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S11.E09: Pineapple Puss

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A psychic unveils Dolores' health crisis, Melissa's marital issues and secrets about Teresa's dating life as Jennifer struggles to find peace between her mother and father.

Airdate: 04.14.2021

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12 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

What’s the point of kissing everyone and carrying a mask around in your hand?

Exactly what I’d like to know.

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9 minutes ago, Wicked said:

I just want Dolores to be happy!

It took a couple of seasons for me to warm up to Delores and Frank, but now they’re my favorite people on the show. I pray Delores’s biopsy is negative!

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Melissa, if your daughter is 15, she knows about sex.  She may not have had it, but, she knows about it.

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Antonia is 15 and Melissa/Joe haven’t had “the talk” with her yet? That’s either not true or just foolish.

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1 minute ago, whydoievencare said:

Exactly!!  You don't wait until a kid is 15 to have "the talk"!  And it's inconceivable to me that Melissa thinks it's in any way appropriate to advisable to do this with her daughter in front of the camera.  What kid in the world would want that?  Some things should actually be private.

 

 

I agree....Antonia already knows about sex.  And, I agree - I do NOT want to see Melissa having the "respect your body, wait until you're in love, talk to me first" conversation with Antonia.  I don't think putting this on TV is appropriate at all.  Way to pimp out your kids' discomfort to be relevant.

Just listening to Melissa and Joe talking about this discussion with Antonia on their "date night" was uncomfortable for me - I can't imagine how Antonia must be feeling.

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I’m glad that, nine episodes into the season, we get the backstory as to why Jennifer’s mom is mad at her dad.  That historical shit actually interested me a lot more than whatever else is going on in this season (what is going on in this season again?). A sad, separated pair of elderly parents with no real explanation just wasn’t doing it for me. I wonder why Jen and her mom were ambivalent about Jen’s daughter eating breakfast before she went to school, only for the girl not to get a breakfast.  People who skip breakfast tend to be more obese.  Jen just lost so much weight.  She should know these things.  Especially, as we know, Jennifer is a full-time mother.  She can’t fix a healthy breakfast for someone who needs one?  It’s time for someone qualified to write an article in judgment of that, I say.  Not about how many toys they have.  Two totally different issues.  

It was the seventies and the times were different when Margaret was sleeping around?  And, so?  What about the 1870s when her great-grandmother was sleeping around?  Why are we supposed to care about this shit again?  She’s not famous for anything other than being famous.  Who gives a fig who she had consensual sex with in the 1970s??  Was there an adult in the seventies who didn’t have consensual sex?

Margaret, Melissa and Jackie team up as the Boring Triplets as per usual.  Margaret tells us about the seventies and how she traded on her looks 🤮 and then pivots to how horrible Joe Go is to Melissa and then they pivot in concert to Teresa.  These Hoes know which side their bread is buttered.  It’s sad and boring.  

Melissa, you are the worst liar on the face of the planet—remember when Andy asked you point blank if you got your nose done and you told him it was makeup, leaned into him, and asked him to look at your face closely so that he could see the “contour”?  Contorted with a chisel, four times, thank you for pointing that out, Jacqueline Laurita!

Why did Dolores take so much time to get her own mammogram when she won an award for urging other women to get mammograms?  Because she is a “do as I say, not as I do” person.  Move over, Caroline.  Dolores...Frank isn’t your husband and the fact that you refer to yourself as his “wife” is disturbing.  Like, it’s actually really disturbing.  This is me repeating the idea that there is something more going on between them than business.  What is so gross is that they previewed Dolores crying to look like it was over a medical issue, and it was from Boo.  The producers are really swinging and missing here.  

Where did Teresa’s three oldest daughters get such deep voices from?  Neither of their parents have particularly deep voices. 

Melissa doesn’t know about psychics, but she’s confident about mediums.  Long way from season three “thank you Jes-us” Melissa.  Next time Teresa professes to be “a devout Catholic”—a phrase she trots out fairly often, along with Ramona from RHNYC—I am calling bullshit.  

What’s tone-deaf to Margaret about Jennifer wanting a housekeeper?  If Teresa took to Instagram to look for a housekeeper, Margaret would think it was hilarious!  She is in such bitch-eating-crackers territory with Jen.  Jennifer has five children and she wants one housekeeper.  Margaret has no kids that live at home, and she has Marleny heating up her coffee and Lexi...well, Lexi has been absent since Lake George, and I’d like to keep it that way, so I’m not going to invoke her name any further, in case it’s some type of Bettlejuice thing.  🙏

Margaret looked so pretty at the psychic bullshit (but I repeat myself) second episode in a row.  What’s gong on?  The makeup was perfection.  Jackie looked pretty too.  I loved the high-wasted pants and the turtleneck was so chic and so much more flattering to her figure than anything else she’s worn this season.  Melissa, coming in at a 10, drunk, with 1,000 questions and thinking she is so cute for asking them of the “psychic” in a sweatshirt that had Versace pasted over the front was so bad on so many levels.  Did she get that at Envy or the flea market, two for $20 shoved in a black plastic bag?  I know where I would rather shop...

”Ocean of the motion refers to sex” -Melissa.  Keep up with the pearls of wisdom, my friend.  

This is the second time this season that Teresa has worn a romper type thing in a print, and I don’t find it flattering to her body type.  The wide belt gives her a waist, yes, but the ensemble makes her look more bottom-heavy than she is.  Maybe something more fitted would slim her down.  She’s not fat at all, but she’s not super-lithe either.  A nice cocktail dress would have worked out well too.  Jennifer and Dolores have roughly the same figure, and they both looked better, even though, Dolores, your girls are in their fifties.  Do you think it’s time, as Jill Zarin would say, to “put on a brar”?  Second episode in a row Dolores somehow thought this was a good aesthetic. 

“Housekeeper is degrading”?  Oh shit, we went there. Someone call Leah from RHNYC so that she can weigh in with the woke police!

I hate everything about psychics, and the only thing I hate more are psychics on reality TV who come on to move the story along (like RHOC, when the psychic joined some of the ladies at a restaurant to say that he “[didn’t] see” Brooks’s cancer and that drove three seasons of storyline).  Yeah, I’m not here for that.  

