Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
saoirse

The Marvel Saga: Marvel Mysteries to the MCU

Recommended Posts

The spot to discuss all things Marvel, as relates to (or not!) The Falcon And The Winter Soldier!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

Moving my reply here, so as not to get OT in the episode thread (hope that is okay):

9 minutes ago, Kromm said:

I'm not sure the story works in reverse order. In the original, the employment of John Walker was very much posed as pushback to the notion of Sam Wilson being too woke, too proactive, and of him symbolising the new shape of America rather than mythical past. 

I guess I may not be familiar with that particular storyline (I'm assuming it comes from the Sam Wilson/Captain America series where he actually did become Cap). In the original John Walker storyline in the comics, Sam was never even asked to become Captain America (he was dismissed by the Commission on Superhuman Activities, along with a number of other potential candidates). Sam advised Steve not to do the bidding of the CSA, which was trying to treat him as a government employee; and then, later, Sam is one of the heroes that goes looking for Steve when he disappeared and encourages him to take on a new identity. Walker was being played off against Rogers in that storyline, rather than Sam.

So that's why I was thinking it is still possible to tell a story like you describe, because even in the comics they didn't both come about at the same time (Steve was replaced by Walker; many years later, Steve is replaced by Sam).

9 minutes ago, Kromm said:

I'm also not fond of this very generic seeming evil organization.  It seems at a deliberate remove from anything we can identify with from our current world. 

My take is that they are either advocating for an extremist form of globalization (a single world state) or else just anarchy; in either case, they want to see the abolition of any nation-states entirely. That isn't necessarily completely out there from movements that exist in the world today, there just aren't any organized movements that I am aware of to this extent, nor any that engage in terrorism to promote their positions.

The Flag-Smashers seem to be a pretty clear analogue to ULTIMATUM from the comics (who were led by the Flag-Smasher). 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

In the comics, Joaquin Torres gets merged into Redwing and becomes the new Falcon.  If they go that route, then Sam would pretty much have to become Captain America down the line.

 

  • Surprise 1

Share this post


Link to post
26 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

In the comics, Joaquin Torres gets merged into Redwing and becomes the new Falcon.  If they go that route, then Sam would pretty much have to become Captain America down the line.

Oooh. I like this. My first instinct when Torres got introduced in the premiere was "OH SHIT, HE'S DEAD, ISN'T HE???" So I was glad to see him survive!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I wouldn't get too attached to Torres just yet. One thing the MCU has been more open to than some other comic book adaptations is abandoning established canon in favour of telling a good story.

He still seems like a 'redshirt we're made to care about' to me, but it could go a number of ways - he dies to give Sam motivation, he joins the Flag Smashers because he embraces the idealistic vision or he does survive to be a sidekick of sorts.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think it is likely to happen, but I hope that Josiah X gets name-dropped at least during the course of this show, since they've introduced Isaiah and Eli. 

They really leaned heavily into Priest's Black Panther for the MCU, so I'm a little more optimistic that Josiah might not be as ignored as he is in the comics.

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

They really leaned heavily into Priest's Black Panther for the MCU, so I'm a little more optimistic that Josiah might not be as ignored as he is in the comics.

Was that from The Crew the series by Priest that followed his run on BP? I think I read that but it came out around the time I was getting out of comics so I have almost no memory of it.

Speaking of Priest Black Panther I wonder if Everett K Ross will show up. He is connected to Zemo and Sharon. Plus Martin Freeman is a great actor. Plus I am probably the only person in the world with 2 pieces of art featuring Ross on my wall.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

In the comics, The Power Broker had a scientist named Karl Malus who developed a super soldier type serum.  I'm assuming that that's where the Flag Smashers got their powers, and maybe his text to Karli about her having his property means that she has his super soldiers.

