Murder Among The Mormons - General Discussion

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Murder Among the Mormons is the first comprehensive look at one of the most shocking crimes to have ever taken place among the Mormon community and the criminal mastermind behind it all.The three-part documentary series directed by Jared Hess (Napoleon Dynamite) and Tyler Measom (An Honest Liar), examines a trio of bombings in 1985 that killed two people and shocked Salt Lake City.The murders send further shockwaves through the community when a trove of early Mormon letters and diaries are found destroyed in the vehicle of the third victim, a renowned collector of rare documents, including the infamous White Salamander Letter — an artifact whose contents threatened to shake the very foundations of Mormonism. As he fights for his life, investigators race to uncover the truth.

Promo:

Original air date: 3/3/21

[Jeeves]

Oh cool. I didn't know there was a topic for this. I'll see if I can copy and paste what I posted under general true crime shows. Later - I'm spozed to be working right now. Sshhh. 😉

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What the Mormon Church Has Said About the Netflix Doc

[Jeeves]

Here are some of my assorted thoughts about the series. 

It was interesting to see so many of the people as they appear today, as well as back in the day when all of that happened. 

I wasn't sure the story could stand up to a three episode treatment, but I thought it flowed pretty well. We heard more from the investigators and prosecutors than I'd seen on any documentary before (or at least that I remembered, lol). There was actually some video taken of the investigation team in their "war room" as they worked on the case, before arresting Hofmann. The producers and researchers seem to have really dug deep and come up with a lot of material from back in that time.

We were shown how they at first were stumped as to what Hofmann's motives would be. What surprised me was how Hofmann's much publicized forged documents had been declared genuine, and apparently the police didn't look beyond that at first. Then they decided to review literally every piece of evidence they'd collected to see what they had missed. That's when they found a receipt from an engraving company in Denver for "Mike Hansen," and followed up. They called the place and got a copy of the invoice which showed that "Hanson" had purchased an engraving/printing plate for 19th Century LDS currency. That was the string that started unraveling Hofmann's frauds which were indeed staggering in their scope and audacity. There's a lot more that I won't try to describe here, but the investigators had those documents reassessed and the forgeries were then discovered and the whole thing then made sense.

Finally, there was more insight into Hofmann himself. I'd thought maybe he was a genuine document dealer who'd sort of slid into forgery. But it seems he set out to con the world and get rich, and despite his outward life as a member of the LDS church, had become an atheist. So he was a quiet little sociopath or maybe psychopath all along. Disturbing stuff, and I'm fine with him being in prison for life.

[bosawks]

Shannon Flynn is basically what would happen if Dateline and Oscar Wilde could have a son.

[Melina22]

Fascinating show. Maybe the most astonishing part to me is that a self-taught amateur could create forged documents so good that they could fool the very best experts for years. And do it in a small room of his suburban home. It makes you wonder what other forgeries are being accepted as real. The Mona Lisa? Who knows? 

Second most astonishing thing is how completely he was able to fool absolutely everybody about who he really was, and for so long! I've seen this before on shows like Dateline, but even most of these can't pull off the deception for years. 

15 hours ago, bosawks said:

Shannon Flynn is basically what would happen if Dateline and Oscar Wilde could have a son.

He was so, so odd, what with all his strange tics and mannerisms when answering questions. He was like an actor going OTT for his part, only real. I couldn't really make him out. 

[Guest]

Enjoyed this one a lot. Watching it, I ping-ponged from, "Oh, this is a documentary about forgery!" to "Oh! This is a documentary about LDS shenanigans!" back to "I should have stuck with my first impression DUH." 

I gotta hand it to the Hoffman guy -- his free time was a thing of legend. I can't even begin to imagine long it would take to create the volumes of paperwork he did - not to mention all the voodoo magic involved in the "aging" technique. 

My question with all of these people who commit stupid crimes is: Why is MURDER always the way they think they can get out of things? Like creeps who cheat on their wives and decide killing them would be easier than divorce? Hoffman could have easily pled guilty to fraud, served a couple years in prison, and then get released. But no ... he decided to commit fraud then murder people to cover it up. Dumbass. 

[truthaboutluv]

On 3/10/2021 at 6:00 PM, Giant Misfit said:

My question with all of these people who commit stupid crimes is: Why is MURDER always the way they think they can get out of things? Like creeps who cheat on their wives and decide killing them would be easier than divorce? Hoffman could have easily pled guilty to fraud, served a couple years in prison, and then get released. But no ... he decided to commit fraud then murder people to cover it up. Dumbass. 

It boggles the mind, doesn't it? Reminds me of an episode of Snapped or one of those, where this woman murdered her husband by slowly poisoning him over time. When the guy's sister asked her why, after they discovered what she'd done, she said that she didn't want to be considered a bad wife. Ostensibly if she'd just left him for another man. Because yes, certainly being considered a bad wife is worse than being considered a murderer. 

This was a good true crime documentary. Unlike many recent ones, it didn't feel like a lot of dragging and padding just to extend to multiple episodes. Right at the start of the documentary, I did immediately think, "but how is this guy just randomly finding all this stuff". So Mark's being a forger did not surprise me in the least. What I didn't realize at the offset was how much of a psychopath he was.

