Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[BlackberryJam]

The entire situation is tragic and the people involved had few options. One thing seems clear. Clark Gable did not do one damn thing to help. 

[Kromm]

42 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

The entire situation is tragic and the people involved had few options. One thing seems clear. Clark Gable did not do one damn thing to help. 

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn". 

[WinnieWinkle]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Her relatives didn't claim Gable raped Young, until after both Ms. Young, and Judy Lewis were dead.    I see the claim as another way to preserve Ms. Young's image. 

That's the thing really - the only people who know for sure what happened are both dead.  Everyone and his uncle is perfectly free to interpret things exactly as they want to.  Make Young look like a victim and Gable a terrible person, sure who's to say you're wrong now?  Turn things around and make Young look like a selfish person only interested in her public image and to hell with everyone else.  Why not?  Especially since few people today, let's be honest, even really know who Loretta Young is!

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, WinnieWinkle said:

That's the thing really - the only people who know for sure what happened are both dead.  Everyone and his uncle is perfectly free to interpret things exactly as they want to.  Make Young look like a victim and Gable a terrible person, sure who's to say you're wrong now?  Turn things around and make Young look like a selfish person only interested in her public image and to hell with everyone else.  Why not?  Especially since few people today, let's be honest, even really know who Loretta Young is!

True- and, despite having had  a very successful career  spanned from her childhood until her mid 70's, most folks under 60 who DO know who Loretta Young was only know it via the fact that her firstborn child was conceived with Clark Gable AND that she went to a great deal of trouble to hide that fact from the world even after she later brought said child back into her home until she herself knew she was dying and only confirmed the obvious (since Miss Lewis had an uncanny resemblence to her- save for her original Gable ears) in a postmortemly published book. Ironically, she's best (if not only) known for the ONE thing she'd have rather at the time stayed a secret more than anything else. 

[bobalina]

6 hours ago, praeceptrix said:

Do you have a citation for the abortion?

From the little I know, there were many rumors about Rappe, but nothing conclusive. Her wikipedia entry says that the autopsy proved that the rumor of Ms. Rappe having had a child in 1918 was false, but given the source (an article in the Sausalito News quoting the District Attorney prosecuting Arbuckle) I am not sure how trustworthy it is without seeing the actual autopsy report. The Arbuckle entry states that the autopsy showed that she had never had a child or an abortion, but doesn't provide a citation.

It's clear that the media had a field day (and made lots of money selling papers) publishing nasty stories about both Rappe and Arbuckle, but not much in the way of verifiable facts. 

I can't remember but have read several books about the incident and the scandals of that era  and slightly newer scandals and they pretty much all talk about it.

[WinnieWinkle]

20 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Ironically, she's best (if not only) known for the ONE thing she'd have rather at the time stayed a secret more than anything else. 

To  be honest I never knew any of this, what I know her from is Come to the Stable which is a movie my mother loved so we saw it a lot, especially once VCRs came out.

[kieyra]

I feel like I'm ten years old again and reading my parents' copy of Hollywood Babylon.

(Which clearly I should not have been reading at ten.)

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

True- and, despite having had  a very successful career  spanned from her childhood until her mid 70's, most folks under 60 who DO know who Loretta Young was only know it via the fact that her firstborn child was conceived with Clark Gable AND that she went to a great deal of trouble to hide that fact from the world even after she later brought said child back into her home until she herself knew she was dying and only confirmed the obvious (since Miss Lewis had an uncanny resemblence to her- save for her original Gable ears) in a postmortemly published book. Ironically, she's best (if not only) known for the ONE thing she'd have rather at the time stayed a secret more than anything else. 

This is true. I'm in my early 30s and would like to think I'm pretty familiar with old movies and Old Hollywood, just because I like to watch classic movies and read about the time period. But I only know of Loretta Young because of the scandal over her daughter's parentage. I even checked her filmography yesterday to see if I'd seen anything she was in, and it just didn't ring a bell. Some of that may be genre because I tend to watch the old noir and Westerns more than anything else but still. 

