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Who, What, When, Where?!: Miscellaneous Celebrity News 2.0

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15 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Of course they do.

I still don't get the non binary, gender fluid thing.

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1 hour ago, Kromm said:

The Telegraph cracks me up with how consistently awful they are about everything.  I'm certainly not YouTube subscribed to them, but the algorithm aggressively pushes their content, especially their Community posts...  

They're consistently outrageous opinions labeled as news.  For example, on Joe Rogan seeing some well deserved and long overdue consequences for his stupid opinions, today they posted... 

IMG-20210519-134643.jpg

 

 

The Telegraph is just the Mail for people who think they're intellectuals. Full of hate and vitriol, constantly telling its readers to be angry and scared about anything that threatens the pre-War fantasy world that they would like to pretend still exists.

These newspapers, along with the Express and Sun, have been the UK's version of Fox News since before Fox News existed.

As for Joe Rogan, I don't know whether he's just a dumb meathead who has unwittingly become the figurehead for angry and mediocre white men, or whether he intentionally and actively embraced the position. Either way, I'm yet to see or hear him ever have anything of value to say..

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1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

Oh boo hoo.  If I have any contempt for straight white men it's because they deserve it.

We do. Not all of us. For example, my dad is a great person. But most of us.

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45 minutes ago, Nicmar said:

I still don't get the non binary, gender fluid thing.

I'm generally progressive, but even so am sometimes wary of declarations like this. I mean Demi Lovato is entitled to identify in any way desired. Nothing to do with me.  But this is someone who observationally has very much, in a pretty definitive way, seemed to strongly embrace a specific gender until very very recently (and recently, a new haircut was the main sign of any change). So this is quite an about-face.  It does nothing to me except slightly confuse me though, so... okay.  No biggie. I hope Demi is happy. 

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24 minutes ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Courtney Stodden also recently came out as non-binary. This one I have some doubt about because I suspect it's more about not wanting to be a woman, and that is not the same as being non-binary.

That's kind of what I meant with Demi. 

Does it hurt any of us to honor a request to identify however they want?  Not really. Do I truly believe either of them have fully considered what it means and aren't just hopping aboard a train that serves them for the time being?  Also not really. 

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41 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Does it hurt any of us to honor a request to identify however they want?  Not really. Do I truly believe either of them have fully considered what it means and aren't just hopping aboard a train that serves them for the time being?  Also not really. 

I hate thinking it, because identity is such an important thing, but it almost feels like a trend lately. Some don't seem that surprising but a few have left me wondering if they are just looking to belong to a group that are outside "the norm". But admittedly I don't truly understand what it would be like to identify my gender by anything other than if I produce eggs or sperm. The rest is all just societies forced definitions of male and female to me. 

In the end, I don't care (in that it isn't something I get worked up about) since they aren't hurting anyone, but I do dislike a single entity being called "them or they". That bit drives me nuts. They don't have split personalities, they are still just a singular entity so maybe we need a new pronoun. 

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Demi Lovato comes out as non-binary (pronouns they/them).

I was reading their interview in Entertainment Weekly just yesterday so this is not all that surprising. I haven't listened to the new album yet and I don't plan to watch the documentaries but I'm hoping they're in a good place, dumb stories about froyo aside. 

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I hate thinking it, because identity is such an important thing, but it almost feels like a trend lately. Some don't seem that surprising but a few have left me wondering if they are just looking to belong to a group that are outside "the norm". But admittedly I don't truly understand what it would be like to identify my gender by anything other than if I produce eggs or sperm. The rest is all just societies forced definitions of male and female to me. 

In the end, I don't care (in that it isn't something I get worked up about) since they aren't hurting anyone, but I do dislike a single entity being called "them or they". That bit drives me nuts. They don't have split personalities, they are still just a singular entity so maybe we need a new pronoun. 

