Operation Varsity Blues: The College Admissions Scandal - General Discussion

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

Reenactments drive this documentary investigating the mastermind behind a scam to sneak the kids of rich and famous families into top US universities.

Airs on Netflix on March 17th.

 

[WinnieWinkle]

I'd really like to see something where the focus is less on the celebrities involved and more on the guy behind this whole deal. I'm in if they can manage to do that.  I've seen and read more than enough about this otherwise!

[Kromm]

23 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I'd really like to see something where the focus is less on the celebrities involved and more on the guy behind this whole deal. I'm in if they can manage to do that.  I've seen and read more than enough about this otherwise!

Yeah enough about Aunt Becky and Huffy Felicity! 

[Jillybean]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:43 AM, WinnieWinkle said:

I'd really like to see something where the focus is less on the celebrities involved and more on the guy behind this whole deal. I'm in if they can manage to do that.  I've seen and read more than enough about this otherwise!

I watched it and I'd say this focused on Rick Singer. There were extensive reenactments of phone conversations in which he as played by Matthew Modine. At the end, when they listed out all the key players and their pleas/sentences, Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin weren't even included.

I don't have kids, but I do have a niece and nephew, and this made me worry about their upcoming college application processes. It's ridiculous what it has come to and kids (and their parents) are putting way too much pressure on themselves.

[Irlandesa]

39 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

At the end, when they listed out all the key players and their pleas/sentences, Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin weren't even included.

I'm pretty sure they were at the end.  But the focus was definitely not on them.  If anything, Lori's daughter, Olivia, was the focus when they talked about what Lori did.

I appreciated listening to the conversations because it definitely seems like it was possible that some of the students knew but that many didn't given how many of the parents on the recordings didn't want their kids to be suspicious.  I suspect Olivia knew and that Felicity's kids did not.  It's interesting that one of college experts mentioned that Felicity's kids had the credentials to get in without this side door project.

What does everyone think about the guy they interviewed who claims his innocence?

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

What does everyone think about the guy they interviewed who claims his innocence?

I didn't buy it lol. Like, if he truly didn't understand what was happening then he is deeply stupid and I just don't buy he's that stupid. I think he probably thinks he wasn't 'as bad' as the other people who took the bribes since he only used the money to enrich his sailing team.

I liked this. It was informative and the reenactments were actually pretty good but with a bit of the 'this is really stupid' thing that I enjoy in these kind of docs lol.

I also like how the main point they seemed to be making was that universities are kind of shit and that it's basically all just a money making scheme. 

[merylinkid]

First, Matthew Modine got OLD.   How did that happen?

Akil Bello the test prep guy told some basic truths.   "their kids already had every advantage .. and they still cheated."

Rick Singer's plan WORKED because college admissions are fucked up.   There is faaaar too much pressure put on kids to get into the "right" school.   The tears and hysteria when the kids got rejected is very real.  Then there are the parents like Convicted Felon Lori Loughlin who wanted her kid to go to a "prestigious" school to protect the family image.   That was the real point of the documentary.   The end said it all "Rick Singer's 'side door is closed.   The 'back door' remains open for those who can pay."  

As for the Stanford Sailing Coach -- he ran it by the AD who was all "yeah baby MONEY."   They knew.  They can't get away with lying because they had the perfect scapegoat.   Nobody cares about the sailing coach.  they probably thought Oh Cool, he can self-finance his program this way so we have MORE MONEY FOR FOOTBALL.    They can hang him out to dry them claim they knew nothing.   But if anyone believes that money does not influence admission decisions like they claim I got a bridge to sell you.   Because the back door remains open.

 

[Adiba]

On 3/18/2021 at 9:08 PM, merylinkid said:

First, Matthew Modine got OLD.   How did that happen?

Akil Bello the test prep guy told some basic truths.   "their kids already had every advantage .. and they still cheated."

