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javajunkie86

Nitpicking

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2 hours ago, dustylil said:

She had an emergency fund for substantive emergencies. It was called Richard and Emily.

LOL all the more reason to shudder. 

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1 hour ago, clack said:

But the Inn has a restaurant, and Lorelai's best friend is the chef!  Why are Lorelai and Rory eating out at all? Lorelai runs the place for an absentee owner, why isn't she eating free at the Inn?

 When she was running the place she had a higher income. The time she needed the food was when she was just a maid and working her way up in the company.  I suspect that during the potting shed years, Sookie was also working her way up and wasn't head chef at the time. 

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Most restaurant managers do get one free meal per shift. And restaurant workers (waiters, etc) commonly get either a free meal, or a 50% discount. Lorelai can't get a free coffee and a Sookie-made pastry for breakfast at the inn, rather than waking up an hour earlier to pay for breakfast at Luke's?

Which leads me to another nitpick. What days, and what hours does Lorelai work? Does she work Mon-Fri? 9 to 5? Doesn't running an inn demand a more than 40-hour workweek? If there is just Lorelai and a night manager, wouldn't Lorelai be working 6 days a week, 12 hour per day?

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We know Sookie usually worked 6 days a week at the Independence Inn. It was my understanding that Lorelai had a six day work week as well. Although I doubt either of them worked 12 hours a day on a regular basis. It doesn't  seem practical. Or particularly fitting for a feel good, fairy-tale-ish  television show!  If I recall correctly, we saw other administrative personnel at the Inn in addition to  Lorelai and the night manager. And there were also a number of  staff in Sookie's kitchen. Presumably they had roles beyond first aid.

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2 hours ago, clack said:

Lorelai can't get a free coffee and a Sookie-made pastry for breakfast at the inn, rather than waking up an hour earlier to pay for breakfast at Luke's?

Lorelai has gotten free coffee at the inn.  But it seems like Lorelai wants to eat breakfast with Rory, and it's a bit unethical to bring Rory over for a free breakfast every morning.

And Sookie clearly has no issues making breakfast for inn employees (she made those pancakes for Michael(?) but put too many blueberries or chocolate chips and was willing to make an omelette for him). It's just a "don't abuse the system" type thing in terms of hot meals.

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40 minutes ago, solotrek said:

But it seems like Lorelai wants to eat breakfast with Rory, and it's a bit unethical to bring Rory over for a free breakfast every morning.

That would be tacky. Now I've certainly heard of bringing your kids to work, but bringing your kids to work for breakfast  seems a bit much :)

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And Sookie clearly has no issues making breakfast for inn employees (she made those pancakes for Michael(?) but put too many blueberries or chocolate chips and was willing to make an omelette for him). It's just a "don't abuse the system" type thing in terms of hot meals.

That's probably true.  It would be kind of weird if Sookie was making Lorelai meals everyday. 

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What kid has a daily breakfast in a restaurant before heading off to school -- especially if they have to commute a fair distance to that school? A 16 year old girl wakes up as late as possible and has a quick breakfast at home, juice and cereal or a bagel, she's not going to get up an hour earlier than she needs to and then wait in a diner 30 minutes or however long it takes Luke to cook Lorelai and Rory their pancakes or bacon and eggs.

Forget the costs of eating out. The whole time management aspect of Lorelai's and Rory's daily schedule has never made sense to me. 

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I just watched an episode where Rory and Dean were eating at Luke's before school and had two bites to eat then ran off to school. What a waste of food and money. I can't see how there can't be granola bars and bagels in the house for breakfast- I've seen pop tarts on a few occasions but that was it. 

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9 minutes ago, twoods said:

I just watched an episode where Rory and Dean were eating at Luke's before school and had two bites to eat then ran off to school

Why the heck couldn't Mrs. Forrester make them a good breakfast- she was a stay-at-home Mom and had only Clara who was of grade school age cluttering up the place? Think of how differently things could have turned out if only the pair of them had had a decent meal before heading off to classes :)

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1 hour ago, clack said:

What kid has a daily breakfast in a restaurant before heading off to school -- especially if they have to commute a fair distance to that school? A 16 year old girl wakes up as late as possible and has a quick breakfast at home, juice and cereal or a bagel, she's not going to get up an hour earlier than she needs to and then wait in a diner 30 minutes or however long it takes Luke to cook Lorelai and Rory their pancakes or bacon and eggs.

