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S01.E01: Pilot

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9 hours ago, DanaK said:

Except for the younger son’s emo look and moodiness, I really liked this

There were at least half a dozen times where he looked like Elijah Wood in the Lord of the Rings movies, so I have begun to think of him as "Emo Frodo".

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6 hours ago, Kromm said:

I'm thinking the show will pretend she doesn't exist. Even though Supes has been on her show. 

It's just easier with the actress likely unwilling to appear as the character after this year.

If Melissa is unable/unwilling to make a cameo during this season, the show could always do what Supergirl did during its first season regarding Superman.  Have Kara be seen as a blurry figure in the distance or just maybe a voice on the phone.  Or even just have a news report on tv mention her.  Overall I thought the pilot was pretty solid, and early on I pegged Jordan as the one whose powers would be revealed first. He practically had potential Brightburn 2.0 tattooed on his forehead in glow-in-the dark letters.

Edited by AD35
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Wish they didn't have that sepia tone over everything. Why do the visuals need to be dingy? I promise you, directors/etc., this can still be 'grounded' with color.

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1 hour ago, arc said:

I genuinely laughed out loud when Clark took off his glasses in front of his sons with the most serious face possible.

FWIW I hope they reference the fact that the glasses are not a fantastic disguise and have Clark acknowledge it. "Hey you look just like Superman with glasses on! Yeah, I get that all the time! Can you imagine... me? Ha ha ha!"

43 minutes ago, Trini said:

Wish they didn't have that sepia tone over everything. Why do the visuals need to be dingy? I promise you, directors/etc., this can still be 'grounded' with color.

Agreed, I felt like there was someone just out of frame chain smoking cigarettes through the whole thing.

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I am not super well-versed in the Superman universe (I'll date myself by saying my ultimate Superman will always be Christopher Reeve), and I was a fan of Smallville, but I saw the previews for this, and decided to check it out.

Loved it.

I've never seen the lead before as Superman in the other shows he has been on, but I thought he was perfect. Same with Lois, and how they are truly using the series to display their strengths as a hero, and a "regular" person. I love seeing a healthy, functional relationship on TV, and they hit all the right notes as a family dealing with a superhero as a dad.

I thought I would find the twins kind of annoying, but I thought they were decent and not just stereotypes. I can see some interesting stories with the son developing powers, and coming to terms with everything.

Way better special effects and cinematography than I was expecting.

I also watched the after show / behind the scenes, and I loved the theme of hope, decency, and kindness they are using in the show - it is quintessential Superman, and as they said, timely. I imagine a lot of us could use that about now.

I'm hooked, and will keep watching.

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59 minutes ago, AD35 said:

If Melissa is unable/unwilling to make a cameo during this season, the show could always do what Supergirl did during its first season regarding Superman.  Have Kara be seen as a blurry figure in the distance or just maybe a voice on the phone.  Or even just have a news report on tv mention her.  Overall I thought the pilot was pretty solid, and early on I pegged Jordan as the one whose powers would be revealed first. He practically had potential Brightburn 2.0 tattooed on his forehead in glow-in-the dark letters.

Kara and Alex really should be the first ones Lois and Clark call if they're worried about the dynamic between one powered and one unpowered sibling.  There are other similarities too - even though they're twins Jonathan comes across as older and Jordan is awkwardly working through it all while feeling like he doesn't fit in.   Sounds like teen Alex and Kara to me.

And in retrospect, of course Jordan (i.e. Jor) has powers while Jonathan doesn't, at least for now.

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3 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:
1 hour ago, AD35 said:

If Melissa is unable/unwilling to make a cameo during this season, the show could always do what Supergirl did during its first season regarding Superman.  Have Kara be seen as a blurry figure in the distance or just maybe a voice on the phone.  Or even just have a news report on tv mention her.  Overall I thought the pilot was pretty solid, and early on I pegged Jordan as the one whose powers would be revealed first. He practically had potential Brightburn 2.0 tattooed on his forehead in glow-in-the dark letters.

Kara and Alex really should be the first ones Lois and Clark call if they're worried about the dynamic between one powered and one unpowered sibling.  There are other similarities too - even though they're twins Jonathan comes across as older and Jordan is awkwardly working through it all while feeling like he doesn't fit in.   Sounds like teen Alex and Kara to me.

And in retrospect, of course Jordan (i.e. Jor) has powers while Jonathan doesn't, at least for now.

If not Kara (first choice) or Alex (2nd), perhaps Eliza/Helen Slater can visit for an episode. Plus, with Martha gone (RIP), it'd be a nice way to have Clark & Lois get some parenting advice from the generation before them. Family is a theme here, right?

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Good opening. "The Adventures Of Superman As A Dad" sounds like a tough sell, but it looks like it could work. I mean, there's always the prospect of Kyle (can we call him "Mr. Lana"?) successfully woos Lois, or the twins start out-ansgting Smallville-era Tom Weilling. Big Dumb Aliens in stereo? Yikes.

The actor playing Jordan is named Jonathan. Or is it the other way around? I get where the names came from (bio father Jor-El, human daddy Jonathan), but it still sounds confusing. Having the boys be opposites is an interesting approach, as is Jordan (the one with mental health issues) manifesting powers first. And he didn't have to see a hot woman to make that happen! Yeah, I will inevitably compare S&L to Smallville.