[ABay]

Speaking of Hollywood Babylon, You Must Remember This did a series of episodes fact-checking it. The episode about Arbuckle & Rappe is here. Karina Longworth, the creator of the podcast, always cited her sources so anyone wanting to read more could start there.

The only mention of Loretta Young on the YMRT site is a brief aside in the Spencer Tracy entry. I heard the Gable story a long time ago, and also the story of the swear jar, but The Bishop's Wife is how I first became aware of Young and it's still the thing I most associate her with. I mean, poor Loretta in that movie! Having to endure being married to David Niven and being escorted around town by Cary Grant! How much can one woman take?

ETA: scroll down or do a CTRL F search for Loretta on that swear jar link. there are 2 stories--one about Robert Mitchum and one about Ethel Merman.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by ABay

[MissAlmond]

13 hours ago, Zella said:

But I only know of Loretta Young because of the scandal over her daughter's parentage. I even checked her filmography yesterday to see if I'd seen anything she was in, and it just didn't ring a bell.

Loretta Young is wonderful in The Bishop's Wife.  It's become one of my must-see movies during Christmas time.  

[Lady Whistleup]

Kate Winslet says a lot of actors are still hiding their sexuality.

https://pagesix.com/2021/04/05/kate-winslet-knows-actors-hiding-sexuality-over-homophobia/?_ga=2.56964650.125007426.1615308047-972973328.1615308047

I can guess who she might be talking about. Several A-list actors ...

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Kate Winslet says a lot of actors are still hiding their sexuality.

https://pagesix.com/2021/04/05/kate-winslet-knows-actors-hiding-sexuality-over-homophobia/?_ga=2.56964650.125007426.1615308047-972973328.1615308047

I can guess who she might be talking about. Several A-list actors ...

I don't think the homophobia in Hollywood is rife in the creative circles - actors, writers, directors, crew members probably mostly wouldn't care. But, as Winslet points out, executives absolutely would. "How do I sell this gay guy as a leading man? Impossible!" The execs probably care way more than the audience do, at this point.

I'm reminded of Lito, in Sense8, who hides the fact he's gay because he knows that a gay man cannot be an action star in Mexico. He knows certain things are expected of a leading man - machismo, toughness, charm and the ability to seduce any stupendously beautiful woman in the movie - and that a gay man simply wouldn't fit those expectations for the executives, or the audience for his movies.

It's not that he felt the homophobia would kill his career completely, and he did still get offers after he came out, but they were all for stereotypically 'gay' roles - comic relief or deliberately demeaning effeminate characters. Even his eventual success story of securing a role in a serious and worthy Hollywood movie isn't a true success story. He's still playing a gay character, it's just a well written role.

Which is all kind of funny when you consider that Brian J. Smith, a gay man, plays a straight, action and romantic hero role in Sense8 and is fucking great at it.

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't think the homophobia in Hollywood is rife in the creative circles - actors, writers, directors, crew members probably mostly wouldn't care. But, as Winslet points out, executives absolutely would. "How do I sell this gay guy as a leading man? Impossible!" The execs probably care way more than the audience do, at this point.

Agreed, it's the "suits" that have the issue. Personally, I don't care if a gay man plays a strait man or a straight woman plays a lesbian, so long as they play the role convincingly. It is only with the really big stars that I get distracted by who the actor is. Otherwise, their personal life and preferences have no bearing on their character.

I just find it really, really sad that this is still an issue for some people. It's acting. The entirety of their job is to convince us they are someone they are not so their sexual orientation shouldn't make a damned bit of difference, so long as they do their research and make it believable. 

Half the time when I find out an actor is gay I might be surprised, but it doesn't chance how I feel about any role they did or will do. 

[Lady Whistleup]

I think the exec pearl clutching about gay actors playing straight roles is one of those things only execs care about. When people fire up a movie on Netflix do they go to IMDB to check if the actor is gay? I don;t think so.

I also think that for some A-list actors they've been bearding for so long they don't know how to come out if that makes sense. There are a couple A-list actors who have either lavender marriages or reputations as "womanizers" and they don't know how to break the wheel.

[Vermicious Knid]

Quote

"How do I sell this gay guy as a leading man?

