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S36.E17: True Lies

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An "introverted" player makes a big, public announcement about their future, as the Finals draw near. TJ shows up at Headquarters with a shocking request. Two players battle it out in the final elimination of the season.

Airs April 7th.

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❤️ @ Kam making Leroy a sandwich and offering to cut the crust off

... and a hall brawl? Again?

Edited by AntFTW
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I wish it was like the Bachelorette episode when that flew off 8n the helicopter and left that guy on the glacier.   Loved Fessy alone down in the crater because of his own arrogance.   Amber, OMG, that was painful to watch.  

Hate Fessy.  Used to like Kaycee but hate her too...and did she already blow the half mil she won on Big Brother already, she was talking like she was broke.  

I guess I am rooting for CT. 

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Oh so glad Fessy and Kaycee are partnered now, so I have one team I can unreservedly root against in the final. I pray they come in fourth by a lot.

I won’t mind whomever wins as long as it’s not Fessy or Kaycee.

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1) I'm so pissed that they had a SECOND hall brawl. WTF? Why? That makes absolutely no sense! When Fessy nominated himself, I was thinking"well, at least it's not gonna be a hall brawl because they just had one. I hope it's something that's not 100% brawn." Then they show the hall and I'm like "WHAT THE %$^&?" 🤬 That ruined the episode for me.

2) Kam was saying that her winning makes her safe and Leroy safe... so I thought "ok, so Kam is clearly not throwing Leroy into the Crater so VOTE. HIM. DOWN."... even though I'm actually rooting for him to win.

3) Kam could have gotten Leroy as a partner if she followed through with that plan. Fessy has made it clear throughout the entire season that the only partner he ever wanted was Kaycee. The only person Fessy has ever considered worthy enough for him was Kaycee. Had Kam followed through with sending herself and Cory down, and Fessy won, Fessy would have picked Kaycee. Leroy would have picked Kam.

-

Prediction for the Final: There may be an elimination in the final, similar to what they did last year, and that elimination winner has a chance to switch partners in the middle of the final.

Lastly, I'm rooting for CT and Amber or Nany and Leroy. I don't see Nany and Leroy winning given their performances in past finals but we'll see. They may have improved.

Edited by AntFTW
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I so wish it would have been anything but a hall brawl. I think Kyle could have taken Fessy out on most other things. Fessy was harmless last season but now.... his level of arrogance is intolerable.

I think Corey is basically a good dude so I feel bad for him that Kam went along with that hairbrained plan for even a minute. Also I fear if push comes to shove in a final she is going to prioritize Leroy over her own partnership. I get it, but it just sucks for Corey. 

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46 minutes ago, angelamh66 said:

I so wish it would have been anything but a hall brawl. I think Kyle could have taken Fessy out on most other things. Fessy was harmless last season but now.... his level of arrogance is intolerable.

I think Corey is basically a good dude so I feel bad for him that Kam went along with that hairbrained plan for even a minute. Also I fear if push comes to shove in a final she is going to prioritize Leroy over her own partnership. I get it, but it just sucks for Corey. 

It should have been anything other than a hall brawl. I agree that Kyle would have had an even shot in just about any other elimination. I didn't think it was gonna be a hall brawl considering they literally just had one. They haven't done the same elimination games back-to-back ever... like I don't recall any season where they've done that. So why now?

I would have been greatly entertained if Kam actually went through with that plan of sending herself and Cory down. As fucked up as it might be, it would have been AWESOME! Once she found out Leroy was safe, she had no real reason to go through with it.

Edited by AntFTW
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I can't believe how quickly Fessy went from being tolerable to one of the most unlikeable people on the entire Challenge. I've rarely wanted someone to lose so badly. I really hope he gets some self-awareness and changes if they are going to keep inviting him back. 

Leroy's plan to screw over Cory was so stupid. I'm glad Kam backed out of that. 

I hate Hall Brawl. It seems like it's just a matter of time until someone gets their neck broken. 

I like Amber, but she did suck at that daily. I was embarrassed for her.

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Kaycee: We're an unstoppable partnership, Leroy. You're my ride-or-die. Now let's run this final together.

Also Kaycee:

These-Memes-Of-Agatha-Winking-In-‘WandaVision-Are-So-Relatable.jpg

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Damn I felt bad for Kyle. His finger looked so painful. Fessy always does too much at physical eliminations because he has to prove that he's such a big man. Didn't almost snap Jay's neck in an elimination once? Like he was brutal against the kid considering he outweighed him by a lot. Fessy has really shown his ass this season. He really does think he's the shit and all women, except for one special one, will drag him down and won't allow him to "compete". Yet his idea of "competing" just seems to be throwing people around. I used to think he was pretty but dull but this season, jeez, dude.

Sorry that Kyle got screwed over but I'm happy that Cory didn't end up being sacrificed for Leroy because that was bullshit. I just wish Kyle had revealed the plan before he left. This desperation and shadiness with Leroy is not a good look.