I shouldn't try to cram the continuity into the whole Arrowverse, should I? I should just mutter "Crisis" and move on. Or follow the golden rule: "When all continuity arguments fail, blame Barry Allen."

I'm hoping "Captain Luthor" is a Crisis remnant as well. Maybe based off the heroic Lex Luthor from Earth-3 pre-COIE?

Smallville is a ghost town and full of meth labs. After watching ten seasons of Smallville, I can totally get into that.

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I really enjoyed it.  I don’t watch any Arrowverse shows besides Legends (gave up on Arrow sometime around season 6 maybe?) so I’ve never seen this actor on Supergirl or any other shows.  Isn’t he a little young to have 14 year old boys?   He looks early 30s.  
 

It’s interesting that the blonder and better looking twin is not (as of now) the one with powers, considering he was clearly written as the golden child.  The doughy looking one with the terrible hair and puffy face ends up with them instead.

Agree that it’s ridiculous that Clark revealed himself as Superman by taking off his glasses.  Did they never go to the beach on family vacations?  Does he wear his glasses at all times?

Edited by blackwing
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I don’t watch the CW with all the super heroes shows. I don’t think I’m their demographic. Let’s just say I’m older. That said, the show was well done and beautifully shot. Now, the bad news. I could really do without the stupid twins on the show. I guess they have to add “teens” since it’s the CW but I found them annoying and rather unnecessary. Maybe, I’m showing my age?! Nah!!!! LOL!!!!

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1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Agree that it’s ridiculous that Clark revealed himself as Superman by taking off his glasses.  Did they never go to the beach on family vacations?  Does he wear his glasses at all times?

I would think that most people who actually need glasses and wear them instead of contacts pretty much have them on whenever they are awake. 

Removing them to swim, to rub one's eyes, switch to sunglasses or to clean glasses are about the only times I could think that people would normally do, and I can buy that  any times he would have done that in the presence of the twins would have been brief.

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Kyle might be a hick jerk but Lana is a top tier supervillain. “Yeah, your mom didn’t need the money for herself, but she was the safety net of last resort here in Smallville AND THAT’S WHY the bank is taking her farm.” YOU work at the bank! Why couldn’t you have shown a tenth of the kindness of Martha Kent?????

also, maybe this is my city folk upbringing showing here, but I see no reason at all to put the router (1) in the barn (2) up in the barn’s rafters and (3) where the signal could be blocked by Martha’s inexplicable collection of steel pipes also kept up high. Put the router in the house, maybe have an extender antenna up on the roof. Put your steel pipes on the ground, maybe under a tarp. I bet this stuff is so poorly thought out because Martha just had Clark fly up to the router to reset it any time her internet was slow.

Edited by arc
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21 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Far cry from Tom Welling who was 24 playing a 14 yr old in S1 of Smallville. 

Smallville started when Clark was 14??

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10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I shouldn't try to cram the continuity into the whole Arrowverse, should I? I should just mutter "Crisis" and move on. Or follow the golden rule: "When all continuity arguments fail, blame Barry Allen."

I'm hoping "Captain Luthor" is a Crisis remnant as well. Maybe based off the heroic Lex Luthor from Earth-3 pre-COIE?

Smallville is a ghost town and full of meth labs. After watching ten seasons of Smallville, I can totally get into that.

I thought only Arrow and Flash were on the same "Earth" in the Arrowverse? While this Superman and Lois made appearances on Supergirl.

Edited by Raja

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While the twins weren't as well fleshed out as I might have liked, it was clear the two actors had good chemistry as brothers.  The sibling petty fighting and snide remarks, but heaven help the person attacking from the outside was on point, as far as I could see. 

I loved the chemistry between Clark and Lois, but then it was a highlight with whatever random arrowverse appearance happened. 

It looks good.

 

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1 hour ago, Raja said:

I thought only Arrow and Flash were on the same "Earth" in the Arrowverse? While this Superman and Lois made appearances on Supergirl.

After Crisis they merged so Arrow, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman, Black Lightning, Supergirl, and now S&L are all on the same Earth. Stargirl is the only DC CW show on a different Earth and that’s only because it originated on DC Universe. 

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10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:
12 hours ago, blackwing said:

Agree that it’s ridiculous that Clark revealed himself as Superman by taking off his glasses.  Did they never go to the beach on family vacations?  Does he wear his glasses at all times?

I would think that most people who actually need glasses and wear them instead of contacts pretty much have them on whenever they are awake. 

Removing them to swim, to rub one's eyes, switch to sunglasses or to clean glasses are about the only times I could think that people would normally do, and I can buy that  any times he would have done that in the presence of the twins would have been brief.

As someone who has worn glasses all the time for most of my life, taking them off to sleep and in the situations you mention, I am 99.9% sure that when my daughter was a child and teen she would have had no problem recognizing me as her mom if she saw me outside of the home without glasses. For that matter, I don't think anyone who knows me reasonably well would have any difficulty recognizing me without my glasses. So I have a hard time accepting that Clark's sons, assuming they paid any attention to live coverage of Superman (not just in video games), would not have at least noticed how much he looked like their father. However, I am willing to hand-wave that Clark's completely different persona and career (nervous and nerdy reporter) could have made them dismiss the resemblance with "No way could Dad be someone like Superman."

