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S08.E10: The Devil's Work

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40 minutes ago, Cammi said:

Men Going Their Own Way- its a self proclaimed "red pill" group with misogynists undertones 

Only I wouldn't call it undertones. Pretty much front and center.

Edited by Pepper Mostly
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15 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

 

 Mike is a terrible person. I don't care how nutty Natalie is. He brought her here with the expectation that they would be getting married. Of course Natalie wants to talk about planning the wedding. He's leading her on, and worse, he's delighting in her misery. He mutters about "communication issues" but he won't talk. He's treating her badly so she'll dump him and he can complain about ungrateful bitches who don't appreciate a nice guy like him. I bet he's full on MGTOW. There's a heavy streak of misogyny there. 

I think Mike sucks in his own way lately, but I dont see misogyny coming from him. He is just a guy who is no longer interested in a certain woman, and is being incredibly passive aggressive about it. I think he truly does need, like someone mentioned, a localish woman who may not be glamorous but can share his lifestyle and won't look down on him for watching TV and eating what he likes. He is not doing Natalie the honor of being direct with her and sending her home.

Natalie is used to Russian dating customs and I see the cultural disconnect. If Mike was Russian, he would slather her with love, flowers, and attention while simultaneously dating other women behind her back. 

..

Edited by Lily247
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10 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Most of these couple should not get married.  Not only are they not on the same page, they aren't even in the same book.  Yara/Jovi and Natalee/Mike seem to actually hate each other.  Ryan is definitely sleeping with someone else.  I agree with the psychic.  He is using Stephanie to get to the US and then he is going to move to California to be with all the other Belizeans.  I hope she took her diamond ring back.  

I'll take your "not in the same book" and raise you one "not even in the same book store!"

Also, if Stephanie took the ring back, how will he ever propose to her? I have to say, this was the first time I ever heard of giving your 27 year old fiance a family heirloom in case he wanted to propose to you! That logic speaks VOLUMES!

Edited by lilysmom
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Stephanie is trying to use her money to control Ryan. I agree with everything Ryan said to her.  

I'm so happy that Yara gathered Jovi's parents like a ponytail. They were proudly showing off their ignorance.  

Rebecca can not be serious.  The woman was just offering to help them move. GO HOME  Natalie! Mike said he's not in love with you and he barely hides his contempt for her. What else does she need to hear?

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Stephanie makes Darcy look as self controlled and diplomatic as the Queen of England. Good one, TLC. Every season we wonder how they'll outdo themselves. But they do.

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3 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Stephanie makes Darcy look as self controlled and diplomatic as the Queen of England. Good one, TLC. Every season we wonder how they'll outdo themselves. But they do.

Remember when many folks opined that Angela was a little bit crazy, but nothing like Lisa, who took it to a whole different level?

Then when Angela was featured for another season, we all realized that she's every bit as horrible as Lisa.

I think if (heaven forbid) they brought Darcy back for another season, we'd say things like, "Well, at least Stephanie runs her own business; she's not living off her father's largesse in her middle-ages."  

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5 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Stephanie makes Darcy look as self controlled and diplomatic as the Queen of England. Good one, TLC. Every season we wonder how they'll outdo themselves. But they do.

It seems like the producers are winking at us this season, as they line up logical and rational non-Americans to run circles around the Americans. Yara, Julia, even Ryan are all making more sense than their partners.

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9 hours ago, Mean Jeanne said:

Rebecca is waaaaay too old to pull off the overly done Cupid’s bow lipstick look. Nothing says pathetic like a woman trying to look 20 years younger.

And could Mike possibly be any more checked out on that relationship? It’s almost making me feel sorry for Natalie. ALMOST

ETA This therapy session is a hoot. Natalie is doing a good job of hiding her crazy from the therapist

I love the way Natalie puts the washer woman hair up with minimal makeup when she needs someone on her side like the therapist.  Mike is a dud. No personality.  Why does he say he loves her in his thinking head.  Why did he bring her back?  I think he just wants to come home to a woman, eat, drink beer, and get laid on a daily basis.  Natalie just wants to be in America, get the green card and see what happens from there.  No love there.  Marriage is hard enough when there’s love.  These two don’t have a prayer.