Even if she was working on Amber B to get her to vote in Fessy, I liked that Kam called the guys out for the bullshit way they talk about the women. It's been like this since the Island.

I have never seen anyone flame out so badly as Amber B did at the first checkpoint. I'm bad at math but that was hard to watch. I did enjoy Fessy being stuck in that volcano as everyone left him behind. I bet Aneesa would have figured out that puzzle. I also have to give Nany her props for figuring out the math puzzles and keeping up with Kam.

Finally, we're at the final. Thank god. I need this to be over. I think the only person I'm rooting for in this final is Cory. Anyone but Fessy at least please.

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13 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Damn I felt bad for Kyle. His finger looked so painful. Fessy always does too much at physical eliminations because he has to prove that he's such a big man. Didn't almost snap Jay's neck in an elimination once? Like he was brutal against the kid considering he outweighed him by a lot. Fessy has really shown his ass this season. He really does think he's the shit and all women, except for one special one, will drag him down and won't allow him to "compete". Yet his idea of "competing" just seems to be throwing people around. I used to think he was pretty but dull but this season, jeez, dude.

That was Rogan that went too hard on Jay for fooling around with Dee after Dee got Jay involved in their mess.

Fessy killed me with that "I haven't been able to compete all season" shit.

My face:

tenor.gif?itemid=15543493

Excuse me? You've done your elimination. You've competed in EVERY. SINGLE. CHALLENGE. What the 🤬 do you mean you haven't completed? You haven't sat out a single challenge. All you've done is compete... and lose.

Edited by AntFTW
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Fessy is the worst. The other dudes have some redeeming qualities, all in all, like self awareness, humor, not taking themselves too seriously, but Fessy manages to be smug, arrogant and dull. Kaycee, who I've liked in the past, is not nearly as likeable as she used to be, but she's a good competitor.

I felt for Amber. Maybe she really is that bad at math, or she panicked, but I have issues visualizing and holding info in my head like that. I could do those problems easily if I could write them down, but doing them in my head, not so much. Just one of those things.

I don't like Kyle, or his neon teeth, but I'll miss the humor.

Kam has really grown on me this season. I'm rooting for her, CT, Leroy, or Amber. I've never really liked Nany that much but loved her commentary on Fessy tonight, lol. 

And Kam calling Fessy out, awesome. Yeah, she had her reasons, but she wasn't wrong either.

Edited by CrazyDog
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18 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

That was Rogan that went too hard on Jay for fooling around with Dee after Dee got Jay involved in their mess.

Oh yeah! I totally forgot that was him. Thanks for the correction. Both walked around thinking they were hot shit for taking out someone so much smaller than them.

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Fessy: I'm not used to coming in last.

Me: I don't see why not. You came in last on the previous final. This seems to be a recurring thing for you,

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Well . . . if nothing else, Fessy has stepped up to become the biggest pain in the ass on the show. I hesitate to use the term "villain," mostly because I can't tell if he genuinely believes the bullshit he dumps out. When he talks about being introverted and/or humble, my mind goes here. That's a fun movie if you haven't seen it. Apparently, YouTube won't let me embed the clip here.

I'm thinking "eight times nine" would send any Big Brother alumni to tears. Poor dumb Amber.They didn't even let her skip the first checkpoint. She had to do the walk of shame with Fessy, and that was hysterical.

But, of course, even when Fessy gets thrown into the Crater, he gets to destroy Kyle in one rush of Hall Brawl. And it was supposed to be best-of-five. Honestly, Fessy is such a d-bag, he would've swept Kyle's leg if he had the space to do it.

This could have been a great season. I'm blaming the decline on a lot of players having to leave early. The finalists are good in most ways. Most are seasoned veterans. Seven of eight are people of color; a perfect eight if you throw in "Masshole." Whether it's one person or a pair winning the handsomest of rewards, it's anyone's game. Except for Amber, given how it looked like she was puking up a lung.

  ETA:

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

Kaycee: We're an unstoppable partnership, Leroy. You're my ride-or-die. Now let's run this final together.

Also Kaycee:

These-Memes-Of-Agatha-Winking-In-‘WandaVision-Are-So-Relatable.jpg

#KayceeAllAlong ?

Edited by Lantern7
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Earlier this season, I made some comments on Theresa's game and how she plays a scared game basically because she's a half-ass alliance member. She's never willing to make the big moves and burns votes to stay in everyone's good graces. People will align with her but when the roles are reserves, Theresa doesn't show up. I dubbed Theresa a CYA player, a cover-your-ass player.

After this episode, I would also dub Kaycee a CYA player, but not in the same way. Kaycee's never willing to make the hard choices. Kaycee plays a clever and effective game. She gets other people to make the hard choices for her. Kaycee wants to stay in everyone's good graces and not ruffle any feathers. She tells Fessy if he wants her as a partner, nominate himself into elimination, win, and steal her.... which means Kaycee keeps her hands clean by not actually having to make the choice between Leroy and Fessy, and also makes it look like a favor when she acts on Fessy's request to make him the house vote.

