S05.E08: Chapter Eighty-Four: Lock & Key

[Bort]

A big announcement forces everyone to take stock of their current lives. Cheryl sets a risky plan in motion after learning some surprising news about Toni. Jughead tries to make sense of a strange encounter he had. Kevin and Fangs make a big decision about their future together.

Airdate 17 March 2021

[SeanC]

Man, after that seven-year hiatus Archie’s dating life is one non-stop party.

[madhacker]

6 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Man, after that seven-year hiatus Archie’s dating life is one non-stop party.

no argument there

This was the most screen time Kevin has ever gotten and most character development so now he'll likely mostly disappear for the rest of the season

Also just saying Casey has got a seriously hot bod. His fiance is a very lucky woman.

Am I the only one thinking Fangs was lying about Reggie?

[Demian]

Kevin Keller is a lot lizard.

No comment about it.  I just wanted everyone to let that sink in.

Kevin Keller is a lot lizard.

[methodwriter85]

28 minutes ago, Demian said:

Kevin Keller is a lot lizard.

No comment about it.  I just wanted everyone to let that sink in.

Kevin Keller is a lot lizard.

With a hell of a lot better body and face then rough trade usually goes with.

1 hour ago, madhacker said:

Am I the only one thinking Fangs was lying about Reggie?

I'm going to pretend that they did do it, because Reggie totally strikes me as the guy who tries it once.

[Artsda]

Not sure what the point is of a time jump and slapping same old characters together. Betty and Archie were actually having potential. Seeing Veronica navigate a marriage.

[ruby24]

Welp, that's it for Betty and Archie I guess. Pretty short-lived and now right back to Archie and Veronica? I still think they really waste the opportunity for love triangles on this show. I normally don't like them, but on a melodrama that ought to basically be about the various romances and stuff they should have an assortment of relationships, not just permanent sets of couples that constantly come back together after very short interludes where they don't even really like their alternate partners. It never feels like there are any stakes. You can have one of those kinds of couples, and then a genuine love triangle can play out with some other characters, and then others that might go through a lengthy relationship and then permanently break up or move on. I still think they missed a chance to let Veronica and Reggie get a little more serious, but it's like the show never wanted you to think for a second that she might actually like him, or even, gasp, like him and Archie? Is it possible to like two people at once?

I have to assume Betty and Jughead aren't far behind now, despite the Tabitha setup. It is weird they seem to be purposely not allowing Betty and Jughead to interact. Is that due to the real life split of Cole and Lili or are do they just want their reunion dragged out a little longer? That awkward "hey" in the lounge called a little too much attention to itself. And does Kevin hate Jughead or something?

I feel bad for Fangs. That was a pretty lame key party. Did anyone even stay in the house or did they all just go home after picking the keys?

Seriously though, I wonder if it's considered an old-fashioned thing to actually give other couples a chance on shows like this anymore. Because I remember Gossip Girl didn't stray from their set couples too much either (they took longer to get back together, but extraneous love interests never lasted more than a few episodes), whereas I remember back in the old days, with shows like 90210 for example, you could go years waiting for a certain couple to get back together while they dated and had full on developed relationships other people for seasons on end. One person could have a serious, long term relationship with one character, then go on to have another serious, long term relationship with another character they used to be just friends with, etc.

I wonder if there's just no patience for doing that kind of thing anymore. You pick certain couples and that's basically all it's going to be, with only minor interruptions. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by ruby24

[Lady Calypso]

I'm really not sure why they threw Veronica and Archie back together pretty much immediately after the time jump. We barely got four episodes of Betty and Archie before it's "whoops, I like Veronica still and don't feel anything with Betty!" I knew it would happen, but I didn't think it would happen this fast. I'm just tired of Veronica/Archie. Veronica is perpetually stuck in stories surrounding men, and Archie's plot is relegated to 40% sex scenes and Archiekins before anything else. I was actually excited to see Archie's plot because it seemed like he would be having some fun scenes and, at least, his sex scenes would be with a new partner. Instead, it's back to Archie/Veronica, which is just overplayed at this point.

