S12.E24: Neil deGrasse Tyson, Amy Goodman, Matt Kibbe, Hogan Gidley, Richard Wolff

[maraleia]

 

"Cosmos" star Neil deGrasse Tyson, Democracy Now's Amy Goodman, Freedomworks' Matt Kibbe, GOP Strategist Hogan Gidley, economist Richard Wolff.

 

[iMonrey]

Well, that was frustrating.

 

First off, I came away from the Richard Wolff interview with no more understanding of Marxism than before it. Near as I can tell, Marxism is just the criticism of capitalism? He went on and on about how Marxism questions capitalism but offered no real concrete platform or idealism of his own.

 

It's always a bad show when Bill has two conservatives on the panel, even when one of them masquerades as a Libertarian. It's the same-old, same-old, Obama is responsible for everything from Ukraine to Iraq. Because Putin et. al. aren't afraid of him, apparently. These people want saber rattling and dick waving. Look how Hogan Gidley kept saying "it's symbolic, it's symbolic," but he wants troop buildups and direct threats. It's scary what bully mentalities these right wingers have. But, to have the colossal balls to say what's happening in Iraq is Obama's fault because Iraq was "somewhat stable" before Obama pulled troops out of there? OMG. Iraq was more stable before Bush & Co. invaded it. So what's the answer here? Apparently, in his eyes, an indefinite occupation of that country.

 

And what did he say the percentage was of Republicans who favor impeachment - 54, 56%? That's the same number who believed Obama was born in Kenya, so this has nothing to do with current events. Bill is right, they wanted impeachment the day he was elected, the first time.

 

Who doesn't love Neil deGrasse Tyson? His enthusiasm and excitement for anything he talks about is so infectious, it's adorable. And I covet his Cosmos tie.

 

I still think the whole Flip A District thing is weird. Somehow they went from a huge bracket down to a final four and I have no idea how the candidates were narrowed down, or by who. Or what they plan to do once they settle on one of them.

[ganesh]

I know Marxism doesn't equal communism, but I wish the guy was more specific. There's certainly a lot to criticize about capitalism to be sure, but he didn't offer anything. Does Marxism say "don't be greedy, only take what you need. Give back if you have too much"? Would he propose a cap on assets at like over $1 billion, for example.

 

I find it hard to believe that "no one criticizes" capitalism. We're bitching left and right about wealth inequality and how the rich should pay their fair share, and close the loopholes, etc. Obama's radio address about how corporations who relocate HQ to avoid paying taxes is unAmerican. How is that not a criticism?

 

Because Putin et. al. aren't afraid of him, apparently. These people want saber rattling and dick waving. Look how Hogan Gidley kept saying "it's symbolic, it's symbolic," but he wants troop buildups and direct threats.

 

Putin definitely doesn't respect Obama, but he doesn't respect anyone. It seems pretty obvious to me that because the world is so complex (by the formal definition not just a really hard place) that the cold war dick waving isn't going to work. What else should Obama be doing? Put the missile defense system in Poland. To that guy's credit he admitted it's not going to do anything. Why can't you just say, "we don't know either." You can bitch about sanctions all you want, and it's a slow moving thing, but they work. Some things are just a fucking mess. 

 

That woman made a good point. Even though Putin doesn't like Obama, they still were about to get chemical weapons out of Syria. 

 

Is it true or not that it costs more to kill criminals than to keep them in jail for life? 

 

Bill just doesn't know how science, engineering, and technical innovation works. It's infuriating to me because he thinks he's smart, but he's so uninformed when he bitches about nuclear power, for example.

 

I think he completely missed what NdT was saying. It's the going to the moon and the innovations that you develop to do that, where you can apply them to society at large. And it's not just space programs. The government cuts research funding and then everyone bitches we're falling behind in STEM. You've got to let people do research.

 

I think an unmanned mission to Europa would yield far more value than a manned mission to Mars tbh. 

 

Ugh. I've been bitching for years that the airlines should be prosecuted under RICO for racketeering. They're a mafia family.

Edited July 26, 2014 by ganesh

[attica]

I liked Kibbe's glasses. That said, when your libertarian book is titled "Don't hurt anybody" and still you argue for the death penalty and whatever he wants to do in Russia? Next, please.

 

The hair-club-for-men guy in the middle found himself in a fight with no weapons when Bill insisted he be specific. But at least we can buy the French helicopters! (?!?)