Don't ask me to explain but I know enough to know that while nonbinary and genderfluid/gender non-conforming are used interchangeably (sometimes by the people who self-identify with those terms) one is meant to be more intrinsic and the other is more about gender performance. Some people feel like both or neither or a third gender. It's different for each individual. I'm getting used to they/them though personally, I find it easier when someone mixes she/they or he/they since you can write sentences that are less confusing in context. Xir, hir, etc. is a bit much for me but if anyone I actually talked to in person asked me to adhere to those pronouns, I would do my best to manage it. 

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2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

They don't have split personalities, they are still just a singular entity so maybe we need a new pronoun. 

If you are talking about a specific person you can always just use their name instead of using any specific pronoun. I write a lot of emails for work and especially with working from home and never actually meeting anyone in person I often find myself doing that when talking about someone whose first name is ambiguous.

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22 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

If you are talking about a specific person you can always just use their name instead of using any specific pronoun. I write a lot of emails for work and especially with working from home and never actually meeting anyone in person I often find myself doing that when talking about someone whose first name is ambiguous.

How ambiguous can the name Demi be, though? It may have been used a lot of times, but the only other one I can think of right now is Demi Moore, who is decidedly female. Unlike Elliot Page, Lovato doesn't seem to have begun going by a different name, just asked for different pronouns. I am confused.

On a similar but not identical note:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/idris-elba-luther-black-diversity-b1831278.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR25tvTVmkjMhZeTBPJhNrAEfZCzXo7GM8Uybz_psqQvrHoWnWKqYKSns9k#Echobox=1618409211


The article is from last month, and Elba was asked for comments, but I'm not sure if he responded. I'm really interested to see what he had to say if he did.

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5 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

How ambiguous can the name Demi be, though? It may have been used a lot of times, but the only other one I can think of right now is Demi Moore, who is decidedly female. Unlike Elliot Page, Lovato doesn't seem to have begun going by a different name, just asked for different pronouns. I am confused.

In Demi Levato's case it is not and I meant more along the lines of if someone doesn't like using they for a singular person they can just use that person's name instead.

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35 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

How ambiguous can the name Demi be, though? It may have been used a lot of times, but the only other one I can think of right now is Demi Moore, who is decidedly female. Unlike Elliot Page, Lovato doesn't seem to have begun going by a different name, just asked for different pronouns. I am confused.

Because some people are attached to their names and may choose to keep it. It’s also not as if there aren’t CIS gendered people who have names that are more traditionally associated with the opposite gender.

Also, for a number of people who come out as non-binary or trans they may implement the changes they make to their public lives in stages so it would not be uncommon at all for Demi to change their name eventually but it also wouldn’t be uncommon for them to keep it. 

Edited by biakbiak
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1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

How ambiguous can the name Demi be, though? It may have been used a lot of times, but the only other one I can think of right now is Demi Moore, who is decidedly female. Unlike Elliot Page, Lovato doesn't seem to have begun going by a different name, just asked for different pronouns. I am confused.

Names are much more ambiguous than we usually think and are becoming more so with each generation. At my job I mostly deal with middle aged and elderly white men and quickly realized I can’t make assumptions based on their name. This week alone I have dealt with a Carol, Lynn and Courtney who were all men. I know a male Jamie who dated a female Jamie 20+ years ago and a female Jaylyn who dated a male Jaylen (same pronunciation).

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I hate thinking it, because identity is such an important thing, but it almost feels like a trend lately. Some don't seem that surprising but a few have left me wondering if they are just looking to belong to a group that are outside "the norm". But admittedly I don't truly understand what it would be like to identify my gender by anything other than if I produce eggs or sperm. The rest is all just societies forced definitions of male and female to me. 

I think that’s normal when language and society expands and evolves. I’m sure some people are jumping on something trendy but for most it’s that they finally have the terms to explain what they’ve always known. 

Edited by Dani
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11 minutes ago, Dani said:

At my job I mostly deal with middle aged and elderly white men and quickly realized I can’t make assumptions based on their name. This week alone I have dealt with a Carol, Lynn and Courtney who were all men.

Some of that's actually pretty old school. 

Caroll O'Conner - born 1924.