And it also made the Married Veronica plot 100% pointless if Chad is now just gone for good. What was the purpose of Chad? Unless he's coming back to work with Hiram, which seems unlikely since he seemed to hate Riverdale and had no scenes with Hiram (who wasn't even in this episode! Hooray!), then Married Veronica led nowhere and did nothing for anyone's character development. It just wasted all of our time. 

Ok, so Cheryl is usually ridiculous but I don't recall her being so heartless and cruel. Not just being manipulative about the Toni/Kevin/Fangs situation, but her reaction felt ridiculous AND her insulting reasons for the party were to basically get Toni to live with her and take the baby away from Kevin/Fangs (let's be clear; even with her "with or without Kevin/Fangs" line, Cheryl was clearly not going to let Kevin/Fangs come visit THEIR baby) is just...not ok. Cheryl this episode was 100% not right in her choices all due to...what, jealousy over Toni? Did she really expect Toni to be waiting by her window for Cheryl to, one day, leave her Manor and come whisk her away? 

Good for Toni for shutting Cheryl down immediately. But I was not into Cheryl's actions this episode. It DOES look like she has a new girlfriend, so...hopefully that works out for her better. 

I do kind of feel bad for Fangs. I'm glad him and Kevin got their own plot, though. I'm happy that, at least for the most part, the show IS following through with its promise to give the supporting main characters more screentime. Hopefully, they keep it up (and hopefully they don't go back to the weird, tickle porn-like plots!).

So, Jughead has PTSD from whatever encounter he had, he's also had blackouts before the alien encounter or whatever...at this rate, I just expect him to have been TBK because this show would absolutely go there. But, Jughead/Tabitha is working for me. Jughead hasn't even really shared scenes with anyone other than Tabitha and Archie, but I'd hope that someone would comment on how drunk he's getting and how he's not ok. 

So, Polly phones home, showing she's alive, but then Betty and Alice find a whole lotta blood when they arrive. I do wonder why we never saw a cut to Polly at the phone booth, which makes me suspicious about her role in this episode. Obviously, they were able to get the actress for the episode and obviously they had the scene where the phone booth was.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm really not sure why they threw Veronica and Archie back together pretty much immediately after the time jump. We barely got four episodes of Betty and Archie before it's "whoops, I like Veronica still and don't feel anything with Betty!" I knew it would happen, but I didn't think it would happen this fast. I'm just tired of Veronica/Archie. Veronica is perpetually stuck in stories surrounding men, and Archie's plot is relegated to 40% sex scenes and Archiekins before anything else. I was actually excited to see Archie's plot because it seemed like he would be having some fun scenes and, at least, his sex scenes would be with a new partner. Instead, it's back to Archie/Veronica, which is just overplayed at this point.

And it also made the Married Veronica plot 100% pointless if Chad is now just gone for good. What was the purpose of Chad? Unless he's coming back to work with Hiram, which seems unlikely since he seemed to hate Riverdale and had no scenes with Hiram (who wasn't even in this episode! Hooray!), then Married Veronica led nowhere and did nothing for anyone's character development. It just wasted all of our time. 

Ok, so Cheryl is usually ridiculous but I don't recall her being so heartless and cruel. Not just being manipulative about the Toni/Kevin/Fangs situation, but her reaction felt ridiculous AND her insulting reasons for the party were to basically get Toni to live with her and take the baby away from Kevin/Fangs (let's be clear; even with her "with or without Kevin/Fangs" line, Cheryl was clearly not going to let Kevin/Fangs come visit THEIR baby) is just...not ok. Cheryl this episode was 100% not right in her choices all due to...what, jealousy over Toni? Did she really expect Toni to be waiting by her window for Cheryl to, one day, leave her Manor and come whisk her away? 

Good for Toni for shutting Cheryl down immediately. But I was not into Cheryl's actions this episode. It DOES look like she has a new girlfriend, so...hopefully that works out for her better. 

