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S17.E13: Good as Hell

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Amidst the need for more surgeons, Jo tries to convince Bailey to let her switch specialties; Link accuses Amelia of overstepping while he is treating a patient remotely; Winston comes up with an out-of-the-box idea.

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Original air date: 4/22/21

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Maybe I missed it but when did Winston become employed at the hospital?

Edited by Crashcourse
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Oh, god. “She’s not just Maggie’s sister, she is Dr. Meredith Grey”.   Gag me!  Ugh.  

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The Meredith and Derek moments tonight, and throughout the season, were really lovely. Seeing the beloved faces of Derek, George, Lexie, and Mark was such a treat and - in my opinion - wonderfully done. For them, I will miss the beach. 

Of course Meredith was going to wake up. If she didn't the show would be over. But I like that Zola was with her when it happened. 

Jo switching specialties is so lame. Not that I care much about her, anyway… 

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I just don't see this supposed great love that Meredith has for her children. She said it in actual words on the beach to Derek that kids survive death (her kids, that have already lost their father) and she didn't go back on her own at the end; she went back because Derek told her she needed to and gave her permission to like she gave him. Contrast Meredith to Maggie and Amelia who have essentially given up most of their lives to raise Meredith's three children (and a newborn) these last four/five months.

When, exactly, did Link accuse Amelia of overstepping like the episode guide said? 

Freaking Owen. You do NOT call a patient's family to tell them their daughter died, say there were complications, and then put them on hold!!

Edited by LexieLily
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Finally we can leave the d@mn beach! 


And can we talk about how selfish Meredith is??? “I’m so tired. You lost your father at a young age and you turned out fine.” Are you freaking kidding me!?!? Meredith would rather leave her 3 kids without parents to be with Derrick on the beach!?!? Just selfish. Ugh!

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I cried a little when Derek said, "You gave me what I needed until my last breath." I imagine that's what any spouse would like to hear their partner tell them.

However, Derek having to essentially beg Meredith to go back, so she can be with their children was a TERRIBLE look. Egads. It was so unbelievably selfish that I don't think I can look at her the same way, and I'm someone that generally likes Meredith.

On a lighter note, when Bailey asked, "Was the poem about murder?" I laughed. It was such a logical question, LOL.

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3 minutes ago, Jeopardy15 said:

Finally we can leave the d@mn beach! 


And can we talk about how selfish Meredith is??? “I’m so tired. You lost your father at a young age and you turned out fine.” Are you freaking kidding me!?!? Meredith would rather leave her 3 kids without parents to be with Derrick on the beach!?!? Just selfish. Ugh!

Yes, she sounded pretty awful in that scene. I guess we were supposed to think it was the pull of Derrick or something? Or that she was just that weak from Covid? But glad she is finally awake and that it happened when Zola was there.

I think Winston is the first doctor on Grey's to ever bring up that he has a conflict and shouldn't operate on someone. It made me laugh because he has less of a relationship to Meredith than anyone else on the show.

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19 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

The Meredith and Derek moments tonight, and throughout the season, were really lovely. Seeing the beloved faces of Derek, George, Lexie, and Mark was such a treat and - in my opinion - wonderfully done. For them, I will miss the beach.

I was affected by his pressing his face into her hair, like he was trying to smell her. OK, it sounds weird typing it out that way, but it touched me. Like he was trying to take in all of her. And how he said he misses the pain, too.

I'll also miss the beach--the part with George was especially well done. Though I enjoyed Lexie and Mark, too.

But I agree with those saying it seemed like he had to push her to go back to her kids, that she wouldn't have gone back for them without his pushing her. I mean, sure, the idea of a peaceful beach with your love who had died is nice. But as a parent, I'd like to think my drive would be to go back for my child rather than taking the easy way. Especially as they'd then be orphaned.

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Zola: "Mommy you came back."
Meredith "Yah only because Daddy made me."

That was basically what that felt like

however (cynic aside)- it was a touching episode. I am glad that Bailey realized that her situation was a her problem, not a Jo problem.