 

NdGT's position that civilization is possible because of scientists is well taken, but not in a vacuum. There's evidence that steam-engine precursors were designed in Ancient Greece and again by Leonardo DaVinci in the Renaissance. And then the guys funding those scientists died.  And there went that.

[iMonrey]

Also, one of the dumbest things Bill has ever said was that we "gave" health care to 30 million people. Uh, no, we didn't "give" health care to anyone. We made them buy it. Big difference.

[attica]

The enrollees in states with Medicaid expansion might look at it as a gift, I think.

[opus]

I wanted someone to ask Amy, "OK, I walk up and cut your daughters head off. Then I surrender myself to you. What do you want to happen to me?"

[ganesh]

She probably would say you should go to jail for the rest of your life. It's not like there's no other western countries that don't have a death penalty. 

[sistermagpie]

I wanted someone to ask Amy, "OK, I walk up and cut your daughters head off. Then I surrender myself to you. What do you want to happen to me?"

 

 

She probably would say you should go to jail for the rest of your life. It's not like there's no other western countries that don't have a death penalty.

 

 

Yes, what the victim wants to happen to the criminal isn't usually the basis for punishment. One of the many things, imo, that's a problem with the death penalty is people want to apply it most to emotional cases, and when people are emotional they're more likely to convict and innocent person.

[SpiritSong]

She probably would say you should go to jail for the rest of your life. It's not like there's no other western countries that don't have a death penalty.

The death penalty is just a euphemism for premeditated murder. Certainly there are ways to punish killers without stooping to their level. The state murdering its citizens is barbaric, which is why most of the rest of the first world countries have outlawed it.

This whole season of Real Time seems a little bit off. They started out with the guests holding up funny signs at the end of the show, then abruptly dropped that. The flip a district was an intriguing idea, but I agree with the poster above who said it really hasn't been explained well. It's almost like they forgot they were doing it, then hurried to catch up by presenting the final four just before the show goes on hiatus. What is the plan here? Just how do they think this flip is going to happen?

I like that Bill has conservatives on his show. I like it even more that two little words, Be specific, leaves them dumbfounded.

[b2H]

 

They started out with the guests holding up funny signs at the end of the show, then abruptly dropped that.

 

I liked the idea of that, but it was impossible to read those AND read the scroll for next week's guests.  I can see why they dropped it - made the screen too busy.

 

As far as the Flip-a-District idea, it would've been a good idea in a society that turns out to vote, but most people don't know who their representatives even are and those that do frequently want someone else's representative to get thrown out.  They could barely come up with 16 representatives in a House of Reprehensibles that has 435 useless characters in it.

 

Speaks volumes.

[HelenBaby]

I am probably wrong about this, but maybe the reason we're confused about Flip a District is that possibly the narrowing of the brackets were determined by interactions on social media. However, I follow Bill on Facebook and Twitter and I haven't noticed any "action" items.

[iMonrey]

 

The death penalty is just a euphemism for premeditated murder. Certainly there are ways to punish killers without stooping to their level. The state murdering its citizens is barbaric, which is why most of the rest of the first world countries have outlawed it.

 

And Gidley was being entirely disingenuous when he asked, "So what do you want to happen to them? They get locked up for a little while?" Uh, no - for life. 

[Hanahope]

I'm surprised Bill didn't add one of the very real reasons customer service is so shitty most of the time.  These are people making minimum wage and are instructed to provide said service in as little time as possible.  These people don't really care about providing service.  They just want to get you off their phone, sell you the product/food and get you out of the store/restaurant asap, etc.

[ganesh]

That kind of goes against what he's saying. The person wanted to cancel the service and they wouldn't let him and kept him on the phone asking, why.

[HelenBaby]

26 of the 30 years I worked were in a customer service position for BellSouth, and while this Comcast thing was excessive, I'm pretty sure they are instructed, maybe even measured, to save as many customers as they can. Especially these days in light of the amount of competition for a viewing audience. However, I can't imagine why Comcast would think it was cost effective to spend 18 (!) minutes to do so. Because it's a waste of time which leads to wasted resources. It's shameful really.

[Hanahope]

That kind of goes against what he's saying. The person wanted to cancel the service and they wouldn't let him and kept him on the phone asking, why.

 

But that's because they didn't want to lose a paying customer.  Keeping a customer who's paying is still more important that quickly servicing then hanging up on a non-paying customer.

[ganesh]

 

However, I can't imagine why Comcast would think it was cost effective to spend 18 (!) minutes to do so. Because it's a waste of time which leads to wasted resources.

This was what I was getting at, however.