Dolores, you answered your own question when you asked what is wrong with going to a psychic because you’re a Catholic and she said it’s against her religion.  That’s like Jackie saying it’s Rosh Hashanah, but what is wrong with eating during the day...um, it’s a violation of your religion.  What needs to be hashed out?  I am remembering when Kyle Richards said to the psychic in season one of RHBH, “Excuse me, you’re boring me.”  That applies here on so many levels!

All the shit about Boo dying, oh my fucking God.  That was a minor plot line on Dolores’s original season, and now we’re revisiting it because this show cannot fill a 44 minute time slot.  So fucking stupid.  

I don’t believe in psychics—at all—so this is a rhetorical question, but if the bitch knows so much, why does she feel the need to ask so many questions, like whether Jackie has an “E” connected to her.  Shouldn’t the damn psychic know?  

I thought last week was bad, but this week is worse—they used a psychic in order to go down memory lane to grandparents and the Armenian Genocide because there is nothing to fill an episode!  Have these people (cast and crew) no shame whatsoever??  Never mind, I think I know. 

Since this episode was so thoroughly boring, does anyone remember when Jackie’s mom got that fabulous makeover that took 15 years off her age, and she immediately reverted to the same ugly, old white hair?  This is where my mind goes during the episode, though I did appreciate seeing Jackie’s family celebrate the Jewish new year, although...aren’t Jewish adults supposed to refrain from work during this time? 🤔 (rhetorical question; my mind is made up).  

Melissa and Joe on a date...back to boring.  Holy shit, Antonia knows about the birds and the bees, she told them about sex last season!  If Melissa is specifically referring to talking to Antonia about the values that her parents hold dear for her as a child, such as no sex before marriage, a.) huge parenting fail, and that discussion should have occurred way, way before 15 and having a boyfriend and; b.) you assholes are really continuing to put that on camera to embarrass her like that?  At least when Britney Spears put out to the media when she was in her teens that she was going to wait until marriage to have sex, that was ostensibly her decision (and how did that one turn out 😆?)

I think Melissa was a freak in the sheets before Tarzan came along and she gradually lost all interest in anything carnal.  Remember last season, she was at the restaurant and said without quite saying, that she swam in the lady pond and she said on one reunion, emphatically, that she has lived, which accounted for her child-rearing tactics?  They are just rehashing this because they have nothing else, nor did they ever have much.  Yes, Joe and Melissa met when Melissa was 24, about four faces ago, and she was wearing a leopard bikini in Cancun and Joe said he had to have that girl and, lo and behold, he got her, and we got them.  We get it.  We hear you loud and clear.  Can we please go back to Jen’s mom not wanting to move to the US with her dad and the tumult that festered therefrom?  

I may be the sole person on the planet who doesn’t care about Teresa’s love life.  Just how long are they going to tease us about it?  Unless she is dating the Man on the Moon-cum Elvis Presley (skinny Elvis, not jumpsuit Elvis), the tease has rendered it officially boring to me.  

The best part of the episode was Evan shutting down the psychic bullshit by saying all Jewish people have a grandparent named Esther.  

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4 minutes ago, escape said:

Dolores is under rated has a HW.  Not everyone needs to be an over the top drama queen.  She's not afraid to call people out or defend herself and her friends.  But she can also be the voice of reason.    She is fair and will move on.

And this is why she's my favorite NJ housewife. 

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So, is most of Margaret's book going to be dedicated to describing what kind of crappy upbringing she had with Marge, Sr?  Who the hell will want to read a book about Margaret Joseph's life story??  Is this going to be another "raised by wolves" story, a la Bethenny Frankel? 

Margaret basically just told the viewing public that her Mom was a slut and that she, then, followed in those same footsteps.  "It was the 70's" ......  wait - I thought it was the 80's?  Isn't that what she told everyone when she said that she was 22 and slept with her boss?  

I get that things were much different then (I was a teenager/young adult out in the working world in the late 70's/early 80's, so I am well aware of the differences between then and now), but it seems like Margaret is using that to excuse her and her Mom's behavior.  I'm trying hard here not to slut-shame, but when Margaret admits that she and her mother used sex her looks, aka "feminine wiles" to get what they wanted, it's kind of hard not to.  That type of lifestyle was a choice - there are thousands and thousands of young/middle-aged women who weren't sleeping around during that time period -women who had some self-respect and personal values.

Margaret looked gorgeous at the psychic/medium night at Teresa's - I don't understand how one person can look so good some times and so completely opposite other times!!!!  I just wish that Margaret would wear better foundation garments.  Just because you paid for those breasts doesn't mean you have to show them off all the time.  Besides, I think she got ripped off, because they aren't all that great looking!!  

ETA:  Margaret and Jan's wedding photo was gorgeous - she really was a stunningly gorgeous young woman!  

 

 

Edited by njbchlover
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28 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

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Edited by ichbin · Reason: double image removed
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Well, THAT was b-o-r-i-n-g!  So boring in fact, that I got in a quick nap before bedtime! 

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1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I’m glad that, nine episodes into the season, we get the backstory as to why Jennifer’s mom is mad at her dad.  That historical shit actually interested me a lot more than whatever else is going on in this season (what is going on in this season again?).

Yes!  Me too.  Maybe because the elderly parents are probably more likely to be putting the actual real into the reality TV.  

1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Was there an adult in the seventies who didn’t have consensual sex?

For sure! It was the decade following the ready availability of the pill and well into the era of sexual liberation.  Margaret can spin her story however she chooses, but I was around during that time and I've known plenty of Margarets...

1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Dolores, you answered your own question when you asked what is wrong with going to a psychic because you’re a Catholic and she said it’s against her religion.  That’s like Jackie saying it’s Rosh Hashanah, but what is wrong with eating during the day...um, it’s a violation of your religion.

It seems like all of the people I know who buy into psychics are the same individuals who proclaim themselves to be very religious and are also those who attend regular religious services.  They also don't seem to have any awareness of the dichotomy between the two either.

1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Contorted with a chisel, four times, thank you for pointing that out, Jacqueline Laurita!

Four times and yet she still feels the need to resort to really obvious contouring. I can't see anything except those dark stripes along the sides of her nose every time has a close-up.