Forget the costs of eating out. The whole time management aspect of Lorelai's and Rory's daily schedule has never made sense to me. 

Truth! My kids would barely eat toast in the morning. Imagine how early the girls must get up. If this were more based in reality, Rory would be spending a lot more time on her daily bus rides. I like the first season because we see a couple instances of the girls making coffee and pop tarts at home and then going on their merry way. 

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If classes start at 8:00, and Chilton is half an hour from Stars Hollow, then Rory takes the, what, 7:15 bus? Which means that Lorelai and Rory are at Luke's by 6:15 or so.

So, Rory gets up at 6? 5:45? 9 hours sleep, which means she goes to bed by 9:00? Early to bed, early to rise, that's not the Rory that we know.

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10 minutes ago, clack said:

Which means that Lorelai and Rory are at Luke's by 6:15 or so.

Which we know is not true because the one time they were there at around 6:15 (after the first Rory/Dean breakup), we got this:

Quote

LORELAI: Who are all these people?
RORY: It’s the 6:00 am crowd.
LORELAI: I officially recognize nobody in this place.

Plus, sometimes Jess, Dean, or Lane had to go to school right after one of these breakfasts or they'd be late, and Stars Hollow High probably didn't start at 7:15AM. Absolutely no sense.
 

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18 hours ago, clack said:

Which leads me to another nitpick. What days, and what hours does Lorelai work? Does she work Mon-Fri? 9 to 5? Doesn't running an inn demand a more than 40-hour workweek? If there is just Lorelai and a night manager, wouldn't Lorelai be working 6 days a week, 12 hour per day?

I got the impression that Michel was a daytime manager.  Lorelai seemed to have more a general manager type of role.  When the inn burned down, it seemed Michel and Tobin were on roughly the same level of management.  I don't think it was expressly said.  

I think running an inn is mostly a daytime 9-5ish job with availability to be "on call" as needed.  

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I got the impression that Michel was a daytime manager.  Lorelai seemed to have more a general manager type of role.  When the inn burned down, it seemed Michel and Tobin were on roughly the same level of management.  I don't think it was expressly said.  

I was thinking Michel was more of a concierge than a manager.  

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Michel was assistant manager. I don't remember if that was his position from season 1 on, or if he was promoted at some point.

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All the talk of the kitchens at the inns has reminded me of something. So often in the kitchens Sookie and her staff would be working away surrounded by the most colourful array of cakes and dessert, with maybe a luscious bowl of fruit or two in the middle. It looked like the dessert table at an extremely fancy banquet. Not a working kitchen at an inn.

Edited by AllyB
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In The Big One, Rory said her speech was on Friday. But when Richard left, there was no mention of FND and he said he would see them Friday.

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12 hours ago, clack said:

If classes start at 8:00, and Chilton is half an hour from Stars Hollow, then Rory takes the, what, 7:15 bus? Which means that Lorelai and Rory are at Luke's by 6:15 or so.

So, Rory gets up at 6? 5:45? 9 hours sleep, which means she goes to bed by 9:00? Early to bed, early to rise, that's not the Rory that we know.

Add to that if it takes 30 minutes by car, a bus ride will take longer. Realistically, Rory would have been on that bus for up to an hour. Emily's offer of a car in season one makes a lot more sense, timewise. 

 

11 hours ago, deaja said:

I got the impression that Michel was a daytime manager.  Lorelai seemed to have more a general manager type of role.  When the inn burned down, it seemed Michel and Tobin were on roughly the same level of management.  I don't think it was expressly said.  

I think running an inn is mostly a daytime 9-5ish job with availability to be "on call" as needed.  

I think Lorelai said she was the executive manager when she applied for the termite loan. She's the one running things, with the other employees answering to her. I will never understand why they kept Michel on. He's rude to customers and his boss. Then they ask him to be an investor in the new inn, it's crazy.