Additionally, I have such a newfound respect for Kam and Kaycee's game. I don't think anybody has played a better social game this season than Kam and Kaycee, and I don't anyone has played a better political game than Kam. The last time I felt proud about a player's political game was Wes on Exes 2, at least up until Johnny and Nany re-entered the game and changed the entire dynamic.

Edited by AntFTW
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2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

1) I'm so pissed that they had a SECOND hall brawl. WTF? Why? That makes absolutely no sense! When Fessy nominated himself, I was thinking"well, at least it's not gonna be a hall brawl because they just had one. I hope it's something that's not 100% brawn." Then they show the hall and I'm like "WHAT THE %$^&?" 🤬 That ruined the episode for me.

 

There's been at least 3 Hall Brawls if not more.

Every time they do it, there is usually a big mismatch in weight and size.  It can't be an accident.  The producers seem to deliberately go for the Hall Brawl whenever there's a bigger vs. smaller matchup or the chance of it.

For all we know, they could have winked at Fessy and that is why he volunteered.

In this case, Fessy would have a big advantage against any guy.  He's the size of an NFL TE, used to firing out and leading with the helmet and shoulder pads to hit people, only in football games, he's going against guys closer to his size and strength.

 

Maybe logistics limited the number of types of eliminations they could have.  But I think a more likely reason is they like Fessy for whatever reason.  They've given him a lot of air time this season and maybe his cockiness and villainy makes the producers think he could be the next Bananas.

Whatever the case, there is no transparency at all whatsoever and they don't pretend to be trying to create fair competition.

A long time ago, they used to have a spinning wheel so the type of elimination wouldn't be determined by producers off screen.  In fact, they're not even pretending that the type of elimination was chosen randomly.  They don't say for instance "we had a drawing in the office and this one came up again!"

For one thing, the Double Agents wouldn't be able to decide whether to go compete themselves or send someone else because they couldn't tell what the elimination would be until they spun the wheel.

 

As for the political shenanigans, Leroy and Cam better win this because either way they were betraying someone so other challengers would be wary of forming an alliance with them in the future.  Supposedly Leroy is done after this one.  But if Cam comes back, people might remember what she did to Kyle and what she would have done to Cory.

However, these guys know whom they're friendly with.  They probably calculated that Cory would have more friends or bigger alliances in future seasons than Kyle would.  Could also be that they think Cory would run the Final more competitively as Cam's partner, though I don't know how he fares in distance.

As for the other teams, I think Kaycee and Amber may actually be in better condition to do an endurance challenge than Cam or Nany.

Of course Amber can't do math.  She's all weepy about being disrespected.  Well, you couldn't do a math equation that a second grader could solve, honey.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, angelamh66 said:

I think Corey is basically a good dude so I feel bad for him that Kam went along with that hairbrained plan for even a minute. Also I fear if push comes to shove in a final she is going to prioritize Leroy over her own partnership. I get it, but it just sucks for Corey. 

That is why I have always liked Corey.  He seems like a decent person for the most part and he always seems to be the underdog.  That's why he would be the guy I would like to see win.

2 hours ago, Jess14 said:

I can't believe how quickly Fessy went from being tolerable to one of the most unlikeable people on the entire Challenge. I've rarely wanted someone to lose so badly. I really hope he gets some self-awareness and changes if they are going to keep inviting him back. 

 

I don't recall him being like this on Big Brother.  He and his ex-girlfriend were the only two people in their alliance that I actually liked (He was in an alliance with Bayleigh, Christopher, Blockstar, and Scottie so it is not too hard to see why I did not mind him because that alliance was dog crap).  But on here, oh boy is he unlikeable. 

 

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12 minutes ago, BK1978 said:
3 hours ago, angelamh66 said:

I think Corey is basically a good dude so I feel bad for him that Kam went along with that hairbrained plan for even a minute. Also I fear if push comes to shove in a final she is going to prioritize Leroy over her own partnership. I get it, but it just sucks for Corey. 

That is why I have always liked Corey.  He seems like a decent person for the most part and he always seems to be the underdog.  That's why he would be the guy I would like to see win.

I didn't like Cory before season 35. In season 35, he really showed that he has matured. He played a good game this season even with his high turnover in partners. Before, he had this guns-blazing hot head attitude that I just didn't like. Maybe it's because he has children now but him and Nelson had the same level of this kind of terrible attitude like "I'm coming for everybody" when they had this "young buck" alliance. Nelson seems to have stayed in that mindset while Cory matured. I liked Cory last season. My opinion of him changed because of last season.

I'm ok if Cory wins. I'm on the "anybody but Fessy" bandwagon.

