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S01.E04: We Interrupt This Program

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I kind of had a feeling going in that this was going to be the episode that shook things up, and, well, it certainly didn't disappoint!

Not surprised that Geraldine was actually an adult version of Monica Rambeau this entire time, but the reveal was a great one, and Teyonah Parris was fantastic.  Can't wait to see more of Monica here and in future films.  The entire cold opening was perfect as well.  While it is clearly great that The Snap (sorry, the "Blip" ain't happening, folks!") was reversed after Endgame, I can only imagine the turmoil that was caused with so many people suddenly coming back to life, and everyone discovering the changes.  Sad that Maria passed away during that time.  Hopefully Carol was able to say her good-byes.  Possible scene for Captain Marvel 2?

Agent Woo!  With the magic tricks!  Scott would be so proud!  And DOCTOR Darcy Lewis has crashed the party.  Great seeing both of them here.  What has been great about the MCU is that they have so many supporting characters with a lot of potential throughout their films, and thanks to these shows, this is a great way to bring them back and hopefully expand upon them.  I can't wait to see who else might get their chance on Disney+ (Of course, my personal vote will probably be the Adventures of Korg and Miek: The Quest For More Pamphlets!)

So, it looks like the town in the sitcom is the actual real town of Westview, New Jersey, and it is trapped in some kind of bubble: possibly by Wanda or maybe someone else (or maybe a mixture?)  It also sounds like it could be expanding, which is.... troublesome.  Also, the actual "cast" of the sitcom are actual town folks.  But I did notice that neither Dottie or Agnes have been identified yet.  Hmm...

Undead Vision was surprisingly creepy.

Ironically not much of either Wanda or Vision this go around, but the brief moments still left a mark.  Elizabeth Olsen really can make Wanda down right terrifying, when someone gets on her bad side.  And Paul Bettany did a good job at showing how even Vision was kind of getting nervous at the end.

Voodoo Child was a great song to play things off.

Great episode.  I want more!

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11 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

I get that Wanda is clearly grieving, but if she really is behind Westview, then she has to be stopped.

I was thinking about it, that Wanda is partly (at least, since someone might be manipulating her) doing this because she finally cracked and was grieving her losses to the point that she could no longer function. She seemed okay if sad at Tony's funeral, but if its true that the original Avengers are no longer in play, her support system is gone. Really, that it's taken her this long to break is the surprise, since aside from possibly Thor she's the one who keeps having things taken away from her; her parents, her brother, her country, her freedom, and finally Vision (twice). She will need to be stopped even if this isn't just her doing, but I don't know what the solution is when the whole reason the Accords as presented didn't work is because it deemed all enhanced people as dangerous, and prior to this Wanda really hasn't been. (Fine, Ultron, but even there both Tony and Bruce were just as culpable, and no one even blamed Banner, just Stark.)

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

wonder if they are setting up some friction between Monica the new head of SWORD, the exchange between them where the head SWORD head said something about how the universe is full of threats and Monica added "and allies" and he kind of gave her a "yeah right sure" look, it seems like that could be setting some kind of conflict. What exactly does "sentient weapon" mean exactly? Because calling someone a "sentient weapon" doesn't really sound great, especially after the registration clusterfuck. 

I guess the SWORD boss didn't watch Endgame because a whole lot of aliens helped out.

And if they ever want to do an MCU drama they should just focus on the people dealing with the aftermath of coming back.  The world really should just fall into chaos just because you suddenly have double the drain on resources after 5 years of cutting back.  Can't just flick a switch and suddenly produce double the food.

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7 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

That was my first thought too!!! "Please tell me Carol was there since Monica couldn't be."

If Fury got a galactic pager, hopefully Maria did too.

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So Monica got taken during the snap, poor Maria she lost Carol and her daughter to sudden disappearances. Then she died of cancer. At least she founded SWORD. I hope Carol was able to spare some time to be with her friend.

I liked the callback to Lt. Trouble. I'm one that liked Captain Marvel. I also like Darcy. She was the best part of Thor 2. I'm glad she was the one to figure everything out. It's fun to see characters from the different movies come together, it makes it feel more like a connected universe.

It is interesting that Dottie and Agnes were not named yet. Are they being meta with that too, with the recognizable actors being the guilty ones. Lol well I suppose Emma Caulfield is only recognizable if you've seen Buffy. 

I don't know why people feel they have to had watched other movies and shows. I feel they give enough background for anyone to know the characters. The only thing anyone is missing not seeing those is the enjoyment of seeing a character you recognize. Other than that it doesn't matter at all. 

So Wanda is in control, is she using Visions husk? I do think she is being "helped" by others to keep her in her reality. But she really took over a town and it's people. 

