S22.E11: Our Words Will Not Be Heard

[formerlyfreedom]

A high-profile activist suspects her sister has been kidnapped by a hate group. Garland and Benson push for change with NYPD brass. Kat gets some good news.

Airing Thursday, April 15, 2021

[Gigi43]

The show is really gonna talk about change and holding cops accountable but still act like Tucker was in the wrong for wanting Stabler (and Amaro) gone? GTFO.

[Xeliou66]

This episode was okay but there were some flaws - there was a bit too much crammed into this one - between the case and the lawsuit, also it was blatantly obvious how short staffed SVU is, and I’m not a big fan of heavy political episodes.

The case was okay, but there wasn’t much suspense to it, it was obvious white supremacist thugs were behind it, it was just a matter of tracking them down.

It was blatantly obvious how short staffed SVU is, Garland kept saying they were getting help, but we never saw it until the end when there were a lot of officers on the street for the search. SVU needs another detective, Garland basically had to act as a de facto member of the squad tonight because they were short staffed.

I like that Carisi apparently has a girlfriend and it’s not Rollins!! And I didn’t miss Rollins at all, while she’s been okay this season, she’s just not my favorite.

They seemed to be dialing the Benson worship back up tonight, with Benson being portrayed as an all knowing, wise crusader for justice. Please dial it back some, the Benson worship hasn’t been present for a lot of the season, please don’t bring it back.

Fin was good as always, I liked seeing Phoebe again at the start and Fin was solid throughout.

Given all of the talk about the NYPD being sued, I thought it was somewhat hypocritical some of the squads actions, such as not letting the wife/sister see a lawyer, what they were saying was bullshit, she still has the right to a lawyer, and then withholding medical help to the guy at the end until he talked. So it seemed like they were opening themselves up to even more lawsuits from them, and I found their actions somewhat hypocritical, as well as disturbing, more like stuff you would see on the morally bankrupt Chicago PD show.

I liked that they mentioned Isaiah Holmes, that was good continuity to mention he was involved. I didn’t care for the mentions of Stabler, they felt shoehorned in.

Kat wasn’t annoying which was nice.

Overall this episode was just average - it wasn’t bad but there were some issues that were noticeable. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Soooooooooo many parts of the episode had the audio cut out.  What the hell?  Censoring, or bad feed from NBC or CTV?  I'm pretty frustrated.  "Our words will not be heard" indeed.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Soooooooooo many parts of the episode had the audio cut out.  What the hell?  Censoring, or bad feed from NBC or Global?  I'm pretty frustrated.  "Our words will not be heard" indeed.

Must have been a bad feed because no part of the episode had the audio cut out on my tv. 

[EtheltoTillie]

The Benson worship was ridiculous. I liked how they used the undercover cop to find the supremacists. 

[DKalldone]

I have watched this show for years & years as a CRIME show.  This last episode is the end for me.  I dont watch this for politics.

Thanks for fucking up a decent show.  You've portrayed everyone as racist.  EVERYONE, black or white.  Dont need preaching in my

TV entertainment.

[Gigi43]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

Given all of the talk about the NYPD being sued, I thought it was somewhat hypocritical some of the squads actions, such as not letting the wife/sister see a lawyer, what they were saying was bullshit, she still has the right to a lawyer, and then withholding medical help to the guy at the end until he talked. So it seemed like they were opening themselves up to even more lawsuits from them, and I found their actions somewhat hypocritical, as well as disturbing, more like stuff you would see on the morally bankrupt Chicago PD show.

 

 

This drove me crazy. I hate Nazi's but Benson's move with threatening to let him die, there was the option of threatening his sister who he seemed to care for even though the husband didn't was there, was out of line after she just got all preachy about change. Garland being fine with it was the first time he was a raging hypocrite. If that guy survived aren't they worried about yet another law suit? Tucker, who not only did his job in IAB to hold cops accountable did treat Liv well in their relationship and they're still acting like he was some bad guy for being IAB. The show is full of shit. 

 

I'm sick of the heavy handed political stuff. The Hate Crimes show Dick Wolf wanted to make never got off the ground, he shouldn't be just transporting the ideas onto SVU for twitter points. Aren't there supposedly YouTubers messaging underage kids and taking advantage of drunk girls? There was a story last year about family vloggers who gave away the autistic kid they adopted within a year of having their 4th bio kid, after profiting off the boy for a while, and no one who knew the story believed he was safe until police confirmed it and got harassed for months. There are topical cases involving sex crimes and others involving children which SVU also should cover and still be taking inspiration from headlines.

 

Phoebe showing off her ring and Finn being a big mouth were the only things I really liked about the episode. I want to like Carisi having a girlfriend but since they already had her going to the press behind their backs I doubt it will last.  

