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thewhiteowl

S18.E11: Gut Punch

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Vance assigns McGee, Torres and Bishop to COVID compliance duty at a foreign affairs summit, where they discover a link to another NCIS team.

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So if it were just up to the night shift, the new Secretary would be dead on Vance's watch. Let's leave them in charge just to try to make a point.

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17 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

So if it were just up to the night shift, the new Secretary would be dead on Vance's watch. Let's leave them in charge just to try to make a point.

They had to be disciplined, they have to know that they can't just do whatever the hell they want. I think Vance has been pretty fair to them considering what they did. And he's been trying to protect Gibbs as well. Them being good at what they do doesn't justify their actions. Gibbs team is arrogant just like he is and have no problem over stepping bounds.

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43 minutes ago, mommalib said:

They had to be disciplined, they have to know that they can't just do whatever the hell they want. I think Vance has been pretty fair to them considering what they did. And he's been trying to protect Gibbs as well. Them being good at what they do doesn't justify their actions. Gibbs team is arrogant just like he is and have no problem over stepping bounds.

Gibbs didn't ask for protection and doesn't want it. He's lost so much, he's willing to accept whatever consequences there are now.

Maybe if the writers had made the other team a bit more competent, the don't overstep bounds lesson would be able to sink in.

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So we are supposed to believe the chick that stole a body out of autopsy is now the leader of the “A” team? 

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24 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

Gibbs didn't ask for protection and doesn't want it. He's lost so much, he's willing to accept whatever consequences there are now.

Maybe if the writers had made the other team a bit more competent, the don't overstep bounds lesson would be able to sink in.

Doesn't matter what Gibbs wants, I'm saying I respect Vance for trying to look out for him. 

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I haven't finished watching yet, but wanted to acknowledge Pam Dawber's appearance. It's nice to see her.

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It isn't just a matter of "what Gibbs wants."  His actions reflect the entire NCIS.  Vance isn't just looking out for one rogue agent.  He's responsible for the entire organization and the newspaper article doesn't make NCIS look great.

Yes, the Gibbs team saved the day, but they should have worked with the assigned agents and not gone out on their own.  They've learned how to behave from their mentor any way they want, damn the rules, and like Gibbs, they keep getting away with it.

 

 

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Edited by buckboard
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The writers are floundering. Witness how long the opening scene was, all the steps and missteps, the guy trying to get into the show, then walking into the alley, etc. Killing time is what we call it. Gibbs looks and sounds happy. Does no one else see that?

On another related note:This show did the viewers a disservice in not giving us an able-bodied second-in-command for the team, someone who could take over the team. Like DiNozzi was before he fell madly in love with Ziva. McGee, I’m sorry, is not a person who could take over the team. I have never thought that. So if Gibbs leaves, and the show isn’t outright cancelled, it will be shortly next season.

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Sawyer was certainly a jerk but I do not blame him.  NCIS is supposed to be one big team and Gibbs' team acted like they were the only ones who mattered.

Jimmy was still definitely on their side but Kasie stepped back to the neutral side.  In fact, I thought she was a little bit happy that she could put their work to the bottom of the pile.

But mostly I felt angry and sad that the musician, who had been happy just to get a paying gig, was set up to take the blame and then murdered.

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2 hours ago, DavidWeis1 said:

The writers are floundering. Witness how long the opening scene was, all the steps and missteps, the guy trying to get into the show, then walking into the alley, etc. Killing time is what we call it. Gibbs looks and sounds happy. Does no one else see that?

On another related note:This show did the viewers a disservice in not giving us an able-bodied second-in-command for the team, someone who could take over the team. Like DiNozzi was before he fell madly in love with Ziva. McGee, I’m sorry, is not a person who could take over the team. I have never thought that. So if Gibbs leaves, and the show isn’t outright cancelled, it will be shortly next season.

I noticed that too. The pacing is off. You could tell they were acting. The actor playing Sawyer is not good. 

Now they're bringing in Pam to play against Gibbs. Of COURSE she knows it's a boat carburetor! Gibbs gives the vibe that he just doesn't care anymore. It's weird. 