It would be more unusual if your Carol used one L only, but not impossible. 

Carol Reed (a British film director) - born 1906.

Lynn Swann - born 1952.

Courtney B. Vance - born 1960.

 

Not to forget another similar example, Lindsey Graham - born 1955.

Edit - one more... 

Marion Robert Morrison, aka John Wayne - born 1907.

Edited by Kromm
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2 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Some of that's actually pretty old school. 

Caroll O'Conner - born 1924.

It would be more unusual if your Carol used one L only, but not impossible. 

Carol Reed (a British film director) - born 1906.

Lynn Swann - born 1952.

Courtney B. Vance - born 1960.

 

Not to forget another similar example, Lindsey Graham - born 1955.

Yeah, that’s my point. We tend to think of unisex names as a new trend when it’s been happening for generations. 

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Another example is the name Ashley. I know quite a few women with that name, but it was also a common name for men at one time. 

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14 minutes ago, Dani said:

Yeah, that’s my point. We tend to think of unisex names as a new trend when it’s been happening for generations. 

Johnny Cash wrote a song called "A Boy Named Sue".  A little research shows... 

https://www.babynameshub.com/boy-names/Susan.html

"Records indicate that 1,702 boys in the United States have been named Susan since 1880." 

 

Edit - Oh man, that site is FUN.  I also found. 

Records indicate that 171 boys in the United States have been named Gertrude since 1880.

Records indicate that 883 boys in the United States have been named Anna since 1880.

Records indicate that 111 boys in the United States have been named Agnes since 1880.

Now I'm just getting silly (although that's all true). 

Edited by Kromm
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And let's not forget that until the movie Splash came out in 1984, the name Madison was usually considered a surname and, if given as a name, almost exclusively as a boys' name (and it means 'Matthew's son'). However, since the mermaid made it her own, it's been a surprisingly trendy girls' name.

Well, as long as the famous individual with the surname Lovato finds peace, that's the important thing.

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2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

How ambiguous can the name Demi be, though?

Also, Demi’s birth name is Demetria. So Demi is a pretty ambiguous nickname for Demetria or Demetrius. 

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If only that had been taught in school rather than being drilled on subject-verb agreement. It’s hard to get past decades of educational norms, but I try.

We may be veering off topic but I think part of the bad grammar thing is all those other rules people ignore. Dangling modifiers, vague pronoun reference, pronoun-antecedent agreement, etc. If your sentences are clear, it shouldn't be confusing who "she" or "he" or "they" are in context. If it's confusing, you just explicitly say what the pronoun is referring to instead of using the pronoun. 

I have no patience for people who want a total breakdown of language just because they don't feel like using spell-check or they have anarchist leanings. You can very much respect someone's pronouns and lean even harder into proper grammar. 

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22 hours ago, Quof said:

Since a vagina is internal, one shouldn't put soap in it. 

...nor a candle....

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2 hours ago, aradia22 said:

We may be veering off topic but I think part of the bad grammar thing is all those other rules people ignore. Dangling modifiers, vague pronoun reference, pronoun-antecedent agreement, etc. If your sentences are clear, it shouldn't be confusing who "she" or "he" or "they" are in context. If it's confusing, you just explicitly say what the pronoun is referring to instead of using the pronoun. 

I have no patience for people who want a total breakdown of language just because they don't feel like using spell-check or they have anarchist leanings. You can very much respect someone's pronouns and lean even harder into proper grammar. 

Singular they is perfectly grammatically acceptable...and even if it wasn't, if you prioritize grammar over making a person feel valid,  then you're an ass.

This isn't directed at anyone specifically.  I've just seen way too many comments in general complaining about using they/them pronouns in the guise of standing up for proper grammar.  When in reality it's most likely the result of thinly veiled nb-phobia. You don't have to understand something to respect someone and how they identify. 

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6 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

How ambiguous can the name Demi be, though? It may have been used a lot of times, but the only other one I can think of right now is Demi Moore, who is decidedly female. Unlike Elliot Page, Lovato doesn't seem to have begun going by a different name, just asked for different pronouns. I am confused.