48 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

So, is most of Margaret's book going to be dedicated to describing what kind of crappy upbringing she had with Marge, Sr?  Who the hell will want to read a book about Margaret Joseph's life story??  Is this going to be another "raised by wolves" story, a la Bethenny Frankel? 

Pass! I'm no stranger to reading crap but I draw the line somewhere. 

48 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I get that things were much different then (I was a teenager/young adult out in the working world in the late 70's/early 80's, so I am well aware of the differences between then and now), but it seems like Margaret is using that to excuse her and her Mom's behavior.  I'm trying hard here not to slut-shame, but when Margaret admits that she and her mother used sex her looks, aka "feminine wiles" to get what they wanted, it's kind of hard not to.  That type of lifestyle was a choice - there are thousands and thousands of young/middle-aged women who weren't sleeping around during that time period -women who had some self-respect and personal values.

Yeah. I was there too. I'm pretty sure I've got her and her mother's numbers. 

2 hours ago, Wicked said:

I just want Dolores to be happy!

I am getting the feeling that Dolores and David called it quits as a romantic couple early on during filming if not earlier and the story that they were still together as such was just kept up for the sake of story line.

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2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Dolores, you answered your own question when you asked what is wrong with going to a psychic because you’re a Catholic and she said it’s against her religion.  That’s like Jackie saying it’s Rosh Hashanah, but what is wrong with eating during the day...um, it’s a violation of your religion.  What needs to be hashed out?  I am remembering when Kyle Richards said to the psychic in season one of RHBH, “Excuse me, you’re boring me.”  That applies here on so many levels!

This is where my mind goes during the episode, though I did appreciate seeing Jackie’s family celebrate the Jewish new year, although...aren’t Jewish adults supposed to refrain from work during this time? 🤔 (rhetorical question; my mind is made up).    

It's Yom Kippur when we fast, not Rosh Hashanah. And Rosh Hashanah isn't like the sabbath (unless it happens to actually fall on the sabbath)--any sort of cooking is fine, if that's what you meant by "work." If you meant going to an actual job, etc., they didn't show any member of Jackie's family doing that.

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41 minutes ago, SimonSeymour said:

It's Yom Kippur when we fast, not Rosh Hashanah

Oh ok, I actually googled this before I posted about it, and almanac.com gave an answer about Yom when I googled Rosh, so the mistake is mine, and I could have read more carefully, but this was really more of a metaphor—or an analogy—about Christianity and Catholicism and how the First Commandment is a very important part of Christianity, and if Dolores, who doesn’t believe in premarital sex, as a Catholic, cannot understand why listening to a psychic is wrong, I think she is, to put it lightly, quite ignorant.  So while I used the wrong Jewish holiday, and that was my mistake alone, I stand by my point that Dolores sounds foolish.  Teresa and Melissa strike me as quite foolish for this reason as well, but not as bad—they didn’t do a talking head in the episode, hypothetically asking what they could be doing wrong; they have just gone on the record as Catholics.  

I never thought I’d say this, but...do we need Amber back on this show to be Catholic?  She is the only one I can remember who lived her faith.  

Teresa actually sounded smart once, when, in a Bravo blog, she responded to (I think) Jacqueline’s claim that what happened to her was karma.  Teresa said, as a Catholic, she doesn’t believe in karma.  But, as a Catholic, a psychic is ok?  I will never get there from here.  Same goes for horoscopes.  

Jackie and Margaret get a pass from me, because I don’t know exactly what Jackie’s religion dictates, and Margaret keeps her religion (or lack thereof) off the show.  Jennifer, I know she said she is Orthodox (Syrian Orthodox, I believe), at least didn’t vacillate about the psychic.  Maybe she is non-practicing.  More likely, she probably knew it was unchristian and didn’t care.  When Jennifer does a talking head about how she doesn’t see a problem with the psychic, and in the same talking head says that it’s against her religion, I will say she is ignorant as well.  I would far prefer hypocrisy (acknowledging that one is falling short of their own standard) to ignorance.  I think we’re all hypocrites at some points.  I can work with that.  

52 minutes ago, SimonSeymour said:

If you meant going to an actual job, etc., they didn't show any member of Jackie's family doing that.

I saw anyone who is getting paid to do the episode working.  

I just did a lot of learning really quickly about Judaism, and, at least according to Chabad.org, on Rosh, specifically, “it’s a mitzvah to refrain from work.”  They say doing work is a transgression that essentially undoes the mitzvah, and the only work that can be done is “work for food,” and since this definition can be stretched into anything, it is restricted to the work that requires putting food on the table for that meal.  I didn’t see anything about putting on a mic and setting up a camera crew in one’s home as an exception.  

Even though I’m not Jewish (clearly, as I don’t know the rules very well), I grew up with a Jewish grandma, and a lot of Jewish people in my communities, and it’s starting to come back to me how much work is frowned upon during Rosh.  I always took note of the lawyers who would sneak into the office to do work anyway.  Again, I don’t mind hypocrisy—I don’t mind someone who is Jewish working through Rosh—but it is a sticking point to me when someone claims that they are following the rules and then they just do something else because it’s expedient.  

Not to get too meta, but I think that’s the point at which society begins to decay, but then again, this show is probably doing a lot more to decay human civilization than some covert lawyering, and I still watch and comment, so maybe I should judge myself (more than I already do).  🤷‍♀️

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1 hour ago, SimonSeymour said:

If you meant going to an actual job, etc., they didn't show any member of Jackie's family doing that.

Ummm, assuming that Jackie is pulling in a paycheck for appearing on this show I would say filming for it can also be considered performing the duties associated with a job.  I question whether or not that dinner occurred on the actual holiday.  I have thought the same thing about holiday celebrations shown at other housewive's homes in the past.  I have a feeling there is a lot of creative editing regarding timelines.  

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Maybe she is non-practicing.  More likely, she probably knew it was unchristian and didn’t care.  When Jennifer does a talking head about how she doesn’t see a problem with the psychic, and in the same talking head says that it’s against her religion, I will say she is ignorant as well.  I would far prefer hypocrisy (acknowledging that one is falling short of their own standard) to ignorance.  I think we’re all hypocrites at some points.  I can work with that.  