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I wish Gibbs cared a little more that the team is facing consequences for backing up his actions.  I know they're adults and he didn't ask them to, but he should appreciate the kind of work culture he's instilled in them.  Just because he seems perfectly content being suspended or fired, doesn't mean that he can't show a little concern for the people he's left behind.

I don't think McGee is necessarily a bad team leader.  But he has the same problem that DiNozzo did, which means that as long as Gibbs/Harmon is still on the show, we're going to see episodes where the team either "needs" Gibbs or isn't nearly as effective without him.   The characters aren't going to get a true "growing into the role" moment until or unless it's clear that Gibbs is NEVER coming back.

Edited by squidprincess
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15 hours ago, mommalib said:

Doesn't matter what Gibbs wants, I'm saying I respect Vance for trying to look out for him. 

Maybe Vance still feels guilty about crushing Gibbs' Danish. 😉

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I thought it was uncomfortable to watch because the characters were poorly drawn.  Unpleasant, unrepentant, and relying way, way too much on a "feeling".  

Also unrealistic.  Would Bishop have been chatting with Satnav who knew she had earned a place in the corporate dog house?  Would he have discussed his personal medical problems with an unknown and potentially rogue agent. 

Don't the writers know any competent adults in the workspace that they can use for inspirations? 

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1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

I thought it was uncomfortable to watch because the characters were poorly drawn.  Unpleasant, unrepentant, and relying way, way too much on a "feeling".  

Also unrealistic.  Would Bishop have been chatting with Satnav who knew she had earned a place in the corporate dog house?  Would he have discussed his personal medical problems with an unknown and potentially rogue agent. 

Don't the writers know any competent adults in the workspace that they can use for inspirations? 

It was Sec Def but otherwise totally agree. The writers aren't even trying anymore. Gibbs team has become so fake it's painful and insulting to both viewers and NCIS. 

Edited by Grrarrggh
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Is it realistic that A) There is only one daytime team and one nighttime team and B) they can never talk to each other about their cases? I would think that brainstorming would be productive.

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9 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

It was Sec Def but otherwise totally agree. The writers aren't even trying anymore. Gibbs team has become so fake it's painful and insulting to both viewers and NCIS. 

I agree. I FF through a lot of it because I couldn't stand listening to the team talk to each other. I did listen to Gibbs' scenes. I just wanted to see what happened in the end.

25 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Is it realistic that A) There is only one daytime team and one nighttime team and B) they can never talk to each other about their cases? I would think that brainstorming would be productive.

I was put off by the idea that the two teams would compete against each other at the cost of the case; they are on the same side. It was just too heavy handed to me that the SecDef's life was saved by the gut instincts of the rogue agents. I'd like to see more solid detective work.

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It doesn't look good for NCIS to have a less than competent agent.  I thought the woman was fine.  I think having them competent, working together and complementing each other would have served the same purpose of showing 'our' guys to be indispensable.  Although, I did think the woman agent was going to take Gibbs' place and lead the team.  Maybe next week?

Awww, Harmon got Pam a job.  I hope she's in more.  Maybe Gibbs will settle down with her in his retirement.

I also think if the article told the entire story, that there will be some sympathy for what Gibbs did.  Frankly, I'm all for animal and children abusers to be dealt with in any horrific way someone wants to deal with them.

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1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

Is it realistic that A) There is only one daytime team and one nighttime team and B) they can never talk to each other about their cases? I would think that brainstorming would be productive.

In the early seasons, there were more teams. And they worked with each other and LIKED each other. Remember Pacci?

Seems like I made the right choice when I stopped watching. I only tuned in this week to see Pam and Mark interact.

That Dickwad Tyler can go anytime now.

3 minutes ago, Johann said:

 

Awww, Harmon got Pam a job.  I hope she's in more.  Maybe Gibbs will settle down with her in his retirement.

 

When it was announced Pam was appearing on the show, the article (in the media thread) stated she'd be in the last four episodes of the season, so I'm assuming we'll see her in the next three.

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2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Is it realistic that A) There is only one daytime team and one nighttime team and B) they can never talk to each other about their cases? I would think that brainstorming would be productive.