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It was my recollection that Lorelai and Rory didn't have a full breakfast (eggs, pancakes, sausage, etc.) on a weekday on a regular basis. Instead  they had coffee and muffins, danishes  and  suchlike at Luke's.  So they wouldn't need to be there at  quite an ungodly hour. Of course, they really didn't need to be there at all. Coffee and baked goods could be managed at home.

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

I will never understand why they kept Michel on. He's rude to customers and his boss. Then they ask him to be an investor in the new inn, it's crazy.

I thought Michel was hired by Mia. Perhaps she was fond of his French snootiness :) In his defense he did do well with some customers, including - oddly enough - children. Also, he  had formal  hotel industry training so that may have come in handy in setting up and managing  administrative systems and procedures.  And if Lorelai was nutty enough to go into - and stay in - business with Sookie, then asking Michel to be an investor didn't seem like lunacy to me.

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4 hours ago, dustylil said:

And if Lorelai was nutty enough to go into - and stay in - business with Sookie, then asking Michel to be an investor didn't seem like lunacy to me.

Taking the show at it's word that Sookie was an astounding chef, I can see anyone being willing to put up with her in business. Getting a reputation for utterly fantastic food is worth a fortune in the hospitality industry as people will stay at the inn especially for the great meals. Having a concierge who is super rude in a way that happens to amuse children, not so much. Tobin would have been a much better fit for the Dragonfly, while Michel's attitude was much better suited to the hipster hotel he was working in at the start of S4.

Edited by AllyB
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Michel was a great fit for the Independence Inn and the Dragonfly in several ways. His arrogance I attribute to both his character and to him knowing that he was good at his job and Lorelai didn't have anyone better.

I think he was working there when Lorelai moved into the administrative side, which would mean that he was hired by Mia. 

As mentioned earlier, he was educated in the industry, was thoroughly capable of handling a broad range of customers, and was very good at the technical aspects of the job, as shown by several brief interactions between him and Lorelai with computers. I extrapolate that education and skills to indicate that he was the only one with formal hotel knowledge, and Lorelai was right for the CEO type job and Michel for the operations side. Tobin struck me as far less skilled.

Michel became a profit participant, which is a perk given to team members with desired skills. His being there was needed, and he got a share of profits above and beyond his salary. Probably didn't happen at the Independence Inn. 

Michel also knew how to handle Lorelai, and she him. I love their interactions in S1, showing a balance between skills and attitude, because to be perfectly honest, we also saw Lorelai doing inappropriate things as a manager. Not as extreme as Richard called her out on, but still not really great. The probable insufficient safety inspections for the kitchen comes to mind. 

My hotel nitpick: Lorelai traded off some of the wrong items financially when creating the Dragonfly. The horses decision, for example, might have made the difference between canceling lunch or not. A decision like that should have been simple, given that Sookie's skill was well-known, with review(s) in magazines etc.

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6 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

My hotel nitpick: Lorelai traded off some of the wrong items financially when creating the Dragonfly. The horses decision, for example, might have made the difference between canceling lunch or not. A decision like that should have been simple, given that Sookie's skill was well-known, with review(s) in magazines etc.

Yeah that seems crazy. Horses would be expensive to house and care for and of limited value as an amenity to offer to guests as they only had two. There was no way those horses came close to even 'paying for themselves' nevermind being something to increase profits. In fact, if they had used the space given over to the stables to special 'treatment rooms' they could have rented them to a local masseuse/beautician/yogi/etc for set times each week. Thereby generating an income from the rent while also offering spa type treatments in order to attract more guests.

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It was my recollection that Lorelai and Rory didn't have a full breakfast (eggs, pancakes, sausage, etc.) on a weekday on a regular basis. Instead  they had coffee and muffins, danishes  and  suchlike at Luke's. 

I'm not sure if that's actually what happened.  I don't recall there being any set pattern to what they ate.  Sometimes it was something light, sometimes a bigger breakfast.  I think there were even times when they ordered a big breakfast, then seemed to immediately rush off before they got anything.

Quote

My hotel nitpick: Lorelai traded off some of the wrong items financially when creating the Dragonfly. The horses decision, for example, might have made the difference between canceling lunch or not. A decision like that should have been simple, given that Sookie's skill was well-known, with review(s) in magazines etc.