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1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

I get that Wanda is clearly grieving, but if she really is behind Westview, then she has to be stopped.  Looks like all the citizens are trapped in her simulation, and it's even worse if they're all victims of the snap.  Puts Mrs. Hart's begging Wanda to "stop it" in a whole new light.

 

If she is even unknowingly trapping people and "casting" them in the sitcom and if the radiation levels are growing then she does have to be stopped, but some how I don't think SWORDs approach (guns, tanks and focus on her as a "Sentient Weapon") will be the answer, which is where Hayward will come in as the "asshole" commander. I do think there is someone else at work as well but we're going to get a an episode or two of Get Wanda and maybe even Wanda V Vision before others are revealed.

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9 hours ago, Featherhat said:

People in this franchise literally fall through sky portal, get thrown through walls, off buildings, are in space without any life support, beat each other up with powers/equipment etc and survive with nothing but an aesthetically pleasing scratch. Unless you're Rhodey and are the CW sacrifical lamb. Granted most of them have suits on at the time but I doubt she'll have any lasting damage. 

None of those things happened to people who don't have superpowers or are in a protective suit to explain the lack of injury.

I think Hayward is either supposed to be the well-meaning but mislead one, or it turns out that he is actually not as well-meaning as he seems to be. I mean, it is not like he acted like an a-hole so far, provided that it was really Maria who left the orders for restored people.

I wonder if at one point down the line we will encounter a character who is p... that the snap was reversed, because they were actually better off without someone who got snapped.

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I liked seeing a more intense version of people returning after the snap. Is that where they are going with Banner put everyone on planes and other vehicles in the hospital instead of where they were. 

Also why did Wanda rename all the people?

I suppose if Maria were still alive, someone would've had to tell her, that her daughter disappeared again. 

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I doubt Wanda is going to end up being "the" villain. Being used by the villain, sure, but not the main villain. Why? Mainly because I am pretty sure the MCU has other plans for her.

I also like the fact that although Vision is zombie Vision, Wanda's recreation of him clearly knows that something is very wrong but can't break the program. Or, to add another layer, somewhere deep in the back of her head even Wanda knows this isn't real and is using what she remembers about Vision to be the voice of creeping doubt and rationalism/realism - hence the scene an episode or so back when Vision is trying to tell her something is wrong and she just "rewinds" the scene and edits that out.

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Cosmic microwave background radiation is electromagnetic radiation from the Big Bang, but outside of its origin it's not particularly special. Then again, this is the universe (or the comics one is) where gamma radiation gives super powers rather than just lethal injuries.

seen on a chyron at the SWORD lobby, three weeks after the blip: "the Pope to speak at 6 pm EST in front of the world" -- wouldn't that be like 3 am at the Vatican???

Also, Monica didn't just show up at SWORD unannounced. She said "I have a meeting." You'd think the acting director would have told the security guard at the desk that the first unblipped employee -- and the daughter of the division's founder -- would be coming in today. Maybe even told security to reactivate her keycard.

Edited by arc
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1 hour ago, swanpride said:

None of those things happened to people who don't have superpowers or are in a protective suit to explain the lack of injury.

The fact that Hawkeye and Black Widow were still alive after facing armies of Chitauri, killer robots and Thanos minions despite no superpowers and no special suits speaks for itself.

In this specific context, we can fanwank that Wanda's expulsion hex cushioned the blow of going through all the layers of stuff and all the distance at that speed. 

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55 minutes ago, swanpride said:

None of those things happened to people who don't have superpowers or are in a protective suit to explain the lack of injury.

I was watching Avengers today and Widow who doesn't have powers or a special suit ends the battle with a small cut on her lip, despite taking a beating. In some movies Tony goes through a lot without the suit on. The Iron Man suits have also been incredibly damaged and he's been fine. I really get where you're coming from but whilst Monica's report will mobilize SWORD against her, it won't be because she paralysed her.

35 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I liked seeing a more intense version of people returning after the snap. Is that where they are going with Banner put everyone on planes and other vehicles in the hospital instead of where they were. 

Also why did Wanda rename all the people?

I suppose if Maria were still alive, someone would've had to tell her, that her daughter disappeared again. 

I hope Banner put them all somewhere safe. That bothered me in Endgame. Imagine coming back only to instantly die horribly because the plane you were on is no longer in the air or a building has been built/demolished. And that's not even to deal with the anguish of those who's loved ones died because of the Snap but only 2nd hand (like their pilot was snapped and their plane crashed or their surgeon was snapped and they bled out). 

I guess the Harts were renamed so they could participate in the wacky hijinks of misunderstood name abbreviation. I'm not sure she's assigning people their names, they just get bland and sitcom appropriate names when they "join". She didn't know Geraldine was Monica at first. And Ahbilash would be less likely than Norm in a 50s suburban sitcom setting. 

