S03.E03: Safe Enough

[Sweet Tooth]

Quote

Max resists an idea that could bring New Amsterdam more revenue. Iggy pushes back on the new telemedicine system. Sharpe uncovers a startling trend while treating a beloved former patient.

 

[ams1001]

So none of Sharpe's cancer patients were coming for treatment but it took her this long to notice this "trend"?

[LadyNebula]

ER did a story in its early years where one of the hospital workers was actually a thoracic surgeon in her home country. She saved a patient's life in an emergency but could've been arrested and was afraid of the consequences.  As soon as the Uber driver or whatever appeared, I knew that's where they were going with her. 

[ams1001]

9 minutes ago, LadyNebula said:

ER did a story in its early years where one of the hospital workers was actually a thoracic surgeon in her home country. She saved a patient's life in an emergency but could've been arrested and was afraid of the consequences.  As soon as the Uber driver or whatever appeared, I knew that's where they were going with her. 

It's also the whole premise of the show Transplant. (In that case he's a Syrian doctor/refugee in Canada, working as a cook in the first episode, saving the life of the hospital bigwig after a truck crashes into the restaurant, who then gives him a chance to redo his residency so he can practice in Canada.)

What bugged me is that Lauren was so rude to the woman and didn't even think to ask how she knew to stab the patient in the chest with a big needle. I mean, it's not something the average person would even think of.

[Driad]

They produce episodes far in advance, and couldn't know what conditions would be now, but at least in my area (not NYC) hospitals have been saying for weeks that at least for patients with serious conditions, it is safer to come in than to stay home. Also at least one vaccine company is testing on children.

[Leeds]

So Max, which do you think is better for Luna?

1: Living with her grandparents in rural Connecticut where even you could find time to visit her for a couple of consecutive days a month,

or

2: Bringing her to NYC where there are still plenty of Coronavirus cases, and you would maybe spend an hour a day with her, given the fact that you work 22 hours a day.

And given the fact that he appeared to have received the video of her first steps whilst he was at work, he would have missed them anyway.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Leeds
grandparents not parents

[preeya]

WOW! Reynolds got dumped in the middle of the street.  Looks like "Bloomers" will be his replacement squeeze.

[ams1001]

12 minutes ago, preeya said:

WOW! Reynolds got dumped in the middle of the street.  Looks like "Bloomers" will be his replacement squeeze.

Something tells me his Mama isn't going to like her anymore...

[statsgirl]

Max is being selfish to bring Luna to NY so that a sitter can look after her all day or she can be in daycare with lots of other children and catch it from them or her father rather than stay safe with her grandparent.

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

What bugged me is that Lauren was so rude to the woman and didn't even think to ask how she knew to stab the patient in the chest with a big needle. I mean, it's not something the average person would even think of.

In a hospital as diverse as that one, it was stupid of Lauren not to think about that she could be a doctor from another country.

But it was also stupid of the woman not to say "I learned it at XXX medical school and I'm an accredited pediatrician in  Pakistan."

Most stupid though was Lauren saying "there must be something that you want." Yes Lauren, there is. She wants a residency so she can get accredited again and doesn't have to live in her car.

[Sweet Tooth]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

In a hospital as diverse as that one, it was stupid of Lauren not to think about that she could be a doctor from another country.

But it was also stupid of the woman not to say "I learned it at XXX medical school and I'm an accredited pediatrician in  Pakistan."

Most stupid though was Lauren saying "there must be something that you want." Yes Lauren, there is. She wants a residency so she can get accredited again and doesn't have to live in her car.

The lack of communication on both sides was crazy. Lauren not going, "Huh, I wonder why she was so confident to pick up that needle" or "I'm arguing with an Uber driver over treatments. Maybe I need to look at that" is just insane. For it to take that long to sink in...I mean, c'mon.

And for her not to say "How do you think I know so much" and just let Lauren continue to demean her, was also like...really?

And yes, I figured the "something that you want" would be "to become a doctor in the U.S. so I don't have to live in my car." Perhaps using your power to put in a good word? A shower? Well, okay. I mean...