I do kind of feel bad for Fangs. I'm glad him and Kevin got their own plot, though. I'm happy that, at least for the most part, the show IS following through with its promise to give the supporting main characters more screentime. Hopefully, they keep it up (and hopefully they don't go back to the weird, tickle porn-like plots!).

So, Jughead has PTSD from whatever encounter he had, he's also had blackouts before the alien encounter or whatever...at this rate, I just expect him to have been TBK because this show would absolutely go there. But, Jughead/Tabitha is working for me. Jughead hasn't even really shared scenes with anyone other than Tabitha and Archie, but I'd hope that someone would comment on how drunk he's getting and how he's not ok. 

So, Polly phones home, showing she's alive, but then Betty and Alice find a whole lotta blood when they arrive. I do wonder why we never saw a cut to Polly at the phone booth, which makes me suspicious about her role in this episode. Obviously, they were able to get the actress for the episode and obviously they had the scene where the phone booth was.

Excellent response. I too am tired of Veronica and Archie and hoped she could have a story that wasn’t totally dominated by her reactions towards men. Betty could do with something that wasn’t serial killer related, too. Maybe hiram vould be serial killed and the two can break the blossom forgery ring. 
 

is jug a blackout drunk? 

cheryl is not showing any path to redemption as a person or felon. Give her a baby? God, no. 
 

the PTSD thing is also cheap and overused in general. Someone with actual ptsd would be justifiably irritated. Up there with rape as a plotline that shouldn’t be used unless you are willing to go the extra mile. 

[SourK]

There came a point during the horrible key party where I was like, "You know what? I believe this is who they all grew up to be." And I don't know how I feel about that.

Happy for Cheryl that she found someone evil and eccentric to be with. I think there's potential in that, especially if she becomes a villain this season.

LOL at the fight between Kevin and Fangs where Kevin said he wasn't ready to get married and Fangs was like, "Why? Because you don't want to give up trawling for sex in the woods? Then don't give it up!" I love that that was his first guess.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, SourK said:

There came a point during the horrible key party where I was like, "You know what? I believe this is who they all grew up to be." And I don't know how I feel about that.

 

Sad adults at a sad sex party who don't even have sex at said sad sex party who still haven't emotionally moved past high school? Tragically, that sounds about right.

I thought the time skip could be a good way to shake up the shows dynamics and have the characters really change, but most of them are basically the same people they were in high school who seem to just be playing grown up. Toni, Archie, and Fang are the only people who actually act more mature and who I do buy as adults who have grown since high school, everyone else is just doing the same things they always did when they were teenagers. Kevin is having tawdry woods sex, Veronica is hot for Archie and her Elektra complex, Betty is still going on about her "darkness", Cheryl is basically Mrs. Rochester, Jughead is angsty. They are even going back to their older dynamics, getting Veronica and Archie back together and tangling Toni with Cheryl again. I would have liked to explore more of them as adults, like Veronica being a married women, but just like that Chad the useless jerk is gone and she is back with Archikins, its like she never even left. 

Its funny how they are trying to incorporate some of the Katy Keene characters into this show, even if its just in phone calls and cameos, ever since the show got cancelled. I guess its a decent way to give that show some closure, even if its probably more because they are rather salty about the cancelation. Tell me that we will get confirmation that Pepper is serving three to five prison! 

So that's the end of Betty/Archie? I didn't love them sneaking around hooking up, but I did want to explore them more. Veronica and Archie just bore me now, they were clearly done by last season and I have no desire to see them get back together. 

Nice to get a plot with Kevin and Fangs, it will probably the most they get in quite awhile, but I wish it was a better plot. I feel really bad for Fangs, if Kevin wont commit after eight years, its probably not happening. Kevin hooking up with random weirdos in the woods and at truck stops was creepy and sad when he was a teenager, and now its just moved into depressing. 

So the "alien" will probably be whoever is kidnapping and murdering women on the highway, although I have no idea why they are doing it, especially for generations apparently. I hope that this plot with Polly missing gets wrapped up soon, these Betty serial killer plots always go on for way too long. 

