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S12.E14: I Expected a Little Better

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On 4/17/2021 at 12:46 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Or the book “He’s really not into you!”

Or the book "Women who Love Too Much."

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4 hours ago, Spectator said:

Then she rattled off a bunch of reasons why she didn’t have it or wear it, including that she didn’t think it was a big deal and that it didn’t cross her mind.

I was thinking that because Haley spent $20 on his AL ball cap she assumed the bracelet(necklace) Jake gave her was in that same price range and therefore dismissed it (for more reasons than one, but that being one of the reasons) as something not in the forefront of her mind (not that it makes her thinking right...).

It makes no sense to me that a stranger would spend more than a meager amount of $$$ on a gift for the prospective spouse whom he's/she's never met because it would be the "thought" that counts on the gift, not a significant dollar amount.

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8 hours ago, JLaw said:

It also could have been a muni course.  All you need is a shirt and pants to play those

Yeah I want to chime in, as a golfer and a longtime ex-employee at a prominent golf course in my town...it’s not a big deal what he wore. Yes, certain golf courses have rigid dress codes, but he wouldn’t have even been allowed on if it was a course like that. To me, this was obviously a more laid-back event and a more laid-back course. We hosted PLENTY of classy tournaments and PLENTY of fun goofy tournaments where I wouldn’t have blinked twice to see someone come out in this “shtick.” And we all would have laughed about it. I mean, I do think he’s a little bit of a “try-hard” as my teenagers say, but...truly not a big deal, especially if his company is fun and not stiff. 

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On 4/18/2021 at 7:25 AM, MyTwoCents said:

First, I can’t speak for all, but every golf course I’ve been to had a dress code that required a shirt with a collar and jeans were definitely not allowed, long or short. Second, functions outside the work setting is where you get to see employees on a different level, more of who they are as a person. These interactions tell them if the person is someone they’d like to see move up the ladder or not. Who they selected as a spouse is also telling and someone who is a constant joker and can’t respect dress codes or rules because he wants to stand out as the goofball, reflects badly on her and her decision-making skills.

Well perhaps it was rented out for just their company? Also, he did it as a joke - I am sure Jake knows that outfit is not "normal" golf attire. This has turned into the same thing as the onion - he ate one as a JOKE and now suddenly he eats raw onions on the regular. Now it's that he thinks this is acceptable golf clothing.......I don't think this did anything to jeopardize his job based on how tan and buff he was in that photo - it looked more like from his body building days. I don't think it was recent and it seems from what he said everyone thought it was funny, so it probably wasn't a big deal.

Jake cleans up pretty nice on Unfiltered and when he went to meet with Pepper or Cal (I can't remember who he talked to). For all of Haley's issues with his clothes, he looks pretty normal most of the time to me, but I live with someone who loves a funny t-shirt - Mr. ILP was wearing a lime green tee with kermit the frog riding a bike yesterday, so maybe my tolerance for silly clothing is pretty high ;-p

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1 hour ago, LennieBriscoe said:

More famous men than Jake were shown with holes in their shoes!

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/136924/amp

 

I will say that Mr. ILP HATES shopping and breaking in new shoes, so I don't think it's outside the realm of normal for men to put off buying new shoes until it becomes an absolute necessity......

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Jake is an oddball but he's been shown to be an oddball with some heart and with intentions to be married with family.  Haley checked out. The interaction with her mother explained everything about how she got to where she is in her self- centeredness. She reminds me of someone very close to me in my sphere of existence and all the characteristics make me want to barf.  That individual is all about herself. Friendships and family exist to serve her. She's contemporary & on trend down to le' divorce. So chic (sarcasm).🙄

Yes- whatever Jake spent on the infinity bracelet was a symbol that he was *in.*  He would have made it work with a piece of drywall if that's what showed up at the altar.  Haley is not into him and she is unmoving just like her four year old self.  I wonder what her family shelled out over the years trying to get little Haley to be involved in activities.  That sh**'s expensive. I am not into forcing kids to the point of their own emotional or physical distress but there are ways of coaxing them into things and I've had some experience with it. If I fully paid for an activity (as done before) I negotiate with the kid and we get to an agreement. My girls wore tutus over their karate uniforms so they'd get into the car. So if it's hundreds per month or even $50, you try to make it work. Kid won't wear a helmet, get some stickers or something to put on it. Just try anything til the kid comes around.

Jake probably just kept thinking what he could do to his house for the $300-800 he spent on a gift for the woman he now knows is done 1000%.  Maybe it's not a lot but definitely a few bags of gravel for his "oasis."  I'm sure both will find their happy ending eventually. 