Rick Singer's plan WORKED because college admissions are fucked up.   There is faaaar too much pressure put on kids to get into the "right" school.   The tears and hysteria when the kids got rejected is very real.  Then there are the parents like Convicted Felon Lori Loughlin who wanted her kid to go to a "prestigious" school to protect the family image.   That was the real point of the documentary.   The end said it all "Rick Singer's 'side door is closed.   The 'back door' remains open for those who can pay."  

As for the Stanford Sailing Coach -- he ran it by the AD who was all "yeah baby MONEY."   They knew.  They can't get away with lying because they had the perfect scapegoat.   Nobody cares about the sailing coach.  they probably thought Oh Cool, he can self-finance his program this way so we have MORE MONEY FOR FOOTBALL.    They can hang him out to dry them claim they knew nothing.   But if anyone believes that money does not influence admission decisions like they claim I got a bridge to sell you.   Because the back door remains open.

 

Completely agree about Stanford— they knew and let the coach be the scapegoat. I think there was tremendous pressure on him to fundraise and he rationalized his actions. 

I found it interesting that neither Lori Loughlin nor her husband had a college degree. They had a kid who hated high school— how did they think she would do at USC? We’re they planning on paying someone to do her assignments?
 

[WinnieWinkle]

5 hours ago, Adiba said:

I found it interesting that neither Lori Loughlin nor her husband had a college degree. They had a kid who hated high school— how did they think she would do at USC? We’re they planning on paying someone to do her assignments?

That's what I always wonder when I hear about people either cheating to get in to school or lying about qualifications to get a job.  Do they not think there will be a day of reckoning when they will have to DO work  (school or work work) that they simply cannot do and someone will notice???

[thejuicer]

I just finished watching it and I thought it was far too sympathetic to the parents who participated in the cheating scam. At the end there was a narrator "I don't blame the parents, I blame the colleges". Really? It is very stressful and competitive to get in, but it's like that for EVERYONE. It's like that for the high schooler from an underprivileged area whose single parent works a double shift at Walmart. So spare me, I don't have extra sympathy for families who live in million dollar mansions.

Some of them paid up to $600,000 for their kid to get in. That's enough to buy a house and a car for their child, to essentially secure their future. So it's all about the prestige of being about to say "My daughter/son got into XX school" while they're at the country club next weekend. What they did is so, so wrong and took away opportunities from legitimate students who were not cheating.

[peachmangosteen]

Like I said, I actually loved that they called out the colleges for how greedy they are and how completely fake all the 'prestige' is, but I do agree that they were too sympathetic to the parents.

[Irlandesa]

On 3/18/2021 at 5:39 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I also like how the main point they seemed to be making was that universities are kind of shit and that it's basically all just a money making scheme. 

They did really go hard on prestige schools.  On the other hand, society itself created this problem.  It's not just for parents to be able to say that their kids are going to School X or School Y but sometimes employers value graduates of those schools more. 

[lasu]

One thing I was unclear on was if going through the "backdoor" is illegal or as illegal as this side door situation.  Like, if I say, Hey Harvard, I'm going to build you a sweet library and that's where my kid's gonna study!  Is that illegal?

I'm not sure the sailing dude truly understood what he was doing, but I am an awful person because I still laughed my ass off to realize he got off of a year's house arrest about three months before covid.  Hope you lived it UP, my dude.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, lasu said:

One thing I was unclear on was if going through the "backdoor" is illegal or as illegal as this side door situation.  Like, if I say, Hey Harvard, I'm going to build you a sweet library and that's where my kid's gonna study!  Is that illegal?

The backdoor way doesn't guarantee admission (in theory).  And it's not fraud because the university knows what's up.  I think the issue here is that the money often went into the pockets of employees who'd defraud the school by misrepresenting the people being submitted. 

And I suspect a lot of the issues might be related to the fake non-profit he set up.

[WinnieWinkle]

43 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

The backdoor way doesn't guarantee admission (in theory).  And it's not fraud because the university knows what's up. 