I think it's just a risk one takes when opening a new business.  You want to have interesting sounding amenities for your place, to attract people, and horses do sound like a decent investment.  Also, it may have been that the horses were a popular attraction for the Dragonfly, so it wasn't a situation where the investment was a bad one.     

With lunch, my impression was that they just weren't drawing much of a lunch crowd, so cost wise, they couldn't keep it going due to the costs for wasted food, and having staff on hand that ended up doing nothing.  So it wouldn't be a situation where they say "If only we didn't have this amenity, we could have kept lunch."     

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18 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think it's just a risk one takes when opening a new business.  You want to have interesting sounding amenities for your place, to attract people, and horses do sound like a decent investment.  Also, it may have been that the horses were a popular attraction for the Dragonfly, so it wasn't a situation where the investment was a bad one.     

With lunch, my impression was that they just weren't drawing much of a lunch crowd, so cost wise, they couldn't keep it going due to the costs for wasted food, and having staff on hand that ended up doing nothing.  So it wouldn't be a situation where they say "If only we didn't have this amenity, we could have kept lunch."     

Horses are rarely a good investment, they are a vanity feature, costing money but not really profitable. Seeing as everything cost $4000 LOL, they would have saved quite a bit of money in doing only a safety remodel of the stables so that no one could hurt themselves if they went in. Considering the remodeling cost, the staffing to care for the horses, the horses and their gear and upkeep, and insurance for riders, I think they would have saved enough money to have had a respectable advertising budget for the lunch, instead of Kirk in his hot dog suit. 

But you are right, we'll probably never know. 

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 If horses were so important to the feel of the Dragonfly, I would have thought they could have made arrangements at a local riding stable that would have been able to provide a range of rides for the inn's clientele, rather than just rely upon Cletus and Desdemona. And while the horses themselves may have provided a certain ambience, I wondered about the location of their own lodging.  Being in close proximity or downwind of the stables might well change people's opinions about the charm of  these equine amenities :)

6 hours ago, AllyB said:

Sookie was an astounding chef, I can see anyone being willing to put up with her in business. Getting a reputation for utterly fantastic food is worth a fortune in the hospitality industry as people will stay at the inn especially for the great meals

Sookie may well have been an utterly fabulous chef. But she was also supposed to be in charge of the kitchen - something she proved both unwilling and incapable of managing. She couldn't be bothered to set up and organize her kitchen, wouldn't plan ahead for contingencies, declined to  train her staff to deal with her absences, broke agreements regarding staff hiring, or refused to recognize financial realities regarding dining room meals to be served. Food services management is tricky and risky enough without a  total disregard for the realities of the field.

It is all well and good to go to want to go to the Dragonfly for its great meals. But what if the meals are unavailable because the chef hasn't trained her staff and made arrangements to prepare them while she is off on maternity leave or for some other reason? Or if a customer wants to visit again sometime later but finds the Inn out of business as a result of an inability to manage costs?

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I can't even imagine the cost for liability insurance on horses to be ridden.  I bet it is one of those really high premiums like having a trampoline or some other "break your neck if you  have a mishap" type amenity.  Silly choice.  I can't fathom Taylor allowing any road apples on his city streets.

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9 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

 I can't fathom Taylor allowing any road apples on his city streets

I don't think the Dragonfly was all that close to  downtown Stars Hollow.  I doubt road apples would be a problem.

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18 hours ago, dustylil said:

I thought Michel was hired by Mia. Perhaps she was fond of his French snootiness :) In his defense he did do well with some customers, including - oddly enough - children. Also, he  had formal  hotel industry training so that may have come in handy in setting up and managing  administrative systems and procedures.  And if Lorelai was nutty enough to go into - and stay in - business with Sookie, then asking Michel to be an investor didn't seem like lunacy to me.

Good point, dustylil. Lorelai should have realized she would have been handling all the business decisions with Sookie being the chef. It's odd that they didn't discuss their responsibilities before going into business together. Too bad Tobin couldn't have joined the fray, though I realize he was only a guest star. I love how he purposely needles Michel. 

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9 minutes ago, hippielamb said:

Too bad Tobin couldn't have joined the fray, though I realize he was only a guest star. I love how he purposely needles Michel. 

