S01.E02: Not Your Father's Organized Crime

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

re the no "ORDER" part of the show - I seem to think that for a while, there wasn't much "order" in SVU either.  Nothing like the mothership - which is my favorite formula - half law/half order.  I'm more than likely wrong on the SVU thing..... lol

Not only did SVU stop with the Order portion, Criminal Intent had maybe three or four episodes of the Order! Unless they count clashes between Goren and Carver, "Order". I would much rather have the Mothership return (like they're doing for Fucking CSI!) then this or any other returning/reboot/whateverthefuck they want to call it!

[MarylandGirl]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

That felt ridiculous to me. 

I know there have been standards laid out when it comes to vaccine distribution but I am not aware of any laws passed related to it.  The doctor was arrested for getting contraband vaccines.  There's no evidence that the patients knew they were stolen.  And they hadn't gotten their vaccine yet.  They were just in the waiting room.

And the only proposed (but not passed as far as I can tell) law I could see in NY was specifically related to the actions of providers--not their patients. 

See, I don't know. If the patients knew they weren't currently eligible for the vaccine, yet the doctor was still offering it to them, then maybe they could get in legal trouble for it? I'm not thinking so much now when, in my state (Maryland), they recently made anyone eligible to sign up, but back when, say, only healthcare workers could get it. It might be difficult to prove though. I was thinking to myself "Ack, they wasted all that vaccine!" though (because it had been taken out of cold storage).

[shapeshifter]

23 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

I was thinking to myself "Ack, they wasted all that vaccine!" though (because it had been taken out of cold storage).

I was freaking out too about the ruined vaccine, but then they had someone say that the van used to transport the stolen vaccine was even colder than required (because it was used for that specialty dessert), so I guess we were supposed to assume it's still in the van and got back to Harlem? Would've been nice to have a line about that.

 

27 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

If the patients knew they weren't currently eligible for the vaccine, yet the doctor was still offering it to them, then maybe they could get in legal trouble for it? I'm not thinking so much now when, in my state (Maryland), they recently made anyone eligible to sign up, but back when, say, only healthcare workers could get it. It might be difficult to prove though.

The wealthy vaccine-line-jumpers would have had lawyers who would have claimed they thought the vaccine was going to be wasted if not used on them.

But really, there should have been a fake TV interview with Professor Plum from Hudson University's School of Epidemiology in which the local TV newsperson would have pointedly mentioned the current state of vaccine distribution in that area.

[catrice2]

17 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

That felt ridiculous to me. 

I know there have been standards laid out when it comes to vaccine distribution but I am not aware of any laws passed related to it.  The doctor was arrested for getting contraband vaccines.  There's no evidence that the patients knew they were stolen.  And they hadn't gotten their vaccine yet.  They were just in the waiting room.

And the only proposed (but not passed as far as I can tell) law I could see in NY was specifically related to the actions of providers--not their patients. 

It depends. At some points in every state you could only get it in certain age groups, certain conditions, etc.  They may not have known they were stolen, but perhaps that they didn't meet whatever the criteria was at that time.

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not only did SVU stop with the Order portion, Criminal Intent had maybe three or four episodes of the Order! Unless they count clashes between Goren and Carver, "Order". I would much rather have the Mothership return (like they're doing for Fucking CSI!) then this or any other returning/reboot/whateverthefuck they want to call it!

Although I like the show I agree with you. It is totally ridiculous that SVU outlasted the original.  It has always had the weakest actors and storylines! 

I stopped watching SVU along time ago, but you are correct that CI didn't always have an "order portion. 

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not only did SVU stop with the Order portion, Criminal Intent had maybe three or four episodes of the Order! Unless they count clashes between Goren and Carver, "Order". I would much rather have the Mothership return (like they're doing for Fucking CSI!) then this or any other returning/reboot/whateverthefuck they want to call it!

