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Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

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On 5/24/2021 at 1:03 AM, DearEvette said:

With Thomas Gibson it was a culmination of BTS events characterized as "aggressive" or "violent outbursts" enough to get him suspended for a couple of episodes and sent to anger management classes.  But then the hammer finally came when he kicked a writer/producer.  It sounds like, reading between the lines, he had been able to skate away from other aggressive acts where people felt he should have been let go.  But I remember reading that this particular writer was  not content for CBS to handle it quietly.  There was an internal investigation that resulted in him getting fired.  Now, knowing how CBS handles their own internal investigations, in order for him to get fired there must have been something really bad going on.  But anyhoo here is a link:

https://variety.com/2016/tv/news/thomas-gibson-criminal-minds-fired-violent-incident-1201836440/

 

There was also bad blood between Thomas Gibson and fellow CM original cast member Mandy Patinkin going back to their days on Chicago Hope. Who knows how much more violence might have erupted on that set had Patinkin not left CM early on?

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I mean Mandy Patinkin has his own stuff (I know he claims to have chilled out over the years). 

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Drake Bell, who starred on the Nickelodeon sitcom "Drake & Josh," charged with attempted child endangerment and disseminating matter harmful to juveniles.
 

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According to a statement from the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office, in October 2018, a 15-year-old child in the case filed a report with her local police department in Canada about an alleged incident that took place between her and Bell the previous year at a Cleveland nightclub.

Canadian authorities contacted the Cleveland Division of Police, who conducted an investigation, the statement said. That investigation revealed that the victim, who had established a relationship with Bell several years prior, attended his concert in December 2017. While at the concert, Bell allegedly "violated his duty of care and, in doing so, created a risk of harm to the victim," prosecutors said. Bell also allegedly sent the victim inappropriate social media messages, according to investigators.

 

 

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Holy shit this stuff about Drake Bell is disturbing

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Prosecutors said that Mr. Bell engaged in a conversation with a 15-year-old girl that was at times sexual in nature. An investigation by the Cleveland Police Department also revealed that Mr. Bell had sent the girl inappropriate social media messages in the months before the show, the prosecutors said.

.Awful.

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Vanity Fair says Armie Hammer has gone into treatment.

I don't care if he's getting treatment. I don't care about his past trauma. I don't care if he ever feels good about himself. I save all of my sympathy and caring for his victims.

But, I'm going to acknowledge that the dude is seriously fucked up. His mother contacted VF after the first article with this, 

 

It’s Dru Hammer and I want you to know I forgive you for writing such a scathing article on my family. I don’t understand the position of destroying families in the press.

I know it’s your job, but it is very upsetting that you are writing yet another article about Armie and our family and I know it’s not to vindicate our family by all the calls you are making to former alleged mistresses, their former husbands, etc…

It doesn’t seem you want to find the good that God has done in our family. Michael, Misty and I are all very good friends and share our wonderful sons and grandchildren. We love and protect each other. So it is very hurtful the negative way you portrayed my former husband, being a “ne’er do well” when he is a Columbia MBA graduate and has invested the foundation very wisely so he can make a bigger difference in this world.

Not to mention the way you printed “alleged” false accusations against my son.

Every family has “something,” but what I know is these Jewish Hammer men you tore apart in your article have all come to know Jesus as their Messiah. I believe that is why I was placed in that family.

I am asking for mercy and Grace, as Jesus gives all of us and asking you to please stop degrading my family.

Thank you and may God bless your life. Dru

Starting off with new agey denial speak then taking a hard right into anti-Semitism. 

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6 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Vanity Fair says Armie Hammer has gone into treatment.

I don't care if he's getting treatment. I don't care about his past trauma. I don't care if he ever feels good about himself. I save all of my sympathy and caring for his victims.

But, I'm going to acknowledge that the dude is seriously fucked up. His mother contacted VF after the first article with this, 

 

It’s Dru Hammer and I want you to know I forgive you for writing such a scathing article on my family. I don’t understand the position of destroying families in the press.

I know it’s your job, but it is very upsetting that you are writing yet another article about Armie and our family and I know it’s not to vindicate our family by all the calls you are making to former alleged mistresses, their former husbands, etc…

It doesn’t seem you want to find the good that God has done in our family. Michael, Misty and I are all very good friends and share our wonderful sons and grandchildren. We love and protect each other. So it is very hurtful the negative way you portrayed my former husband, being a “ne’er do well” when he is a Columbia MBA graduate and has invested the foundation very wisely so he can make a bigger difference in this world.