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15 minutes ago, Paloma said:

As someone who has worn glasses all the time for most of my life, taking them off to sleep and in the situations you mention, I am 99.9% sure that when my daughter was a child and teen she would have had no problem recognizing me as her mom if she saw me outside of the home without glasses. For that matter, I don't think anyone who knows me reasonably well would have any difficulty recognizing me without my glasses. So I have a hard time accepting that Clark's sons, assuming they paid any attention to live coverage of Superman (not just in video games), would not have at least noticed how much he looked like their father. However, I am willing to hand-wave that Clark's completely different persona and career (nervous and nerdy reporter) could have made them dismiss the resemblance with "No way could Dad be someone like Superman."

Oh for sure, the trope of "Can't tell that person is the same person with glasses" does not make sense. But that has been the case for 80 years and part of the handwavery that inherently has to be done about the character.

That is a different issue than "have the kids ever seen Clark without glasses? I can totally buy that they have not seen Clark without glasses for more than a few seconds each time. 

I am interested in the times when they had previously seen Superman.

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The actress who plays Lana.  I do not like her voice.  At all. 

Besides that, I thought this was actually pretty good.  At first I found Tyler H's age to be off putting (he's only 33 so he'd have to have kids at 19 to have 14 year old twins) but he did such a good job with the acting that I was convinced after his first interactions with the sons (also, they explained it away by saying that he ages differently, so I'll just go with that).

Jonathan being able to throw a football so hard that it breaks a rope signals to me that he has superpowers.  I'm hoping that what they do is divide up the powers between the brother, since it real life you inherit different traits from your parents anyway.  So since Jordan is invulnerable with heat vision, maybe Jonathan got speed and super breath?  I'd prefer neither kid to be able to fly as I think it's more interesting if they have powers but aren't as powerful as their dad.

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40 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Oh for sure, the trope of "Can't tell that person is the same person with glasses" does not make sense. But that has been the case for 80 years and part of the handwavery that inherently has to be done about the character.

Didn't Friends turn this into a joke? I recall Joey vehemently arguing so and so can't be Superman because he wears glasses while Superman doesn't wear glasses.  It was hilarious!

Then, to test the "how well do people pay attention to what Superman looks like" bit, Henry Cavill wore the iconic Superman "S" shirt with requisite red/blue colors and walked around  - was it Manhattan?  No one recognized him as "Superman".  (Maybe this is on YouTube?)

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6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Yes, Clark was a freshman in s1 

WOW!! I had no idea. I had always assumed the show started when he was 16 based upon Tom Welling's appearance. Thanks for the education. My mind is blown.

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2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Oh for sure, the trope of "Can't tell that person is the same person with glasses" does not make sense. But that has been the case for 80 years and part of the handwavery that inherently has to be done about the character.

That is a different issue than "have the kids ever seen Clark without glasses? I can totally buy that they have not seen Clark without glasses for more than a few seconds each time. 

I am interested in the times when they had previously seen Superman.

Yes, when you put it that way, I agree.  I find it hard to believe that people can't recognise someone just because they put on glasses.  I mean, in real life, when someone is wearing sunglasses, you can usually still tell who they are if you know them, and with sunglasses their eyes are obscured.  When someone wears a Green Lantern style eyemask, I would think someone should be able to tell the person is, especially if their voice is not disguised.  But that is part of the comic world mythology I suppose. 

And apparently his persona as bumbling Clark worked for years, because his kids said "Dad can't even climb up a ladder without falling off".  What I am curious about is that these boys just found out that their dad is Superman, and didn't even have any questions.  Such as "who else knows", "can you take me flying", "does Mom wash your suit in the laundry", "what is Wonder Woman like".  They weren't even admonished by Mom and Dad to keep the secret.

The blonder twin, I do think he has to have some kind of strength and speed, I just think it hasn't manifested yet.  Puffy twin's powers manifested when his brother was in danger, so maybe Blond's will do the same in a future episode.

I am surprised that Blond took the move to Smallville so well.  Smallville is established to be in Kansas while I always thought Metropolis was on the East Coast.  If Gotham City is near New York then I thought Metropolis was somewhere near Philadelphia.  Blond has a girlfriend in Metropolis I thought, so absolutely no protest over being forced to move?

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14 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I am surprised that Blond took the move to Smallville so well.  Smallville is established to be in Kansas while I always thought Metropolis was on the East Coast.  If Gotham City is near New York then I thought Metropolis was somewhere near Philadelphia.  Blond has a girlfriend in Metropolis I thought, so absolutely no protest over being forced to move?

I mean, they're 14, it's not like it's a serious relationship.  He probably figures that there's plenty of fish in the sea and given that he's quite social, athletic and self-confident, it shouldn't be that hard for him to find a new girlfriend in Smallville.  I feel like the writers only gave him a girlfriend to 1) showcase how different Jonathan and Jordan are and 2) to make it so that there wasn't a love triangle over Sarah.  

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32 minutes ago, blackwing said:

What I am curious about is that these boys just found out that their dad is Superman, and didn't even have any questions.  Such as "who else knows", "can you take me flying", "does Mom wash your suit in the laundry", "what is Wonder Woman like".  They weren't even admonished by Mom and Dad to keep the secret.

The blonder twin, I do think he has to have some kind of strength and speed, I just think it hasn't manifested yet.  Puffy twin's powers manifested when his brother was in danger, so maybe Blond's will do the same in a future episode.

I am surprised that Blond took the move to Smallville so well.  Smallville is established to be in Kansas while I always thought Metropolis was on the East Coast.  If Gotham City is near New York then I thought Metropolis was somewhere near Philadelphia.  Blond has a girlfriend in Metropolis I thought, so absolutely no protest over being forced to move?