In our culture (and by our, I mean in the Middle East) there are certain things we tend to do and overlook even if it's against our religion, as an example, some people will have a reading of Arabic/Turkish coffee cups , which is kind of like having a tarot card reading. And many people do it just for fun as well.

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Jennifer really needs to get off her insistence that her mom needs a "cordial" relationship with her dad. The woman was abused. Her dad still badmouths her.

You can't expect anyone to just bury their feelings and present themselves for more abuse just to make you feel better, Jennifer. You have a relationship with both parents, be happy with that.

ETA: And the psychic stuff is so ridiculous. These Housewives shows keep trotting it out, and I used to just think it was ignorance. But so many coming out and saying they know it's against their religion and then going in for it turns my stomach.

Edited by renatae
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8 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

The best part of the episode was Evan shutting down the psychic bullshit by saying all Jewish people have a grandparent named Esther.

I have no grandmothers named Esther.

I loved Bill's Speed Racer jacket.

Joe and Melissa go to dinner, they talk about how beautiful the weather is and they wind up in the cellar for dinner...not outside?

The psychic was not bad, some of what she said made it seem real-ish.  Sometimes we want to believe that stuff.

Tre has a boyfriend, Melissa was sworn to secrecy so she blabs it in her TH? The Versace sweat shirt looked like she got it free with a bottle of Versace perfume, you know, gift with purchase, I would have chosen the tote bag, lol.

Delores, I just cannot be mad at her, crying over her dog made me cry.

Is it my imagination but every time I see Jennifer's TH I think the double "C's" Chanel pendant get's bigger and bigger.

I will be having lunch with a friend today and she mentioned that she would be coming from work so not to expect her to be all dolled up, (I assured her my level of dolling up these days is wearing real pants), these women have a glam squad (or they themselves use a trowel to put on their makeup and put on fake hair) get them ready to sit in someone's living room, I can not understand that, so much effort only to turn around and come back home then have to take off all that makeup and hair. OMG, just listen to how lazy I have gotten about makeup, pandemic habits are hard to break.

Maybe I will put on mascara today.

Rosh Hashanah (the Jewish New Year, currently 5781) and Yom Kippur, (the Day of Atonement, we don't do confession, we do it in one day every year) are described as the High Holy Days and they are, On Rosh Hashana I love hearing the Shofar being blown in shul, I love when my entire family has dinner at 2:30pm (because it is the break between daytime services and evening services), I even love when my Israeli cousin sings (terribly) an indiscernible tune in Hebrew.  I loved that Jackie did not even pretend that she cooked let's just hope she ate.

Let's talk about Tre's eating pineapple so she will have a sweet...it just sounds so desperate and stupid.  

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Jennifer's excusal/dismissal of her father's behavior - to her mother's face - left a horribly bad taste in my mouth. 

Speaking of bad tastes (literally!), all the talk of Teresa as some kind of sex machine was not entirely something that has seemed obvious to me as her characterization to date.

Edited by Lassus
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9 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I think Melissa was a freak in the sheets before Tarzan came along

I mean, sure, maybe.  But as a straight boy with a year or three on him, I've found the bedroom bell-curve to be often opposite of public impression.  A bit like old or family money - it's the ones who truly had it who were the most stealth about it.  Not hiding it, but not actually talking about it all the time or playing the part up.  (And of course plenty of exceptions in each case.)

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I find Jackie's and Marge's lips to be extremely distracting. 

Marge looks like she needs an appearance on botched, and Jackie looks like she purposely sticks her lips out away from her face when she talks; like a cartoon character or a caricature. 

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I actually enjoyed this episode.  No big blowups.  I hope Delores is okay.  And I totally got crying over Boo, after holding it together on the solemate thing.

I too loved Margaret’s look at the psychic night.  That slight pink in her ponytail was so pretty.

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Jennifer really has the worst timing. While I appreciate her desire to let her mother know that she acknowledges her feelings of being stuck in an unhappy marriage and experiencing emotional abuse, however,...I think it should have been a private discussion with her mother, not in front of her father, who predictably was dismissive of her feelings and denied everything, and definitely not in front of the kids. 

Edited by SweetieDarling · Reason: wrong word
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1 hour ago, Lassus said:

Jennifer's excusal/dismissal of her father's behavior - to her mother's face - left a horribly bad taste in my mouth. 

 

 

Jennifer's mom did that to Jen too, though. When Jen said her Dad was always there for Jen, her mom straight up said "No he wasn't, he was always working" and told her not to think that positively about her own father which isn't okay. I never understood the complaint of 'working too much'...that's how the bills are paid. My father worked a lot because he cared about us. It's an unfair claim if working less would mean the family would complain about no money and such. She also dismissed/denied her own son's sexuality for decades so it could be learned behavior on Jen's part.

 

I was kind of with Bill about judging the past from today's standards. Fifty years ago in Turkey it would probably considered the best thing you could do for your family is move them to America. Arranged marriages seemed to be the norm and maybe the age difference wasn't uncommon. The mom said she told her parents she didn't want to but did she ever tell her husband or is he just now feeling blindsided? She's entitled to feel forced into a life, sure, but if he didn't know and thought he was doing the right thing by bringing them to America and working a lot (he disputed the claims she wasn't allowed to be in bed sick) to support them it's not that cut and dry. It wasn't the time or way to go about that so I get Jen's Dad being defensive if he was feeling blindsided and attacked for things he thought in his heart was right like coming to America.  I appreciated Bill being the only one to tell Gabrielle to leave. There's zero need to go off in front of the kids and it was clearly upsetting her and Bill was the only one to be the adult and look out for her emotional well being. 

 

Thank you Evan for stating that knowing a Jewish woman having a grandma Ester was an easy guess. I don't believe in mediums. Either this medium was scripted entirely or production fed her the information. Dolores talked about her biopsy on camera before the medium event. Melissa has gone on about her father, etc. Anyone remember when Joe Giudice let a medium go on about talking to a dead family member who he then said wasn't dead and of course everyone was annoyed he wasn't taking it seriously, even though he was exposing how unserious it is (well, it is serious because are grief grifters and I find it sick.) All the flashback clips they do and that didn't make it...