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I will respectfully disagree:  I didn't get the sense that Derek had to push her, or beg her, or force her to go back.  They weren't exactly the most well done scenes (not the actors' fault at all, I blame the writing), but I think the show really was trying to portray how tired, sick, and disoriented Meredith is from covid.  I don't love the character of Meredith or think of her as "the sun" or whatever, but I am giving her the benefit of the doubt here.  When faced with the lovely beach and a pain-free future with Derek, or the rough, painful immediate recovery from covid and then the rest of life, why wouldn't she be tempted? 

That said, I thought the scene with her waking up was actually pretty bad.  I never like to criticize the acting if I can help it, but that's where I didn't care for her being practically comatose one second, and then speaking in full, clear sentences the next.  It was like her eyes just popped right open and she'd only been napping on the couch for 5 minutes.  Wouldn't her throat be super dry and scratchy, at the very least?

I guess Bailey hired Winston and we just didn't see it.  Nepotism much?

I'm actually glad that Amelia's surgery and their patient got the Hollywood ending.  Most of the time don't those kind of things go bad?  Amelia couldn't have been able to handle that, and it's nice to see that she has her demons but is working on them.

Does Link's mom still live in an RV in the driveway?  Why was he so surprised to see her there?  They need her.

As for the previews, when did April move 11 hours away from Seattle and take Harriet with her?  Or are we to assume that Jackson is driving back in the rain from wherever he was?  

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4 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

As for the previews, when did April move 11 hours away from Seattle and take Harriet with her?  Or are we to assume that Jackson is driving back in the rain from wherever he was?  

They haven't mentioned April in awhile, so I guess she could have moved. But we saw Jackson with Harriet earlier this season, so a move would have to be pretty recent. Now that I think about it that may have been a Station 19 scene. 

I'm guessing Jackson is driving back and we will hear about wherever he went when he tells April. It seems like he's been gone a few days already, so that is enough time to drive 11 hours, have something happen, and drive back.

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Owen shut Teddy down quick today but it makes me nervous that they are going to put them back together. And since when are Teddy and Tom talking?

Edited by LexieLily
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Sometimes when we visit those in hospitals, it’s to give them permission to go. Sometimes, it’s to remind them to fight. I personally don’t know the exhaustion from fighting a horrible injury or disease, nor how exhausting and overwhelming it can be. Right now, I think I’d want folks on both sides of the universe to tell me to come back. Someday, though......

I would never think less of a mother or father or anyone really who was just too tired or sick to rally.  

This show can really still get to me now & then.

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14 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

They haven't mentioned April in awhile, so I guess she could have moved. But we saw Jackson with Harriet earlier this season, so a move would have to be pretty recent. Now that I think about it that may have been a Station 19 scene. 

I'm guessing Jackson is driving back and we will hear about wherever he went when he tells April. It seems like he's been gone a few days already, so that is enough time to drive 11 hours, have something happen, and drive back.

Station 19 or not, it's still "canon" (or whatever it's called) in Shondaland.  I also get the feeling that would be a big storyline and it should have come up - Catherine Fox would have something to say about her granddaughter moving that far away, I think.  I also never got the sense that Matthew would want to leave Seattle since I think they showed that his family was all there too.  But, anything is possible.

If he did go to Montana and back, maybe he goes to see her because she is one who was with him in Montana before?  That sounds reasonable.

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Please don’t make me watch again.

Question.  Statue ( name) said Glasses could move in to his place.  Glasses said jo is sad going to spend time with her.  Jo came out.  What was said next?  I just saw Statue looking mad/ perplexed.

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25 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Please don’t make me watch again.

Question.  Statue ( name) said Glasses could move in to his place.  Glasses said jo is sad going to spend time with her.  Jo came out.  What was said next?  I just saw Statue looking mad/ perplexed.

Jo happily announced Bailey was letting her change specialties and acted confused that Glasses was talking about movies. Glasses tried to shut her up, but the boyfriend seemed to know Glasses was lying.

