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javajunkie86

Nitpicking

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Someone please help me- what WAS said about Lane's dad in S 1???

I don't remember if anything specific was said, so much as he was just mentioned as though he existed.

 

Actually in Sadie, Sadie Lane refers to both her mother and her father saying, "My mother and father" and how "they" went into "their" room whispering.  This is when Lane thinks they are sending her to South Korea for good.  Lane's father is never actually eliminated precisely, Lane will still refer to her parents on occasion after that, but I think that's the only time Lane refers to her parents as separate entities and references their room.  

 

It never really seems like Mrs. Kim is a single parent either, Mr. Kim is just never seen.  I think it's kind of a gag that this incredibly domineering mother so eclipses her husband, it's as if he doesn't actually exist and is rendered invisible by the force of her personality.  Or he's forever lost in the pile of antiques. 

Edited by stillshimpy
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I alway took it as her dad was still in Korea. Maybe I misremembering that episode, but I thought Lane just said her parents want to send her to Korea which could have been them dicussing on the phone. But either way it's weird that he wasn't even at her wedding.

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No, I just watched it, so it is very fresh in my mind and I'd read the question prior to watching the episode, so I'm positive. She says "my mother and father" and "they were whispering in their room" and then again she refers to her parents when they give her the giant suitcase  So her dad is definitely supposed to be present.  

 

I was paying extra attention specifically because I wondered too.  

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It never really seems like Mrs. Kim is a single parent either, Mr. Kim is just never seen.  I think it's kind of a gag that this incredibly domineering mother so eclipses her husband, it's as if he doesn't actually exist and is rendered invisible by the force of her personality.  Or he's forever lost in the pile of antiques.

 

 

This is the explanation that works best for me too....EXCEPT....they never should have shown Lane actually walking down the aisle without a father there to give her away.  That's the thing that (IMO) takes it from 'oh, funny, we've never even seen her dad!' to 'well that's strange, why is her dad not here?!?'

 

Even if they'd just had one of the random Korean men we see singing hymns at the Kim house silently giving her away, that would have been better.

 

Or, heck, even Asian Ceasar.  Now that would have cracked me up.

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That's the thing that (IMO) takes it from 'oh, funny, we've never even seen her dad!' to 'well that's strange, why is her dad not here?!?'

 

Fully agreed, it went from a fun in-show-gag to "uh...so is Lane's father supposed to have left, or ...died...without it meriting so much as a mention? 'cause that's not funny!"  even if it was a case of "no, he's off on mission, converting people to tofu!" then a mention would have been in order for the wedding.  

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This is such a small nitpick, but I'm watching the Yale-Harvard game episode and I'm wondering why Emily didn't have an extra Yale sweatshirt stashed in that giant bus for Lorelai, considering we've been told repeatedly that she likes to be overly prepared for things.  Not to mention, why the rush to get to the restroom before the lines got too long, since a vehicle that size would have a restroom.

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I know that there were a lot of useless scenes over the years but one that always makes me nuts is the installation of the stupid traffic light.  What a waste of time and there isn't even a hint of why Taylor was so obsessed with it. Apparently the only point was to get everyone together in the street so Luke could rant about marriage.  Not that he couldn't have done that in the diner.

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This is wild speculating, but i kinda think the powers that be forgot that Mr Kim had been referenced earlier in the show. It's like he never existed at all.

OR MAYBE THE SOMETIMES SEEN SILENT DINER ASIAN MAN IS MR KIM AFTERALL

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The two Caesars really messed with my head.  Did they alternate in the role, or did the larger one just replace the Asian one at one point?

 

And again - why did Kathy Bates become Mia?

 

Did we ever get closure on Brian and Lane's Korean replacement's relationship?

Edited by DisneyBoy

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The two Caesars really messed with my head.  Did they alternate in the role, or did the larger one just replace the Asian one at one point?

 

Asian Ceasar was still around even when real Ceasar existed. He lasted to the season finale.

 

Edit: I meant series finale.

Edited by maculae

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Asian Caesar was around till the end. I don't think he had a name. He just was another of Luke's employees. He did have a couple lines in Bon Yoyage

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Just watched 1.16, Star Crossed Lovers. 

Dean makes a big deal about the three month anniversary, but by my reckoning, this episode takes place in spring. 