Edited by AntFTW
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Amber claims to have dyscalculia, so I can understand why she flamed out on the math problem.  I wish they would stop with the math problems.  They used to have far more interesting puzzles.  The math problems are pure laziness on production's part.

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I actually like that there are some math problems--just because, yeah, you have to know some basic math. As a person who paid attention in school, that just seems fair (although I would get destroyed on every other part of the game).

I didn't hate Fessy before but he is unbearable now. What a whiner. Wasn't it Fessy who played dirty against Nelson? He's going to hurt someone permanently at this rate. Nany's anti-Fessy statements have made me like her more.

I dislike the hall brawl thing. It does look like a request for injuries. I want shows that have interesting competitions but not people risking real injury.

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7 hours ago, aghst said:

There's been at least 3 Hall Brawls if not more.

By my count, they have had six eliminations total, including variations on a theme:

--Hall Brawl (with/without a ball. Fessy def. Nelson, Amber B def. Amber M, Amber B def. Big T, Fessy def. Kyle)

--Fire Escape (Natalie def. Ashley, Leroy def. Jay, Big T def. Aneesa)

--Dead Ringer (with/without a puzzle. Kam def. Ashley, CT def. Josh, Darrell def. Devin)

--Tethered together (with/without rings. Devin def. Wes, Kaycee def. Theresa, Cory def. Darrell )

--Hold onto rings as long as you can (Kyle def. Joseph, Nany def. Gabby*)

--Throw stuff through other stuff (with/without a puzzle. Aneesa def. Tori, Josh def. Mechie)

By my count, that's 18 match-ups, meaning we've seen an average of three match-ups per challenge, except the "brute strength rings" challenge and "throw stuff through other stuff" challenges were only twice (*I don't remember if Nany and Gabby were tethered together, but I know Kyle and Joseph weren't), and Hall Brawl four times.

There were clearly production issues with the eliminations. Maybe with COVID restrictions, they weren't allowed to bring in local crews. I'm remembering the challenge last year where Kyle defeated Josh, which involved two used cars. Or Take Shelter, which was a shack, coils of rope, barrels and huge rocks. So they had to limit their elimination challenges to what production could set up themselves (I could've sworn the Cory/Darrell race was through the disassembled Hall Brawl set).

After how epic the daily challenges have been, there's a reason elimination feels like summer reruns.

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It's clear that some of these challengers do not watch past challenges. When TJ shows up and takes one of your partners, that means the other partner has to rescue them. This is not rocket science. Kudos to Kam for getting it done first. I was surprised and happy for Nany for coming in second. I wonder just how long Amber B was at checkpoint 1. Did they show her there that long for entertainment purposes? Because the run was 5 miles. Even after they got out of the volcano, they still showed Kam leading Cory. 

I'm not a Fessy fan. At all. He has complained all season that he can't compete and his partners suck. He did win enough with Anessa though, to keep himself safe. I'm so big and bad, I'm going to get stolen a lot. If you want to control your fate in the game, go down to elimination and get the partner you want. Especially so close to the final. 

I like the way the final teams ended up. Nany and Leroy is a good team. Kam and Cory are super strong. I do think that Kam is stronger than Kaycee though. Fessy and Kaycee don't scream super team to me the way it does to Fessy. I think Kam and Fessy would be a super team, physically, but they wouldn't work that well together. I am ok with any team winning except for Fessy and Kaycee. 

I feel and for Kyle, his finger anyway. Kyle plays a sneaky game, he knows what's up. It's too bad they made all these wheelings and dealings before they knew Fessy would throw himself in though. 

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10 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

Nany and Leroy is a good team.

We’ll see when/if they get to a puzzle.

Edited by AntFTW
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5 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

We’ll see when/if they get to a puzzle.

hahahahhaha. Let me clarify that they are a potentially unproblematic team, least likely to argue during the final. 

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Just now, LaurelleJ said:

hahahahhaha. Let me clarify that they are a potentially unproblematic team, least likely to argue during the final. 

That, I agree. Lol

I can see the other teams arguing.

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Also, Kaycee didn't pick Fessy when she won her gold skull. Were they worried about getting stolen again? Or ws Kaycee looking out for her social game, knowing that the had both the protection of Kam's alliance and the big brother alliance? If Fessy was that cocky, he would have figured that they would dominate the daily challenges and avoided getting stolen, the way that Leroy and Kaycee dominated the daily challenges (with the assist from Kam of course). 

Edited by LaurelleJ
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24 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

I like the way the final teams ended up. Nany and Leroy is a good team. Kam and Cory are super strong. I do think that Kam is stronger than Kaycee though. Fessy and Kaycee don't scream super team to me the way it does to Fessy. I think Kam and Fessy would be a super team, physically, but they wouldn't work that well together. I am ok with any team winning except for Fessy and Kaycee.

Agree, I also like how they ended up. Based on previous challenges, here are my thoughts as to who is the strongest going into the final:

Kam/Corey - both have endurance, both can do puzzles, can they eat nasty stuff?