One of the twins (I think Jordan, aka puffy) mentioned that he had a thousand questions, but didn't actually ask them. I really liked the pilot, but if I could wish for anything, I would have traded in all or part of the fight with Captain Luthor for more of the family moments, like the explicit answering of questions. I suppose it's maybe gross coming from their kids, but I'd think they'd be wondering about the whole Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex issue on some level. 

It could be interesting if neither twin has inherited Supes's full power set. Jordan has displayed heat vision and some  level of invulnerability, but not strength or speed or anything else. But it could be that they both will get it all.

In Smallville the series, the town of Smallville and the city of Metropolis were three hours apart. So it could be in the Arrowverse they are both in Kansas, or it could be that Metropolis is on the East Coast as befits the NYC proxy that it is. 

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In those last movies Gotham and Metropolis were across a river from each other with the bridges cut off.

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57 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

ln Smallville the series, the town of Smallville and the city of Metropolis were three hours apart.

I get the sense this is pulling from Smallville the series. I would imagine both share some locations anyways, and Lana is brunette rather than redhead. But most of all it seems like even without superspeed that Smallville is relatively close to Metropolis rather than a full flight away. I don't think anything was stated explicitly, but that's kinda how it all felt to me.

That said, Clark was in the air as soon as his mother's doctor called and he was in the house a few seconds later, and the doctor wasn't that surprised, so maybe she knew he's Superman and realized now was not the time to mention it.

But just overall, the vibe just felt more like Champaign to Chicago rather than Peoria to Manhattan.

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Thoughts about the pilot in general:

I really liked a lot about it.

I think it struck the right tone as to who Superman/Clark are and I like the brotherly dynamic. It seemed to me that Superman had a lot of the soul that is often lacking in portrayals of the character.

I think it could have used more time to flesh out the mental health issues that Jordan is dealing with. 

Which I guess raises another issue: Clark and Lois are talking about moving Jordan away from his therapist, his support network and the world he knew for what reasons, exactly? When Clark no longer has to put up the facade of being Clark (if he ever did) and can devote 100 percent of his non-Superman time to being a dad,, whyt doesn't he? If he wants to save Smallville, he literally can whenever he wants. Just crush coal into diamonds, mine something rare, patent any number of things based on Kryptonian stuff could all translate into enough money to pay off all of Smallville's debt. Even as Clark Kent, he has the ability to write pretty much whatever he wants in fiction and nonfiction and donate the profits to needy Smallville families. 

I want Lois to do more to jump off the screen as the dynamic figure who is investigating things, a true partner of Clark in every sense of the word. We don't yet have that.

People who lived through Smallville may have experienced the same PTSD about barn scenes. Now that Clark is and has been full fledged Superman for years, it literally makes no sense that he has kept his spaceship in the barn where it could potentially be discovered in the fashion it was, instead of hauling it to the Fortress of Solitude or at least creating an actual security system for it that can't be defeated by a crowbar. Also, I've never been a parent, but even I know just saying "Don't go to X" is almost like sending an engraved invitation to a teen "Go exactly to X."

Minor quibbles: don't like that the Supersuit has padding, don't like Sueprman having 5 o'clock shadow.

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In Smallville the series, the town of Smallville and the city of Metropolis were three hours apart. So it could be in the Arrowverse they are both in Kansas, or it could be that Metropolis is on the East Coast as befits the NYC proxy that it is. 

In the Arrowverse Metropolis is on the East Coast while Gotham is around where Chicago is.  Cisco had a map of Earth Prime after crisis although I suppose they could always retcon it.

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11 hours ago, Raja said:

I thought only Arrow and Flash were on the same "Earth" in the Arrowverse? While this Superman and Lois made appearances on Supergirl.

That was true, until it wasn't.  Their version of Crisis on Infinite Earths changed that.  Now all of the shows are on the same Earth, except confusingly Stargirl, which isn't, and the DC Universe shows like Titans and Doom Patrol, which also aren't. 

On 2/24/2021 at 3:13 PM, Primal Slayer said:

They made a big deviation from Clarks - Supergirl origin to his new origin...he was already born and a baby Pre-COIE and now he seems to have been born once he landed on Earth, with the pod as a kind of incubator. I wonder if they'll even address the change should they have Kara talk about her baby cousin once Supergirl returns.

I need to rewatch. I didn't get that from the pod scene at all. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. 

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7 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Jonathan being able to throw a football so hard that it breaks a rope signals to me that he has superpowers.  I'm hoping that what they do is divide up the powers between the brother, since it real life you inherit different traits from your parents anyway.  So since Jordan is invulnerable with heat vision, maybe Jonathan got speed and super breath?  I'd prefer neither kid to be able to fly as I think it's more interesting if they have powers but aren't as powerful as their dad

That doesn't really jibe with the laws of genetics, though. Children tend to inherit their parents' dominant characteristics, not their recessive ones unless both parents contribute the recessive gene, which is impossible here because Clark is a full-blooded Kryptonian and only has Kryptonian DNA.  Both boys are therefore half-Kryptonian and would therefore inherit the full range of his powers as dominant characteristics. Having each one inherit only half of his powers would be like having them inherit one brown eye from one parent and one blue eye from the other one.  I just don't think it's genetically possible for them to inherit anything less than the full range of their father's powers.