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As if I needed yet another reason to dislike Teddy, as the ICU nurse was going home Teddy said "That should have been Meredith." I know that everyone on this show is supposed to endlessly praise Our Lady of the Sun but how about hoping that they both get better rather than Meredith go home while the nurse takes her unconscious place.

I know that Jo wants to move on from surgery but it's incredibly selfish to leave now when the surgical staff is short doctors. You won't die if you wait until the pandemic of a century is over

2 hours ago, LexieLily said:

When, exactly, did Link accuse Amelia of overstepping like the episode guide said?

When Linc was doing his appointment with the pitcher and Amelia noticed something about him and took over the pad.

Once again, Linc and Amelia are the most adult couple on the show. They had a disagreement, talked it out, Amelia apologized, and Linc susupporteher when she was worrying about the surgery.

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4 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Maybe I missed it but when did Winton become employed at the hospital?

Not only employed at the hospital, but since he seems to be in cardio, also reporting to his fiancee. I work in an industry where the stakes are much lower, and superior-subordinate relationships are an absolute no-no. But apparently neither Maggie nor Bailey see anything wrong with that.

3 hours ago, Jeopardy15 said:

And can we talk about how selfish Meredith is??? “I’m so tired. You lost your father at a young age and you turned out fine.”

I wish Derek had pointed out that he wouldn't have turned out fine if it hadn't been for his mother.

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

As for the previews, when did April move 11 hours away from Seattle and take Harriet with her?  Or are we to assume that Jackson is driving back in the rain from wherever he was?  

I thought April and Jackson were splitting time with Harriet 50/50, so if April had moved that far away it should have been a storyline.

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4 hours ago, Jeopardy15 said:

Finally we can leave the d@mn beach! 


And can we talk about how selfish Meredith is??? “I’m so tired. You lost your father at a young age and you turned out fine.” Are you freaking kidding me!?!? Meredith would rather leave her 3 kids without parents to be with Derrick on the beach!?!? Just selfish. Ugh!

I haven’t watched it yet, but she must have forgotten about everything that Amelia has been through, after she also witnessed her father being murdered.  Meredith didn’t even seem to want Derek around much, in that final season, until just before they killed him off. 

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1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Not only employed at the hospital, but since he seems to be in cardio, also reporting to his fiancee. I work in an industry where the stakes are much lower, and superior-subordinate relationships are an absolute no-no. But apparently neither Maggie nor Bailey see anything wrong with that.

We are 17 seasons in, and Superior-Subordinate relationships have been a thing on this show since Day 1.

It doesn’t make it right, but given everyone else’s relationships that they are in (or have been in) that crossed the superior-subordinate gap, I’d have more of an issue with it if they made it a problem for Maggie & Winston.

At least in this case, they’re both attendings.

Edited by PrincessTT
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6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Not only employed at the hospital, but since he seems to be in cardio, also reporting to his fiancee. I work in an industry where the stakes are much lower, and superior-subordinate relationships are an absolute no-no. But apparently neither Maggie nor Bailey see anything wrong with that.

Oh yeah, no one cares here.  Meredith reported to Derek for awhile while she was pursuing neuro before general surgery.  Ben reported to Bailey... and I'm sure there are plenty others that I can't remember.  

Edited by FnkyChkn34 · Reason: fixed typo
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Generally an ok episode. I did like Meredith saying "We love you" to Zola. The use of "we" was nice. 

Downside: more of this Meredith is the sun stuff; Glasses remains; more Glasses/Nico storylines of stupidity

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9 hours ago, pennben said:

Sometimes when we visit those in hospitals, it’s to give them permission to go. Sometimes, it’s to remind them to fight. I personally don’t know the exhaustion from fighting a horrible injury or disease, nor how exhausting and overwhelming it can be. Right now, I think I’d want folks on both sides of the universe to tell me to come back. Someday, though......

My husband was in the  hospital and not going to recover. Not from Covid but from alcoholism related issues.  He was unconscious and awaiting transfer to hospice care.  I told him it was OK for him to let go.  He died two hours after I left the hospital.  