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On 4/18/2021 at 12:27 AM, buttersister said:

Haley v. Jake. This display of their worst characteristics seems to have accelerated drunken honeymoon sex. Which for Haley was clearly bad. Very bad.

So she's out of Dodge as far as physical or emotional closeness with Jake. And every one of his insecurities gets exacerbated and here we are.

Braceletgate: Perhaps she thought of it as she did his hat (keeper gift, not for the wedding). Not necessarily what I would have done, but then, I would never go on MAFS.

Either Dr. Pepper or Dr. Viv had a little session with Haley in which Haley was reminded of how she jumped on her Huffy bike and pedaled the hell out of Dodge on many of her past relationships, or dating experiences.  And this was apparently something Haley said herself during her initial interview process.  I think that given that things seem to have really hit the skids after Vegas, the "experts" should have found out from Haley if she bolted after having sex.  

From her own words, she seems to have been very, very hurt by the relationship that ended when she was 20 or 21.  I don't think she's gotten over it or through it and it's negatively impacting her and her dating life now.  She may be unconsciously protecting herself by finding fault and shutting down whenever she gets serious or intimate with someone.  

For Jake, who felt that they were making a connection in Vegas, to have her go extremely cold on him and after they had sex, must have been very confusing.  

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On 4/18/2021 at 3:19 PM, Silver Bells said:

Two months after I met my husband, he gave me a gold bracelet with turquoise stones in it.  It came from the Diamond center in N.Y. and was in a small square box.  I wore it everyday to work and he was thrilled.  He was happy he picked a nice thing.  Men notice these things.  If I hadn’t worn it, he would think I didn’t like it and it would hurt him.  I would have worn it even if it was a rubberband.  She should have put it on right away.  Takes 3 seconds to fasten.  First she had to look see if it was a necklace or bracelet.  Even if it was a necklace, I would have worn it.  Paige wore two.  Smart.

I agree.  I understand that Haley wouldn't have chosen to wear any necklace with a high-necked dress but even going on the assumption she assumed the bracelet was a necklace, she could have tried to wrap it around her wrist as a bracelet or draped it in her flowers.  I would have made the effort to show that you wanted to wear the gift somehow on your wedding day.

Of course, if Haley had planned on doing that, she would have found it was a bracelet. 

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On 4/18/2021 at 9:35 PM, Lindz said:

Jake seems like an attention seeker. I wonder why he's like that. I'd just ignore it. 😅 He looks fine in his normal clothes. Haley picking apart his clothes & his life is beyond ridiculous. It's just giving him what he wants! 😂 WHY SO BOTHERED?!! It's terrible!!

So he wears funny clothes and holes in his favorite shoes.  He might make a fabulous Husband and Father who loves his home.  Would she like a classy guy who drinks or cheats?  Take your pick Haley.  Good things come in crazy packages.  I would get rid of the shoes tho.  Sometimes you have to say goodbye to things.  It’s time.  She doesn’t like the way he dresses.  Maybe he doesn’t like her fuck face all the time.

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12 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Jake is an oddball but he's been shown to be an oddball with some heart and with intentions to be married with family.  Haley checked out.

That pretty much sums it all up.  I don't like Jake's personality and I know some don't like Haley's either, but basically they're just not a good match.

Edited by Crashcourse
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1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

I agree.  I understand that Haley wouldn't have chosen to wear any necklace with a high-necked dress but even going on the assumption she assumed the bracelet was a necklace, she could have tried to wrap it around her wrist as a bracelet or draped it in her flowers.  I would have made the effort to show that you wanted to wear the gift somehow on your wedding day.

Of course, if Haley had planned on doing that, she would have found it was a bracelet. 

If it was a bracelet, she should have put it on pronto.  If it was a necklace, she should have put it on her neck.  Case closed.  Was someone going to come up and tell her the necklace wasn’t appropriate?  Hell no.  The dress was no big deal anyway.  No one would tell a bride something she wears is inappropriate.  She could do what she wants.  She always does anyhow.  She also doesn’t do what she doesn’t want to do anyway.   Where is this scene anyhow?  Where she gets the bracelet?  I can’t find it.  What date?  Please.  Actually what number on the top?

 

Edited by Silver Bells
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10 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

If it was a bracelet, she should have put it on pronto.  If it was a necklace, she should have put it on her neck.  Case closed.