There was also a comic book character called the Flag Smasher, And the first of them (there were two) was named Karl Morgenthau. He believed that there should be no nations, just one world, like the Flagsmashers in this series.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, RedElf said:

In the comics, The Power Broker had a scientist named Karl Malus who developed a super soldier type serum.  I'm assuming that that's where the Flag Smashers got their powers, and maybe his text to Karli about her having his property means that she has his super soldiers.

Not that this series is necessarily bound by what went on in the Netflix Marvel series, but Jessica Jones used Karl Malus as a character in its S2, and he was killed in there IIRC. 

Share this post


Link to post

Finally, I am #marvelforlife, but I've never read the comics. Can anyone comment on if all the movies/tv shows stay true to the comics? Or do they take liberties with them? Do the comics spoil it for you?

The short answer is that there are lots of differences between the comics and the MCU in formatting, themes, pacing, etc.

The MCU has been around for just over 12 years now, and mostly been coordinated pretty tightly to have a common vision and continuity featuring less than 100 main heroes, villains and their partners.

The comics in that time probably have featured many times the number of characters, plots, versions of the characters, etc. There probably have been in that span different creative teams putting their spin on, say, Iron Man or Cap to emphasize different aspects of their personalities or to have different things happen.

And of course, for all the main characters in the MCU, there is a history in the comics that goes back decades, with even different takes. 

In some cases, the plots of the MCU have been borrowed and modernized from the comics. I don't know the details, but I know there were runs in the comics where both Sam and Bucky at different times were wielding the shield and going by Captain America.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm trying to figure out Bucky's "status" in the current state of the Word as presented by this show.

He was pardoned by the U.S. Government. However, judging by Yori, the waitress/bar manager Leah, and the kids from the past episode - normal private citizens are not aware of him. However, the Police seem to "know" him or atleast were nonchalant about the warrant. (just a component of the white guy gets treated better thing?) Are private Citizens aware of "Bucky Barnes" but have no idea what he looks like?

This may be something that will be ironed out in future episodes. Just making sure I got it straight from what we've been told thus far.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

3 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm trying to figure out Bucky's "status" in the current state of the Word as presented by this show.

He was pardoned by the U.S. Government. However, judging by Yori, the waitress/bar manager Leah, and the kids from the past episode - normal private citizens are not aware of him. However, the Police seem to "know" him or atleast were nonchalant about the warrant. (just a component of the white guy gets treated better thing?) Are private Citizens aware of "Bucky Barnes" but have no idea what he looks like?

This may be something that will be ironed out in future episodes. Just making sure I got it straight from what we've been told thus far.

 

Bucky and Sam did help save the universe from Thanos, so there's that.  Also, Bucky is likely known to be one of the deadliest human beings on the planet, so the beat cops are probably more inclined to "handle him with care."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm trying to figure out Bucky's "status" in the current state of the Word as presented by this show.

He was pardoned by the U.S. Government. However, judging by Yori, the waitress/bar manager Leah, and the kids from the past episode - normal private citizens are not aware of him. However, the Police seem to "know" him or atleast were nonchalant about the warrant. (just a component of the white guy gets treated better thing?) Are private Citizens aware of "Bucky Barnes" but have no idea what he looks like?

This may be something that will be ironed out in future episodes. Just making sure I got it straight from what we've been told thus far.

 

I think you are pretty much right.

He isn't famous enough to be easily recognised outside of context. Probably he is less recognisable than Sam.

His pardon doesn't seem begrudging, and the restoration of his reputation seems to be in the public knowledge:

- He was allowed on that militarily base. Possibly he was cleared as he is now a signatory of the Accords.

- Walker seems to think having him onside is good PR, emphasising his reputation as a friend of Steve.

- in the cop scene, they apologised that they were taking Bucky in on a technical violation. The reversal from rascist stereotyping to individualised treatment has already happened. So if the cops / public all hated the Winter Soldier then we might have seen that in their attitude during the arrest.