Not just the university - most people making that kind of donation would make sure to get their name in lights.  Anyway it's certainly using your power and influence to benefit your kid of course but you  could argue that the student body as a whole benefits because they get a new swimming pool or library or hall of residence or whatever, 

[lasu]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The backdoor way doesn't guarantee admission (in theory).  And it's not fraud because the university knows what's up.  I think the issue here is that the money often went into the pockets of employees who'd defraud the school by misrepresenting the people being submitted. 

 

15 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Not just the university - most people making that kind of donation would make sure to get their name in lights.  Anyway it's certainly using your power and influence to benefit your kid of course but you  could argue that the student body as a whole benefits because they get a new swimming pool or library or hall of residence or whatever, 

I'm not at all arguing with you guys, just trying to understand this whole mess.  How would these "backdoor" methods be fundamentally different from Sailing Coach's situation?  He didn't get any personal financial gain, and the school itself benefited (even if it technically only paid for sailing, since sailing was normally in the red, this means those sweet, sweet football dollars can go elsewhere), and from my understanding, never actually took a student this way.

[merylinkid]

Semantics.

Side Door:   I will give you $500,000 towards your program if you give my kid one of those sailing scholarships (which may or may not cover tuition)

Back Door:   I will give you $500,000 to endow a chair for professor of humanties if you admit my kid.   I will pay tuition.   

One has been done since time immemorial.   The other is bribery.

[lasu]

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Side Door:   I will give you $500,000 towards your program if you give my kid one of those sailing scholarships (which may or may not cover tuition)

My understanding is that they weren't actually giving places on the teams or scholarships.  Or were there some that did get scholarships?  Most of them were paying to have the coach say they were recruiting the fake athlete for a possible spot on the team.  In non-bribery land, the student athlete would be admitted to the university based on that.  Then, at the start of the school year, they would try out for a walk-on spot on the team.  With the fake athletes, they would say they were recruiting the student.  The student would be admitted based on that.  Then at the start of the school year, the student does NOT show up for try outs, the end.  Even a real athlete could be recruited, admitted, try out and actually not make the team, at least theoretically. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

There are actually a lot of differences between the "back door" and the "side door" but I'd say the fundamental one is that with the "side door" you are guaranteed a spot.

The "back door" is basically giving a school a charitable contribution. That is not nor should be illegal since there are plenty of people who give money to schools because they genuinely want to give back to their alma mater or kids or whatever. BUT, what happens is that Mr. Moneybags will give a school a large donation while Moneybags Jr. is applying to the school. When the school receives the donation, they will give Moneybags Jr's application a "second look." If their test scores, grades, etc are up to snuff, the school will consider giving Moneybag Jr. a spot but there is no guarantee that it will happen. One can argue that this is unfair and I think it is. However, schools also give other types of students "second looks" like economically disadvantaged or minority students and give them spots that they might otherwise not have gotten. Some people argue that this is also unfair. I don't, since they are trying to even an uneven playing field but regardless, it's the school's discretion to give whomever they want a "second look."

The "side door" included out and out cheating including cheating on the entrance exams and faking applications with false sports activities and photo shops of said sports activities. Also, they'd give a payment to Rick Singer's foundation which would go to key players in the admittance process. A coach from the school would vouch for the "athlete" and the student would be admitted based on that. This was an absolute guarantee for the student to get admitted into the school regardless of the qualifications of the student. The student wouldn't even bother to play the sport that they were ostensibly admitted for. I think the "side door" is unethical on multiple levels plus many people were getting personally enriched by the scheme. Yes, some of the money made it back to the school but it was all based on lies. Even if the students were qualified and had good enough test scores and grades, they would be admitted based on the lies about the sport they "played," which would only happen if parents paid Rick Singer. So the coach who wasn't personally enriched and just gave money back to the school still participated in the scheme since that money ultimately came from Rick Singer and Rick Singer got it via the parents who Rick promised admittance into the school based on lies and cheating.