If a guy like (my fave) Henry Cavill was at the altar & Haley didn't have her infinity whatever kind of jewelry on & cast it off with her mom in another state, I wonder if when Henry Cavill-looking guy expressed his disappointment over the jewelry making zero appearances this whole month, if Haley would've been as detached, cold, remorseless & excuse laden with no intent to repair the feelings of the husband as she is with Jake. 

I ALWAYS say the same in relationships- be careful what you look for because it may be ALL that you get. 

 

ETA: Yes Jake has a personality that could be difficult to work with but it's been exacerbated by Haley's side-eyeing and competitive, passive aggressive commenting. If there were a more open bubbly wife, she might have fun with him & roll with it. His weirdness & his faces and closed eyed sighs are all just the 38 year old's minimal bullsh** tolerance coming out. Been there done that. I'm his age & I tell you if I were out there dealing with potential mates now, I might react similarly. 

Edited by Kdawg82
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I agree.  I understand that Haley wouldn't have chosen to wear any necklace with a high-necked dress but even going on the assumption she assumed the bracelet was a necklace, she could have tried to wrap it around her wrist as a bracelet or draped it in her flowers.  I would have made the effort to show that you wanted to wear the gift somehow on your wedding day.

If it was a necklace and she thought it wouldn't go with her dress (it wouldn't), she could have worn it tucked under. Bottom line, girl had options.

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2 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

From her own words, she seems to have been very, very hurt by the relationship that ended when she was 20 or 21.  I don't think she's gotten over it or through it and it's negatively impacting her and her dating life now. 

Perhaps this guy was the first person in Haley's life who didn't put her on a pedestal. The guy was a jerk for not breaking up with her BEFORE he started up with someone else (maybe he did and her ego didn't accept it. I'd pay a lot of money to hear his side!). But, omg, she's screwing up the best years of her life by not getting over it. (I was engaged during college, the guy cheated on me, I gave the ring back and consider myself very lucky - and smart - I didn't marry a cheating loser.) She's wallowing in self-pity and taking it out on every guy. Haley - most everyone is rejected at one point or another. Who cares? Why do you think you are so special that you don't have to deal with life-crap? Get some therapy or go to the batting cages every day and get over it.  You are squandering time and will end up an old, smoldering angry, lonely person.  

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Wait a minute.  Now I’m really confused.  Haley was given the present before the ceremony and before seeing Jake.  She didn’t look to see if it was a bracelet or necklace.  Why then didn’t she look to see what it was exactly before giving it to her Mother?  Is it because she didn’t like it whatever it was?  It had nothing to do with Jake.

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1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

I ALWAYS say the same in relationships- be careful what you look for because it may be ALL that you get. 

Brilliant!!! Did you make that up?  If so you need to trademark it and put it on a t-shirt!  Or a pillow.  I'd buy one for all my friends.

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2 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

 If it was a necklace, she should have put it on her neck.  Case closed.  Was someone going to come up and tell her the necklace wasn’t appropriate?  Hell no.  The dress was no big deal anyway.  

I don't like Haley and I do think she should have at least taken it out of the box, but if it had been a necklace, I wouldn't fault her for not trying to wear it with that dress. I don't think it's fair to say her wedding dress was "no big deal". That is a big deal for a lot of women. When I got married, my dress was the number one thing about my wedding that I cared the most about! If I was wearing that dress, I wouldn't have ruined my look with that necklace, but you can be sure I would thank him effusively at the little post-ceremony champagne meet and greet and explain why I wasn't wearing it (although it's kind of self explanatory with that neckline). I would also have that thing on my neck first thing the next day, or even when we got to the hotel room that night! I definitely would not be shipping it off with my mom to another state.

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I think Haley was not really ready to make a marriage commitment, & it being the infinity symbol freaked her out.

She should've kept it around though, & with things going badly just told Jake she needed more time to determine if wearing that symbol seems appropriate.

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4 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I think Haley was not really ready to make a marriage commitment, & it being the infinity symbol freaked her out.

She should've kept it around though, & with things going badly just told Jake she needed more time to determine if wearing that symbol 

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Just now, Silver Bells said:
6 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I think Haley was not really ready to make a marriage commitment, & it being the infinity symbol freaked her out.

She should've kept it around though, & with things going badly just told Jake she needed more time to determine if wearing that symbol 

That’s it.  She wasn’t ready to marry anyone. 

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22 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

That’s it.  She wasn’t ready to marry anyone. 

And, to marry someone sight unseen was worse.

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On 4/16/2021 at 3:14 AM, Medsed said:

Brianna and Vincent. He does seem to lack appropriate empathetic responses to things that she shares with him.  The light skinned versus dark skinned discussion and the insecurity that went with this was clearly either not understood or he is just cold.  