The Little Women books had a male character named Demi, short for Demi-John (as an alternate to John Junior).

5 hours ago, Dani said:

Names are much more ambiguous than we usually think and are becoming more so with each generation. At my job I mostly deal with middle aged and elderly white men and quickly realized I can’t make assumptions based on their name. This week alone I have dealt with a Carol, Lynn and Courtney who were all men. I know a male Jamie who dated a female Jamie 20+ years ago and a female Jaylyn who dated a male Jaylen (same pronunciation).

This. My mum had a great-uncle and aunt, a married couple, who were both named Marion (known within the family as The Marions). A lot of names that we now think of as female started out as male, from Ashley to Evelyn. Names are definitely more fluid than we think. Demi to me sounds ambiguous enough, but from what I understand, the gender association of names isn't such a big deal to non-binary folk.

Edited by Llywela
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2 hours ago, Proclone said:

Singular they is perfectly grammatically acceptable...and even if it wasn't, if you prioritize grammar over making a person feel valid,  then you're an ass.

This isn't directed at anyone specifically.  I've just seen way too many comments in general complaining about using they/them pronouns in the guise of standing up for proper grammar.  When in reality it's most likely the result of thinly veiled nb-phobia. You don't have to understand something to respect someone and how they identify. 

Since I'm the one who brought my confusion to the table, I am trying to understand. I kind of resent the implication that even asking a question on the subject leads to inferences of being 'phobic, especially since Lovato had that recent incident in a frozen yogurt shop. Yes, making them feel valid is important, but it does feel a bit like they're an attention-seeker who is using a very current issue to stay in the foreground. If that's the case, the questioners aren't the only ones being disrespectful.

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3 hours ago, Proclone said:

I've just seen way too many comments in general complaining about using they/them pronouns in the guise of standing up for proper grammar.  When in reality it's most likely the result of thinly veiled nb-phobia. You don't have to understand something to respect someone and how they identify. 

Probably.  But as much as I'm willing to do it, I will cynicaly note it's ensured people have to specifically remember extra information about Demi Lovato, and the net result of not doing so is going to be getting lectured (possibly not always by Demi, but by third parties). It might be different if we lived in a society with non-gendered language by default, but... we don't. 

Again, adding in Demi's seeming narcissism (manifesting in various things like thinking one's own opinion on Yogurt shop signage is important out of proportion, and making endless documentaries inviting praise for being so very brave), I don't feel totally off base in believing that in Demi's case, at least, having people have to remember something extra might be an ego boost. 

Edited by Kromm
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13 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

making them feel valid is important, but it does feel a bit like they're an attention-seeker who is using a very current issue to stay in the foreground. If that's the case, the questioners aren't the only ones being disrespectful.

I'm in a between place on this. I don't for a moment believe all people with these non-binary declarations are just attention seeking. But I DO think it's a situation inherently rife with opportunity for narcissistic people to use the phenomenon to garner attention.  It can be both things at once (typically legitimate, and yet sometimes used as a strategem, although I wouldn't go as far as saying mis-used). 

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23 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Since I'm the one who brought my confusion to the table, I am trying to understand. I kind of resent the implication that even asking a question on the subject leads to inferences of being 'phobic, especially since Lovato had that recent incident in a frozen yogurt shop. Yes, making them feel valid is important, but it does feel a bit like they're an attention-seeker who is using a very current issue to stay in the foreground. If that's the case, the questioners aren't the only ones being disrespectful.

 

19 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Probably.  But as much as I'm willing to do it, I will cyninicaly note it's ensured people have to specifically remember extra information about Demi Lovato, and the net result of not doing so is going to be getting lectured (possibly not always by Demi, but by third parties). It might be different if we lived in a society with non-gendered language by default, but... we don't. 