Edited March 25, 2021 by DoubleUTeeEff

[Aulty]

My favourite part of the show was when Singer and the FBI made the tapped phone calls to the parents and someone mentioned how open and chatty those white collar money people are on the phone - and that any proper criminal would've realised this was a setup within 10 seconds.

The key factor with the sailing coach was that unlike most of the other side door connection, he didn't pocket the money himself - it went to the school. Not a good look for Stanford.

I also have to agree with the one admissions expert, that there is a place for everyone who wants to go to university, the problem is that they all want to go to the same 10-20 universities. Its pretty much the same in the UK.
Although I have to admit that, when there is absolutely nothing else on, I occasionally watch those 'Did I get in?' and 'A Level results' videos on Youtube and get really sucked into the excitement/disappointment.

The college counselor at Olivia Jade's old school realising that there was something going on was quite enjoyable. As was the mother who had a discussion with Singer, worrying that her smarter second daughter would realise what's going on.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Aulty

[ShelleySue]

My family isn't wealthy but my children participated in an elite sport.  We knew kids who got in through the back door because there are other backdoors that weren't mentioned.  For example, there are certain prep schools that are direct  doors to Ivy League schools.  In order to get into those prep schools your parents had to have gone to those schools.  In turn, their parents (btw - "parents" = fathers in most cases) went to those prep schools and that Ivy. It's not always about money either.  It's about who wrote your letter of recommendation (personal, not guidance counselor), etc. 

If you ask anyone whose child is or was involved in an elite sport they will tell you that the side door is no surprise.  My children's coaches hosted dinners at their homes for people who promised to promote our children for a fee.  I'm sure some of those people were legitimate and some were not.  To be honest, Mr. ShelleySue and I just did not have the money for that sort of thing.  (We did pay for an SAT tutors, but they were retired teachers who lived in our town.) My oldest daughter's boyfriend used one of those "coaches" and he did get into an Ivy, but so did both of his parents, so who knows.

I did feel bad for the Stanford sailing coach.  One of my daughters was on her college sailing team (not the sport she participated in in high school) and unlike the other sports at her school it was very low budget.  They had to drive themselves to regattas and had fundraisers to pay for their uniforms.

[KAOS Agent]

On 3/25/2021 at 4:33 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

There are actually a lot of differences between the "back door" and the "side door" but I'd say the fundamental one is that with the "side door" you are guaranteed a spot.

The "back door" is basically giving a school a charitable contribution. That is not nor should be illegal since there are plenty of people who give money to schools because they genuinely want to give back to their alma mater or kids or whatever. BUT, what happens is that Mr. Moneybags will give a school a large donation while Moneybags Jr. is applying to the school. When the school receives the donation, they will give Moneybags Jr's application a "second look." If their test scores, grades, etc are up to snuff, the school will consider giving Moneybag Jr. a spot but there is no guarantee that it will happen.

The other thing about this back door scenario is that the school will often just add a spot in their admission for a kid like this. So if they cap their numbers at 3,000 and someone buys a new library and wants their kid admitted, the school will just accept them as 3,001. No big deal because no one loses a spot to this kid and everyone gets a new library. 

With these side door deals, other kids were losing out because the school was not involved in the process as they were above. They didn't just say okay we'll take ten extra kids because crew needs them, they said okay we'll accept ten fewer kids from our general pool so that the coach can recruit a better team. This doesn't even get into the part where the even the academic portions of these marginal student athletes applications were lies because they were cheating on that too.

 

[merylinkid]

5 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

With these side door deals, other kids were losing out because the school was not involved in the process as they were above. They didn't just say okay we'll take ten extra kids because crew needs them, they said okay we'll accept ten fewer kids from our general pool so that the coach can recruit a better team. This doesn't even get into the part where the even the academic portions of these marginal student athletes applications were lies because they were cheating on that too.