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27 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

That doesn't really jibe with the laws of genetics, though. Children tend to inherit their parents' dominant characteristics, not their recessive ones unless both parents contribute the recessive gene, which is impossible here because Clark is a full-blooded Kryptonian and only has Kryptonian DNA.  Both boys are therefore half-Kryptonian and would therefore inherit the full range of his powers as dominant characteristics. Having each one inherit only half of his powers would be like having them inherit one brown eye from one parent and one blue eye from the other one.  I just don't think it's genetically possible for them to inherit anything less than the full range of their father's powers.

Different species from different planets are breeding. I think it is time to throw out any rulebook.

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3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

That doesn't really jibe with the laws of genetics, though. Children tend to inherit their parents' dominant characteristics, not their recessive ones unless both parents contribute the recessive gene, which is impossible here because Clark is a full-blooded Kryptonian and only has Kryptonian DNA.  Both boys are therefore half-Kryptonian and would therefore inherit the full range of his powers as dominant characteristics. Having each one inherit only half of his powers would be like having them inherit one brown eye from one parent and one blue eye from the other one.  I just don't think it's genetically possible for them to inherit anything less than the full range of their father's powers.

The writers really can introduce whatever rules they want as to how the genetics work, as long as they are internally consistent. By the same notion that the child of Reed Richards and Sue Storm can neither turn stretch nor turn invisible but instead basically can have vast reality-shaping powers, they could even arbitrarily give a human-Kryptonian hybrid different abilities than either if they wanted. 

In various incarnations of Superman, Kal-El had his powers manifests at different times and ways. In Chris Reeve Superman, he was super-strong straight out of the rocket ship. In the Man of Steel, (the 80s comic) he basically came into his powers around the age that the twins are. In Henry Cavill Man of Steel, the same thing, except things like super-hearing and vision were overpowering to him. 

Here, Clark started having his powers around 6 years old if I'm remembering correctly. They tested the twins and didn't see signs of powers.

So it is an open question as to what triggered Jordan's powers. Just time? Stress? Proximity to the pod?

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6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So it is an open question as to what triggered Jordan's powers. Just time? Stress? Proximity to the pod?

I figured it had something to do with touching the pod/crystal, and that activating something in his DNA. I don't remember seeing Jonathan touch either, correct? But then Jonathan did seem to be a bit powered up already, so maybe not. I don't think they're going to go with one twin having powers and the other not for long. 

Also the constant dressing of the twins in white vs black was a bit much after the first scene or two. Yes show, I see one is the golden boy and the other is troubled and more likely to turn "bad". 

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I liked it, but I had questions:

1. Why, why, why is everything sepia brown or washed out grey? Middle age doesn't have to be brown, everyone! People can continue to see and dress and be in color well into very old age!  All the more aggravating since this was one of the best shot and designed Arrowverse shows we've seen since probably season two of Arrow, and yet, colorless. At least Batwoman is working off a long tradition of "let's keep everything dark, dark, dark" on Bats shows.

2. I'm going to try to handwave this, but when exactly is this supposed to be in terms of the Arrowverse timeline? Because if it's following the usual Arrowverse continuity of more or less following in real time, then the twins should still be toddlers - they were babies during/right after Crisis last year, which more or less happene Clark and Lois had a baby just a little over a year ago, with Clark finding out only a little later that he now had twins. If this is following in real time, then that might go a long way towards explaining why he's having problems bonding with Emo Twin - sure, Emo Twin has the memories of growing up with Clark flying around, but Clark doesn't, since from his perspective, he had one baby pre-Crisis, and now has older kid twins post Crisis.

If it's set sometime in the future, I really need someone to beg Team Flash, Team Legends and Team Bats to do whatever is in their power to bring color back to Superman. 

3. I don't think this show needs to reference other Arrowverse characters all that much, especially since Clark and Lois only made brief crossover appearances in the other shows, but I did think it was a little odd that neither Clark nor Lois apparently thought about contacting Alex and Kara to see how they dealt with the superpowered/ordinary sister dynamic. And that Clark never mentioned this even in passing. And that the overall vibe of the show that Clark is the only superhero around - while the CW was cheerfully advertising Batwoman and Flash during commercial breaks, and will presumably be advertising Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl and Stargirl soon.

4. I assume that some of the therapy can be done via Zoom, but still, pulling the kid with the anxiety disorder away from his (presumed) therapist and doctor just after the kid learned about something that could definitely increase the anxiety was possibly not all that well thought out.

5. The kids seemed to have made several visits to Smallville before, so, rule about the barn or no rule about the barn, why did it take them this long to discover the trapdoor?

6. On that note, why is the Krypton pod still in the basement under the barn and not in the Fortress of Solitude? Or at least better hidden in the basement?

7. Martha Kent: Sure, I'll put the internet router in the absolute least safe location in the barn, with limited access even by ladder, so that this can be turned into a plot point later!

8. So Lana is fully aware that Smallville is in major economic trouble and also helping issue these moderately shady loans and aware that her husband will lose his job if people keep leaving Smallville? Maybe that's why she was so gung-ho about the loans - she needs to delude herself?

9. How was Lana not aware that her employer had been partly bought out by Morgan Edge's bank, especially given that her husband was aware of and interested in Morgan Edge?

10. I'll handwave the glasses, but if Clark is going around casually tipping over vending machines, how did his kids never notice/see something like that in 14 or so years?