Well, post-Ron Carver on CI, there were a ton of day-player ADAs, but it seemed like a lot of them were made out to be inconsequential, power hungry, or petty children. (See the red-headed ADA in "Silencer" in S6 who got angry when the sign-language interpreter cop and G/E refused to tell her what a deaf suspect was discussing with his attorney, only responding that if cops stuck together, so did ADAs! Ross had to take her aside, if I recall.)

I do know Warren Leight was on record as hating courtroom stuff. So why he was put in charge of shows in a franchise that directly referenced such, I'll never understand.

[Irlandesa]

On 4/12/2021 at 10:16 AM, MarylandGirl said:

See, I don't know. If the patients knew they weren't currently eligible for the vaccine, yet the doctor was still offering it to them, then maybe they could get in legal trouble for it? I'm not thinking so much now when, in my state (Maryland), they recently made anyone eligible to sign up, but back when, say, only healthcare workers could get it. It might be difficult to prove though. I was thinking to myself "Ack, they wasted all that vaccine!" though (because it had been taken out of cold storage).

Issuing rules and regulations about who is and isn't eligible for a vaccine doesn't turn that into criminal law that people can be arrested for, however. The only people I've heard of getting into trouble over it were providers who didn't do a good faith effort in making sure the patients were eligible before administering the vaccine.  But even then, I think what they got was the inability to get more vaccines or potentially issues with their licenses.  No arrests.

Even the women who lied about their dates of birth while registering and showed up dressed as old women to get a vaccine were issued trespass warnings because they were at the convention center uninvited (since they didn't meet the criteria).  Nothing I can find about jumping the line.

On 4/12/2021 at 10:48 AM, shapeshifter said:

I was freaking out too about the ruined vaccine, but then they had someone say that the van used to transport the stolen vaccine was even colder than required (because it was used for that specialty dessert), so I guess we were supposed to assume it's still in the van and got back to Harlem? Would've been nice to have a line about that.

Yeah.  That was Law & Order's version of Dippin' Dots which was talked about early as having trucks cold enough to transport the vaccine.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Irlandesa

[TM101]

Just watched. Definitely better than the premier and I will keep watching but a couple of things:

1) As others have said..it feels like a cliche FBI/CIA CBS show. Would have been much better if Dick Wolf mirrored PD a bit and let Stabler run his own gang/intelligence unit. One of the great things about Law and Order is how you “feel” the NYC culture in it. This doesn’t have that same L&O series cache.

2) So is it COVID or not? Some people in grocery stores with masks, the detective without, etc. it’s just weird.

3) I really like the Liv scenes so far. They are perfectly placed and are not forced which I thought they would do.

 

[illdoc]

The "detectives without masks" can be explained by considering them "first responders" and, therefore, first in line for the vaccine. Once vaccinated, they probably feel like they don't need to wear the mask.

[Raja]

46 minutes ago, illdoc said:

The "detectives without masks" can be explained by considering them "first responders" and, therefore, first in line for the vaccine. Once vaccinated, they probably feel like they don't need to wear the mask.

Since it it sort of linked in the Tommyverse or Munchverse sort of way most shows are just not consistent. On FBI the local police and crime scene techs, read extras, are masked meanwhile the FBI Agents  and witnesses are not.  Of the shows in the crime detective genre that I have seen All Rise being in the court and NCIS New Orleans have been the most consistent on the COVID countermeasure portrayals.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, illdoc said:

The "detectives without masks" can be explained by considering them "first responders" and, therefore, first in line for the vaccine. Once vaccinated, they probably feel like they don't need to wear the mask.

I would applaud this if it were a line spoken in the show. 
But I'm guessing the writers are concerned with being too specific lest things suddenly change unpredictably IRL and the show's rationale becomes laughable in future airings.

[Sake614]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:00 PM, SnazzyDaisy said:

Gina the waitress, is she Bell’s CI or an undercover cop? The actress was Gail Peck in Rookie Blue right?