As someone darker than his mother and sister and possibly lighter than his father, Vincent might get it. It could still be a tough conversation to have in front of cameras. 

Although teen years can be brutal, Bri overcame her insecurities about her complexion at fifteen. Then a dozen years later, she wanted to marry a "tan" man and noted Vincent's complexion was among the things she likes about him.

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6 hours ago, Devvie said:

Brilliant!!! Did you make that up?  If so you need to trademark it and put it on a t-shirt!  Or a pillow.

Thank you. I could be losing a gold mine here but I doubt I'm clever enough to have thought it up. I probably at some point saw it somewhere or other & incorporated it into my vernacular. It's just a thing I abide by in life. I've seen enough shallow estimations of people out there & unwillingness to compromise that it sickens me. 

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6 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

Thank you. I could be losing a gold mine here but I doubt I'm clever enough to have thought it up. I probably at some point saw it somewhere or other & incorporated it into my vernacular. It's just a thing I abide by in life. I've seen enough shallow estimations of people out there & unwillingness to compromise that it sickens me. 

It reminds of the movie Pollyana when she shows her locket to Karl Malden (the minister) with the quote from Abraham Lincoln: "When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will."

This is Haley for sure!

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Haley, here are the husbands you didn't get:

--A man who refuses both having sex and also saying "I love you";

--A man who is expecting a child with his ex-fiancee and who finds your looks beneath him;

--A man who gets upset and insecure when trying something new with you, and who can't  poke fun at himself;

--A man who will tell you to hit the bricks if you pull a "secret group outing without him" stunt, and who wants kids yesterday.

Instead, Haley, you MAFS....

--A man who, as a sweet gesture acknowledging the hopes you and he were investing in this "process," gave you the wedding gift of an Infinity necklace;

--A man who made love to you;

--A man who, though seemingly taciturn, tried to show you that his reality is a world of fun, of quirkiness, of a "Sure, what the hell, let's go for it!" approach to life;

--A man who can roll with your competitive need to best him; 

--A man who takes care of and pride in his body in ways that matter, not with designer shoes or a super-mod haircut;

--A man who issues no commands, demands, or ultimatums. 

And what kind of wife did you bring to Jacob, Haley?

An aloof, humorless, insulting, self-centered, thin-lipped Mean Girl. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by LennieBriscoe
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On 4/14/2021 at 5:08 PM, MyTwoCents said:

Pastor Cal - It isn’t asinine to believe and call out you “experts“ on pairing some of these couples for drama 🙄 It is asinine for you to believe that just because you deny it so forcefully, we will buy that. We don’t believe you.

Looking at some of the really bad pairings, they are either doing it on purpose or are REALLY bad at what they do.  Neither is good.

Edited by lh25 · Reason: typo
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1 hour ago, LennieBriscoe said:

And what kind of wife did you bring to Jacob, Haley?

An aloof, humorless, insulting, self-centered, thin-lipped Mean Girl. 

It just occurred to me that Haley has pretty much screwed herself. Every subsequent guy she meets is going to watch these episodes of her being "an aloof, humorless, insulting, self-centered, thin-lipped Mean Girl". She doesn't bring much to the table that overshadows her personality. Jake would drive me nuts, but there will be women lining up for a shot with him following this show.  It's not fair, but it's a reality. 

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4 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Instead, Haley, you MAFS....

--A man who, as a sweet gesture acknowledging the hopes you and he were investing in this "process," gave you the wedding gift of an Infinity necklace;

--A man who made love to you;

--A man who, though seemingly taciturn, tried to show you that his reality is a world of fun, of quirkiness, of a "Sure, what the hell, let's go for it!" approach to life;

--A man who can roll with your competitive need to best him; 

--A man who takes care of and pride in his body in ways that matter, not with designer shoes or a super-mod haircut;

--A man who issues no commands, demands, or ultimatums. 

This description of Jake made me laugh my arse off.  He is such a catch! 😅

Seriously though, while everything about him thoroughly disgusts me, I understand that some others don't feel the same.  

Haley and her thin lips dodged a bullet.  

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4 hours ago, lh25 said:

Looking at some of the really bad pairings, they are either doing it on purpose are are REALLY bad at what they do.  Neither is good.

I'll take the latter...

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1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

This description of Jake made me laugh my arse off.  He is such a catch! 😅

Seriously though, while everything about him thoroughly disgusts me, I understand that some others don't feel the same.  

Haley and her thin lips dodged a bullet.  