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15 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Which I guess raises another issue: Clark and Lois are talking about moving Jordan away from his therapist, his support network and the world he knew for what reasons, exactly?

I agree that would be stressful, but I got the impression that they thought that moving to a small town (one that Clark had fond memories of growing up in) might provide a better environment for both kids but for Jordan especially. Obviously they were naive if they thought that rural and small-town kids would be nicer and less into things like bullying and partying with alcohol, drugs, etc., than city kids are.

39 minutes ago, quarks said:

I assume that some of the therapy can be done via Zoom, but still, pulling the kid with the anxiety disorder away from his (presumed) therapist and doctor just after the kid learned about something that could definitely increase the anxiety was possibly not all that well thought out.

Definitely not well thought out, but it's interesting that you mention therapy by Zoom--I just talked to a friend yesterday who has been in therapy for years for bipolar disorder and anxiety, and she decided to try a service that matches you with online/video therapists after she was unable to continue seeing her former in-person therapist. She said that after an initial bad match, the second one was good and has been quite helpful even without the in-person setting.

16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If he wants to save Smallville, he literally can whenever he wants. Just crush coal into diamonds, mine something rare, patent any number of things based on Kryptonian stuff could all translate into enough money to pay off all of Smallville's debt. Even as Clark Kent, he has the ability to write pretty much whatever he wants in fiction and nonfiction and donate the profits to needy Smallville families. 

Interesting ideas, but for all except the writing it would have to done as/credited to Superman, not Clark, and that would raise the question of why doesn't Superman do such stuff to raise money for all the needy places and people--in other words, why doesn't he do something that would save the world in a broader sense than just physical rescues? It could create resentment against Superman by all those not helped in that way.

As for Clark writing fiction and nonfiction to make money, I'm not sure his reporting skills translate to best-seller book-writing skills (though there may have been something about this in one of the Arrowverse shows or comics that I haven't seen). But I do like the idea as a career he can do from home in Smallville (speaking as someone who has been a freelance editor working from home for the last 4 decades--though I never made enough to support a family).

16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Now that Clark is and has been full fledged Superman for years, it literally makes no sense that he has kept his spaceship in the barn where it could potentially be discovered in the fashion it was, instead of hauling it to the Fortress of Solitude or at least creating an actual security system for it that can't be defeated by a crowbar.

Seriously, hubby and I were yelling at the TV about that.

16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, I've never been a parent, but even I know just saying "Don't go to X" is almost like sending an engraved invitation to a teen "Go exactly to X."

Absolutely true, speaking as both a parent and a former child. My childhood was many decades ago, but I still remember regularly searching for and finding my mother's secret stash of chocolate licorice, Knowing there was something forbidden but desirable being hidden just motivated me to look for it.

1 hour ago, quarks said:

The kids seemed to have made several visits to Smallville before, so, rule about the barn or no rule about the barn, why did it take them this long to discover the trapdoor?

Maybe they were more obedient when they were younger? But I agree it seems unlikely they wouldn't have snuck in the barn and discovered the trapdoor sooner.

1 hour ago, quarks said:

Martha Kent: Sure, I'll put the internet router in the absolute least safe location in the barn, with limited access even by ladder, so that this can be turned into a plot point later!

This made no sense--why wouldn't you put the router in the house?

1 hour ago, quarks said:

I don't think this show needs to reference other Arrowverse characters all that much, especially since Clark and Lois only made brief crossover appearances in the other shows, but I did think it was a little odd that neither Clark nor Lois apparently thought about contacting Alex and Kara to see how they dealt with the superpowered/ordinary sister dynamic. And that Clark never mentioned this even in passing.

As mentioned earlier, I haven't seen the other Arrowverse shows. Are Kara and Alex Supergirl and her non-powered sister? Are they related to Clark/Superman or just from the same planet?

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7 minutes ago, Paloma said:

As mentioned earlier, I haven't seen the other Arrowverse shows. Are Kara and Alex Supergirl and her non-powered sister? Are they related to Clark/Superman or just from the same planet?

Kara is Clark's cousin form Krypton, AKA Supergirl; Kara has been on Earth for years, since she was a young teen. Alex is her human, adoptive sister.

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Regarding the barn I can buy that the twins were always curious but didn't act on it out of respect for Grandma. Or maybe they stopped buying the "it's dangerous" excuse only recently.

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26 minutes ago, Trini said:
37 minutes ago, Paloma said:

As mentioned earlier, I haven't seen the other Arrowverse shows. Are Kara and Alex Supergirl and her non-powered sister? Are they related to Clark/Superman or just from the same planet?

Kara is Clark's cousin form Krypton, AKA Supergirl; Kara has been on Earth for years, since she was a young teen. Alex is her human, adoptive sister.

Thanks! And have Clark and Kara known each other since they were teens on Earth, or did they meet more recently? If the latter, there might have been no reason to mention Kara and Alex to Jonathan and Jordan. I apologize for my ignorance due to not watching the other shows, but it would help to have a sense of why commenters here are saying that Kara and Alex should be mentioned (if not seen) on this show.

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22 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Thanks! And have Clark and Kara known each other since they were teens on Earth, or did they meet more recently? If the latter, there might have been no reason to mention Kara and Alex to Jonathan and Jordan. I apologize for my ignorance due to not watching the other shows, but it would help to have a sense of why commenters here are saying that Kara and Alex should be mentioned (if not seen) on this show.