Edited April 16, 2021 by Gigi43

[wknt3]

The Good:
Rollins. Addition by subtraction. If we are going to have to do the whole Rollins family drama, at least we get a palette cleansing this week. And political material is always better when they don't have to try to make Rollins the voice of "All Lives Matter".
Fin. A lot of good material this week. He was the voice of reason. Or at least justified cynicism. And it was nice that they seem to be letting him push back on Benson a bit again.
Kat. It was nice to see them giving her some good material. And without Rollins around they don't need to make her more a stereotypical woke activist instead of a cop.
Carisi. They used his background well without making him basically a detective again.

The Bad:
This weeks crossover promotion of OC was clunky at best. Why do they insist on turning the squad into middle schoolers when it comes to inter-office romance?
Benson. They seem to be backsliding a bit on her sanctification. And hanging a lantern on her white savior complex doesn't do anything if they don't do anything about it except have all the minorities tell her that her heart was pure. Plus the end of the case went from a team effort to Batman Benson and her sidekicks, where even Garland is just there to back her up. And let's not even get in to her behavior at the deposition. The only positive was that she did manage to execute a search and rescue without turning it into a botched hostage situation.
The constant mention of Hate Crimes. We get it you really want to get the spinoff up and running and make sure we know the Hate Crimes unit is a thing in this universe. But bringing them up without showing them on screen doesn't do anything except make us wonder where they were if they can ever get the network weasels to let them make the show.

Overall it was OK. More good than bad and they seemed to show some self awareness. Unfortunately they just can't seem to really go through with having Benson be wrong. And when you've been on the air for 87 seasons with the same lead characters your execution has to be spectacular instead of just competent when you are going back to cover the same ground.

Edited April 17, 2021 by wknt3

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

 

This drove me crazy. I hate Nazi's but Benson's move with threatening to let him die, there was the option of threatening his sister who he seemed to care for even though the husband didn't was there, was out of line after she just got all preachy about change. Garland being fine with it was the first time he was a raging hypocrite. If that guy survived aren't they worried about yet another law suit? Tucker, who not only did his job in IAB to hold cops accountable did treat Liv well in their relationship and they're still acting like he was some bad guy for being IAB. The show is full of shit. 

 

I'm sick of the heavy handed political stuff. The Hate Crimes show Dick Wolf wanted to make never got off the ground, he shouldn't be just transporting the ideas onto SVU for twitter points. Aren't there supposedly YouTubers messaging underage kids and taking advantage of drunk girls? There was a story last year about family vloggers who gave away the autistic kid they adopted within a year of having their 4th bio kid, after profiting off the boy for a while, and no one who knew the story believed he was safe until police confirmed it and got harassed for months. There are topical cases involving sex crimes and others involving children which SVU also should cover and still be taking inspiration from headlines.

 

Phoebe showing off her ring and Finn being a big mouth were the only things I really liked about the episode. I want to like Carisi having a girlfriend but since they already had her going to the press behind their backs I doubt it will last.  

Agreed - I found Benson to be very hypocritical for threatening to let the guy die after she had just preached about change. And Garland was OOC for going along with it - I mean surely they had to be worried about more lawsuits from both that guy and his sister for violating their rights, and Garland is very by the book. Both Benson and Garland were hypocrites. And I’m sick of heavy handed political stuff as well.

I also found the references to Stabler and OC clunky and forced, and I didn’t get why Fin was asking about whether Benson had told Stabler about her relationship with Tucker, that whole conversation seemed odd. I’m still pissed they killed off Tucker, that was a huge mistake. 

[gesundheit]

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Given all of the talk about the NYPD being sued, I thought it was somewhat hypocritical some of the squads actions, such as not letting the wife/sister see a lawyer, what they were saying was bullshit, she still has the right to a lawyer, and then withholding medical help to the guy at the end until he talked.

I don't think anyone withheld medical help, Benson just pretended to call off the ambulance.

10 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Phoebe showing off her ring and Finn being a big mouth were the only things I really liked about the episode. I want to like Carisi having a girlfriend but since they already had her going to the press behind their backs I doubt it will last.  

Loved gossipy Finn. I hope they stick with that moving forward, it was really cute.

 

And yeah, as other folks have mentioned, if this show wants to get with the times and stop being a cop hagiography, they need to stop using IAB like it's a bad word.

Speaking of hagiographies, that bit at the end cracked me up.

Nicole: There are a lot of other women that don't have connections or resources. I mean, can we look out for them?
Carisi: Nicole, maybe now's not the ti--
Olivia: It's okay. (Looks at Nicole. Long pause.) Yeah.
Nicole: (BEAMS at St. Benson with tears in her eyes)
(sentimental music swells as Benson walks away, having done. her. job.)

