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S02.E09: The Show Must Go On / S02.E10: Into The White

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Wilford assumes control of Snowpiercer; those who are close with Layton grow anxious to learn their fates; Josie tests her newfound ability.

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As the train approaches Melanie's retrieval point, Layton leads a furious attempt to try and pick her up but not without some sacrifices.

 

Season finale, airing Monday, March 22, 2021.

 

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That just sucked. Mel dying off camera. Really? Willford is a sociopath and likes orgies, and will now kill half the train. 

Don't  know if I can return for season 3. Because we now know Willford will never be completely beaten. Mainly because nobody will simply kill the monster when they have a chance.

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They really need to get on training other people to be engineers. Without Javi and Melanie, they would be in trouble with just Alex and Ben if they got rid of Wilford. Although I guess he’s just sabotaging them anyway.

Whoever commented on wanting to see the aquarium car, you kind of got your wish. Except now it’s gone forever! Poor fish, when the ice froze through the tank. 
 

I second the emotion that I’m not sure I’m back for another season without Melanie. We didn’t see a body? I’m holding out hope...

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I hate seeing endless fights on-screen, especially fistfights.  This is, perhaps, not the show for me.  If you have an extremely limited population with only a few people in critical occupations, it makes no sense to kill those people off with abandon.  

Considering the ultra-cold temperature of the world, there is no way that a little bit of warming would cause ice to dramatically melt off the bridge or that ice would be breaking up on a lake.  I don't know why I'm concerned about scientific accuracy at this point.   

When it became apparent that the Melanie episode was partly a flash-forward, I began to have a hope that we'd find her alive somehow.  This show will suffer without Jennifer Connelly. 

 

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So we either presume Mel  used up her batteries and died from cold exposure or followed the hot spring path and perhaps found a warm area?  Hmm why sign up for a show and not stick with it? 
 

Alex has really shined these last eps and finally burst out of her moody teen angst to defy Wilford. Was so happy she help to get her mom back and take the train.

One problem I see with Snowpiercer, Wilford is going to cull the crowd, which means tallies first. Everyone will go back to strict class system from what was being said at the dinner. LJ seems determined to replace Alex, but then she enjoys killing and is as much a sociopath as Wilford is. 
 

So glad Audrey got clocked by Till. She deserves it for going against Snowpiercer.

Layton now has Josie and Zarah with him. Who does he pick?

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5 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Layton now has Josie and Zarah with him. Who does he pick?

Love the one your with, Zarah is on the train with Wilford.

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Good thing Layton and Ruth just happened to have a set of clean clothes lying around in Wilford’s bathroom to change into after taking a bath.🤷‍♀️

Edited by Auntie Anxiety
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Given the "science" of this show, I'm not counting Melanie out until I see a frozen body. And even then... 

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1 hour ago, Superclam said:

Given the "science" of this show, I'm not counting Melanie out until I see a frozen body. And even then... 

Yep. If for nothing else than the show desperately needs her. It’s just not very good without her. 

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Jennifer Connelly will be in season 3.  It is not clear if it will be flashbacks or things that Alex is thinking of or imagining conversations with her.  Or, she has survived miraculously.

 

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Ever since Audrey went over to Big Alice I've thought she was playing the deep long con on Wilford, and that she'd be the one to finish him. But... I guess we're to assume now she really just went with the easy choice, to survive? That is just so disappointing.

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2 minutes ago, Schweedie said:

Ever since Audrey went over to Big Alice I've thought she was playing the deep long con on Wilford, and that she'd be the one to finish him. But... I guess we're to assume now she really just went with the easy choice, to survive? That is just so disappointing.

 

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Love the one your with, Zarah is on the train with Wilford.

Thanks I didn’t realize Zarah didn’t go. Wilford has nothing but evil for that child. Watch him take the child away once born. 
 

Audrey was a huge disappointment . I too thought she was playing the long con but the Sabatoge ep and the way she was talking g to Alex and Josie really turned my opinion against her. She was useless on snowpiercer and now more so. 
 

At least Josie turned out good . That was a surprise given what Mel did to her. 

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16 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

My favorite scene was when Zarah closed the door on Kevin's fingers.

Mine was when Ruth kneed him in the groin. 

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I don't understand why no one just kills Wilford already.  He's a tyrant and no one who works with him actually likes him. 

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53 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

I don't understand why no one just kills Wilford already.  He's a tyrant and no one who works with him actually likes him. 

They would have had to cast a different actor; Sean Bean won’t take any more roles where he ends up getting killed.