Neil Patrick Harris won multiple Emmys playing an unrepentant womanizer. Straight actors pretend to be in relationships as part of their job all the time. What does it matter the sex/gender of the person they're playing against? It's all acting.

[Hiyo]

Someone give this man a few liters of water already...

Piers Morgan claims he has 'universal support' of British public in Tucker Carlson interview.

Also, not quite sure if he understands what universal means...

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Someone give this man a few liters of water already...

Piers Morgan claims he has 'universal support' of British public in Tucker Carlson interview.

Also, not quite sure if he understands what universal means...

He definitely doesn't understand what universal means! I am the British public and I loathe him with every fibre of my being - so even if I were the only one to feel that way, his support would not be universal because it doesn't include me. But I don't know anyone who doesn't hate him, so...

[Blergh]

5 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Someone give this man a few liters of water already...

Piers Morgan claims he has 'universal support' of British public in Tucker Carlson interview.

Also, not quite sure if he understands what universal means...

Talk about scum seeking its own level. ..

[bosawks]

6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Someone give this man a few liters of water already...

Piers Morgan claims he has 'universal support' of British public in Tucker Carlson interview.

Also, not quite sure if he understands what universal means...

I mean, in the world Tucker Carlson occupies he probably does have universal support......

[Spartan Girl]

In case you needed more proof Joss Whedon is a piece of shit:

He threatened both Gal Gadot’s career and Patty Jenkins’ while filming Justice League

[Lady Whistleup]

Story about Scott Rudin.

[biakbiak]

6 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Story about Scott Rudin.

 

[Irlandesa]

"It's always the guy you most expect" is the perfect tweet. 

And I never knew Swimming With Sharks* was based on Scott but as soon as he mentioned a movie based on him, I guessed which movie it was.

*Stars Kevin Spacey but it's still a great movie.

 

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Stars Kevin Spacey but it's still a great movie.

It is. Apparently it’s on Prime might have to give it a rewatch. 

[Robert Lynch]

Lance Armstrong's son, Luke, charged with sexual assault of a 16 year old minor back in 2018

[Robert Lynch]

Charlyne Yi said she tried to quit The Disaster Artist due to the James Franco allegations and says Seth Rogan is an enabler 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Robert Lynch

[aradia22]

Quote

Here;s a simple solution -- Don't sext strangers.   Then you don't have to worry about their ages.  

I mean, yes. But also 1) don't try to date people who reach out on social media saying they're fans. You know there's going to be a power imbalance. 2) don't try to date people who look like children and not adults

And since he has no issue with going out in a pandemic, it's not like social media was his only avenue for meeting people.

Quote

This is true. I'm in my early 30s and would like to think I'm pretty familiar with old movies and Old Hollywood, just because I like to watch classic movies and read about the time period. But I only know of Loretta Young because of the scandal over her daughter's parentage. I even checked her filmography yesterday to see if I'd seen anything she was in, and it just didn't ring a bell. Some of that may be genre because I tend to watch the old noir and Westerns more than anything else but still. 

The only films of hers I recognize the titles of are The Bishop's Wife and Rachel and the Stranger. And I haven't seen either. I don't think she made very notable films. Maybe her Pre-Code (and pre-Gable) career was more interesting but very few of those movies have been preserved. 

Quote

I think the exec pearl clutching about gay actors playing straight roles is one of those things only execs care about. When people fire up a movie on Netflix do they go to IMDB to check if the actor is gay? I don;t think so.

I might do the opposite if I'm watching a movie like Vita & Virginia or Professor Marston and the Wonder Women wondering why it feels so awkward and hetero. I may also look up the director and screenwriter too.

[Vermicious Knid]

I'd like to see a different movie about the people behind Wonder Woman because the story is fascinating, but that movie absolutely did not do them justice.

Speaking of taking advantage of fans, Mark Kozelek of Sun Kil Moon, an indie musician I believe, has been accused of abusive relationships going back two decades. I find Pitchfork extremely annoying most of the time but this article is well sourced, with the women's stories presented individually and corroborated when possible. Also very disturbing.