Dean claims the anniversary is 3 months after Rory's birthday, which would make January. 

He further claims that her birthday was on a Saturday, but he wants to celebrate on a Friday because he works on Saturday. 

Huh? Did Rory never tell him that her actual birthday was the day prior to Dean giving her the bracelet? I don't know if I'd want a boyfriend whose math was that bad. LOL.

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I thought the daisy plants worked, if only because it was meant as a grand romantic gesture for a proposal, and was what Lorelai had suggested she wanted. 

 

To me, making what looked thousands of tarts was just wasteful.  Though, it was a kind of callback to that earlier episode where Sookie must have wasted quite a bit of money on all that inappropriate food she made for that kid's birthday party she and Lorelai catered.  And that doesn't even get into the money they had to spend to buy the more kid-appropriate food at the last minute.  It all combines to give you a good idea of what a lousy business partner Sookie could be at times. 

 

The Hobbit birthday party cooking fiasco always bothered me. Sookie prepares gravlax, a giant brie, some outrageous cake, fancy macaroni, and presumably some other extravagant but misguided attempts to feed children. Yes, Sookie is a kooky, but talented cook. But, I have never heard of anyone hiring a catering company, without pre-approving the menu, which is what the cost is based on. 

 

I want to say Michel makes a comment very early in the show about wanting to look good for the ladies, but he essentially becomes an asexual character at some point.  Maybe the network or perhaps the writers themselves figured it would be easier if the issue was never dealt with.   

 

In Star Crossed Lovers, Lorelai overhears Michel on the phone saying, speaking affectionately to someone he refers to as "cherie." 

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The menu seemingly had been selected by the client. Sookie and Lorelai then  discussed the  food - mac'n'cheese, mini pizzas, tater tots, a party themed cake , etc. -  a day or so before the party. It was Sookie herself  who decided to disregard the menu without consulting with anybody because she was "a great chef".

 

I did wonder if she was in the habit of changing meal orders while at the Independence Inn. Or were those dining room customers allowed to select what most appealed to  them - without interference from an overbearing know-it-all.

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The menu seemingly had been selected by the client. Sookie and Lorelai then  discussed the  food - mac'n'cheese, mini pizzas, tater tots, a party themed cake , etc. -  a day or so before the party. It was Sookie herself  who decided to disregard the menu without consulting with anybody because she was "a great chef".

 

I'm not certain that is how it went down.  I recall Lorelai and Sookie discussing the party, with Lorelai suggesting to Sookie which foods she prepare.  I don't recall that it was suggested the client had specifically asked for those foods.  Instead, it was Lorelai making the assumption because it was a party for children.  I could be wrong, but I don't think the issue was Sookie willfully disregarding a specific client requested menu.  That would be a much bigger deal.  Rather, it was Sookie not understanding what kind of food children would eat, and nearly wrecking the party because of that.  

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I agree, txhorns.  Sookie even told Lorelai she thought Lorelai was joking about those foods when Lorelai asked where that kind of stuff was.  Sookie wouldn't have done that if the client had specified what she wanted, I don't think.

 

I've never done a big birthday party for any of my kids that I had someone else plan and cater, but I imagine I would just be like "I'd like XYZ theme, there's going to be about 20 kids, here's the date and time."  I would leave the menu planning up to them.

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LORELAI: Okay, we've got costumes, we're got cutouts, we've got rings, ladies and gentlemen. We've got fairy necklaces, we've got tree heads. I'm picking up table decorations tomorrow. Oh, do you need me to order a Lord of the Rings cake?

SOOKIE: The cake is under control.

LORELAI: Okay, cake's off my list. So you've got the menu going, right?

SOOKIE: Yes.

LORELAI: Just festive kiddie food. You know, like, uh, bagel dogs, tater tots, mini pizzas, mac and cheese. Oh, you know what would be great? Those colored popcorn balls. Rory used to go mental over those things.

SOOKIE: Hey, how many adults are gonna be there?

LORELAI: Probably about ten.

SOOKIE: Okay.

 

This was the dialogue between Sookie and Lorelai. To my viewing and reading, It appeared that they were doing party prep  in keeping with the client had engaged them for - a Lord of the Rings themed party for grade school children. In any of my own dealings with caterers, the menu is discussed before the event. At the very least - and I would think this especially to be the case where children are concerned - allergies, other health matters,  religious food restrictions, etc. would have to be considered and the client in agreement as to what was to be offered.