CT/Amber - both have shown endurance, CT is a puzzle ninja and can eat nasty food

Kaycee/Fessy - both have endurance but I don't think either of them are great with puzzles, can they eat nasty stuff?

Leroy/Nany - have shown some endurance, neither can do puzzles, and neither can eat nasty stuff

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7 hours ago, lilabennet said:

I wish they would stop with the math problems.  They used to have far more interesting puzzles.  The math problems are pure laziness on production's part.

At least this math problem was a straight up multiplication problem. I hate the ones where production gives (or accepts) a wrong answer because they aren't following correct order of operations. 

I'm also on the anyone but Fessy and Kaycee train. Although I'm rooting for CT and Amber. Especially because then Amber gets some level of vindication. 

Has this season been plagued with the most injuries ever? I can't remember a season with more folks who got DQd due to injury. That seems like maybe their games are a little too dangerous. 

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8 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I don't recall him being like this on Big Brother.  He and his ex-girlfriend were the only two people in their alliance that I actually liked (He was in an alliance with Bayleigh, Christopher, Blockstar, and Scottie so it is not too hard to see why I did not mind him because that alliance was dog crap).  But on here, oh boy is he unlikeable. 

 

He definitely did not act like this on Big Brother. While he was never a favorite of mine, I never disliked him. He seemed like a decent person, not entertaining, but not someone who I felt no need to root against. Now, I don’t know if things just went to his head or if he thinks this is what MTV wants, or something else, but his ego is out of control. 

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It really warms my heart to see people turning on Kaycee.

I wouldn't mind seeing Nany/Leroy win. I don't particularly care for either of them but just like for the nostalgia it'd be nice to see them win.

But, in general, I'm rooting for Kaycee/Fessy to lose and Amber to win.

Does 2nd place get money or not? If not, I'm thinking I might rather see Fessy/Kaycee get 2nd just for the lols of them being close but failing. But them being absolutely last would be beautiful, too.

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6 hours ago, snarts said:

Agree, I also like how they ended up. Based on previous challenges, here are my thoughts as to who is the strongest going into the final:

Kam/Corey - both have endurance, both can do puzzles, can they eat nasty stuff?

CT/Amber - both have shown endurance, CT is a puzzle ninja and can eat nasty food

Kaycee/Fessy - both have endurance but I don't think either of them are great with puzzles, can they eat nasty stuff?

Leroy/Nany - have shown some endurance, neither can do puzzles, and neither can eat nasty stuff

Kam/Cory - Cory is terrible at puzzles and math. Well, he's not necessarily terrible at math, he's just really slow. He'll get to the right answer, but it'll take him more time. Cory has literally lost finals because he couldn't do math or puzzles at all or just not fast enough. That's ok because Kam balances that out. Kam is good with puzzles and math. In the daily challenge for this episode, if Kam were the one stuck in a volcano and Cory had to come get her, they wouldn't have won. Cory and Kam have never been good at eating challenges, and it looks like there will be one in the final based on the trailer. I think Kam has actually been eliminated in a purge challenge before because she couldn't do the eating challenge.

CT/Amber - I don't know much about Amber other than she has decent endurance but struggles with math. For now, I'm guessing CT will do most of the work and Amber just keeps up. CT is a garbage disposal for eating challenge. It's disgusting. The only person I think would be better at eating challenges in the Challenge universe is Tony. If CT is a garbage disposal, Tony is a whole dumpster.

Kaycee/Fessy - Fessy is pretty good at math and puzzles. Of the guys, he's one of the fastest at figuring out math problems. Kaycee is like Cory in the sense that she's also slow at solving math problems. It may take her a longer time to figure out the answer. There were no eating challenges last season so I have no idea how Kaycee or Fessy will do.

Leroy/Nany - Historically, math and puzzles are Leroy's and Nany's kryptonite. Leroy still admits up to this season that he's not good with the math and puzzles. In past seasons, Leroy has leaned in partners to do the puzzles and the math. Nany has historically been really slow at figuring out puzzles and math. Seems like Nany has practiced speeding up her math skills in the off season.

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Does 2nd place get money or not? If not, I'm thinking I might rather see Fessy/Kaycee get 2nd just for the lols of them being close but failing. But them being absolutely last would be beautiful, too.

The pettiness in me wants that too if there's no money for 2nd place 🤣

The 2nd place finisher is the 1st to lose.

Edited by AntFTW
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1 hour ago, LaurelleJ said:

Also, Kaycee didn't pick Fessy when she won her gold skull. Were they worried about getting stolen again? Or ws Kaycee looking out for her social game, knowing that the had both the protection of Kam's alliance and the big brother alliance? If Fessy was that cocky, he would have figured that they would dominate the daily challenges and avoided getting stolen, the way that Leroy and Kaycee dominated the daily challenges (with the assist from Kam of course). 