As mentioned by another poster I blame the writing for it appearing like Meredith wanted to stay with Derek and abandon her children.  Do I think Meredith is the best mother? No. Do I think she would willingly leave her children? No.

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Yeah, count me as another who thinks that they wrote Meredith waking up really badly. Yes, it absolutely seemed like it was Derek telling her to go back, rather than Meredith coming to that conclusion on her own. They could have had Meredith give her speech about being so tired and blahblahblah...but then they easily could have added in Meredith saying "But I think I have to go back to our kids. Just for a little while." Something that wasn't Derek doing all the talking. 

And yeah, Meredith waking up as if she just took a nap was a weird choice. And yes, I also noted that Meredith said "we" to Zola, meaning her and Derek. 

Of course Schmitt is now reluctant to move in with Nico. After all of Nico's hesitations on doing ANYTHING with Schmitt and continuing to act like a jackass boyfriend, the moment he decides to ask Schmitt to move in, Schmitt clams up and runs away. That relationship is just so bad. Not that I blame Schmitt for not being ready, since Nico has been treating him like shit their entire messy relationship, but his reaction is pathetic. It reminds me of how immature Schmitt really is. 

Winston randomly now being employed at the hospital? Weird. Winston saying that there's a conflict of interest when he doesn't even know Meredith? Even weirder. Who gives a shit if he's engaged to her sister? He still hasn't had a real conversation with Meredith so it's not like he'd freeze up during any surgery with her on the table. He doesn't know who she is!

Amelia/Link's plot was the only interesting one to me, followed by the MerDer beach scenes. I still am convinced that they filmed a scene for the series finale, whenever that may be, because they're making it quite clear Meredith's endgame is her dead husband. 

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Farewell, Derek! It was nice seeing you again!

I don't know if I just wasn't in the mood for GA last night or what, but I found this episode really tedious to get through. I ended up stopping halfway through and watching a 20 minute video of something else before coming back to try to finish because I was so bored.

But I guess yay, Meredith is finally awake? I know I should be happy about that, but realistically I know that means the end of all the old cast members coming back to give me a weekly dose of nostalgia for this show (is it weird to be nostalgic about this show when it's still airing?).

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2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Oh yeah, no one cares here.  Meredith reported to Derek for awhile while she was pursuing neuro before general surgery.  Ben reported to Bailey... and I'm sure there are plenty others that I can't remember.  

But those romantic relationships developed when the working relationship already existed, no? It's still icky and would have been a problem in the real world, but not as bad as hiring someone's significant other to report to them.

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9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Not only employed at the hospital, but since he seems to be in cardio, also reporting to his fiancee. I work in an industry where the stakes are much lower, and superior-subordinate relationships are an absolute no-no. But apparently neither Maggie nor Bailey see anything wrong with that.

Yeah, this is so like Grey's.  They probably didn't even check his credentials, they just took Maggie's recommendation and said "Ooooh, Maggie's boyfriend!  Welcome aboard, Winston!"  🙄

This show.

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16 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

But those romantic relationships developed when the working relationship already existed, no? It's still icky and would have been a problem in the real world, but not as bad as hiring someone's significant other to report to them.

Maybe, but not entirely.  Meredith was an intern reporting to Bailey when her relationship with Derek started, so by the time she declared neuro, their relationship was already established.  I guess she sort of already reported to him, but my memory is sketchy on how all that works.  Ben was an anesthesiologist first when he met Bailey, then went away to surgical residency in California and came back; she hired him back as a surgeon.  It's all various shades of "Grey" here. 😉 

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I take the beach scenes to be Meredith's hallucinations, rather than glimpses of an afterlife. So the idea that she was conflicted about "going back" to be with her kids doesn't bother me. In the end, it wasn't really Derek convincing her to wake up, it was Meredith herself.

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12 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

I was affected by his pressing his face into her hair, like he was trying to smell her.

I felt like this was a callback to their elevator scenes when he would stand behind her like that and to when after the bomb episode, he told her that her shampoo smelled like lavender.  

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I wish Derek had pointed out that he wouldn't have turned out fine if it hadn't been for his mother.