 

In any event, at no point did Sookie  say she planned to focus on adult oriented food for the function rather than nibbles for the kids. Nor did it appear then that she thought  the food list was just another  joke from the ever waggish Lorelai.  As well, she didn't  tell her partner she was disregarding completely the Lord of the Rings cake for a creation of her own.

 

I too am among those who doubt they made any money from this gig - the whole purpose of the pair setting up this catering business as I recall. Not only did they end up purchasing the last minute food from Doose's, Sookie prepared four  cakes before settling on the masterpiece she brought to the party.

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Don't forget that Sookie was also costing them extra money at the Dragonfly with 2 extra kitchen staff and a distinct unwillingness to change. Remember the need to drop lunch temporarily? 

Artists are hard to work with when compromise is needed. That's one of the reasons why the "great chef" restaurants cost so much. 

And don't get me started on the cost of insurance for the kitchen at the Independence Inn. It makes me a little queasy to think of a chef with so many band-aids on her fingers. 

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it occurs to me that i actually really really dislike certain aspects of this show (the ridiculousness around representing Sookie and her bad business practices; Jackson almost always; Dean post "I Love You"; overly-manic Lorelai; Marty post freshman year; I actually could go on and on but I won't) but for some reason it all holds together really well for about 4.5 ish seasons?  Like, all the bad is perfectly balanced with good and it works? 

 

It reminds me of a simpsons episode where the mayo clinic diagnoses Mr Burns as the sickest man in the world, but all his illnesses are so perfectly balanced he's basically fine.  lol

 

edit: or perhaps nitpicks are the result of rewatching (and rewatching) any show? It's easy to have a rosy impression of a series you've seen once or twice--but whoa, by the 7th time through, the flaws stick out.

Edited by JayInChicago
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What show, story, book, or fable, is reasonably flawless? Pride and Prejudice, perhaps, or some of the Greeks? it's a rare modern story that entrances me, GG is the first since P&P in 1995, although Firefly and Big Bang Theory had their moments.

Due to a move to Germany during the early 2000s, I never knew GG as it was broadcast. It was only with Amazon Prime here in Germany that I saw it at all. I binge-watched it in June and adored it. A second viewing only made me realize how much I'd missed the first time. 

A friend introduced me to Joseph Campbell as in Power of Myth, and it became clear to me that the writers were influenced by Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces. Now I'm viewing it for pleasure, and studying it for the Hero's Journey as defined by Campbell. It only gets richer for me. 

My early nitpicks were failures of logic and continuity. Now they are about story structure and characterization. All part of the game for me, I'm enjoying it enormously. 

I will always hate the on-screen treatment of L&L's relationship (lack of PDA and Lorelai's maturity), but I accept they wrote for the teen girl key CW audience, which meant Rory and Co. got the best. Even Jane Austen wrote for a limited audience, that is, romantic novel readers. Not enough bodice-ripping, I'm sure for some.

Jay, I intended this as a response to your nitpick question, but I've clearly drifted. The first part of my answer to your question is, no, I think nitpicks are always there, and the second part of my answer is, please keep posting. I really like to read your opinions. 

You all make me think and I really enjoy that.

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In any of my own dealings with caterers, the menu is discussed before the event. At the very least - and I would think this especially to be the case where children are concerned - allergies, other health matters,  religious food restrictions, etc. would have to be considered and the client in agreement as to what was to be offered.

 

That might be entirely true for your own dealings, but there was nothing in the episode to suggest the menu was coming from the client.  As it was, it appeared that Lorelai was suggesting foods for the party, and Sookie disregarded those suggestions.  Otherwise, I think the later conversation between Sookie and Lorelai at the party would have been much different.   

 

 

Nor did it appear then that she thought  the food list was just another  joke from the ever waggish Lorelai.

 

 

LORELAI: Where is the rest of it?

SOOKIE: The rest of what?

LORELAI: The rest of the kid food.

SOOKIE: This is it.

LORELAI: Sookie!

SOOKIE: They're small! How much can they eat?

LORELAI: We talked about this. I mentioned hot dogs and pizza puffs and chips. I told you to make popcorn balls. Where the hell are the popcorn balls?