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I think it is just the "famous people" phenomenon. I mean, the most well-known pictures of Bucky are the ones with long hair, and his most recognisable feature is the arm. Another Hair Cut and the arm hidden, and he is most likely hard to spot for a normal person. And remember, the police didn't recognize him or Sam immediately either. It was only when they realised who Sam is that they realised who Bucky actually was. Had they recognized Bucky they most likely would have made the connection and realised that the guy beside him is Sam.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

 

Thanks for answering my question! (Not sure why the quote contents didn't show)

The complexity of the characters plus how many there are is just astounding to me! Very well written all around IMO

Edited by sadiegirl1999

Share this post


Link to post

Bucky looks like his Howling Commando photo in the Smithsonian. Not enough people have visited yet....

  • Laugh 4

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you everyone! Great points! I guess the key thing is Bucky doesn't want to be recognized. He doesn't want the attention of fame brings and he's dealing with such shame and insecurity.

Yeah, his current look has The Clark Kent effect to the public. They recognized him better when he spent hours in the styling chair:😄
Sebastian-Stan-Civil-War-BTS-Bucky-hair-

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

13 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm trying to figure out Bucky's "status" in the current state of the Word as presented by this show.

He was pardoned by the U.S. Government. However, judging by Yori, the waitress/bar manager Leah, and the kids from the past episode - normal private citizens are not aware of him. However, the Police seem to "know" him or atleast were nonchalant about the warrant. (just a component of the white guy gets treated better thing?) Are private Citizens aware of "Bucky Barnes" but have no idea what he looks like?

This may be something that will be ironed out in future episodes. Just making sure I got it straight from what we've been told thus far.

 

Famous pro skateboarder Tony Hawk has raised numerous instances where people comment to him that he sort of looks like Tony Hawk or see him with skateboards and wonder if he's trying to be like Tony Hawk or things like that.

I bring this up because it shows how it's easy to not draw connections in real life to celebrities.

There may be a gap in the public's mind between the Bucky who is featured in the Smithsonian exhibit about Cap and the Howling Commandos on the one hand and the Winter Soldier guy who shot up DC a bit ago, the guy who was wanted for blowing up the U;N. and the guy who was part of the Avengers in defeating Thanos most recently.

I'd imagine there would be a range of folks, from people who barely know who Captain America is to people who are super-fans of every aspect of the Avengers and could tell you Bucky's favorite ice cream flavor.

 

Edited by Chicago Redshirt
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

From what I recall, people actually stopping and recognizing Avengers have been pretty rare. It's only happened on screen to Thor, Tony and Smart Hulk. All three of those incarnations are pretty instantly recognizable, I would say. The guy at the bank thought Sam looked familiar and Sam had to prompt him a little for him to get it. And the one cop did recognize them 'I think these guys are Avengers.' And the kid did immediately recognize him. (Just like the kid at the Smithsonian was the only one to recognize Steve that one time.)

I think Bucky's more likely to keep his head down and not really want the attention. Sam strikes me as the guy who would be more welcoming to the attention for the most part. That's just one of many ways in which they're different.

19 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The short answer is that there are lots of differences between the comics and the MCU in formatting, themes, pacing, etc.

 

I'm never going to see Frog Thor or Werewolf Cap. I'd be SHOCKED if we got Kid Loki for any Young Avengers stuff. And I've given up on them ever doing a good Phoenix story even now that the Avengers have taken possession of the cosmic entity. Maybe that's for the best, writers have been using it as a crutch regarding Jean for decades now.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Dandesun said:

I'm never going to see Frog Thor.....

 

There was the allusion to Loki turning Thor into a frog in the play "Odin" had to mark Loki's passing in Ragnarok. 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm trying to figure out Bucky's "status" in the current state of the Word as presented by this show.