Cheryl has always been petty, but this is some next level crazy ex shenanigans. She is apparently so jealous of the fact that things are going well for Toni that she decided to try and blow up her life (and Kevin and Fangs) just so that she can be with her now, which seems like she misses Toni and more like she hates that Toni is living a nice life without her. I am glad that Toni told her and her creepy baby room to shove it, I really don't want Toni to end up drawn back into the Gothic horror show that is Cheryl. At least now she has a new girlfriend that is into her special kind of crazy. 

[rmontro]

I guess the message to take away from this is:  If your spouse agrees to go to a swapping party and gets upset about you doing it with your ex, you know it's over.  Meh, call me old-fashioned, but I found the whole idea to be distasteful, even if they didn't really pull the trigger on things.

Betty and Archie together was skeeving me out for whatever reason, so I'm fine with them ending that for now.  But I agree with some posters that going back to the old couples is boring.  Maybe this show is starting to play itself out.

[thuganomics85]

That key party ended up being way lamer and tamer then I expected.  The whole thing was silly naturally, but I thought they would at least bring in some classic Riverdale batshit insanity antics or shake up some of the pairings.  Instead, it was just more of the same.  Yawn!

Well, they certainly did an about face with the Archie/Betty pairing by having Archie admit that he still has feelings for Veronica, and both of them agreeing to just be "friends."  It's like the writers just wanted them to hook-up and get it over with, but I didn't actually want to commit to anything.  And with Veronica finally dumping Chad's ass, it seems like Archive/Veronica is already back on the table.  Talk about some underwhelming drama.

Oh, Fangs!  If Kevin still doesn't want to commit after eight years, maybe it's not to be.  Not saying that Kevin should marry if he truly isn't ready yet (or ever), but both of them seem to want different things at their stage of life, and I don't see that working itself out any time soon.

As much as I love Madelaine Petsch and normally get a kick out of Cheryl's antics, I think it would be best if they really did just make her a straight-up villain again.  Her behavior was nasty even by normal Cheryl standards, and it gets annoying that she never is really held accountable for it.  At least Toni told her to stuff it and I hope she remains strong.  Toni finally getting a voice has been the best thing about this season so far.

Hey, they got a Katy Keene cameo over the phone a.k.a. were able to get Lucy Hale to record some lines when she was probably in between set-ups with whatever she is currently working on at the moment.

Jughead is now being haunted by an alien.  No surprise there!

Polly returns and calls Betty and Alice, only for them to go to the phone booth she was calling from, and it's now all bloody and broken.  Mystery!

[HeatLifer]

17 hours ago, Artsda said:

Not sure what the point is of a time jump and slapping same old characters together. Betty and Archie were actually having potential. Seeing Veronica navigate a marriage.

Same. The time jump was holding my interest. I liked Betty and Archie, the chemistry was exciting, it’s a shame they had to go back to their tired routine so soon. It seems like an utter waste. To be honest, if that was the end of the road for new ideas, it’s probably best for the show to retire. I’m not sure what else they want to do.

[rmontro]

54 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I liked Betty and Archie, the chemistry was exciting, it’s a shame they had to go back to their tired routine so soon. 

The only thing I'm wondering is if they get Archie and Veronica back together, and Jughead presumably together with Tabitha, who do they hook Betty up with?  

[SourK]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I thought the time skip could be a good way to shake up the shows dynamics and have the characters really change, but most of them are basically the same people they were in high school who seem to just be playing grown up. 

I had the same hopes. It occurs to me now that we've all been complaining the whole time about how the adult characters on this show act like they have the emotional maturity of teenagers and run around doing dumb things... so I guess we shouldn't be surprised that, now that the main characters are also adults, they are exactly the same way.

9 hours ago, rmontro said:

I guess the message to take away from this is:  If your spouse agrees to go to a swapping party and gets upset about you doing it with your ex, you know it's over.  Meh, call me old-fashioned, but I found the whole idea to be distasteful, even if they didn't really pull the trigger on things.