Not to mention the way you printed “alleged” false accusations against my son.

Every family has “something,” but what I know is these Jewish Hammer men you tore apart in your article have all come to know Jesus as their Messiah. I believe that is why I was placed in that family.

I am asking for mercy and Grace, as Jesus gives all of us and asking you to please stop degrading my family.

Thank you and may God bless your life. Dru

Starting off with new agey denial speak then taking a hard right into anti-Semitism. 

She gives forgiveness that no one asked for, but no apology because "Every family has “something".” A model Christian.

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57 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Vanity Fair says Armie Hammer has gone into treatment.

I don't care if he's getting treatment. I don't care about his past trauma. I don't care if he ever feels good about himself. I save all of my sympathy and caring for his victims.

But, I'm going to acknowledge that the dude is seriously fucked up. His mother contacted VF after the first article with this, 

 

It’s Dru Hammer and I want you to know I forgive you for writing such a scathing article on my family. I don’t understand the position of destroying families in the press.

I know it’s your job, but it is very upsetting that you are writing yet another article about Armie and our family and I know it’s not to vindicate our family by all the calls you are making to former alleged mistresses, their former husbands, etc…

It doesn’t seem you want to find the good that God has done in our family. Michael, Misty and I are all very good friends and share our wonderful sons and grandchildren. We love and protect each other. So it is very hurtful the negative way you portrayed my former husband, being a “ne’er do well” when he is a Columbia MBA graduate and has invested the foundation very wisely so he can make a bigger difference in this world.

Not to mention the way you printed “alleged” false accusations against my son.

Every family has “something,” but what I know is these Jewish Hammer men you tore apart in your article have all come to know Jesus as their Messiah. I believe that is why I was placed in that family.

I am asking for mercy and Grace, as Jesus gives all of us and asking you to please stop degrading my family.

Thank you and may God bless your life. Dru

Starting off with new agey denial speak then taking a hard right into anti-Semitism. 

I guess Mrs. Hammer doesn't want to have to face the fact  (and/ or have others conclude) that someone she bore & raised and possibly may have contributed to the character of could actually have flaws (and if her ex is so wonderful why is he her ex instead of her current spouse).   . 

BTW, I hope someone points out to her that Jesus frequently condemned  hypocrites! 

Edited by Blergh
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2 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

"Every family has “something".” A model Christian.

What Armie is accused of is a lot more than "something".

From a one second google search:

Dru Hammer is from Tulsa, Oklahoma, and a graduate of Oklahoma State University. Dru was the corporate secretary and board member of the Armand Hammer Foundation for twenty-two years. For nine years, she worked with the Los Angeles Dream Center, ministering in women's discipleship and victims of human trafficking.

I get that she loves her son but can she continue to love him without excusing or denying what he has done. Would she be so dismissive of any victims she ministered to at the LA Dream Center?

Edited by ifionlyknew
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2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Every family has “something,”

Why am I having flashbacks to the Duggar scandal a few years back where those fundies claimed that almost every family dealt with issues like molestation and incest?  

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2 hours ago, Blergh said:

these Jewish Hammer men you tore apart in your article have all come to know Jesus as their Messiah. I believe that is why I was placed in that family.

Yikes! 

The part that amuses me about the every “family has something” is that the VF was a detailed article about how many different people in the family were fucked up and not just Armie. 

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3 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Why am I having flashbacks to the Duggar scandal a few years back where those fundies claimed that almost every family dealt with issues like molestation and incest?  

It's beginning to look like a lot of those families do.

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4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Every family has “something,” but what I know is these Jewish Hammer men you tore apart in your article have all come to know Jesus as their Messiah. I believe that is why I was placed in that family.

Oh, she's a missionary! Of course, marrying the rich oil heir, Michael Armand Hammer, was all about saving him from the fire and brimstone that awaited him as a Jew. Who could ever doubt her righteousness?

4 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

She gives forgiveness that no one asked for, but no apology because "Every family has “something".” A model Christian.

Well yes, in families like hers -  supposedly devoutly Christian but clearly following the Gospel of Getting Rich and Staying Rich - there often is "something." It might be tax fraud, it might be philandering, or it might be child abuse or cannibalism. It's incredibly unfair to judge them on these little peccadilloes!