[jabRI]

But to be fair to Max, his reality is that he is a single father, and at some point he needs to make it work.  There are lots of kids in NYC, not everyone has the luxury of being in CT (not like there's no COVID there either).  Not impressed with Helen's histrionics,  I thought Iggy's story was more powerful, the very real mental health damage done to young people with this increased isolation.  Just heartbreaking.

[Dowel Jones]

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

What bugged me is that Lauren was so rude to the woman and didn't even think to ask how she knew to stab the patient in the chest with a big needle. I mean, it's not something the average person would even think of.

In New York?  I would think stabbing someone in the chest with a sharp object would be an elective class by high school.  Hell, there's probably a youtube video on how to do it.  🙂

[bros402]

So the patient saying she was "without chemo brain" yeah, she's been off chemo for less than a year, chemo brain doesn't disappear like that, and it usually doesn't go away completely.

I think we need to give out an award for Worst Doctor of the Episode.

Does it go to Dr. Sharpe, world's worst oncologist? Somehow, she manages to identify the cancer has spread in a few flashes on the screen, then she tells a patient their prognosis while they are getting scanned.

But don't worry, Dr. Bloom is in the running! It looks like she runs the worlds worst ER, too! An uber driver has to save a woman who is coding?

Sharpe is still in the race, though, violating the crap out of HIPAA with Max.

I think that Dr. Bloom wins this episode solely for how she didn't even ask Dr. Uber Driver "...so how did you know about that" until the end of the episode.
 

The cancer patient didn't go for a month and missed 6 treatments? jeeez, what kind of rough regimen did they have her on? iirc it was a platinum based treatment, so yeaaah.

Doctors have been saying since the start of the pandemic to only go out for necessary appointments, and chemo is definitely a necessary appointment - and infusion places have adapted pretty well to COVID.

My oncologist did telehealth for a bit (and going to the office to separate entrance for a blood draw), then just had me come in after a visit or two on telehealth, since in person is much easier, since you can't palpate a stomach, listen to lungs, or feel lymph nodes over a webcam.

The only doctors I have skipped during the pandemic were my GP (no need for a physical when I see my oncologist every 1-3 weeks) and my ophthalmologist (no need to risk being up close and personal when I don't have any emergent eye issues). 

Now I could understand if the patient was NED and skipped a scan because of the pandemic (I skipped an echocardiogram that my cardiac electrophysiologist ordered because of the pandemic), that would be a more realistic plot than "well I skipped 6 sessions of chemo and your office only tried to get in touch with me a few times so I didn't pick up." I know if I skipped visits with either of my oncologists, the staff would be calling me incredibly worried and would call my parents to make sure I was okay.

Edited March 18, 2021 by bros402

[circumvent]

16 hours ago, Driad said:

They produce episodes far in advance, and couldn't know what conditions would be now, but at least in my area (not NYC) hospitals have been saying for weeks that at least for patients with serious conditions, it is safer to come in than to stay home.

That was my thought too but I am not in any big city. NY had hospitals running out of morgue space so maybe that was a dramatization of a situation that was so desperate.

I think that this show is actually doing a good job showing the consequences of Covid, even if the other stories get lost in the mix. What happens to children when they cannot socialize, the isolation, parents who are at risk and have to be away from their family, how to make a choice when there is nothing near an assurance that things will work out. Those things happened in real life and I like how they are writing those stories in a lighter way than what I read last year in the news.

The story with the Pakistani doctor was a bit silly but the one thing she asked for was a sower and that really is the type of thing that happens. I made friends with some unhoused men in the park I go for walks and one day I gave one of them some cash I had on me, $30 or $40. A few weeks later, he came back and gave me $10 back. He saidn that he knew I was going to say "no" but he had to do that.  People just want the basics, basic human dignity.

[Biggie B]

17 hours ago, ams1001 said:

What bugged me is that Lauren was so rude to the woman and didn't even think to ask how she knew to stab the patient in the chest with a big needle.