The part I hated most was that the show just glossed over all the pressure people were under to ignore any boundaries they had and/or the boundaries of their partners. Like, I know that no one on Riverdale knows how to do anything the way you do it in real life, but, if you're going to have a swingers party, at the very least, the people there need to want to participate.

As a side note, I forgot to say this, but I'm so glad Toni's baby isn't an alien.

[PositiveBean]

On 3/18/2021 at 3:07 PM, rmontro said:

The only thing I'm wondering is if they get Archie and Veronica back together, and Jughead presumably together with Tabitha, who do they hook Betty up with?  

It seems obvious they were always getting Betty and Jughead back together. The mysterious VM when he blacked out, his lingering looks walking from Pop’s and in the teachers lounge, their pointed “heys”, her body language in connection to thinking he wants nothing to do with her per his VM, using Archie for comfort/sex and then telling him she needs him more as a friend than lover, etc. They’re just doing a slower burn, for which I’m grateful. It’s too bad they threw Archie back with Veronica (ugh boring as always and much too rushed) because I think Barchie has great chemistry as well. Kudos to Lili Reinhart for being a strong anchor of that triangle. I mean, I bleed Bughead they’re my ship, but those Barchie scenes were both hot and sweet.
 

I just hope they don’t pull a Toni and have the new woman of color be a prop for their white leading man. Tabitha is a great character and gorgeous, send her Reggie’s way instead of using her as Jughead’s crutch. Charles Melton also needs more to do, that’s for damn sure.

Also um, what happened to Cole Sprouse? Please, no one come at me with he’s “method” acting (for a CW show lmao), naturally aging (his twin Dylan still looks great and healthy) or put on some quarantine pounds (doesn’t look like normal weight gain). He looks extremely rough and bloated, even off set and in BTS shots. And those dark puffs under his eyes in the shower scene weren’t special effects. His performances this season are lackluster and his screen presence seems to have been cut. Hmm I wonder if TPTB would be so forgiving if one of the women reported to set looking so rough. I doubt that, and it pisses me off.

Edited March 19, 2021 by PositiveBean

[rmontro]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:52 PM, PositiveBean said:

I think Barchie has great chemistry as well. Kudos to Lili Reinhart for being a strong anchor of that triangle. I mean, I bleed Bughead they’re my ship, but those Barchie scenes were both hot and sweet.

I don't know, Betty and Archie together just makes me queasy, I don't know why.  Maybe it's better that they do stick with the old couples as endgame, but does that mean nothing happens between Jughead and Tabitha?  Maybe Tabitha and Betty fight it out to the death for Jughead's hand lol.

Regarding Cole Sprouse, I haven't really noticed a change in his appearance, but Jughead's character is drinking a lot and appears to be under a lot of stress, so it's fitting if he looks a little rough.  I have no idea of the reason, but I don't see anything wrong with method acting for a CW show.  If you're an actor, I'm sure you want to do the very best you can with the role you're given, no matter how silly it is.  That's how you earn respect and get better projects, I would think.  

Edited March 21, 2021 by rmontro

[rmontro]

19 hours ago, SourK said:

The part I hated most was that the show just glossed over all the pressure people were under to ignore any boundaries they had and/or the boundaries of their partners. Like, I know that no one on Riverdale knows how to do anything the way you do it in real life, but, if you're going to have a swingers party, at the very least, the people there need to want to participate.

And if they didn't want to participate, then why would they show up in the first place?  Also, Cheryl made clear you could end up drawing any gender's keys.  But coincidentally two gay men got matched, and Cheryl and Toni of course.  Reggie did get matched up with Fangs, which Reggie seemed completely cool with, but Fangs later said Reggie was 100% straight, so I don't know.  Then Betty and Veronica both matched with Archie, and Jughead matched with Tabitha.  All very convenient.  Cheryl implied it was rigged for her to get matched with Toni, but I don't see how she could have rigged all the matchups the way it was done.  

[PositiveBean]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I don't know, Betty and Archie together just makes me queasy, I don't know why.  Maybe it's better that they do stick with the old couples as endgame, but that does that mean nothing happens between Jughead and Tabitha?  Maybe Tabitha and Betty fight it out to the death for Jughead's hand lol.