Wow, disgust is a pretty extreme reaction to a guy whose biggest faults are being upset that his bride does not like him and having a quirky obsession with the 80's. What exactly do you find so disgusting?

Now, if you were talking about Chris, I could totally understand!

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I heard a podcast recently that recapped the show and the host and guest said that Haley is a pretty basic woman who wants a pretty basic dude, and that's not Jake and he doesn't want it to be. Like if you scroll through dating apps, there are a million Haleys. Pretty average looking and their profiles will say stuff like "I like to travel and hang out with my friends!" And the male equivalent of that definitely exists but that's not Jake. I think that's really at the root of their incompatibility. She thinks the stuff he likes isn't "cool" and she's operating on a kind of high school jocks/nerds idea of what cool is, and he's fine with who he is and isn't going to change (nor should he).

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14 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I heard a podcast recently that recapped the show and the host and guest said that Haley is a pretty basic woman who wants a pretty basic dude, and that's not Jake and he doesn't want it to be. Like if you scroll through dating apps, there are a million Haleys. Pretty average looking and their profiles will say stuff like "I like to travel and hang out with my friends!" And the male equivalent of that definitely exists but that's not Jake. I think that's really at the root of their incompatibility. She thinks the stuff he likes isn't "cool" and she's operating on a kind of high school jocks/nerds idea of what cool is, and he's fine with who he is and isn't going to change (nor should he).

I think this is so true! They are just such a mismatch. I also think this is the root of why people thought Haley should have been matched with Erik.

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8 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I think this is so true! They are just such a mismatch. I also think this is the root of why people thought Haley should have been matched with Erik.

...and she SHOULD have been to have a great chance at success, whereas with both of those pairings it's "splitsville" whether on DD or near into the future when the cameras are off

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Does anybody know what the bracelet is like or what it is?

I Have to say that tonight is the 1st night that Jake even seems normal. 

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On 4/15/2021 at 4:28 PM, Silver Bells said:

Haley got busted by an expert.  If looks can kill.  She was probably busting everything in her house while crying to Mama.  How DARE Pepper not side with her as a woman.  In front of Jake no less.  Loved it.

 I don't dislike Haley is much as it seems other people do.

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On 4/15/2021 at 7:56 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

She knew absolutely nothing about this guy but had to give him a gift, and chose to give him something that revealed something about herself (Crimson Tide), maybe as an insight into this person he's marrying in a few minutes and knows nothing about.  I actually rather like that approach, especially compared to a trope like jewelry.

I noticed that when Jake looked disappointedly at the hat, he said, "I'm not a college guy."  Any clues about what that meant?

Sure, if he picks out a gift for me, taking into account what I might like and what might make me happy.  There was absolutely nothing personal about what he bought her; he would have bought the same thing whether it was Haley or any other applicant to the show.  The only thing it was was expensive, and he made sure she knew it. 

She didn't put it on for the ceremony because she thought it was a necklace, and it wouldn't work with her high-neck dress.  And she didn't cast it aside--she opened it right before walking down the aisle, and instead of just leaving it in the room she gave it to her mother for safe-keeping.

But there was no reason to take it out of the box because she wasn't going to wear it because it wasn't appropriate with her dress, so it would actually be better to leave it in the box as it is.  It turns out she was wrong--it wasn't a necklace.  But I think her assumption was reasonable and acting on it was reasonable, as well. 

I can't stand the muscles.  I think he looks ridiculous.  And I wonder if that's part of what Haley doesn't find attractive, because she's more of an athlete who might respect muscles that are there for a reason, instead of vanity.

She was drunk.

 

And I assume a requirement for someone whose reason for having children is building a legacy.  Is this a thing?  Building a legacy?  I think Chris said the same thing.  I think it'

 Hailey said she slept with him because she felt she had to... that it was expected. I think she has regretted it.

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13 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Haley, here are the husbands you didn't get:

--A man who refuses both having sex and also saying "I love you";

--A man who is expecting a child with his ex-fiancee and who finds your looks beneath him;

--A man who gets upset and insecure when trying something new with you, and who can't  poke fun at himself;

--A man who will tell you to hit the bricks if you pull a "secret group outing without him" stunt, and who wants kids yesterday.

Instead, Haley, you MAFS....

--A man who, as a sweet gesture acknowledging the hopes you and he were investing in this "process," gave you the wedding gift of an Infinity necklace;

--A man who made love to you;

--A man who, though seemingly taciturn, tried to show you that his reality is a world of fun, of quirkiness, of a "Sure, what the hell, let's go for it!" approach to life;

--A man who can roll with your competitive need to best him; 

--A man who takes care of and pride in his body in ways that matter, not with designer shoes or a super-mod haircut;

--A man who issues no commands, demands, or ultimatums. 