Absolutely; that's why they're on TEAMS, which doesn't exclude one team working with another. In fact, modern business and law enforcement models are designed around teams. The writers screwed the pooch on this one.

 

41 minutes ago, Johann said:

Frankly, I'm all for animal and children abusers to be dealt with in any horrific way someone wants to deal with them.

Throw them all in a hole that contains a bunch of pissed off Pit Bulls. Add a couple of enraged Rotties, a few snarly German Shepherds, and one or two bad-tempered Dobermans. Finally, a dozen or so of the most fearsome canines in the world - pampered, petulant toy Poodles - should guarantee fitting punishment for cretinous fuckwads who abuse dogs and children. Good call, Johann. 

Okay, now I'm all psyched and in the right frame of mind to head to work where I'm a healthcare provider! Cheers, all!

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2 hours ago, Ebau said:

Absolutely; that's why they're on TEAMS, which doesn't exclude one team working with another. In fact, modern business and law enforcement models are designed around teams. The writers screwed the pooch on this one.

 

Throw them all in a hole that contains a bunch of pissed off Pit Bulls. Add a couple of enraged Rotties, a few snarly German Shepherds, and one or two bad-tempered Dobermans. Finally, a dozen or so of the most fearsome canines in the world - pampered, petulant toy Poodles - should guarantee fitting punishment for cretinous fuckwads who abuse dogs and children. Good call, Johann. 

Okay, now I'm all psyched and in the right frame of mind to head to work where I'm a healthcare provider! Cheers, all!

You are forgetting Chihuahuas,  the ultimate big dog in a small body.

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9 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Is it realistic that A) There is only one daytime team and one nighttime team and B) they can never talk to each other about their cases? I would think that brainstorming would be productive.

It's like the one ep where Gibb's team met EJ's team, Cade and Levin, and the only reason Gibb's team solved their case was because Cade overheard them discussing the case and mentioned something about their suspect that they were unaware of.

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21 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

You are forgetting Chihuahuas,  the ultimate big dog in a small body.

True dat: 

Growl_istockpaid-1.jpg

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The team conflict was so annoying.  In some ways, I agreed with the one dude's complaints.  But it was completely undermined by the behavior of the other team.  Whatever they thought of McGee, Torres and Bishop as people, they're still reasonably effective agents who ostensibly are part of the same workplace.  It was ridiculous and immature to shut them out, especially when it was obvious that Team Gibbs was looking at angles that they weren't.

If the team leader was worth her salt, she would have said something like "Okay, I'll read you in, but you have to follow my lead and work with my team."  But the show can't have that, because it would then legitimize the complaints against Team Gibbs.

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On 4/6/2021 at 11:41 PM, Aliconehead said:

So we are supposed to believe the chick that stole a body out of autopsy is now the leader of the “A” team? 

Actually stealing a body out of autopsy sounds exactly like something Gibbs team would do. Nearly a requirement to be on the NCIS "A" team. 

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On 4/6/2021 at 11:19 PM, buckboard said:

It isn't just a matter of "what Gibbs wants."  His actions reflect the entire NCIS.  Vance isn't just looking out for one rogue agent.  He's responsible for the entire organization and the newspaper article doesn't make NCIS look great.

Yes, the Gibbs team saved the day, but they should have worked with the assigned agents and not gone out on their own.  They've learned how to behave from their mentor any way they want, damn the rules, and like Gibbs, they keep getting away with it.

And the other NCIS agents being incompetent enough that SecNav would be dead had Gibbs' team not gone around them was a plot contrivance to make our team look "right" about what they do. It's the old "we don't follow the rules but we GET THINGS DONE and that's all that matters" trope. That's also why Sawyer was as big of dick as possible, because anyone who gets in the way of the protagonists doing whatever they want without consequences is either evil, incompetent, a dick, or all three.

On 4/7/2021 at 12:16 PM, squidprincess said:

I don't think McGee is necessarily a bad team leader.  But he has the same problem that DiNozzo did, which means that as long as Gibbs/Harmon is still on the show, we're going to see episodes where the team either "needs" Gibbs or isn't nearly as effective without him.   The characters aren't going to get a true "growing into the role" moment until or unless it's clear that Gibbs is NEVER coming back.