 

Michelle is clearly angling for a spot on the show--- most likely Jackie's spot. Jackie's sister clearly has no desire to be on the show, so Jackie mentioning her and showing the picture of them as kids was a desperate move. Melissa has been telling Joe about the 'you're not getting a homecooked meal anymore' conversation for seasons. Don't they have a nanny now? How much time does Melissa actually spend at Envy? I've yet to see her not go to anything because she was busy working. 

 

Marge can STFU about Jen being tone deaf talking about needing a nanny/housekeeper. Was she? Perhaps. But all of these woman flaunt their designer shit, big homes, now their constant parties/trips during COVID when others are staying home and struggling, so she or any of the woman have room to talk.

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While needing a new nanny/housekeeper may reek of privilege and first world problems, I wish Jen had pointed out to Marge that she was offering a job with housing during a time of high unemployment.

Two ways to look at it, and Marge needs to be shut down. At this rate, she's headed into Dorinda vs Tinsley (RHNY) territory, without the slurring and spittle.

 

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I said EXACTLY what Evan said... "yeah but 90% of Jewish grandmothers are called Esther."  Just like all howives "psychics" this one was a fake. She just reached for and researched more obscure facts. 

Mel & Joe's story lines are fake fake fake.

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5 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

I was kind of with Bill about judging the past from today's standards

This was the only part of the episode that gave me life—he said exactly what I think needs to be said in a lot of walks of life—we can’t judge the past based on the present—simply none of us would pass that test.  What a breath of fresh air. 

I was also really proud of Jen for getting something out of the psychic somehow, and giving her mom a chance to air her side.  Jen is constantly looking to improve herself and to move past negativity.  The only thing I will quibble with is Jennifer’s use of the phrase “her truth” about her mom.  We’re all entitled to our own perspective and opinion, but we’re not entitled to our own truth.  Truth is objective.  I don’t know where this “live your truth” Oprah psychobabble bullshit came from, but it’s erroneous.  When someone takes the stand, they are not asked to tell “their truth, their whole truth and nothing but their truth.”  It’s not subjective.  Sorry. 

5 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

I never understood the complaint of 'working too much'...that's how the bills are paid.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine—the archetype of the wife (it could be a husband, but I always see it as a wife in pop culture) who is so disappointed that her husband is going to miss a social event.  I always want to be like, “bitch, you want him to work less?  Which car would you like to give up?  Which club membership would you like to cancel?  To which small house do you want to downsize?”  It seems like a lot of spouses think the money is made in a vacuum.  No surprise that so many people go bankrupt.  Jen doesn’t fall into that trap—she seems to really appreciate Bill, and I respect that.  Jen seems to have one of the cleanest marriages not just on this franchise, but across the Bravo shows. She has to be careful, because people are going to hate on her for that and want to take her down.  If Jennifer were single or divorced, I bet Margaret would have a whole other view on her.  She wouldn’t be smirking about Jennifer’s great-great massacred uncle.  What kind of psycho smirks about that shit?  And can we imagine if the shoe were on the other foot and Jennifer smirked about the death of one of Margaret’s ancestors??  Hell would hath no fury for the rest of the season.  

I don’t know if Evan is cheating—if I was a betting person, I would definitely put money on the idea that Evan has at least stepped out on the marriage in the past—but I think Jackie does really love him.  I can tell by the way she looks at him and touches him.  I would have shipped them if she hadn’t seemed happier about the prenup than the marriage.  Actions speak louder than gestures.  Two of their kids—I guess the older set of twins—are gorgeous though.  There is a beautiful brunette girl and a very fair blonde boy who could probably model.  Melissa’s son Joey also got much more than his fair share of the good DNA.  

If Jackie is really embracing the Jewish new year to have more fun and better energy, and she actually makes a change, I will applaud that.  It’s long overdue to say the least.  

6 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

Jackie mentioning her and showing the picture of them as kids was a desperate move

Did anyone notice when they showed pictures of the young Housewives this episode, Jennifer looked just like Jackie in her old graduation photo (skinny with long straight blonde hair) and Jackie looked just like Jennifer (pre-makeover) in the photo of Jackie’s family where they zeroed in on her sister?  Uncanny!  It is like that thing where Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln. 

Also, in the flashback pictures of Jen’s dad, I was getting really strong Borat vibes.  

7 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

Marge can STFU about Jen being tone deaf talking about needing a nanny/housekeeper.

She is so awful.  Marge isn’t an independent thinker at all.  She is perpetually shocked that she toes the politically correct party line and other people don’t, but she is making no sense.  The problem—if you can call it a problem—with Jen’s Instagram stories is that she appears to be doing them while she’s intoxicated—that’s it.  Instead of going with the obvious—which really isn’t Margaret’s business either—Margaret said twice that other people were at disadvantages (first she said they are waiting on a second stimulus check and then she said people are unemployed), so...how dare Jennifer go online and offer employment??  Nice argument.  

Marge, platitudes and empathy aren’t going to put food on the table.  Go back to writing your ambiguous book where you were either a slut or a young girl being taken advantage of, depending on what day of the week it is.  Oh, but her ghostwriter is taking them out on a yacht next week where Margaret will read from a “juicy” party of the book—fun!  🙄 So now it’s “juicy” to have been taken advantage of?  Is this dizzy bitch coming or going?  (Hopefully going).  

Margaret learned that she was going to get ahead using her sexuality and she learned to play the game.  These are her words.  I know she has a big trout mouth, but I still don’t know how she speaks out of both sides of it to the extent that she thinks she can say this shit but then Jen has no right to judge her for sleeping with her boss.  Jen didn’t even judge her—she just said “you slept with your boss.”  Why is Margaret so defensive?  Is it because she knows how inconsistent she sounds and is just hoping for platitudes and blind acceptance from people like Melissa who don’t think very deeply and just rubber-stamp whatever doesn’t directly affect them?

Margaret is trying to hide it, but I think she’s anti-traditional family, or at least hostile to the concept.  She told Melissa (completely unsolicited) that Melissa doesn’t need Joe.  Never mind that he is her husband of 16 years and the father of her three children.  That’s a really fucked up thing to say.  Margaret thinks families are disposable, and I think she was shocked that both of Jan’s kids didn’t want to eat out of her hand after she was the talk of the town for humping the contractor under their dad’s roof.  Melissa and Jackie seemed so much more reasonable in that conversation.  