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So, almost immediately in this episode Mike is cutting vegetables for Natalie and she tells me that she doesn't like how he cuts them.  Her continual criticisms underscores how she will never be satisfied with who he is.  However, his interactions with his hair stylist show that he is way more comfortable with other women, but I think that he only wants someone who he thinks is "hot."  Therefore, he will never be satisfied with someone local.  And, I was really disappointed in the "therapist" who, when hearing how much disconnect and lack of love there was between them, did not immediately advise them to just go their own ways rather than force this relationship.  They are not even engaged at this point so why prolong the hate and suffering?

Rebecca was certainly all about Muslim culture when her jealousy kicked in.  "He cannot be alone with a female in his apartment" after not only being with him in Tunisia, but keeping him in an apartment that only has a mattress.  Where was this cultural concern when he asked her to keep her arms covered in Tunisia along with his other cultural expectations when she was there?  Awfully convenient to bring out those concerns when he is in the U.S. and she has already explained that life in the U.S. would be very different from life in Tunisia.

It amuses me to read various comments about Team Yara and Team Jovi as I am very decidedly Team Neither One.  However, I don't fast-forward through them like I do Tarek and Hazel.

Stephanie sure is in way over her head.  So, she pays a psychic to tell her what anyone of us would tell her for free-that Ryan will leave her for a younger woman.  And, I think that she looks over 60 (and I am in that club so I'm not shaming her or anything) and is desperate to be seen as younger (along with Rebecca).  Gifts are gifts (per my BFF Judge Judy), yet she continues to hold them over everyone's heads.  Like Mike, I think she could be happy with someone local, but that wouldn't fit in with her self-image.

The one thing that makes me happy about Discovery+ is that I don't have to see those people in the regular show on regular cable (and no, I'm not going to pay extra to see them even though I do miss Pillow Talk).

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1 hour ago, Cammi said:

Men Going Their Own Way- its a self proclaimed "red pill" group with misogynists undertones 

I have never heard of that acrynom ever, in my day we would have called it a man being an asshole...no guess work involved, lol.

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Did Jovi ever agree to live in Budapest. Just because she wants to go there does mean Jovi needs to go if he doesn't want to. Just like Yara shouldn't be forced to live in the US if she doesn't want to. Maybe they should have discussed this before getting engaged?

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5 minutes ago, BravoAddict72 said:

Did Jovi ever agree to live in Budapest. Just because she wants to go there does mean Jovi needs to go if he doesn't want to. Just like Yara shouldn't be forced to live in the US if she doesn't want to. Maybe they should have discussed this before getting engaged?

Or raw dogging it again.

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If Yara loves the idea of living in Budapest so much, why didn't she find a rich Hungarian (or other European) guy to marry? I get that she wants to be closer to her family, but why isn't that equally important for Jovi, jerk though he may be? It's only 400 miles from Moldova to Hungary, but it's over 5500 miles from NOLA to Budapest. Also, he seems to be working on rigs in the Atlantic, and it's probably easier access from a major port city. 

Stephanie looks youthful when she's hula-hooping, but she walks like an old lady (older than she is). 

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1 hour ago, Silver Bells said:

I love the way Natalie puts the washer woman hair up with minimal makeup when she needs someone on her side like the therapist.  Mike is a dud. No personality.  Why does he say he loves her in his thinking head.  Why did he bring her back?  I think he just wants to come home to a woman, eat, drink beer, and get laid on a daily basis.  Natalie just wants to be in America, get the green card and see what happens from there.  No love there.  Marriage is hard enough when there’s love.  These two don’t have a prayer.

I think Natalie truly wants a future with Mike, I don't get the vibe that she is conniving to eventually leave him. She is 35/36 and realizing that her biological clock is at 11:59 if she wants to plan a family. 

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6 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

If Yara loves the idea of living in Budapest so much, why didn't she find a rich Hungarian (or other European) guy to marry? I get that she wants to be closer to her family, but why isn't that equally important for Jovi, jerk though he may be? It's only 400 miles from Moldova to Hungary, but it's over 5500 miles from NOLA to Budapest. Also, he seems to be working on rigs in the Atlantic, and it's probably easier access from a major port city. 

Stephanie looks youthful when she's hula-hooping, but she walks like an old lady (older than she is). 

Stephanie did look youthful when hula hooping. Maybe that's why she does it so much?

I pray that Yara and Jovi stop the screaming/cursing/bickering over petty things when the baby arrives. I hate it when couples who clearly have nothing in common and don't like each other have a baby. 

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13 hours ago, GladysCravits said:

Obviously Natalie didn’t wear her usual ton of makeup In order to create a certain Impression on the therapist.    Perhaps poor little Russian girl,  take my side?

