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S02.E02: Smolder to Life

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An exchange is made between the two trains, but a far greater revelation might be just over the horizon.

Airing Monday, February 1, 2021.

 

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20 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

So Light's hand was mangled to permanently make the Wilford hand gesture.

Yes, that was absolutely sickening to realize.

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So is Alex suicidal, hence the bleeding at the end or is it Bess? Is that the reason for the PSA at the end?

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6 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

So is Alex suicidal, hence the bleeding at the end or is it Bess? Is that the reason for the PSA at the end?

Pretty sure that was about Kevin's very heavily pushed "suicide" in the bathtub. Jesus, that was awful. 

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3 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Pretty sure that was about Kevin's very heavily pushed "suicide" in the bathtub. Jesus, that was awful. 

That was murder though. Not very good of the show to push a psa like that for something that was coerced.  Clearly people on Big Alice are  all  loony tunes. I’m still wondering how they survived on a train that never moved until now? 

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11 hours ago, rtms77 said:

So is Alex suicidal, hence the bleeding at the end or is it Bess?

I thought Wilford wanted her to stab Layton, but she gripped it too hard when her Mom explained the plan.

Good episode.  Dealing with the potential of a slowly warming planet opens up definite plot possibilities.

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Um . . . are both ends of the train moving forward? When they showed Alex in the engine room of Big Alice (while Wilford killed Kevin in the bathtub), her end of the train was clearly moving forward. Yet when they showed Melanie and Javi in the Snowpiercer engine room when they launched the weather balloon, their end of the train was moving forward. I rewound and watched twice to be sure. Both of these things cannot be true. 

Alex has a terrible case of vocal fry. It's something I find really triggering so I can hardly stand to listen to her speak.

Why did Zarah want to kill Josie? Is is just because she's afraid Layton will leave her for Josie? 

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Um . . . are both ends of the train moving forward? When they showed Alex in the engine room of Big Alice (while Wilford killed Kevin in the bathtub), her end of the train was clearly moving forward. Yet when they showed Melanie and Javi in the Snowpiercer engine room when they launched the weather balloon, their end of the train was moving forward. I rewound and watched twice to be sure. Both of these things cannot be true. 

Pretty sure she was in the end of the Big Alice that is connected to the tail of Snowpiercer. So she was moving forward, and was looking out over the tops of the Snowpiercer cars in front of her.

Edited by redpencil
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14 hours ago, rtms77 said:

So is Alex suicidal, hence the bleeding at the end or is it Bess? Is that the reason for the PSA at the end?

We got the PSA/warning at the beginning, which did of course mean that I spent the first half of the episode wondering which of the main S1 characters were going to try something.

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Pretty sure she was in the end of the Big Alice that is connected to the tail of Snowpiercer. So she was moving forward, and was looking out over the tops of the Snowpiercer cars in front of her.

Nope. No cars in her windshield. Just open landscape. Unless the windshield is a view screen and she was actually looking out the front of Snowpiercer through a camera hookup. There was definitely not a train in front of her. And where she was sitting could not be the part of Big Alice connected to Snow Piercer. We've seen where the two trains join up in the prisoner exchange.

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15 hours ago, rtms77 said:

That was murder though. Not very good of the show to push a psa like that for something that was coerced.  Clearly people on Big Alice are  all  loony tunes. I’m still wondering how they survived on a train that never moved until now? 

I still post on tumblr, and the tumblr kids are all about "trigger warnings" anytime anything remotely traumatic gets posted. I suppose seeing someone slit their wrist could be triggering for someone who is contemplating suicide.

Did anyone else sense a little bit of attraction between Melanie and Layton after the climate meeting? I really hope the show doesn't go there, especially since Layton is in a love triangle now that Josie is alive. We don't need a love square(?)

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Nope. No cars in her windshield. Just open landscape. Unless the windshield is a view screen and she was actually looking out the front of Snowpiercer through a camera hookup. There was definitely not a train in front of her. And where she was sitting could not be the part of Big Alice connected to Snow Piercer. We've seen where the two trains join up in the prisoner exchange.