Man, if we'd known we could solve systemic racism in law enforcement with a sweet whispered "yeah" from Benson, we could've done this a long time ago!

[dttruman]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Soooooooooo many parts of the episode had the audio cut out.  What the hell?  Censoring, or bad feed from NBC or Global?  I'm pretty frustrated.  "Our words will not be heard" indeed.

Must have been a bad feed because no part of the episode had the audio cut out on my tv. 

Are local channels kind of purging some content that they consider in bad taste or could incite certain bad feelings in their area?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I am in Canada, so that would be pretty surprising if so.  I was suspicious about censoring at first, but one part in the middle had almost 5 minutes of dialogue cut out.  That's a lot.  I tend to think it was a bad feed to CTV.

[dttruman]

32 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I don't think anyone withheld medical help, Benson just pretended to call off the ambulance.

If there is another lawsuit, would Benson and Garland cover for themselves? Shouldn't the SVU be wearing bodycams also? Wouldn't this support the wounded suspects claim of threatening to with hold medical help by Benson?

[gesundheit]

10 minutes ago, dttruman said:

If there is another lawsuit, would Benson and Garland cover for themselves? Shouldn't the SVU be wearing bodycams also? Wouldn't this support the wounded suspects claim of threatening to with hold medical help by Benson?

But if they know on the other end that Benson called for help and didn't call it off, why would it matter? I think they're allowed to mislead a suspect when trying to stop a crime in progress, he can't prove that they called off medical assistance if they didn't. I could be wrong but I think there are certain levels of deception they're allowed to use. As in, they couldn't charge him for anything he admitted to based on a lie from them, but they weren't going for a confession, just a location.

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, gesundheit said:

But if they know on the other end that Benson called for help and didn't call it off, why would it matter? I think they're allowed to mislead a suspect when trying to stop a crime in progress, he can't prove that they called off medical assistance if they didn't.

I believe this would be a classic example of "coercion". It might be a good way to get the information they want, but they would be paying for it later. Considering the major push for a cops to wear bodycams now, I wonder why SVU doesn't wear them on excursions like this?

[TooMuchRealityTV]

So I guess every week we will get a new awkward reference to Stabler. Liv is the ex-girlfriend who will never be over it. Except she was never actually a girlfriend....

 

[marceline]

Fin: I told Eliot that you were seeing somebody while he was away.

Me: It's been TEN YEARS!! She also adopted a child. A child who works my nerves but still...

The last thing I needed in my TV life is Benson and Stabler back together. Somewhere in the afterlife, Tucker is watching this mess and thinking "Are you kidding me?"

[Gigi43]

34 minutes ago, marceline said:

Fin: I told Eliot that you were seeing somebody while he was away.

Me: It's been TEN YEARS!! She also adopted a child. A child who works my nerves but still...

The last thing I needed in my TV life is Benson and Stabler back together. Somewhere in the afterlife, Tucker is watching this mess and thinking "Are you kidding me?"

 

Back when the show wouldn't even say the name Stabler, Benson told Amaro he was better for her than her "old partner" and there were digs that she was better off and allowed to grow without Stabler around --- I mean "him"/"old partner "--- now all of a sudden she's sniffing around him and it's treated like some scandal she had boyfriends and became a mom.

 

Tucker deserved better. 

[wknt3]

3 hours ago, marceline said:

Somewhere in the afterlife, Tucker is watching this mess and thinking "Are you kidding me?"

Nah. There's no way Tucker is watching this drivel. Despite the tragic circumstances of his passing he, unlike us, has half a brain.

[tennisgurl]

This episode had so much going on, its hard to even decide on where to start. It felt way too busy, so much going on that I struggled getting really involved in any of it. We have Benson and the continuation of the unjustified arrest she and Finn made and the lawsuit, the kidnapping, which is connected to the girlfriend Carisi now apparently has, as well as constant talk about the Hate Crimes unit that we never see because they really want that spin off and we just keeping trying to make it a thing, and trying to lamely still cross over with OC and the never ending Stabler/Benson drama, just way way too much. I was not a fan. It had some decent stuff, but this was a real let down after last weeks stronger outing. It had a lot going on too, but felt much more interesting and fully formed, which this felt like a bunch of ideas all thrown at the wall. 

Its sad how understaffed they really are, there are so few people in SVU that its actually become a plot point. I did like the twist with the first guy they arrested being an undercover cop, I didnt see that coming, and how they used him. 