Not to mention her “Heidi” hairdo. 

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What was wrong with the way Mike was cutting veggies?  She should be happy he’s doing it.  I hate cutting veggies.  In fact, I just bought a new Chefs knife for vegetable cutting.  She’s a pain in the ass.  I think she’s portraying the perfect wife.

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2 hours ago, lilysmom said:

Does anyone else think like me that the hairstylist was not joking when she asked Mike if he wanted to go on a date?

Yes, I mentioned this in the live chat.   She looked abashed for a few seconds when he responded like she had made a joke.   She may be easy to talk to, but she's doesn't have Natalie's body and is not good-looking facially.

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Unless we’re being manipulated by TLC production teams, none of these relationships stand a chance in hell of working. And I wish  they wouldn’t bring babies into the mix.

I don’t live in the US, but is the much revered Green Card actually green?

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5 minutes ago, Doublemint said:

Yes, I mentioned this in the live chat.   She looked abashed for a few seconds when he responded like she had made a joke.   She may be easy to talk to, but she's doesn't have Natalie's body and is not good-looking facially.

I did like the way he talked with the hairdresser tho.  It was an easy flow of back n forth.  He can’t and doesn’t talk with Natalie that easy way.

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The hairdresser with the questionable hair cut...my mother had brain surgery to remove a tumor and the doctor shaved her just like that, not sure if my mother would have chosen that style on her own.

4 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Unless we’re being manipulated by TLC production teams, none of these relationships stand a chance in hell of working. And I wish  they wouldn’t bring babies into the mix.

I don’t live in the US, but is the much revered Green Card actually green?

I believe it tis.  

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These people.  Yara and her endless complaining.  I don’t know how she could ever stay with any guy, she would complain them to death.  Jovi is no prize, but he always has a bewildered look on his face; has no idea what to do to make her happy, and I don’t know either.  I hope she can at least crack a smile at the baby.  

Watching Mike and Natalie is pure depression.  He is enjoying her confusion and, dare I say, heartache?  She realizes she blew it when she threw the ring back at him, but he does not appear willing or able to move past that.  At this point, I am annoyed with him that he has made me feel sorry for Natalie.  It is starting to dawn on her there is no hope here, and unless he has a total and complete personality transplant, it’s over.  She may be nutty but that doesn’t mean she has to be demeaned and demoralized by Mike.  Pack up and head home, my dear, leave him to his beer and self-pity. 

I FF through Ryan and Stephanie, they are ridiculous and Stephanie is not grounded in reality on a reality show.  I am becoming besotted with Zied.  Another guy trying to figure out what the hell is going on around him, but always unfailingly polite and cordial.  Poor guy looks confused and trying not to say the wrong thing.  I liked his sister too, she has a wicked side-eye.

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34 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Unless we’re being manipulated by TLC production teams, none of these relationships stand a chance in hell of working. And I wish  they wouldn’t bring babies into the mix.

I don’t live in the US, but is the much revered Green Card actually green?

I don't live in the States either but I know alot of my friends who are back in Greece are not fans about moving either to Canada or the States. They rather go to different European countries that have better opportunities.  That way they are closer to home and can possibly do long weekends or 1 week vacations back home. 

Mike and Natalie. I mentioned this in the online chat but I do wonder if TLC  is playing the game. I mean look at Anna and Mursel.  They turned their boring storyline into something because he left during the 90 days and then came back in the 11th hour.  I mean we saw Natalie take off at the beginning of the show so Mike will probably chase her down with the ring, do some grand gesture on how he loves her on one knee and they marry at the courthouse the next day with Uncle Bo as witness,

Yara and Jovi. I think Yara is learning that vacation Jovi and home Jovi are two different people.  Good luck kid. You'll need it.

Rebecca and Zied: Man. Did she show her age when she went sourpuss when that girl offered to help them move.  Seriously.  What is Rebecca going to do? Lock Zied up? Not let him work? Add a tracker?  The Rebeccas, the Mollys, the Stephanies, Lauras, Lisas all have one thing in common the same as the Davids, Tariks, etc.  They shop for someone that they can control with the green card and their money (even if they lack the cash). Rebecca could easily find someone within her age group in the States. She's pleasant enough when she's not sour face and she's not that crazy like Laura and Lisa. So why does she insist on going on line and shopping for a husband? Zied will tire of her and leave in 3-4 years. He maynot want kids now but he will in the future. And a Muslim wife.  