Edited by Auntie Anxiety
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This show is not as good without Jennifer Connelly.  Alex does not adequately take her place.  Even if she appears next season, in flashback or otherwise, it appears they either didn't want to pay her or she wanted to work a lighter schedule.  She was barely in this season.  And when her scenes in this episode were from her solo episode, I knew it didn't bode well.  No body though, so you know how that goes.

Wilford culling half of Big Alice was a villainous revelation, not that he needed it.  I guess they didn't have the resources for the whole crew, which is kind of odd for a supply train.  But it sounds like a lot of the food was on Snowpiercer.

Poor Zara, stuck on Wilford's end of the train.  She's become one of the best characters, if not the best.  It was interesting to see how much she wanted to get back into wearing her teals, especially under the circumstances.

Wilford likes to keep an odd mix of friends and enemies around him, that he can manipulate and play with.  His carnival was much saner than his real life appears to be.

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I can't wait for the show down between LJ and Alex and I hope Alex beats her ass. 

Don't know how Wilford is going to do much of anything since he has to be the engineer now.  

So what did they do with the chick in the engine with Ben? 

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I, too, thought Audrey would ultimately betray Wilford at the end, but...oh well! I never liked her character and I hope she gets put in a drawer. 

I hate LJ. She's vile. 

Ruth is my favorite character, hands down. She does whatever it takes! And never gets hysterical or flustered - she just grits her teeth and executes. I loved it when she tased Kevin and then made sure to take her teal blazer! Go Ruth!

Alex redeemed herself completely. She started off as an awful person, so nasty to her mother and just insufferable - but she's done a 180. Too bad she didn't slice Wilford's jugular vein completely (and how the inside of her mouth didn't get cut up is amazing!). 

I was disappointed that Melanie seemed to be dead. Is the actress leaving the show? But, as everyone has said, no body = anything's possible. 

Poor Javie - he did not deserve to die...that was upsetting.

I really liked the song that LJ's boyfriend sang. I wonder if it's available anywhere for download? 

I guess I'll tune in next season. 

 

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I am surprised that Audrey really did drink the Wilford Kool-Aid, I was sure she was playing the long game. I never liked her that much but I never thought she would betray everyone for such an obvious sociopath, but I guess now she is probably regretting that choice. Stuck on the other side of the train after her boyfriend hardly flinched at her being threatened. Honestly, why doesn't someone just kill Wilford and get it over with? They would still have to deal with his loyalists and guards, but at least he himself would be out of everyone's hair and no one would have to watch his awful puppet shows. I guess he will have to cut back on the orgies considering he's now the only engineer on that part of the train.

Ruth was definitely the seasons MVP, he character growth and redemption was really well handled and it gave Alison Wright a lot of great material. So many great Ruth moments this episode, her and Andre high fiving while in the compost heap, her taking down a guard with a VERY loud scream, her tasing Kevin and grabbing her teal jacket. She is hospitality damn it. 

Poor Javi, that was horrifying. 

Alex had a pretty good arc, I am interested in see where she goes from here. I really hope that Melanie isn't actually dead, I would miss her a lot if she is actually gone. I didn't see a body though, and Josie sure did look dead last season and she came back as an icey superhero, so I am holding out that she might come back again. 

Who knew Oz could sing? 

If there is another season, I'll be there. 

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Like everyone else said, the show is not very interesting without Melanie. If she is really dead, I will probably stop watching next season.

I hope she finds a warm place to survive until the train is able to come back again to pick her up. 

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On 3/30/2021 at 12:11 AM, AnimeMania said:

My favorite scene was when Zarah closed the door on Kevin's fingers.

Ditto.

On 3/30/2021 at 2:39 AM, rtms77 said:

So glad Audrey got clocked by Till. She deserves it for going against Snowpiercer.

Yep. Tired of seeing that mutton dressed as lamb!

 

Well, Snowpiercer will be back for Season #3, but I doubt I will be.

It just beggars belief that Wilford could behave in such a psychotic fashion, not episodically, but virtually all the time, and nobody stands up to say "Enough!" and jam an icepick in his ear. And if Jennifer Connelly is out, there is no reason to stay. I really like Alison Wright's performance to date, but she can't carry this entire show on her back alone. And the rest are all "Who are they again?" players to me.

There once was a train called Snowpiercer. Then there was a second train called Big Alice. Now what? A third train called Pirate Piercer? Snow Pirate? And the marine car. Frozen to buggery and blown apart, never to return? They demoted Layton to shit-shoveler who was later joined by Ruth. But who shoveled the shit before these two came along? And am I to believe that the wonderful train with it's wonderful perpetual-motion engine was designed to need shit-shovelers at all?