I can't imagine a letter less likely to help her son than this, but she already strikes me as a woman who thinks of herself first and others never.

Edited by Danny Franks
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Was it illegal? No. Am I creeped out and think it's gross and predatory? Yes. 

You also gotta love the tactic of saying that Aaron's just an old soul at heart and he was so determined to "win" her. Way to shift blame on your grooming victim, Sam!

Let me say though that if we were talking about a 25-year old and a 47-year old getting together, I'd give it a sideways glance but I wouldn't find it predatory because a 25-year old is a fully formed adult. But 18? What grown woman looks at an 18-year old employee of hers and thinks he's a mature man you want to ditch your husband and family for? 

Edited by methodwriter85
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40 minutes ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Dru Hammer can step right the fuck off with her Divine Mission to bring Jesus to the Jews.

I highly doubt any of us will be inspired by her sales pitch. She can kiss my seder's ass.

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I’m Christian and praying she switches to another team. But then, that would be saddling another religion with her, and not fair to that other religion. 

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21 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Vanity Fair says Armie Hammer has gone into treatment.

I don't care if he's getting treatment. I don't care about his past trauma. I don't care if he ever feels good about himself. I save all of my sympathy and caring for his victims.

But, I'm going to acknowledge that the dude is seriously fucked up. His mother contacted VF after the first article with this, 

 

It’s Dru Hammer and I want you to know I forgive you for writing such a scathing article on my family. I don’t understand the position of destroying families in the press.

I know it’s your job, but it is very upsetting that you are writing yet another article about Armie and our family and I know it’s not to vindicate our family by all the calls you are making to former alleged mistresses, their former husbands, etc…

It doesn’t seem you want to find the good that God has done in our family. Michael, Misty and I are all very good friends and share our wonderful sons and grandchildren. We love and protect each other. So it is very hurtful the negative way you portrayed my former husband, being a “ne’er do well” when he is a Columbia MBA graduate and has invested the foundation very wisely so he can make a bigger difference in this world.

Not to mention the way you printed “alleged” false accusations against my son.

Every family has “something,” but what I know is these Jewish Hammer men you tore apart in your article have all come to know Jesus as their Messiah. I believe that is why I was placed in that family.

I am asking for mercy and Grace, as Jesus gives all of us and asking you to please stop degrading my family.

Thank you and may God bless your life. Dru

Starting off with new agey denial speak then taking a hard right into anti-Semitism. 

Sounds like someone is trying to protect an alimony check.

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15 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Was it illegal? No. Am I creeped out and think it's gross and predatory? Yes. 

You also gotta love the tactic of saying that Aaron's just an old soul at heart and he was so determined to "win" her. Way to shift blame on your grooming victim, Sam!

Let me say though that if we were talking about a 25-year old and a 47-year old getting together, I'd give it a sideways glance but I wouldn't find it predatory because a 25-year old is a fully formed adult. But 18? What grown woman looks at an 18-year old employee of hers and thinks he's a mature man you want to ditch your husband and family for? 

I'm certainly not pro-relationships with such a huge age difference, especially when they begin like Aaron and Sam TJ. However, it's been 11 years, they have two kids together. Both of their careers are going well. Neither of them is reported to have serious issues, alcohol or drugs. She's not cycling through younger man after younger man. There are many, many other relationships that I find more disturbing. I think that this one just gets more attention because she's the older woman and it's not the "usual" older man/younger woman relationship.

Also, most of the "tea" I could find on him relates to people being ready to date him once he's free of that "dried up old pussy." And quite frankly, FUCK THAT. 

So yeah, I can't work up much feeling on this one. Yes, it started in a disturbing way. It's been a decade. They seem happy. Let it go.

Also, the faux outrage voice in that video makes me want to punch that dude in the face. 

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Cue my surprise. Oh wait I am not! Tons of people thought he shouldn’t have even been fired FOR JACKING OFF AT WORK DURING A MEETING WITH HIS COWORKERS!!!! I am not surprised but out of angry caps!

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I still can't wrap my head around why he needed to jack off sooo badly he couldn't go away from the computer. Like, did the meeting get him so turned on he just had to pull one off the second he "thought" he left the meeting? 