He was pardoned by the U.S. Government. However, judging by Yori, the waitress/bar manager Leah, and the kids from the past episode - normal private citizens are not aware of him. However, the Police seem to "know" him or atleast were nonchalant about the warrant. (just a component of the white guy gets treated better thing?) Are private Citizens aware of "Bucky Barnes" but have no idea what he looks like?

This may be something that will be ironed out in future episodes. Just making sure I got it straight from what we've been told thus far.

 

The other cop told the one who was harassing Sam, "These are Avengers".  So he knew who Bucky was, anyway.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Second, how was Redwing government property? His flight suit from Winter Soldier was owned by the government, but would they own a suit that Stark built based on the original?

(From the ep 2 thread)

That second suit was Stark made? In any case, I think it was the suit he had in Civil War, which was confiscated by the government after Sam got arrested. I don’t think that should automatically make it government property, but still. Cap and Natasha stole the original suit pretty easily in Winter Soldier, so maybe they re-stole it when they busted Sam out of the Raft. Even the rather detailed but unofficial MCU wiki isn’t very conclusive about all this.

This is a case where the drive for more realism (pointing out it’s wildly expensive, etc) only raises more questions. In the 80s, I bet people just thought “he’s Falcon, he should use and quasi-own the suit”. 😃

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, RedElf said:

The other cop told the one who was harassing Sam, "These are Avengers".  So he knew who Bucky was, anyway.

 

That does seem like a bit of a script oversight. Because Bucky has really only been known in the modern era as someone who fought against the Avengers - suspected of bombing the UN in Vienna, fighting SHIELD and Black Panther, breaking out of the secure facility then taking part in the battle at the airport in Germany.

Since then he's been off the radar, in Wakanda. So perhaps the Wakandans livestreamed their battle against Thanos's army from Infinity War, and people saw him siding with the good guys.

It's fine, though. Movies and comics take shortcuts all the time, to get to where they want to go. Maybe there was a big news announcement that "James Buchanan Barnes, formerly Captain America's sidekick and then a brainwashed assassin for the Soviet Union and Hydra, has been given a pardon by the US government as thanks for everything he did for this country, and for him fighting with the Avengers to defeat the threat of Thanos."

I figure the superhero world is the same as the celebrity world in our universe - some people are big fans and know the ins and outs of everyone from Captain America to Squirrel Girl, some people are just vaguely familiar with the big names but take no particular interest. They might know Bucky if you said to them, 'you know, Bucky... Cap's buddy from the Second World War' but otherwise not it might not click.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Since then he's been off the radar, in Wakanda. So perhaps the Wakandans livestreamed their battle against Thanos's army from Infinity War, and people saw him siding with the good guys.

There's a really funny bit in The Editing Room's take on Endgame about shortcuts taken:

Quote

ZOE SALADANA

Yes I've once again renounced evil to join the good guys. Hear that, Infinity Stones? Just want to make that clear in case somebody uses you to dust all the bad guys!

 

  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post

This is interesting...

‘Falcon and Winter Soldier’: The Best Episode 3 Easter Eggs
Matt Singer     April 2, 2021
https://screencrush.com/falcon-and-winter-soldier-the-best-episode-3-easter-eggs/

Quote

The man responsible for Karli Morgenthau’s Super Soldier Serum is revealed to be a “Dr. Wilfred Nagel,” who the heroes find working in a secret lab hidden in a Madripoor shipping yard. The Dr. Nagel of Marvel Comics played a similar role in the creation of super soldiers; there, he’s the man who recreates the original Super Soldier Serum and then tests it on a group of African American soldiers during World War II. One of his test subjects is Isaiah Bradley, who later inherits the mantle of Captain America for a time. That’s the character played on last week’s Falcon and Winter Soldier by Carl Lumbly.