Thank you! I knew she was familiar but couldn’t place her. And I didn’t see her credited in IMDB...

[jabRI]

Ugggh,, Gail Peck, such a debbie downer on rookie blue! 

I basically liked this and will watch some more, but annoyed with Benson for 'diagnosing' Eliot's PTSD.  She is not a psychologist.  She can share her observations and suggest he talk to someone, but that's where you draw the line.  He just lost his wife, maybe he's just grieving, come on.

For a L&O show, they are trying something different, instead of a 'case of the week' they are going for a season long arc.  Good for them, let's see how it plays out

 

 

 

[Neiman]

I don't mind the season long story arc vs. different crimes each episodes, but so far I feel this one about who killed Kathy Stabler is not very exciting.  Unless something really surprising happens, seems like they solved that one in episode one.  

[Raja]

With the criminals in the credits I am thinking that the plan would be the Wiseguy model. With little victories and losses during the episodes  before the law takes out the organization and a new mob becomes the target in the next season. That Stabler is not undercover makes it more likely that he can change targets.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 4/12/2021 at 11:48 AM, shapeshifter said:

But really, there should have been a fake TV interview with Professor Plum from Hudson University's School of Epidemiology in which the local TV newsperson would have pointedly mentioned the current state of vaccine distribution in that area.

Ahhhh, good ol' Hudson University!

On 4/10/2021 at 8:40 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I really don’t know why I’m watching this. This is not Law & Order. Hell, it may be Law, but there sure as hell isn’t any Order! What the FUCK with the villain in the opening credits?!

And the whole subplot of the Vaccination Parties was BEYOND STOOPID, not to mention giving the impression to idiots who watch, that it’s perfectly okay to drink alcohol. The CDC has stated you shouldn’t have any until two weeks after your second shot. So all these wealthy entitled assholes who were drinking it up while getting jabbed? The efficacy has shot down a great deal.

I wouldn’t normally care, but we are still living in a pandemic, and this show has decided to include it in their universe, so they need to be ACCURATE about this stuff.

Can this be the last time I see fucking Olivia on this show?

I didn't know about the drinking but the way this show deals with the pandemic is ridiculous. They've made it part of the plot so they have to acknowledge it but I wish they didn't. We saw a patient sitting in the doctor's office putting on a mask after being told they were under arrest. Like, what? Vaccine parties, huh? Elliot and his fake date didn't shake hands but then she ends up caressing him - a complete stranger? I don't usually understand organized crime shows/movies but I've been able to follow along so far. I like Stabler so that's why I'm tuned in and I like it so far. 

I don't think Olivia is going anywhere any time soon. They've got unfinished business lol. 

On 4/10/2021 at 11:30 PM, dirtypop90 said:

well Noah looks nothing like baby Noah.

I actually dont remember what baby Eli looked like or ever seeing him. I do think this kid looks a little like Stabler and I like they are at least attempting to make him look Italian. I would say he's second to Kathleen as far as looking like a stabler. The others they casted are way off to me.

Is Eli supposed to be Italian? I know the family was living in Italy but I didn't know they were of Italian descent. I always thought Eli was of Irish descent. Then again, I don't know anything about Kathy's family background. Either way, genes are funny like that - especially on TV. The Wheatley daughter has a white father and is darker than her mother, her father and pop-pop don't look like they're even remotely related, etc. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Is Eli supposed to be Italian?

No. His name s short for Elliot. And yes, Elliott is Irish, so all his kids are also Irish. It’s just Elliott, Kathy, and Eli had been living in Rome these last 6 years or so.

[love2lovebadtv]

35 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. His name s short for Elliot. And yes, Elliott is Irish, so all his kids are also Irish. It’s just Elliott, Kathy, and Eli had been living in Rome these last 6 years or so.