And what kind of wife did you bring to Jacob, Haley?

An aloof, humorless, insulting, self-centered, thin-lipped Mean Girl. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I think you're completely wrong about Haley. And I don't think Jake is any prize.

On 4/19/2021 at 9:23 PM, Kdawg82 said:

Jake is an oddball but he's been shown to be an oddball with some heart and with intentions to be married with family.  Haley checked out. The interaction with her mother explained everything about how she got to where she is in her self- centeredness. She reminds me of someone very close to me in my sphere of existence and all the characteristics make me want to barf.  That individual is all about herself. Friendships and family exist to serve her. She's contemporary & on trend down to le' divorce. So chic (sarcasm).🙄

Yes- whatever Jake spent on the infinity bracelet was a symbol that he was *in.*  He would have made it work with a piece of drywall if that's what showed up at the altar.  Haley is not into him and she is unmoving just like her four year old self.  I wonder what her family shelled out over the years trying to get little Haley to be involved in activities.  That sh**'s expensive. I am not into forcing kids to the point of their own emotional or physical distress but there are ways of coaxing them into things and I've had some experience with it. If I fully paid for an activity (as done before) I negotiate with the kid and we get to an agreement. My girls wore tutus over their karate uniforms so they'd get into the car. So if it's hundreds per month or even $50, you try to make it work. Kid won't wear a helmet, get some stickers or something to put on it. Just try anything til the kid comes around.

Jake probably just kept thinking what he could do to his house for the $300-800 he spent on a gift for the woman he now knows is done 1000%.  Maybe it's not a lot but definitely a few bags of gravel for his "oasis."  I'm sure both will find their happy ending eventually. 

 I understand that part of Hayley. I was a very opinionated child. It does not make you a bed person.

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On 4/19/2021 at 9:23 PM, Kdawg82 said:

Jake is an oddball but he's been shown to be an oddball with some heart and with intentions to be married with family.  Haley checked out. The interaction with her mother explained everything about how she got to where she is in her self- centeredness. She reminds me of someone very close to me in my sphere of existence and all the characteristics make me want to barf.  That individual is all about herself. Friendships and family exist to serve her. She's contemporary & on trend down to le' divorce. So chic (sarcasm).🙄

Yes- whatever Jake spent on the infinity bracelet was a symbol that he was *in.*  He would have made it work with a piece of drywall if that's what showed up at the altar.  Haley is not into him and she is unmoving just like her four year old self.  I wonder what her family shelled out over the years trying to get little Haley to be involved in activities.  That sh**'s expensive. I am not into forcing kids to the point of their own emotional or physical distress but there are ways of coaxing them into things and I've had some experience with it. If I fully paid for an activity (as done before) I negotiate with the kid and we get to an agreement. My girls wore tutus over their karate uniforms so they'd get into the car. So if it's hundreds per month or even $50, you try to make it work. Kid won't wear a helmet, get some stickers or something to put on it. Just try anything til the kid comes around.

Jake probably just kept thinking what he could do to his house for the $300-800 he spent on a gift for the woman he now knows is done 1000%.  Maybe it's not a lot but definitely a few bags of gravel for his "oasis."  I'm sure both will find their happy ending eventually. 

 I absolutely don't agree with you on your feelings about Haley. I think you may have her confused with the person that is close to you.

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Basically I think that Haley and Jake were just mismatched. I also think then of Jake was so wonderful he wouldn't still be single at almost 40. I think he's odd, but maybe nice.  I think he's really odd.

On 4/17/2021 at 2:05 PM, JocelynCavanaugh said:

The thing people seem to forget is that Jake was never into Haley, either. He’s said it more than once. When asked directly last week, “Is Haley the one for you?”, he didn’t say yes. He deflected and put it back on her. If Haley did everything right, she would be acceptable to him. (This from a guy who tells her that her own opinions are wrong.)

This is all about his butthurt ego. Maybe he can “laugh at himself” when it comes to dressing like a clown at professional events (what a catch! The “embarrassing one”!), but not when he suspects, however irrationally, that someone isn’t giving him his rightful credit for that oh-so-relatable sense of humor or his big, boring muscles or the sneering indifference he believes to be “maturity.”

Haley has, in fact, smiled, laughed, and appeared to have fun many times on this show. Maybe it was “fake” — Lord knows this girl can’t do anything right — but she absolutely tried. You’d have to be having mini-strokes all season not to see it.