In the Arrowverse and I think in most permutations of the comic universe, even though both Clark and Kara's ships left for Earth at the same time, Clark's reached Earth decades before Kara's. Kara was a pre-teen or teen on Krypton who was in suspended animation and had something happen to her ship so she arrived late. 

Clark was a baby who grew up on Earth, became Superman, and then encountered a teen-age Kara shortly after she arrived on Earth.

Kara in the Arrowverse is somewhere in her 20s in her show. She has been working with Alex at an organization that deals with alien threats and have had to work through all sorts of issues because of it.  So Kara and Alex had at least a  decade of dealing with the issues around a powered sister and a non-powered sister. Clark should be aware of this. But I think that it's not necessarily the first thing that would come to his mind with this having all just come out.

As someone noted above, it's unclear where in the Arrowverse timeline this is supposed to take place. Last season in the various shows there was a kind of reset called Crisis on Infinite Earths that gave the writers leeway to essentially do whatever they wanted with the previous history. At that point, Clark and Lois had just had the twins. It could be almost 14 years in the future from that point. 

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15 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Thanks! And have Clark and Kara known each other since they were teens on Earth, or did they meet more recently? If the latter, there might have been no reason to mention Kara and Alex to Jonathan and Jordan. I apologize for my ignorance due to not watching the other shows, but it would help to have a sense of why commenters here are saying that Kara and Alex should be mentioned (if not seen) on this show.

Kara's older than Clark (by twelve-ish years) and she once told some onlookers that she used to change his diapers. The pod she was in got trapped in time for a bit which means she's physically younger than him on Earth. We saw on Supergirl that adult Clark found her when she arrived. He and Alex greeted each other with hugs in Tyler's first episode so they had a relationship as well. This was all pre-Crisis so some details may have changed. The fought the final Crisis battle together so we know their relationship still exists which is ultimately what matters.

I suspect a Kara cameo may have been intended for the funeral scene but Melissa's maternity leave cancelled it.

I think this show is happening in real-ish time like the others and the Crisis effect is that Clark and Lois got together and started their family much earlier. The "boys?" "yes, your sons" exchange in Crisis happened before the show announcement if memory serves so they may have intended to give them young children before changing their minds.

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6 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In the Arrowverse and I think in most permutations of the comic universe, even though both Clark and Kara's ships left for Earth at the same time, Clark's reached Earth decades before Kara's. Clark was a baby who grew up on Earth, became Superman, and then encountered a teen-age Kara shortly after she arrived on Earth. Kara in the Arrowverse is somewhere in her 20s in her show. She has been working with Alex at an organization that deals with alien threats and have had to work through all sorts of issues because of it.  So Kara and Alex had at least a  decade of dealing with the issues around a powered sister and a non-powered sister. Clark should be aware of this. But I think that it's not necessarily the first thing that would come to his mind with this having all just come out.

Thanks, this is really helpful and some of it sounds familiar because I did watch at least some of the first season of Supergirl.

6 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Kara's older than Clark (by twelve-ish years) and she once told some onlookers that she used to change his diapers. The pod she was in got trapped in time for a bit which means she's physically younger than him on Earth. We saw on Supergirl that adult Clark found her when she arrived. He and Alex greeted each other with hugs in Tyler's first episode so they had a relationship as well. This was all pre-Crisis so some details may have changed. The fought the final Crisis battle together so we know their relationship still exists which is ultimately what matters.

Thanks! It's always good to have "trapped in time" as a way to explain things that might otherwise not make sense! 

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I have never seen "Supergirl", am I going to be lost on this show if I have never seen it?  I'm trying to figure out why this thread has so much discussion about Supergirl / Kara, is her storyline so intertwined with Clark's that we need to understand what happened on her show in order to be able to follow what is happening here?

It sounds like the actress is pregnant... but I'm so confused, I could have sworn I heard that they just cast a new Supergirl.  The girl who plays the chef on "The Young and the Restless", there was a lot being made out of the new Supergirl being the first Hispanic Supergirl.  So is this actress going to replace the existing one and is she appearing on "Superman and Lois"?

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10 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I have never seen "Supergirl", am I going to be lost on this show if I have never seen it?  I'm trying to figure out why this thread has so much discussion about Supergirl / Kara, is her storyline so intertwined with Clark's that we need to understand what happened on her show in order to be able to follow what is happening here?

It sounds like the actress is pregnant... but I'm so confused, I could have sworn I heard that they just cast a new Supergirl.  The girl who plays the chef on "The Young and the Restless", there was a lot being made out of the new Supergirl being the first Hispanic Supergirl.  So is this actress going to replace the existing one and is she appearing on "Superman and Lois"?

Tyler's Superman first showed up on Supergirl and he's been a part of a couple of crossover events so that's the connection. I don't think you'll need to have seen Supergirl since each Arrowverse show can stand on its own. There are occasionally things that prompt discussion, like Kara's absence from Martha's funeral, and that can lead to questions from those who haven't see the other show(s) but it's not going to be something that this specific show depends on.

The Supergirl who just had a baby is the CW Supergirl. The one you're thinking of is the new one who will be in the Flash movie.

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1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I have never seen "Supergirl", am I going to be lost on this show if I have never seen it?  I'm trying to figure out why this thread has so much discussion about Supergirl / Kara, is her storyline so intertwined with Clark's that we need to understand what happened on her show in order to be able to follow what is happening here?