According to wiki, Big Alice runs in reverse, meaning the engine car pushes the rest of the cars, whereas Snowpiercer pulls its cars. There was a scene where Alex was in Wilfred's quarters, which I'm assuming is also the engine car, and she goes over to the controls and looks out the window. She could see cars in front and below her, which I am assuming was the Big Alice cars they were pushing. I'm sorry I don't remember a scene where she looked out and didn't see anything.

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Poor innocent Kevin. He just wanted a few wings.  He was all embarrassed to be naked in front of his boss and even more uncomfortable when the boss got in the tub as well.  But that’s nothing compared to being forced to kill himself.  At least he didn’t tell Wilford that he told them the crew numbers 100.  The crappy thing is that the trains agreed to work together somewhat, so it’s not like whatever he told them wouldn’t have been found out eventually.

Can’t stand Alex  Her voice grates and I hate her hair.  Also, she doesn’t even remotely look anything like Jennifer Connelly.  Did they ever mention her father?  What happened to him?

Please tell me that I am not the only one who was blown away when Audrey and Dara (Zara?) were in the same room speaking with each other.  I had completely forgotten there was an Audrey and when she put the wig on they looked like they could be twins.   Now I recall last season having a hard time distinguishing between these two as well as Josie.

And how on earth is Josie still alive?  I thought she was frozen completely.  But yet, no appearance of Jinju?  Did Jinju die in battle?  If not, where is she.

I truly couldn’t care less about Lilah Junior and Oswan.  Waste of space.

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7 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

According to wiki, Big Alice runs in reverse, meaning the engine car pushes the rest of the cars, whereas Snowpiercer pulls its cars. There was a scene where Alex was in Wilfred's quarters, which I'm assuming is also the engine car, and she goes over to the controls and looks out the window. She could see cars in front and below her, which I am assuming was the Big Alice cars they were pushing. I'm sorry I don't remember a scene where she looked out and didn't see anything.

There is an animated blueprint showing exactly what you describe in the opening credits of every episode. Seen here at the 8 second mark.

 

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

But that’s nothing compared to being forced to kill himself

I'm still not at all clear on why he did this to a loyal, devoted employee. For fun? 

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

had completely forgotten there was an Audrey and when she put the wig on they looked like they could be twins.   Now I recall last season having a hard time distinguishing between these two as well as Josie.

I literally can't remember who Josie was, and can't be bothered to go back to remind myself. I find most of these characters aren't resonating with me. I find very few of them relatable or even likeable. 

Same goes for Alex who seems as crabby, hostile and unreadable as most of them. 

I was very annoyed when Jennifer Connelly said no to the Spam. You're always starving and locked in a train cell! Eat for once! For real, I find her terribly thin. Realistic for the character, of course, and I've known lots of women that thin IRL who were very healthy, but the camera's constant focus on her sharp collarbones and facial features makes me feel uneasy. It's so weird to look back at her in Labyrinth and realize it's the same person. Now she reminds me more of Linda Hamilton in later Terminator movies. Very wiry and zero sense of humour. 

That's the one change I'd really like to see. More humour, and not of the cruel, Mr Wilford variety. 

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This was the first episode that I truly didn't like. The murder of Kevin was beyond disgusting - what were the writers thinking? There are other ways, I'm sure, to show us viewers how awful Wilford is, but forcing someone to kill themselves is really beyond the pale. Having Wilford in the tub while it happened was bizarre, creepy, and truly off-putting. It didn't make me think, "Oooooh, Wilford is sooo bad!" Rather, it just disgusted me and made me angry at the writers for trying to "shock" us. It was sensationalistic and downright gross. 

I can't stand Alex. Awful character. 

I, too, had forgotten who Josie was, and even now, I can't remember what the actress looked like, or any of the interaction she had with Andre. Nice going, Zara - sure, try to kill someone who's practically dead anyway - yeah, real tough of you.