I was responding to someone mentioning that at least Eli looks Italian/like a Stabler. And I was curious if he was supposed to be Italian because I've always known Elliott to be of Irish descent. But I realize that just because he is doesn't meant that Kathy is, too. So I thought maybe there was some Italian ancestry I didn't know about. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I was responding to someone mentioning that at least Eli looks Italian/like a Stabler. And I was curious if he was supposed to be Italian because I've always known Elliott to be of Irish descent. But I realize that just because he is doesn't meant that Kathy is, too. So I thought maybe there was some Italian ancestry I didn't know about. 

Oops! Sorry. The family was only in Italy because Elliott was doing some kind of international task force thingie. Not sure why the question of Eli being Italian was brought up. Even Dickie when he was around 16 had the dark brown hair--as he still does. While the actor portraying him is Italian (based on his last name), I believe both Elliott and Kathy are Irish. Because that's how this show rolls, don'tchaknow!

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not sure why the question of Eli being Italian was brought up

Christopher Meloni was one of the subjects of a recent episode of Finding Your Roots in which his Italian heritage was explored (https://www.pbs.org/video/shirts-their-backs/). So maybe this got conflated in some viewers’ minds with fictional Elliot Stabler’s back story of having just arrived from Italy. 
After 10 years, I did not recall that the Stablers were supposed to be Irish Americans. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by shapeshifter

[mythoughtis]

I have one person I like on this show .... and she is a guest star on a blind date with Stabler.  I loved how she instantly got it when he said he wasn’t ready. 

[Girl in a Cardigan]

I'm really trying to get into this show because I love Meloni and his trending butt, but man, it's so ridiculous. Dylan McDermott is a fine Big Bad, but that's not what I'm looking for from L&O. We're spending far too much time with him and his family and I simply don't care. It was nice to see Charlotte Sullivan on my TV again - loved her in Rookie Blue!

There were a lot of flinty-eyed people behind masks last night and I guess we're supposed to know what's up, but I'm missing something. I thought the guy who shot the driver in the leg was Dylan McDermott, but now it seems like it might be the same guy as the one beating the crap out of Elliot on the sidewalk - who is possibly the guy getting too close and familiar with Elliot on the task force?

I did like that they made Eli look like an Italian teenager. Regardless of Eli's supposed ethnic heritage, he's been living in Italy throughout his preteen/teen years, so it's reasonable to me that he would dress and act like an Italian teenager, complete with football team shirt.

I was a Benson/Stabler shipper back in the early days of SVU, but when Stabler didn't get divorced in season 8 (even though he signed the papers and returned them to his wife who asked for them to be signed, so I have no idea why they didn't get filed), I moved on and even more when he left the show. I have no idea what they are trying to do with this relationship. He gives her a letter that tells her *something* about their relationship and then when she's read it and wants to talk, he can't do it. Fine, he just stole evidence, etc. But then HE calls HER to say not to say anything (about the PTSD? or...?) and clearly he's the one who wants to meet after Noah gets dropped at school. But then he wants her to back off, but likes that she still gives a shit about him? Like couldn't you just tell her over the phone that you're not ready to talk about the letter because of the whole trying to solve your wife's murder thing? I'm just... I'm missing something again here. Obviously, his wife died like 6 seconds ago, so he's not going to jump into whatever with a woman he ghosted a decade ago, but why are they doing this? Olivia has her own show, so we don't need her here unless Stabler's going to actually try to repair what he broke. I know it's been two episodes and I love Meloni and Mariska as humans together, but this half in/half out after a decade of literally no contact is just not working.

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, Girl in a Cardigan said:

Olivia has her own show, so we don't need her here

I don't watch the newer Wolf Chicago shows, but like SVU and this show, they air on the same night, back-to-back, and have character crossovers. So it seems to be a marketing thing for the network, designed to demonstrate to advertisers that they have captured viewer eyeballs for the night. 
If I'm right and the crossovers are a business decision, that might explain the awkwardness of the character intersections.