1. “Baron” Zemo
2. “Trouble Man”
3. Madripoor
4. Smiling Tiger
5. Selby
6. Sharon Carter
7. “Mr. America”
8. Dr. Nagel
9. “No Other Scientist Since Erskine”
10. Ayo of the Dora Milaje

Edited by tv echo
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

It's interesting they introduce Madripoor even as they erase Sokovia, suggesting that it was absorbed into its former neighboring countries. The latter made me think the MCU might try to dial down on Marvel's longtime use of fake foreign countries (despite real American cities, unlike DC's Metropolis/Gotham/Star City/Central City/etc). But Madripoor specifically is a big marker that they're laying groundwork for mutants, because in the comics that's been X-related for decades.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

The world being extremely unsettled post-Blip is way more plausible than how it was in Spider-Man: Far From Home where everything in NYC and Europe was basically as fine as it was pre-Blip. But FATWS is probably about contemporaneous with Far From Home.

Share this post


Link to post

They don't need Sokovia any longer. Wakanda and Madripoor on the other hand are handy places to keep around..

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/2/2021 at 10:05 PM, swanpride said:

They don't need Sokovia any longer. Wakanda and Madripoor on the other hand are handy places to keep around..

I'm wondering when they'll name drop The Savage Land.

Madripoor has always been connected to Wolverine but it's so handy as the wretched hive of scum and villainy that it's easy to make good use of it without Logan wearing an eyepatch wandering around. Again, I did like the cameo that The Princess Bar made. At any rate, despite it's X-origins it's a great place to use no matter what but especially if you're playing a seedy underground/criminal hangout.

And The Savage Land is also X-oriented but it's covered in dinosaurs and Ka-Zar lives there as the handy Tarzan stand in. You could conceivably use that for things other than X. Genosha... I don't expect to hear about Genosha until they bring mutants on board because it's entire existence (and destruction) is based on mutants.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Savage Lands is something I expect to see in a movie, soon. I mean Superheroes AND Dinosaurs? The two biggest audience magnets rolled in ONE movie? I would be extremely surprised if there weren't already writers throwing ideas around how to do a savage land movie.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

From episode 4 thread:

52 minutes ago, benteen said:

Disney decided to have Hydra break away from the Nazis, despite the fact that Red Skull is and was a gigantic Nazi in the comics.  So Cap didn't fight Nazis in the MCU though this show tries to convince the audience otherwise.

I'd say he fought both. The Howling Commandos were tasked to take down Hydra strongholds, but those were spread across occupied Europe. So I think there is a strong implication that their planned operations were against Hydra, but they would have come across non-Hydra enemy forces at other times given the territory they were operating in.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Fighting the Taliban does not have the same moral high ground as Nazis / HYDRA. Walker knows his medals are a sham. He probably called an air strike on a crowded market to kill one guy.

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

During the heat of battling a giant alien force, Steve took the time to introduce himself as Steve Rogers to a sentient teenage tree, and I will love him forever for that. 

Groot: "I am Grroooot."

Steve: "I am...Steve Rogers."

Me: 💗😅💗

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Groot: "I am Grroooot."

Steve: "I am...Steve Rogers."

Me: 💗😅💗

He's just so earnest.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

It was so cute. And Bucky had a talking raccoon that wanted his gun and his arm. 

"So we're 100 year old supersoilders. Whoop de-doo, Basil. Raccoons and trees talk now."

That just made me think, how you not believe in wizards, Bucky, when you've had freaky alien people overrunning you and a raccoon shaking you down. Smh.

  • Laugh 8

Share this post


Link to post

Man, now I wish we’d gotten another scene of Bucky and Rocket interacting, or Steve meeting the rest of the Guardians!

Share this post


Link to post

Not believing in wizards when Dr. Strange and Wong and a passel of other magic users were RIGHT THERE is a weird thing to say.

I mean... they're two very distinct class types in D&D 5e but there's still BOTH of them. And... no one knows that Wanda does actual magic at this point.

I want that scene of Wanda revealing that she's a witch to those two and Sam just going 'HA!!! I told you!!' And Bucky being stubborn and saying 'A witch isn't a wizard!' and Wanda just going 'My imaginary children are more grown up than you.'