Again, adding in Demi's seeming narcism (manifesting in various things like thinking one's own opinion on Yogurt shop signage is important out of proportion, and making endless documentaries inviting praise for being so very brave), I don't feel totally off base in believing that in Demi's case, at least, having people have to remember something extra might be an ego boost. 

As I said, the comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. But it's fairly common to see comments to the effect of, "I don't care how someone identifies, but they can't be plural," or some variation all over the internet, anytime anyone from Sam Smith to someone not famous uses they/them pronouns.  And my point is that if you value grammar over a human's feelings, you're an asshole (ignoring that language is an ever evolving thing anyway).  And as I said I very much doubt these champions of grammar are usually sincere in their concern over the English language, they're NB-phobic and they try to hide it under that guise.

And I quite frankly don't know what Demi's motivations are for coming out, I would like to think they are sincere.  I do know that questioning whether it's sincere because they acted and dressed in typically feminine fashion is a slippery slope and gatekeeping who gets to identify certain ways isn't productive and can be actively detrimental to other non-binary and trans people who have not yet come out.  Like I said, you don't have to understand an identity to respect it.  I fully admit that I don't understand what it feels like to be non-binary, because I'm a cis woman.  But that doesn't mean I don't respect how others wish to be referred.  

And quite frankly if Demi wanted attention I can think of other ways besides coming out as non-binary, but even if it was just to get attention, the best solution is simply to respect how they choose to identify and move on without a lot of fuss.

Edited by Proclone
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2 hours ago, Kromm said:

Probably.  But as much as I'm willing to do it, I will cynicaly note it's ensured people have to specifically remember extra information about Demi Lovato, and the net result of not doing so is going to be getting lectured (possibly not always by Demi, but by third parties). It might be different if we lived in a society with non-gendered language by default, but... we don't. 

Again, adding in Demi's seeming narcissism (manifesting in various things like thinking one's own opinion on Yogurt shop signage is important out of proportion, and making endless documentaries inviting praise for being so very brave), I don't feel totally off base in believing that in Demi's case, at least, having people have to remember something extra might be an ego boost. 

It’s it really any more than remembering if someone is male or female? We learn the preferences of people we met all the time this is really no different other than it taking a little longer to adjust to any new term. Plus it’s perfectly acceptable to just call them Demi. It works in any and every sentence. 


I think it’s a complicated situation when we, understandably, try and evaluate how legitimate people new identity based on attention seeking past behavior. A lot of time destructive and unhealthy behavior is a direct result of being unable to openly identify oneself. 

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6 hours ago, Llywela said:

 

This. My mum had a great-uncle and aunt, a married couple, who were both named Marion (known within the family as The Marions).

I've always loved Evelyn Waugh and his wife Evelyn being called Hevelyn and Shevelyn by their friends to tell them apart. LOL 

Though it didn't make sense to me until I learned how Evelyn is pronounced in the UK! 

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Here;s where I come down on the "they/them" pronouns.   Mentally its going to bug because I had it drilled into my head that they/them is third person plural (I know, I know history, I am going with what I was taught).   To the person who uses those pronouns, "they/them" all day long in person in writing, referring to them to others.   It's their choice, it's their name, not mine.    

Now they're, their, and there  -- I will rant against all day long.   And my latest one "reigns" and "reins"  JOURNALISTS are screwing that one up.    Get a bloody dictionary people.   

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5 hours ago, Kromm said:

Because Courtney Stodden got brought up, apparently Chrissy Teigen is seeing some real world consequences for her previous behaviour in relation to Stodden... 

Chrissy Teigen Has Been Dropped By 3 Major Chains Over Those Tweets About Courtney Stodden

So glad to see there have been consequences (financial and reputation) to Chrissy's horrible verbiage.  I have felt for quite some time that Chrissy is an obnoxious mean girl.  Just as Chrissy has freedom to express her true self, businesses have the freedom to drop an affiliation with her.

Edited by MerBearHou
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Idris Elba did respond. He posted We must not pull ourselves backward, only push ourselves forward. IE  

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6 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

So glad to see there have been consequences (financial and reputation) to Chrissy's horrible verbiage.  I have felt for quite some time that Chrissy is an obnoxious mean girl.  