Stephanie and Ryan. Seriously. I think TLC just needed someone and hired these people out of desperation.  Ryan looks like he's physically and mentally checked out and Stephanie is batshit crazy.  How did this woman have 2 successful medi spas?  

Tarik and Hazel. She's another one that's biding her time. I give them 4 years max. She'll bring Harry over and then find a nice lady and they will set up house.  Hazel isn't into Tarik at all. Just a means to an end.  I mean why did she want the pillows between them when they first met but now she's all freaky in the sheets and wants a thruple?   Hopefully Tarik hasn't invested too much in the Tarzel shit.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, maxmama said:

FF through Ryan and Stephanie, they are ridiculous and Stephanie is not grounded in reality on a reality show.  I am becoming besotted with Zied.  Another guy trying to figure out what the hell is going on around him, but always unfailingly polite and cordial.  Poor guy looks confused and trying not to say the wrong thing.  I liked his sister too, she has a wicked side-eye.

Yes, Ziad is something.  One in a million.  I see trouble there.  Baby is jealous.  Me thinks he deserves better.  Instead of buying those ridiculous tattoos, she should concentrate on a nice bed, sheets, pillows and food in the house.  He can’t survive on coffee.

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I think it is interesting that Jovi’s friends asked how long they have to stay married. I don’t think anyone on this show has been sent back home yet after a divorce. Not even Larissa. Am I wrong? Did I miss someone? So Jovi pretty sure all she has to do is marry you, and she is staying. No way she will stay for 3 years!

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1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

If Yara loves the idea of living in Budapest so much, why didn't she find a rich Hungarian (or other European) guy to marry? I get that she wants to be closer to her family, but why isn't that equally important for Jovi, jerk though he may be? It's only 400 miles from Moldova to Hungary, but it's over 5500 miles from NOLA to Budapest. Also, he seems to be working on rigs in the Atlantic, and it's probably easier access from a major port city. 

Stephanie looks youthful when she's hula-hooping, but she walks like an old lady (older than she is). 

She looks like one of those aging ladies (no flames, I am almost her age) that doesn't move a MUSCLE above the neck, and walks around gingerly for fear either 1. fear of making skin sag 2. b/c she can't b/c of fillers. There's a woman in my neighborhood like this she reminds me off, she wears one of those like facelift-braces to jog so it doesn't make it sag. 

Edited by evansmom10
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12 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Jovi's parents were awful. They judged Yara's possible pregnancy 100% in terms of how it affected them. Same thing with Jovi potentially moving. And someone needs to tell them that what Yara wears is simply not their business.

Ryan is skeevy, but how does one even address something as mind-bogglingly stupid as "My psychic said you're going to leave me. Wanna tell me why?" or whatever it was? And no, Stephanie, your psychic didn't tell you names and dates. YOU told HER. It's called Cold Reading. Charlatans like Sylvia Browne, James van Praagh and John Edward made million$ with it. PS: If a healthy 27-year-old male has been with you for several days and the two of you haven't had sex when you clearly want it, it means he's not into you.

....or that the penicillin needs a few more days to kick in.  

And just LOL @ Stephani trying to defend the psychic.  As best I can tell her defense was that the psychic "has gotten some things right"  Girl, wut?  If I heard about your poor life choices I could predict your future with 100% accuracy, the fact that Maria only got SOME things right means she isn't even a good conartist. 

9 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Are Mike and Natalie not having sex?  His "Let's get drunk and screw let loose" line suggests there isn't much fun going on.

My personal opinion is that there is sex, and its probably very good for Mike because Natalie is crazy and will do anything to get that ring back.  

But, she isn't very subtle, so the minute its over, she is either talking about getting the ring back, buying a wedding dress, or Mama's plane ticket to the wedding.  And so its very clear that she doesn't want to have sex with him because she finds him attractive, she is just having sex with him to get her way.  

 

Also, if anyone asks Mike out in front of a camera crew, its just for the show.  

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14 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

I wouldn't want my future father in law more or less slut shaming me for what I wore.

Was she even dressed revealingly when she was meeting Father Jovi? Or had he just committed to memory the pictures of her showing skin? So gross. No wonder Yara wants to flee to Budapest. 

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2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Unless we’re being manipulated by TLC production teams, none of these relationships stand a chance in hell of working. And I wish  they wouldn’t bring babies into the mix.