I am glad that Carisi has a non Rollins girlfriend, but she didnt come off super great here. Advocating for missing women and girls of color is great, her fighting for her sister was admirable, and she and Carisi seemed to have decent chemistry, and I get why she wanted to make sure NYPD was doing all they could for her sister, hence the news report, but come on how dumb is she that she didnt see that all coming? Of course they don't want to draw attention to this right now, they don't want more creeps finding out about this dark web auction and getting involved, this kidnapper WANTS attention, she played right into his hands. This also really isnt the time to turn this into a way to talk more about her issue, her sister is about to be tortured to death, maybe focus on that? I also wanted to know why her sister was hiding her girlfriend from her family, was it because she was white and in a wheelchair? Because not wanting your sister to date a person with a disability is a really bad look, and not wanting her to date a white women isnt great either, especially because she herself is dating a white man. Was she just assuming? Because I thought we might get a moment at the end where she tells her rescued sister that she approves of anyone she dates and she just loves her and she shouldn't have to hide her life, but no we had to get more Benson worship in. If both sisters are secretly dating white people, which is kind of hilarious, and it took this to get everything out in the open, they have some real communication issues to deal with. 

After the show seemingly dialed back on the Benson worship, it came back HARD this week, like we were all being indoctrinated to the church of St. Olivia, the one true savior of the NYPD who will single handedly end police brutality and racism, she who cares about victims more than anyone, and will personally fix all institutional problems in policing. Its just embarrassing, the amount of worship being thrown at her was over the top even by this shows standards. Thats not even getting into the whole squads obsession with her and Stabler, acting like a bunch of gossipy teenagers giggling over Benson's ex boyfriend showing up again. Why does everyone act like they were dating for ten years and have just reunited again? They were partners, and they haven't seen each other in a literal decade, why would she need to tell him about her other relationships? Why are they doing on about his antics on the spin-off? 

Well at least the awkward connections between this and the organized crime spin off is between them and an actual show, they have so many references to the hate crimes unit that it feels like a crossover with a show that doesent exist. I cant tell if they are still trying to make the hate crimes spin off a thing or if this is just one of those deals where a spin off doesent get picked up and the people behind the main show are obviously salty and are trying to add as many elements from their spin off into the main show as possible because its still something they really like and are mad that they cant do a whole show about it. This is two weeks in a row about hate crimes, with the sex crimes being set decorations to get to the hate crimes the show really wants to do, plus a LOT of politics and a LOT of speeches, which is always pretty hit or miss on this show. We get it show, we know your feelings on all the issues, can we maybe do something else for a minute? I know this show has always loved its ripped from the headlines, but its always the same damn headlines now, its gotten pretty old. As important as these issues of race and police violence and violence against people of color are, I would really like them to focus on some issues that do not get the big headlines and are not the things that every show is talking about, maybe bring them to the foreground and give them some attention? I am very sorry that hate crimes didnt get picked up, can we do this show now? 

If this show wants to be all about how the NYPD has to change, they cant also have the cops doing sketchy stuff like threatening to let a suspect bleed to death to get him to talk. I think that Olivia was bluffing and she really did call the ambulance, but they need to be more specific about that when they have a whole episode about how cops need to do better. I have less than zero sympathy for these racist pieces of shit, and its obviously not the same as their shameful treatment of people of color that is being discussed, but you just cant do a whole episode about how cops need to improve, then show them going all dirty harry on suspects. They also need to stop always making IAB the bad guys if they want to be the hip woke show about fixing the police, thats the problem with this show. They want to go there with police brutality, but they dont want to really GO THERE and risk making their heroes look bad. 

Finn talking about his engagement and being gossipy with Kat about her promotion were fun bits, and I really did not miss Rollins and her family drama, so we had that at least. Not an awful episode, but not very good either. Way too many moving parts, and way too much Benson drama. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by tennisgurl

[dttruman]

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode had so much going on, its hard to even decide on where to start. It felt way too busy, so much going on that I struggled getting really involved in any of it. We have Benson and the continuation of the unjustified arrest she and Finn made and the lawsuit, the kidnapping, which is connected to the girlfriend Carisi now apparently has, as well as constant talk about the Hate Crimes unit that we never see because they really want that spin off and we just keeping trying to make it a thing, and trying to lamely still cross over with OC and the never ending Stabler/Benson drama, just way way too much. I was not a fan. It had some decent stuff, but this was a real let down after last weeks stronger outing. It had a lot going on too, but felt much more interesting and fully formed, which this felt like a bunch of ideas all thrown at the wall. 

Its sad how understaffed they really are, there are so few people in SVU that its actually become a plot point. I did like the twist with the first guy they arrested being an undercover cop, I didnt see that coming, and how they used him. 