  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post

I really want Bucky and Sam to meet Deadpool and his X-Family. Especially since Deadpool thinks Cable has a Winter Soldier arm, and would probably point out that Bucky has way too much backstory in common with his archnemisis Wolvie.

I think Sam would find them all really confusing and upsetting and Bucky would probably just kill Deadpool a bunch of times in interesting ways for entertainment while everyone else stood around watching and eating snacks. It would be amazing.

Edited by Lebanna
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

I want Deadpool to meet Thor so he can crush all over him. Repeatedly.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Thor called Dr. Strange a wizard... But Asgardians think raccoons are rabbits so Bucky wins....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Are Bucky and Sam running around Europe around the same time as Mysterio fighting fake elementals?

  • Like 1
  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post

11 hours ago, Gin and Tonic said:

It also ignores that the only reason Bucky was in Wakanda in the first place is because T’Challa was straight up trying to murder him. Like, complete first degree murder of an innocent man. 

 

No, Bucky was in Wakanda so he could heal after the events in Civil War. T'Challa took him in and promised Steve that Bucky would be safe in Wakanda while being cryogenically frozen again-something Bucky wanted since the triggers were still in his head. And in Infinity War, he said it was time to wake the White Wolf or something like that.

It is true that T'Challa wanted to kill Bucky, because he thought Bucky had murdered his father, and tried to do so. But that didn't take place in Wakanda.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
26 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, Bucky was in Wakanda so he could heal after the events in Civil War.

 

30 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It also ignores that the only reason Bucky was in Wakanda in the first place is because T’Challa was straight up trying to murder him. Like, complete first degree murder of an innocent man. 

 

I could be wrong but, I think the OP was saying that T'Challa only granted Bucky help (in Wakanda) because he spent most of the movie (Civil War) trying to murder Bucky; not arrest, not put on trial, just straight up revenge kill Bucky for a crime Bucky didn't even commit.

So yeah, to that point the OP was right, IMO. T'Challa probably wouldn't have been so helpful if he didn't feel some sense of guilt/shame/sorrow for his actions in Civil War.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
38 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

T'Challa took him in and promised Steve that Bucky would be safe in Wakanda while being cryogenically frozen again-something Bucky wanted since the triggers were still in his head.

38 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But that didn't take place in Wakanda

I know it didn’t take place in Wakanda. I mean part of the reason T’Challa extended the the invitation at the end of Civil War is because of T’Challa’s involvement in Civil War where he was trying to murder an innocent Bucky. 

Edited by Gin and Tonic
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Gin and Tonic said:

I know it didn’t take place in Wakanda. I mean part of the reason T’Challa extended the the invitation at the end of Civil War is because of T’Challa’s involvement in Civil War where he was trying to murder an innocent Bucky. 

Sorry. Your original comment in the episode thread didn't make that clear.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Man, now I wish we’d gotten another scene of Bucky and Rocket interacting, or Steve meeting the rest of the Guardians!

Bucky and Nebula interacting - two stoic, socially awkward cyborgs together.

Honestly, Marvel are missing a trick by not filming a load of shorts to air on Disney+, filling in missing scenes and having different characters just interact for a few minutes.

Rocket and Banner talking science, Mantis bugging (no pun intended) Rhodey or Sam with questions about Earth, Quill being educated on the last thirty years of Earth history by Strange and Peter. Just a few minutes long, something that could be covered in an hour or so of filming.

A book club where they're all reading Lord of the Rings, and Peter keeps talking about how "those old movies are so much better than the books."

15 hours ago, Lebanna said:

I really want Bucky and Sam to meet Deadpool and his X-Family. Especially since Deadpool thinks Cable has a Winter Soldier arm, and would probably point out that Bucky has way too much backstory in common with his archnemisis Wolvie.