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2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

And if they ever want to do an MCU drama they should just focus on the people dealing with the aftermath of coming back.  The world really should just fall into chaos just because you suddenly have double the drain on resources after 5 years of cutting back.  Can't just flick a switch and suddenly produce double the food.

IA.  There's the happier and more lighthearted stuff like Far From Home, but it's silly to act like everything is back to normal after the snap.  What Thanos did wasn't a "blip," it was a major cataclysmic event that lasted 5 years.  It would be interesting to see how people try to move on once they came back.  Monica's story is one of many tragic tales that happened.  Unfortunately, Feige and TPTB would rather focus on the multiverse effects of the snap rather than the local effects that happened on Earth.  Even one of the shorts (they don't do these much anymore) would have been good to expound on some of these changes.  

29 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Also why did Wanda rename all the people?

Maybe to help them forget their real identities?  Also to sound more decade appropriate.  I don't hear names like "Norm" and "Dottie" anymore.

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If I were Agent Franklin, I would at least have asked that they send in an RC car or quadcopter drone through the sewers before accepting the mission to go in. The outside camp hadn't even established that Monica was still alive at that point!

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Wow. Zombie Vision. Visionbie? I was not expecting that. He kinda knows something is up.

I had always assumed the colors were because Wanda was becoming more ‘aware.’ A Pleasantview situation. It makes sense that the citizens of Westview are becoming aware, but its curious that Vision is too.

I love Captain Marvel, so I love that Lt Trouble is right in this mix. I dislike again that its told that a woman built something substantial but don’t get to see it happening. Obviously I know not this show but it bums me out that we’ll never get to see Carter building SHIELD or Maria building SWORD (maybe we’ll get lucky with the Captain Marvel sequel). I want to see women doing things, not just told about it and expected to be in awe of it.

I’m interested in the censoring. And the show’s blips. I’m also now shipping Woo and Darcy. I really liked their dynamic.

I wonder how the shows will be from here on out-all Wanda and Vision? Cuts back and forth?

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33 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In this specific context, we can fanwank that Wanda's expulsion hex cushioned the blow of going through all the layers of stuff and all the distance at that speed. 

I agree unless an injury is the plan for how she gets her powers. 

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49 minutes ago, arc said:

Also, Monica didn't just show up at SWORD unannounced. She said "I have a meeting." You'd think the acting director would have told the security guard at the desk that the first unblipped employee -- and the daughter of the division's founder -- would be coming in today. Maybe even told security to reactivate her keycard.

I didn't even think of that, that Monica's keycard didn't work and the security guard didn't know who she was. Even if it had been five years and her identification was no longer valid in the computerized system, Hayward must have known she'd returned to this plane of existence since he cleared the whole matter up in a few seconds. He even tells her once they're alone that her mother probably would have wanted her to have a hand in naming the new director, but for the interim he was a placeholder. If there's going to be friction later, he could try to keep her out of the loop somewhat, especially if he's one of the "all enhanced individuals are threats" types.

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I'm sure Monica's fine. Wanda could've just killed her. She just got kicked out of the the reality after being mind controlled. So she's going to be a little dazed. 

I'm thinking we'll be seeing a little of both Wandavison and the real world now. Also since Wanda is losing more of her grip on her made up reality. 

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Minor thing, but it throws me that the show keeps pronouncing Monica’s surname as “Rambo” rather than “Ram-boh”.

Edited by SeanC
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1 hour ago, SnoGirl said:

It makes sense that the citizens of Westview are becoming aware, but its curious that Vision is too.

Vision IS Wanda... Like others have mentioned, he represents part of Wanda struggling to reach the real world

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5 hours ago, Amethyst said:

And it confirms that they only felt the passing of 20 minutes, rather than 5 years.

Not even that.  For Monica it was only that long because she was napping by her Mom's bedside. For most it's going to be an instant. A Heartbeat. 

5 minutes ago, paigow said:

Vision IS Wanda... Like others have mentioned, he represents part of Wanda struggling to reach the real world

Indeed.  Think of the Freudian version of personality and even that simple model may explain it. 

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5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 While it is clearly great that The Snap (sorry, the "Blip" ain't happening, folks!") 

But the Snap and the blip have somewhat different meanings I think. The snap is the event where Thanos snaps his fingers and half of all life disappears. The blip is the 5 year period where all those people were gone.

5 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Really, that it's taken her this long to break is the surprise, since aside from possibly Thor she's the one who keeps having things taken away from her; her parents, her brother, her country, her freedom, and finally Vision (twice). 

The crazy thing is that stopping this whole thing will probably mean taking people taken away from her (fake vision and fake babies).