SOOKIE: You were serious about that?

 

 

Don't forget that Sookie was also costing them extra money at the Dragonfly with 2 extra kitchen staff and a distinct unwillingness to change. Remember the need to drop lunch temporarily?

 

I did think it was odd that Sookie seemed to become more immature as the series went on.   Perhaps that came from hanging around with Lorelai. 

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it occurs to me that i actually really really dislike certain aspects of this show (the ridiculousness around representing Sookie and her bad business practices; Jackson almost always; Dean post "I Love You"; overly-manic Lorelai; Marty post freshman year ; I actually could go on and on but I won't) but for some reason it all holds together really well for about 4.5 ish seasons?  Like, all the bad is perfectly balanced with good and it works? 

 

What was rediculous about Marty. If I remember correctly he was probably the most realistic character. He was a smart kid who got into Yale, but wasn't wealthy (assumally on finacial aid). He first meets Rory after being getting really drunk his freshman year (people do dumb things). And was a friend for parts of college. It is realistic that they would stop being friends and become friends again because that happens in college.

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The poor actor playing Marty must have wondered what the heck would be in the next script.  Dean went the same route - starting out as relatively well read and intelligent and then deteriorating to a working class dolt who married as a teen and then screwed that up in his pursuit of St. Rory.

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I hated what they did to Marty. He was a good fellow who worked many jobs to get by. He was sweet and goofy and he could have been a good choice for Rory.

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I was always appalled at how Rory let Logan McSmirk talk down to Marty.  She and her mom lived in a potting shed, for Pete's sake, but she sure picked up on the "But I'm a Gilmore" traits of her snooty grandparents in a big fat hurry.  

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I was always appalled at how Rory let Logan McSmirk talk down to Marty.  She and her mom lived in a potting shed, for Pete's sake, but she sure picked up on the "But I'm a Gilmore" traits of her snooty grandparents in a big fat hurry.

 

You are entirely right.  I never understood what they were trying to do with Rory in her relationship with Logan.  You would think she would have been a lot more empathetic with Marty, or at least realized that Logan and his friends weren't people she wanted to associate with. 

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What was rediculous about Marty. 

 

yeah i should have been clearer about that. i meant when Rory met those art girls (so and so and Olivia) and he turned out to be So and so's boyfriend (or possibly Olivia's?--and kept getting referred to as "Boyfriend") and pretended he had never met Rory. i know i could look up so and so's name, but it's funnier this way. Like late series they realized Rory would probably have girl friends who were fun (not Paris) and lived at and attended Yale (not Lane).   so maybe that clear's it up.

 

i also didn't like that they had the Marty character pining for Rory. 

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Kohola3, Rory certainly picked up those Gilmore traits quite readily. But she also quickly dropped them when it suited her and tried to go back to being the  unassuming small town girl from a modest background.

 

I remember her whining to Logan during The Great Sulk about how he had had so much handed to him - unlike herself. Uh huh. I seem to recall her mother taking out a huge loan for her to attend Chilton. And then there was that car upon graduating from high school. At least one free trip to Europe. Several months of free room and board at her grandparents' home. Etc.

 

And then there was that scene in the seventh season after the  article  she wrote mocking trust fund kids and their use of connections to get ahead. Wasn't she anxious a few seasons earlier to get to know Logan's father - the media mogul - soon after they became acquainted? When an annoyed Logan called her on the trust fund comment, she replied.

 

It's not like I live off a $5-million trust fund my parents set up for me.

 

I do wish he had responded with - no, your grandparents set up your trust fund.

 

I would not have expected anyone in their early twenties to be completely comfortable in their own skin and their financial situation as they were preparing to face the world. But to be so completely oblivious to her current  life of great privilege -after her early years in Stars Hollow - once again leads me to my own long standing nitpick  about Rory's purported mental acuity.

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A sideline nitpick: did you notice that when she wrote for Yale and for Hugo afterward, we only ever heard about articles that were mean? There was apparently a layer of darkness beneath our SH Christmas angel. LOL

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But to be so completely oblivious to her current  life of great privilege -after her early years in Stars Hollow - once again leads me to my own long standing nitpick  about Rory's purported mental acuity.