I am glad that Carisi has a non Rollins girlfriend, but she didnt come off super great here. Advocating for missing women and girls of color is great, her fighting for her sister was admirable, and she and Carisi seemed to have decent chemistry, and I get why she wanted to make sure NYPD was doing all they could for her sister, hence the news report, but come on how dumb is she that she didnt see that all coming? Of course they don't want to draw attention to this right now, they don't want more creeps finding out about this dark web auction and getting involved, this kidnapper WANTS attention, she played right into his hands. This also really isnt the time to turn this into a way to talk more about her issue, her sister is about to be tortured to death, maybe focus on that? I also wanted to know why her sister was hiding her girlfriend from her family, was it because she was white and in a wheelchair? Because not wanting your sister to date a person with a disability is a really bad look, and not wanting her to date a white women isnt great either, especially because she herself is dating a white man. Was she just assuming? Because I thought we might get a moment at the end where she tells her rescued sister that she approves of anyone she dates and she just loves her and she shouldn't have to hide her life, but no we had to get more Benson worship in. If both sisters are secretly dating white people, which is kind of hilarious, and it took this to get everything out in the open, they have some real communication issues to deal with. 

After the show seemingly dialed back on the Benson worship, it came back HARD this week, like we were all being indoctrinated to the church of St. Olivia, the one true savior of the NYPD who will single handedly end police brutality and racism, she who cares about victims more than anyone, and will personally fix all institutional problems in policing. Its just embarrassing, the amount of worship being thrown at her was over the top even by this shows standards. Thats not even getting into the whole squads obsession with her and Stabler, acting like a bunch of gossipy teenagers giggling over Benson's ex boyfriend showing up again. Why does everyone act like they were dating for ten years and have just reunited again? They were partners, and they haven't seen each other in a literal decade, why would she need to tell him about her other relationships? Why are they doing on about his antics on the spin-off? 

Well at least the awkward connections between this and the organized crime spin off is between them and an actual show, they have so many references to the hate crimes unit that it feels like a crossover with a show that doesent exist. I cant tell if they are still trying to make the hate crimes spin off a thing or if this is just one of those deals where a spin off doesent get picked up and the people behind the main show are obviously salty and are trying to add as many elements from their spin off into the main show as possible because its still something they really like and are mad that they cant do a whole show about it. This is two weeks in a row about hate crimes, with the sex crimes being set decorations to get to the hate crimes the show really wants to do, plus a LOT of politics and a LOT of speeches, which is always pretty hit or miss on this show. We get it show, we know your feelings on all the issues, can we maybe do something else for a minute? I know this show has always loved its ripped from the headlines, but its always the same damn headlines now, its gotten pretty old. As important as these issues of race and police violence and violence against people of color are, I would really like them to focus on some issues that do not get the big headlines and are not the things that every show is talking about, maybe bring them to the foreground and give them some attention? I am very sorry that hate crimes didnt get picked up, can we do this show now? 

If this show wants to be all about how the NYPD has to change, they cant also have the cops doing sketchy stuff like threatening to let a suspect bleed to death to get him to talk. I think that Olivia was bluffing and she really did call the ambulance, but they need to be more specific about that when they have a whole episode about how cops need to do better. I have less than zero sympathy for these racist pieces of shit, and its obviously not the same as their shameful treatment of people of color that is being discussed, but you just cant do a whole episode about how cops need to improve, then show them going all dirty harry on suspects. They also need to stop always making IAB the bad guys if they want to be the hip woke show about fixing the police, thats the problem with this show. They want to go there with police brutality, but they dont want to really GO THERE and risk making their heroes look bad. 

Finn talking about his engagement and being gossipy with Kat about her promotion were fun bits, and I really did not miss Rollins and her family drama, so we had that at least. Not an awful episode, but not very good either. Way too many moving parts, and way too much Benson drama. 

I am sending this review to the Smithsonian, because that is where it belongs! Well Done!

[wanderingstar]

Based on a clip I saw, this looks like an episode that will make me want to throw things.

[melon]

This episode was so hypocritical.  Benson was talking about the systemic changes that she wants to make the NYPD more accountable.

After Benson gets off her soap box.... Kat strikes a detained person (UC) immediately after hearing she's getting promoted.  He might have been in cuffs, too.  Then the wife of the racist was denied the right to an attorney- is that actually an exception to the Miranda or were the cops going rogue?  Then they tell a badly injured suspect that he won't get medical attention until after he confesses to what he knows.

Some will say that racists don't deserve the same rights under the law.  But just imagine if each of the 3 perps were black in this episode. 

 

 

[Xeliou66]

21 minutes ago, melon said:

This episode was so hypocritical.  Benson was talking about the systemic changes that she wants to make the NYPD more accountable.