Edited April 24, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Girl in a Cardigan]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I don't watch the newer Wolf Chicago shows, but like SVU and this show, they air on the same night, back-to-back, and have character crossovers. So it seems to be a marketing thing for the network, designed to demonstrate to advertisers that they have captured viewer eyeballs for the night. 
If I'm right and the crossovers are a business decision, that might explain the awkwardness of the character intersections.

Oh, absolutely! I 100% admit that I only watched the pilot and am forcing myself to continue watching this show (will NOT go back to SVU after all this time) to see Mariska and Meloni together. But the writing has to make sense or be better for me to keep going. So they are winning right now with the tease of them together, but considering it took me two weeks to start catching up, it's not working even that well with me, who actually wants them together. Considering the reaction of most of the people in this thread, I'm the outlier there. Promo can only take them so far, they have to start delivering or I'll just go back to admiring them on everyone's Instagram and skip the nonsense.

[Cotypubby]

This series just does not feel like Law & Order to me. It’s way too slick and “fake” than the other ones which are more gritty. It seems like I am watching Bones or Criminal Minds or CSI. The leather jacket wearing, pierced & tattooed Lisbeth Salander trope hacker grrl is just so stupid. She is straight out of something like Bones, not the world of Law & Order. 
 

The “enhance!” an Instagram photo to read the letters on a box in the background in crystal clear clarity was like a parody of that trope. That felt like something they would have done on the show 20 years ago, but to do it seriously now again is just stupid. 

They just have no idea how to write or film during COVID. This series has the same issues as SVU. None of the speaking characters wear masks (even when inside a grocery store!!) and yet we are supposed to believe that this is still set at the beginning of the vaccine rollout when the supply was limited and stolen vaccines would be a profitable business. 

Elliott: “Those vaccines were for kids!”

uh no, kids can’t get it. And they only opened it up to 16+ last week.

At least watching on the DVR I could FF through any scene with Liv so that made it a whole lot more palatable! 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Cotypubby

[Girl in a Cardigan]

5 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

They just have no idea how to write or film during COVID. This series has the same issues as SVU. None of the speaking characters wear masks (even when inside a grocery store!!) and yet we are supposed to believe that this is still set at the beginning of the vaccine rollout when the supply was limited and stolen vaccines would be a profitable business.

YES! I try to give a pass because I know that NYC must have different rules than I have in the Bay Area, but it's so hard to see Eillot just get in Dylan McDermott's face like that with no one wearing a mask at all. All the background people in the grocery store have masks on, but not the speaking characters, even though it would make more sense for them to do so since it was supposed to be a clandestine meet between a cop and CI, so anything that would obscure your appearance would be helpful. Just ADR the dialogue afterward. I know the COVID protocols on the set must be stringent, so either have this exist outside of COVID or model good COVID behavior, but the half-in, half-out is driving me batty.

[shapeshifter]

40 minutes ago, Girl in a Cardigan said:

I know the COVID protocols on the set must be stringent, so either have this exist outside of COVID or model good COVID behavior, but the half-in, half-out is driving me batty.

On this and other, similar shows, where they show main characters randomly wearing their masks, it takes me completely out of the scene as I look closely to see if the camera angle is such that the actors were really 6 or more feet apart even though it appears that they are in each others’ faces.
But then what is the point of faking closeness in a scene where they just took off a mask? Maybe broader audience appeal? Or just to let the actors show their faces and voices? Both? I dunno.

In some more recent shows, in mask-wearing scenes, it sounds like they dubbed in the voices for clarity post-production.  

 I recall reading a couple of months ago that a lot of Hollywood filming was shut down because of Covid outbreaks on set (although didn’t read that about NYC). 
Anyhoo. 
Now that they’re hopefully on their way to being fully vaccinated, the risk to the actors is no longer a big deal. 
But will I ever want to watch reruns of the 2020-2021 season L&O shows the way I have the oldies? Or will the randomness of the masks be too cringey? 😬  😷 

Or will I enjoy analyzing them to death? 
Yeah. 😉