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^ This! I'm really curious to see how this plays out--Wanda doesn't want to face the reality where she's alone and the people she loves aren't coming back. A show of force on SWORD's side will only end badly and cause her further trauma. I'm curious to see what causes her to make the choice to let this fantasy go.

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9 hours ago, Kromm said:

So I now think it's possible that Herb was going to say "dead" rather than "trapped". More in the Speculation Topic about that. 

I will admit though that conflicts with what I think happened with the Eastview cops, who's vanish from the location still seems weird (one person speculated the cop car turned around but then why the sudden reverse camera angle?) 

Go back to that scene.  Don't just watch it.  Listen to it.  You can hear the police car approach and then pass Monica and Jimmy going back down the road away from Westview.  AKA going East.  Toward Eastview.  Where they now think that they work.

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Kat Dennings just doesn't do it for me as Darcy. I really don't buy her as this super smart doctor of astrophysics. Of course, I had the same problem with Natalie Portman's portrayal of Jane in the first two Thor movies. Other than that, I enjoyed the episode. But out of the four I've seen so far, last weeks is still my favorite for now.  

Elizabeth Olsen has been doing an amazing job -- she's probably a lock at this point for all the awards. It's good to see that she's being allowed to showcase her acting chops. I feel like she was absolutely wasted in the movies. 

Edited by ShellsandCheese
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15 minutes ago, Kate47 said:

^ This! I'm really curious to see how this plays out--Wanda doesn't want to face the reality where she's alone and the people she loves aren't coming back. A show of force on SWORD's side will only end badly and cause her further trauma. I'm curious to see what causes her to make the choice to let this fantasy go.

Honestly, I hope somebody figures out how to resurrect Vision for real. Even if Wanda lets go of the fantasy where nothing bad happened ever, there's no reason there wouldn't be the chance to bring him back. If no one's noticed by now, I'm very biased in her favor, but just on principle I'd like to see as much of Thanos' ugliness be undone as possible. It's bad enough Maria Rambeau died without her daughter being there to say goodbye.

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It would have been funny if some of the returned patients ended in the same bed with the patients that were already in the hospital.

Where are the children in Westview?

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It was the sitcom gimmick that hooked me on watching this show, but I obviously knew from moment one that things would get dark and twisty and tragic, and this ep sure took that hard turn (and was quite riveting).  The unsettling setup of Jimmy and Monica outside of Westview with those cops was great for building the dread that permeated the ep.  Kat Dennings was thoroughly enjoyable and everything else was suitably creepy. 

My very least favorite thing about the MCU is the whole snap business:  I can never suspend my disbelief about the fact that half the population gone instantly and back instantly years later would cause massive, massive economic devastation, probably some extensive nuclear and environmental disasters and incredible psychological tolls.  I know superheroes are flying around in this world, and I can’t explain why this one point ties me up in knots.  So it was even harder for me to think that just 3 weeks after Monica learns her mother is dead and that she has lost 5 years, that she would be back at work and ready to go.  But, even with all that said, it a tribute to the ep that it was done as well as I could imagine it being done.  I wonder if it is important that Monica be on the outs with SWORD, or if her being dusted and coming back was just a gimmick to get her to take a seemingly uninteresting case.

 

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10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Back in Captain Marvel, Monica was like 9, so no reason for you to have recognized her. Her mom, Maria, was more prominently featured.

 

10 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

She was a child in Captain Marvel so there's really no need to watch it again.  I will admit that one is not one of my favorites.  I think if you wanted to see more of Maria you could revisit but their parts are small.  

. . . 

I'm not sure how fun this show is for people who aren't invested in the movies.  The little stuff like Woo returning or Darcy showing up won't really mean anything.  To each their own.  I do think the show is strong enough to be interesting enough on its own.

Yes, very true, she was the daughter in that movie...  I vaguely remember her now - thanks!  I did love seeing a scene with people who evaporated coming back; that was really cool how they did that.

I would say I'm invested in the movies, but maybe not the entire universe as a whole, and certainly not as much as many other fans.  I hadn't seen a whole MCU movie until this past summer, when I needed something to do during unemployment-pandemic-quarantining...  I binged watched all of them (except Edward Norton's Hulk movie) in MCU chronological order (so Captain America first, then Captain Marvel, then Iron Man, etc.).  Um, yeah... I became obsessed.  Some are obviously much better than others, so some I really loved.  I can watch Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Infinity War, Endgame, and any Baby Groot scene over and over without tiring.  It's a few of the earlier ones, like Captain Marvel (even though it was made recently) and Thor 2 that I don't care for; so I do still forget a fair amount of details.  I also never saw any of the TV shows or read any of the comics.