When this does return, we might be deep in yet another lock-down with little content to choose from, in which case I might have to eat my words. But barring that, I think I'm out.

Edited by Netfoot
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I do wonder what new plot line(s) they can come up with in such a limited environment. I guess there's a vague chance that Melanie is alive and that somehow or another, she'll struggle to reconnect with the train, but I don't know if I want to watch that happen again. I have no interest in seeing more conflict between the haves and the have-nots - been there, done that. Frozie is now Defrosted and impervious to the cold, but is that enough to carry the whole show? And we are painfully aware that Wilford is a demented nut job who's seemingly immortal. So, I don't know - I do want to see what happens, but if it's just the same stories recycled, then meh - 

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On 3/29/2021 at 11:39 PM, rtms77 said:

One problem I see with Snowpiercer, Wilford is going to cull the crowd, which means tallies first.

See, I assumed that Wilford and crowd were on the SnowPiercer section, as the aquarium car was a long ways ahead of the tail.  When the car was breached, Snowpiercer left Big Alice (tied to the tail, as we know) way behind, carrying Wilford with it, but leaving the tailees behind.  Granted, he still has plenty of targets for his dementia.

Wasn't it an article of the science that the train could not stop because of the perpetual motion setup?  But there it was, parked at the summit while Alex and Layton went off searching for Melanie.

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Well, that sucked.  I was really hoping for a happy ending.  Instead, Wilford is still alive, Melanie is apparently dead, Layton and Alex are off the train.  The worst part is that we didn't even see the Last Australian or the Female Last Australian?  Where are they?  Stuck in 3rd class somewhere?  I was hoping they would be part of the plan to take back the train.  Did the writers just forget about them?

So unless there is some kind of miracle reveal, Melanie is dead?  Seems odd to cut out the show's star.  I noticed at the beginning of Episode 9 that her name wasn't even in the credits.  Maybe she will have survived somehow and Josie will help save her?

Javi is dead, although we thought Kevin slit his wrist and died in the tub (the show even had a suicide PSA even though it was hardly suicide, more like forced killing) and then he turned up alive.  I would assume Boki is dead.  Ruth is stuck with Wilford.  I guess Roche is still drawered?

8 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

See, I assumed that Wilford and crowd were on the SnowPiercer section, as the aquarium car was a long ways ahead of the tail.  When the car was breached, Snowpiercer left Big Alice (tied to the tail, as we know) way behind, carrying Wilford with it, but leaving the tailees behind.  Granted, he still has plenty of targets for his dementia.

Wasn't it an article of the science that the train could not stop because of the perpetual motion setup?  But there it was, parked at the summit while Alex and Layton went off searching for Melanie.

Wilford and crew were definitely up in the Snowpiercer section, they were going to take control of the Engine when the aquarium car was breached.  I thought Layton said that they are now in control of a 10 car train so the aquarium must have been the 10th car?  What are they going to do for food etc with only 10 cars?

And I was wondering the same thing about how Alex and Layton had gotten off.  Wasn't Big Alice pushing the rest of the train and chasing right after them?  That's what the ending cartoon scene showed.

On 3/30/2021 at 6:32 PM, rmontro said:

This show is not as good without Jennifer Connelly.  Alex does not adequately take her place.  Even if she appears next season, in flashback or otherwise, it appears they either didn't want to pay her or she wanted to work a lighter schedule.  She was barely in this season.  And when her scenes in this episode were from her solo episode, I knew it didn't bode well.  No body though, so you know how that goes.

Wilford culling half of Big Alice was a villainous revelation, not that he needed it.  I guess they didn't have the resources for the whole crew, which is kind of odd for a supply train.  But it sounds like a lot of the food was on Snowpiercer.

Poor Zara, stuck on Wilford's end of the train.  She's become one of the best characters, if not the best.  It was interesting to see how much she wanted to get back into wearing her teals, especially under the circumstances.

I still don't understand why they hire a name Oscar winner and then have her off the train for half the show.  The episodes without her just dragged.

And when you say "one of the best characters".... Zara???  Sad sack Zara?  Are you sure you don't mean Ruth?  Ruth rocks.  Zara, not so much.

On 3/29/2021 at 10:19 PM, Frisson said:

Whoever commented on wanting to see the aquarium car, you kind of got your wish. Except now it’s gone forever! Poor fish, when the ice froze through the tank. 

That was me.  I've been wanting to see the Ocean car again all season, and I'm so sad they destroyed it.  I don't understand why?  Why couldn't they just uncouple the train AFTER the Ocean car?  The fish would have been a good source of food.