After Benson gets off her soap box.... Kat strikes a detained person (UC) immediately after hearing she's getting promoted.  He might have been in cuffs, too.  Then the wife of the racist was denied the right to an attorney- is that actually an exception to the Miranda or were the cops going rogue?  Then they tell a badly injured suspect that he won't get medical attention until after he confesses to what he knows.

Some will say that racists don't deserve the same rights under the law.  But just imagine if each of the 3 perps were black in this episode. 

 

 

Agreed it was disturbing and hypocritical, I called it out in my post about the episode as well. Benson was on her soapbox about how the police need to change, and then her and her squad go rogue and violate people’s rights. And no there was no exception to the wife/sister’s right to a lawyer, they were just lying. They should be concerned about more lawsuits as well, as they could face more lawsuits for their actions in this episode. It was more like the stuff you see on Chicago PD, where at least they are upfront about being pro torture and anti reform. This was a very hypocritical episode but of course Benson is portrayed as a holy figure and a hero. 

[jabRI]

Kat didn't really strike a detained person, as this was an UC and they needed to make it look good. 

Was surprised at how it ended, the sister was 'fine' and the guy just surrendered.  Guess he just wanted to make a name for himself?  

I wish they'd stop trying to re-write the Benson/Stabler history.  They were partners, I never got even an emotional affair vibe from them.  Yeah, Fin telling Stabler Benson had 'dated' in the past 10 years? It would be news if she hadn't, come on already.  Stabler was married and had another kid (or was that the one that Benson 'saved'?)

Edited April 17, 2021 by jabRI

[kicotan]

2 hours ago, melon said:

Some will say that racists don't deserve the same rights under the law.  But just imagine if each of the 3 perps were black in this episode. 

I think the writers were trying to be ironic.  At least I hope they were, because it read that way to me.

They had Carisi, St. Olivia and the rest treating the white perps poorly and not caring at all if they could be held accountable later and at the same time being overtly sensitive to the plight of persons of color, stumbling over themselves with apologies and promises for results and change.  The icing on the cake was that both sisters were hiding their relationships with white people from each other and family members.

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, kicotan said:

I think the writers were trying to be ironic.  At least I hope they were, because it read that way to me.

They had Carisi, St. Olivia and the rest treating the white perps poorly and not caring at all if they could be held accountable later and at the same time being overtly sensitive to the plight of persons of color, stumbling over themselves with apologies and promises for results and change.  The icing on the cake was that both sisters were hiding their relationships with white people from each other and family members.

Oh I don’t think the SVU writers have any sense or irony or know how to do subtle things at all. It was just shitty writing. 

[melon]

1 hour ago, jabRI said:

Kat didn't really strike a detained person, as this was an UC and they needed to make it look good. 

Was surprised at how it ended, the sister was 'fine' and the guy just surrendered.  Guess he just wanted to make a name for himself?  

I wish they'd stop trying to re-write the Benson/Stabler history.  They were partners, I never got even an emotional affair vibe from them.  Yeah, Fin telling Stabler Benson had 'dated' in the past 10 years? It would be news if she hadn't, come on already.  Stabler was married and had another kid (or was that the one that Benson 'saved'?)

 

I deleted the episode from the dvr, so I can't double check the scene with the UC.  Did the SVU detectives know he was a UC before the arrest, or after they got to the precinct?  I'd be surprised if that information is in the computer for other officers to see. 

Plus, a smart UC keeps anonymous to stay alive, and he wasn't working for SVU.  Even Cassidy kept his old SVU comrades in the dark when he was UC (and then socked Amaro in the jaw to make it look good, lol). 

[853fisher]

I thought there was little to redeem this episode.  Many of my thoughts have already been covered.  The escalating auction premise was too much like torture porn.  I understand that the intent was to be shocking, but "negress" twice was an awful lot too.  Thank goodness they didn't use that clip a third time or enough characters of color might not have gotten a chance to pat Benson on the back.  I thought this was the worst outing of the season so far.

Edited April 18, 2021 by 853fisher

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, melon said:

 

I deleted the episode from the dvr, so I can't double check the scene with the UC.  Did the SVU detectives know he was a UC before the arrest, or after they got to the precinct?  I'd be surprised if that information is in the computer for other officers to see. 

Plus, a smart UC keeps anonymous to stay alive, and he wasn't working for SVU.  Even Cassidy kept his old SVU comrades in the dark when he was UC (and then socked Amaro in the jaw to make it look good, lol). 

Yeah they knew he was a UC, that’s why they went and picked him up. They probably coordinated with other squads to find out who they had undercover in the white supremacist movement and that’s how they found out. 

[dttruman]

20 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

1 hour ago, melon said:

 

I deleted the episode from the dvr, so I can't double check the scene with the UC.  Did the SVU detectives know he was a UC before the arrest, or after they got to the precinct?  I'd be surprised if that information is in the computer for other officers to see. 