I've been working from home for over a year now, and we do video meetings/calls. I am so paranoid of that little camera that the second the meeting is over I put black electrical tape over it and even then I go into the bedroom when it's time to give myself a little afternoon delight. lol

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35 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Like, did the meeting get him so turned on he just had to pull one off the second he "thought" he left the meeting? 

I believe speculation because no one knows what happened on his end is that he was watching porn/sexting a mistress. 

He is a known cheater and had previously gotten in trouble for trying to force his colleague/woman he was having an affair with into having an abortion, she didn’t he tried to skirt a DNA test, “surprise” the kid was his. He is an absolute piece of shit who has done amazingly unprofessional shit repeatedly and yet after 8 months he is back on the air. I believe in the last thread I said he would be back in under a year.

Edited by biakbiak
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4 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I believe speculation because no one knows what happened on his end is that he was watching porn/sexting a mistress. 

He is a known cheater and had previously gotten in trouble for trying to force his colleague/woman he was having an affair with into having an abortion:

How many more chances does this guy get? Others have been cancelled for a lot less.

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17 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

How many more chances does this guy get? Others have been cancelled for a lot less.

I wonder how many of his colleagues will be slapping him on the back and toasting him for how successfully he managed to pull this off.

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I'm not trying trivialize what happened with Toobin, but re-watching the Toobin zoom call, there is almost a sitcom-esque vibe to everyone's reaction to it. First you have the white guy in the bottom left somewhat realizing what could be happening long before the other people in the zoom call do. Then the woman above him and the woman in the center start freaking out, then the rest start reacting like dominoes. And then you have the guy in the top center showing to someone else in the room what is going on...

Not judging any of them, because I'm sure if this ever happened to me, my reaction would probably mirror theirs, a mix of disgust and "WTF is this actually happening?"

Sorry, it's a slow Saturday afternoon here.

 

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Yep. My favorite part of this story, as quoted in this Huffpost article, is when his lawyers tried to claim he wouldn't get the same quality of care if he was moved.

Quote

“It’s Los Angeles. It’s not some remote outpost that doesn’t have any sort of medical care,” Assistant District Attorney Colleen Curtin Gable argued.

Also, have we seen this statistic before? "In total, more than 80 women across the U.S. and Europe have accused Weinstein of sexual assault." 👀

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Another take on the Aaron Taylor-Johnson grooming situation. I found this particular take to be more nuanced and measured than the previous video take I posted.

 

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I'm certainly not pro-relationships with such a huge age difference, especially when they begin like Aaron and Sam TJ. However, it's been 11 years, they have two kids together. Both of their careers are going well. Neither of them is reported to have serious issues, alcohol or drugs. She's not cycling through younger man after younger man. There are many, many other relationships that I find more disturbing. I think that this one just gets more attention because she's the older woman and it's not the "usual" older man/younger woman relationship.

I mean, Kevin Kline and Phoebe Cates have been happily married for many years and have two kids and I still find it weird. I'm not saying it can never work but I don't think we should normalize these kinds of relationships just because they are technically consenting adults. The age difference between Alex Trebek and his second wife was also jarring to me. The times this is going to be an unhealthy dynamic are vastly going to outweigh the times it is fine. And obviously it is worse the younger one partner is and if there is any kind of student/teacher, employer/employee, etc. dynamic. 

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Stephen Fry and Elliot Spencer, who married at 57 and 27. They've been married for several years now and I don't think there's been any unsavory gossip but I would side-eye any relationship with a 30 year gap. Especially when they're in the same industry and the older partner was already well established.

Also while looking up celebrity marriages with large age differences because I couldn't remember their names at first, Jerry Hall and Rupert Murdoch are married? They are currently 65 and 90 I believe. Per the article Jerry enjoyed keeping a 'stable' of younger lovers at times.

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5 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I mean, Kevin Kline and Phoebe Cates have been happily married for many years and have two kids and I still find it weird

Wait what?!?!?  They met during a screen test for The BiG Chill, she didn’t get the role. He was just an actor on his second film (his first film role was literally the year before in  Sophie’s Choice-not a blockbuster)she was 20 years old when they met and had tons  more screen credits including her iconic role  in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Why is their relationship included in this thread? 

Edited by biakbiak
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1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Wait what?!?!?  They met during a screen test for The BiG Chill, she didn’t get the role. He was just an actor on the second film (his first film role was literally the year before in  Sophie’s Choice-not a blockbuster)she was 20 years old when they met and had tons  more screen credits including her iconic role  in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Why is their relationship included in this thread? 