I'm pretty sure I'm out.  I would assume next season would be a storyline of maybe trying to find Melanie (if Connelly comes back) and then trying to get the train back.  But I have no desire watching psycho Wilford again along with his new disciple LJ.  And there are too many unlikeable characters and not enough characters to really root for.

I cannot say enough how much I loathe Audrey.  I don't condone violence towards women, but wow, when she got clocked in the face by Till, I cackled and cheered.  And then rewound the scene about 20 times.  

If this second season had been more about adjusting to life on the new train, without the psychotic despot trying to take over, then I would have enjoyed a lot more.  How does the Tail and 3rd class adjust to better food and freedom?  How does 1st class (if any are even left) adapt?

Still never found out what happened to Jinju.  😞

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1 hour ago, blackwing said:

And when you say "one of the best characters".... Zara???  Sad sack Zara?  Are you sure you don't mean Ruth?  Ruth rocks.  Zara, not so

Oops, you're right, I meant Ruth.

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Wilford has to run the train himself, because he has no Engineers left on his train.

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3 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

I thought it was rather lame for Ruth to get stuck with Wilford all because of that damn jacket.

Is that what happened?  I was trying to figure out the sequence of events that led to her being stuck there.  It's because she went back to her cabin for her "Teals"?  And then couldn't get back uptrain fast enough?  How did Kevin know to find her there?

I think something I've never figured out is, the train is 1000 cars long, but we never get a sense of how long it will take to navigate.  Not sure where Ruth's cabin is in relation to the Engine.  There is the undertrain subway system to quickly transport from one end to the other, but how many of these little transport cars are there, is there only one, are there multiple tracks, etc.

So Ruth is now stuck with Wilford and he knows she betrayed him.  Doesn't seem like things will be working out well for Ruth.  Maybe Ruth, the Last Australians, and Strong Boy will lead the new rebellion.

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On 3/29/2021 at 11:19 PM, Frisson said:

Whoever commented on wanting to see the aquarium car, you kind of got your wish. Except now it’s gone forever! Poor fish, when the ice froze through the tank

Hub and I finally watched both halves over the course of 3 nights.  That aside, I thought the above scene was awesome, watching the aquarium car break apart like that.  Seeing Josie coming to the rescue to smash it was awesome, as well as Ruth's reaction to watching it implode

On 3/29/2021 at 11:19 PM, Frisson said:

I second the emotion that I’m not sure I’m back for another season without Melanie. We didn’t see a body? I’m holding out hope

Me too.  Offscreen death plus no body equals potential for character to pop up and return.  I'm still holding out that Madison from Fear The Walking Dead (whose death was presumed) is very much alive and will reconvene with the group at some point

On 3/30/2021 at 2:39 AM, rtms77 said:

One problem I see with Snowpiercer, Wilford is going to cull the crowd, which means tallies first

Or....taking out his anger over what Layton pulled of on his people.  He only guaranteed Zara's safety.

On 3/30/2021 at 2:54 PM, rtms77 said:

Ever since Audrey went over to Big Alice I've thought she was playing the deep long con on Wilford, and that she'd be the one to finish him. But... I guess we're to assume now she really just went with the easy choice, to survive? That is just so disappointing.

I'm still trying to figure out the significance of her character.  She's just a night club singer who dresses to the nines 24/7.  To me, she has no purpose nor is interesting

On 3/30/2021 at 8:05 AM, AnimeMania said:
On 3/30/2021 at 2:39 AM, rtms77 said:

Layton now has Josie and Zarah with him. Who does he pick?

Love the one your with, Zarah is on the train with Wilford.

Yeah - I thought the same thing.  Will sparks re-ignite between Layton and Josie?

 

On 3/30/2021 at 6:29 PM, Auntie Anxiety said:

I don't understand why no one just kills Wilford already.  He's a tyrant and no one who works with him actually likes him.

As I've said in previous posts for comparison reasons, I liken Wilford to Season 6/7 Negan on The Walking Dead.  The man only carried a barbed wire bat while his loyal minions were armed to the teeth.  He tortured people who betrayed him, burned their faces, made every kneel when he walked by, had several 'wives', bashed people's heads in while making their loved ones watch, yet....not one of his followers ever thought to put a bullet in his head and drop him flat.  Mr. Ctlady said that a lot of people in that post-apocalyptical/dystopian situations are more about survival and looking for someone to lead them....to give them hope, no matter what the cost rather than try to lead themselves - especially if that leader provides shelter, food and supplies.  The fact that Wilford knows every nook and cranny of the train, how it runs, how to fix any issue combined with they're now down 2 engineers has pretty much made him indispensable.  