 

Where did you get that they were taking spots from other kids?   that's never been shown.   There's been a lot of "these rich kids are stealing spots from poor deserving kids."  But it was more "Hey this person wants to be on crew, admit them okay."   And the school going "eh okay, whatever, we have these crew spots, so okay."   Its more like if they didn't admit them for crew, then the crew spots weren't taken that year.   Or the plan was for 3000 kids and this was kid 3001 because a coach asked for it.

[ifionlyknew]

On 3/21/2021 at 4:55 PM, WinnieWinkle said:

That's what I always wonder when I hear about people either cheating to get in to school or lying about qualifications to get a job.  Do they not think there will be a day of reckoning when they will have to DO work  (school or work work) that they simply cannot do and someone will notice???

A lot of them go into politics. And I'm not even joking.  Some probably go into the family business whatever that might be. Others probably remain trust fund babies.  I am curious what a lot of these kids majored in.  And how many of them actually thought they deserved to be there.

On 3/18/2021 at 9:08 PM, merylinkid said:

Akil Bello the test prep guy told some basic truths.   "their kids already had every advantage .. and they still cheated."

This is true.  Makes you wonder what would have happened to those kids if they hadn't been born into a rich family.  Would they  have had to try harder to succeed and actually do well in school or would they have dropped out?  I think in Olivia Jade's case it's easy to see she didn't care about school at all and I doubt she is all that smart anyways.   But for these other kids were they just not smart enough to get into these schools or did they just not care to do the actual work to get into these schools?

[merylinkid]

29 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

  I think in Olivia Jade's case it's easy to see she didn't care about school at all and I doubt she is all that smart anyways.   But for these other kids were they just not smart enough to get into these schools or did they just not care to do the actual work to get into these schools?

Olivia Jade got into Arizona State (I think anyone with a pulse gets accepted).   It just wasn't the school HER PARENTS wanted her to attend.   Being a party school that is not that academically rigorous for undergrad would have been the perfect school for her.   But her parents wanted the "prestige" school.   That was kinda mentioned in the documentary.   It's that too many people want to go to too few "prestige" schools.   These kids could have gotten in somewhere on their own.   Or gone to community college and tried to transfer if they put in the effort.   Its that they either wanted to go Stanford, USC or an Ivy rather than San Diego State, University of Delaware  or their PARENTS wanted them to go to a "good" school that caused this to happen.

[greyflannel]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Olivia Jade got into Arizona State (I think anyone with a pulse gets accepted).   It just wasn't the school HER PARENTS wanted her to attend.   Being a party school that is not that academically rigorous for undergrad would have been the perfect school for her.   But her parents wanted the "prestige" school.   That was kinda mentioned in the documentary.   It's that too many people want to go to too few "prestige" schools.   These kids could have gotten in somewhere on their own.   Or gone to community college and tried to transfer if they put in the effort.   Its that they either wanted to go Stanford, USC or an Ivy rather than San Diego State, University of Delaware  or their PARENTS wanted them to go to a "good" school that caused this to happen.

Being that going to college is for more than just the immediate "experience", I would hope that most parents would steer their kids away from a party school and towards a school that might get them a bit further in life. Fair or not, a prestige school probably opens a few more doors.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

8 hours ago, merylinkid said:

There's been a lot of "these rich kids are stealing spots from poor deserving kids."  But it was more "Hey this person wants to be on crew, admit them okay."   And the school going "eh okay, whatever, we have these crew spots, so okay."   Its more like if they didn't admit them for crew, then the crew spots weren't taken that year.   Or the plan was for 3000 kids and this was kid 3001 because a coach asked for it.