Other outlets like TMZ (and other sources that were posted on Twitter) that at least the Target and their parent company Macy’s decision to phase it out was made in December and had already started happening pre Courtney’s interview because Chrissy no longer wanted to be exclusive because she was making more money from other sources. But that interferes with Candace Owen’s narrative that she was personally responsible for these decisions. 

Edited by biakbiak
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6 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

So glad to see there have been consequences (financial and reputation) to Chrissy's horrible verbiage.  I have felt for quite some time that Chrissy is an obnoxious mean girl.  Just as Chrissy has freedom to express her true self, businesses have the freedom to drop an affiliation with her.

Honestly guys, I didn't want to be an ass but I was surprised when she received so much sympathy recently. 

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4 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Honestly guys, I didn't want to be an ass but I was surprised when she received so much sympathy recently. 

A bunch of people suggesting that you murdered your stillborn child because your at the head of a satanic child trafficking ring tends to do that.

Edited by biakbiak
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3 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Honestly guys, I didn't want to be an ass but I was surprised when she received so much sympathy recently. 

Yeah I actually was trying to find news coverage about how awful she had been on Twitter when we were talking about her on here a few weeks ago, and I couldn't find anything, so I didn't post about it. And I kept thinking "But she's been a bully--I remember she was!" Then the Stodden stuff resurfaced, but it isn't the only bullying she did online. 

It doesn't excuse the bullying she herself was subjected to, but it surprises me that all the coverage about it just seemed to disappear. 

Edited by Zella
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1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

A bunch of people suggesting that you murdered your stillborn child because your at the head of a satanic child trafficking ring tends to do that.

Those folks are disgusting should have been banned, but that also applies to Chrissy.

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Yeah I actually was trying to find news coverage about how awful she had been on Twitter when we were talking about her on here a few weeks ago, and I couldn't find anything, so I didn't post about it. And I kept thinking "But she's been a bully--I remember she was!" Then the Stodden stuff resurfaced, but it isn't the only bullying she did online. 

It doesn't excuse the bullying she herself was subjected to, but it surprises me that all the coverage about it just seemed to disappear. 

Yes. One thing that disturbs me is she has a pattern of going after kids. I saw she apologized to Courtney. Has she apologized to the 9-year-old she called a c**t yet?

Edited by RealHousewife
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48 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Other outlets like TMZ (and other sources that were posted on Twitter) that at least the Target and their parent company Macy’s decision to phase it out was made in December and had already started happening pre Courtney’s interview because Chrissy no longer wanted to be exclusive because she was making more money from other sources. But that interferes with Candace Owen’s narrative that she was personally responsible for these decisions. 

Candace Owens is one of the meanest mean girls on the planet.  Is she really claiming credit for cancelling another mean girl? 

Mind you, it's already a weird situation since Courtney Stodden was legitimately pretty gross (I think regardless of her age at the time that was kind of true).  Just not deserving (because nobody is) of being told to go die/kill herself. 

But honestly. Who's going to Candace Owens for guidance on morality? 

Edited by Kromm
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1 minute ago, Kromm said:

Candace Owens is one of the meanest mean girls on the planet.  Is she really claiming credit for cancelling another mean girl? 

 

Yes.

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On 5/17/2021 at 9:13 PM, Kromm said:

Google just told me he's now dating that girl from Bridgerton. Somehow meeting her in the middle of a Pandemic. And somewhere in there, Cindy Crawford's daughter (who a picture shows is pretty much a younger doppelganger of her Supermodel mother). So along with Ariana, I guess we can conclude he's definitely got game. 

 

Or an agent who finds attractive young women for him to be in a phony relationship with. Or vice versa.

All this talk about SNL made me think about the years when it was actually funny. Those days are long gone.

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SilverStormm

Please do not post only links to celebrity news stories, some context should be provided for your fellow members. Context may be as simple as a quote from an article. Thanks. 

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