I think Sam would find them all really confusing and upsetting and Bucky would probably just kill Deadpool a bunch of times in interesting ways for entertainment while everyone else stood around watching and eating snacks. It would be amazing.

I think Bucky would really vibe with Negasonic Teenage Warhead. Probably not so much with Yukio. Or with Wade.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/14/2021 at 2:21 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

You are assuming that T'Challa and Wakanda gave a vibranium arm that is worth conservatively $100 million (in addition to lodging, hospitality and deprogramming) "freely"? That no one told Bucky "This document acknowledges our right to shut this arm down and repo it whenever we want, OK? Sign here" doesn't make it any less fair for them to do so. It was a gift but one that had hidden conditions. Would Bucky have accepted it if he knew? Probably. Is it shitty that the Wakandans didn't tell him? Sure. But they are totally justified in having contingency plans.

It is not established exactly how the U.S. got the vibranium for Cap's shield. But it could have been from fair trade with Wakanda, it could have been from other sources (as far as I know, Wakanda just has the overwhelming majority of the world's vibranium, but some exists outside it), or it could be more that Klaue was the first to pull off a heist of the size he did (a quarter ton I want to say?) but there were smaller heists before then including the amount of the shield.

It's possible that given Wakandan science is magic that the prosthetic is self-cleaning.

 

The previous arm wasn't removable, and attached through the skin directly into the shoulder. So I think it being unnecessary to clean like a real prosthetic is more about super-serum magic than Wakandan science.

Bucky didn't need to be given a Vibrananium arm, he needed a replacement arm. I think that when a custom prosthetic is made for a person, that should be a free and complete gift, and if we were talking about a prosthetic of steel or carbon fibre that point probably not be disputed. I think Shuri is a generous and kind person who chose to make the arm of vibranium because that was the best possible version prosthetic she could make, and that she did not put conditions on that gift. Because Vibranium has cultural significance to Wakandans, there are probably Wakandans who see it differenty.

 

I would suspect that Howard / the US gov bought their stock of Vibranium from dealers, but that all or some of that stock was probably stolen from Wakanda at an earlier point, which would give Wakanda a claim to ownership of the shield (ignoring that this is an alternative timeline shield, because it is easiest to assume it had the same provenance on that timeline). But because Howard made the metal into a shield, and Steve made the shield into a symbol, this particular lot of metal has lost its significance to Wakanda because the symbolism of the Shield is not of direct interest to them.

 

As this is the mystery thread, I have a totally unrelated question:

Will we ever learn what jobs Steve and Bucky had a civilians before the war? They must have been working for 6-8 years before enlisting, depending on the age Americans left school back then (my grandma left school at 15 to work in a factory during the war, but I'm British and she was a Lancashire lass).

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, MochaJay said:

Will we ever learn what jobs Steve and Bucky had a civilians before the war? They must have been working for 6-8 years before enlisting

According to the unofficial but pretty well sourced MCU wiki, Steve spent like a year in art school after HS before trying to enlist. He was rejected, but Bucky wasn't. It's not clear what Steve did to earn a living between 1938 and 1943, though.

Share this post


Link to post

Apparently the surprise cameo in episode 5 of TFATWS was supposed to debut in Black Widow first. This Vanity Fair article also talks about the comic book origins of this character and speculates as to whether or not and how this character might appear again in future Marvel projects...

Marvel Has Big Plans for That Surprise Falcon and the Winter Soldier Cameo
BY JOANNA ROBINSON  APRIL 16, 2021
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/04/julia-louis-dreyfus-marvel-villain-character-contessa-valentina-allegra-de-fontaine  


More Marvel Easter eggs...

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Episode 5: Marvel and MCU Easter Eggs
By Mike Cecchini, Kirsten Howard, Gavin Jasper, Jim Dandy    April 16, 2021
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-episode-5-marvel-and-mcu-easter-eggs/ 

Edited by tv echo
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size