It was all about numbers for them. It was about getting as many numbers as possible. That's why Kaycee happily went back to Leroy.

Funny enough, they weren't playing the same game in the beginning. Kaycee and Leroy weren't even voting together in the beginning. They were on two different pages. It wasn't until later in the game that they starting playing together and consolidating numbers.

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2 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

It's clear that some of these challengers do not watch past challenges. When TJ shows up and takes one of your partners, that means the other partner has to rescue them. This is not rocket science. Kudos to Kam for getting it done first.

...and kudos to Kam for seemingly being the only one to know that they were gonna have to rescue their partner. Kam thought they were gonna be buried but she got the idea of what was gonna happen. She made the smart decision of sending Cory.

Also, I think it was Kam that was like "I can't go because I don't have my wig on" or something like that. That cracked me up. The guys, less Fessy, let the girls stay so that they have more time to get ready lol

Edited by AntFTW
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10 hours ago, aghst said:
13 hours ago, AntFTW said:

1) I'm so pissed that they had a SECOND hall brawl. WTF? Why? That makes absolutely no sense! When Fessy nominated himself, I was thinking"well, at least it's not gonna be a hall brawl because they just had one. I hope it's something that's not 100% brawn." Then they show the hall and I'm like "WHAT THE %$^&?" 🤬 That ruined the episode for me.

There's been at least 3 Hall Brawls if not more.

Every time they do it, there is usually a big mismatch in weight and size.  It can't be an accident.  The producers seem to deliberately go for the Hall Brawl whenever there's a bigger vs. smaller matchup or the chance of it.

For all we know, they could have winked at Fessy and that is why he volunteered.

In this case, Fessy would have a big advantage against any guy.  He's the size of an NFL TE, used to firing out and leading with the helmet and shoulder pads to hit people, only in football games, he's going against guys closer to his size and strength.

There have been 4 hall brawls. @Eolivet mentioned all the people that they the game.

My gripe is not that there have been multiple hall brawls, it's that they did the exact elimination game back-to-back. They haven't done that all season. I don't recall them ever having the same elimination game be done back-to-back in any previous season. Because they literally just had a hall brawl last week, I didn't expect a hall brawl this week so that gave me a little hope for Kyle.

I love a good hall brawl but not so much that I wanna see it twice in a row. I prefer variety in elimination games.

They haven't repeated the same elimination game all season like that so why now? Why keep the same game that was literally just played? That's the laziest shit ever.

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11 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Oh yeah! I totally forgot that was him. Thanks for the correction. Both walked around thinking they were hot shit for taking out someone so much smaller than them.

You weren't completely wrong.  He did a hall brawl (I think) with someone (nelson?) where he played real dirty, grabbing the face guard, etc.  I think this is why TJ said something like, keep it clean, guys, at the start of the brawl this time.  He's scum. 

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Bill Simmons said it was fixed for Fessy.  He thinks MTV wants him to be the new villain.

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Yeah I'm generally not a favor of eating challenges but make them eat some gross parts of whales or something.

You see them puking in the previews but that could be from fatigue.  TJ said the Daily on this episode was a mini challenge.

They finally used the big open spaces in this terrain but they really didn't photograph it too well -- not enough wide shots.

Would be good to see an Iron Man type of final but they're probably going to have to stand out or sleep in the cold weather, maybe have some swimming sections but with snow on the ground they can't put them in the water too long without giving them a chance to warm up.

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9 hours ago, lilabennet said:

I wish they would stop with the math problems.  They used to have far more interesting puzzles.  The math problems are pure laziness on production's part.

There are so many other simple logic problem type puzzles they could do. Just thinking of the apps on my phone - sudoku, flow, nonogram, seabattle, minesweeper, ball sort... so many that would take very little setup/materials needed. Even do an ACTUAL logic problem! On some past season they had a traffic jam type puzzle where you had to get the red car out of the puzzle by moving cars forward or back. I think the twist was that some of the cars were stick shifts and not everyone could drive stick. There's so many good things that could be a daily or an elimination challenge or part of a final. It annoys me that this season seems to be all multiplication and running.

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13 minutes ago, aghst said:

Bill Simmons said it was fixed for Fessy.  He thinks MTV wants him to be the new villain.

After watching Fessy and CT argue about who is the strongest, no way were they about to allow Fessy to be eliminated. Fessy vs. CT is the final they wanted to see. Please, anyone but Fessy. 

I appreciate a villain, but I appreciate even more a likable villain. Bananas and Wes are very likable villains to me. Not Fessy. 

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2 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

After watching Fessy and CT argue about who is the strongest, no way were they about to allow Fessy to be eliminated. Fessy vs. CT is the final they wanted to see. Please, anyone but Fessy. 

I appreciate a villain, but I appreciate even more a likable villain. Bananas and Wes are very likable villains to me. Not Fessy. 