 

I think it is more like denial, which is a very powerful thing and pretty darn common amongst many people.  It has little to do with mental acuity.  For example, in my life, I've seen very intelligent people who, when dealing with a loved one who is clearly dying, will deny what is happening.  They will then treat the whole situation as though it is not happening.  They will act as though their loved one, who is very elderly and has multiple deteriorating conditions, will soon return home and be fine.   Rory had, in some ways, become a lot like the people she wrote about, but I doubt she would ever want to admit to herself she had become like those people.  Heck, look at the way her mother reacts when she has to deal with people from "that world."  I doubt Rory would want to think she was included amongst that bunch.

 

 

My take on Marty in season seven was they were trying to tie up loose ends by making Marty undesirable.

 

That does seem plausible, but I guess I would ask why it was needed at that point.  I think Marty had not appeared for two seasons when he was reintroduced. 

Edited by txhorns79

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Remember when Rory was desperate following around that guy(I forgot his name) to get a job at the Stanford Eagle Gazette? I found it strange how she never mention it again after that episode. What happened?

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Remember when Rory was desperate following around that guy(I forgot his name) to get a job at the Stanford Eagle Gazette? I found it strange how she never mention it again after that episode. What happened?

That's true as was the place she did get a job at (or was that the same place?)

 

I wish they had followed up on the life and death bargade stuff. Like did Rory become a member or not? I guess it assumed that she did since she hung out with them for years.

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I don't mind Sookie in the party episode--to me it's pretty clear that it wasn't really about the party itself, but actually about Sookie's pregnancy fears. 

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But Not as Cute as Pushkin nitpick: Are we really to believe that the only two people in SH who Luke is particularly close to, Lorelai and Rory, are also the ONLY two people not to know all about Luke's annual 'dark day'?! Please. Plus, as long as I'm nitpicking, the very concept of a designated dark day seems uncharacteristically melodramatic for Luke. And don't get me started on him screaming at the elderly woman who's about to enter a nursing home. Ugh. 

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But Not as Cute as Pushkin nitpick: Are we really to believe that the only two people in SH who Luke is particularly close to, Lorelai and Rory, are also the ONLY two people not to know all about Luke's annual 'dark day'?! Please. Plus, as long as I'm nitpicking, the very concept of a designated dark day seems uncharacteristically melodramatic for Luke. And don't get me started on him screaming at the elderly woman who's about to enter a nursing home. Ugh. 

I also don't buy that the townspeople would notice that Luke was gone the same day every year.  Like "Oh, it's October 14th.  Wasn't Luke gone October 14th last year too" enough times to notice a pattern and determine it was his dark day.  And, if they were paying close enough attention to notice a pattern, you would think they would also remember that it was the day his father died.

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I also don't buy that the townspeople would notice that Luke was gone the same day every year.  Like "Oh, it's October 14th.  Wasn't Luke gone October 14th last year too" enough times to notice a pattern and determine it was his dark day.  And, if they were paying close enough attention to notice a pattern, you would think they would also remember that it was the day his father died.

 

Heh----it's so true! But you know who never noticed that the diner is closed on that day? The two people who virtually live there and eat 1-2 meals per day there, Lorelai and Rory :) 

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At the bottom of this message is the interchange between Rory and Lorelai. 

My guess is, Lorelai is too self-involved to put two and two together about someone else, and Rory can produce the data if need be. 

Why it never occurred to them to think about it over the years is anybody's guess. 

Honestly, though, when I think back to all the episodes in which it seemed like Luke had something on his mind, but Lorelai missed it, it wouldn't surprise me if he had tried to tell her, but she was not paying attention. Remember? Luke would wrap his arms around himself and rock a little? Lorelai almost never noticed that. And Rory would be too young to confide in.

 

LORELAI: Question. Have you ever heard anything about Luke's dark day?
RORY: His what?
LORELAI: Well, one day a year he apparently has a dark day. No one knows where he goes or what he does. He just
disappears.
RORY: I've heard nothing about this.
LORELAI: Ok, well, did we see him on November 30th last year?
RORY: How am I supposed to know?
LORELAI: Because, you keep all those crazy, anal, Bob Graham kind of notebooks.
8:00 a.m. - Got up. 8:15 - Brushed teeth. 8:25 - Had impure thoughts. 8:36 - Sent dwarves off to work.
RORY: I do not have my diaries from last November on me, at the moment.
LORELAI: But you do have them?
RORY: Yes.
LORELAI: And they will contain where we ate breakfast that morning?
RORY: [embarrassed] Yes.
LORELAI: I love my little circus freak.