And maybe it’s just my culture (America, c. forever), but one of the cardinal rules of gift-giving etiquette is that when you give a gift, you let it go. It’s been given. You don’t have the infinite right to whinge about how it’s used or not. Not even if you sneak an infinity symbol into said gift. That’s not a loophole in Georgia. 

An $800 bracelet in necklace’s clothing, given to a stranger, is a bit of a white elephant in any case. Perhaps Jake meant it as a sincere gesture. I have no idea. But if so, it’s another case of being completely out of touch with the newfangled theory sweeping the nation that women are human beings, equal to men, not groveling semi-people who must forever kiss the feet of any man who drops an expensive trinket in their laps.

I could watch every second of footage from this season, but I will never see Jake as an innocent victim of this wicked woman who deliberately went on the show to fuck with him. That’s literally not what happened. But the most shocking thing has been how well his super-obvious manipulations have worked on so many. I’m sure he will find the right woman soon enough. She’ll be a simpering doormat with no desire to be her own person. It’ll be fantastic. 

 Finally somebody I absolutely agree with. I do not understand all the Haley hate.  And I really don't understand all the love for oddball Jake. He may be a nice man really, but he is no match for her, and I don't see him as so wonderful or even nice.

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On 4/16/2021 at 5:14 AM, Medsed said:

I can’t sleep...lol...so....

Clara and Ryan   It is becoming more clear with each passing episode that Ryan needs to speak privately to a counselor and figure out why he cannot fully offer himself to his partner.  Now, this could be production deciding they need some drama for this couple or it could be the reality that Clara is stuck with in this marriage.  Time will tell.  Personally, I could not live with a marriage like this one....

Brianna and Vincent. He does seem to lack appropriate empathetic responses to things that she shares with him.  The light skinned versus dark skinned discussion and the insecurity that went with this was clearly either not understood or he is just cold.  Her legitimate fear of complications during pregnancy is being skimmed over by him IMO and that is quite callous.  I think he has a big ego and wants a very specific image of himself to always be foremost. If she is good with it all so be it...but in five, ten, fifteen years...IDK

Virginia and Eric The look on his sister-in-law’s face said it all.  Yes, marriages do not all look the same on the inside but the couple needs to be in agreement. I find it hard to believe that unless you go in with the expectation that this is to be an open arrangement most partners would be alright with their spouse passing out drunk anywhere, but especially with their opposite sex friends, for the night. I also think that Virginia needs to realize that trust is generally earned in the lead up to marriage and that because she is drinking to excess, refusing to bend where that is concerned, and admitting that she is not ready to put her husband first when it comes to her time she has in no way given anyone any comfort in that department. Eric on the other hand, needs to learn to express himself without demands and ultimatums.  For example, she wants to pass out at her friends..how about, I understand that you trust these people, that you have done this in the past, but I barely know you and really do not know them at all.  Can we make it a priority to both commit to the idea that we sleep at home, that if we are too out of it from partying we get an Uber or call each other for a ride, that we lean on one another to make this situation work so that it doesn’t cause a problem while we build this foundation?   No ultimatums and no threats of things being over.  I hazard to say that Virginia would not be ok with Eric exhibiting many of the behaviors she has....she seems to want stability and strength but has none to offer.

Hayley and Jake What a mismatch.  She is not ready to be a wife.  She is so hurt by a relationship that she hasn’t been able to move on from...she needs help with getting past that.  He also seems to have some underlying hurts but I think he is more ready than she is to move on at this point.  One glaring thing that stood out to me was her descriptions of her behavior at four.  I am currently parenting my four year old grandchild (she has been in our custody since 7 months old give or take) and previously parented three of my own.  Who lets a four year old dictate these things?  Seriously, mine would have put on the helmet, would have taken their swim lesson or would have faced a consequence of some sort. Time out, sitting in the car with me, not at poolside on a towel, going home and straight to bed time, no treats for a period...something.  But, no child should be the one choosing in these instances.  And please, what is the point of saying if they start something they have to follow through if you clearly are allowing them, even at four, to follow their own rules, to be a spoiled brat, and to not participate fully.  This special flower sort of mentality that some parents have breeds adults like Hayley to some extent. She was so special that this other guy didn’t see it and left her at 20??  How dare he!!  IMO this is why she cannot get past it...unpleasant things happen, we have to do things that we don’t always want to do, it’s called life.    I understand that Jake is hurt by the fact that she didn’t even take the time to see that the gift was a bracelet.  I also understand that after he told her it was an issue for him he might have expected her to rectify the situation.  That said, she is so checked out that he needs to lower his expectations.  I also get the impression that because she is so done he sees no point in engaging or putting himself out there any more. He probably feels like she picks everything apart because she is unhappy so I have no desire to give her more ammunition.  Please note, I do not think Hayley is a bad person...I think she is a work in progress and with some good therapy she could change certain patterns and with the right person...someone very, very similar to herself in taste and blandness...yes, she’s more vanilla than say pistachio, pistachio...she could be a great wife.  Work first, though.  I also think Jake probably was less inclined to go out sort of looking for someone. Hopefully, he finds love. He’s not a creep, he’s not a big baby, he is equally unmatched, strongly desired for this to work, and wants a partner.  I hope for the best for these two as the move on away from each other.