Yes, all of this.  Their children would be orphaned, which did not happen to Derek...and we can all debate whether he turned out fine.

One coincidence pointed out on Twitter last night is that Shonda killed off Derek on April 23, 2015, and essentially killed him off again almost 6 years to the date later.

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9 hours ago, Anela said:

I haven’t watched it yet, but she must have forgotten about everything that Amelia has been through, after she also witnessed her father being murdered.  Meredith didn’t even seem to want Derek around much, in that final season, until just before they killed him off. 

Wasn't that right after Derek was consulting with the President about something and was gone for awhile?
(An aside: during that story line, Scandal was still on the air, and I was totally hoping that Grey's and Scandal were in the same universe and there might even be a scene with Derek and a cameo with Tony Goldwyn  as President Fitzgerald Grant. Alas, it was not to be, and my hopes were dashed by a later line when Meredith and Derek were arguing about his absence and she said something to the effect of "...while you were hanging out with Obama!"  Oh well.  Interestingly, Tony Goldwyn directed an episode of Grey's, don't recall if it was after that arc or not.)

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38 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Maybe, but not entirely.  Meredith was an intern reporting to Bailey when her relationship with Derek started, so by the time she declared neuro, their relationship was already established.  I guess she sort of already reported to him, but my memory is sketchy on how all that works.  Ben was an anesthesiologist first when he met Bailey, then went away to surgical residency in California and came back; she hired him back as a surgeon.  It's all various shades of "Grey" here. 😉 

It was all kind of fuzzed together. They'd already had sex by the time they realised who each other was at the hospital but Derek made no effort to distance himself professionally from Mer (quite the opposite) and encouraged her interest in Neuro from the start. He had a lot of sway over her career and could basically request her or anyone to work with him. There was a lot of Bailey/Izzie being angry because Meredith was dating "all of our boss" and Bailey couldn't exactly forbid it. It got messy and that's before Addie showed up. But they also mentioned a lot that it was considered a bad thing and Meredith would be basically blacklisted and maybe unofficially forced to quit. Which hahahahaha.

I've been rewatching from the beginning in lockdown. And like the popped glove that was such a big deal at the time, this was a huge deal before basically becoming "wait you aren't in an intern/resident/attending relationship?"

Everyone saw Marlowe grope Cristina and no one had a problem that he was about to be her boss. 

Owen recruited Teddy to be a present for his girlfriend whilst knowing they had a complicated history. 

In the real world Winston was right in Grey's Universe it's not even a tiny blip on the radar. 

40 minutes ago, NoReally said:

I take the beach scenes to be Meredith's hallucinations, rather than glimpses of an afterlife. So the idea that she was conflicted about "going back" to be with her kids doesn't bother me. In the end, it wasn't really Derek convincing her to wake up, it was Meredith herself.

I think it's a bit like "Mergatory" in S3 or Dumbledore in Harry Potter "of course it's happening in your head Harry, but why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?!" 

She's had too many happy reunions with loved ones, seen that everyone is okay and checking in on the families they've left behind, been assured Mark/Lexie are together forever (which is what Shonda always said) been assured that Derek will be waiting for her when the time comes etc for it to be just hallucinations in TV melodrama terms. Just like she met her mother in S3 and knew she was dead when she woke up and Izzie/Denny had a *moment* that was "real". (Harbinger of Ghost Sex). 

But this is obviously an area where YMMV a lot and everyone's personal interpretation works. I can get behind her subconscious using Derek forcing her as a way to force herself to wake up and fight but also it's been 12 episodes of this and I want some of it to have been "real" after all that. 

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I've mentioned numerous times how much I don't like Teddy but I have to give credit to Kim Raver. She's doing a really good job showing how Teddy is barely keeping it together. As annoying as I find her, I like how she isn't just magically all better.

3 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Generally an ok episode. I did like Meredith saying "We love you" to Zola. The use of "we" was nice. 

That was sweet.

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This season is really boring. 
 

First, I don’t know what’s going on with Ellen Pompeo but she must’ve told the show something for them to put her on the beach for eight episodes.  Maybe she told them she didn’t want to do scenes with other actors other than one person because of Covid.