Edited by junienmomo

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Honestly, though, when I think back to all the episodes in which it seemed like Luke had something on his mind, but Lorelai missed it, it wouldn't surprise me if he had tried to tell her, but she was not paying attention.

 

Eh, Luke's not so good at open and mature communication [/understatement], so I'd be surprised if he'd ever tried to tell her. And when he did eventually tell Lorelai about it in Pushkin, primarily because she witnessed him browbeating an innocent elderly woman who had to enter a nursing home, he never indicated that this was something he'd already tried to speak to her about. As for Lorelai not noticing when he seemed in a bad mood...well, to be fair, joyless, surly Luke was pretty much ALWAYS in a bad mood. I don't think it's a sign of Lorelai's self-involvement (though I certainly won't deny that she can be self-involved!), if she failed to notice that on certain days he seemed even more bitter and angry than usual.  

Edited by amensisterfriend
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As for Lorelai not noticing when he seemed in a bad mood...well, to be fair, joyless, surly Luke was pretty much ALWAYS in a bad mood.

(amensisterfriend)

 

LOL, I'm too much of a Luke fan to take that sitting down. 

I'm going to open a new thread and post examples of happy Luke, just to show you his wonderfullyness.

There are a lot more happy Lukes than there are pleasant Jess', I'd wager. Episode for episode, of course. :)

Maybe a better thread is Happy Luke/Pleasant Jess Throwdown?

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Given their respective life experiences, I would certainly expect there to be more Happy Lukes than Pleasant Jess' !

I have often made clear my dislike of Jess, but I always felt sorry for the little twerp.

Beyond his friendship and later romance with Rory, there wasn't much in his life during his time in Stars Hollow to bring him  contentment. He wasn't used to small town life, disliked school, wasn't an athlete, apparently had no male friends, had been abandoned by his father and then dumped by his mother.

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Given their respective life experiences, I would certainly expect there to be more Happy Lukes than Pleasant Jess' !

I have often made clear my dislike of Jess, but I always felt sorry for the little twerp.
Beyond his friendship and later romance with Rory, there wasn't much in his life during his time in Stars Hollow to bring him  contentment. He wasn't used to small town life, disliked school, wasn't an athlete, apparently had no male friends, had been abandoned by his father and then dumped by his mother.

 

Hee! Dusty, I just wrote something extremely similar in the UO thread...only you said it far more wittily and eloquently, as per usual :) 

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Aw shucks, asf, thanks!

 

I wouldn't have expected the townies to necessarily connect Luke's Dark Day with the death of his father. Luke's absence probably wasn't noticed for at least a few years after the senior Mr. Danes' passing. Also, in the normal course of events,  I am not sure that people tend to remember dates of death unless the individual was quite close to them.

And not to be unkind or judgemental, dark days over several  years do  seem to be an unusual if not over the top response to the demise of an older person, a parent who had been in ill health for some time - especially for one of Luke's general disposition. I could see why the townies would not make the linkage.

Edited by dustylil

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edit: or perhaps nitpicks are the result of rewatching (and rewatching) any show? It's easy to have a rosy impression of a series you've seen once or twice--but whoa, by the 7th time through, the flaws stick out.

 

Yes, this has happened to me, as I've started to watch it again. I need to watch it occasionally, because it cheers me up, but I'm finding that it's too soon for me to start over again, because parts of it are irritating me. When I was first watching the show, almost three years ago, I looked up the boards elsewhere, and couldn't relate to what some were saying about Christopher, Lorelai, etc.

 

I had the same thing happen with LOST, and a couple of other shows: I started to watch from the beginning, no week in between episodes, no advertisements, and certain characters were suddenly grating on me.

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How is it that Lorelai knew Luke's clothing sizes including the length of his pant legs?  When she went shopping and got a hundred gazillion percent off on bags and bags of clothes for him, everything was a perfect fit.

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And, how did Lane afford all of the those CDs and the other paraphernalia of her secret life? The first we hear of her having a paid job is when she gets hired at Luke's, and Mama Kim only allows that because the diner can be seen from their house!

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