This show is good, because I like Wanda and Vision, and it's a trip - so I'm along for the ride.  I still have no idea what's going on, and love it. 🙂

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Honestly, I hope somebody figures out how to resurrect Vision for real. Even if Wanda lets go of the fantasy where nothing bad happened ever, there's no reason there wouldn't be the chance to bring him back. If no one's noticed by now, I'm very biased in her favor, but just on principle I'd like to see as much of Thanos' ugliness be undone as possible. It's bad enough Maria Rambeau died without her daughter being there to say goodbye.

Wasn't Vision a "robot" (for lack of a better word) created by Tony Stark in the first place?  I was also thinking that he could be recreated.  I never truly understood how the Infinity Stone played a role in bringing him to life when he was already "alive" when Tony entrusted it to him.  Maybe he wasn't and I'm misremembering... I'll have to go back and watch it again.

6 hours ago, WildPlum said:

I doubt Wanda is going to end up being "the" villain. Being used by the villain, sure, but not the main villain. Why? Mainly because I am pretty sure the MCU has other plans for her.

If she's a villain, I agree that she's being used or manipulated.  Wanda already started out as a villain, and then became a good guy with the Avengers.  I doubt that she'd go back to being a villain again on her own accord.  The last time we saw her was the end of Endgame, and she still had a good relationship with everyone else; I think her last scene was with Hawkeye, right?  They seemed close, like good friends.  

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27 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Wasn't Vision a "robot" (for lack of a better word) created by Tony Stark in the first place?  I was also thinking that he could be recreated.  I never truly understood how the Infinity Stone played a role in bringing him to life when he was already "alive" when Tony entrusted it to him.  Maybe he wasn't and I'm misremembering... I'll have to go back and watch it again.

Ultron created Vision’s body (for himself) and added the mind stone. Tony and Bruce uploaded Jarvis. He wasn’t “alive” until Thor hit him with lightning. 

Edited by Dani
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7 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

If she's a villain, I agree that she's being used or manipulated.  Wanda already started out as a villain, and then became a good guy with the Avengers.  I doubt that she'd go back to being a villain again on her own accord.  The last time we saw her was the end of Endgame, and she still had a good relationship with everyone else; I think her last scene was with Hawkeye, right?  They seemed close, like good friends.  

The worst villains are the ones who believe themselves to be heroes.  In her own mind, Wanda thinks of herself as a hero.  She's made a good place, a happy place for herself, Vision, their children and her Westview friends and neighbors.  Tossing out Monica wasn't a terrifying display of power against an innocent person.  It was Wanda protecting the world, her new world, against an evil interloper.

This would be easier if Wanda was "evil."  If she was prancing around going "Mu-Hu-Ha=Ha!  I am the God-Empress of Westview, nothing can challenge my power!"  But she isn't.  She's still, in a messed-up way, being a superhero with a secret identity.  Mostly she's Wanda, the nice housewife who was secretly an Avenger.  But when the happiness of Westview is disturbed by outsiders who threaten its (brainwashed) tranquility, then Wanda Maximoff will use her power to protect it - even from being questioned by Vision.

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While "Voodoo Child" is doubtless more recognizable to the average viewer, I  feel that "Gypsy Eyes" would have been a more suitable selection.

Edited by Cthulhudrew

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1 minute ago, johntfs said:

This would be easier if Wanda was "evil."  If she was prancing around going "Mu-Hu-Ha=Ha!  I am the God-Empress of Westview, nothing can challenge my power!"  But she isn't.  She's still, in a messed-up way, being a superhero with a secret identity.  Mostly she's Wanda, the nice housewife who was secretly an Avenger.  But when the happiness of Westview is disturbed by outsiders who threaten its (brainwashed) tranquility, then Wanda Maximoff will use her power to protect it - even from being questioned by Vision.

It would be easier, but you're right, she's not evil. Messed up, damaged and unstable? Yes, yes, and mostly yes, but as was noted upthread she was in a great deal of pain in her first appearance and had nowhere to put it and no resources to get the help she needed to deal with it. Now, it's probably even worse, since there was a point where she and Vision tentatively discussed the possibility of never returning to the Avenger fold, to simply continue their lives together without the whole superheroing thing. Then, just like almost everyone else she's really been close to, he was killed. What she has now is a facsimile of the Vision she loved, and I think she even knows that sometimes. Notice how quick she was to avert her gaze from the sight of him being a zombie, pretty much, even though he was speaking to her as if everything was normal.

Yes, she's wrong. Yes, she's doing something she shouldn't. Again. But she's also tired of hurting, and you can see that too. It would be easier to just say she's a monster who enjoys wielding her considerable power over others, that she flung Monica through the invisible fence around Westview to hurt her or because she displeased her, but that wasn't why she did it. The fake life she's created is probably the only thing keeping her from fully losing it, and when you consider how many other characters in this fandom have done much worse for less reason, or at least done the wrong things for the right reason, Wanda protecting herself from her very human anguish makes it more complicated than "She's evil!" When you remember that in this franchise, actually killing people can (should?) be fairly quickly forgiven if the killer was brainwashed, Wanda's desperation to shield herself from further hurt is a lot more complicated than her just being a bad person.