That scene with her and Derek, it did seem like he was convincing her to come back for the children so if that wasn’t the case then it should’ve been written better.  But that’s 100% how it came across.

I know the scene with Linc and Amelia was supposed to be sweet but it just annoyed me.  Linc needs to get an office for work calls.  That’s a huge boundary issue.
 

I was glad Bailey initially told Jo no.  The truth is there a lot of places are cutting back during Covid lacking resources, lacking doctors that doesn’t seem like the best time to pitch changing specialties. It’s nice to see some realism on the show once in a while.

 

This show just isn’t fun anymore.  What happened to the romantic intrigue really there isn’t anymore.  Meredith’s love interest is dead, Amelia is settled, Maggie is settled, and Teddy and Owen basically made up in one week. 
 

Also I feel like they think we’re attached a certain characters we are  just not attached to.  I stood by last week’s  episode topic even though I barely know Winston.  There are other black actors on the show that I’m actually attached to why wouldn’t they put the person in that scene.  Then the whole Teddy episode I’m not invested in Teddy either. 
 

So yeah lot of love bad writing in my opinion

 

Edited by dmc
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I liked most of this episode. If it wasn’t apparent to me before since I was never a MerDer shipper, it certainly is now that Ellen Pompeo has a wonderful chemistry with Patrick Dempsey. I just rewatched the “wedding” sequence, and as Meredith leans into Derek, she says “I don’t want to leave the kids”. Derek responds “I don’t want you to leave the kids.”  So I never viewed Meredith’s decision to not die as a choice dictated by Derek. (Even though there were many incidents in their real life relationship where Derek put the “dict” in dictatorial.) I thought these scenes were a sweet culmination of the beach reverie, and also  insinuating that Meredith’s widowed dating life pales next to her relationship with Derek. 
 

That Koracick “God’s whiskey glass” monologue was really dark - even for the Koracick character. In any event, I was happy for the outcome of Amelia’s surgery on Linc’s patient. I haven’t enjoyed a Grey’s pairing in years as much as I do Amelia & Linc. 

Kudos to Owen for stopping Teddy’s kiss. I really expected it to go the other way. 

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The Zola scenes made me tear up. I've always like the Maggie/Zola relationship better than Meredith's relationship with Zola. 

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15 hours ago, funnygirl said:

The Meredith and Derek moments tonight, and throughout the season, were really lovely. Seeing the beloved faces of Derek, George, Lexie, and Mark was such a treat and - in my opinion - wonderfully done. For them, I will miss the beach. 

 

The beach scenes have been my favorite part of this entire season.  I can see that I'm in the minority here.

One nit-picky thing . . . Derek called his sister Amelia instead of Amy. That bounced me out of the mood for a moment because I knew the writers had to do this for viewers not entirely familiar with seasons that far back.

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12 hours ago, Anela said:

I haven’t watched it yet, but she must have forgotten about everything that Amelia has been through, after she also witnessed her father being murdered. 

Meredith handwaved it, saying 'Amelia's doing find now." Yes Meredith, the recovering addict and total neurotic is doing fine now, thanks to the pure luck in finding Linc.

Earlier Derek said that as he was in the hospital after the accident, he was aware that his doctors were bungling his treatment. It always bugs me that Meredith didn't call Amelia when she saw what condition Derek was in. Not only Amelia have the right to be there because she's his sister, she is an amazing neurosurgeon, as Koracick said in this episode, and maybe she could have saved Derek. The blame for hangs on Meredith.

Meredith saying "I'm so tired" over and over really bugged me. I buy that she's tired being a full time surgeon and the mother of three. But it's not like she doesn't have options. Derek must have had enough life insurance, and even if he didn't Meredith's salary and awards would let her take a dozen years off or even retire permanently at this point. She's not a single mother forded to keep working three minimum wage jobs trying to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads.