It sounds like the actress is pregnant... but I'm so confused, I could have sworn I heard that they just cast a new Supergirl.  The girl who plays the chef on "The Young and the Restless", there was a lot being made out of the new Supergirl being the first Hispanic Supergirl.  So is this actress going to replace the existing one and is she appearing on "Superman and Lois"?

Based just on this pilot episode, you can watch this show without ever seeing a single episode of Supergirl - none of the main characters on Supergirl were even mentioned. Even pre-Covid, most of the crossover/cameo appearances were on Arrow, Flash and Legends of Tomorrow, not Supergirl and Batwoman, which are more loosely connected shows. So much though I'd like to see J'onn J'onzz on this show, my guess it that and other crossovers/cameos will be pretty rare events. 

Anyway, it's not so much that Clark and Kara's storylines are intertwined, or that we need to understand the plot of Supergirl to follow this, as that Clark is all, how will we handle things if one twin has superpowers and the other doesn't, when he knows  a real life example of a parent where one kid (Kara) has superpowers and the other kid (Alex) doesn't - and yet this example was never once mentioned in this episode.

 

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2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Tyler's Superman first showed up on Supergirl and he's been a part of a couple of crossover events so that's the connection. I don't think you'll need to have seen Supergirl since each Arrowverse show can stand on its own. There are occasionally things that prompt discussion, like Kara's absence from Martha's funeral, and that can lead to questions from those who haven't see the other show(s) but it's not going to be something that this specific show depends on.

The Supergirl who just had a baby is the CW Supergirl. The one you're thinking of is the new one who will be in the Flash movie.

 

1 hour ago, quarks said:

Based just on this pilot episode, you can watch this show without ever seeing a single episode of Supergirl - none of the main characters on Supergirl were even mentioned. Even pre-Covid, most of the crossover/cameo appearances were on Arrow, Flash and Legends of Tomorrow, not Supergirl and Batwoman, which are more loosely connected shows. So much though I'd like to see J'onn J'onzz on this show, my guess it that and other crossovers/cameos will be pretty rare events. 

Anyway, it's not so much that Clark and Kara's storylines are intertwined, or that we need to understand the plot of Supergirl to follow this, as that Clark is all, how will we handle things if one twin has superpowers and the other doesn't, when he knows  a real life example of a parent where one kid (Kara) has superpowers and the other kid (Alex) doesn't - and yet this example was never once mentioned in this episode.

 

Thank you both.

Another question... I watch on the app and noticed there is this "Legacy of Hope" special which apparently aired after the premiere.  It sounds like this is just interviews of the cast and creators talking about the show and the mythos of Superman, and not any kind of new content?

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51 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Another question... I watch on the app and noticed there is this "Legacy of Hope" special which apparently aired after the premiere.  It sounds like this is just interviews of the cast and creators talking about the show and the mythos of Superman, and not any kind of new content?

Yep - that's exactly what it was...

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9 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

I figured it had something to do with touching the pod/crystal, and that activating something in his DNA. I don't remember seeing Jonathan touch either, correct? But then Jonathan did seem to be a bit powered up already, so maybe not. I don't think they're going to go with one twin having powers and the other not for long. 

Also the constant dressing of the twins in white vs black was a bit much after the first scene or two. Yes show, I see one is the golden boy and the other is troubled and more likely to turn "bad". 

The barn incident where Jordan showed invulnerability happened before he touched the ship and got the crystal. It appears his powers are gradually coming in like puberty. 

However, I wonder if some of his issues are really caused due to his kryptonian DNA. His behavior reminded me of someone who was being overstimulated. It is possible he got some heigtened senses just not to Clark's level because of being half human. 

Frankly, I am surprised Lois and Clark dismissed him repeatedly as having powers because of his issues and he didnt have it easy as Jon.  There are downsides to Clark's powers especially if uncontrolled. Being that he was also half human they should have considered it would be different.  They only mentioned testing Jon at the fortress and their repeat certainty Jordan didn't have powers makes me think they didnt bother test him. Both should have been tested just in case so they could be prepared.

I really hope the show does not follow the usual tropes and do good son/bad son. Or make the shy introvert loner kid go bad.

I really liked the premiere. Elizabeth and Tyler have great chemistry. The relationship between the twins seems natural. Solid premiere 

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On 2/24/2021 at 12:24 PM, norcalgal said:

 

And I agree with @Paloma (or anyone else) who is confused about references to Crisis on Infinite Earth. I don't watch any Arrowverse shows, so I hope they will rarely refer to characters/events on other CW shows.

I didn’t watch the arrowverse stuff either
 

crisis on Infinite Earths is also a DC Comics (book) crossover event. The arrowverse didn’t invent it. 

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23 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In various incarnations of Superman, Kal-El had his powers manifests at different times and ways. In Chris Reeve Superman, he was super-strong straight out of the rocket ship. In the Man of Steel, (the 80s comic) he basically came into his powers around the age that the twins are. In Henry Cavill Man of Steel, the same thing, except things like super-hearing and vision were overpowering to him. 

But in the Arrowverse, Kara had her full powers from the moment she arrived on Earth at the age of 12-13, and she in fact had a hard time initially adjusting to the sensory overload they caused. That's why SHE wears glasses. They're made of a special lead alloy that helps keep her vision powers in check, so she actually has to remove her glasses (or at least lower them) in order to use her heat vision or x-ray vision.

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