That would have resulted in too many Canadians involved in the Dragonfly :)

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An additional nitpick to Lorelai's cowgirl outfit - Rory refused to let her not go in. That puts the embarrassment all on Rory. In hindsight I can imagine Rory would have preferred a mom who was a no-show and had to later endure Emily's castigation over her non-presence. 

Ugh, the video continued through Lorelai's insult of the Headmaster's secretary. I despised that Lorelai, wondering what she would say behind other people's backs.

Double ugh. Emily just insulted Lorelai in front of Hanlon. I'm stopping the video now. 

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Lorelei's attitude at times was sometimes ridiculous. I hated how annoying her and Rory were when they were at that bed and breakfast, hiding out upstairs like they were better than everyone else. Then they snuck downstairs and ate scones that others made instead of helping out- hate! I don't know why they always had that self entitled attitude around things they weren't fond of, then turned down their noses at Emily who did the same. 

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25 minutes ago, twoods said:

Lorelei's attitude at times was sometimes ridiculous. I hated how annoying her and Rory were when they were at that bed and breakfast, hiding out upstairs like they were better than everyone else. Then they snuck downstairs and ate scones that others made instead of helping out- hate! I don't know why they always had that self entitled attitude around things they weren't fond of, then turned down their noses at Emily who did the same. 

It was actually really odd to me, the guests at the B&B were no "weirder" or over the top than the guests whohad stayed at the Dragonfly/Independence Inns or the actual townies at Stars Hollow. It seemed like an extreme reaction by someone who manages and runs (and later owns) an inn. And I'd think the ability to have casual conversations with strangers of all types would be something good for someone who wants to be a foreign correspondent/journalist.  It'd be like a surgeon seeing someone cut themselves accidentally and going "ew, blood" and running away.

Edited by solotrek
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It was actually really odd to me, the guests at the B&B were no "weirder" or over the top than the guests who had stayed at the Dragonfly/Independence Inns or the actual townies at Stars Hollow.

I'll preface this by saying that I also sometimes hate having to make small talk with strangers.  However, I agree that Lorelai and Rory's attitude was bizarre.  It wasn't like the other B&B'ers ran over and started dry humping Rory and Lorelai the moment they came downstairs.   The woman who Rory ended up speaking to was perfectly nice. 

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5 hours ago, junienmomo said:

An additional nitpick to Lorelai's cowgirl outfit - Rory refused to let her not go in. That puts the embarrassment all on Rory. In hindsight I can imagine Rory would have preferred a mom who was a no-show and had to later endure Emily's castigation over her non-presence. 

The stupidest part of that scene was that if somehow all Lorelai had in her wardrobe were those shorts, the sweatpants she had slept in would have been a better option.

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"Whose face appears? 

Whoa."

Honestly, this episode is, what, 5 or 6 episodes away from Written In the Stars?

It's really hard to reconcile pining for eight years with "Whoa."

Too bad we never got to see Luke explaining Nicole and the horoscope to Lorelai. 

whose face appears.jpg

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Interesting point.

I kind of feel like Luke wasn't admittedly pining for Lorelai. I mean, not to himself. He knew he had feelings for her. He got jealous when he saw her with other men. His reaction to the breaking off of her engagement with Max was very telling. But Luke also is not the most self-aware person. Although I am sure the horoscope wasn't even thought of until they were writing season 1, but Luke had the horoscope at that time, and he still needed Rachel to tell him he had feelings for Lorelai.

Speaking of season 1, the timeline is so wonky. Dean and Rory breakup on their third month anniversary, which Dean claims he started counting from Rory's birthday. So, October. Three months would be January? But in the finale Lane mentions how sad Rory has been for "the past five weeks," and yet, it's somehow the end of the school year? Unless my math is off, which could always be a possibility, the timeline is definitely off.

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On June 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, junienmomo said:

"Whose face appears? 

Whoa."

Honestly, this episode is, what, 5 or 6 episodes away from Written In the Stars?

It's really hard to reconcile pining for eight years with "Whoa."

Too bad we never got to see Luke explaining Nicole and the horoscope to Lorelai. 

whose face appears.jpg

So, I've come to rationalize it this way: From the day Lorelai nagged him with the horoscope, Luke had a crush on/was hot for Lorelai. But they became friends and found himself in that realm of "If I act on these superficial urges, I could ruin our friendship."