I don’t live in the US, but is the much revered Green Card actually green?

LOL, no.  I think it used to be, but I'm pretty sure I saw an old one my parents had and it wasn't green. 

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2 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Ryan is skeevy, but how does one even address something as mind-bogglingly stupid as "My psychic said you're going to leave me. Wanna tell me why?" or whatever it was? And no, Stephanie, your psychic didn't tell you names and dates. YOU told HER. It's called Cold Reading. Charlatans like Sylvia Browne, James van Praagh and John Edward made million$ with it. PS: If a healthy 27-year-old male has been with you for several days and the two of you haven't had sex when you clearly want it, it means he's not into you.

At 20 yrs old, my dopey sister and niece went to the physic.  She told my niece she was going to meet a man in uniform in two years.  My niece is now 62 and still waiting.  These two are so cheap with everything,but go to physics all the time.  Go figure.

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I cannot stand Natalie but Mike is being straight up cruel. He keeps saying they need to communicate and “work on things” but he shuts down completely or acts like a passive aggressive teenager. Will he give her back the ring? Why doesn’t he want to plan the wedding? Does he actually want to marry her? In the words of Ron Swanson, “when you have a fish on the line, you don't just drag it behind the boat. You either reel it in, or you cut him loose.” He looks ridiculous with that Bluetooth earpiece in during the counseling session. 
 

Man can you imagine the arguments Yara and Jovi will have once they have a screaming infant and nobody has slept more than 90 consecutive minutes? If neither of them want a frickin baby, then book yourselves a hasty abortion. JFC. 
 

Seeing Stephanie down those drinks explains the constant slurring and slow blinking. She’s manipulative and vengeful even though she’s the one who fucked his cousin. She will always, ALWAYS use her money as leverage. And I’m totally with Ryan on the psychic thing. How is he to defend himself against something he hasn’t done yet? Her desperation for sex is just nauseating and I hope she fucks Harris again next week just to mess things up even more. 

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7 minutes ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

Was she even dressed revealingly when she was meeting Father Jovi? Or had he just committed to memory the pictures of her showing skin? So gross. No wonder Yara wants to flee to Budapest. 

worse yet, it sounds like he was trolling her social media looking at all her sexy pictures.  Disgusting.  I think she has more to fear from Father Jovi getting "the wrong message" if she isn't wearing a burqa, and will probably get the "wrong idea" even if she is.  

I have no idea why they think telling yara she is in danger of getting raped if she isn't covered up is going to make the prospect of America sound any better.  

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Also, now that its been pointed out, it is notable that Jovi almost always has an open bottle of beer.  Like as soon as he got to his parents place, he had an open bottle of beer and handed one to his dad.  And he really doesn't think there is a problem.  

I've heard that Victoria House is most of the most expensive resort. 

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The only good couple on this show is Big Mike and his hairdresser. She can temporarily make it look like he's not losing his hair, to his benefit. She's so damned thirsty that he'd have no problem "letting loose." He's so full of himself, he'd never settle for a hometown hairdresser when he has international intrigue with a loonie from the Ukraine.

None of these couples are going anywhere but divorce court but they are particularly toxic. He's a gaslighting asshole. That whole conversation about her not having a dress and him consoling her with "that's okay baby, I don't have a suit, we're in the same boat." No, Mike. You aren't in the same boat. She's dependent on you to buy a wedding dress and you aren't actively making plans with her to plan a wedding. You can order a suit from DXL with a promo code any time. Show some empathy and let Natalie having *some* notice that she's becoming your alien bride.  

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15 minutes ago, alotmorestupider said:

I cannot stand Natalie but Mike is being straight up cruel. He keeps saying they need to communicate and “work on things” but he shuts down completely or acts like a passive aggressive teenager. Will he give her back the ring? Why doesn’t he want to plan the wedding? Does he actually want to marry her? In the words of Ron Swanson, “when you have a fish on the line, you don't just drag it behind the boat. You either reel it in, or you cut him loose.” He looks ridiculous with that Bluetooth earpiece in during the counseling session. 
 

Man can you imagine the arguments Yara and Jovi will have once they have a screaming infant and nobody has slept more than 90 consecutive minutes? If neither of them want a frickin baby, then book yourselves a hasty abortion. JFC. 
 