Even before that - when the injured passenger first came in, the driver/doctor mentioned very specific bones in her hand, using the proper names of the bones. Right there, I knew the woman was a doctor - most lay people don't know the scientific terminology for most bones. And yes - the driver should've identified herself as a trained doctor as well, so the whole thing was ridiculous. I was really put off by how condescending, sarcastic, and rude Bloom was to the driver as well - she seemed one step away from using some sort of racial slur. All she had to do was either ignore the driver or just say something like, "We've got this, please go." No need to ridicule her.

I figured when Reynolds returned to help Dr. Kapoor that he'd eventually break up with his fiancee. No surprise there, if the character is going to be back on the show full time.

I like Iggy a lot - I think he's a great character and I am rooting for him. It's really interesting to see how he came so close to joining the overeater's group online but then slammed his laptop shut at the last second. He knows full well, as a doctor, that he needs help, but as a plain old person, it's super scary and overwhelming. I think he'll see his way through it, but not without lots of bumps along the way. I wonder if he will talk to his husband about this. I'm glad he found a solution for his patient and her parents.

Agree with previous poster that there's no perfect solution for Max and Luna. Even if he brings her back to NYC, he'll be apart from her the majority of his waking hours. I wonder, too, if there are issues with having a baby/child actor on the set right now, even briefly. 

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

I think we need to give out an award for Worst Doctor of the Episode.

Ooh, I like this! It can be a regular thing!

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Does it go to Dr. Sharpe, world's worst oncologist? Somehow, she manages to identify the cancer has spread in a few flashes on the screen, then she tells a patient their prognosis while they are getting scanned.

Right? I was like, "WHY would you tell her that while she's still in the machine?!"

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

But don't worry, Dr. Bloom is in the running! It looks like she runs the worlds worst ER, too! An uber driver has to save a woman who is coding?

How, in this busy ER, was there not one single nurse, doctor, or other staff member anywhere nearby?

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Sharpe is still in the race, though, violating the crap out of HIPAA with Max.

Not that I doubt it happened, but I can't think of what she did that violated HIPAA (I usually notice these things because it bugs me).

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Doctors have been saying since the start of the pandemic to only go out for necessary appointments, and chemo is definitely a necessary appointment - and infusion places have adapted pretty well to COVID.

I would think places like that, that deal with immune-compromised people regularly, would already have pretty good infection-control in place.

 

[Madding crowd]

I think Max is in a hard place regarding his daughter. Leaving her with grandparents for a whole year would mean she might barely know him and the grandparents might even sue for custody. She is his daughter and they should be together. I thought Bloom was very rude but the driver/doctor should know that no hospital in the world is going to let a random person without hospital privileges do anything.

I guess I don’t understand someone missing chemo treatments or that the doctors would not have been clear on the consequences of that decision. Helen also acted surprised both to see her patient and the result. Where did she think her patient went? 

[statsgirl]

20 hours ago, jabRI said:

But to be fair to Max, his reality is that he is a single father, and at some point he needs to make it work.

Maybe he could wait until NY is safer.  NY would have been in the second wave when they filmed this, many places are in the third wave right now. It's simply safer for Luna to be with her grandparents. Sharpe's rant gave the impression that this is never going away but in reality things will get better, safer.

Realistically, there will be a lot more firsts that he can share with Luna, ones that she will actually remember since she's so  young she won't remember this year. The first time she rides a bicycle as he's taught her, the first time he takes her to an amusement park, when he teaches her to swim.

A number of things in this episode reflected my own life.  My parents were doctors so my grandmother looked after me when I was Luna's age. Then we became refugees. My parents were luckier than the Pakistani doctor in this episode because they did get residencies when we came here but it meant that from having a loving grandmother take care of me, I was in daycare from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. I remember little from that time but I do remember being very unhappy.

Service personnel are deployed for up to 15 months, soldiers during wartime can stay away for years. I feel for Max being separated from Luna but bringing her to NY at this time seems like a zero sum game in which she loses.

[txhorns79]

15 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I figured when Reynolds returned to help Dr. Kapoor that he'd eventually break up with his fiancee.