Exactly. I half expected Gibbs to be working the case behind the scenes because there's no way in hell the team would be competent enough on their own to actually accomplish anything. However, no, for once they were actually competent enough on their own to get the job done and that's precisely because Gibbs wasn't there. When Gibbs is actually heading the team 9 times out of 10 they fail to take the initiative instead having to have Gibbs tell them what to do and when to do it or miss things that Gibbs picks up on instead. The writers do this to keep Gibbs from becoming redundant on his own team given that the rest of the team can fulfill just about any role he can as well or even better or at least should be able to.

On 4/8/2021 at 9:08 AM, ForReal said:

I was put off by the idea that the two teams would compete against each other at the cost of the case; they are on the same side. It was just too heavy handed to me that the SecDef's life was saved by the gut instincts of the rogue agents. I'd like to see more solid detective work.

Especially since said "gut feelings" were really just how the Musician's suicide and everything tying everything up into a neat little bow didn't make sense, for reasons that Gibbs' Team even outright explains when asked, only to be brushed off. Again, making the guys getting in the way of the protagonists look like incompetent dicks because they are getting in the way of the protagonists. It's not like Sawyer and whats her name aren't special agents too who should be more than capable of recognizing this stuff or anything.

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2 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

Exactly. I half expected Gibbs to be working the case behind the scenes because there's no way in hell the team would be competent enough on their own to actually accomplish anything. However, no, for once they were actually competent enough on their own to get the job done and that's precisely because Gibbs wasn't there. When Gibbs is actually heading the team 9 times out of 10 they fail to take the initiative instead having to have Gibbs tell them what to do and when to do it or miss things that Gibbs picks up on instead. The writers do this to keep Gibbs from becoming redundant on his own team given that the rest of the team can fulfill just about any role he can as well or even better or at least should be able to.

Yes! He doesn't do any investigating anymore and hasn't for years. He keeps the rest of his team down because they're so obsessed and needy for his approval. 

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I wonder if the guy who played the agent on the other team (Sawyer?) did something to piss off the production team.  In the scene in the bullpen when the 2 teams are discussing how the GIbbs' folks let the other team take the credit, the light coming in from behind him certainly made his ears glow bright orange/red.  

I appreciated the true to COVID times hair Pam Dawber had, with the gray growing out.  

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3 hours ago, Calvada said:

  I appreciated the true to COVID times hair Pam Dawber had, with the gray growing out.  

Did anyone else immediately think of Marjorie on Mom?

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I've been thinking about it, and I think what annoys me most about the episode isn't that the folks criticizing the team are wrong (they're right, of course), but that McGee, Torres and Bishop are the only people who seem to be suffering under the consequences.  The characters are adults, and accountable for their own decisions of course.  But Gibbs is the one who created this screwed up work environment to begin with.

Gibbs has been suspended of course, but he doesn't seem to care about that.  And by the time he inevitably comes back, Vance and company will be past the initial anger and resentment.  And things are just going to go back to the same way they've always been.  Unless he finally retires, in which case, he still never has to deal with the after effects.

The problem is that the show created basically a cartoon dynamic with the team.  And while it's entertaining to watch the way he can spur grown adults into action or shut down their nonsense with a glare (or a headslap), it doesn't remotely work when you start looking at it realistically.  No real world employer would allow that kind of abusive behavior and no real world employee would put up with it.    (I sometimes think that's why DiNozzo, Ziva and McGee all ended up with severe daddy issues, it's the only thing that makes any of this plausible.)

If you start looking at it realistically, then you realize that McGee in particular began working for Gibbs at the start of his career as a field agent, at twenty-five, and then spent EIGHTEEN YEARS being told to skirt the rules or outright break the law (how many times has Gibbs/Jenny/Vance ordered the guy to hack into some agency or another?) in order to get Gibbs the results he wants.  It seems unfair that Gibbs gets to blithely ignore the consequences of this.

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