Overall, I thought this was an awful episode. There wasn't a moment where I felt invested in any of the characters (except, perhaps, the newly-minted train detective whose name escapes me). Hoping next week is better, because this was really not good.

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2 hours ago, Biggie B said:

This was the first episode that I truly didn't like. The murder of Kevin was beyond disgusting - what were the writers thinking? There are other ways, I'm sure, to show us viewers how awful Wilford is, but forcing someone to kill themselves is really beyond the pale. Having Wilford in the tub while it happened was bizarre, creepy, and truly off-putting. It didn't make me think, "Oooooh, Wilford is sooo bad!" Rather, it just disgusted me and made me angry at the writers for trying to "shock" us. It was sensationalistic and downright gross. 

I can't stand Alex. Awful character. 

I, too, had forgotten who Josie was, and even now, I can't remember what the actress looked like, or any of the interaction she had with Andre. Nice going, Zara - sure, try to kill someone who's practically dead anyway - yeah, real tough of you.

Overall, I thought this was an awful episode. There wasn't a moment where I felt invested in any of the characters (except, perhaps, the newly-minted train detective whose name escapes me). Hoping next week is better, because this was really not good.

 

5 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I'm still not at all clear on why he did this to a loyal, devoted employee. For fun? 

I literally can't remember who Josie was, and can't be bothered to go back to remind myself. I find most of these characters aren't resonating with me. I find very few of them relatable or even likeable. 

I don’t understand why he would make Kevin kill himself.  Kevin was loyal and devoted as you said and it’s been years since he saw Wilford and he was happy to be reunited with him.  I don’t understand why they had to be in the tub together, to make it even more uncomfortable?  To conserve the precious hot water?  Because there was something sadistic in bathing in the blood of his vanquished foe?  As you said, it was truly disturbing.  Especially the part with Wilford’s dog lapping up the bloody water.

Is Wilford now going to parade all 100 crew members into his room, to gawk at Kevin’s dead body?  Is he going to tell them that he killed Kevin and this is what happens to those who share secrets?  Or is he going to tell everyone Kevin killed himself out of guilt at being disloyal?  Or is he just not going to say anything at all?   Because nothing was announced, I truly don’t understand the point of the death, other than “because he can”.


Josie is the Tailee who was the Tail Mom of Miles, the kid who was brought up to be trained in Engineering.   She traded places with someone who worked in sanitation to obtain some kind of information.   She and Layton got together horizontally and it looked like she was going to be pregnant but then she tried to kill Melanie and instead was herself presumably frozen to death in the office. But apparently is alive.  And probably still pregnant.  
 

Now Zara is all jelly that Josie is alive because she’s afraid that Layton is going to abandon her and their baby and run back to Josie.  Which, I’m sure she’s right.

I fully agree that there are very few characters to root for.  I can’t stand Ruth and her pompous self-importance.  She is beyond giddy that Wilford is alive and back.  She received and sends the “communiques” so because of that she thinks everyone should part like the Red Sea for her because she would be delayed by 1.5 seconds by having to step around people instead of making them clear a path?  Stuff it, Ruth.  I can’t stand Till either.   Or Layton.  Wilford is right, the guy now considers himself “King” Layton and gets to live in a sumptuous first class cabin when really what is he in charge of?  Melanie is the Chief Engineer, without her they wouldn’t be alive.

In addition to Jinju, I am wondering where Miles is.  And I want to see more of The Last Australian and Strong Boy.

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40 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Josie is the Tailee who was the Tail Mom of Miles, the kid who was brought up to be trained in Engineering.   She traded places with someone who worked in sanitation to obtain some kind of information.   She and Layton got together horizontally and it looked like she was going to be pregnant but then she tried to kill Melanie and instead was herself presumably frozen to death in the office. But apparently is alive.  And probably still pregnant.

Thanks for this refresher re: Josie. I just completely and utterly forgot about her and all that she did last season. D'oh!

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2 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

Thanks for this refresher re: Josie. I just completely and utterly forgot about her and all that she did last season. D'oh!