On 3/31/2021 at 6:53 AM, Biggie B said:

Ruth is my favorite character, hands down. She does whatever it takes! And never gets hysterical or flustered - she just grits her teeth and executes

She's another one whose done a 180 since early first season.  I love her too.  I want to watch Ruth/Till/Josie combo thrown down some Wilford-ites

On 3/31/2021 at 11:25 PM, Dowel Jones said:

See, I assumed that Wilford and crowd were on the SnowPiercer section, as the aquarium car was a long ways ahead of the tail.  When the car was breached, Snowpiercer left Big Alice (tied to the tail, as we know) way behind, carrying Wilford with it, but leaving the tailees behind.

This is where I'm still confused as to who is on what part of the detatched train.  BA was attached to SP.  I'm not sure at what point the aquarium was located, but when it split, I'm assuming there's several SP cars still attached to BA and that SP is on it's own.  I need a picture book for this. I'm not sure what train the breachman (forgot the guy's name - the one with the accent) was on before Wilford's men intervened his attempt at the detatchment.  I had forgotten Ruth went back for her 'teals' and is now stuck on SP with Wilford.  I'm guessing Josie was able to run back down train and jump back into BA before the Aquarium was destroyed.  Can someone give an accounting as to who is where?  I may have to watch Into The White again to be sure

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So, how did Layton and crew manage to make a U-Turn in Snowpiercer, along with the front ten cars of the train, to go back for Melanie?  They are on a train track at the front of 1034 cars, not on a divided highway...

Also, when the aquarium car violently came apart, how did it not derail the entire back part of the train? 

I really like the show but stuff like this drives me crazy.

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On 4/17/2021 at 9:46 PM, VSJ725 said:

So, how did Layton and crew manage to make a U-Turn in Snowpiercer, along with the front ten cars of the train, to go back for Melanie?  They are on a train track at the front of 1034 cars, not on a divided highway...

I could be wrong, but I thought they made a complete circuit and came back around, not that they actually turned back. There was dialogue about how since they were much shorter, it would be a lot quicker than usual.

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On 4/17/2021 at 11:46 PM, VSJ725 said:

So, how did Layton and crew manage to make a U-Turn in Snowpiercer, along with the front ten cars of the train, to go back for Melanie?  They are on a train track at the front of 1034 cars, not on a divided highway...

They did turn around, they showed it during the scene where you could see the train turning in a big circle.  It's just a matter of switching onto a section of track that is designed to turn the train around.  I'm sure there's a name for this, but I couldn't tell you what it is.

What I don't understand, and never did understand, is how these switches are still working in this kind of weather.  Because they said early on that motors freeze if they don't keep moving.  That seems to only be true when it's convenient, however.

I was also bugged by the way the aquarium car was destroyed.  I could see it breaking apart, but the entire thing appeared to just disintegrate.

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Wilford's treatment of Josie in this episode has to be up there as one of his dumbest moves.

It was already questionable to use the cold-resistance treatment on somebody who had no reason to be loyal to him, but at least he made some effort to try to win her over. Then in this episode, he doesn't even pretend to be halfway decent, just orders her on a suicide mission that she has nothing to gain from, except the possibility of being allowed back in if she managed to survive. He could have at least tried to bribe her to cooperate with the promise of improved conditions and status for the Tailies, or promised that there'd be a First Class stateroom with her name on it if she did as he asked. Instead, he decides that it's a good idea to give somebody with the power to do massive damage no reason to hesitate to use her advantage against him.

The reveal about Wilford's purge of Big Alice came as no surprise whatsoever.

It is somewhat amusing to think that the First Class people who wanted so badly to have Wilford in charge are unlikely to realize that they are all but guaranteed to top Wilford's list of useless people to be disposed of. I can't see him having the patience to pamper them and cater to their whims as Melanie did. Wilford isn't going to care that the wealthy passengers' investments and ticket fees made Snowpiercer's construction a possibility if he doesn't see them as having anything to offer him now. It's not as if they can demand a refund. He can also win favour with Third Class and maybe even some of the Tailies by getting rid of First Class passengers, allowing him to use their vacated cabins as bribes for those who can be of use to him.

The destruction of the aquarium car was a great visual effect, but it underlines the utter stupidity of keeping all of their eggs in one basket. Cows went extinct because they didn't have the sense to space out the livestock. They had 1,001 cars to work with. They couldn't spare one to be a second aquarium in case something happened to the first?

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