If there is turmoil in the Gorga marriage, I think Melissa is making an effort.  I don’t see a woman walking all over her husband here.  It seems like Joe is trying too.  There is a good chance they’re just faking the whole thing, but I have a feeling that if Melissa were to announce that she and Joe were getting a divorce, Marge would be all for it, and setting Melissa up with guys from New York City that Melissa could walk all over, the way Margaret walks all over Joe.  Her idea of a modern woman seem so warped.  

If Melissa was telling the truth that her mom never talked to her about opposite sex relations, but then shamed her when she was nine and sat in a guy’s lap, I feel really bad for her.  That is such a fucked up message, and I can see where she would internalize it, which she apparently did.  To parents who are too squeamish to talk to their kids about sex?  Man the fuck up ASAP.  If you can’t educate your kids about sex, I don’t think you should have children.  The theme of the episode was neglect—that’s neglect!  

Ugh, on first watch, I didn’t notice Melissa wearing a shirt with “Gucci” printed across the front, in addition to the “Versace.”  In a flashback, Teresa was wearing a t-shirt that said “Balmain.”  Who is making these choices?!?  One of them claims to be a boutique owner, whose marriage is allegedly suffering because she’s so preoccupied by fashion week!  How about Melissa’s leather pants with the holes in the knees?  I can’t unsee that.  Yet she looked so good talking to Joe in her closet in dressy olive green athleisure.  Why not keep it simple, stupid?

OMG, Dolores’s talking head with the green silk top that barely covers her mammaries—I need eye bleach!  In that light, she doesn’t look all that great; she looks kind of seasoned.  It’s time to put the girls away at least a little bit.  Who is Margaret blowing to get that soft lamplight glow in her talking heads?  It makes her look twice as good, which is still nothing to write home about.

I like Michelle as a friend.  She is just pretty and quiet and I like the fact that she is Portuguese, because I like to learn about other cultures.  The fact that she bought into the psychic, even if it was just for TV?  👎

This episode and last episode’s memorial brought to us by Johnny Blue.  How fucking trashy for a liquor company to sponsor a memorial.  How about the whole segment between Joe and Melissa being brought to us by Rails?  I have never seen a Housewives franchise where they frequent the same establishment, year in and year out, so often.  This was above and beyond though.  We had to hear about their party rooms, their drinks, their steaks...this might as well have been a commercial! 💤  No shame in Bravo’s game. 

Ha, Melissa didn’t want “any boys” when she met Joe; she was too busy working three jobs.  Let me just deconstruct that for a second.  First of all, she wasn’t looking for boys, she was looking for a wallet.  When she first came on the show, Teresa told us that Melissa told them at her bachelorette party or something that Melissa said she wasn’t going to be stupid like her sisters, and that she was going to marry money.  Second of all, three jobs?  Would one of those three jobs happen to be working at the little gentleman’s club in Elizabeth where she did admit to having bartended, but allowed Teresa to take all the heat on in season four for suggesting that Melissa worked there, which later turned out to be good information?  And what did happen to her teaching, one of her other jobs (I believe it was student teaching).  Why didn’t she pursue that??  Because she was looking for a boy with money and she found one!  Not looking for any boys, my foot.  What a piece of work this one is (she’s still coming across better than Margaret this season for me though.  Melissa lies and shades the truth, Margaret just slings bullshit, which is worse, at least according to the philosopher Harry Frankfurt, because it shows disregard for the truth).

This show really does remind me of Arrested Development in how committed its players are to avoiding the truth.  It’s starting to become kind of funny in how delusional they are.  Now all it needs is a narrator, commenting dryly on their misdeeds.  That is my early Christmas wish.  

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I'm not Jewish, but, I had a grandmother named Esther.

When Joey was 15 he was probably already annoying 15 year old girls by announcing he needed to rid himself from some of the "poison" but he doesn't think his 15 year old daughter knows about sex?  Sure Joe.  Sure.

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There is nothing happening this season. Except Tre's new bf. I'm seriously bored to tears. I can barely muster the enthusiasm to post, and that's saying a lot. 

Geez, for all the flack she got for it, they'd have been unable to air this season if Tre didn't spread the Evan rumor at the party. Marge "writing her book" is not a storyline for the cameras, nor is Mel and Joe's fake marriage crisis. Dolores is a cool lady and a great foil but she has never brought a major storyline to the table. 

I agree that the issues between Jen's parents are the only real thing about this season - and the most compelling. Not good.

Yes, Jen is tone-deaf, but this is also a show about wealthy, privileged women who wouldn't appear on camera unless they were tone-deaf. I'd be offended by Jen's IG if she was showing her housekeeper cleaning for her while she sat by the pool, or detailed the grunt work the housekeeper did ( a la Rachel Hollis), but far as I can tell, she was offering a paying job to someone to start immediately. In rough pandemic times, that might actually help someone who wants to work and is waiting on a stimulus check. Marge just looks to crucify Jen for any reason. It's tiresome. 

Mel looked really low-rent this ep. Those ripped black pleather pants and the label-whoring shirts don't make her look any younger. She just looks like she's trying to hard - nothing to ENVYYYYY there. 

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I am asking this seriously. Why is seeing a medium against the Catholic religion? TIA

The best (only?) SL this season is Jen's family. Thank you baby Jesus for her!

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11 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Oh ok, I actually googled this before I posted about it, and almanac.com gave an answer about Yom when I googled Rosh, so the mistake is mine, and I could have read more carefully, but this was really more of a metaphor—or an analogy—about Christianity and Catholicism and how the First Commandment is a very important part of Christianity, and if Dolores, who doesn’t believe in premarital sex, as a Catholic, cannot understand why listening to a psychic is wrong, I think she is, to put it lightly, quite ignorant.  So while I used the wrong Jewish holiday, and that was my mistake alone, I stand by my point that Dolores sounds foolish.  Teresa and Melissa strike me as quite foolish for this reason as well, but not as bad—they didn’t do a talking head in the episode, hypothetically asking what they could be doing wrong; they have just gone on the record as Catholics.  

I never thought I’d say this, but...do we need Amber back on this show to be Catholic?  She is the only one I can remember who lived her faith.  