Plus, a smart UC keeps anonymous to stay alive, and he wasn't working for SVU.  Even Cassidy kept his old SVU comrades in the dark when he was UC (and then socked Amaro in the jaw to make it look good, lol). 

Yeah they knew he was a UC, that’s why they went and picked him up. They probably coordinated with other squads to find out who they had undercover in the white supremacist movement and that’s how they found out. 

I'm kind of going off course here with Cassidy, but if he could keep his cool when he was UC, what the hell happen to him when he became an unstable mess when he was testifying in court  as a DA investigator (Chasing Demons).  Very inconsistent and diverse behavior patterns, if you ask me

[Broderbits]

19 hours ago, melon said:

Then the wife of the racist was denied the right to an attorney- is that actually an exception to the Miranda or were the cops going rogue?

She wasn't under arrest, just being questioned. Plus one of the exceptions to Miranda is emergency hostage situations or hostage negotiations.

[txhorns79]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:56 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am glad that Carisi has a non Rollins girlfriend, but she didnt come off super great here. Advocating for missing women and girls of color is great, her fighting for her sister was admirable, and she and Carisi seemed to have decent chemistry, and I get why she wanted to make sure NYPD was doing all they could for her sister, hence the news report, but come on how dumb is she that she didnt see that all coming?

I honestly thought there would be a twist at the end and we'd find out Carisi's new friend set up her sister in order to draw attention to her group.  I did notice she seemed fairly hostile towards her sister's girlfriend, but that kind of went nowhere.   

[Gigi43]

23 hours ago, kicotan said:

I think the writers were trying to be ironic.  At least I hope they were, because it read that way to me.

They had Carisi, St. Olivia and the rest treating the white perps poorly and not caring at all if they could be held accountable later and at the same time being overtly sensitive to the plight of persons of color, stumbling over themselves with apologies and promises for results and change.  The icing on the cake was that both sisters were hiding their relationships with white people from each other and family members.

 

I don't think they're being ironic, I think the writers are just throwing popular talking points out there for the acclaim -SJWSVU twitter loved Benson's canceling the ambulance move- but they don't actually believe in it/care fully to really adjust the stories so you get the uneven messes.

[Gigi43]

SVU is falling into the trap Soaps have (in different ways of doing so) in  bending over backwards in their own ways to try to get the younger audience or certain vocal ones that will promote the show, unwilling to study the numbers to get they're driving away more viewers than they're gaining. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Gigi43

[susannah]

I really disliked this storyline, and disliked Nicole even more. First off, the Nazi guys were targeting the women for being lesbian. I get that Nicole didn't know at first that Sara and Alicia were together, but what did she do after she did know? Go on yowling about how the NYPD doesn't look for black girls, even though they both were missing. Then Alicia is just dumped out somewhere. Luckily she was found right away but what if she wasn't? Without a phone and her chair, she was completely vulnerable, and anything else could have happened to her. Did Nicole so much as ask her if she was okay? No. It was all about the NYPD not looking for black girls, and making everything worse for Sara. No, Alicia didn't suffer at all, it was only Sara that mattered, apparently. I don't think Olivia really cancelled the ambulance, just let the guy think she did. I also hope that the poor little boy is taken so far away from that family his grandchildren won't know them. I didn't see the prior episode with the black guy suing the department but gather he was arrested after some stupid woman said he was threatening her kid or something? I always like Jennifer Esposito and love that she and Fin are together, though in a previous guest role, she was close with Munch, before she got blown up. Here is something that I thought of and wondered if anyone would know. Would the men be guilty of rape by forcing the women to perform sexual acts on each other, even though the men didn't touch them?

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, susannah said:

Here is something that I thought of and wondered if anyone would know. Would the men be guilty of rape by forcing the women to perform sexual acts on each other, even though the men didn't touch them?

That would probably fall under the human trafficking law or something like that.

1 hour ago, susannah said:

I always like Jennifer Esposito and love that she and Fin are together, though in a previous guest role, she was close with Munch, before she got blown up

I like her too, she always played good characters on other shows. But it seems like she had trouble being a regular on TV series. Blue Bloods was a regular gig for her, but she had some type of illness that prevented her from continuing. She found a niche for guest roles though.

[CrystalBlue]

On 4/15/2021 at 9:53 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Soooooooooo many parts of the episode had the audio cut out.  What the hell?  Censoring, or bad feed from NBC or CTV?  I'm pretty frustrated.  "Our words will not be heard" indeed.

I watched on Hulu, four days later, and it was all intact for me.  Must have been your broadcaster experiencing bad feed.

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

I watched on Hulu, four days later, and it was all intact for me.  Must have been your broadcaster experiencing bad feed.