I was confused why being diagnosed with diabetes meant that his mother now needed full time care and could no longer live alone.  I saw her struggle with the insulin shot, but I did not understand why that was treated as though the mom was now unable to function on her own.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I was confused why being diagnosed with diabetes meant that his mother now needed full time care and could no longer live alone.  I saw her struggle with the insulin shot, but I did not understand why that was treated as though the mom was now unable to function on her own.

And it was her first time doing it...it takes time and practice to learn these things. You'd think a doctor would realize that.

There are people whose job it is to educate diabetes patients on how to manage their health and medications. My friend has had type 1 for over 30 years (she uses an insulin pump) and she sees one periodically in addition to her doctor. 

[LittleIggy]

Reynold’s marriage must have been quite shaky to fall apart that easily. 🙄

[bros402]

16 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Not that I doubt it happened, but I can't think of what she did that violated HIPAA (I usually notice these things because it bugs me).

I would think places like that, that deal with immune-compromised people regularly, would already have pretty good infection-control in place.

I believe she said something like "Did you hear [patient]'s cancer came back?"

 

They have adapted well - I see my oncologist every few weeks and they have been very good about keeping people safe - they check our temps at the check-in window, and have very very clear signage listing symptoms that if you have them (or if you traveled outside of the state), to call the office so they can determine if you can come in (Or if they need to check your temp in your car, etc.). My local oncologist's restrictions are nobody with you (Unless you need someone with you) and for the infusion area, no blankets or pillows from home (But I heard someone saying that they bought a whole bunch of pillows and blankets to make up for it. 

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Reynold’s marriage must have been quite shaky to fall apart that easily. 🙄

Were they even married yet?

So she decided he'd be happier in NY and just dumps him on the street and hops in a cab, instead of, I dunno, sitting down and having a conversation about what they both really want. Because she loves him, right?

[circumvent]

44 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Were they even married yet?

So she decided he'd be happier in NY and just dumps him on the street and hops in a cab, instead of, I dunno, sitting down and having a conversation about what they both really want. Because she loves him, right?

I don't think they were married.

I am just glad she is gone. It was one of the most annoying characters they created, plus an unnecessary character.

[DearEvette]

YMMV, I thought Evie was a rather good character in the show.  She was created to be Reynolds' love interested because they wanted to tell a story about a black surgeon marrying a black woman.  She, imo, did pretty well in what was largely a thankless role.

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

So she decided he'd be happier in NY and just dumps him on the street and hops in a cab, instead of, I dunno, sitting down and having a conversation about what they both really want. Because she loves him, right?

The writing was on the wall the minute they called Reynolds back in and then created this entire situation with his mother that he was coming back to New York.  It was a rather obvious and clunky way to write him back into the show and write her out.  She didn't decide anything for him, he wasn't exactly fighting for the relationship or trying to convince her of anything.  The way I read the entire scene is that he was stood there rather passive/aggressively saying nothing not wanting to admit to what was glaringly apparently.  It took her to say out loud what needed to be said. 

[AnnA]

7 hours ago, circumvent said:

I don't think they were married.

I am just glad she is gone. It was one of the most annoying characters they created, plus an unnecessary character.

I agree!  I never liked her anyway so I'm glad she's gone.   If I remember correctly, his family didn't like her either.

[SunnyBeBe]

I laughed when I saw the size of that needle the doctor’s mother was trying to get.into the insulin vial. Omg!  I’ve been type one for many years and I have never seen a needle that long to inject insulin.   Most people use either short, ultra fine needles, if you still use vials or short, screw on needles that screw into a cartridge that holds the insulin.  You dial it up and it’s much easier that a syringe.  I’m on a pump now, which is ok, but not easier to manage than injections.  For a tv show to pull that in 2021.....is pathetic.  There is so much misinformation about diabetes....for a medical show to distort reality that way is inexcusable.  

[cameron]

The writers came up with the idea that Luna hasn't turned one year old yet.  What has she been doing these past few years?