Josie switched places with the former female tailie who was helping Lights when Bess went to visit her after Lights' was attacked this episode. Josie and the former tailie do share a strong resemblance, and I find it interesting that she was in this episode as well.

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I too am wondering where Miles and Jinju are. I had to look up if Jinju was alive.

So what's going to happen when Josie finds out Zara is pregnant? And when Josie tells Layton about what Melanie did, he will renew his war with her. 

I would love to see the years that lead up to them all getting on the train. Was it a Walking Dead like scenario with everyone killing each other off to get on the train, since Melanie kicked Wilford to the curb. But the train wouldn't be the way it is, meaning Wilford would have taken everything for himself and all the others he probably would have had hacked up to eat them when he ate all the food.

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5 hours ago, Biggie B said:

There wasn't a moment where I felt invested in any of the characters (except, perhaps, the newly-minted train detective whose name escapes me).

I was relieved to see that she finally changed out of the blood covered shirt.

I don’t see Wilford as much as I see Sean Bean chewing up the scenery, which I find amusing. 

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2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don’t understand why he would make Kevin kill himself.

Kevin lied to him about eating, then he confessed which made Wilford lose trust. 

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

r.  I can’t stand Ruth and her pompous self-importance.

But Alison Wright is so good at it. 

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Miles, the kid who was brought up to be trained in Engineering.  

We’ve never seen him again, have we?

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

.  Wilford is right, the guy now considers himself “King” Layton and gets to live in a sumptuous first class cabin when really what is he in charge of?  

Snowpiercer has no king. Snowpiercer needs no king. 

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

Now Zara is all jelly that Josie is alive because she’s afraid that Layton is going to abandon her and their baby and run back to Josie.  Which, I’m sure she’s right.

Thanks for the Josie info. I suspected it might be her, but couldn't tell by looking at her. Is she in Big Alice? Why are they using all the resources on this random person? 

Has Zara's pregnancy been confirmed in any way? Could she be faking? 

I'm realizing I've forgotten about 50% of the people and events from last season. Probably not a good sign. I'd like to see Miles again though. 

Finally, after finally watching the movie, I REALLY hope they're planning a completely different trajectory for this series. Has there been any info about this? 

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Can someone help me with why Alex backed off of going after Layton?  I get that it has to do with Melanie going to the research station, but the reasoning wasn't clear to me.  And I would have expected Wilford to be angry with her for not attacking Layton, but that didn't seem to be his mindset at the end of the epidsode.

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59 minutes ago, alalaxmom said:

Can someone help me with why Alex backed off of going after Layton?  I get that it has to do with Melanie going to the research station, but the reasoning wasn't clear to me.  And I would have expected Wilford to be angry with her for not attacking Layton, but that didn't seem to be his mindset at the end of the epidsode.

Wilford quietly said "No" to Alex when he stood up to leave so he called off the assassination. 

 

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I can’t stand shows with bratty teenagers. If she doesn’t get comeuppance quickly I’ll have to FF any scene she’s in. Actually that goes for both Alex and LJ. 

Edited by Haleth
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2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Has Zara's pregnancy been confirmed in any way? Could she be faking? 

I vaguely recall her showing someone an ultrasound. Or I might be confusing that with another show.

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8 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I vaguely recall her showing someone an ultrasound. Or I might be confusing that with another show.

You sound like me, when it comes to this show 😁

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9 hours ago, Haleth said:

I can’t stand shows with bratty teenagers. If she doesn’t get comeuppance quickly I’ll have to FF any scene she’s in. Actually that goes for both Alex and LJ. 

Both do. LJ needs the shit kicked out of her. And Alex needs it too. Her whole shit about the snow, I just wanted to snack her. Just because she's big shit on Big Alice doesn't mean she knows shit about shit. She's only that way because Mr douche canoe has let her be that way and filled her head with dumb shit. Her mother kept the train running for 7 years because of her background and I doubt Mr douche canoe could have done that, just because he's too full of himself and greedy.

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10 hours ago, cdnalor said:

Wilford quietly said "No" to Alex when he stood up to leave so he called off the assassination. 