A girlfriend of mine had the same issue.  Stupid Canadian TV.

[CrystalBlue]

I'm pretty sure Olivia pretended to call off the bus, because had she really done so, dispatch recordings would have a record of it.  Also, as was mentioned above, there are exceptions to the Miranda Rights Law, five of them, which are:

There are some exceptions to the Miranda Rule, in which an interrogation can legally occur without the detainee being read their Miranda rights first. These include situations such as:

    The suspect is being asked questions that are standard booking procedures
    The situation involves an emergency hostage situation or negotiation
    The person is unaware that they are speaking with a police officer
    The police questions is necessary for preserving public safety
    The person voluntarily agreed to meet and speak with the police, and the conversation is being taped in secret

In such situations, the person’s Miranda rights do not exist or are diminished. Thus, for example, the police can question a person who is holding someone hostage, even if they requested an attorney and their attorney has not yet showed up.

I found the conference room deposition encounter with lawsuit guy and Olivia questionable.

At least Garland told Olivia to stay away from Stabler.  I guess they already have his number!

[dttruman]

9 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

There are some exceptions to the Miranda Rule, in which an interrogation can legally occur without the detainee being read their Miranda rights first. These include situations such as:

    The suspect is being asked questions that are standard booking procedures
    The situation involves an emergency hostage situation or negotiation
    The person is unaware that they are speaking with a police officer
    The police questions is necessary for preserving public safety
    The person voluntarily agreed to meet and speak with the police, and the conversation is being taped in secret

In such situations, the person’s Miranda rights do not exist or are diminished. Thus, for example, the police can question a person who is holding someone hostage, even if they requested an attorney and their attorney has not yet showed up.

Great info!

[melon]

21 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I'm pretty sure Olivia pretended to call off the bus, because had she really done so, dispatch recordings would have a record of it.  Also, as was mentioned above, there are exceptions to the Miranda Rights Law, five of them, which are:

There are some exceptions to the Miranda Rule, in which an interrogation can legally occur without the detainee being read their Miranda rights first. These include situations such as:

    The suspect is being asked questions that are standard booking procedures
    The situation involves an emergency hostage situation or negotiation
    The person is unaware that they are speaking with a police officer
    The police questions is necessary for preserving public safety
    The person voluntarily agreed to meet and speak with the police, and the conversation is being taped in secret

In such situations, the person’s Miranda rights do not exist or are diminished. Thus, for example, the police can question a person who is holding someone hostage, even if they requested an attorney and their attorney has not yet showed up.

I found the conference room deposition encounter with lawsuit guy and Olivia questionable.

At least Garland told Olivia to stay away from Stabler.  I guess they already have his number!

Thanks.  In this case, I don't think it was an issue if Miranda rights were read.  It was that the wife confidently said that she knows her rights and wasn't going to talk before she could consult with a lawyer.  She was concerned about her son and wanted to see him and was told that she wasn't going to see him for a long time.  So, I assumed that she was being charged because she wasn't allowed to leave and it didn't seem like a stall tactic.  Besides she was actively involved in setting up the kidnapping and not an innocent bystander.

And SVU said that in these types of cases, the police can prevent the perp from having access to a lawyer and denied her request.   It wasn't a situation where Benson wanted the staff to ask questions while waiting for the lawyer to save time- it was a complete denial of legal counsel.   I'm just wondering if that is the law or creative Dick Wolf writing?

On 4/19/2021 at 2:10 AM, susannah said:

.....

I always like Jennifer Esposito and love that she and Fin are together, though in a previous guest role, she was close with Munch, before she got blown up. ...

Now that you mentioned it, yes, I remember that Esposito was a television personality and a survivor- and carried a bomb into her apartment. So, I guess she's a different character now.  The same thing happened with Kelli Giddish.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

The beginning of this episode was weird. Garland tells Olivia that she is probably going to go down as the scapegoat for the lawsuit. Then she goes to see the IAB lady who immediately tells her she is safe. Is a deputy chief really that out of touch?

On 4/17/2021 at 5:43 AM, marceline said:

Fin: I told Eliot that you were seeing somebody while he was away.

Me: It's been TEN YEARS!! She also adopted a child. A child who works my nerves but still...

The weird thing is that Olivia also dated Cassidy while Stabler was gone. Or was Fun planning on filling Stabler in on Benson's entire dating history.

On 4/17/2021 at 4:47 PM, Xeliou66 said:

And no there was no exception to the wife/sister’s right to a lawyer, they were just lying. 

Isn't that what the cops did after the Boston Marathon bombings? Once they had the surviving bomber in custody they were able to question him without ba lawyer since finding out if there were more bombs or bombers was of higher importance.