Seeing Stephanie down those drinks explains the constant slurring and slow blinking. She’s manipulative and vengeful even though she’s the one who fucked his cousin. She will always, ALWAYS use her money as leverage. And I’m totally with Ryan on the psychic thing. How is he to defend himself against something he hasn’t done yet? Her desperation for sex is just nauseating and I hope she fucks Harris again next week just to mess things up even more. 

If you expect something for a gift, you shouldn't give it. 

Yes, "thank you" are two free words that are easy to say, but she is clearly trying to buy him and his family.  I guess it would be more expensive for her to buy a local boy toy.

LOL at this turd talking about he has "invested everything in this relationship" after he just got back from a four day luxury vacation in Mexico while his fiance was detained.  

Amira can and should do much better.  

 

LOL, another mommy feeling sorry for her asshole son.  I think single women can raise wonderful and strong men.  This was not that woman, talking about Andrew's "suffering" when he hung out at a resort while his fiance was detained.

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LOL, the only one taking a chance in this situation is Amira...AGAIN.  

And this conversation with his mommy makes it clear that these are ALL Andrew's harebrained ideas, and the only person who gets actually hurt is Amira.  But he doesn't care.  

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25 minutes ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

Was she even dressed revealingly when she was meeting Father Jovi? Or had he just committed to memory the pictures of her showing skin? So gross. No wonder Yara wants to flee to Budapest. 

Why did dumbass show the father in the first place?  Bragging?  You don’t show private things to your parent.

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Is Andrew complaining about paying for a trip that he ended up using while his fiance was being detained in Mexico City?  LOL.  Run Amira!

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Yara is mouthy, young, and not ashamed of her body.

I'd bet good money that Father Jovi is going to try something inappropriate with her at some point when he is "drunk"

He seems like the type that puts women in two categories and has pre-labelled Yara a slut.  Its very unclear to me that Jovi showed him pictures because I think its fully possible and maybe even probable that when he had some down time he looked up her social media accounts on his own. 

 

Oh and now they are implying Yara is a thief too.  

Has absolutely no one watched this show?  Why would you even make these comments when you're going to coming off looking like exactly what you are?

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4 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

Why did dumbass show the father in the first place?  Bragging?  You don’t show private things to your parent.

I think his dad said those pics where on Jovi's FB page so that's where he saw him.  Both parents are total dicks.   And who just leaves Yara in the house by herself?  Do both Jovi and dad not drive?  I agree with a previous poster, I would guess a DUI for both of them.  Call an Uber and let mom stay with Yara so maybe they can talk privately especially if they are sooo concerned about her sticking fingers around their Walmart valuables.

And speaking of total dicks Mike is just working my last nerve.  Natalie is no saint either but good lawd this guy just reeks of male chauvinistic pig.  Natalie move back to Ukraine so both of you can get off my t.v.

Hazel and Tarik zzzzzzzzzz...........good lawd these two are boring A.F.!  Hazel behaves as if she's half asleep most of the time.  I'm really sorry her son had a fever but honestly I could care less about her being bisexual or anything else in their lives.  *yawn*

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3 hours ago, sempervivum said:

 

Stephanie looks youthful when she's hula-hooping, but she walks like an old lady (older than she is). 

Stephanie misses the mark bc she tries to look way younger than she actually is. If she aimed at looking, say, a dignified 42 year old (10 years younger than her age) rather than like a 25 year old she would nail it. Also, paying attention to her voice, manner of speech, hands, would be a big help. 

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UO, but I understand where Mike is coming from.  

He just wants a night where they are cool, loose and don't fight.  Natalie immediately reverts to talking about heavy stuff.  If I had been working all week, waking up at the crack of dawn and doing a two hour drive, in addition to an eight hour day, it would be so damned exhausting to come home every night to someone riding me about this or that.  How can they ever have a relationship if they cannot even just have a night where they hang out and chat.  She is just so unpleasant all the time.  And in the rare moments where she isn't being unpleasant, she is being manipulative.  

I'd smell a rat too if Natalie suggested counseling.  Because all of a sudden she wants to talk, but ONLY with someone she thinks she can manipulate into taking her side against Mike.  

I'm not sure if Mike ever had any intention of giving Natalie a chance.  After the shit she pulled on him and the degree to which she played with his emotions, I don't blame him for a little payback.  

But its possible that Mike was willing to give it a chance, but Natalie is suffocating, unpleasant or clearly manipulative.  Mike's rose colored glasses are off, and so its possible that its becoming very obvious that he is nothing more than a breathing human male with a penis and thats all Natalie wants him for.  