Regarding Cole Sprouse, I haven't really noticed a change in his appearance, but Jughead's character is drinking a lot and appears to be under a lot of stress, so it's fitting if he looks a little rough.  I have no idea of the reason, but I don't see anything wrong with method acting for a CW show.  If you're an actor, I'm sure you want to do the very best you can with the role you're given, no matter how silly it is.  That's how you earn respect and get better projects, I would think.  

He’s not going method. There’s been a steady and visible decline since 2020 before they even knew Jughead was going to become an alcoholic that many fans have noticed and been vocal about. I say this as someone who has also been a fan and disturbed at what I’ve been seeing. I get it, celebrities party but when it starts to look like this, that’s not good. They even cut his screen time. And again, it bothers me that if it was one of the women reporting to set like this, I don’t think the response would be as kind. But that’s my opinion, and I respect that you have yours.
 

I hope he pulls it together because I love Bughead and I think Cole and Lili are magic onscreen when they’re at their best. So yes I was very excited about the “heys” in the teachers lounge lol and fully expect them to start a (hopefully) slow burn. I only wish they wouldn’t have rushed it with Varchie. I also really enjoyed the last scene with Betty and Archie. I thought it was well-acted by Lili and KJ and bittersweet. But boy did the show do the Barchies dirty!

[rmontro]

4 minutes ago, PositiveBean said:

He’s not going method. There’s been a steady and visible decline since 2020 before they even knew Jughead was going to become an alcoholic that many fans have noticed and been vocal about. 

I haven't noticed but I'll take your word for it.  He's obviously not the gym rat most of the other male actors on the show are, so he's probably vulnerable to declining more quickly anyway.

[ketose]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:54 PM, Artsda said:

Not sure what the point is of a time jump and slapping same old characters together. Betty and Archie were actually having potential. Seeing Veronica navigate a marriage.

The time jump mostly seems to do three things:

• Not make them all go to the same college / job for 4 years
• Ages them up so that the actors are within a few years of their real ages
• Skips the pandemic

The key party was incredibly stupid. In a stereotypical 70's key party, (which is kind of an urban legend) the husbands all put their keys in a bowl and the wives picked. In this party, some people drove in themselves, others might have come in together. It would be pretty complicated to decide whose keys go in and who picks. It didn't even look like there were two groups. Everyone just went grabbing keys. Jughead grabbed Tabitha's keys and his were in there already. How would that work? Does someone also grab Jughead's keys and they pair off again? I know this is a dumb show, but if the writers can't even math, they really should try not to embarrass themselves.

[Affogato]

Betty is still unattached (and has some plot going on her own so she can be available for a while) and Veronica has stated she is using Archie to get Chad. So I wouldn’t assume everything is settled. I wonder if Betty’s FBI guy will show up. 
 

anyone get a bigger than car key connection with Locke and Keye?

[Affogato]

On 3/19/2021 at 1:44 AM, SourK said:

 

As a side note, I forgot to say this, but I'm so glad Toni's baby isn't an alien.

Yes

[methodwriter85]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:30 PM, rmontro said:

He’s not going method. There’s been a steady and visible decline since 2020 before they even knew Jughead was going to become an alcoholic that many fans have noticed and been vocal about. 

Yeah, it's been whispered about a lot.

It's really awkward to watch.

11 hours ago, Affogato said:

I wonder if Betty’s FBI guy will show up. 

I think he probably will. The actor is somewhat of a name- he does a lot of Hallmark movies. Usually you don't get names for a one-off cameo spot.

[Affogato]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Yeah, it's been whispered about a lot.

It's really awkward to watch.

I think he probably will. The actor is somewhat of a name- he does a lot of Hallmark movies. Usually you don't get names for a one-off cameo spot.

I have absolutely no access to this gossip. It is ok, just saying. 
 

if FBI guy shows up there will be some romantic action around Betty, I think. Right now she could use a rest.