It wasn't until the self-help tape that he realized he didn't just have the hots for her, he actually loved her / they were actually soul mates.

So to me, it's not that he had no clue he had feelings for her, it's that he didn't know they were serious deep feelings.

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1 hour ago, takalotti said:

So, I've come to rationalize it this way: From the day Lorelai nagged him with the horoscope, Luke had a crush on/was hot for Lorelai. But they became friends and found himself in that realm of "If I act on these superficial urges, I could ruin our friendship."

It wasn't until the self-help tape that he realized he didn't just have the hots for her, he actually loved her / they were actually soul mates.

So to me, it's not that he had no clue he had feelings for her, it's that he didn't know they were serious deep feelings.

Interesting idea, I like it. 

It starts to weaken for me with the chuppah. He had to spend months carving that, which curiously is also in direct conflict to his later reputation for bad gift giving. It's further weakened with Jess' observations, which seem like pining to me. One of the stronger indications of pining for me was the inability to tell her no, excepting the dance marathon. Also the fact that we never saw him date anyone until Nicole. 

I will keep this in mind, though.

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The timeline of Keg!Max! And Say Goodnight, Gracie makes no sense- no sense! Luke was staying at the hotel with Nicole; how did Kyle's parents call him?

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56 minutes ago, deaja said:

The timeline of Keg!Max! And Say Goodnight, Gracie makes no sense- no sense! Luke was staying at the hotel with Nicole; how did Kyle's parents call him?

Luke and Nicole were also planning on skiing in mid-June. Where the heck would they even go? Nicole didn't seem like a backcountry ski girl.

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On 6/14/2016 at 7:52 PM, junienmomo said:

Interesting idea, I like it. 

It starts to weaken for me with the chuppah. He had to spend months carving that, which curiously is also in direct conflict to his later reputation for bad gift giving. It's further weakened with Jess' observations, which seem like pining to me. One of the stronger indications of pining for me was the inability to tell her no, excepting the dance marathon. Also the fact that we never saw him date anyone until Nicole. 

I will keep this in mind, though.

The horoscope weakens it also.

My theory is that he had given up on Lorelai, and put his feelings to the back of his mind. Once he thought he had no chance with Lorelai in S3, he pursued Nicole, then tried to pursue a relationship with her again in S4. In LCSHF, he realized he still loved Lorelai, and had never really stopped loving her. He had forgotten about the horoscope, and remembered it again in WItS.

Edited by Leonana

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I realize that there were time constraints in every episode. However, the one where Lorelai was talking to a bunch of Asian guests drove me nuts.  The translator was talking away at the same time Lorelai was blathering at ninety miles an hour.  That's not how a translator works.  First the speaker makes a statement and then pauses to allow for the translator to speak to the audience.  These two were trying to outshout each other.

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Just another instance in a long line of Lorelai not understanding the concept of boundaries.

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Just another instance in a long line of Lorelai not understanding the concept of boundaries.

I've always said that the way Lorelai spoke about Dean, sometimes it felt like she wanted to date him. 

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6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I've always said that the way Lorelai spoke about Dean, sometimes it felt like she wanted to date him. 

LOL, yeah those scenes can come across as...interesting. I think more charitably perhaps Lorelai's behaviour towards Dean could be read as projection and idealization because she thinks he's safe (and boy, doesn't that blow up in her face later)? There's the discussion why Lorelai doesn't do anything about Dean's arguably overly clingy and possessive behaviour, I think it's a mix of the writers not thinking it's that big a deal, Lorelai deliberately ignoring it a bit and also just the fact that she's not aware of some of the more extreme stuff Dean does ( she's mostly not directly present when he yells at Rory or does most of his more manipulative and controlling things). She also thinks he's a safe alternative to Jess, and the more concerned she's about Jess the more she tends to idealize Dean.

Which isn't such a great thing in the long run, since first boyfriends seldom last. And she inadvertedly encourages Dean's depenence on them both. I think Dean likes the feeling of belonging to the GG mother/daugher unit just as much as he likes dating Rory, so when that breaks away it hits him harder than Rory and Lorelai.

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