Which brings me to Bailey telling her patient that "women, Black women" have been brought up to believe that they are responsible for for making sure that everything is okay. I know that this show seeks to redress the bias on other shows. But that's also true of white women, and I'm pretty sure that Asian women will sign on as well.

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3 hours ago, marceline said:

I've mentioned numerous times how much I don't like Teddy but I have to give credit to Kim Raver. She's doing a really good job showing how Teddy is barely keeping it together. As annoying as I find her, I like how she isn't just magically all better.

I block out as much of Teddy's story lines as I possibly can, so would you please remind me what she is recovering from and why she is barely keeping it together?  I honestly don't remember her going through anything except getting caught cheating on Owen and him canceling their wedding. 

2 hours ago, dmc said:

That scene with her and Derek, it did seem like he was convincing her to come back for the children so if that wasn’t the case then it should’ve been written better.  But that’s 100% how it came across.

That's how it came across to me, too.  However, I know that beach exists only in Meredith's unconscious, and ghost Derek doesn't actually exist, so he is just a figment of Meredith's COVID brain.  So, since she made him up in her head, she was the one writing the dialogue for both of them.   Which means she told herself that she needs and wants to survive to be there for her kids. 

Edited by izabella
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After the very beginning of the show where Bailey had Meredith jump through hoops for an episode relationships with coworkers wasn't an issue (that I can recall) until Alex & Jo. It's been forever but I recall them faking a breakup and having to sign forms with HR. It never mattered for anyone else. At this point in the show it's happened so much that it's barely a blip for me. 

When Meredith was in between life & death in S3 she returned remembering. She told people she spoke to Denny. She knew her mother was dead. IIRC, there was a talk with Denny where she even learned things about people she didn't know. IMO, it was portrayed as a near death experience. Because of that I took this to be the same. In both she chatted with various dead people then returned after talking to them. 

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Derek called his sister Amelia instead of Amy.

Yes, I noticed that too. I found the conversation about Amelia annoying. Meredith saying kids get stronger after struggling when losing a parent and Derek saying "or they're Amelia" and they both laugh. Glad they got a chuckle from a 5 year old watching her father die then having addiction issues later in life. At least Meredith did say she's doing better now. Good thing seeing how Amelia has been one of the people who has been helping care for her kids for years now.

The scenes with Zola were very good, the best of the episode for me.

I enjoyed seeing the departed characters but I'm glad the beach is (hopefully) done. I hope they do a bit of a time jump to move the vaccinated COVID world. I appreciate they wanted to show the struggles but the show is a pit of depression most of the time. Other shows have shown the impact of COVID but moved to other stories instead of drowning in it week after week.

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1 hour ago, izabella said:

I block out as much of Teddy's story lines as I possibly can, so would you please remind me what she is recovering from and why she is barely keeping it together?  I honestly don't remember her going through anything except getting caught cheating on Owen and him canceling their wedding. 

That's how it came across to me, too.  However, I know that beach exists only in Meredith's unconscious, and ghost Derek doesn't actually exist, so he is just a figment of Meredith's COVID brain.  So, since she made him up in her head, she was the one writing the dialogue for both of them.   Which means she told herself that she needs and wants to survive to be there for her kids. 

LOL I thought she was in heaven and Derek was a ghost or angel and was really talking to her LOL. And you know what scene it paralleled for me.  The EARLY scene where she falls in the water and doesn't try to swim...she almost drowns and her and Derek have a similar conversation about fighting to live.  

 

 

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I see the beach scenes as all the other characters being Meredith's conscience. It is her inner mind telling her what she needs to be doing and her fighting it.  She internally sees that in the afterlife, she will be at peace and with Derek and George and Lexie and Mark, with no pain, no longer feeling tired, etc.  But the characters are also internally telling her that she needs to be there for her kids and her family.  The beach is the fight in her head over whether she should pass on or stay in the now.

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11 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

My husband was in the  hospital and not going to recover. Not from Covid but from alcoholism related issues.  He was unconscious and awaiting transfer to hospice care.  I told him it was OK for him to let go.  He died two hours after I left the hospital.  