 

Thanks, so I guess she decide to be dramatic and cut herself instead? I still see her coming around. She clearly knows Wilford is dangerous, hence blocking out what was happening with Kevin with the music and headphones. 

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On 2/2/2021 at 6:02 PM, iMonrey said:

Nope. No cars in her windshield. Just open landscape. Unless the windshield is a view screen and she was actually looking out the front of Snowpiercer through a camera hookup. There was definitely not a train in front of her. And where she was sitting could not be the part of Big Alice connected to Snow Piercer. We've seen where the two trains join up in the prisoner exchange.

I thought Big Alice is so much taller that the only way you can see the cars is when the view is directly down the middle of the track.

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On 2/2/2021 at 3:33 AM, rtms77 said:

So is Alex suicidal, hence the bleeding at the end or is it Bess? Is that the reason for the PSA at the end?

She smuggled a razorblade onto Snowpiercer, presumably to attack Layton. Then at the last minute she decided not to proceed and concealed the blade in her hand, cutting herself. So, homicidal but not suicidal.

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16 hours ago, cdnalor said:

Wilford quietly said "No" to Alex when he stood up to leave so he called off the assassination. 

 

Ah! Thanks.  I thought he said "Now" and then she didn't obey.  

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11 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Thanks, so I guess she decide to be dramatic and cut herself instead? I still see her coming around. She clearly knows Wilford is dangerous, hence blocking out what was happening with Kevin with the music and headphones. 

I think when her mom announced she'd be leaving her, again, she got upset and had an unconscious reaction and tightened her fist. Ergo ouchie. I think her reaction shows that she cares about her mom, even though she tries to act like she doesn't. At some point I think she'll have to decide between her mom and Wilford, and will choose her mom.

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The only question is when Ruth will betray Snowpiercer to Wilford? Will it be a quick betrayal or will it be covert and dragged out over most of the season?

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I thought Big Alice is so much taller that the only way you can see the cars is when the view is directly down the middle of the track.

OK I actually went back and re-watched this, and you're right, the windshield Alex is looking out of is over the tail end of Snowpiercer, meaning the engine room of Big Alice is pushing the tail of Snowpiercer. (It's hard to tell at first because the view is mostly blurry, and what I mistook for the tracks was apparently the top of the Snowpiercer tail cars).

Which raises the question of where the heck the two trains are connected - it must mean the junction where the prisoners were traded is directly beneath Alex's engine room. Which, I guess is technically possible. The camera pulls back to an exterior shot of the two trains as Kevin bleeds out in the tub and the dog drinks from the water (yuck) showing a side view of the Big Alice engine, and it appears tall enough for that juncture to be underneath the engine room meaning the engine car, at least, is a double decker. Seems strange though. Puts the engine in a very vulnerable position.

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Which raises the question of where the heck the two trains are connected - it must mean the junction where the prisoners were traded is directly beneath Alex's engine room. 

No, the engine and Wilford apartment are at the tail of Big Alice.  The engine is in the back and pushing the whole train. You can see it in two episodes. The first when Alex tries to disconnect the trains you can see the explosion in front of them and in the second  when Kevin is in the tub you see  Alex looking out over all the cars lower than them. Basically the engine of Snowpiercer is car 1 and Big Alice engine is car 1034. 

Big_Alice3.jpg

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On 2/2/2021 at 6:20 PM, pezgirl7 said:

Layton is in a love triangle now that Josie is alive.

100% Team Josie here. I don't like Zarah. I hate love triangles but this one is easy. Actually ...

On 2/2/2021 at 2:55 PM, iMonrey said:

Why did Zarah want to kill Josie? Is is just because she's afraid Layton will leave her for Josie? 

I think so. I don't think Layton and Josie have reconciled - they're not together, he's just invested in the birth of his child. I don't think Layton would go tearing down the hall like that to see Zarah. I don't think it's a love triangle so much as it is Zarah hoping Layton will come back to her now that the baby is coming and Josie is (was!) out of the way.