[aradia22]

Not verified but here is a twitter thread from someone whose brother apparently used to work for Scott Rudin. To put another face to the trauma and abuse. CW: suicide

 

[xaxat]

Broadway producer Scott Rudin steps aside amid accusations of abusive behavior going back decades, apologizes for pain he caused

Something tells me that "apology" was the work of his publicist and lawyer.

[Irlandesa]

43 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Broadway producer Scott Rudin steps aside amid accusations of abusive behavior going back decades, apologizes for pain he caused

Something tells me that "apology" was the work of his publicist and lawyer.

Yeah.  No one is an asshole for years and years and changes immediately once they've been called on it. 

 

[BW Manilowe]

On 4/5/2021 at 9:18 PM, Vermicious Knid said:

Neil Patrick Harris won multiple Emmys playing an unrepentant womanizer

Actually Neil Patrick Harris has only been nominated for multiple Emmys for playing an unrepentant womanizer. He’s won 5 Emmys, yes. But, according to the Emmys’ website, 4 are for his hosting gigs on the 63rd, 65th, 66th, & 67th Annual Tony Awards & the 5th is for a guest appearance he did on Glee.

Edited April 18, 2021 by BW Manilowe
To fix italics usage.

[bijoux]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:08 PM, Robert Lynch said:

Lance Armstrong's son, Luke, charged with sexual assault of a 16 year old minor back in 2018

From the article:

[QUOTE] They minimized and said Franco being a predator [B] was so last year[/B] and that he changed[/QUOTE] 

My palm is itching so hard to slap the asses who said this. Could they have found a more dismissive way to do it? I honestly can't think of one. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by bijoux

[aradia22]

Quote

Over the past week, a half dozen people involved with Broadway's The Music Man converged on multiple conference calls to discuss Scott Rudin's involvement in the upcoming play in light of abuse allegations made against the uber-producer in a THR cover story 10 days ago.

A source familiar with the calls says Music Man star Hugh Jackman was “very concerned” about the claims, which included on-the-record depictions of physical abuse and “what it would look like moving forward” with Rudin in a visible role. The source says that Jackman never made any ultimatums or threatened to leave the show that is poised to kick off Broadway's return after a debilitating shutdown due to the coronavirus pandemic but did express his position that something needed to be done.

By contrast, Jackman's co-star Sutton Foster did take a stand and said she would leave the highly anticipated musical if Rudin didn't take a seat, says another knowledgeable source.

Quote

Meanwhile, it remains unclear what Rudin means by "active participation." A representative for the producer did not elaborate on the phrase. A number of former staffers dubbed the gesture as hollow. "This guy’s not stepping aside from anything. Clever try though," says one alum. The statement also did not address Rudin's presence in the film industry, where he has a number of films on the horizon including next month's Amy Adams starrer The Woman in the Window for Netflix as well as Jennifer Lawrence's Red, White and Water for A24.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/behind-scott-rudins-move-to-step-back-from-broadway-productions?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[aradia22]

The sound is really terrible and there's also an echo. But here's Sutton Foster talking about The Music Man and addressing why she didn't post on social media.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Scott Rudin friend Rob Roth dropping out of directing UK tour of Beauty and the Beast after misogynistic email:

Quote

Roth, who was set to helm the upcoming UK tour of Beauty and the Beast, penned an email to Rudin while on a flight, which was transcribed by the passenger next to him. In reference to Karen Olivo, who just announced that she would not return to her role in Moulin Rouge!, Roth wrote that Rudin should receive "an honorary Tony for somehow getting that horrible woman to quit acting. God bless you Scott for your service to American theatre."

When the email was made public, Roth confirmed his words and officially stepped down from his involvement in Beauty and the Beast.

Or; Don't write nasty emails where people can look over your shoulder.

[Jaded]

 

[Pink ranger]

For a split second I though that that picture of Masterson was Hannibal Lecter!

A single simple pleasure due to this pandemic.

[Zella]

7 hours ago, Pink ranger said:

For a split second I though that that picture of Masterson was Hannibal Lecter!

A single simple pleasure due to this pandemic.