Anybody can be a villain but at least be entertaining. Fessy is a boring "villain". He's not decorating someone's bunk with pictures of a boyfriend they are cheating on. He doesn't redecorate someone's face when they're sleeping. He's not kidnapping the toilet seat after a gross eating challenge and sending it off on a floaty in a lake. He's mono-toned. He's not that reactive to anything. He's not overly emotional or dramatic. Fessy's not flipping tables. He's not stirring pots. Watching Fessy feels as great as watching paint dry or watching the water drain from your toilet or watching a slowly leaking faucet.

Personally, I don't think he's that great at playing the game. The skull dynamic of the game has helped him tremendously. This episode is the only time he's really had to play the game where everyone is trying to avoid elimination and the odds are not really in his favor. I have no doubt that if they take the skull concept out of the game, he would have to politic a little more and would be thrown in much more often.

Edited by AntFTW
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I hate Hall Brawl.

Fessy was the most emphatic about sending himself with TJ "I want my fate in my own hands" without letting Amber have a say, and then he sits there in the volcano muttering about Amber.  And then reading off his whole spiel about sending himself in but talking-headsing about Amber being emotional "this isn't about you."  Yes, for Amber it is about her!  

I don't like Johnny because of his misogyny and other such attitudes, but at least he's relatively smart.  Wes is very smart (even if not as smart as he thinks he is) and is now pretty likeable IMHO.  Fessy is not smart *and* is becoming more of a jerk.

I really admire reality TV folk who can rehabilitate their images.  Wes has done so, I think Cory has, etc.  And Cory was really cute how happy he was in the voting booth going on and on to Kam who you could tell was squirming inside.  

The landscape was pretty and I'd enjoy going down in that volcano.  Cory was smart to listen to Kam's request that he just step aside and let her at the puzzle.  

"Kam Cam" amused me.

I wonder if Kam and Leroy planned never to pair up because it expanded their chance of one of them winning, since they are planning a life together.  (I don't want to say doubled bc I  think Kam has a hugely greater chance of winning than Leroy does).

Anyone but Fessy and Kaycee FTW!

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1 hour ago, BarneySays said:

You weren't completely wrong.  He did a hall brawl (I think) with someone (nelson?) where he played real dirty, grabbing the face guard, etc.  I think this is why TJ said something like, keep it clean, guys, at the start of the brawl this time.  He's scum. 

It looked to me like Fessy stomped on Kyle's hand after he knocked him down.  They didn't re-show it and I didn't care enough to rewind, but it certainly didn't surprise me since it was Fessy

Fessy & Kaycee FTL (For The Lose)

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Well, at least we have a team to root against. Given the edit Fessy has had, I have trouble seeing him as the winner. I’d love to see LeRoy/Nany win, but they do not compliment each other well. The only way either win is if they have a male and female elimination during the final and the two winners pair up, which I think is pretty likely. 
 

My guess for the final is CT faces Cory and Kam faces Amber in an elimination and CT and Kam wind up paired, leading to them winning. 

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This is interesting so I just wrapped up the Challenge podcast:

1) Kam said she would have gone through with the plan to throw herself and Cory down if Cory didn't convince Fessy to go down. According to Kam, unbeknownst to herself, Cory stayed in Fessy's ear all night convincing him to go down. By the morning, Kam hears from Cory "I did it. I convinced him. Fessy is volunteering himself."

2) Leroy and Kam believe it's possible that Kaycee threw the Challenge so that she can eligible to be picked by Fessy if he won the elimination because Kaycee can outrun Nany and she seemingly wasn't able to catch up to her. Leroy caught up with Kyle on the run back but Kaycee was seemingly slower than Nany.

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6 hours ago, AntFTW said:

They haven't repeated the same elimination game all season like that so why now? Why keep the same game that was literally just played? That's the laziest shit ever.

I think it's clear TPTB see Hall Brawl as a real audience pleaser and as the toughest elimination, so it made sense to me they'd make it the final elimination for both the women and the men. 

4 hours ago, Jobiska said:

"Kam Cam" amused me.

YES! That made me laugh so hard lol.

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32 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think it's clear TPTB see Hall Brawl as a real audience pleaser and as the toughest elimination, so it made sense to me they'd make it the final elimination for both the women and the men. 

But most of the time, they're mismatches, no suspense about who's going to win.

I guess it's simpler to set up than setting up that puzzle where they have to break the glass tiles on some big billboard.

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Ahh I see I am not the only person rooting for Faysal to have his “Zach on the mountain” moment.  And I liked Faysal on BB!  I have no idea how Kyle, Cory and/or LeRoy didn’t smother him during his incessant wine-fest in the volcano.

I love Kyle so much.  It often happens this way in life in general, but he really seems to be the one favored by the show.  And I wonder if Cara Maria will ever come back on.

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18 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think it's clear TPTB see Hall Brawl as a real audience pleaser and as the toughest elimination, so it made sense to me they'd make it the final elimination for both the women and the men. 

