in Nagel instead of just blowing them off, leading them on a wild goose chase, feeding them to the bounty hunters, etc.

Wildly speculating that she realized Super Soldiers were more trouble than they were worth?  I don't know.  I don't remember if she was there for Zemo's "yes but there was only one Steve Rogers" speech about Super Soldiers, but maybe she believed that.

More likely, it was poor writing in an effort to cover up the twist.  A failed effort.

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, the implication was that the Power Broker was the one who put the bounty on Sam, Bucky and Zemo. If so, help me understand the logic behind that.

I read that scene differently -- the bounty popped up immediately after [name I can't remember] died -- I assumed she had it preprogrammed as a sort of fail-safe.  None of the Madripoorian criminals would want to kill her because they'd know they'd become the target of an instant bounty hunt.  Of course, our heroes were unaware of it so shit hit the fan.  I kind of wish they'd spelled it out though.

[paigow]

24 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Are they going to make another series called Captain America and the Winter Solider. 

Evidence now points to a movie rather than Season 2...

[Captain Carrot]

6 hours ago, Zonk said:

I mean, would she know all that? Is that public record? Would she even know who he is other than a guy who keeps foiling her plans?

I just re-watched the scene with them talking on the phone and she was aware of his body count. I would assume that means she's aware of the whole story.

[Gin and Tonic]

2 hours ago, bourbon said:

It just didn't seem to know what it wanted to be. It felt like any time the writers didn't know what to do, they would just throw in some whacky bro-tastic bickering between Sam and Bucky. And I'm all for layered villains, but there's a difference between that and just not really knowing how to handle a character. John Walker? Hero or villain? The lack of certainty about that seemed less like a writing choice and just the writers having no idea how to handle him. 

Overall, I think I enjoyed the show more than you did, but I agree that it was kind of all over the place. I felt like the writers took a lot of shortcuts, and a lot of the emotional beats succeeded because Mackie and Stan are so good, not because they were earned by the storytelling. 

Zemo apparently took up Russian after Civil War. He had a book of Pushkin in his cell. 

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Yeah, I didn't buy anybody listening to Sam's speech. World leaders hear impassioned speeches every day and go about their business like nothing happened.

Since Sam just saved Senator Dickhead, the speech carries more weight. 

[LaJefaza]

I'm not that pressed about Sharon being the Power Broker, especially since many here figured that out pretty early, so it was anticlimactic... but I am totally confused that this supposedly brilliant woman who has been surviving for years on sheer wit and grit would, on the very steps of the building in which she had now been pardoned, be having that loud ass conversation on the phone. "SECRETS! SECRETS! COME GET YA SECRETS! I'M SELLIN SECRETS!" I mean WTF?

Did Walker's wife...NOT notice how twitchy he was when he came out in that new costume? How can she NOT tell that something is off with him?

10 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

He's not Steve's Bucky or HYDRA's attack dog or even Wakanda's White Wolf. He's himself.

Perfection. Perfectly said. His lovable personality returning at the end really proves Ayo right. Even Steve hadn't seen this guy in years. He's back, and he's free. 

Sam turning up in that suit and people cheering him on was the payoff he deserves. He may not be perfect, and he may not get everyone's support, but dammit he deserves this, and he finally knows it. 

"No, that's Captain America." Damn right, he is.

Zemo being a lovable rapscallion till the end tickled me, I'll admit it. 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by LaJefaza

[paigow]

39 minutes ago, Gin and Tonic said:

Zemo apparently took up Russian after Civil War. He had a book of Pushkin in his cell. 

Pretty sure he learned it well before, so he could locate that guy who was running the Siberian base...