Zarah said she has a purpose now and she doesn't want Josie to take that from her, but really, the fact that she's having a baby is what gives her purpose and that doesn't change if Layton is with her or not (and Layton isn't with her now). It's still a huge deal that a baby is being born on Snowpiercer.

On 2/4/2021 at 2:30 AM, toodywoody said:

LJ needs the shit kicked out of her.

SHE REALLY DOES. I think that every time I see her. Like, some people just need their asses kicked and she's one such person. I can't stand her. I once read a tweet that said "You ever meet someone and think 'wow, no one has ever told you to shut the fuck up?'" and I think about that when she's on screen. Just throw her off the train, damn.

I had to look away from the cutting and the maimed hand (and I agree with @CeeBeeGee - that was a horrifying realization).

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Is it just me or have we actually not seen any of the children on Snowpiercer this season? Layton has Miles yet has not mentioned him, has not seen him, has not even moved him into the first class quarters he now has . He’s more interested in the new baby coming. 
 

There was a whole classroom of kids learning, and there are tailles kids. Given that a very violent revolution happened I would think kids would be a concern.  
 

Correction I think we did see one Tailie kid.

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What happened to all the kids in the drawers? Not to mention all the others that were in there? Are they keeping in the drawers? Are they thawing them out? Are they all getting the gangrene? What happened to the drug trade that was going on? Or has all this been dropped because The Stark has arrived?

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I'd like to remind everyone on both trains that, if indeed the Earth is experiencing some warming,  the effect on the solid ice in the Bering Sea and the South Atlantic where Snowpiercer regularly crosses will be to create a track that approaches the rides at one of the former amusement parks that dotted said Earth.  Good luck!

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Light getting her hand mutilated to look like the Wilford hand signal was so freaking creepy, so now the guy has not only his cult of personality on his own train, including lackeys willing to kill themselves just because he asked them to, but also has people on Snowpiercer. Because there isn't enough shit going down. 

I am actually really surprised that Josie is alive, and maybe a bit surprised that Zarah told Layton that she was alive. I didn't think she would actually murder her just to get her out of the way so that she and Layton can get back together, but I did think she would just leave Josie and not tell anyone that she was still alive. 

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On 2/2/2021 at 11:37 PM, blackwing said:

Can’t stand Alex  Her voice grates and I hate her hair.  Also, she doesn’t even remotely look anything like Jennifer Connelly.

She looks like she could be Ruth Negga's daughter.

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On 2/5/2021 at 5:05 PM, Empress1 said:

I don't think Layton would go tearing down the hall like that to see Zarah.

Why DID Layton go tearing down the hall?  I completely missed that.  How did he realize that the unidentified patient was Josie?

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:49 AM, rtms77 said:

Thanks, so I guess she decide to be dramatic and cut herself instead? I still see her coming around. She clearly knows Wilford is dangerous, hence blocking out what was happening with Kevin with the music and headphones. 

I got a distinct vibe that this was somewhat routine for her: "Wilford's going to do something horrible and sadistic again, time to go shut the door and put on the soothing music and the headphones."

I appreciate everyone's explanations here of what happened with Alex and the razor blade. For a while I was wondering if she was purposefully going to be leaving a trail of blood from the first class dining car back to Big Alice. Guess I gave her a little too much credit.

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On 2/6/2021 at 2:15 PM, rtms77 said:

Is it just me or have we actually not seen any of the children on Snowpiercer this season? Layton has Miles yet has not mentioned him, has not seen him, has not even moved him into the first class quarters he now has . He’s more interested in the new baby coming. 
 

There was a whole classroom of kids learning, and there are tailles kids. Given that a very violent revolution happened I would think kids would be a concern.  
 

Correction I think we did see one Tailie kid.

When was this season filmed? Maybe some of the kids couldn't be there for filming because of coronavirus restrictions. The kids in the classroom would be extras, so maybe it was more trouble than it was worth for them to have to isolate for filming.

Winnie has been around.

Not sure about Miles. Maybe the role has been reduced because the part of Engineering Whizz-Kid is being played by Alex this season.

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