Even if there were a bunch of crew spots left unfilled, how would you feel if you worked hard to get good grades, score high on the entrance exams, do volunteer work and other activities and applied to Stanford and didn't get accepted and then you find out that some other kids got in because their parents paid, cheated and lied for them? Add to that if you went to a school that didn't even have crew or even if it did, your parents couldn't pay all the fees it might cost or afford to send you to a prep class for the entrance exams? It's not like you'd think, I should have been born to rich, morally bankrupt parents and then I could have gotten in to one of those unfilled crew spots! Oh, well my fault for not having rich parents and cheating. Any one in that situation would be pretty pissed if they really tried and failed to get in and found out other people actually cheated on the tests and lied on their applications and paid bribes to get in and it worked. Of course they can go to another school but like greyflannel pointed out, going to those prestige schools really does open opportunities for you all your life.

3 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I think in Olivia Jade's case it's easy to see she didn't care about school at all and I doubt she is all that smart anyways. 

Olivia Jade really didn't seem to care about school at all. Plus, she used her mother's name to start a business so she probably would have been fine in terms of earning herself a living. Because her mother cared so much about her going to a prestige school, she not only forced her into school when she wasn't interested but completely destroyed her business when the scandal broke.

[WinnieWinkle]

On 3/31/2021 at 7:34 AM, merylinkid said:

Where did you get that they were taking spots from other kids?   that's never been shown.

I can certainly understand the anger and resentment people felt when they heard what these people did but I agree with you the perception that they stole places from more deserving kids is not likely the case.  The kids who I feel really did get cheated are their own children.  Especially the kids who were unaware of what was going on behind their backs.   What a betrayal - your own parents didn't have enough faith in you that you could succeed on your own merits so they cheated on your behalf.  

[MaggieG]

1 hour ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I can certainly understand the anger and resentment people felt when they heard what these people did but I agree with you the perception that they stole places from more deserving kids is not likely the case.  The kids who I feel really did get cheated are their own children.  Especially the kids who were unaware of what was going on behind their backs.   What a betrayal - your own parents didn't have enough faith in you that you could succeed on your own merits so they cheated on your behalf.  

And then the parents ended up going to prison for it. I see some family therapy in the future for some of them.

Parent: "I went to prison!"

Child: "I didn't ask you to bribe anyone!"

[ShelleySue]

On 3/31/2021 at 7:34 AM, merylinkid said:

Where did you get that they were taking spots from other kids?   that's never been shown.   There's been a lot of "these rich kids are stealing spots from poor deserving kids."  But it was more "Hey this person wants to be on crew, admit them okay."   

I'm not going to go into the whole personal story here but I did post some things earlier. This DID happen to my daughter and to a friend of my daughter. I'm not talking about someone like Olivia Jade who has never rowed in her life getting recruited.  I'm talking about when teammate B gets recruited over teammate A when teammate A has better scores, better grades (GPA, more AP classes, etc), All of a sudden the coach starts spending time grooming B and introducing B to colleges coaches and neglecting A.    B gets into the prestigious school and A doesn't. It's not exactly "side door."but there's money changing hands and everyone knows it.

[KAOS Agent]

 

On 3/31/2021 at 5:34 AM, merylinkid said:

Where did you get that they were taking spots from other kids?   that's never been shown. 

This is directly from the court proceedings of Lori Loughlin. Assistant U.S. Attorney Justin O’Connell told the court via Zoom that “Loughlin opted to cheat so her children could steal two admissions spots from more capable, deserving students.” I don't know how much clearer you can get than the prosecutor in the case stating this in court.

[CherryMalotte]

I liked it, wasn't what I was expecting at first, and yeah Matthew Modine...he's only seven years older than me, and no we ain't getting any younger, but he is def a bit rough around the edges.  Hopefully most of that was for this role. 
 

Frankly I think the parents should have been fined what they paid out in bribes, they could certainly afford it.  Then those fines could have been given to various junior colleges and smaller schools for scholarships.  I know education is pricey as hell now but sheesh, think how many other deserving children could go for the total amount of bribes that were paid.  