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19 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

While "Voodoo Child" is doubtless more recognizable to the average viewer, I  feel that "Gypsy Eyes" would have been a more suitable selection.

Why? Vision was literally a Zombie. Which are traditionally related to Voodoo. 

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1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

My very least favorite thing about the MCU is the whole snap business:  I can never suspend my disbelief about the fact that half the population gone instantly and back instantly years later would cause massive, massive economic devastation, probably some extensive nuclear and environmental disasters and incredible psychological tolls. 

Among so many other things- such as were raised by this episode, with people reappearing in the same places they disappeared from. We didn't see anyone reappearing in the same place as existing people (and merging a la some crazy Cronenbergian body-horror movie), although we did see Monica pass through several people in-transit. What happened to the people who reappear in places that no longer exist, such as a building that was destroyed (and perhaps even rebuilt) in the five year interim?

Then there are the more existential issues you raise. To me, the idea of Endgame and the restoration of all the "snapped" people was just one of the most short-sighted and selfish moves that the Avengers could have possibly made. Sure, there were probably many successful and heartfelt reunions that came out of it, but so many tragedies and reopened traumas as well. 

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17 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

It would be easier, but you're right, she's not evil. Messed up, damaged and unstable? Yes, yes, and mostly yes, but as was noted upthread she was in a great deal of pain in her first appearance and had nowhere to put it and no resources to get the help she needed to deal with it. Now, it's probably even worse, since there was a point where she and Vision tentatively discussed the possibility of never returning to the Avenger fold, to simply continue their lives together without the whole superheroing thing. Then, just like almost everyone else she's really been close to, he was killed. What she has now is a facsimile of the Vision she loved, and I think she even knows that sometimes. Notice how quick she was to avert her gaze from the sight of him being a zombie, pretty much, even though he was speaking to her as if everything was normal.

Yes, she's wrong. Yes, she's doing something she shouldn't. Again. But she's also tired of hurting, and you can see that too. It would be easier to just say she's a monster who enjoys wielding her considerable power over others, that she flung Monica through the invisible fence around Westview to hurt her or because she displeased her, but that wasn't why she did it. The fake life she's created is probably the only thing keeping her from fully losing it, and when you consider how many other characters in this fandom have done much worse for less reason, or at least done the wrong things for the right reason, Wanda protecting herself from her very human anguish makes it more complicated than "She's evil!" When you remember that in this franchise, actually killing people can (should?) be fairly quickly forgiven if the killer was brainwashed, Wanda's desperation to shield herself from further hurt is a lot more complicated than her just being a bad person.

One can do CLEAR evil without overtly acting like a "bad person". But you have to examine her deeds.  If these neighbors are actually here against their will she's enslaving them. There's literally almost nothing more evil one can do. 

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5 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Why? Vision was literally a Zombie. Which are traditionally related to Voodoo. 

I was thinking because Wanda was looking at him when the refrain began, and the Scarlet Witch (at least in the comics) was raised by gypsies.

Plus the lyrics, "well I realize, that I've been hypnotized; I love your gypsy eyes" (and the Vision's doubts and concerns literally faded away when she looked at him.)

Edit: And frankly, the Voodoo Child lyrics really have no relevance beyond the titular title. I love that song as much as anyone, but if Marvel would have solicited my advice... which they never do for some reason. 😆

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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Great episode!

I was so glad to see the show finally address the blip in a meaningful way. Yeah, there was a small indication of it in Spider-Man: Far From Home, but it was mostly played for laughs. This showed the confusion, addressed that the blip's victims thought they were gone for about 20 minutes, not five years and most importantly, through Monica, showed the real-world consequences of losing five years of one's life. Sad.

Dr Lewis! So, obviously Darcy wasn't snapped and she used her time very well.

Speaking of Darcy, she explains to Jimmy Woo that the radiation she's picking up dates back to the Big Bang. 
In Infinity War, Wong explains, "The Big Bang sends six elemental crystals hurtling across the virgin universe."  We're definitely talking about energy from the Infinity Stones. 

Edited by ProudMary · Reason: Spelling error.
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17 minutes ago, Kromm said:

One can do CLEAR evil without overtly acting like a "bad person". But you have to examine her deeds.  If these neighbors are actually here against their will she's enslaving them. There's literally almost nothing more evil one can do. 