I felt bad for his ex-wife for feeling guilty that she didn't see what has happening but again, the dude was clearly a psychopath whose entire scam was making people see and believe what they wanted to and that included even how they saw him. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by truthaboutluv

[CrazyInAlabama]

It amazes me that this man got away with the forgeries for so many years.    I think one reason he did is that he knew exactly what to do forgeries about, and knew that in the case of his Mormon forgeries, that many people would be eager to get them purchased, and out of public sight.    

At least the wife divorced him, so many haven't in similar cases of killers.      I remember reading the book to this a long time ago, and I'm still amazed that he got away with the forgeries for so many years. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Melina22]

It was sort of chilling to see photos of him aging in prison over the years. It brought home the reality  of what a long sentence in prison means. Not that he didn't deserve it, but I think too many people forget the true horror of being sentenced to spend the rest of your life in prison, because we hear of it so often. 

Aging is hard enough. Imagine doing it locked in an ugly building with horrible roommates for decades. 

[MissAlmond]

I also read the book about Hofmann many years ago and believe the "ripped from the headlines" Stephen Colbert episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent is based on this case.   I was surprised the documentary stayed with the "meat" of the story, but that's what years of watching Dateline and the ID Channel will do to you.  

20 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Right at the start of the documentary, I did immediately think, "but how is this guy just randomly finding all this stuff".

The book expands on the fact Hofmann wasn't just "finding" Mormon documents.  He was also "finding" rare documents pertaining to American history, rare handwriting of poets, etc. etc.  As the documentary spells out if Person X would express something like "Oh if I could only find a letter from A to B",  voila, Hofmann would "find" it and present it to them days or weeks later.  It was incredible that nobody had their doubts about this.  But, as one man in the documentary taken in by Hofmann confessed, his wife was right:  He was greedy.  

 

[snickers]

While this show didn't end up being what I thought it was going to be, I really thought there was a document or documents that contradicted the Mormon origin story and i thought that would have been a much more interesting story, but it wasn't half bad

 

I mean, talk about a sociopath/psychopath! And who knew you could forge documents like that! Like someone said, who knows what is real and what is fake that is being displayed today....

 

I think 3 episodes was just enough to keep someone interested but not drag it out....I'm surprised an atheist would keep up the charade of being in the mormon church for so long...

[Melina22]

36 minutes ago, snickers said:

out....I'm surprised an atheist would keep up the charade of being in the mormon church for so long...

Good point! Imagine totally faking who you are on so many levels for so many years. I guess he got a charge out of feeling smarter than, and superior to everyone in his life. Sad, and scary. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

1 hour ago, snickers said:

While this show didn't end up being what I thought it was going to be, I really thought there was a document or documents that contradicted the Mormon origin story and i thought that would have been a much more interesting story, but it wasn't half bad

 

The Salamander letters were one of his key forgeries, and the buyer was one of his victims.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a35729587/salamander-letter-murder-among-the-mormons/

[DoctorAtomic]

On 3/14/2021 at 7:19 AM, MissAlmond said:

But, as one man in the documentary taken in by Hofmann confessed, his wife was right:  He was greedy. 

I didn't think for a second that all the documents weren't faked. And I was cracking up that he was putting one over on the church (not a fan) because they, too, were greedy in wanting to hide the 'truth'. 

In the end, he got too greedy. Saying he had all the McLellin documents was the greedy play. He should have just done a few. 

I want to say I can't believe no one didn't have their bs meter pinged, but I'm not surprised. 

I thought Flynn was shady af. 

I couldn't figure out how he got the paper until they showed him in the library in the reenactment. 

[MissAlmond]

On 3/21/2021 at 6:10 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I want to say I can't believe no one didn't have their bs meter pinged, but I'm not surprised. 

I "think" the book I read mentioned a few skeptics but can't be certain since it's been too long since reading it. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by MissAlmond

[DoctorAtomic]

I've only seen the show, so I'm just talking about the faked Mormon documents. They all wanted them. 

I'd like to know what actual documents they really have. 

[Jeeves]

More than a year after I first watched this mini-series, today I read the book The Mormon Murders. The Kindle book was on sale today for $1.99; it showed up in a daily email feed I get of e-book bargains so I jumped on it. I have to admit, I had trouble putting the book down. I don't know if this series was specifically based on the book, but this is a - if not the - definitive account of the case(s).

There's more to the story, of course, than fitted into the documentary series, and I'm generally okay with how the series portrayed the case. It was kind of horribly fascinating to take the deep dive into the many characters and events detailed in the book. The book was published in 1989, IIRC that was barely after Hofmann's first parole hearing when the board basically ruled he should serve life. The Kindle edition contains no updates. But having watched the series,  I'd seen several of the players in the story as they appear today. It gave a sometimes eerie resonance to what was written about them in 1989. 

One takeaway: Shannon Flynn - who's certainly a strange character on camera here - was kind of a mess back in the day. Also, in the foreword the authors named literally pages of people they had interviewed. They also named two people who demanded payment for interviews, which the authors declined. One of them: Shannon Flynn. 

[Razzberry]

Thanks for the tip about the ebook sale,  just downloaded it.  I sort of remember the case from several true crime shows.