 

[GaT]

9 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

Frankly I think the parents should have been fined what they paid out in bribes, they could certainly afford it.  Then those fines could have been given to various junior colleges and smaller schools for scholarships.  I know education is pricey as hell now but sheesh, think how many other deserving children could go for the total amount of bribes that were paid.  

I agree, giving them jail time accomplished nothing, but I think they should have been fined a lot more than what they paid in bribes.

[irisheyes]

My oldest went to one of the top high school's in our state, and I will never forget what one of the counselor's said at the senior meeting. Employers focus on where you receive your terminal degree. So, if you have a child who wants to get a graduate degree, then they should pick a good school for undergrad, but they don't need to stress about Harvard or Yale.  It's grad school that's more important. Plus, some schools are easier to transfer into than to be admitted as a freshman. And, there are LOTS of schools out there. I don't know why parents and kids assume that their futures are ruined if they don't get into an Ivy League school.  My oldest is at a state school and getting a good education that will prepare him for his career.

[ShelleySue]

On 4/24/2021 at 6:44 PM, irisheyes said:

My oldest went to one of the top high school's in our state, and I will never forget what one of the counselor's said at the senior meeting. Employers focus on where you receive your terminal degree. So, if you have a child who wants to get a graduate degree, then they should pick a good school for undergrad, but they don't need to stress about Harvard or Yale.  It's grad school that's more important. Plus, some schools are easier to transfer into than to be admitted as a freshman. And, there are LOTS of schools out there. I don't know why parents and kids assume that their futures are ruined if they don't get into an Ivy League school.  My oldest is at a state school and getting a good education that will prepare him for his career.

Yup.  My two oldests did that. My oldest went to one of the topLAS schools in the country and then got her MS from one of the top schools in the world (not an Ivy, but still one of the best schools in the country -- known by its three initials).  My other daughter went to a good school her freshman year and worked her butt off.  She's now getting her PhD at an Ivy. What people don't realize is that if you do well as an undergrad you can get into FUNDED grad programs and not only do you not have to pay a cent, but the schools pay you to attend.  As you can tell from my post above I was (maybe still am) bitter about my daughters not getting into the schools of their dreams as undergrads and I blame it on people with money paying off coaches.  But in the end it all worked out. They got where they are because of their hard work and brains and no one can take any of that away from them.  And I don't have to worry about FBI wiretaps!

As an aside, there are widespread and probably well-founded rumors that Lori Loughlin will be returning to Hallmark's When Calls the Heart for the Season finale in a few weeks.  I watch the show regularly but am not sure if I can watch it if she's on it.  I just keep thinking about her husband threatening that poor guidance counselor.

[WinnieWinkle]

12 minutes ago, ShelleySue said:

.  I just keep thinking about her husband threatening that poor guidance counselor.

Yep.  I can maybe feel that the rest of the things they did were unfair but excuse it in a way because hey the rich are different. (well excuse isn't quite the right word, but understand it I guess) Whole 'nother ballgame when someone behaves the way that man did when someone is just doing their job.  If Loughlin wasn't angry and upset by her husband's behavior in that instance that tells me way more about her than her participating in cheating.  One is wrong, the other is despicably wrong.

[Bastet]

I watched this last night and agree with many of the recurring opinions expressed in this thread: It was well done, it was too sympathetic to the parents, and it properly nailed the schools.  I love it ending by pointing out Singer's side door is closed, but the traditional back door remains open.  I also like it highlighting that Stanford's victim impact statement admitted they're $700,000k richer, and showing the lawyer saying he's never seen another case where the "victim" of a fraud was nearly a million dollars richer because of it.

It was interesting to learn what a lying sleaze Singer had always been (love that one woman who'd been keeping a file of his lies jumping up and down in vindication when the news broke) and how that snowballed into what this became.  If that guy arrested on a totally different matter didn't happen to know about the Yale coach in order to offer him up to the feds, this would still be going on; Singer wasn't on the FBI's radar at all before that.