I don't disagree with that at all. I love a good hall brawl. Hall brawl is my favorite elimination game. Speaking for myself, one of the beauties of a hall brawl is that it's not done so often. Again, I love a good hall brawl but not so much that I wanna see it twice in a row. Last season, they had 1 hall brawl episode with a double elimination. I remember looking forward to it all season after seeing it in the trailer. In season 34, there was also 1 hall brawl episode. Now, it just feels like hall brawl overkill and it didn't help the feeling that I wanted the elimination game to be something Kyle would have an even shot at winning.

As a side note, when they first introduced this iteration of hall brawl that we saw in this episode, the halls were much shorter when it was introduced. Now they really want people to break something by crashing into each other at full speed.

17 hours ago, aghst said:

But most of the time, they're mismatches, no suspense about who's going to win.

I guess it's simpler to set up than setting up that puzzle where they have to break the glass tiles on some big billboard.

Right! I like hall brawls that are nail biters and put me on the edge of my seat. For me, the there are only 2 hall brawls that were suspenseful and 1 that I liked because of my pettiness.

1) In season 23, Zach went against CJ from RW: Cancun and it was so suspenseful because everyone expected Zach to win easily but Zach was getting his ass handed to him. CJ is a fairly tall athletic guy but he's significantly smaller than Zach... and Zach looks like they poured steroids in his cereal instead of milk when he was growing up.

2) Also, last season's hall brawl with Nelson and Rogan was a satisfying hall brawl for me because they were about evenly matched.

3) The other one I liked for pettiness is just seeing Dee lose against Jenny last season.

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I felt really bad when Amber revealed she has dyscalculia. I wish they had allowed her to say that during the episode. 

I love Leroy, but I didn't love his guilt trip on Kaycee for not prioritizing him over Fessy. Fessy has been Kaycee's number one the whole game. Leroy's number one is Kam. If it had come down top Kam versus Kaycee, we all know whom he'd choose. 

19 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Finally, we're at the final. Thank god. I need this to be over. I think the only person I'm rooting for in this final is Cory. Anyone but Fessy at least please.

I agree--I don't even care who wins, as long as it isn't Fessy. 

9 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

Also, Kaycee didn't pick Fessy when she won her gold skull. Were they worried about getting stolen again? Or ws Kaycee looking out for her social game, knowing that the had both the protection of Kam's alliance and the big brother alliance? If Fessy was that cocky, he would have figured that they would dominate the daily challenges and avoided getting stolen, the way that Leroy and Kaycee dominated the daily challenges (with the assist from Kam of course). 

I think Kaycee saw how much more successful she was as a team with Leroy during dailies. For all his boasting, Fessy hasn't been that great, and regardless of what he thinks, it's not because all his partners have been subpar. However, Kaycee probably thinks Fessy is strongest in a final. I have no idea what she's basing that on, but to be fair, Leroy also hasn't been strong in finals. Maybe she also knows Fessy would never take money from her if it's a steal twist and she isn't as sure about Leroy.  

8 hours ago, Jess14 said:

He definitely did not act like this on Big Brother. While he was never a favorite of mine, I never disliked him. He seemed like a decent person, not entertaining, but not someone who I felt no need to root against. Now, I don’t know if things just went to his head or if he thinks this is what MTV wants, or something else, but his ego is out of control. 

I didn't like him on BB either. It wasn't really highlighted in the show, but if you paid attention to the feeds, so much of what he did in the game was because he was being possessive over Haleigh. He took out one of his own numbers to get another guy away from her, and used his power in the house to try to get her to date him. I thought it was really gross. 

6 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

After watching Fessy and CT argue about who is the strongest, no way were they about to allow Fessy to be eliminated. Fessy vs. CT is the final they wanted to see. Please, anyone but Fessy. 

I appreciate a villain, but I appreciate even more a likable villain. Bananas and Wes are very likable villains to me. Not Fessy. 

Bananas and Wes are both excellent at producing themselves. They know how to narrate and act to put together a storyline. Fessy is not nearly as bright as either of them, and he's also on social media telling everyone that he did stuff for television, which is something neither Bananas or Wes will ever do--they commit to their stuff, because they know saying "oh actually I didn't feel that way; I just said it for TV" hurts the credibility and enjoyment of the show. But Fessy wants it both ways. He wants to get airtime and he also wants to pretend he's not really like that and it's all for TV. I really can't stand him, and I don't think he's good for the show. He has too great a need to dismiss any criticism against him to be a good spokesperson for the challenge. 

The editors really subtly nailed him with the clip of him complaining that Amber was making his speech all about her when all season long every partner he's had has complained about how self-centered he is. 

I know Hall Brawl is a classic, but I'm not a fan. The potential for serious injury is so high, and so much of it is about how big you are. I'd rather see Balls In or a return to the Gauntlet 2 wrestling circle elim that Derrick excelled at. One of these days someone is going to get seriously hurt doing this elimination. 

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