I don't know if that's from the same court appearance I last saw pics of or if it's just the same mask he always wears, but every time I see it, I do a double-take and wonder why he has a jockstrap on his face. 

[Jaded]

This is a whole thread over on Twitter. Sorry about the last tweet showing some of the same content as the one above it.

 

 

 

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

This is a whole thread over on Twitter. Sorry about the last tweet showing some of the same content as the one above it.

 

 

 

Even outside of Masterson, and even just sticking to people adjacent to show business, Scientology could provide endless fodder for this thread. They do do much fucked up shit relative to controlling, codling, and protecting their celebrity members, it's mind boggling. Both Cruise and Travolta have major untold or undertold stories in this veign that will probably never all come out. 

[Zella]

8 hours ago, Kromm said:

Even outside of Masterson, and even just sticking to people adjacent to show business, Scientology could provide endless fodder for this thread. They do do much fucked up shit relative to controlling, codling, and protecting their celebrity members, it's mind boggling. Both Cruise and Travolta have major untold or undertold stories in this veign that will probably never all come out. 

For sure. I read a lot of really fucked-up nonfiction, and I read a lot about cults. But the stuff I read about Scientology in Going Clear is some of the most fucked-up shit I've ever read, bar none. 

[Mabinogia]

I could maybe buy that Leah heard about the rapes and convinced the women to go to the police to press charges but I don't think the charges are made up. I think that she might have just supported these women and made them feel that someone might actually listen to them. 

Masterson can suck it! Scientology makes me so mad. Just, everything about it. Grrrr

[BetterButter]

Scott Rudin, As Told by His Assistants

Quote

A portrait of a toxic workplace.

 

[Cotypubby]

On 4/20/2021 at 3:28 AM, Vermicious Knid said:

Scott Rudin friend Rob Roth dropping out of directing UK tour of Beauty and the Beast after misogynistic email:

Or; Don't write nasty emails where people can look over your shoulder.

Where is the misogyny in what he wrote because I am not seeing it in the part that’s quoted?

[Vermicious Knid]

He denigrated a woman by calling her horrible and said she should quit acting. The Merriam-Webster definition of misogyny: hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women, also : something (such as speech or behavior) that reflects and fosters misogyny.

NYC theater community holds 'March on Broadway' to oust Scott Rudin, combat racism, inequality.

[Hiyo]

That one incident taken on its own is a bit of a stretch as an example.

[MargeGunderson]

14 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Scott Rudin, As Told by His Assistants

 

That was a crazy read!

[WinnieWinkle]

18 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I could maybe buy that Leah heard about the rapes and convinced the women to go to the police to press charges but I don't think the charges are made up. I think that she might have just supported these women and made them feel that someone might actually listen to them. 

This effort to make Remini seem like she could exert more power  than she actually could ever have in the real world reminds me of the Allen supporters.  The ones who make it seem like Mia Farrow is a mythical being who can manipulate all others to bend to her will.   It's mind boggling really.  If these women have this kind of power why aren't they running a small country by now?

Edited April 23, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Vermicious Knid]

Yes, calling an actor a 'horrible woman' and celebrating another man saying negative things about her is misogyny. Because someone doesn't say the specific words "I hate women" it's not? You have heard of microaggressions I hope.

Philip Roth and the sympathetic biographer: This is how misogyny gets cemented in our culture.

Quote

This is how a misogynistic culture is conceptualized, created, cultivated and codified. It doesn’t happen because one dude does a bad thing. It happens when like-minded dudes are allowed to be one another’s gatekeepers, and the gatekeepers of broader culture, when faults are allowed to go unexamined, and so they instead spread: Harvey Weinstein dictated the content of movie theaters for decades; it turns out he was abusing women all along. Roger Ailes, Charlie Rose and Matt Lauer shaped coverage and discussion of sexual misconduct scandals throughout the 1990s and 2000s; they were later accused of sexual misconduct themselves....

I can’t help thinking about how readers and viewers have been repeatedly presented narratives as the factual observations of great minds rather than as the ax-grinding of men whose judgment on gender relations might be questionable.