Because of the age gap of around 15 years.

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1 minute ago, bobalina said:

Because of the age gap of around 15 years.

So adults meeting each other despite no power dynamic are considered predatory based on their age difference? Yeah I don’t get that.

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6 hours ago, biakbiak said:

So adults meeting each other despite no power dynamic are considered predatory based on their age difference? Yeah I don’t get that.

My late husband was 14 yrs older than me. We met when i was 30 and he was 44. I was not his prey.

I'm not going to judge any relationship that has a big age difference.   Now of course if it is an 18 yr old with a 60 yr old I'm going to think WTF is going on but still not place to judge. 

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Yeah, Kevin Kline and Phoebe Cates don’t belong on this thread. Never heard a bad thing about Kevin Kline, and as stated earlier, two consenting adults with an age difference in a relationship does not automatically equal a power imbalance. They’re still happily married, I say good for them.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

So adults meeting each other despite no power dynamic are considered predatory based on their age difference? Yeah I don’t get that.

Me neither.

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I don't believe all May/December relationships are automatically icky... but too many of them are. Sometimes people genuinely love each other, age difference be damned, and it's not just some predatory "December" gettin' some hot, young "May" tail. As previously mentioned, Kevin Kline and Phoebe Cates are a good, healthy example.

I take issue when the younger party in question is either underage (ew) or of legal age, but only just barely (minor improvement, but still ew). When the younger party is a tried and true adult, I say there is absolutely no harm, no foul. C.S. Lewis was nearly 20 years older than Joy Davidman, but at the start of their relationship, she was in her late 30s and a divorced mother of two; she was a woman, not a girl. Hugh Jackman married Deborra-Lee Furness (who's 13 years older) when he was 28, which is plenty old enough to know what you want and what you're doing.

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55 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

 

I take issue when the younger party in question is either underage (ew) or of legal age, but only just barely (minor improvement, but still ew). 

Yeah especially when paired with a power imbalance (teacher/student, boss/employee). 

I went to college with a couple of girls who ended up marrying much older guys. One has about a 25-30 year age difference and the other is 40. I thought both of them had daddy issues in school, so I can't say I'm surprised but I was still sort of shocked when I saw pictures of them with their husbands.

But both of them got married in their mid to late 20s to guys who were not their bosses or professors. I find it a little baffling because I can't say i find either of the men in question attractive or desirable, but I also can't say I inherently find the relationships predatory. If they're happy, who am I to judge. 

I'd feel very differently with those age gaps, though, if the relationships had started when either of those women were teenagers. 

Edited by Zella
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51 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'd feel very differently with those age gaps, though, if the relationships had started when either of those women were teenagers. 

That is where I fall in this debate. Age difference isn't automatically bad, some people are old souls, some young at heart, and everyone matures at a different pace. 

It becomes icky when one is a grown, established professional, good job, house, settled into "adulthood" while the other is a teenager who hasn't gone to college, lived on their own, paid bills, basically been an adult at all. It makes me wonder what the true attraction is. Not so say these relationships can't work, but the odds are against them. 

Where it becomes predatory is when one is in a position of power over the other, be it a boss/immediate underling, teacher/student, or even worse (Woody!) step-parent/step-child. And to me the idea of one waiting for the other to have that magical birthday that will make it legal to fuck them is just...if you have to wait for a specific date to pass, maybe take that time to really think about what you are doing. 

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"Men who date girls who are 18 are like employers who pay minimum wage. If they could legally go lower... they would."

Re-read my comment. I said, I personally find it weird and, while it can work, it shouldn't be normalized just because they are consenting (technically) adults. I agree that when the younger partner is in their late 20's, 30's, etc. the age gap is less questionable.

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While there is no science behind it, I generally consider the "half your age plus 7"rule to be a good indicator of what should be a minimal age for a partner, because it keeps the age range smaller when people are young and larger for older people.

As was already said, another factor is a possible power dynamic, when it comes to teacher/student, boss/employee, or doctor/patient. Another thing is, how old were the people when they met for the first time - a difference of for example 23 and 30 is ok, but if the people in question met 10 years earlier, because the younger person is a sibling of the older person's friend and they were frequently around each other, it becomes a bit weird to me.

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