I'll be more specific, because I think this needs underlining. When you consider the general reaction to a character like Loki, who is about ten times worse than Wanda and yet remains incredibly popular, 'examining her deeds' is almost moot. Loki's considered complicated too, and to some extent justified because Odin was a shitty father and he did neglect him in favor of Thor. But Loki consistently took out his issues on Thor instead of Odin, either because he felt justified in doing it or because he didn't want to fight with his old man face to face. Choose one, you'll probably be right. Fine, look at what she's doing, but unlike Loki she's not acting out because she's 'growing up in the shade' of someone else's greatness, and unlike Tony Stark she didn't have the financial wherewithal to see a therapist once her parents were killed. I expect she'd be about a ton more well-adjusted by now if she'd been able to get help when she really needed it as a kid, but that's not what happened and so here we are.

I'm not saying she's right, I'm saying I understand, especially if it turns out that Agnes or some unknown party is helping Wanda along with what she's doing. As powerful as Wanda is, she's not omniscient, or she'd have been able to predict Monica's arrival. As was also noted, an armed response from SWORD isn't going to help things, so I'm wondering if they'll be calling in one of the remaining Avengers to try talking her down. She can be reasoned with, or else she'd never have agreed with the plan in Civil War that landed her in the Raft.

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14 hours ago, ProudMary said:

This showed the confusion, addressed that the blip's victims thought they were gone for about 20 minutes, not five years

Monica estimated 20 minutes simply because she was napping at her mother's bedside and woke up post blip. Someone asleep for the night might have estimated 8 hours.  Someone awake thought it little more than an instant. 

14 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Dr Lewis! So, obviously Darcy wasn't snapped and she used her time very well.

I agree her not being snapped is the only way her career progression makes sense. Remember that she wasn't even a student of the field she's a doctor in when we last saw her. Political Science to Astrophysics is a big change. 

My understanding is that the writers originally had other Marvel characters in mind and were told they were unavailable. And alternatives were suggested by Marvel Studios. So some shoehorning had to be done. I mean as amusing a character as Darcy is, her previous use didn't make her an obvious co-star here. Not without change.  Even Jimmy Woo was a tad shoehorned, since there was really no need for the FBI to be in this story at all.  But it could be done by making this a multi agency thing instead of just SWORD. And as interesting as what they wound up doing with Monica was, I bet originally it could have been anyone from Fury to Maria Hill to a character named Abigail Brand, from the comics. 

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1 hour ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Among so many other things- such as were raised by this episode, with people reappearing in the same places they disappeared from. We didn't see anyone reappearing in the same place as existing people (and merging a la some crazy Cronenbergian body-horror movie), although we did see Monica pass through several people in-transit. What happened to the people who reappear in places that no longer exist, such as a building that was destroyed (and perhaps even rebuilt) in the five year interim?

Then there are the more existential issues you raise. To me, the idea of Endgame and the restoration of all the "snapped" people was just one of the most short-sighted and selfish moves that the Avengers could have possibly made. Sure, there were probably many successful and heartfelt reunions that came out of it, but so many tragedies and reopened traumas as well. 

One thing to remember about the Infinity Stones is that assuming you can survive and channel their power, they aren't malevolent genies or monkey's paws that twist the wording of your wish into something awful.  You get the letter and spirit of what you want.  Bruce Banner Hulk wanted everyone who had been Snapped away to be safely returned.  So they were.  People aboard planes that were flying during the Snap ended up safely on the ground.  Even if the pilot was Snapped and the plane crashed, the pilot would return safely as would anyone else who'd been aboard the plane when Snapped.  Those who died in the plane crash would still be dead, obviously.  Nobody's going to appear inside other people.  There might be a few tragedies (somebody gets returned to the home they were Snapped in only to get shot as a burglar by the home's new owners), but not as a direct result of being returned (appearing 30,000 feet in the air where the plane would have been and then falling to their deaths).

One thing this episode did was put a very different spin on "Geraldine."  I recall speculation that "Geraldine" was a SWORD agent sent into the TV show to get close to Wanda and she got caught up in the show's reality.  We now know that isn't true.  Monica/Geraldine didn't go into the town because SWORD got involved and sent her in.  First Monica got pulled into the town and then SWORD got involved to try to get her back out.  So, the person whose agenda made Geraldine into Wanda's best friend in the show wasn't Monica/Geraldine.  It was Wanda.  Apparently when we watch the show we just see one episode per decade.  When SWORD is watching, they apparently see multiple episodes, whole seasons worth within a given decade (Darcy's "washes dishes once an episode" comment).