Teresa actually sounded smart once, when, in a Bravo blog, she responded to (I think) Jacqueline’s claim that what happened to her was karma.  Teresa said, as a Catholic, she doesn’t believe in karma.  But, as a Catholic, a psychic is ok?  I will never get there from here.  Same goes for horoscopes.  

Jackie and Margaret get a pass from me, because I don’t know exactly what Jackie’s religion dictates, and Margaret keeps her religion (or lack thereof) off the show.  Jennifer, I know she said she is Orthodox (Syrian Orthodox, I believe), at least didn’t vacillate about the psychic.  Maybe she is non-practicing.  More likely, she probably knew it was unchristian and didn’t care.  When Jennifer does a talking head about how she doesn’t see a problem with the psychic, and in the same talking head says that it’s against her religion, I will say she is ignorant as well.  I would far prefer hypocrisy (acknowledging that one is falling short of their own standard) to ignorance.  I think we’re all hypocrites at some points.  I can work with that.  

I saw anyone who is getting paid to do the episode working.  

I just did a lot of learning really quickly about Judaism, and, at least according to Chabad.org, on Rosh, specifically, “it’s a mitzvah to refrain from work.”  They say doing work is a transgression that essentially undoes the mitzvah, and the only work that can be done is “work for food,” and since this definition can be stretched into anything, it is restricted to the work that requires putting food on the table for that meal.  I didn’t see anything about putting on a mic and setting up a camera crew in one’s home as an exception.  

Even though I’m not Jewish (clearly, as I don’t know the rules very well), I grew up with a Jewish grandma, and a lot of Jewish people in my communities, and it’s starting to come back to me how much work is frowned upon during Rosh.  I always took note of the lawyers who would sneak into the office to do work anyway.  Again, I don’t mind hypocrisy—I don’t mind someone who is Jewish working through Rosh—but it is a sticking point to me when someone claims that they are following the rules and then they just do something else because it’s expedient.  

Not to get too meta, but I think that’s the point at which society begins to decay, but then again, this show is probably doing a lot more to decay human civilization than some covert lawyering, and I still watch and comment, so maybe I should judge myself (more than I already do).  🤷‍♀️

I have never heard the high holiday of Rosh Hashana be called Rosh.

We eat during Rosh Hashana and fast for Yom Kippur. However, for both holidays, there should be no work (schools are closed in NY & NJ during the high holidays and in other parts of the country too, but not many) because they are important holidays, but plenty of Jews do. Jackie does not appear to come from an orthodox or even very conservative family, so I’m sure they play loose with the rules, like many of us do.

I also think that this was a planned scene and not actually filmed during the actual holidays anyway.

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16 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

Melissa, if your daughter is 15, she knows about sex.  She may not have had it, but, she knows about it.

Melissa's daughter hasn't had the sex chat yet and she's 15? Really? Not even with her pediatrician? And now she's going to have "the chat" with her daughter on national TV? 

Edited by BrownBear2012
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12 hours ago, DeeplyShallow said:

I have never heard the high holiday of Rosh Hashana be called Rosh.

We eat during Rosh Hashana and fast for Yom Kippur. However, for both holidays, there should be no work (schools are closed in NY & NJ during the high holidays and in other parts of the country too, but not many) because they are important holidays, but plenty of Jews do. Jackie does not appear to come from an orthodox or even very conservative family, so I’m sure they play loose with the rules, like many of us do.

I also think that this was a planned scene and not actually filmed during the actual holidays anyway.

Rosh Hashana is Rosh Hashana...not Rosh. I live in Virginia and we are a minority here...big time. No schools are ever closed for the High Holidays here. My kids were usually  the only Jewish kids in their classes. Big change for us coming from the Tri State area (NY, NJ and Connecticut). The High Holidays are the most important holidays on the Jewish calendar...there are varying forms of Judiasm. Orthodox being the most "by the book" observant (keeping Kosher, going to Sabbath services every Saturday, etc...), Conservative is next but more relaxed than Orthodox in terms of practice and lastly is Reformed...very free form and relaxed. Jackie and her husband are probably Reform...but may be Conservative. Reform seems to be popular for most families these days. Kids only have Hebrew school once or twice a week as opposed to Conservative and Orthodox where they go three days a week. This seems to fit for families where the kids play sports or have other activities.

Edited by BrownBear2012
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6 hours ago, Lassus said:

Jennifer's excusal/dismissal of her father's behavior - to her mother's face - left a horribly bad taste in my mouth. 

Speaking of bad tastes (literally!), all the talk of Teresa as some kind of sex machine was not entirely something that has seemed obvious to me as her characterization to date.

It seems absurd that people in the 20th century are still having a arranged marriages. I lived in Turkey many years ago and found it, at that time, to be a more modern country in that part of the world and knew many Turkish families where couples met, fell in love and got married. Not saying that there weren't arranged marriages but I just didn't know of any. I feel badly for Jennifer's mother...she's depressed and very unhappy. The kids are not on her side and her husband is old school and has no empathy, from what I've seen. She needs to see a therapist...it would be helpful for her. Bill should spring for it instead of paying for more shoes and gaudy Chanel necklaces for his TAP (Turkish American Princess).

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These days arranged marriage doesn’t always automatically equal forced marriage. In many cases one or both of the participants can and do say no.

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17 minutes ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Conservative and Orthodox where they go three days a week.

It was the worst, 3 days a week!!! 

 

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5 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

 

Jennifer's mom did that to Jen too, though. When Jen said her Dad was always there for Jen, her mom straight up said "No he wasn't, he was always working" and told her not to think that positively about her own father which isn't okay. I never understood the complaint of 'working too much'...that's how the bills are paid. My father worked a lot because he cared about us. It's an unfair claim if working less would mean the family would complain about no money and such. She also dismissed/denied her own son's sexuality for decades so it could be learned behavior on Jen's part.

 

I was kind of with Bill about judging the past from today's standards. Fifty years ago in Turkey it would probably considered the best thing you could do for your family is move them to America. Arranged marriages seemed to be the norm and maybe the age difference wasn't uncommon. The mom said she told her parents she didn't want to but did she ever tell her husband or is he just now feeling blindsided? She's entitled to feel forced into a life, sure, but if he didn't know and thought he was doing the right thing by bringing them to America and working a lot (he disputed the claims she wasn't allowed to be in bed sick) to support them it's not that cut and dry. It wasn't the time or way to go about that so I get Jen's Dad being defensive if he was feeling blindsided and attacked for things he thought in his heart was right like coming to America.  I appreciated Bill being the only one to tell Gabrielle to leave. There's zero need to go off in front of the kids and it was clearly upsetting her and Bill was the only one to be the adult and look out for her emotional well being. 