As mentioned by another poster I blame the writing for it appearing like Meredith wanted to stay with Derek and abandon her children.  Do I think Meredith is the best mother? No. Do I think she would willingly leave her children? No.

I'm watching it now, and Meredith told Derek, "I don't want to leave the kids." He responded, "I don't want you to leave the kids." So it wasn't Derek telling her to stay. She made the choice for her children.

I liked the scene with Maggie and Zola. 

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Linc is refreshing, after seeing all of the fighting over surgeries in the past. Amelia did overstep, but he also saw that she was nervous, and told her that she could do it. He didn't treat her like crap (Alex and Izzie), for weeks or months. 

Zola's "mommy!" started off some tears for me. and "we love you" was sweet. 

 

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5 hours ago, windsprints said:

Yes, I noticed that too. I found the conversation about Amelia annoying. Meredith saying kids get stronger after struggling when losing a parent and Derek saying "or they're Amelia" and they both laugh. Glad they got a chuckle from a 5 year old watching her father die then having addiction issues later in life. At least Meredith did say she's doing better now. Good thing seeing how Amelia has been one of the people who has been helping care for her kids for years now.

I thought the beach conversation about Amelia was rude. Amelia was admittedly a mess when she was younger and I'm sure a lot of that can be traced back to her father's death and how her sisters treated her and saw her always as the fuck-up of the family, but she's worked hard and she has a steady life these days with a child and a man that loves her and cares about her. Meredith (and Derek, in that conversation, considering he has been supposedly checking in on everyone) sounded judgmental of the woman that has done more onscreen to raise Meredith's children than Meredith has, along with Maggie. 

I don't know exactly why it bothered me so much, but it bothered me that Teddy was part of the scene when they were all crowded outside the room when Zola was in Meredith's room talking to her. Those people were there to support Zola while she was visiting her mother. There was Aunt Maggie, Aunt Amelia, (Grandpa) Richard, and Bailey, the four current people that are closest to Meredith and that Zola herself has relationships with. (No doubt if things were different Uncle Alex and Aunt Cristina would have been there, too.) Teddy was woefully out of place and has no relationship with Zola.

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23 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Catherine Fox would have something to say about her granddaughter moving that far away, I think.  I also never got the sense that Matthew would want to leave Seattle since I think they showed that his family was all there too.  But, anything is possible.

If he did go to Montana and back, maybe he goes to see her because she is one who was with him in Montana before?  That sounds reasonable.

While Catherine is in Seattle a bunch, and might be sheltering in place there, doesn't she live in Boston? Harriet is still young. But, Jackson to boarding school. So, once upon a time Catherine was quite okay with her child living away from both of his parents.

Catherine yelled that Jackson was just like his father. Does Jackson's absent father live eleven hours away in Montana? 

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2 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I thought the beach conversation about Amelia was rude. Amelia was admittedly a mess when she was younger and I'm sure a lot of that can be traced back to her father's death and how her sisters treated her and saw her always as the fuck-up of the family, but she's worked hard and she has a steady life these days with a child and a man that loves her and cares about her. Meredith (and Derek, in that conversation, considering he has been supposedly checking in on everyone) sounded judgmental of the woman that has done more onscreen to raise Meredith's children than Meredith has, along with Maggie. 

I don't know exactly why it bothered me so much, but it bothered me that Teddy was part of the scene when they were all crowded outside the room when Zola was in Meredith's room talking to her. Those people were there to support Zola while she was visiting her mother. There was Aunt Maggie, Aunt Amelia, (Grandpa) Richard, and Bailey, the four current people that are closest to Meredith and that Zola herself has relationships with. (No doubt if things were different Uncle Alex and Aunt Cristina would have been there, too.) Teddy was woefully out of place and has no relationship with Zola.

I thought it was rude, too. I also didn't like her sisters (minus Neve Campbell), and loved Linc supporting her against them all.

 

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1 hour ago, Rae Spellman said:

Catherine yelled that Jackson was just like his father. Does Jackson's absent father live eleven hours away in Montana? 

He does.  Or at lest he did a few years ago when Jackson and April saw him there.

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