But for him, being this cruel is going to change who HE is.  Miring yourself in a vendetta doesn't just hurt another person, it changes you too.  He needs to let her go.  

 

"Tunisia is so old fashioned!  You can't even make out on a park bench  in front of the motocross!"

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4 hours ago, Lily247 said:

I think Natalie truly wants a future with Mike, I don't get the vibe that she is conniving to eventually leave him. She is 35/36 and realizing that her biological clock is at 11:59 if she wants to plan a family. 

I think they are laughing all the way to the bank.  They are on the show to make $$; at one point last season Mike implied he wasn't ready to have a family because of his debt which has either been eliminated in full or reduced to a manageable load.  So they signed up for another season, but they need some kind of conflict as Mike doesn't have overbearing parents to interfere with where he sleeps and to make Natalie chop wood to earn her keep.  They are about the same age so there is none of the May-December vibe like the two cougars have for a plot.  He works long hours, but, unlike  Jovi, he comes home at night.  He drinks, but not as much as Jovi.   They aren't interested in being in a threesome or some other arrangement.  They have nothing,.  So they have to bring something and that something is mostly faked quibbling with and snarking at each other.  Natalie overacts, and Mike often has the look that amateur actors have when they are more focused on recalling lines than on staying in character.  And they seem comfortable with it to a great degree,  like a long- married couple that are always sniping at each other.    In their case, the Oscar goes to Mike.

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4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I don’t live in the US, but is the much revered Green Card actually green?

 

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

LOL, no.  I think it used to be, but I'm pretty sure I saw an old one my parents had and it wasn't green. 

It was in 2011 when an Australian coworker showed me his. I think I actually said "Oh wow, they really are green."

 

1 hour ago, alotmorestupider said:

He looks ridiculous with that Bluetooth earpiece in during the counseling session.

Those were all the rage about 10-15 years ago. Hey, you never know when the Vice President might suddenly call and ask your advice about....whatever it is Mike does for a living. Were I the therapist, I would demand he remove it. If Mike's not going to be taking calls during the session, there's no purpose in wearing the earpiece. If he IS going to be taking calls, I'd ask him to reschedule when he could give me and Natalie his undivided attention.

 

5 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

...I was really disappointed in the "therapist" who, when hearing how much disconnect and lack of love there was between them, did not immediately advise them to just go their own ways rather than force this relationship.  They are not even engaged at this point so why prolong the hate and suffering?

Better to wring a bunch of additional session$ out of them first. Remember: money is no object when TLC is footing the bill.

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Andrew is overacting so. hard that I worry he's just never going to star in the telenovela that he thinks he's auditioning for.  

JKLOL I don't worry about him at all.  He'll be fine working at the LARP-ing day care for the rest of his life and never actually landing an acting job.  But not for lack of trying.  And hoooooboy he is trying so so hard.  Is this really the avenue he thinks is going to land him that role in Final Fantasy: Live! on (off-)Broadway! ?

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@greekmom, I agree that Yara only knows vacation/time off Jovi. If she has issues with him drinking, those need to be addressed. 5 beers before afternoon is a bit much, especially if it is daily. I like a glass of wine with dinner sometimes and when it is cold, brandy before bed. He is showing you who he is. Maybe he will grow up a bit now that he will be a parent. Or maybe not. At some point, he may face rehab. Or you will be putting up with someone who doesn’t drink for 30 days and then parties for 30 days. 
 

Steph and Rebecca are both hung up on their fiancés being 27. Steph’s fortune teller friend needs to be objective and not put her opinions about Steph in her readings. It doesn’t take a fortune teller to look at her relationship and not see the many red flags. As a friend she can ask why Steph is paying his and his family’s expenses, treating him like a child, etc. Control? He won’t be around if you are not paying his way? He comes across more as a servant than her equal partner.

Amira, stay in Europe. Life with Andrew may not be what you hope for.

Edited by Frozendiva · Reason: Wine not one
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7 hours ago, lilysmom said:

I'll take your "not in the same book" and raise you one "not even in the same book store!"

Also, if Stephanie took the ring back, how will he ever propose to her? I have to say, this was the first time I ever heard of giving your 27 year old fiance a family heirloom in case he wanted to propose to you! That logic speaks VOLUMES!

And the 27 year old fiancé has a history of pawning losing the gifts she gives him!

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