 

Thank you Evan for stating that knowing a Jewish woman having a grandma Ester was an easy guess. I don't believe in mediums. Either this medium was scripted entirely or production fed her the information. Dolores talked about her biopsy on camera before the medium event. Melissa has gone on about her father, etc. Anyone remember when Joe Giudice let a medium go on about talking to a dead family member who he then said wasn't dead and of course everyone was annoyed he wasn't taking it seriously, even though he was exposing how unserious it is (well, it is serious because are grief grifters and I find it sick.) All the flashback clips they do and that didn't make it...

 

Michelle is clearly angling for a spot on the show--- most likely Jackie's spot. Jackie's sister clearly has no desire to be on the show, so Jackie mentioning her and showing the picture of them as kids was a desperate move. Melissa has been telling Joe about the 'you're not getting a homecooked meal anymore' conversation for seasons. Don't they have a nanny now? How much time does Melissa actually spend at Envy? I've yet to see her not go to anything because she was busy working. 

 

Marge can STFU about Jen being tone deaf talking about needing a nanny/housekeeper. Was she? Perhaps. But all of these woman flaunt their designer shit, big homes, now their constant parties/trips during COVID when others are staying home and struggling, so she or any of the woman have room to talk.

Marge is so jealous of Jen she can't even see straight.  Jen is EVERYTHING that Marge always wanted to be and never will be.  Yeah I said it and I stand by it  lol

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1 hour ago, tvfanatic13 said:

I am asking this seriously. Why is seeing a medium against the Catholic religion? TIA

The best (only?) SL this season is Jen's family. Thank you baby Jesus for her!

Don't judge me but I know this. The Bible specifically states that there were psychics.  They existed. Jesus himself exercised the demons out of the psychics as that was the entity that was giving the people those powers. As I understand it, other Christian denominations abide by the same rule...psychics are not allowed. You're essentially communing with demons that are possessing the person. 

I'll exempt any howives psychics of being demon possessed on the grounds that they're your run of the mill frauds. They have no powers from demons or otherwise. 

Edited by Kdawg82
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Can we please get the contact info for this psychic? A lot of the psychics on the RH franchise are psycho but this one seems legit. 

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1 hour ago, tvfanatic13 said:

I am asking this seriously. Why is seeing a medium against the Catholic religion? TIA

The best (only?) SL this season is Jen's family. Thank you baby Jesus for her!

 

Some random man/woman isn't supposed to be able to access the Souls in Heaven. Not even holy figures like Nuns and Priests. Also in terms of psychics, only God is supposed to know the future, so all those preachers that claim to know when the day the world will end are directly ignoring the part in Revelations where it's said no one will know the day/hour (I don't remember the exact scripture, but it says we won't know.) Anyone who attempts to do so is participating in witchcraft/demonic works and supposedly that type of work was eliminated in Jesus' time.  The Catholic church is strong against it.

 

3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

This was the only part of the episode that gave me life—he said exactly what I think needs to be said in a lot of walks of life—we can’t judge the past based on the present—simply none of us would pass that test.  What a breath of fresh air. 

I was also really proud of Jen for getting something out of the psychic somehow, and giving her mom a chance to air her side.  Jen is constantly looking to improve herself and to move past negativity.  The only thing I will quibble with is Jennifer’s use of the phrase “her truth” about her mom.  We’re all entitled to our own perspective and opinion, but we’re not entitled to our own truth.  Truth is objective.  I don’t know where this “live your truth” Oprah psychobabble bullshit came from, but it’s erroneous.  When someone takes the stand, they are not asked to tell “their truth, their whole truth and nothing but their truth.”  It’s not subjective.  Sorry. 


 

 

I completely agree about "your truth" vs "the truth."   It's probably Jen's Dad's truth that he worked his ass off to bring his family to America for the 'American dream' to give them a better quality of life and now all of a sudden his wife of fifty years is acting like she was a hostage. IMO, it sounded like she was really mad her parents for arranging the marriage but they're most likely not alive anymore so she can't deal with that properly. We've yet to see the father talk badly about the mother to the family, especially the young kids. Jen's mom seemed at even be taking a shot at Bill with her comment about him working at 430am--- which isn't her place. Jen wants the lifestyle Bill's work provides, her mom seemed to be wanting to project onto that relationship now. She actively wants the whole family to hate her husband.

 

 

 

Quote

 

Margaret is trying to hide it, but I think she’s anti-traditional family, or at least hostile to the concept.  She told Melissa (completely unsolicited) that Melissa doesn’t need Joe.  Never mind that he is her husband of 16 years and the father of her three children.  That’s a really fucked up thing to say.  Margaret thinks families are disposable, and I think she was shocked that both of Jan’s kids didn’t want to eat out of her hand after she was the talk of the town for humping the contractor under their dad’s roof.  Melissa and Jackie seemed so much more reasonable in that conversation.  

If there is turmoil in the Gorga marriage, I think Melissa is making an effort.  I don’t see a woman walking all over her husband here.  It seems like Joe is trying too.  There is a good chance they’re just faking the whole thing, but I have a feeling that if Melissa were to announce that she and Joe were getting a divorce, Marge would be all for it, and setting Melissa up with guys from New York City that Melissa could walk all over, the way Margaret walks all over Joe.  Her idea of a modern woman seem so warped.  

 

I thought Melissa seemed to not know what to say at first when Marge said Melissa didn't need Joe anymore. That was out of line and cold. We see how Marge treats her Joe, the way she was screaming at him at the table when Jen said Joe  repeated the rumor. Marge will step over anyone in her way and she's way too invested in other peoples sex lives. 

 

Quote

Ugh, on first watch, I didn’t notice Melissa wearing a shirt with “Gucci” printed across the front, in addition to the “Versace.”  In a flashback,

 

Melissa has worn that Gucci shirt before. I remember because I think it's ugly af. 

 

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