[meatball77]

On 3/18/2021 at 5:54 PM, statsgirl said:

Maybe he could wait until NY is safer.  NY would have been in the second wave when they filmed this, many places are in the third wave right now. It's simply safer for Luna to be with her grandparents. Sharpe's rant gave the impression that this is never going away but in reality things will get better, safer.

Realistically, there will be a lot more firsts that he can share with Luna, ones that she will actually remember since she's so  young she won't remember this year. The first time she rides a bicycle as he's taught her, the first time he takes her to an amusement park, when he teaches her to swim.

A number of things in this episode reflected my own life.  My parents were doctors so my grandmother looked after me when I was Luna's age. Then we became refugees. My parents were luckier than the Pakistani doctor in this episode because they did get residencies when we came here but it meant that from having a loving grandmother take care of me, I was in daycare from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. I remember little from that time but I do remember being very unhappy.

Service personnel are deployed for up to 15 months, soldiers during wartime can stay away for years. I feel for Max being separated from Luna but bringing her to NY at this time seems like a zero sum game in which she loses.

NY and NYC have been no more dangerous than CT since they mandated masks.  NYC was terrifying (as was the entire tri-state area, NJ's per capita death rate is higher than NY's and CT's rate was very high also) but it's not any worse now than the rest of the country and everyone wears masks even when they're outside.  I'd certainly avoid the subway but day to day it's no worse than being with the grandparents.

Max needs to learn how to single dad.  Legally he's also at a dangerous period with as long as his daughter has been with her grandparents in that they could sue for custody and that would be a huge mess.

[tvfanatic13]

I was diagnosed with adult onset diabetes recently. It is being managed by diet and pills. Quite a leap that she needs full time care. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I think the doctor said that his mother had type one and they were explaining to her that her pancreas no longer made insulin.  Therefore, she had to take insulin.  But, with unsteady hands, a cartridge that you screw the needle on and dial the dosage makes much more sense.   Apparently, the writers wanted a scene to illicit how futile it would be for her manage her care herself.  It’s doable though. I know several people over 80 who manage their own care.  

[LittleIggy]

18 hours ago, cameron said:

The writers came up with the idea that Luna hasn't turned one year old yet.  What has she been doing these past few years?

They are using the same logic they applied to the length of Ella’s pregnancy.

[cameron]

4 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

They are using the same logic they applied to the length of Ella’s pregnancy.

Good one.

[DanaK]

I don’t understand how Helen’s tirade caused a surge in appointments. Her tirade would have scared the heck out of me and I probably would stay away from that hospital

[bros402]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

I don’t understand how Helen’s tirade caused a surge in appointments. Her tirade would have scared the heck out of me and I probably would stay away from that hospital

Yeah, I dunno either - maybe they are thinking reverse psychology?

I was expecting Max to just go. "Okay, let me just speak from the heart and tell them the truth." and it to go over perfectly because he's Dr. Max Goodwin, and he'd end the PSA with "How can I help?"

[pennben]

On 3/17/2021 at 12:01 PM, LadyNebula said:

ER did a story in its early years where one of the hospital workers was actually a thoracic surgeon in her home country. She saved a patient's life in an emergency but could've been arrested and was afraid of the consequences.  As soon as the Uber driver or whatever appeared, I knew that's where they were going with her. 

Bob!!!!

[Jillybean]

Tyler Labine actually has an eating disorder that they are writing into Iggy's character. https://people.com/health/new-amsterdam-tyler-labine-eating-disorder/

[NYGirl]

As luck would have it my sister in law was diagnosed with lymphoma in March of last year..just as the pandemic was starting.  She did 6 months of chemo in the hospital during the pandemic and is now in remission.

[bros402]

11 hours ago, NYGirl said:

As luck would have it my sister in law was diagnosed with lymphoma in March of last year..just as the pandemic was starting.  She did 6 months of chemo in the hospital during the pandemic and is now in remission.

hell yeah, congrats to your SIL!

 

F Cancer. If she's under 39, tell her to take a look at Stupid Cancer's Cancer Con