When Geraldine first appears, she seems like she's an "extra" reading a magazine.  Then she shows up at Dottie's meeting and likes Wanda's pants.  In the next episode "Geraldine" has been upgraded in the cast to be Wanda's sassy best friend.  Wanda even gives her the role of helping her deliver the baby.  The only reason for that to occur is that Wanda Maximoff liked Monica/Geraldine.  I think there was something about Monica that was different from the rest of Westview and Wanda could sense that.  But it wasn't that Monica was a SWORD agent.  The thing that was different about Monica was that Monica didn't hate and fear Wanda at her deepest level and the rest of the people in Westview do.  Whatever the "script" makes them say and do, they're terrified by what Wanda has done to them.  Monica was perhaps puzzled by it, but she didn't hate Wanda for it.  I think Wanda is so desperate for some kind of genuine human connection that she picked the SWORD agent who'd been sucked into the town to be her best friend because the agent didn't despise her, which is both understandable and incredibly sad.

Edited by johntfs
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So now we know this takes place just over 3 weeks after Endgame and months before Spider-Man Far From Home. 

To Wanda, Vision's death is still very fresh. If that is Vision's actual body I wonder where she got it from. Did they bury him in Wakanda? Or did Tony bring him back after Infinity War? Might not even matter since we don't know if Vision is real or imagined yet.

Anyway I loved the episode. I like "the others" example of how this episode felt. 

Only nitpick is that in 2023 no one would be using a drone helicopter as a recon device. They only did it because there isn't really a 1950's toy that looks like a quad drone to have it turn into.

13 hours ago, Kromm said:

I agree her not being snapped is the only way her career progression makes sense. Remember that she wasn't even a student of the field she's a doctor in when we last saw her. Political Science to Astrophysics is a big change. 

I agree not snapped. She was doing pretty well as Jane's intern in Thor 2. Even hired her own intern. That was 10 years ago in this timeline. Plenty of time to advance especially with their connections to Thor and what happened in Dark World. I like that they brought her back for this. 

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18 minutes ago, lynxfx said:

Only nitpick is that in 2023 no one would be using a drone helicopter as a recon device. They only did it because there isn't really a 1950's toy that looks like a quad drone to have it turn into.

I would have accepted a modern quadcopter drone turned into a 60’s ish toy helicopter, but oh well.

hey, I just realized: the heli drone was sent in a whole real world day before Darcy arrived. And Darcy ended up watching the 1950s episode first. But the helicopter drone was only discovered by Wanda in the 1960s episode, which wasn’t even the first 1960s episode the SWORD camp watched. There was one earlier where Monica as Geraldine appeared as an extra.

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So inanimate objects like clothes and pendants can be expelled from Westview and retain their sitcom form.

How about synthezoids?

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Good question….

 

Also, I just noticed, because previously I was too concerned about Monica getting hurt, but she literally broke through the "fourth wall".

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2 hours ago, tkc said:

So inanimate objects like clothes and pendants can be expelled from Westview and retain their sitcom form.

How about synthezoids?

He didn’t even fully maintain his sitcom form inside Westview! (BTW, in ep 3, when he comes in from the front yard there’s a sound effect as he removes his human disguise. In ep 4 when the same moment happens there’s the same sound effect, who knows why.)

It’s interesting that Monica’s reference to Ultron wasn’t edited out. The show censor might be slipping?

things the censor let through to the outside world:

  • the helicopter
  • the mention of Ultron

things that definitely got cut:

  • Dottie’s injury
  • Monica’s ejection from the house and town and the magical cleanup

things that probably got cut, but we don’t know for sure:

  • Agent Franklin’s emergence from the manhole, which Wanda rewound and undid
  • Vision’s questioning reality, which just glitched backwards a few seconds
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6 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Then there are the more existential issues you raise. To me, the idea of Endgame and the restoration of all the "snapped" people was just one of the most short-sighted and selfish moves that the Avengers could have possibly made. Sure, there were probably many successful and heartfelt reunions that came out of it, but so many tragedies and reopened traumas as well. 

I have this same issue. Married people, where one partner was snapped, the remaining one has to deal with the grief, then in that 5 years, maybe they find someone new. Then the original returns...

What about politics? Take Wakanda, for example. Ignoring the real life implications of Chadwick, but T'Chala was snapped away. Presumably Wakanda gained a new King (or Queen). T'Chala returns. Who is now the legal ruler? 
So many questions... 😄 

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1 minute ago, Captain Stable said:

What about politics? Take Wakanda, for example. Ignoring the real life implications of Chadwick, but T'Chala was snapped away. Presumably Wakanda gained a new King (or Queen). T'Chala returns. Who is now the legal ruler? 
So many questions... 😄 

Shuri was also snapped... so maybe Mom took over. After defeating Thanos, Mom got thrown over the waterfall...

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12 minutes ago, paigow said:

Shuri was also snapped... so maybe Mom took over. After defeating Thanos, Mom got thrown over the waterfall...

I was using Wakanda was a MCU implication example.
Let's take the UK. The Queen is snapped away. Charles becomes King. Queen then returns. Is Charles just meant to hand it back over?
 

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