 As for Hayley and Jake, there's a reason why Jake is still single at almost 40. He is not a great catch.

 Eric owns his home and Virginia will not move into it. That is stupid. She wants to rent another place.  Her views  of marriage are juvenile. She is not ready.

Edited by antfitz
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9 hours ago, antfitz said:

Does anybody know what the bracelet is like or what it is?

In the quick glance we had it looked like a silver infinity sign, no gem stones, ($800, pffft, right), and to Haley's defense it was packaged like a necklace and when it comes to bridal jewelry, it is a personal choice based on the dress style so I understand why Haley did not wear the necklace for the wedding.  Now on the other side of that coin, she could have acknowledged the gift at the wedding and she could have put it on during the honeymoon. 

Maybe she will wear or return it on decision day.

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3 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

In the quick glance we had it looked like a silver infinity sign, no gem stones, ($800, pffft, right),

I looked a little, and couldn't find a silver infinity bracelet selling for anywhere near $800.  A bracelet seems like an odd choice.  I don't wear them, I know other women who don't either.  We do wear necklaces, seems like that might have been a "safer" choice.

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11 hours ago, antfitz said:

I understand that part of Hayley. I was a very opinionated child. It does not make you a bed person.

Absolutely not.  I know some jerk kids who turned out pretty nice as adults. I just don't like her that much as an adult but I get that she's incompatible with Jake. With a different guy, maybe more of her positives would show through.  I'm giving her a bit of a pass as a Pearl Jam fan. But IMO she's still about 60/40. My husband doesn't mind her at all.

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I couldn't believe Clara writing a college admissions length essay to Ryan for their love letter exercise and then seeing her awkwardly open mouth crying and her droopy fake eyelashes collecting tears over Ryan's half assed scripted letter.  Clara is so used to being treated like crap or used by guys for sex that someone marginally better at best is a beacon of hope and love for her.  I think she clearly needed therapy for the trauma from her past relationships rather than going on this show.  One sided foreplay isn't worth the lock jaw or heartbreak- she needs to leave him.  Clara looks at Ryan obsessively and Ryan breaks eye contact and looks away; if it doesn't end on decision day it will end eventually.  

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Jake has his quirks for sure and he’s not a great a conversationalist but Hailey is just awful. She’s trying too hard to justify her dislike of him. She thinks she’s way too good to be married to someone who wears cut-offs golfing. Lighten up girl, you’re really not that amazing. 

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On 4/22/2021 at 6:34 AM, lh25 said:

I looked a little, and couldn't find a silver infinity bracelet selling for anywhere near $800.

We don't know that it is not white gold or platinum just because it appears silver. I believe him and that he had strong intentions as this began.

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Both of them are odious, but unless Jake left the price tag on the necklace/bracelet  ala Minnie Pearl's hat, how was Haley know that it was so pricey...

Show us the receipt, Jacob Harder...literally.

Even better the return receipt....

We know you have a bot to ping every time your name comes up...waiting...

 

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On 4/22/2021 at 9:34 AM, lh25 said:

I looked a little, and couldn't find a silver infinity bracelet selling for anywhere near $800.  A bracelet seems like an odd choice.  I don't wear them, I know other women who don't either.  We do wear necklaces, seems like that might have been a "safer" choice.

Someone posted a link to one upthread that was $799. It could be platinum, not silver, which would make it much more expensive.

I think a bracelet was actually pretty smart - it would go with any style bridal gown and would be unobtrusive enough for regular wear. I'm not faulting anyone for saying it's not their style but I don't see it as an odd gift.

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56 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

We don't know that it is not white gold or platinum just because it appears silver. I believe him and that he had strong intentions as this began.

He has to know that viewers will be able to call him out on this if he's lying, so I think it must be what he paid for it.

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